Sure you are. That's why we call you Special T. Just be glad your name wasn't Krabitha because Special K was already taken.
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Sure you are. That's why we call you Special T. Just be glad your name wasn't Krabitha because Special K was already taken.
You're just being kind, ain't ya. T?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trabitha
(we both know it was everything but)
1st, all licenses (any license unless otherwise stated not avail by law) lists in all 50 states are public record and can be had by inquiry and sometimes payment.
I have zero empathy or sympathy for folks that choose to stay where they are and do nothing to solve the issues where they live concerning gun ownership laws. If they are a gun owner and choose to stay (sell the house and get a job in another state in the next 3-4 years is reasonable), I cannot cry for them. IL, has been a gun hate state for the 53 years I have been alive, no surprise or sudden awareness about that, as well as CA, MA and NY. If someone moves there knowingly and gets mad about the gun laws, well, then they should have made a stand before moving there. It should have been a concern to them, the fact that they over-looked the laws that affect them is their fault, not us out in the free- state world.
In all of my gun auctions I place a statement at the bottom "No sales to IL, MA, NY and CA," I have had hate mail, threats and even 2 law suits against me for it (they lost both) and such from residents of those states because I refuse to sell to them. To me, it does not matter if it is a gun, ammo or even a gun related item, I refuse to sell to folks that are in those states. I would say 80% of the ads on gunbroker for "GUNS" state no sales to CA even if the gun is legal to own in CA. Yes, some ads state OK to sell to CA, those are usually the big box gun stores.
There is a reason for this, I personally do not want to contribute to the commerace of those states that have laws in place to take away or limit 2nd amendment rights. If I sell to a resident in those states, then I must send the gun to a licensed 001 FFL or 03 FFL gun dealer/collector in that state, that dealer then gets paid for his/her services and I refuse to contribute to it.
If their feelings are hurt, too bad, they do not need a gun anyways, their state and local gov't will protect them (smirks).
In any event, until the laws affect me personally, I am not going to worry about them. They live where they live, free will and all, they do not need to come crying to people in a free state
because their state took away their rights or abuse their rights via selling lists.
If they do not want their name sent out on a list, then do not get on the list in the first place.
*takes a hammer to the soap box, splits the wood for my next fire and saves the nails to make small pound out knives from........
You mention you won't sell to those four states. Years ago when I got a ffl the atf called me for a telephone interview. In a nut shell they asked me what I would do if a person had the 4473 filled out correctly but I didn't feel right about selling them a firearm. I told them that if that was the case I wouldn't sell them the firearm. They said that it was my right not to sell a gun to anybody for any reason. Don't know if that's still the way it is.
Well, I sort of agree with you, Mike and sort of don't. When I was a kid up until about 19 or 20 I don't recall anyone complaining about how guns were handled in Illinois. We had to register and show our card to purchase a weapon and buy ammo. The former I have no experience with because I never actually bought a weapon in Illinois prior to 20. Everything I hunted with was something nobody else wanted. Junk guns were all I knew from about 9 or 10 on. But I sure bought a lot of ammo. And by way of definition a box of anything was a lot of ammo to me back them. I have gone through hunting coats and found a couple of forgotten 12 gauge shells and thought I was rich! But I digress. Well, actually, I always digress but......
That's just how it was back then. I don't remember any uncles or my brother of any of my buddies complaining about Illinois being a gun hating state. Dad never picked up a weapon after WWII so he didn't much care one way or the other. We focused our hatred on Cook County back then and they pretty much still do.
@ OGL
Who's crying for chrissake?
Seems to me that the people who are kvetching the most (with the biggest boulder on their shoulder, I might add) are people who live OUTside those states.
I suppose gloating is just not enough any more, some people need the fix of rubbing it in.
Randy, I know for a fact they tell that to dealers, sadly when a dealer gets sued for a non sale, BATFE is off in the Ozarks somewhere and the dealer is left holding the bag. Unless I as a dealer have some evidence that a non sale should take place, the sale must go through. If I have an issue, I can then call BATFE or my local LEO as well as my Atty. and let them know a nut job got a gun.
Benesse, trust me, they whine when I have a gun for sale they really want and I refuse or reject their bids. I have the emails and snail mails to prove it. In context to the posts here, people telling people that they are not realistic for telling people to MOVE. I would think it would mean, MOVE with in reason, not tomorrow.
Rick, the FTF (face to face) (hand me downs) sales have never really been affected, it is intrastate and interstate sales through dealers to residents that are affected. Like CA trying to tell ME in Ohio how I will list my gun sale in MY books to a resident in CA......just not going to happen (C&R sales mostly) or the gun MUST comply with "Bullet Button" magazine release, magazine capacity, pistol grip yada yada yada.....go over to calguns.net and read with reckless abandon all the whinning there, I read it just for pleasure and enjoyment. I just find it easier to just not sell to those states that try to strong arm me. The guns I have for sale, sell regardless of not selling to those states anyways, especially now with the frenzy that is going on.
Believe it or not OGL, gun laws are not the only consideration of where most people choose to live or move to. There's that other inconvenient thing called...making a living. If the choice is between being gainfully employed and owning just one gun or unemployed and sitting on an arsenal big enough to outfit a small army, the decision is not a hard one for me. I stand by it and don't begrudge those who choose to float their boat elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioGrizzLapp
A newspaper reporter in MA with a gun vendetta tried that stunt several years ago, threatening to list the names of legal gun owners with licenses in the State of MA. A law was very quickly passed forbidding such. Believe it or not. We also have a VERY active organization called GOAL that monitors all firearms legislation up for vote. And still trying to get a better more understandable gun law passed. It's been filed and has a number. One can hope. There is also a new organization here just started up that sounds like they want to start challenging legality of some of the laws we do have.
Ohiogriz, if you sell to someone in the state of MA I'm guessing you would probably have to transfer to an FFL here for them to get the gun. Especially if it's a handgun. Long guns and 'antique' guns are weird in how the law is written and Black Rifles are haphazard. Even Smith&Wesson, who manufactures guns here in MA has two glass cases in their showroom with big bold signs on them NOT FOR SALE TO RESIDENTS OF MA, CT, NY.
For Handguns, we have two lists and if the handgun is not on both lists, it doesn't get in the state through an FFL transfer. The list gets 'updated' twice a year.
I can't buy ammo from several bulk sellers. They don't sell to the Frightening Four even though there is no law against mail-order ammo sales in MA. The law is not clear enough though for many to take the risk. Same for the gun manufacturers. They call and ask if their gun model is approved in MA and the answer they get from the AG's office is, "ask your lawyer". Needless to say we can't get some of the best models here, including some of the top match-quality pistols or new Glocks. I can't get a new Colt 1911 here. Can only buy a used one that was registered in the state "pre-ban". Our police officers can purchase Glocks though, but I believe they need a form from their Chief in order for the FFL to sell it to them.
As for moving, I love this area and my work is here. There aren't too many places in the country that do what we do (fewer now as several closed within the last two years and those that are left are in NY, IL, MD and CA...). I doubt with bosses as fair-minded as I have now. In life you make trade-offs. And I still have some hope for the future of this state in all things, not just gun laws.
LOL!! That was an amazingly thought out post! Gotta love ya, Crash! LOL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
LOL! My Momma always said if you can't say something nice...try to be as nice as possible. LOL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
Agreed. Work is not always easy to come by. Speaking from experience, when we up and moved to AZ, than GOD we had family because it took nearly a year to get work and that was in 2001! Imagine how hard it would be now. Not to mention selling a house. The market is so saturated with homes, you're lucky to sell in a short period of time. Then you have to take into account the moving costs which are CRAZY high and in todays world companies won't hire a NEW hire that requires relocation, cost of a new home/apartment which would require down payments...and the possibility of not having a job when you move.Quote:
Originally Posted by BENESSE
It's not remotely as easy as some people would like to imply if you have a career an family to take into account.
Lowkey, yes, through an 01 FFL for modern guns and 03 FFL C&R for others, no assault guns at all, at one time, MA considered Assualt Rifle as a more than 5 shot lever action (that was quickly fixed).....that is why I just do not sell to MA, CA, NY & IL residents at all, even through transfer via FFL's, not even BB guns, just do not want or need the hassel of a state other than my own telling me how or what I can sell and to whom.
State of Ohio produces a list each June of CCW Permit holders by County, FFL (Gun selling license) holders by City/County/zip. Most folks that know me or know of me, know I have guns, am a gun seller/trader and that I have a CCW so I do not care about the lists. When I get anti gun mailings, I just toss it in the paper firelog making box...and then tip my hat to them for the free fire making material. I have been known to wipe my arse with Brady Foundation material.
I dunno... I see Ohio listed right along with MA, NY, IL, D.C. and CA in catalogs like Cabelas and Sportsmans Guide - when it comes to sales of ammo anyway. Was just flipping through a Cabelas this morning over breakfast.
As an FFL I'd say it should be up to you to decide who you sell to via online transactions. No argument there. Most of the shops in this state will dictate what they will and will not sell. Technically a gun doesn't have to be on both lists, but the fine for selling a 'non-approved' handgun is so steep, and the definition of 'approved' is so weasely with no answers from the AG or the EOPS, the FFLs just say no. And I can respect that too. I don't like it because of the reason for it. But I can respect it.
Lowkey, yep, for ammo, that is why I have the 03FFL, I BUY ammo for C&R guns and have it delivered to my home, otherwise, reg folk cannot get ammo sent to them here in Ohio. Then I buy all other ammo for the gun shop and then sell myself some as I need it. I have found legal ways around most of the minor Ohio laws laws, so guns, ammo and STUFF stream in and out of both the residence and the shop.
Trabitha, seriously, of the times I used to move, finding work was the least of my worries. I was a quality assurance engineer with design and ISO9001 experience, there were very few places of the country, even today that does not have work open at very decent wages. I did move a lot because you go into a company, fix their ill's and then have to move on to the next company. At the time, I enjoyed the moving all over. Today, I would not and if I settled somewhere else, I would have to first consider the gun laws where the drop point would be.
Now that I have scaled back my professional employment to things I can do anywhere and anytime, I am only limited to a states or cities laws on various aspects of life, so those I check first and foremost. At this point in my life, owning guns, ammo and their accessories is a very important aspect of MY life.
Today, I do not even vacation at places unless I check the gun laws of where I am going first, much less move to those places.
You are right though, I do not have family, kids and ties to much of anything to worry about. I own property in a few states, but I can pick up and leave those at a moments notice. My daughter is grown and has her own house, no wife or small kids to worry about. GF said she will go where I go, she is a special ed teacher, so she too can dang near get a job anywhere.
So, yeah, I check gun laws first, taxes second and third, the availability of open land (parks and recreation areas). The money I make on rustic furniture, hiking sticks, floral greens, gun shop....I can do just about anywhere, where the laws allow it, so I check the laws first.
Ohio, you are blessed to have many options for your carrier. Not everyone has that option. That's my point. My husbands experience, lands him in a situation where the job market is saturated with qualified workers. While he is amazingly qualified for any position he wants, the companies simply aren't paying for that. They would rather take an employee who can DO the job, and accept a lower pay wage. Just dropping everything and moving into a new job isn't something that's financially sound to do unless you're willing to start all over at ground level pay. Sadly that's the situation we are currently in. If we're lucky to get promotions from within the company we can move. Unfortunately that then leaves us in a situation where we need to sell our home...and the darn homes out here aren't moving. Those that DO sell, sell really low. That hurts. You end up taking a loss and the pay raise doesn't mean squat. :( That really stinks.
Just saying...you've gotten yourself in a very good position to go where you want when you want. But we're only in our 30's and we've not had the opportunity to do that...and we have to take schools into account. There are a lot of us in this age group that are dealing with the same issue, and we're all over the country.
I think another point to be made is that I live in a predominately Democrat community. I live here because I really have no choice. The schools are the best in the area, and the crime rate isn't as bad as those in the surrounding areas. I had to make the best decision I could for my son to give him the best chances as I could in school and life. Keeping that in mind, I'm consistently out-voted during election years. That doesn't mean I'm not trying to change things. It means I'm out voted. You compound all the other issues with picking up and moving...and you're stuck accepting the laws that pass. This doesn't make it MY fault. It's simply the way the system works.
I just find it ridiculous to blame the residents that don't want this type of law, as though they don't vote or try to get people to see their side of the isle. We're not all lucky enough to live among like minded individuals and it would be VERY financially irresponsible for me to simply pick up and move because I feel like it.
That's all I'm saying... ;)
Some of us are in the best place for what we do and in no position to pick and choose or ditch it all in exchange for a CCW, or whatever you think is more worthy than what we presently have.
Quite honestly, I am more apprehensive about this condemnation of each other, than any other disaster that might befall us.
or...if you can't say something nice, come sit by me.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Trabitha
When I had the opportunity to leave Illinois I fairly jumped at the chance. Not because of the gun laws but because it was a better opportunity for me, for my wife and for our kids. I accepted a promotion to come to Indiana but all three improvements played a huge part in the decision.
We have a consensis then;
We have people that live in oppressive states and want to sit there, draw their money and whine about the laws.
Then we have the rest of us who are supposed to listen to them, keep our mouths shut or say "Poor thing", while being called backward, condemning or otherwise defective for not putting up with that $#%* in our own lives.
Guess I have that figured out now.
Buy the way, since this is in the guns section. I bought a new rifle today. Showed my DL and CCW, proving my law abiding status, and walked out the door.
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