EMP could cause a nuclear melt-down.......OUCH

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Originally Posted by kyratshooter

You guys are detirmined to be terrified of something you can not do a single thing to control, even if it does not exist!

Facts are ignored for the endorphine rush from anticipation, dread, superstition and alarm. This is an addiction!

What do you want to hear?

That you can save your computer from surge for use on a dead internet, hooked to a nationwide cable net that has evaporated?

That you can save your vehicle, for use on roads jamed with dead cars?

That you can wrap yourself in tin foil so your pacemaker will not blow up in your cheast?

That you can still have electricity from your protected generator so you can run your AC while the rest of the world disolves?

That EMP can flow like water, filling any space available, going around corners and searching out the unsuspecting like those thingies from War of the Worlds?

I have news for you guys. You know more people that have died of cancer from standing in front of the microwave while they popped corn than will ever be affected by EMP frying their wires.

Have you considered that if directed EMP was capable of doing 1/4 of what is credited on the internet the military would be using it to fry the wiring in IEDs and F15s would be using it to knock out radar guidence systems.

So far, the only thing that will produce even a modest, usable and dangerous EMP pulse is a nuke. Even then it is of limited range and power and does not effect everything once you ar outside the nuke blast radius. Iran is not going to explode EMP bombs at stragic locations. Not without the accompanying mushroom cloud.

There is no such thing as an EMP bomb in our present technology!

With out present technology you will not get EMP without nuke blast. That puts EMP way down the list of worries.

On the Kenai Pennisula your worries are between none and zero.
In Oakland you are in more danger going to the 7/11 at noon.

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Ten years ago, if I told you that "nineteen lunatics with nothing more than box cutters would turn 4 commercial airliners into guided missiles, take down 2 skyscrapers and murder over 3,000 Americans in three states" you would have written the same thing.

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Originally Posted by TucsonMax

Ten years ago, if I told you that "nineteen lunatics with nothing more than box cutters would turn 4 commercial airliners into guided missiles, take down 2 skyscrapers and murder over 3,000 Americans in three states" you would have written the same thing.

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No. Because that action is a possiblility, always has been and still is today.

The possible is possible, the impossible is not possible.

:hammer:

If the police tell me there is a planned terrorist attack somewhere in town tomorrow I am staying away from the shopping malls.

If some goofball reports on the internet that aliens are landing tomorrow I am still going to clean out the store room tomorrow morning like I had planned.

kyratshooter, actually we have had EMP bombs for some time. Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc...etc. has them. Watch the show EMP Electronic Armageddon for some info about the topic. You can also wiki or google who has EMP bombs.
These are NON-Nuclear EMP bombs. The United States has over a Dozen different types, even one that sends out a high frequency that will destroy electronics inside a Faraday cage. Wiki or google it. EMP bombs that are Non-nuclear do exist and have for years.

How a non-nuclear EMP bomb works.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/e-bomb3.htm

A must watch.
EMP Electronic Armageddon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KVeM...eature=related

So the Terrorists that flew planes into the twin towers had all sorts of connections, money and resources to pull off a job without the NSA hearing about it through Echelon. But yet, do you think the terrorists can get a hold of am EMP bomb? Of course. Now that we have 3 different Arab countries, North Korea and others pissed off at us, should we expect anything of the sort ot happen? Never hurts to prepare.

So your sources are Wiki, U-tube and various blogspots? Is that not the point I just brought up?

I see that the words "It is likely", "there is speculation" and "reporters suspect" dominate these reports, even the one from the Discovery channel (apparently they took some time off from Bear Grilis and the Colony).

They have been around since the 1950s and no one has yet brought one out and said "Here's what we got!"? They never installed a network of them to knock out Soviet bombers or missiles? We worried about a flood of Soviet tanks sweeping through Europe for the entire cold war and they never developed these elementary devices to knock out their engines and communications?

According to the diagrams shown (I also commented on those earlier), I shold be able to make one from a shke up flashlight. This is much easier than creating an atomic device and should have been the device that ended WW2. The various terrorists organizations should have had dozens in the in the field since the '90s and eveyone should have been returned to the stone age before 911.

If you take your TV out of the Farady Cage you can catch some pretty good shows on History International on Friday night to compliment the discovery Channel reports. You can catch the latest episode of Alien Hunters as you prepare for the annual Big Foot expidition.

I'll bet we stole this technology from the same aliens that gave us Sharpie Markers and digital watches!

BUT

The origional question still stands, if they do have these devices what are you going to do about it? They have the ability to take their foot and kick your head completely off, and there is not a single thing you can do about it.

And if they are developing units that can penetrate Faraday Cages what am I supposed to do with all this tinfoil? A device that no one has ever seen, has never been used and no one knows the capabilities of, but it is certain it can defeat whatever protective measure you have taken!

This pursuit of the EMP is manifestation of a psychological need to create a problem for which there is no solution in order to feed the depression and keep the adriniline pumping and cycle onto the manic side. A Y2K with no end date. Survivalist Nervana.

Here's a map of operating reactors.

Differing opinions is cool, but lets watch the personal attacks.

I apologize for any insult and will back out of this thread.

KY, I just don't understand the intensity of your denial. Most of the people here have an open mind on the subjects that are discussed. Those of us who, with the information vailable think it is possible and yet you have not given any data to prove otherwise. There are a lot of things in the universe we can't prove exist but at the same time we can't prove they don't exist. Until there is proof one way or the other, i'll keep my mind open.

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Originally Posted by SARKY

The grid will be down, not because the reactors shut down but because all the transformers will fry. And if I remember correctly, there are only 2 companies that produce transformers at a rate of 2 per year per facility. Think about how many transformers there are in just the US and how long it would take to replace them.

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You've posted this a few times now. It isnt true..We get out transformers from Howard industries, Carte, and pauwels. I dont know who we use currently for our stations class stuff but I just named 3 companies that make them and I am sure there are more, we just dont buy from them.

I should just save this so I can cut and paste when this comes up.....

The power company that I work for ordered (and received) a few mobile units a few years ago. We werent told that we could only get two a year and the rest of the country would have to go without.

I dont know if an EMP bomb can or will do huge damage or not but I doubt very much it will cripple the grid. The systems that provide power are well grounded. Look carefully at the high lines (transmission lines) the next time you are out. On the tops of the structures, there is a wire attached to the poles or towers. It isnt on insulators, it is bonded directly to the structure. It is also attached at nearly every structure to a ground wire and to a ground rod. It serves as a grounding shield to the conductors. If there is lightning, or any other electric source looking for a path to ground it will follow this wire and not the conductors.

Next, all stations transformer are protected both on the high side and the load side. They are fused with "K" fuses. These fuses are designed to blow instantly when there is a overage of current flow through them. A station transformer is fused at 125% of it's output which is well within its safe range. The only ones I have ever seen go bad were ones that were overloaded and allowed to run to hot for a very long period of time.

Lastly, these transformers are located inside a substation. Stations are a huge steel cage tied everywhere to ground. This is exactly what a feraday cage is and it is probably the best grounded one around.

We work plenty of lightning storms in the summer months, I doubt these EMP bombs can generate that amount of electricity but the system doesnt get destroyed in these storms. It might wreck a few distribution transformers (usually the last ones the line) and break a few dead end insulators but we can usually keep up with it just by working through the night.

The only thing I would add to Camp's post is that above most of those substations is a wire "weaved" (for lack of a better term) above the sub. It's a lightening net to prevent lightening from entering the substation. Most of the ones around here are on 110 foot poles. Either that or they have lightening rods in place to do the same thing.

Here's a good pic showing both. If you look closely at the very top of the poles you'll see wiring stretching over the top of the sub. Those are to protect against lightening as are the vertical rods at the top of the poles.

http://www.energy.siemens.com/hq/poo...-to-back-b.jpg

Whether it's a threat or not, I have a lot more pressing things to worry about than something that may or may not happen. This is sort of in the category of asteroid for me. I know a winter storm, thunderstorm and tornadoes will happen. Those are just a a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Camp10

You've posted this a few times now. It isnt true..We get out transformers from Howard industries, Carte, and pauwels. I dont know who we use currently for our stations class stuff but I just named 3 companies that make them and I am sure there are more, we just dont buy from them.

I should just save this so I can cut and paste when this comes up.....

The power company that I work for ordered (and received) a few mobile units a few years ago. We werent told that we could only get two a year and the rest of the country would have to go without.

I dont know if an EMP bomb can or will do huge damage or not but I doubt very much it will cripple the grid. The systems that provide power are well grounded. Look carefully at the high lines (transmission lines) the next time you are out. On the tops of the structures, there is a wire attached to the poles or towers. It isnt on insulators, it is bonded directly to the structure. It is also attached at nearly every structure to a ground wire and to a ground rod. It serves as a grounding shield to the conductors. If there is lightning, or any other electric source looking for a path to ground it will follow this wire and not the conductors.

Next, all stations transformer are protected both on the high side and the load side. They are fused with "K" fuses. These fuses are designed to blow instantly when there is a overage of current flow through them. A station transformer is fused at 125% of it's output which is well within its safe range. The only ones I have ever seen go bad were ones that were overloaded and allowed to run to hot for a very long period of time.

Lastly, these transformers are located inside a substation. Stations are a huge steel cage tied everywhere to ground. This is exactly what a feraday cage is and it is probably the best grounded one around.

We work plenty of lightning storms in the summer months, I doubt these EMP bombs can generate that amount of electricity but the system doesnt get destroyed in these storms. It might wreck a few distribution transformers (usually the last ones the line) and break a few dead end insulators but we can usually keep up with it just by working through the night.

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Posted once! EMP has been described as a lightning strike on steroids. It's speed along transmission lines is considerablly faster than a lightning strike. Will it disrupt the system? I don't know for sure, but the whole idea of running scenarios is to think outside the box and prepare .

Actually, EMP can't travel faster than lightening since both are comprised of electricity. And....electricity actually travels pretty slow...about 2mm per day. Since the electrons are already in the wire they are just being pushed and the distance they physically travel is pretty small. However, that push ripples along at the speed of light, ideally, but that's dependant on the medium its being transmitted through.

The EMF (electromotive force) or voltage is the thing that does the nasty stuff. A lightening strike can rate 100 million volts. If you think about it, it has to be that high because it has to have enough energy (voltage) to overcome the resistance of insulating air.

Will an EMP (Electromagnetic pulse) be higher than that? Who knows. Depends on the size of the yield, I guess. Will it have an impact? Probably. We've seen failures from solar flares. The good news is we learned lessons from those outages and corrections have been made. The other thing that has to be considered is the type of soil the substation/transformers are on. The blackout in Canada was disruptive because they sit on a granite shield called the Laurentian Plateau. Hard for electricity to be absorbed into that.

That's not the case in most of the U.S. but where you live in relation to the exposure will have an affect not just because of distance but because of the earth's ability to absorb the electrical charge.

How many do you want ? http://www.powertransformer.us/polem...ansformers.htm


http://www.temcotransformer.com/poletransformer.html

http://www.globalsources.com/manufac...ansformer.html

You beat me to it Rick. Nice post.

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Originally Posted by Justin Case

How many do you want ? http://www.powertransformer.us/polem...ansformers.htm


http://www.temcotransformer.com/poletransformer.html

http://www.globalsources.com/manufac...ansformer.html

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Those you listed are surely easy to come by, they make many a year. However the large ones inside the Hoover Dam and other Power plants that provide power have much larger transformers that like the ones in the Hoover Dam are only made overseas and it takes 18 months to get just one of them.

If you don't know what I mean, watch the video I listed (scroll up to my previous posts) and there is a link to watch called EMP * Armageddon.
The very large transformer in the video is the one that is the one others also were referring to. But even so, to replace every single one of the little transformers would take an extremely long time.

Just helping solve the issue..

So in essence of any large EMP from the Sun or otherwise, which would be more likely the sun which scientists are scrambling about trying to figure out when exactly the big blast from the sun may come, would be something to just keep in mind and prepare for. Extra candles are EMP proof, but if you have only electric heat and it happens in winter, some extra preparedness helps make life a whole lot easier.

Nobody knows if anything will happen, but we all like to just have a few things on hand and just be prepared "just in case". Haiti, New Zealand, China, and throughout history people just lived for the moment and by the moment, those who took the time and effort to prepare were living comfortably while the others suffered and sometimes at a great cost.

I am one to say, it may or may not happen, but we cannot just expect nothing to happen though. It just may be an earthquake that takes out all the electricity across half the nation. Hoover Dam might break apart, any other power plant may be damaged so badly it will take a months or a year to repair. So, same with an EMP. If we prepare for it, we will be that much more ahead in life. We cannot predict the future, but we can prepare for it.

AE makes some very good points. How many of planned and/or prepped for Y2K? Only to have it be a fizzle! But we did it and learned from it. I can tell you right now, if the SF Bay area loses power for a week or more there will be riots an civil unrest. These people are soft and angry. Also the gangs will go wild.

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