Are these things going on elsewhere?

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

Here's what else is a real problem:
Too much traffic on the streets, all sorts of wheeled contraptions on the pavement interfering with pedestrians--bicycles, electric and push scooters, skate boards, in line skates and baby strollers.
Wilderness trails are the last refuge left to those who wish to enjoy some piece and quiet and commune with nature while getting around on their own two legs? I thought you of all people AS, would support that.
Is all this talk about getting back to basics and the way things used to be just jive?

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People are the problem. I hate the weekend warriors that bring their 4 wheeler to the widerness to drive around in circles for fun. They are tools for me. Most times I hike in and out but when I have a load its another story. The biggest problem I see with ATV's are the yahoes that cart cases of beer deep into the woods and leave their garbage out there. Blaming an inadiment object for what the person does with it is misplaced. Too many people and not enough for everybody has always been the problem. It is that simple and going to get worse. Getting back to basics is not my first choice. It is a survival strategy. There are not enough resources for all to do that either. I was raised in a wilderness setting so communing with nature for me does not inspire the same sense of awe in me. Going to Las Vegas blows me away! You get used to seeing trees, mountains, glaciers and wild life. It's no big deal for me.

AS - I agree with you but for a different reason. If 1000 people came out there and spent their time and left leaving only footprints it would be another matter. I'm pretty certain where I travel sees a whole lot more folks than what you have to content with. There are places I go that folks understand what nature is about and even though a lot of folks have been through there all you see are their footprints. There are other places I go that I end up carting out as much trash as my pack will hold.

Those folks are the problem. All it takes is one person to toss a beer bottle in the water or leave their crap dumped in a fire pit and it looks like 1000 people were there.

Well OK AS, I'll concede--people are the problem ultimately. I guess without them, all those ATVs would just sit quietly abandoned and therefore wouldn't interfere in my peaceful hikes.

I knew we didn't disagree. :)

I didn't think we were talking about ATVs as tools. They are that. They can be downright handy sometimes. I thought it was about taking these machines on a 'nature trail'.
It's when the tools ride the ATVs......

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Originally Posted by Rick

No thanks. That's just more of the same stuff mankind has been dealing with since day 1. People starve to death today. They always have. Does population play into that? Only in terms of numbers. If a crop failed in 910, 60 people died. If a crop fails today 600 die or 6000 or 60,000 (depending on how large the crop is).

The truth is, we are not any different than any other animal or plant on the planet. Our sole purpose for being here is to replicate the specie. That, of course, is at our biological core. We're pretty successful at it but there are a lot of life forms more successful than us. Mosquitoes, flies and just about any other insect beats us hands down. Rabbits are pretty good at multiplying, too. I'm not sure about their other math skills.

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We all have different reasons for being interested in wilderness survival. It is a good excuse to buy more Coleman lanterns, is it not? The reasons don't have to be valid for others just yourself. I believe the purpose of life is to develop your soul. I stand with those that would like to see more survival related posts. I have no more interest in other peoples politics or religion than they have in mine. It should be our common interest in wilderness survival that joins us to this forum not human compassion or any other philosphy you subscribe to. You are the adminstrator with the authority to steer the conversation. Wilderness survival might be of interest?

I seem to be in a bad mood today. I need to step away from this infernal machine and do some things outside in the real world.

Wow. Not sure where that came from.

We have areas where there are different rules for different things down here. Big Cypress was supposed to be open to ORV use. They now restrict it but use is fair.

Where I went last weekend, I can't ride my quad. But, you can run a street legal vehicle off road or a UTV or swamp buggy. I don't know how prolific swamp buggies are where your from. But, down here they are probably the most predominant ride in the woods.

But, you can run a hopped up $100,000.00 buggie. But, I can't run my quad?

There is spots where buggies are needed. Here is one of my favorite places. With a very small buggy. With a quad your going to float through.

The blue trail at Bear Island will leave your arse for weeks if you mess up. LOL

Had a friend that was stuck for two weeks on the trail in his jacked up Samaria. He finally got drug out by two buggies chained together. It took him two weeks to get out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbO19A3ojwI

OK. I don't live in CA so you can relax, and hear me out. Almost...'cause I live in NYC. This here is the torture test of Western humanity for all the reasons you know, and a few you don't. We get it from all sides but we continue to live here the way mountain goats live on cliffs and bring up their young.
It's a tough place to maintain your sanity in, unless you can get away once in a while and get in touch with God's creation. Just you and nature. Nothing to remind you that it's the 21st century...for all you know it could be the 12th. Time stands still in nature and it helps you connect to something greater than yourself. Sort of like a house of worship.
And just like we wouldn't play loud music, litter, or bring a six pack into a church, why would we want to do the equivalent in nature? Can't we all just respect and protect the one place that transcends time, race, religion and politics and leave it be for all of us to enjoy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

OK. I don't live in CA so you can relax, and hear me out. Almost...'cause I live in NYC. This here is the torture test of Western humanity for all the reasons you know, and a few you don't. We get it from all sides but we continue to live here the way mountain goats live on cliffs and bring up their young.
It's a tough place to maintain your sanity in, unless you can get away once in a while and get in touch with God's creation. Just you and nature. Nothing to remind you that it's the 21st century...for all you know it could be the 12th. Time stands still in nature and it helps you connect to something greater than yourself. Sort of like a house of worship.
And just like we wouldn't play loud music, litter, or bring a six pack into a church, why would we want to do the equivalent in nature? Can't we all just respect and protect the one place that transcends time, race, religion and politics and leave it be for all of us to enjoy?

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Just came back from a walk in the woods to do just that. Agree with all that you said with one exception. Music can be uplifting or relaxing wherever you are. It is nice to leave the world behind.

listening to music you can enjoy in a comfortable setting; yes. listening to the musical choices of others whether you like it or not; hit and miss. :D

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Originally Posted by Alaskan Survivalist

Just came back from a walk in the woods to do just that. Agree with all that you said with one exception. Music can be uplifting or relaxing wherever you are. It is nice to leave the world behind.

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Absolutely. But it's subjective. Someone loves rap, I detest it. I love Mozart, others might hate him.
Nature though, transcends the subjective. It is what it is. It has been there way before any of us, and if we're lucky, it will continue to be there long after we're gone.
Nature raise above everything that divides us. It's a safe, neutral place and if we can only keep it that way we'll always have a refuge--a soft place to fall when we need it most.

i listen to a fair selection of music my lady can't stand, so i have no choice but to keep it to myself :D

still, every now and then i have to blast something obnoxious just to keep her from falling into complacency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BENESSE

Someone loves rap, I detest it. I love Mozart, others might hate him.

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There are two things we have in common. :clap::clap:

Don't forget skiing in Utah, FM!

What kind of art is Mozart?

It's native from Mozambique.

That's why I show up here. You learn something every day!

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