Survivorman/Man vs. Wild.

The following are quotes from earlier in this thread.

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post #445 of this thread It is good that the two shows have encouraged some folk to learn about survival. However. There are to many time on those programs where the techniques they use could kill you as apposed to saving you. Don't forget Bear is an accomplished mountaineer/climber. Trying to do some of his stunts without his skill is worse then a bad idea. For example, venturing into a glacial ice cave, climbing a waterfall or as Les did placing his camp on a river sandbar when its raining in the mountains above him. I would suggest viewing the programs as entertainment only and investing in some real world practical survival training.

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post #448 of this thread I would also add, not only is Bear an accomplished mountaineer/climber, but he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, and passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a great accomplishment). BUT the show is dangerous!

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TR, LISTEN to what is being said. When I first joined, I got "bit" with my first post by Sarge. I licked my wounds, and am still here.
All the members here are open and willing to help anyone learn, provided we are willing to be taught.
Just some survival food for thought.:cool:

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Originally Posted by TrapperRick

I'm going to email Les Stroud and tell him not only can he have sex with my daughter, I'm also including him in my will.

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Um, just for the benefit of the unattached younger gentlemen in this forum, how often do you.....no, never mind that would just be rude...

Trapper Rick - I don't think you offended anybody's feelings. BTW I have a few heroes in my life, and I can assure you that neither Les nor Bear are one of them. Here's the issue I have with Bear....1st, in another thread it was Klkad that noted he is SAS trained, an mountain climber, and competent athlete - nobody would deny any of that. Somebody watching the show that does not have the same skill sets that he has, but tries to emulate what they see are going to either hurt themselves or worse. Can valuable infromation be picked up from his show? I believe it can be. Since some of the exposure of what really takes place on the show, he now adds disclaimers. One time when he didn't - and was shooting a rapid sans kyak you can clearly see the outline of a life preserver under his shirt (youtube video). Now neglecting to let an inexperienced viewer in on that little trick could cost them their life. Here's what some from the other side of the pond think of him. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d--hotels.html

No body on this forum hates Bear or Les! we dislike them passing on bad or dangerous information. In turn, We caution folks to view them as entertainment only. There is possibly hundreds of years of survival experience on this forum. The majority of experienced people on here agree a great deal of the things that Bear does on his show and to a lesser extent Les on his show, are either down right dangerous, careless or impractical.

The first thing you have to do is put all of this into perspective.

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot...47_farting.gif

Done! No one has a bulls eye on them unless you hang it there yourself. As far an entertainment value it's fine. If you want to learn survival skills, you can learn some good ones from either one. You can also pick up some very dangerous ones. More from Bear, I'm afraid that from Les. Either way, I wouldn't put all my trust in either one. Hang on.

http://www.clipartof.com/images/emot...47_farting.gif

There! All better.

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Originally Posted by TrapperRick

I was unaware that if you have a dissenting opinion of some on this board, people's fangs come out.

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TR it has nothing to do with dissenting opinions, we have kids on this board that are members and are only 12 years of age. I don't want to be responsible for one of them getting sick or hurt or worse, because of what the adults here say. I don't idolize either of them. I was the one who posted:
"I would also add, not only is Bear an accomplished mountaineer/climber, but he was in the British Special Forces (for 3 years), he's in outstanding physical condition, and passed the training tests for the French Foreign Legion (which is a great accomplishment). BUT the show is dangerous!"

I'm sure your aware of kids imitating (at 10-16 years old) the WW- and have gotten severely hurt. They look up to us for answers here about wilderness survival. We even look to each other for new ideas, or answers to things we don't know. That's it.... Nothing to do with dissenting opinions.

Unless of course you disagree then it's all about dissenting opinions again, but overall, I'd say that Gray Wolf guy sure does put some serious thoughts into his posts and the posts are always well composed. I'd probably vote for him for moderator (gotta balance out Crash's ego here) In fact I might befriend both those dudes ifn' they weren't durned Americans......(oh Whoops! We're already friends :eek:)

I think Trax should be a moderator. Oops, strike that. He can't be a moderator he's the Emperor or something already.

Judging from TR's avatar change, I'd say he may not want to play anymore.

Sign language is my guess. :D

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Judging from TR's avatar change, I'd say he may not want to play anymore.

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Or he's flirting with someone. Heyyy, the guy said he had a sense of humor, come on now..

How about (or aboot if I wish to translate to my native tongue, Canajun) if I'm just a moderate emporer klkak?

I don't want you to go overboard about Bear or Les. Take them of leave them, but remember, there are certain things no one should do in a survival situation, & drinking urine is one of them. In one of his shows Les did show how to "distill" urine to make it safe to drink, & that's the only way to do it. I like Les cuz he blows a mean harp, mainly. But he also demonstrates certain survival tools, like the Magnesium Block for fire making, so everyone can see how it works. My favorite program with him in it was not "Survivorman", but rather an episode of "I Shouldn't be Alive; the Science of Survival." I DO think that Bear has a cute tush for an SAS guy, however, as does your avatar, is that a "self-portrait"?:D

http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/r...-show-7983.php

I can certainly understand Les Stroud's reasoning. I think he has done an excellent job of getting people to think more about their natural surroundings.

I think his blog mentioned that he working on more "off the grid" projects.

Looking forward to his farewell season, and sad to see it go.

In tonight's episode, Les needs a SAR team rescue, when he gets lost (it's a new one).
Should be interesting, being that he has lots of training. What goes wrong??? :eek:

Sarge47,

Right on! When we find lost subjects they DON"T have a survival pack with them. If they did they would also be smart enough to know navigation, tell somone where they are going etc. Most folks we look for are in trouble because they don't know enough to have good boots, warm clothes, water, PLBs, SPOT beacons, etc.

We also teach survival (not the Tom Brown kind) to med flight crews on how to stay put, stay warm and wait for rescue.

I do think these shows show more of what not to do then what to do. Eating bugs, vegetation, etc., will do more to harm (or not do much to help) you and you spend a lot of needed energy doing it.

A new book out "Lost Person Behavior" by Robert J. Koester, says that 93% of 12,900 world wide searches were located withing 24 hours of being lost. Of 1881 lost subjects that were surveyed only 6% had survival training.

Take care,

Rick-SAR www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

To all members who don't know who Rick-SAR is he's a bona-fide "Search & Rescue" guy who has a lot on his plate, so he doesn't post as much on here as I would like, but I count every post he DOES make a blessing.:cool:

I enjoy his no BS posts and the stats. Glad for his posts also.

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Originally Posted by Dennis K.

Looking forward to his farewell season, and sad to see it go.

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Ditto. Survivorman has been great.

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Originally Posted by Gray Wolf

In tonight's episode, Les needs a SAR team rescue, when he gets lost (it's a new one).
Should be interesting, being that he has lots of training. What goes wrong??? :eek:

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I was a bit disappointed when I saw this, and learned that nothing really went wrong. Les was participating in an excercise with the local SAR team, and got lost on purpose so that they could get some practice looking for him.

I wish he (Les) would show more what to do rather then "hype" the show. Tens of Thousands of kids throughout the US and Canada have been taught the Hug-A-Tree program (I forget what it is call in Canada). It teaches to "hug" a tree (stay put) and other easy survival skills.

When the kids that have seen this program are lost hear or see a aircraft they should lay down and form an X with their arms and lags (spread eagle). NOT WAVE as Les did.

Think about it if you are in a aircraft and looking down someone standing up you only see him from the top down (unless it is early or late in the day where shadows make him/her bigger). Waving is not a good way to signal the searcher. Waving at a helicopter is a signal for danger - don't land etc. There have been cases where a search helicopter has not responded to a subject waving thinking that he was a searcher.

In a major study in AZ some years ago test were done in mountains and deserts of AZ by the Air Force and SAR volunteers from southern AZ. In the test 60% of volunteers were standing and waving were spotted by the aircraft. 81% were spotted "lying spread eagle".

When your search from the air you look for something that is not natural to the terrain. Obviously if you see anything that is X shaped you are going to investigate it. By the way the pilots found more subject then observers.

I saw in the program he was using a gridded signal mirror. I think it would have been much more beneficial to use another type of reflector (compass mirror, knife blade, CD, etc.) Explaining that you hold the reflector close to your eye put your arm out and shine the sun spot on your thumb. Once you see the reflection on your thumb then you put your thumb (keeping the reflection on it) in line with the search aircraft.

Other simple survival tools the kids are taught is to always have a whistle with them when out in the woods - he also could have used it to signal the SAR team.

Rick-SAR
www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

His new project is survivorman kids. There is a web site for it if you google it.

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Originally Posted by Rick-SAR

I saw in the program he was using a gridded signal mirror. I think it would have been much more beneficial to use another type of reflector (compass mirror, knife blade, CD, etc.) Explaining that you hold the reflector close to your eye put your arm out and shine the sun spot on your thumb. Once you see the reflection on your thumb then you put your thumb (keeping the reflection on it) in line with the search aircraft.

Other simple survival tools the kids are taught is to always have a whistle with them when out in the woods - he also could have used it to signal the SAR team.

Rick-SAR
www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

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In September of 2006, I broke my right leg very badly while moose hunting. I won't go into the details again. When the rescue helicopter arrived in the area it was a couple miles away from my location. I had with me as part of my survival gear a device called a "Laser flare" made by Great land lasers. As soon as the light hit the helicopter it turned and came straight to my position. When the crew got to me the pilot asked me what I signaled him with. I showed it to him. He was so impressed with it that he bought one the next day and has had it in his flight suit ever since.

Recently Les Stroud has announced that he will stop making survivorman and is moving on to other things.
He does have a book just out called Survive and I will try to find a copy soon.

I have not heard of the "Laser Flare" I did look it up on Google and see the range (at night) is about 10 miles - looks like a neat device.

There were test done with Army Signal devices in the 1800 that documented a 200 mile range. The test was done from one mountain top to another. However, my point was that "Les" on his show tries to show how to survive with what you have with you. Not many would have a gridded signal mirror, Laser Flare, smoke etc.

I carry a Mark 5 orange smoke flair with me, gridded signal mirror, whistle, etc. your two points are right on:

1. If it's in your kit and you don't know how to use it....It's useless.
2. If you can't reach your kit when you need it....Its useless.

Rick-SAR
www.SearchAndRescueTraining.com

well crap. I did like the show

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Originally Posted by ADEPT

well crap.

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That is how I feel about all T.V. just so much used dog food.

I carry a gridded signal mirror along with pen-flares and the laser-flare. I have discovered that a good deal of the time when signaling needs to be done, the sun is not available. Especially here in Alaska. I change the battery in the laser-flare every 90 days unless I use it then I change them ASAP.

As for the two points in my signature: I believe in them so strongly that I apply them to everything I do.

hey kids we still have a new season to look forward to

this makes me feel sad =(
now I'm stuck with man vs wild...("ok now you just repel down this 200 foot waterfall with a 3/4 inch thick vine")

I too always carry a gridded signal mirror along with pen-flares. It's called being prepared...
They take up such little room in your pack, that there is no reason not to carry them.

klkak, I believe the two points in your signature completely!

Les's new book, Survive!: Essential Skills and Tactics to Get You Out of Anywhere - Alive
$13.57

http://www.amazon.com/Survive-Essent...636829&sr=11-1

Man vs Wild wins in my book. Anyone who says Bear Grylls shows "suicidal behavior" doesn't know what they're saying. Bear is a very experienced climber, having climbed to the sumit of Mt. Everest and many other mountains. Whenever he does anything of the sort on the show, he says to never attempt it in a survival situation unless you're an expert and are aware of the risks involved. Bear delves into almost every aspect of survival, from first aid to finding food, keeping warm to building shelters, and much, much more. He explains how to avoid confrontation with dangerous animals, and in one episode he even talked about how to avoid kidnaping by local guerillas who have been known to do such. There have been episodes in every kind of place. Just to name a fraction of where I've seen him, I would say: Numerous locations in Africa including the Savanna and Namib, the Amazon, the Everglades, Patagonia, Alaska, Ireland, Mexico, South Dakota, Australia, and many others. As this show has been running for quite some time, there have been many other episodes. Think of anything about wilderness survival, and I can assure you, he's covered it on numerous occasions. All in all, my answer is yes. If I had to chose one program for people to watch to educate them on wilderness survival, it would be Man vs Wild, hands down.

Hey BuckyBadger - head on over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

I trust both Bear and Les very much... But I enjoy Survivorman more because he's all alone in the wilderness with NOBODY to help him with anything. Plus he has to carry all of his camera equiptment around. Bear has a whole crew of people with him, whom could be supplying his with a sleeping bag, pillow, food, water, and anything else he might want to make it easier, and then hiding the evidence afterwards. I'm not saying he HAS done this... but I'm just saying that you know for sure with Les. Also, Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.

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Originally Posted by Foxman

I trust both Bear and Les very much... But I enjoy Survivorman more because he's all alone in the wilderness with NOBODY to help him with anything. Plus he has to carry all of his camera equiptment around. Bear has a whole crew of people with him, whom could be supplying his with a sleeping bag, pillow, food, water, and anything else he might want to make it easier, and then hiding the evidence afterwards. I'm not saying he HAS done this... but I'm just saying that you know for sure with Les. Also, Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.

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Bear teaches things that'll get you killed, like drinking urine straight from the bladder...that is bogus!:cool:

I like both shows. I like Survivorman a little better though. They both don't stand a chance against Ray Mears' old shows though. Also i just watched Les Stroud's "Off The Grid". I loved it! http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...15152822&hl=en

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Originally Posted by Foxman

Bear seems to take more dangerous actions when facing poisonious animals or 100 foot high waterfalls, while Les trys the best he can to find at least one more route away from the danger.

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I stopped watching Bear after he suggested you jump in the river and float yourself downstream to safety while in Montana. First of all, you could drown. If not, hypothermia will get you.

Well considering it is T.V I take them both with a grain of salt. However I belive Survivorman to be a little more realistic and practical. Bear might have tons of training and experience but that isn't what the show should be about. I think Les tries to paint a realistic picture in that most people will have minimal to no experience. And the normal person won't scale a cliff or jump 40 feet into a river. Bear takes too many risks for the sake of making his show more entertaining, which doesn't help in a real survival situation.

not sure what you mean by "have to basis" but Les from survivorman is the real deal and is quite knowledgeable about survival situations. Bear Grylls seems to be fairly knowledgeable but his camera crew often helps him out in survival situations and many things on his show are infact staged. If you don't want to be deceived then stick to survivorman.