Group Survival 101.

Ok so the motivations of your post is to expose the motivations of the group lol :D ok I think I got it... I hope

Its not that I’m not trying to pay attention, it’s just hard to retain all that some times.

rim
i quickly tire of you 1st we are a team if i am out on patrol other members would have picked up on SM coming in.
2nd if you cannot read my post properly right in front of you how can i trust your judgment or your word.
3rd if you want to up and qiut because you cannot read my posts properly what does that say about you and your need for acceptance that everyone sees you as a big man just because one person does not like me is of no concern to me, my squad members may have not liked me because i was hard on them yet my squad came home alive....they respected me.that it my mind is more important than friendship.

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

rim
i quickley tire of you

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Have you been having coffee with volwest? Sorry man, just had to, it was out there waiting to be asked :D

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Originally Posted by volwest

It is a fact brought on by neurobiologists that there is no specific spot in the brain for "good" or "bad", for those notions or values depend on cultures and time.

The plasticity of the mind is so that what is good for us can be bad for someone else, and what is bad for us in a certain situation is no longer bad in an other. Everything being based on survival and the memories of what is unpleasant.

The mind does not remember much or not at all of what is good, or what brings on pleasure.
But it knows about reward, and some neurons are constantly on duty to make sure it happens.

In fact we remember very well what a punishment is. Punishment is discomfort. When a being, a rat or a man in training accomplishes an action, which results in pain, they will try to learn a different action to avoid this pain, and even more if there is a reward at the end. Circus animals are educated this way...the hard way, and then the reward way.

What beings look for at all time is the end of the tension(s) which creates pain, and "growing up", or learning, is the discovery of ways which bring us to this release and which end a certain suffering. This learning process is even more reinforced by rewards, meaning the presence of a certain habit, which will set in place the rewarded behavior.

We only look for a tension when we know the possibility to end the said tension. The orgasm is cloned on this model.

In other words, we do not like being tense, unless we know the way to relax.

If we put in place a little experiment...and we twist our arm in a new position which creates after a while a tension, a certain pain or discomfort...it will not be long before we start looking for the way to lower the level of energy which we cannot channel. If the unpleasant position is maintained because we cannot change it, it will become a new position and will be forgotten.
The body can sometimes get use to very unpleasant positions and make do with it...those positions become "normal"...(giraffe women)

It is the same for everything, ideas and thoughts. To accept an idea from someone is unpleasant for it creates a friction with our daily thoughts. We do not listen to music that make us tense, but rather a music which offers us the possibility to bring back our energy level closer to "zero". It is the same for all organisms, from Man to crystal...
The balance is obtained when the level of energy is endlessly brought back to the lowest level.

"...To the concept of negation, corresponds very well the fact that in psychoanalyses, we do not find "no" coming from the unconscious, and that the re-cognition of this unconscious by the self is always expressed by a negative form. The proof is the reaction from the patient when he says: I did not think that...I never thought of that."
Freud

We can therefore understand that everything we do, say or think is in most cases a negation of what bothers us, a refusal of what hurts us, a release in rapport with what pains us.
Where are our affirmations in this endless negation? Where is our power of decision in this automatic search of what makes us suffer, in the automatic search of what brings us a certain reward, or in general, what comforts us and binds us to the image we have of ourselves ?

This affirmation of ourselves, this auto-contemplation, as solid as a rock and as unshakable as DNA is not a voluntary decision, it is not an affirmation of a choice or of a preference...this affirmation is the result of the negation of everything else.

I decide to go see a movie. Is it a free willed based decision? Or is it the negation of many other possibilities, which we do not accept, or even don't think about, that are hidden and that does not appear in our attention but can appear in therapy or in a profound reflection on the essential reasons for our behavior...
All of our ambitions, all of our hopes, all of our intentions are free willed? Or are they what remains in our imagination or in our habits, or simply the obligation to respect the direction that our society invites us to endorse in order to be socially accepted?

Our actions are the negation of what we cannot do, our thoughts are the negation of what we cannot think, our words are the negation of what we must silence. We perceive what we have learned to perceive, we feel what we must feel by negation of what we must not or cannot feel to be human, to be part of humanity.
We are what we did not allow ourselves to be, by obligation, by ignorance, or by intellectual dependence, by lack of freedom of comprehension.

Our mind builds itself, and therefore builds our relationship to the world on, and by negation.
We are conditioned by the negation of everything that is not us.

The repressed is our true nature; we are the negation of our repression, the denial of our true nature.
But we believe we are a gigantic will, an affirmation, a coherent intention...when we are nothing else but "no".

So?

" To be or not to be" that is the question indeed.
And an answer can arise...if we are negation, if we cannot affirm our being but by the refusal of what we are not...Being is first "not being", to no longer BE.
Being is not ex-isting.
Being is in-sisting.

In fact, if we want to be conscious we must diminish the energy that we dispense towards life, or that life takes from our bank without asking. We have to admit to ourselves that we have never been free to decide anything, and that we have always carried a decision or a will which was "the negation of", more than an " acceptation affirming that". We have never been free because our life, through its sweet tooth for energy has prevented us from being more conscious, or in rapport with sensation, with pure perception.

Tensions nourish our consciousness, and the resolution of tensions makes us fall into the trap of rewards.

"I cannot take a human life" is a negation.
The sensation of guilt recalls the maintaining in the minds of individuals of a feeling of belonging to a group.
This guilt will arise when the individual feels that he no longer conforms to the laws of the group to which he wants to belong to, through the needs of defining himself and claim his part of happiness.

The feeling of guilt is an attachment to our minds by ways of adopting an idea, an opinion that we must defend.
The size of the group will be in direct relation to the size of guilt...more people, more guilt to deal with.

When we look at animals, we can observe that they all have traditions, they belong to groups, and they transmit those traditions and feelings of belonging to each others with this mechanism that binds them to follow the rules and laws put in place which are an other way to regulate fear within the group.

Laws and rules arise during the association of similar individuals to regulate power struggles and the distribution of tasks in order to ensure the survival of the group and each individual belonging to the said group. Laws regulate the tensions of the group as a whole but also reduce tensions within individuals.

When laws and rules appear within a group, the individual sees a promise of security, and therefore a better chance to reproduce himself. The representation of his own reproduction and the transmission of himself and of the informations that concerns him and the group to which he belongs to are enlarged to become the representation that the group has of itself.

The individual has no longer an individual based fear but a fear stemming from his own mind which will ironically increase by the simple fact of belonging to a group.
Beyond the sensation of security that units the group, the group itself will become an "individual" with fears of it's own and the need to regulate it's own tensions and reproduction of itself in order to find infinite "life" and therefore will try to assimilate other groups...etc.

Fear amplifies therefore, from cells to tissue, tissue to organs, organs to organisms, organisms to social groups, social groups to nations...

Long enough Sarge ?

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Okay VW, here's a question to something I learned at the Jr. College I attended in Sociology 101: "What 4 things does a society have to have in order to survive? Note, "society", not an individual. Let's see if your the man I think you are.:rolleyes:

May need to do a night jaunt, stretch the legs a little.

I bring to the table;

8 years USMC (3 years 1st Recon Bn.)
Mnt., desert, jungle, cold weather warfare schools
lrrps, patrols
MOS is mechanic, jeeps, 2, 5, 10 ton, Hummer, and Dragon wagon.
No formal martial arts, yet, however USMC hand to hand combat trng.
Rebuild motorcyles, cars, blowers, air comp., and a variety of other things.

Equipment;
308, 350 rounds
357 da revolver, 150 assort. 357/38
50 cal. cut down, 3lbs powder, 300 p caps, and lead.
Poncho liner
Mil. and civ. wool blanket
SS and copper pot
4 canteens & cup
Kabar, two throwing bowies, one mil. style hawk.
extra pair bdu's & socks
possibles kit.
Bino's
min. 1st aid kit.
Mocs
About 8 boxes of those brkfst granola bars.
2 8 pc set wrenches, reg. and metric
2 philips, 3 flat blade screwdrivers
1 10 pc socket set
1 plier
1 cutter
1 lockjaw


in a pack basket.

If I grab the truck;

F-250 4x4, 3 tool boxes fully loaded, gen. air comp., 100 extra gal of gas.
One pole tent
One gal. green paint (it's a white truck)
and whatever else I can heave into the bed.

My two cents.

Lake sounds nice but I do not want to be on the side of it. Too much exposer.

I thought we were on high ground already.

I kind of like the place we are in now, if we need to move, let's get to it. Would not mind sneaking up to that lake and putting in a couple turtle traps. Snapper soup sounds good, fine dining if you ask me.

While back up behind camp, found a honey bee hive. Going to try to get some honey tomm., sure would be good in Sarge's coffee.

Hey, if we are staying here, we better build a latrine or something.

I hope those guys up at the lake don't go peeing and crapping where the waste finds itself into that lake.

WE, If you see RiM, let them know I fix motorcycles. Could trade off.

Okay wolves, I didn't hike in, I drove a bus. Got it off the lot. Yeah the lot was locked but I got keys, all the drivers do. Drove it home and loaded up all the grub, MRE's included, coffee, sugar, flour, even gallon jugs of water. (Really do have everything but the bus!) Took me two days to unbolt all those seats, but I got it done. I've got tents, sleeping bags, Yeah, extras never hurt. My guns, two .22s and a single barreled 12 ga. with some double ought, slugs, and small game loads. (Hey, I live in Freakin' Illinois!) My Ruger 10/22 is scoped and I have a couple of 30 round banana clips for the intense stuff, and lookin' forward to having VW, FVR, WE, or TRAX help me sight it in. Got the ..22 Ruger Mark II in it's holster, and in the middle of my back. Got every blade i own and all my military clothing, including 3 sets of Poly-Pro thermals, Gore-tex parka, fleece jackets, 4 prs. of combat boots, 1 pr. Jungle (G-T), 1 pr. G.T. Desert, @ Black leather, one of which is G.T. lined as well. 2 prs, of binos, Silva Ranger compass, Air-force signal mirror, enough 550 cord to do lots of lashing...and on & on. I barely make it into camp when I run out of fuel, but that's okay, this thing,ll make one bit*hin' shelter! Strangely enough, I only get a grudging nod from everybody, and some comments like "well, at least he left the kitchen sink at home." & "Do you believe it? There ain't a single bottle of booze anywhere in all that crap!" Sorry guys.:o Lately I've been spending my spare time trying to teach Owl-girl 'self-defense" but have gotten tired of gettin' my butt kicked! SM has wandered in with some younger wolves, Wild Goth (WG), and Survivorman (SMII) Sm has put them to work setting up booby-traps & big snares as well as digging pits with pugi stakes in the bottom. (Hmmm, note to self, get SM to have a nice long talk with VW as soon as possible!) I've saved every tin-can we've used for food. When I opened them I left the lids partially attached. The small stream nearby, (probably runs off into the lake) has about a million stones so I've dumped a few into each can and had SM help me string them across the trails on all the ways into our camp using 550 cord. Good chance anybody tries sneakin' up on us they'll give away their position! Well, gotta go and make more coffee, FVR, Trax, WE, & VW have been really hittin' it...I suspect FVR has dumped some Seagram's Crown Royal into it...

Got the honey, about a half gal., few bee stings no biggy.

WE, noticed a set of mountain lion tracks north of the camp, watch your back.

Found some hackberries out past the woodpile. I think there is enough for a pie, most are sweat, few tart ones.

Sneaking back into my fox hole for a few zzz's.

What watch am I on?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

rim
i quickly tire of you 1st we are a team if i am out on patrol other members would have picked up on SM coming in.
2nd if you cannot read my post properly right in front of you how can i trust your judgment or your word.
3rd if you want to up and qiut because you cannot read my posts properly what does that say about you and your need for acceptance that everyone sees you as a big man just because one person does not like me is of no concern to me, my squad members may have not liked me because i was hard on them yet my squad came home alive....they respected me.that it my mind is more important than friendship.

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I will respond tomorrow, but I have no idea what you are talking about. you did not even awnser my question.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by volwest

Other wise, i am liking our spot too...and if this is it, a more permanent shelter has to be thought off before fall...with maybe a root cellar ?

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I think a root cellar is a good idea. Also maybe we should be smoking some meat soon.

Fight nice, children.

Guard Duty times

During daylight hours, one person watch as camp is active. You need to work out your duties around your watch times. If there is a conflict, contact WE or FVR.

No sleeping, alcohol consumption, smoking, or sleeping on duty. Your screw up can cost us our lives.

Be watchful for not only people, but for the mountain lion who's tracks have been found.


2100 to 2400 Vol-West & Nell

2400 to 0200 FVR & Foggy

0200 to 0500 Wareagle & Marscroft


0500 to 0800 Owl-Girl


0800 to 1100 Lumpy

1100 to 1300 Wareagle

1300 to 1600 FVR

1600 to 1900 Sarge

1900 to 2100 Trax


Trax, we need to know if this will conflict with your sleep and hunting schedule.

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Originally Posted by volwest

Hey Sarge...
I like your question...and if we think about it i am sure we could come up with different answers since "have to have" is once again a relative concept...and unfortunately, i have to make my answer short for i already exceeded my 5000 words for the day...

Here is my answer...

-population
-culture
-material products
-organization

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According to Barny Hoskins, my sociology prof. back in "The Day" here's what he taught.

-Food (Includes water)
-Shelter
-Clothing
-Religion.

He got a lot of flack on that last one as this was in the "God-less" late 60's, early 70's. Yet no one could come up with anything to prove him wrong, not even me, and back then I was an Atheist/Agnostic. As for talking to SM, if you don't think he's a bit "over the top" with the Punji Stakes, maybe you can find a use for him.:confused:

If the camp is accessable by vehicle, then I will bring the truck in but I will have to follow WE as the 250 is heavy and may need a pull. Can't do mud, it goes right to the bottom.

If camp is not accessable, then the truck will stay cached. It is located about 6 miles back towards RiM's vehicles. I found a new growth area off to the left that I could drive over. Felled a tree across my tracks when I drove off the main trail.

I may need a pull out of the spot I parked it. I drove into a slight low area, painted it green and covered with young pines. I have two come alongs, and tow low.

I got my bus in on an old logging road that's not very discernable, then I drove through the woods and barely made it into camp. A school bus is built like a tank with steel sides. I oughta know, ask a certain semi-driver. When you take the training they show you a cut-away of the steel reinforcing ribs. Make a good defensivive bunker of sorts....;)

I'm sleeping in a freak'n foxhole and you got a bus parked right down the road!

I woke up last night with a darn snake wrapped around my leg, I'm shaking, pulling, throwing and it's one of them bright green garder snakes. I wake up and there are spiders in my hair, and you, you have a bus?

Man, I missed the boat.

I have coyotes walking past my little hole, just wondering when that mountain lion is going to want to get cozy. Does it have air?



Fine! Crawling back into my hole now, maybe tonight a rattler will come and visit. Ooooooo, breakfast.



He was living with a female panther.



Two years in a cave
up in the Musselshell.



She never did get used to him.

I've decided that I don't want to spend the cold northern winter alone. So after watching the goings on at this little camp I scoped from the far ridge I know they haven't seen me since I have remained well covered from my observation post. I have spotted 5 armed men and one armed wood cutter as well as two women. The men appear to have military training by the way they dealt with the visitor to their camp a few days ago and the fact that they have rotating sentry duty. Unfortunately it seems they have no interest in anyone joining their group since the messenger that came to them from the other group returned with what apparently was bad news and they quickly left for a lake that i can see in the distance, I don't care for the exposed position near the lake and I'm not sure if that group is freindly or not since I haven'y been able to recon them properly from this distance. To move to a closer position would mean I'd have to go through the other groups perimeter. I make my decision to try and satrt a dialogue wiht the group in the woods next to that big *** bus. I decide that my only recourse is to expose myself in a clearing with my rifle shouldered and the offering of a deer and wait for their response.

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Originally Posted by FVR

I'm sleeping in a freak'n foxhole and you got a bus parked right down the road!

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Isn't sarge just in keeping of military tradition.When I was in the field, the supply NCO always managed to find a cozy vehicle to sleep in,while the rest of us would be freezing our arse's off.:)

SARGE!

Here is the damn snake I promised ya.

Good coffee.

When you see WE, let him know I'm doing my thing today. Going up towards the lake, taking the basket, I need some greens.

Hoping to find some watercress, onions, maybe patatoes and of course some cattail. Would not mind you making a few loaves of starch.

See ya'll after dark.

Oh, woods all taken care of. Pull from the big pile, all dry and no bark.

Hold on to this Crown will ya, think some fox or raccoon's been in it.

That one hour lap over time is getting close to dusk, best hunting hours.

Owl_girl and I have packed back a big buck, plenty of meat for awhile, will set up a tipi style meat smoker if that's ok from security standpoint. I can go back and use gut piles to bait cougar, coyote, fox or raccoon away from camp. They shouldn't be a threat, but on the other hand..those hides might come in handy come the colder weather. Going to travel with the .243 for now and offer to leave my .30 cal with Nell while she's in camp, if she wants to keep something handy. Will switch out with her if I find moose signs. I can load the .243 with 125 grain for deer, 70 grain for smaller. I'll start snaring for anything really small if we need them..I can snare rabbits, grouse, geese.

FVR, I recommend nell and owl_girl are future "greens gathering excursions" and thanks for the honey, like my coffee sweet.

Do we need to talk about..how do I ask this? People for the most part might want to remain with in a specific perimeter? Obviously those of us hunting/gathering will have to exceed that, but if its not necessary don't wander too far from camp? I can set up distance warning devices on the more obvious trails in, while I'm out tracking and hunting...and let those who need to travel know where they are placed.