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We may be reading too much into Talon's post. I believe he's trying to tell us he agrees with everyone here about Hitler being the southern exposure of a north bound mule. But, the rest of it I still haven't quite digested.
Talon, take a moment.
Think it out, and put it into the correct words.
and please, write slowly so I can keep up...
I dunno, Schleprok, I don't think I wanna read anymore
Unfortunately history will repeat itself; it always does as we fail to learn its lesson. Looking around today, we see "brilliant" dictators very much alive and who have or who are getting nuclear weapons.
I picked up "The Great Deluge" by Douglas Brinkley in a used book sale and am half way through it. Douglas Brinkley is a historian and lived in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina. His description of this tragedy; how the authorities totally collapsed; the mistakes made; and how some heroes emerged among a sea of incompetents is stunning. It is a large book but worth reading.
I understood what Talon was saying from the get go. Or thought I did. I also understand the curiosity to learn what drives men like that. In fact, it's important to understand men like that, to whatever degree we can, so we can spot them more easily in the future. I think brilliant is the wrong word, though. A lot of men (and some women) have ruled by fear and intimidation. That isn't brilliance but tyranny.
Once you finish Mein Kampf, you might try a read like "Hitler's Empire - How the Nazis Ruled Europe". You'll see not only how they built their power base but how they lost it as well. You will also get a glimpse of what Europe might have been like if they had been allowed to continue their domination.
Hitler made a lot of military, political and social mistakes. That they occurred over a relatively short span of time and beneath the dark veil of WWII, helps mask them.
I can see what Talon is saying. It's not the first time I've heard the declaration that "Hitler was brilliant". I've heard all the supporting facts, read the history, blah blah blah. I agree with Talon, but I also agree with the rest of you.
See, while Hitler may have been a murdering madman who's bent for world domination destroyed many people, many family's, and many things such as the art they are still "finding", he also accomplished a lot. I'm not really interested in running down what he did good or, more often than not, bad, but it is undeniable that Europe, and indeed the rest of the world, was forever changed by his actions. In that regard, he was "brilliant". He managed to make a name for himself that will live on in infamy for eternity. Most of the time simply invoking his name in a forum is enough to get a thread closed (oooh, no, he said Voldemort!), mainly because of the reactions to it, just like here. In trying to impose his vision of reality on the world he has earned him the spot, at least for now, of the worlds #1 villain of all time.
Does that mean he wasn't "brilliant"? Possibly. I agree with Rick that it's the wrong choice of words. He was, and I don't think anyone can dispute this, extremely intelligent, and charismatic. Psychotic, sure, but, look at some of the other examples that have been provided. Manson, Ghengis Khan, Ceasar...I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mr. Bonaparte. All of them were dictators bent on world conquest (ok, except Manson. He was just charismatic). All of them were extremely intelligent. All of them, in addition to their destruction, gave the world "things", ideas, concepts, that we never would have had without their "brilliance". Ghengis Khan... If I'm not mistaken, isn't he attributed with the invention of the jerking process, by salting the meat and placing it under the saddle to cure? The short bow? An invention that enabled his people to shoot from horseback while moving, thus allowing him to devastate his opponents? Developments that spawned further invention and ideas...the progression of society.
Talon, I sincerely hope you are honest in your statements that it is simply a fascination with history and the troubled times we've gone through to avoid it happening again. I love that type of history myself. The Nazi's and the Alliance, the murdering bastards and the IRA, the Mongol hoards, the Romans, there is so much we can learn from all of it. But to take the ideology of the sadists in power in Germany during that time period will ultimately prove to be a fatal mistake in your own life and personal development.
Just mho.
And to all those that lost someone during the holocaust, or even during WWII, please don't mistake my words for a sympathetic bent for the Nazi's. My family lost several members fighting those bastards. It's just that I can see both sides of it. Just like 9/11. I watched the whole thing go down from South Korea, and while the reality of the horror of what had happened set in, at the same time, I felt compelled to comment on the organization and professionalism it took for a small group to pull off such an act.
lol. Ain't that the truth? ----^Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken
Not to change the subject, but does anyone else read "the Backwoodsman" magazine?
This is a great pub. Believe it is still basically put together on the kitchen table.
Currently I am rereading Volume 29, No. 3.
Just a brief on the table of contents (not complete)
- sling arrow (might be a good thing to know how to make/use)
- making willow furniture
- Woodslore
- fire piston
- making a "frontier" knife sheath
- modern possibles bag
- carve your own wooden utensils
- 10 minute survival kit (altoids tin in the butt of a .22 rifle)
- wild radish
- homemade root beet
and my personal favorite (barter, trade, swap...)
- trading up (story by Stephen Johnson)
story of a young man who finds an arrowhead and makes some outstanding tradeups to wind up with....... nah, don't wanna spoil it for ya!
anyhow, if you haven't checked this magazine out, give it a try.
I originally found it at wallyworld, but most of them don't carry it for whatever reason. Online at backwoodsmanmag dot com
For Entertainment- Code Name Quickstrike by William W Johnstone (Thought Rockinghorse and Sandman was better)
Previous- Novilization of Pale Rider
Survivalwise- Foxfire 2 3 & 4
These are books from the 60s or 70s that show all sorts of simple livin' techniques.
I see some of you understand what I'm saying.. It's not admiration of Hitler at all.. I think he was one of the worst people to have ever lived on this earth. THIS is also what makes him one of the more interesting people to learn about. Maybe brilliant was the wrong word.. but I promise you that your average joe dumbass couldn't have pulled off what he did.
What I mean to say is that Hitler was one of the most skilled orators and leaders of his time. He had a special ability to influence others and motivate them to accept his flawed and immoral beliefs. He WAS a brilliant speaker. He almost effortlessly convinced people against there own morals to follow his blind hatred against the Jewish people.
Hitlers IQ was estimated to be somewhere around 150 which is nearing genius.
I spoke to my Grandmother a few years back about her experience in the 40's living in Germany. Hitler brought Germany out of debt, their economy was flourishing. Germany was once again a powerful nation thanks to Adolf Hitler. She told me life for the German people was great, and as far as the Jews were concerned they really didn't consider them.. This is horrible I know, but it's how the German people were at the time.
So once more as this will be my last post on this topic. I do not intend to make it sound as if I have some type of admiration for this man. I have nothing but disgust for Hitler and what he did. As someone else stated it's merely interesting to try to understand the madness that would drive a man such as Hitler, however, feeble an attempt it may be.
Sometimes when I am writing I have a tendency to ramble a bit. This may cause my words to be able to be easily misconstrued. So I hope this might clear it up a little.
Mensa qualifies you as a member at 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by talon
Oh, and from the earlier post, it may have been Atilla the Hun that invented the short bow. Couldn't find the reference either way.
That is also around the range of clinical insanity...Quote:
Originally Posted by talon
I am currently reading books about Genghis Khan and Atilla. Both were very evil and ruthless but also had great leadership abilities. The book claims Atilla did not invent the short bow, but his people probably dead.
As for the 9/11 hijackers and Bin Loony, I do not agree this whole plot was all that professional or brilliant. They had a whole big crew to hijack the planes, and the pilots and aircrews at that time were instructed not to resist a hijacking attempt. as for flying the planes, taking off and landing are the hardest parts and they didn't have to do that.
Plus the hardest part of any crime is getting away afterwards, and they never managed that either. As for running planes into things, this is not even an original idea.
After researching it and not being able to find a source citing which had done it, I chalked it up to a "nobody really knows" deal, and figured it was simply "the mongols", but as it's commonly depicted from assyria moving forward, I'd have to compare the time frames, and I'm honestly not that interested. I'd rather shoot one than go through all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by chiangmaimav
As for the Al Queda stuff, *shrug* we rarely see eye to eye, but I do see your point, 100%. I do, however, still think it took just a little bit more than your giving them credit for, in that they were able to quasi-co-ordinate a massive attack on the United States that ended in a fatality count in the thousands. Whether it was an original idea or not, they pulled it off, however badly. I mean, does it matter how badly you screwed up getting rid of the gunner in the bunker, or does it just matter that he's gone and you can move further up the hill?
My IQ is 153 :\ Tested at the Francis Tuttle Technology Center in OKC last December.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mama
That's nearly my teenage daughter's IQ...I rest my case.
Brilliance emcompasses so much more than just those things, but can be narrowed to an acute definition depending on the topic at hand.Quote:
Well...To me, "brilliance" is not only related to charisma and certain tactical understandings, but also how the individual approached the world.
Then you would doom yourself and society (if they took your view) to repeat the mistakes of the past. Being informed about the atrocity's perpetrated on our peoples is the best way to avoid it happening again.Quote:
I would never read up on mistaken individuals such as Adolph.
Not true at all.Quote:
Hitler was not brilliant.
Brilliance suggests an understanding of certain values...life being the main one.
bril·liant (brhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.giflhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifyhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifnt)adj.1. Full of light; shining. See Synonyms at bright.
2. Relating to or being a hue that has a combination of high lightness and strong saturation.
3. Sharp and clear in tone.
4. Glorious; magnificent: the brilliant court life at Versailles.
5. Superb; wonderful: The soloist gave a brilliant performance.
6. Marked by unusual and impressive intellectual acuteness:
Hitler most definitely falls into #6, and I don't think anyone can deny that the man was intelligent. Psychotically insane, yes. But he was genius level intelligent. Your "view" of brilliant may include an understanding of values, which life is not a "value". But your view of what a word represents does not define what the word actually represents.
Granted, Hitler did not, but "brilliant individuals" do not necessarily stand on their own. There are very few of us that can accomplish anything considered "brilliant" on our own.Quote:
Hitler, did not stand on his own.
Brilliant individuals do.
Regardless of his *reasons* for doing it, he did it, didn't he? The accomplishment is lasting, his reasons died with him or shortly thereafter. What stood the test of time?Quote:
Murderers are not brilliant.
And he did not bring back the German economy for the German people, but for once again, his own delusional agenda.
You are confusing bravery and courage with brilliance. Not to take anything away from the soldiers that shed their lifes blood on the beaches that day, I'm just pointing out that there is nothing "brilliant" about physically charging up a well defended hill. There's not even anything brilliant about the tactic "We're going to throw enough young bodies at the obstacle until eventually we've spent so many lives they run out of ammo or someone slips through." Yeah, brilliant.Quote:
All of those kids landing on the beaches of Normandy were brilliant..
You're right, cause, ya know, I get my definitions from the dictionary...Quote:
We do not have the same definition of intelligence then....
Suffering is universal and would have happened with or without Hitler. Your dodging the question because you know I'm right.Quote:
"Regardless of his *reasons* for doing it, he did it, didn't he? The accomplishment is lasting, his reasons died with him or shortly thereafter. What stood the test of time?"
Suffering.
That's not MY list, it came from the dictionary. I'm just pointing out that he fits into the definition of brilliant that society has agreed upon.Quote:
I am not confusing anything....If you attribute #6 on your list to hitler...
And that statement is proof enough this conversation is going nowhere.Quote:
A tree is intelligent by design
Well, Crimeny. All this because the guy used the word brilliant? Let me go edit the post to read...
"Hitler was a brilliant mime. It's interesting learning about how he thought and some of the meaning in his antics."
Now then. Go argue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Haha.. these were my thoughts this entire time.. It's absurd how one controversial use of a word can stir up such arguments in a online forum.
lol. I was just trying to play by the rules, trying to find a common ground for what the terms mean that could be agreed upon. And I agree this going nowhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by remy
As for the rest of it, you are correct. Each "society" interprets the terms differently.