"Alone."

The only thing I will add and I am hesitant but I think it also plays a much larger role than most want to admit and that is that I don't think any of these guys are hunters. If they are then maybe their hunting grounds are as rich as those in Texas, been there and man the deer are like rats in New York! Here in La hunting on family land and on the WMA's is far from a sure thing. Being diligent, calculating and persistent are virtues needed to be successful year after year with a bow. I was fortunate to have grown up shooting a recurve or longbow all my life and have taken far more than just deer with them year after year.

Subsistence trapping has been apart of my grand fathers life out of necessity and those skills come from doing and not just reading or practicing a concept, but today with food being so easy to acquire or prepackaged for our convenience I think we oft take for granted how hard food is to come by when we have to procure it ourselves. Lack of knowledge about botany, fishing, trapping and hunting and the lack of serious study and doing has fostered up a false since of security in many whos rose colored lens taint the harsh truth that Nature is an environment where the foolish and ill prepared come to die.

This is Not about survival, it about extreme homesteading. these guys have found their island paradise more like a green prison. The loneliness is killing them and it's something to remember, however it's not survival. In a true survival situation you're stuck until you are lucky enough to be rescued, these guys have a lifeline..ergo a sat phone that they can call for extraction anytime they want. They are told in advance how much and what kind of gear they can take where a prudent person trained in survival would have taken additional items, more to the point of lasting longer, like a book or two or a deck of cards. They may have also tried to hook up with others. I've learned some things from watching this, like NEVER get involved in a reality show!...:scared:

I agree with you Sarge47 this History Channel "Alone" comes closer to my definition of primitive living than survival which would be to get back to civilization or at least an area with better resources and some people. The artificial rules of a "reality show" (oxymoron) dictate that they stay there in a bad situation and not try to be rescued even though they have the means, because they want to win the game and the reward.

One of my major reasons for not doing any so called "reality TV" show is that I don't want a camera in my face and then some off hand comment or a bunch of them shown on TV for thousands or millions of viewers to see and possibly live on for decades on YouTube. The internet never forgets! No amount of money can erase making an fool of yourself on TV. Once when I spent a year in S-California (4th grade) I told some kids about something I did and ate in the Amazon jungle, and then horror of horrors my father was asked by the teacher to come speak to the class. Those suburban nerds never let me forget that I was different than them. Should have just shut up and acted as normal as possible. People who live boring lives get jealous and act nasty in my experience.

EA some parts of Texas are infested with deer but not all. Out west where it has been very dry they are not common far from water. And most are small compared to OK and states further north. Other note about N-V.I. is that when the resources like water and vegetation are abundant for wildlife like deer and rabbits they can move out of an area were a human is camping fairly quickly and they men were not very mobile. But I wondered how good they were at tacking animals especially looking for signs of small game, speculative tracking as well. I.e. where would you expect a squirrel to be what would they be eating and living in?

I understand your thoughts on the word survival and yes they have an out however they must still do the same things as would be needed to survive as if it were the truth was they were there till rescued. There is always something to be learned or gained but you must be open to learning.

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Originally Posted by Erratus Animus

All of that said Neither Mitch nor Lucas are diminished in my mind and both did mighty well. If this show has proven anything is that we truly are social beings and can survive better when we are not Alone.

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This; frankly, I was disappointed with six taps in eight days, but impressed that the rest held on well past the first month. That's really the point where I would call survival sustainable, and it's really just down to the deeper psychological factors (or unforeseen emergencies - doubt any of these guys could get through even a sprained ankle with the pure day-to-day existence they've got) by then. I have to wonder how this show would go with couples, whether preexisting couples or random pairings.

I wondered the same things with the couples as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Erratus Animus

I understand your thoughts on the word survival and yes they have an out however they must still do the same things as would be needed to survive as if it were the truth was they were there till rescued. There is always something to be learned or gained but you must be open to learning.

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Perhaps, but at the back of everyone's mind on the island there's that thought: "Hey, I can leave anytime I want." they know that they're just one phone call away from leaving the situation. In a true survival situation you long for rescue and have to deal with the psychological consequences of that as well....:cowboy:

Sarge I don't disagree with ya . I do think most rational and practical people understand that but the word survival has come to mean several things to modern society. The show is just to see how long some guys can stay with a few hitches. No one would , atleast I hope not anyways, be so ignorant to willing choose only 10 items to try and survival for a period or homestead as per your view. Semantics either way since it is a planned event with an out via the phone a friend.

I'm late to this party...I don't get to watch these while they are first airing nor comment about them till even later...and some of what I'd say has already been said...but I have a couple of points to disagree on, though it's not to disagree or argue but only to do my part in offering different perspectives...

Sam was one of who I thought I liked, though he was seen as immature by some in here. Liked his attitude and disposition. And Alan is definitely someone who I had a good intuition about early. That dude's attitude and dispostion is amazing. One of whom I personally relate to a little. There were a couple others who I felt the same way about, but was wrong. Tapped out early and seemingly easy. Couldn't tell you now what their name's were. Was almost embarrassed for the guy who lost his firestarter, because I swear he was just trying to make an excuse for tapping...he said himself at first ("need to nurture the fire that I have") and while he was complaining on camera that he couldn't make fire anymore, that fire was burning in the background. All the while him saying that he can't make fire now, so what am I gonna do? He wasn't even going to try to at least go for as long as he could keep that fire going. Very defeatist.

Yea, ALONE wasn't survival, or rescue, but more on the homesteading end of the spectrum. Dual Survival and Dude You're Screwed is more about rescue, including self-rescue...Naked & Afraid was about simply holding on for an extended/delayed rescue and being literally butt naked having almost nothing, but it often ended up with them just sitting around letting the days tick off till the 3 weeks passed, and if it were real, if they weren't getting rescued after 3 weeks, they'd be dead...Alone is more homesteading, but I'd say kind of a survival or primitive homesteading, there till they're the last one but not staying otherwise. Not totally uselessly naked, but not with all that much either if they were going to dig in for life. Trying to just hang on, but by carving out a home and living nonetheless, even if it is for a finite period of time.

Yes, hunting skill, butchering, and plant knowledge is vital. It can turn out that you're good at shelter, fire, and finding and processing water in the first few days (not to say that they don't require talent, but I see CONSISTENT food acquisition as being harder)...but if after that you can't find food, that's bad. These are the areas where I'm lacking the most - plant knowledge and hunting/butchering experience. I've done a little, and know a few things concerning plants, but I know that I don't know nearly enough nor have quite enough experience. I would cite the fact that I've mostly been successful at being a quick study, have good intuition, and am innovative...but I wouldn't bet any money on it making me successful in a primitive survival scenario. That's part of the good sense that I do have - I know that I wouldn't bet any money on it concerning those areas.

At a place where I lived once, there were a dozen deer within 100 feet of the front porch every morning, and you could count up to 50 pairs of eyes while driving down the dirt road at night...but as soon as hunting season began, almost nobody could find anything. The thunder of the black powder portion of the season didn't seem to sound very often. And in those parts I know that there was a lot of black powder out there.

And it's a tricky question - do something alone, or with others. Some do badly in solitude, and a group can help each other a lot...but at least with the t.v. shows (though maybe not in all real-reality situations), the social dynamics often suck badly. In groups or pairs, how they interact with each other and their attitudes are SO bad. Unbelievably aweful. What ruins it for me within the first few minutes in most shows is how the people start acting with each other so easily and early and over practically nothing at all. Downright pitiful. They seem so insecure, confrontational, and negative, instead of positive and productive and constructive in their interactions.

PSYCHOLOGY

I was going to say some of this in the thread about psychology, but I'll put it here for now...

This is an area where I think that I have most people beat. And I can't even understand or relate to much of what I see and hear about.

This is not to say anything against people with families and strong social connections though, and how it affects some versus how it affects me. But...concerning the solitude, monotony, boredom, being spooked by the outdoors and your vulnerability or feeling clausterphobic, etc...These are things which I just can't relate to. They seem alien to me. And my following views on how I'd do is not because of a naive romantic idea...this is just how I know I would be "out there".

I've said it before in here - I would love something like this NOT because I'd be trying to get away from something, but because I'd like being in the other world that the wilderness is. I am not anti-social, and am quite socially adjusted, and am very comfortable and successful socially. On the one hand, I am not introverted, in fact I'm decent at extroversion...but on the other hand, I don't "need" people so much just for the sake of their presence - I don't depend upon people for my identity or psychological health or happiness.

The "boredom", or "monotony"...that's just not how I see it. That's not how it feels to me. When I'm locked in my shelter for days because of the weather like it's a tomb...yea, I get tired of that. But it doesn't "bother" me or freak me out. I don't begin to hate being out there. I don't "miss" anything. I don't see anything to be bored from. I instead still love it. Versus people being spooked by the woods at night, or the harshness of the lifestyle, I see it as wonderful. All that stuff is what I'm there FOR. Doing what you have to do takes lots of time...I enjoy doing the basics instead of feeling like they're a chore. And if I have time on my hands, believe me I'll be working on something that I see as fun, all by myself. Improving my survival protocols, my situation. Carving a totem pole, making a drum and pounding on it for hours, watching and listening to the flora and fauna and getting to know it better - which would help my survival attempts. It's not lonely or quiet or peaceful...it's noisy with other things, other kinds of life which is why I'm there. The woods at night is cool, not scary or claustrophobic. Even when vulnerable and with dangerous predators around. And I don't have the mood swings between being negative and defeatist from a lack of success at something and rediscovered enthusiasm when successful.

I definately respect everything from mosquitos to cougars, trust me on that...but I don't fear them. There is very much a difference. You fear something, you're in trouble. You don't respect something, you're in trouble. So this helps my disposition I'm sure. This isn't to say that my fear wouldn't try to overwhelm me all on it's own when a bear is staring at me too intently, I'd be stupid to say otherwise...but I'm pretty sure that I'd respond out of more than panic and be prepared as well.

So...one mistake that I see often in shows like ALONE - They are trying to do what they need to do because they have to; because that's what's required to participate on the show, like they are a chore. Instead, a person should be wanting to live primitively in the wilderness, because they want to do that and because they enjoy it, and because they truly enjoy that environment. Not because that's just what they have to do because they're on the show. So they often approach their endeavors with such subconcious loathing, "oh do I have to ma?" attitudes, and defeatist mindsets, because they're not thinking of it or are there because they want to do it, but instead they're just there to either "win" the show or prove something to themselves or their family/friends.

Sorry for the long post...please don't throw vegetables at me.

I watched the final (10the episode of Alone season 1) last night it was good with many words of wisdom from Alan who has earned the right to give them in my opinion. I will admit I fell asleep at least once during the first hour and had to rewind, TV does not agree with me at that hour and I typically wake up at dawn or before. 99% of wilderness survival is boring even to me.

Sam earns a great deal of respect from me as well. I strongly dislike flapping tents and tarp in strong winds, and cannot imaging enduing that sound for 4 days straight, WOW!! He must be very concerned about falling trees, and uncertain about how to construct a sturdy shelter to deflect them.

Other concern is that even for a very healthy person typically after about 40 days the lack of good nutrition and basically a near starvation diet can cause permanent physical injury that will last the rest of their life. So about 56 days was pushing it. I have two friends in Brazil who grew up very poor and malnourished they are both very nice people but have some brain damage due to it. I was not quick on my feet when doing a Skype interview with TV Mark but he basically asked me what I would be willing to risk to demonstrate my Faith on a Survival show. I think that would be one big thing. Also being very cold and wet because that can kill a person in less than an hour in extreme conditions even in the tropics or in a desert after the sun goes down. I have been very close to my body core temperature spiraling down below 96.6F both in the Amazon Rain Forest on rainy nights and in the California High Desert without enough insulation. Alan with a 40F degree summer time Sleep bag in the winter on North Vancouver Island had it very bad. So great respect to him for sticking it out and building the best shelter to help in that situation despite the uncomfortable cramped design of it.

I enjoyed the whole season.

I was hoping for Alan to win. He maintained a sense of humor throughout.

Sam's most important trait was his positive attitude.

I find it very interesting and enjoyable that a sense of humor turns out to be more valuable then a positive attitude.

Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.

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Originally Posted by Winter

Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.

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That is an excellent point. The simple answer may be that during that most difficult part of the year (Fall-Winter) for that area all the fair weather days must be used foraging for food. However, Lucas built several shelters and if you watched the 2nd hour last night when the 3 contestants commented on the last episode they discussed how they were surprised that Sam stayed in his tent shelter out in the open the entire time, never moved to a more weather protected area. Sam either had no more cord or did not see the benefit of tying down the flapping plastic tarp or adding fir branches for insulation. That seemed strange. The men commented on that. Hunger can cause a person's brain not to work well but it may be that at age 22 Sam just had very limited experience.

My camping friends often bug me about all the time I take setting up and messing with a very simple tarp that I sleep under. But there are an infinite number of ways to configure it and always new ways I want to experiment with rather than just sit around the campfire and chat for hours BEFORE the sun goes down. Same thing with a simple rod (sapling), line and set of hooks, infinite number of ways to catch fish with just those 3 items.

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Originally Posted by Winter

Discussing the show with my friends tends to gravitate towards why these guys stopped improving their shelters. Your shelter should continually improve.

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This; unlike the "pick up and run" mentality of all the other shows, Alone is focused on staying put. Once you've established a base camp, that's where every bit of effort not devoted to food, water and rescue should go.

I might overlook stopping after you have a flush toilet and microwave.

My area is much like Vancouver Island except 600 miles north of there, LOL

Here's a shelter for a 4 day trip.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d8&oe=5679E491

It was really windy so we started building walls out of sticks and moss. You can see one left center, the other is not visible behind that stump. If you have a tarp, use it for overhead and build your walls. That way you have way more dry interior space.

By the time we left, there was a wall on the right edge of the shelter as well.

I know, "leave no trace", but around here, your shelter frame could save someones life in an emergency.

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Originally Posted by TXyakr

Sam either had no more cord or did not see the benefit of tying down the flapping plastic tarp or adding fir branches for insulation. That seemed strange.

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Looks like he had at least three tarps, (brown canvas main shell with green poly on top and blue poly in back) so piling some bulk between the brown and green would have done wonders to silence the flapping and insulate the heck out of the shelter. If he was out of cordage, then gathering some fiber plants during his ventures outside would have allowed him to put the time in the shelter to good use. Doesn't look like there's anything as good as yucca or grapevine out there, but there are obviously some grasses that could be spun or braided for the lengths he'd need to lash more shelter coverage together.

Alan had the right idea with a tiny shelter to retain heat, but a larger sheltered work/staging area near the main sanctum would have expanded both of their possibilities a lot.

I liked Sam's comment that it had been a "big kick in the butt into adulthood." I bet it does have a major positive effect on him for the rest of his life, and I wish we could all have some serious rite of passage like a couple months in a harsh wilderness around that age, since it seems to be about where most people are finally forced into adulthood in modern society. (A quick look around a college campus will show you that it's sure not happening before age 20.) I wonder how many would actually last two weeks, considering 60% of these guys didn't.

Winter I noticed in your photo that you had a large Ice Chest, propane heater, and firearm, 3 items that were not even on the list of available items for the men of Alone to select from. These would have freed up some time for them to work on their shelter, also if they were camping out in the summer not winter.

Dogbane is one of the most popular and useful plants for making natural cordage in North America, not certain that it grows in this part of Vancouver Island but even it takes a lot of time, energy and skill to form into viable cordage.

http://www.primitiveways.com/hemp_dogbane.html

All I can figure out about Sam is that he just thought that his youth would allow him to tough it out and it did get him past 8 others. But I have seen older men hike or paddle past much younger men who were very inconsistent like the hare versus the tortoise. The younger go fast but are not steady or wise and experienced.

Edit: Going off to University and or the Military is a fairly good rite of passage for most people. I am concerned that today this is just not possible and it is much more economical to take classes online. Also less than 1% ever serve in combat even during major military operations like Iraq and Afghanistan. But after both boys and girls have leaned the basics of camping there is no reason they cannot camp for a long weekend or more solo. Just take a phone or PLB to signal for help if injured or have someone hike by to check on them from a distance. Many scouts do this. Alan made several good comments about the therapeutic benefits of this. I generally remove the battery from my phone and put it in a dry bag. There is no signal tower anyway, I would need to climb to a tall ridge to get one. When I am taking a group of kids, I check out detailed coverage maps to have an idea of which ridge lines might be best and where the closed roads are to hike to. Also in some very remote areas we take a satellite phone or PLB, but rescue could still take hours or even a day or two.

Funny story: once I went on a 2 night primitive camping river trip and used a very short wide kayak that was very difficult to paddle into strong winds from a tropical storm coming from the Gulf of Mexico. Almost all the others were way out in front of me far down the river beyond my sight around the river bends etc. I paddled steady and was certain they had all gotten to the camping island before me and I was a little ticked off, this was a group I had never camped with before. But most of them had taken breaks up side creeks and under tree branches etc., I had passed them and not realized it.

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Originally Posted by TXyakr

Winter I noticed in your photo that you had a large Ice Chest, propane heater, and firearm, 3 items that were not even on the list of available items for the men of Alone to select from. These would have freed up some time for them to work on their shelter, also if they were camping out in the summer not winter.

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I was on a hunting trip in November. My post was more an example of site improvement, not comparing a 4 day hunt to a 56 day survival trip.

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Originally Posted by Batch

I have camped in tropical storms and in some pretty nasty storms. That is normal weather for us during the wet season.

A 60 mph storm is pretty dramatic from inside a tent. When they were showing the guys inside their shelters it sure didn't look like the winds were blowing very hard outside. Or was that just my impression?

I also believe that they have given some kind of incentive to put on the water works. Otherwise who turns on a camera and says that they just spent the last 10 minutes on their knees crying. It does look like some are forcing the emotion too.

Ok, and so then there were four.

If you had to guess what is the order you would say they are leaving the island?

For me right now, I think it is this order.

Lucas (he said if he could be build a boat he would feel like he achieved something.)

Mitch (This guy seems very likable. I even have a freind who looks and talks a lot like him. But, I think the following two have personalities more suited toward isolation.)

Sam (Seems good with being alone.)

Alan (I don't know what it is. But, Alan just seems to be competitive and again he seems to be good with the isolation.)

Could be anybody's game and I am sure they are showing footage that would throw us off. But, no harm in guessing, right?

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This dude had the exact order a month ago. We should promote him to super duper clairvoyant reality show figurer outer or give him a cookie or something!

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Originally Posted by Winter

I was on a hunting trip in November. My post was more an example of site improvement, not comparing a 4 day hunt to a 56 day survival trip.

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.....Looks down right comfy to me....Nice camp.

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Originally Posted by Batch

This dude had the exact order a month ago. We should promote him to super duper clairvoyant reality show figurer outer or give him a cookie or something!

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I'll send you a cookie Robert, it might be just an envelope full of crumbs when it arrives but I have your full name, birth date, height, city and zip code from the Fish/Hunt license photo you posted. It may be enough. I'll do some research online and see if I can find the street name and number as well.

Alan WAS a good choice he whined the least on camera. When he had nothing to record he just did not record anything. What a concept. I overhear my daughter watching that Kardashinan show, If a person wanted to listen to whining they could watch that, LOL. Or that CBS so called Survivor show, OMG just shoot me now.