Living Off The Land Permanently

speaking from personall experience i would choose flagstaff arizona.

as a us citizen u have the right to live in the national forest for 30 days at a time then must move for 15 days. flag staff has two forest the coconinno and the kiabab i lived in my truck w/ a camper on the back if a ranger sees you emphasis on if then your time starts then just go across town to the differnt national forest plus you are close to town for day labor and food kitchens also if you go deeper i forest most likely never be seen even if you do have a fire who cares it's a forest lots of ppl camp.

now if you are looking to set up camp/ permanete shelter look at idaho/sawtooth mountains or alaska.

go to www.aloneinthewildernes.com see what richard prenoke did my hero.

Yes, it is possible though you have to be careful not becoming an ecological disaster. It can take a fair amount of natural resources to support a person in the wild.

I suggest making a number of low-key debris huts throughout the forest, staying in each for only a week or less before moving on. Cycle though them. Do some fishing in each area, a little trapping, then move on. In that way you don't make it too obvious someone is actually living for the long term in any one spot and you give the wildlife a chance to make a comeback while you are away.

The trapping part is problematic, though. People can find your traps and you will need a permit - without which you may find yourself a hunted man.

I used to live in Alaska and there are people that live like that up there. I didn’t know all the laws but I know there’s ways to legally do that.

www.aloneinthewilderness.com
also look at timothy treadwell

lots of ppl just disappear up there. Idaho is a great place to just dissapear.actually that just reminded me of a website type in how to disappear see what you get.

i just googled squatters rights in alaska and also how to live off the land in alsaka.. interestingly enough only 20% of alsaka is populated and allot of empty cabins along the coast line doubt you would get arrested for living in one, but with all that unused country i suppose one could build a shelter under the brush and trees and never be bothered again thou if you do that write a daily journel so if something happens we can read your travels and on the other hand if ya do it for a few yrs it would make a great book to read.


always be prepared

You could probably go years without seeing another human up there if you wanted to. You can still get free or really cheap land in Alaska you know.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homes...t-Program.aspx

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green...01/Alaska.aspx

It might be difficult to subsist for long periods of time with zero resupply. The ideal location would have towns within a day's walking distance and enough influx of tourists so that a new face in town is not even noticed.

In many rural areas if you walk into town once every couple of months the locals are going to put 2 and 2 together and figure you are living out in the woods. They will wonder what you are up to and chances are someone is going to get curious and look you up.

that's the beauty of flagstaff lot's of tourists and ppl staying short times there hard to get noticed..

buy the book best flagstaff day hikes, gives you tons of area to get lost in.

i lived off the land there for three months in the mid 90's hiding out, you can build shelters in the canyons out of small boulders around a lean to and cover you fire very well as long as it is an indian fire and not a white mans fire..

always be prepared.

Wow i really hope this dream of yours works out for you! Thats always been my "plan b" if things dont work out...

I concur about Flagstaff. It's really a gorgeous location that seems to be busy almost year-round. A 2nd choice would be Gatlinburg, TN. It's like a Flagstaff of the South.

Otay with the attitude you have now you won't last long in the wilderness. Already you're talking about getting back to town. Start out like wareagle and live off the land for 3 months, then take it from there. Good luck living your dream.

to survive , in Alaska or Oregen can be done, but it is cold and wet,
a growing season is short, and big brother is way to close for comfort , it has good game hunting and nice views, for sure. i dont understand why anyone would stay in the USA to survive, there are way to many people. with the fat quad hunters, zooming from one peak to another. and helicopters over head, just looking around. there really is no where up there to hide. im sure there are hiding spots. but not enof.. but Brazil,, now we are talking!

nice links,, thanks

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Originally Posted by jose lobo

to survive , in Alaska or Oregen can be done, but it is cold and wet,
a growing season is short, and big brother is way to close for comfort , it has good game hunting and nice views, for sure. i dont understand why anyone would stay in the USA to survive, there are way to many people. with the fat quad hunters, zooming from one peak to another. and helicopters over head, just looking around. there really is no where up there to hide. im sure there are hiding spots. but not enof.. but Brazil,, now we are talking!

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There’s lots of uninhabited land in AK, land you can disappear in, plenty of places to hide. Places where you can’t hear or see any sign of humanity or people. There are not even a lot of roads in Alaska. It depends on where in AK you are.

As far as cold and wet goes Alaska’s a big place and it has many climates, some parts are really dry especially up north. If you’re taking about southeast AK like Ketchikan well the weather is very wet since it is a temperate rainforest and the winter temperatures average in the 30's which for a temperate zone that far north is pretty reasonable. The growing season is short but some things thrive up there like berries and rhubarb for example.

crash, you have a point about gatlinburg beautiful area i only know what i saw of it for a week so not much experience like flagstaff.

corndog, i would not say he has a defeatist attitude. even my uncle who trapped and lived off the land up where i have now taken over would walk across the ice or paddle the 20 miles to the main road the walk 6 miles to town once a month to resupply with the basics.

when i lived in flagstaff, there was lots of times that i would work day labor jobs for cash eat at a church then go back to the bush some times i would spend a week near town then other times go deep country.

if you cannot farm then you will need to resupply. black barts truck stop is a good place to shower and shave then watch some tv catch up then disappear again. if i had to hide out again that's a good choice. not my first anymore but a good one nonetheless..

always be prepared..

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Originally Posted by Otay

Any idea of the best "stealthy" shelter to make? I like the idea of flagstaff or at least some place like it, where I would go unnoticed when I came into town to get some things. I'd like to make some sort of long term shelter with a fire pit inside that would be hard to notice even if you were standing right next to it. Am I being unrealistic?

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Like I wrote, a debris hut would do nicely and you can just about walk on top of it without knowing it is there. Neophytes would think "log cabin". This is wrong - stick out like a sore thumb from the ground or in the air.

Head up into Northern Montana or Western Canada, Alaska would be great too, just go way out and I mean waaaay out and build a small cabin. Dig down bout a foot or two and then log it up, will take some time but use debris hut till finished. The most that will happen iis they ask you to move. Nothing is impossible, only our mind is limited to what we think we can do. Once there hunt for food (deer, elk, moose, rabbit, squirrel, beaver, ect.) but ya gotta know how to clean them, cook them, preserve them, so ya need a storage shed (or smoke house or freezer in the winter, and salt for preserving), for long term (life) living ya gonna need cookware, cast iron skillets, and a big cast iron pan, bags for storing and etc. It can be done but is very hard to just walk off and do. Take plenty of preperation time. It was done along time ago so it can be done now with the preperations.

Oxbow Mountains.

There in with the Montana beartooth mnts. and bitterroot mnts.

Part of the rockies

Pack horse, after arriving I'd sell everything I didn't need (car and what nots) take that money and get my pack hores and supplies (take some good wilderness survival books along) and trek out till I lost everyone, more than twenty miles.
NOTE OF CAUTION*** Otay you need to be a very experienced survivalist to attempt this knd of living, it will be rough, I mean stomach pain hunger dying in the wilderness rough, if you fail.

If you got the money Tom Brown Jr. has a school in New Jersey, called Tracker school and several really good books. I'd try his classes they are really great.

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Originally Posted by Otay

at least a year to 5 years maybe more but definately not less that I do this. I want to get some real hands on training in tanning, butchering, and maybe meet up with a native american who can make clothes out of hides, and of course immersing myself in survival knowledge.

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that sounds a lot more realistic than some of what I've read on here. I'd also suggest to anyone trying this, read up on log home building. It looks real sexy in the movies, but most log cabins over the last couple of centuries...quite a bit draftier. There's some serious learning attached to doing a good job and some modern day improvements to the construction process that are worth learning. There's plenty of info out there on all of these subjects.

for a nice warm shelter, that last about a year, and is easy to build ,, i once dragged 150 bails of hay into BLM,
stack them into a 2 room form, with a mud room,,,,
put a lot of poles on the roof at an angle, and covered them with plastic,, then took about 5 bails, open them up and though them all on the plastic roof, then thought a camo tarp over the whole thing,, drag a small pot belly up there, and enjoyed a warm home for about 9 months,, then i pulled off the plastic ,, pushed all th bails into the center, and lite then up for a nice big bon fire, not to hard to clean up.

Have you ever notated that people very seldom move very far off a trail when they go out for a hike you can be right under their nose and no one would see you IF you look like you fit in.. when you go to town be clean very clean!!!

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Originally Posted by Smok

Have you ever notated that people very seldom move very far off a trail when they go out for a hike you can be right under their nose and no one would see you IF you look like you fit in.. when you go to town be clean very clean!!!

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Yeah, that's why I keep that squirrel outfit handy. I slip that on and it fools them everytime. If some kid points out the six foot squirrel to his parents, I just roar and they run away crying...that works too.

I like to dress as a giant 6'4" tall skunk and go around farting if someone notices :D keeps the bad element away... lol... :D

i am having such a hard time finding a place to go practice! everything is very far possible not even in my state. i dont know what to do. its like i stay here, or a take a deep end plunge across the country into the wild, which is the only route considering im ****ing done with society

It looks like you are going from one extreme to the next. You don't have to go clear across the country to hit mountains, you have them about 6 hours away. They are called the Appalachian mountains and many of us here live at the base of them.

Funny, looking at the "where ya from" thread, alot of us foothill Appalachian dwellers here, running right up from South to North.

In S. Ga. there are a few Nat'l forests that you can venture into. You don't have to go deep into the swamps either.

Here are 3 National forests in Florida, take your pick. http://goflorida.about.com/od/florid...al_Forests.htm

There's a lot you can learn from experienced people in these forums partner, and you seem to be soaking it up pretty fast too, but there's one thing I think you need to learn and the only place you're going to pick it up is out there in the bush....patience.

I can certainly appreciate your point of view about having had enough of "society", but know what? It isn't going to get that much worse or totally collapse in the next little while. Keep practicing where you're practicing, make longer trips out of it, when it's time for you to make your move, whether it's the Rockies or the Appalachians or anywhere else, you'll know and you'll be ready.

And if you think Mother Earth and her minions won't teach you patience, try sitting on the edge of a half frozen swamp just after a nice October rain waiting for a moose to peek out from behind a bush, knowing that getting that shot is esential to having meat for the winter. Better not have shaking hands when you squeeze that trigger too....

You'll get there and it'll have been worth the "wait".

national forests are highly regulated. if i go into there with weapons and fire? free ticket rto prison. ive explored ALL the woods in my area and most of the time i have run into trouble or WILL soon. all maintained by govt or state people

So honestly, where are you going to go out west? It's all gov. land. If you had friends with private land, you would be there already.

On one thread you talk bad about those who hunt, the next thread you don't want to go to a Fla. national forest because you want to shoot your pee shooter.

If you had a hunting license, then you could legally take game with a variety of firearms or traps during the regulated seasons. That is what most of us do.

You seem to throw up barriers all over the place.

Primitive living be it for survival or for a hobby takes work. To me, it seems that you just keep coming up with excuses.

Guess, I'm just being an as shole again.

No FVR I get the same-thing from explodingearther too wishy washy ... explodingearther you need to stop and rethink what you plan to do.. do not just give up on this world and go live in the hills come and go with 1 or 2 of us . This e-mail is not enough we well help teach you but for now on going off to live by your self you need some teaching OK ????:rolleyes:

FLORIDA: Trespass while in possession of a firearm is a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine up to $5,000. A person who knowingly propels or causes to be propelled any potentially lethal projectile over or across private land without authorization also commits felony trespass. A potentially lethal projectile includes any projectile launched from any firearm, bow, crossbow or similar tensile device.

not to mention arson.

Florida has over 150 public hunting areas. Of that, over 70 have camping areas. Those camping areas vary, but there are some that allow camping throughout the area, or in the designated camping spots.

I live across the street from a WMA in Ga. Right now, deer season is in throughout the state, yet at the WMA the deer season is only two times, 4 days each. The rest of the time it is small game season.

Now, I hate this, but it's the way it is. I can walk over there and and hunt small game and hogs and camp if I want to. They are not allowing fires right now as the draught has put the kybosh on that.

There is a year round trout stream in the WMA. I want to trap or spear fish, but alas, the regs say that is illegal. So, I walk back and find pools that hold fish. I study how I can isolate the pool so that if I needed to spear a fish, I could. Then I throw a little spoon in the pool and coax one into biting. Then I will make a little fire (when allowed) and cook it right up.

Survival skills are what "you" make of them. Unfortunately, in this day and age, we must follow gov. regs even though we may not agree with them. The days of walking off into the wild and doing what you want are basically over. Oh, you can do it, you will be breaking fed. laws and like those who have done this, you will either be hunted down and taken to jail or killed in a shoot out in some remote hill country somewhere.

Survival is knowing your environment and determining what you can and can not do in that environment to survive.

Most National Forest land is wide open for hunting and camping with in the laws for game and respect for fire. Here in WV there are plenty of wilderness and national forest that are always open.
Get out in them everglades look for some clubs get a canoe for your first set of outings you can carry more stuff until you can refine your skills. (Just do it.)

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Originally Posted by HOP

Get out in them everglades look for some clubs get a canoe for your first set of outings you can carry more stuff until you can refine your skills. (Just do it.)

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That's what I'm trying to tell you too double e, all the things you want to charge off and do, you're not near ready and yet you don't seem to want to take the steps to prepare yourself.

Guns? Are you trained? Have you ever shot a live animal? It looks a lot easier on video than it is, all those hunting/shooting videos are edited to not show you all the things that can go wrong.

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Originally Posted by trax

That's what I'm trying to tell you too double e, all the things you want to charge off and do, you're not near ready and yet you don't seem to want to take the steps to prepare yourself.
Guns? Are you trained? Have you ever shot a live animal? It looks a lot easier on video than it is, all those hunting/shooting videos are edited to not show you all the things that can go wrong.

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Not to mention edited to fit a time frame, and skinning an animal the first time can tricky, nix the gun thing too many people depending on guns, do it easy with a knife and your kit and just go out and keep trying till you get it, if I had the everglades here I'd be gone for days and wouldn't take a gun.
As said: Just go do it. Things take time to learn but you can't learn until you try, and failing is not failure if you learn from the mistake.

Those videos, LOL.

They don't show the work, after the shot.

Tracking - if needed.
Fiel dressing - aka gutting.
Skinning - if needed.
Butchering - the easy way.
Transporting - I wonder what so and so is doing today, this here hog looks alot bigger now.