Self-defense and security questions.....

First of all, my upcoming question is not an inmature question or one of violent purposes. I do not own a gun. Im pretty much in-expirienced with knife combat (own a Ka-bar though). But my question is, would a 60#, 50 inch self bow be effective for combat in terms of self-defense within my own home? Would it have enough power to knock down a human within a 20 foot distance? I own many handmade bows that are very short and compact (went Deer hunting this season with them). The arrows are 24" Dogwood shafts with 1 1/2 long flint points (knapped by me). Since this question basically is pertaining to survival and keeping myself alive say a burgular broke in, I think it's fairly appropriate. Im very accurate with my weapons and can nock another arrow pretty quickly, and im used to manuvering in tight spots becuase I don't use tree stands. I think many of people fail to believe the raw power and force an arrow delivers to a target. What do you guys think?? Does a 60 pound bow have enough force to knock a human to the ground for self-defense purposes?

Shoot them in the privates...I bet that would be effective.

Good advice, but im talking about a chest shot. My arrows penetrate a Deer 8-10 inches at 30 foot ranges, so I would assume they would go deeper into a human, if not completely through.

It would surely do damage to anyone you hit with it but the fact is there are much more effective weapons for self-defense in the home. Number 1 being a firearm. Shotguns are excellent for home defense. They are legal everywhere and you don't have to be a marksman to use it effectively. If there were no alternatives, I suppose the bow is better than nothing but against someone armed with a gun the bow is not much use. Even if you hit the intruder with an arrow, chances are he will live long enough to blow you away. and if there are more than one attacker you are in big trouble.

In my opinion, a bow is too bulky and takes too long to make ready for a shot (epecially under tense situations). If you do not want to keep a pistol in the home, get a 12 gauge shotgun. Some are made with short barrels and short stocks for home defense. I myself have handguns with extra mags that stay loaded and accesable, shotguns with plenty ammo, and a plan to protect my family and escape the house if needed.

You do what is necessary with whatever you are comfortable with. Shotguns are very effective. A bow will work, so will a cast iron frying pan. Determine your mindset and what
you would actually use on another human. It's messy, scary and you will be treated like a criminal, almost always. Killing the "armed" person(they are always armed) if you are like most civilized people will mess with your head for a long long time. The only thing I could give you is the T shirt, can't get rid of the other two.

Any form of self defence is better than no self defence at all.
Effective or not, or you can just lay down and die.

for self-defense, a Bow has a number of limitations when using it inside the home: close quarters, maneuverability in hallways or incramped positions/spaces, using it in darkness, speed in reloading... and deterrence. Having been trained in unarmed combat against a person with a weapon, I would go up against someone with a bow far more readily than I would against someone with a knife; and a knife is fairly easy to go up against...

unless you've been trained to fight with a knife. Using knives as a defense weapon effectively requires some training, or - at the least - some practice.

For an "un-trained" person, a pump shotgun, with the shortest legal length barrel, is the best weapon to have for self-defense inside the home. However, use either a custom load or #2 or #4 shot... larger shot or slugs have the tendency to over-penetrate in close quarters. And the "intimidation factor" of a pump shotgun is, in my opinion, higher than any other weapon.

Using weapons for self-defense, especially in the home, is best after having had some training. As pointed out above, a bow is better than having nothing... although a typical home is chock-full of "make-do" weapons... you can use a number of items in the home for self-defense... using everything from sheets and pillows, to shoes, statues, baseball bats, and much more... but the key is preparation, practice, fore-thought, and training.

One thing you can do is set up several archery targets inside the home and see how that works out... one warning though... an arrow will penetrate sheet-rock easily... so don't miss your taget.

oh... one more thought... an arrow shot deer rarely drops to the ground immediately; same thing - or more so for a human; were I to use a bow against a human, I'd go for a face or throat shot... which is very difficult to do in a home defense situation, especially at night.

Nothing smaller then a .50 Cal MG rd will KNOCK DOWN a human. Some human will fall down when shot because they think they should.

In a recent case of a Boulder City NV police officer he was shot with a small .380 Auto that missed him but hit his handcuff case and he was "knocked" off his feet. Another Boulder City NV police officer also answering the call shot the shooter and he was DRT

On the other side

There is documented case of a Missouri Highway Patrolman that was shot in the heart, he chased the bad guy up three flights of stairs and killed him on the 3rd floor before succumbing to his own wound.

The corner stated the Highway Patrolman was technically dead when he was first shot.

The only sure area is:

A hit to the lower part of the brain either from the side, from the rear, or if you go for the frontal shot it will have to be in a triangle formed between the upper lip and the bridge of the nose.

A hit in this area will disrupt the nervous system and cause the human to fall down.

Jericho - at 15 years old, I assume that you are still living with your parents. Are you in Navy housing?

No, I don't live in Navy Housing anymore. My dads out in Iraq, so I just wanted to make sure my sister and mother are safe.......turning 16 in 1 month though.

I can appreciate what you are concerned about. The reason I asked about on base housing was to try and understand what threats you were concerned with. To answer your original question - I think you already did as part of your first post. Sure it's powerful enough. A bow would be a bit cumbersome to use inside though. I think that with a goal of helping to protect your sis, prevention will probably be your most productive focus of your energies. Lights on motion sensors, positive locks on doors, keeping shrubs near windows cut back so a potential intruder can't hide behind them. I know you said that this was a new duty station for your dad, so I'm assuming it's a rental. These are things that your mom, with your help can probably press the landlord into doing.

I would say if your a good shot with your bow keep it handy if you have no gun but also keep knife hawk any thing you know how to use.a short bow in the house can and will work and if they don't see you they will not know the arrow is coming and if they do see you be ready with your knife or hawk

BTW most kevlar that will stop a bullet will not stop a hunting arrow, FWIW a insert plate will stop both

I agree with wildography about the shogun, but 7.5 shot at 20 feet (the length across a room) will barely spread more than the width of a human torso. and the chances of 7.5 shot penetrating 2 sheets of drywall is almost nil from that distance. Besides the sound of a pump shotgun being racked is a pretty good deterent in it self.

I must disagree with the statement that a knife is fairly easy to go up against. Unless you are armed with a gun, it is far, far from easy. In 25 years working in prison I have been involved in altercations with knife-wielding inmates both when I was unarmed and when I had a baton. I am a well-trained person and have been a martial arts teacher as well as unarmed defensive tactics instructor and I always got cut and am lucky to be alive. I think it is a dangerous thing to tell people it is easy to defend yourself against a knife. it is not, and my best advice for anyone who is unarmed and must face someone with a knife is to run like hell if possible. I would. If you cannot run, then concentrate on not getting killed, because you will almost surely get hurt.

1st rule of knife fighting : be prepared to get cut. as it will happen

2nd rule of knife fighting: Make sure the fight you are in IS a knife fight!! Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!!

P.S. I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE WILL BE NO KNIFE FIGHTS IN MY HOUSE!!!

I dont think an arrow will knock down a man.An axe handle will but you have to be close.I have several bows and would grab a knife,club or spear first.If you miss with the arrow your screwed.Personally I have a 12 guage for home defence.Home invations are very rare though,when someones home.Its much easier for a thief to case the place and wait till everyones gone.

Noone wins in a knife fight! As to birnging a knife to a gun fight.... depends on the distance between us and wether or not the gun is already drawn.
If it a choice between being good or lucky i'll choose lucky every time! You can be the best there is and the bad guy only has to get lucky once and then your done!

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Originally Posted by SARKY

Noone wins in a knife fight! As to birnging a knife to a gun fight.... depends on the distance between us and wether or not the gun is already drawn.
If it a choice between being good or lucky i'll choose lucky every time! You can be the best there is and the bad guy only has to get lucky once and then your done!

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I had to add a little. I have used, seen used, seen results but I have never seen or been in a face to face knife fight. If I use one ever again you will have your back to me, facing me you won't see it. I will use anything against one. I never have just one. No way even at my age you will even get close to disarming me, been tried. I will get out of Dodge if I don't have distance and a decent firearm. Consider that every person you ever face is tougher, meaner and more dangerous than you are and you will be right more times than not. I burnt the T shirt but still remember the first two.:tongue_smilie:

well the answer would certainly depend on your proficiency with a bow, but first, i feel that the defensive edge you have is far better than the one you do not. e.g. it's better to injure a dangerous intruder at 10-20' than at 3', especially if they are not likely to be disarmed/incapacitated instantly.

i would personally rather face an armed home invader with a bow than with my hands, or a knife if those where my best choices and the situation demanded immediate action.

one benefit at least to defending yourself with a bow is that it is a weapon an attacker is less likely to use on you if he/she gets it away from you. imagine folding his kneecap back with a stomp kick while he's fumbling around trying to nock an arrow, a manuveure you may have practiced to the point of reflex.

aye, when it comes to self-defence, you use whatever you have. The BEST way to prepare for self-defence is forethought, practice, and training. Another thought - do not look at movies or tv for learning self-defense, its all choreographed and practiced.

Main thing to remember, for self-defence, is that there are no rules. Were I to use a knife in self-defense, some of my primary "targets" that I would focus on would be taking out the eyes, the throat (with a stab, then slash), the achilles' tendon, or the wrists. The stomach, chest, arms, groin are too easy to defend.

Same thing with other weapons... my "credo" is: if they can't stand, if they can't breath, if they can't see, then they can't fight. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule... so try to stick with my favorite Sun Tzu saying: "the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought". (that means: win the battle without having to fight)

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"the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought"

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some of the best advice in this thread.

i'm ready to defend my home against intruders, but i don't forsee the problem arising, and moreover, keep myself away from conflict at almost all times.

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Originally Posted by chiangmaimav

I must disagree with the statement that a knife is fairly easy to go up against. Unless you are armed with a gun, it is far, far from easy. In 25 years working in prison I have been involved in altercations with knife-wielding inmates both when I was unarmed and when I had a baton. I am a well-trained person and have been a martial arts teacher as well as unarmed defensive tactics instructor and I always got cut and am lucky to be alive. I think it is a dangerous thing to tell people it is easy to defend yourself against a knife. it is not, and my best advice for anyone who is unarmed and must face someone with a knife is to run like hell if possible. I would. If you cannot run, then concentrate on not getting killed, because you will almost surely get hurt.

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Good point, Chiangmaimav... I stand corrected; I should have clarified. ANY type of fighting, with any chance of winning requires training, practice, and forethought. With the use of any weapon, even a rock, you should be competent in its use before trying to use it for self-defence. So, if you are going up against a person that is trained/practiced in the use of weapons, the difficulty of prevailing is much harder. You can have a thousand dollar custom made combat, home-defense shotgun/knife/handgun/sword/bow, but if you are not competent in its use, it could be more dangerous to you or to other family members than it is to the "home invader". And, as Chiangmaiav said, in a fight in which someone is trying to hurt/kill you, you will likely get hurt/cut/etc... so be prepared mentally to survive however you can... even if that means running away or leaving the other person disabled for life... or dead.

The bow is a formidable weapon and has been for hundreds if not thousands of years man or otherwise it will kill in experienced hands

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Originally Posted by wildography

aye, when it comes to self-defence, you use whatever you have. The BEST way to prepare for self-defence is forethought, practice, and training. Another thought - do not look at movies or tv for learning self-defense, its all choreographed and practiced.

Main thing to remember, for self-defence, is that there are no rules. Were I to use a knife in self-defense, some of my primary "targets" that I would focus on would be taking out the eyes, the throat (with a stab, then slash), the achilles' tendon, or the wrists. The stomach, chest, arms, groin are too easy to defend.

Same thing with other weapons... my "credo" is: if they can't stand, if they can't breath, if they can't see, then they can't fight. Of course, there are always exceptions to any rule... so try to stick with my favorite Sun Tzu saying: "the greatest battle ever won, is the one that is never fought". (that means: win the battle without having to fight)

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That sounds awful good. You can talk the talk but have you ever walked the real walk? Just curious, most men on here just had a little government training, free of charge and don't hardly know how to salute.:tongue_smilie: I am kinda curious about if you have time to think or act on reflex.

i react better by reflex. i'm otherwise an overthinker by nature.

Well, my input is that use whatever you are good with. A relatively silent weapon is better than a gunshot when there are multiple targets in the house. If you are a good shot with it, then use it, but just do not miss. It is easy to say that you will hit your target, but when the andrenaline is flowing and all that its not as easy as you think. Thats why most people use shotguns for self defense, I personally have a M1911 loaded with HPs ready, but I use it because I am proficient with it.

There are disadvantages with every weapon known to man in a CQB situation, so the best thing I can tell you is to choose what you know how to use, be it a bow, shotgun, pistol, or knife.

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Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

That sounds awful good. You can talk the talk but have you ever walked the real walk? Just curious, most men on here just had a little government training, free of charge and don't hardly know how to salute.:tongue_smilie: I am kinda curious about if you have time to think or act on reflex.

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LOL... yah... security specialist in the U.S.A.F for 4 years; about 6 more years of security employment with more training; plus have known a few guys over the years that have taught me some things... plus, I read, and think, alot.

I first realized how much training that I have had when I worked security at a shopping mall. I was trying to get four gang members (ages 18-22) to leave the mall because they were raising hell. At about the same time that my brain told me that one of the guys (in front of me) was swinging at me, I saw a fist come flying up out of the corner of my eye.

That fist (that I saw out of the corner of my eye) was my left hand coming up to hit the guy with a back-fist, while my right hand was coming up to back-fist another guy charging at me. Two of the guys ended up hitting the ground and the other two guys changed their mind. And, yup... they all went to jail that night.

But I've never forgotten about how I didn't "realize" I was in a fight until my fist was already on its way to hitting a guy.

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

One of my "things" is that I try to learn from anyone about anything.

They say that an attacker at 21 feet away with a knife is a threat to your life. You would be surprised how fast a person can cover 21 feet. If he's already running, you better be be fast at whatever decision you make!! You will not have time to change your mind either, so be ready to go through with whatever you decide to do.

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Originally Posted by wildography

LOL... yah... security specialist in the U.S.A.F for 4 years; about 6 more years of security employment with more training; plus have known a few guys over the years that have taught me some things... plus, I read, and think, alot.

I first realized how much training that I have had when I worked security at a shopping mall. I was trying to get four gang members (ages 18-22) to leave the mall because they were raising hell. At about the same time that my brain told me that one of the guys (in front of me) was swinging at me, I saw a fist come flying up out of the corner of my eye.

That fist (that I saw out of the corner of my eye) was my left hand coming up to hit the guy with a back-fist, while my right hand was coming up to back-fist another guy charging at me. Two of the guys ended up hitting the ground and the other two guys changed their mind. And, yup... they all went to jail that night.

But I've never forgotten about how I didn't "realize" I was in a fight until my fist was already on its way to hitting a guy.

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

One of my "things" is that I try to learn from anyone about anything.

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:)Glad you verified that. You would be surprised at the number of "mall masters" that would hurt themselves. Welcome aboard and that was the right attitude and answer I wanted to hear. Absolutely no insult intended I have just heard enough war stories that didn't ring true.

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Originally Posted by Canid

I react better by reflex. i'm otherwise an overthinker by nature.

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I'll have to think about that.

Wildlife- I'll never forget the time I saw two feet flying through the air. It took a minute to realize they were mine and even then I didn't understand how quickly I could react when I stepped on those icy steps. Laying flat of my back at the bottom of the stairs I realized just how pitifully slow I am.

Catfish - I'll bet FVR would never cover those 21 feet. His knife might but he won't! Yikes......

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Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot

I have just heard enough war stories that didn't ring true.

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lol. haven't we all...

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Originally Posted by wildography

So, when I give advice on this forum, I try to know what I'm talking about... and - PLEASE! - if ANYONE sees something wrong with ANY thing that I write, please let me know (but try to be at least a little polite about it!).

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HA! Polite? You been readin the other threads around here brother? What makes you special?? PO-LITE..hmmph:lol: :lol: :lol:

actually folks, maybe this wildography guy is on to something...polite huh??

pfffffffttt... polite is for pansies and pussies. I don't have petals or a furry tail.

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Originally Posted by catfish10101

They say that an attacker at 21 feet away with a knife is a threat to your life. You would be surprised how fast a person can cover 21 feet.

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Amen to that! 21 feet has also been used by courts in self-defense cases (including guns in homes) to determine if someone should have been considered a real threat.

Using a bow can kill a man, but so can a .22 -- it's all in where it hits. Others have already covered the issue of "use what you have" and "practice what you have" but do remember to be realistic in your practice. Get used to shooting with your fingers (sounds silly perhaps but many shooters use a release), for example.

Also, it's not clear if you were talking recurve or compound (perhaps I missed it). The latter has huge advantage of compactness and power. And, while I've never heard about a "self-defense" arrow tip, there is no question a compound bow launched broadhead will penetrate a man -- seen them go through large deer at greater than 40 yards. Probably won't have any trouble following the blood trail either!

Jericho, great to hear you thinking about taking care of those around you! Way to man up -- just be wise about it and you'll keep everyone safe.

Don't forget the cheaper things you can get that are readily made into weapons, like a good machete or hatchet you can get at a good hardware store. Since you make flint arrowheads, you might want to try a flint knife; they can be made sharper than razors if you shave off thin enough flakes.

Don't discount anything you have as a weapon if you need it to be. I've seen some people get pretty messed up by one guy with a 22oz framing hammer. Just check out what's available, I have a feeling you'll do good with whatever you get ahold of if you have to.

when i dropped my bike in san francisco, i had no clear idea i was going down until i was picking myself up off the ground. i've never had anything on foot happen to me as fast as an auto accident.

People should realize that there is a difference between "killing" and "stopping" in an attack.
Even a "dead man can get you.