extreme cold camping

so who here sleeps out in the cold -20 to -30 c or at least -0 F and below, what sort of system do you use, i have been using my army issue mummy bag slipped inside my bivy sac and a poly pad, maybe i'm getting old but can't stand the mummy bag anymore i like to strecth out been tossing and turning not getting much sleep also don't like wearing a touqe(hat) when sleeping either so have been just pulling my hoody over my head been a little chilly feet mostly cold all night, but i want to find a better system. a couple of nights w/o sleep is no big deal but it will wear on you when trying to perfrom tasks during the day, and i am also going fireless so do not include that heat in your comments and suggestions.
thanks, WE

My cold weather gear is long gone. Used to use a Slumberjack -40 bag. Big rectangle thing, not a mummy. Coldest I camped in was -25 F, was toasty warm. Nice thing about that bag was that there was plenty of room at the bottom for clothes so I could get dressed before I unzipped the bag.

crash how much weight and bulkiness?

Gosh, it's bee a lot of years since I had it. If I remember it had a "qualofil" (or something like that) lining. It was heavier and bulkier than a lot of back packing bags, but that's what I used it for. I had a huge Kelty external frame pack and it fit on the frame just fine.

Hey ware, is that the MSS you use? green bag - black bag - bivvy sac? How does the cinching affect you if it is?

Oh right, back to the question. I use the MSS and a Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest Deluxe pad. I took this down to 10F last night. Before that it was lean-to and parallel fire. I'm glad my camp prep time has dropped 99%, lol

I have seen one of these, never slept in it, but looked super warm and rugged. The big drawback is the weight
http://ostromoutdoors.com/alaskan-95-p-193.html

It all rolls up into a slick bed roll with a very durable outer shell.

I have done -33* F for a few days (three days & two nights), one problem is you don't have a third option, You are either in your bag for 18 hours per day, or actively working generating heat. Mostly it is a boring existence, and not fun. You tend to avoid liquids, as you don't want to have to get out of that bag to pee every three hours at -30* below. Down or polyester Booties are a sweet blessing.

A normally active person goes crazy trapped in a sleeping bag for days.

hopeak- had to pee real bad the other night right about 2am waited till about 6 then got out in the cold
mitch -green bag, can't recollect name of my bivy right now but to me it does not have a big enough opening hard to slide my 6'4" 226lb frame into it also i was about 180lbs using that bag before hard to squezze my shoulders into it now. had hard time to zip up past my shoulders so that probably let in some cold that is why i'm trying to figure a different system, next weekends bivy will be a snow trench but also keep in mind no fires

There is no standard for rating sleeping bags. When they say it is rated down to -?? What does that mean........? Really. This the theory that we created. The rating means that there is a 51% chance you will "live" though the night at that rating. It should not be implied or assumed that you will be comfortable, just 51% chance of living. There is also a 49% chance you will die.

One should not confuse taking his house temperature bag, all preheated out on the deck at -30* below for the night, with 72 hours of cold soak, where it is -30* at night for 17 hours, and warms to -21* during the day.

As far as I know Woods Tent and Robe Company made the warmest bags, but they are heavy, huge and $800.00 If I had to live in a unheated environment, I would choose the Woods 5 Star bag, and have a lot of 3# bags to use as liners. Then you have the issue of what to do with your day clothes. You would be dead meat, if a fox ran off with your mittens in the night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

hopeak- had to pee real bad the other night right about 2am waited till about 6 then got out in the cold
mitch -green bag, can't recollect name of my bivy right now but to me it does not have a big enough opening hard to slide my 6'4" 226lb frame into it also i was about 180lbs using that bag before hard to squezze my shoulders into it now. had hard time to zip up past my shoulders so that probably let in some cold that is why i'm trying to figure a different system, next weekends bivy will be a snow trench but also keep in mind no fires

---

Enjoy your youth, at some point you need to pee every 90 minutes or less. Old age sucks.

Today is my birthday....and I think in 10 years forward, I will look fondly on how my body worked today.

I've been out in -50 during a clod weather class in Maine. I had a big bulky LLBean bag that we were testing for them. Along with that I had my therma rest Camp rest (2 inches thick) I was also in a lean to with pine boughs under me and snow loosely tossed on the lean to for insulation. During the week we (me and the students) improved the shelter to enclose half of the open end, added a fire outside and a reflector. Actually got it up to +70 drgrees in the shelter.

I camp out fairly often below zero, -30F is the coldest I've camped. I have a few different systems. What I use most frequently, in situations like your describing is my Wiggy's Antartica -60 sleeping bag- Size XL and an OR Bivy bag. The OR Bivy I have has the head hoop, and is some what of a one man tent, more than just a sleeping bag cover. For a ground pad I use a Paco Pad- size Grande. This system is very nice, and warm for me. It is a modified mummy design bag, and could be a little roomier, but overall, I sleep awesome in it. I also use a hoody sweatshirt- not a stocking cap. Stocking caps always fall of. The hoody stays on.

To pee, I just unzip the sleeping bag- hang it off the side, slide it into an old Nalgene bottle and filler up, making sure to shake well.

I've mentioned before the minus 40 Northface bag I bought that was so warm I couldn't sleep in it at minus 30. My wife now uses it as a summer bag (she never sleeps out in spring, autumn or winter).

I now use a down comforter (no bag) with a Hudson's Bay blanket sewn to it and a thick self inflating mat that I purchased at Gander Mountain. I sometimes use a short (six inch legs) cot if I'm using a toboggan to haul my gear. I do have a titanium wood stove (eight pounds) and highly recommend them if you are doing winter camping.

You can carry a lot more gear in the winter - using a toboggan. I have a couple of nice wood toboggans, but they are hard to transport. Here is a good alternative - as it rolls up for transport:

http://www.blackriversleds.com/index...d=52&Itemid=84

yup RBB i just got an otter sled last month works great, but as i said i am doin all this sans fire- and i am restricted on my gear this year, no more survival gear(see resolutions thread) so i am going with what me gots

I bought one of those plastic bottle urinals from Gander Mountain for tree stand hunting and it works good in the tent when its too cold to venture out.Just zip down the bag and lay on your side.The large opening is very accomodating,and you stay warm through the natural process.

so you carry an extra peice of gear just to pee in? i can see liver eating johnson rolling over in his grave as we speak

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

so you carry an extra peice of gear just to pee in? i can see liver eating johnson rolling over in his grave as we speak

---

I'm betting you'd be glad he bought it if'n you ever walked under his tree stand when he had the urge.:D

Well ziplocks work in a pinch but extreme care should be taken.So yes I do carry it on hunting excursions.Empty it weighs nothing and has a handle that ties easily to my climber.

what there are trees in florida?:eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wareagle69

what there are trees in florida?:eek:

---

Yup. Some even have coconuts on them.;)

WE, I hope that you do bring some fire making items with you as a back up.....

Sleeping in the cold...I have done it a few times....stayed awake most of the time no matter the depth of the degree below -20c./-45c
never had a decent sleeping bag....just whatever I could get and layer it with whatever I could stuff inside with me....
put up a wind break.....
lots of pine boughs on top but mostly on bottom

but no fire??????? on purpose??????

Just endure...like Les, no food just endures

Learn to fabricate a fire bow..............

When I was in the Navy in the 69-73, I went to Iceland for a year, and then when my orders came up, I put down any place south, and got orders to then Navy squadron VXE-6, which supported the National Science Foundation, in Antarctica. I am including the link to an information page that may have some information on the sleeping systems that the off site parties would use. I haven't checked them all, but there is plenty of cold weather information available.http://www.usap.gov/travelAndDeploym...ler.cfm?id=540

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tsitenha

WE, I hope that you do bring some fire making items with you as a back up.....

Sleeping in the cold...I have done it a few times....stayed awake most of the time no matter the depth of the degree below -20c./-45c
never had a decent sleeping bag....just whatever I could get and layer it with whatever I could stuff inside with me....
put up a wind break.....
lots of pine boughs on top but mostly on bottom

but no fire??????? on purpose??????

Just endure...like Les, no food just endures

Learn to fabricate a fire bow..............

---

yes on purpose for several reasons. one need to prepare for the anything may happen event lets say i sprang an ankle or injure my back and cannot gather enough firewood, want to know mentally i do not need fire to stay warm and alive maybe have to go tactical also alan likes to take things away from you to test your ability to survive everyone likes their fire in the winter so he may take away the comfort level of said fire. but yes as always i do carry what i need to survive i just like doing w/o from time to time

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wareagle69

yes on purpose for several reasons. one need to prepare for the anything may happen event lets say i sprang an ankle or injure my back and cannot gather enough firewood, want to know mentally i do not need fire to stay warm and alive maybe have to go tactical also alan likes to take things away from you to test your ability to survive everyone likes their fire in the winter so he may take away the comfort level of said fire. but yes as always i do carry what i need to survive i just like doing w/o from time to time

---

I fully understand this. I find there is a certain freedom that you get mentally, if you know that you can get by with quick simple strategies. Think of the story- "To build a fire" now imagine how comforting it is to know that you can get through the night with what your carrying...that you don't have to build, or erect anything.

If you haven't tried just digging a hole in the snow, and weathering a night there just in your winter clothes, I also suggest trying that. It even further adds to your piece of mind.

have done that also jason- i have a good jacket and ski pants that are preety heavy duty, not something you want to do much exertion in but nice to stay still in wind proof water proof and can just stop and take a nap w/o any discomfort

I just remembered an extreme cold weather sleeping system one of the team guys had. It was an inflatable tube affair, kind of like an air mattress but the domed top was the same as the bottom. it was actually wide enough for 2 skinny people to lie side by side comfortably. It was only about 2 feet tall. I have no idea who made it. t did have a zippered entrance at the head. Once you inflated it, you threw your bag in and crawled in after it then snuggle down for the night.

Wareagle, here is a game for you, and only you. Create five different caches by next fall.

Each cache numbered One to Five.

Now say you want to "Test" your self. Roll one dice. If it is a six....you have to go to the best supplied cache....BUT you can not use it. use nothing unless emergency.

If you roll one through five go to that # cache and make due with what is there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairman

Well ziplocks work in a pinch but extreme care should be taken.So yes I do carry it on hunting excursions.Empty it weighs nothing and has a handle that ties easily to my climber.

---

Always been partial to the wide mouth Mountain Dew bottles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jason_Montana

I fully understand this. I find there is a certain freedom that you get mentally, if you know that you can get by with quick simple strategies. Think of the story- "To build a fire" now imagine how comforting it is to know that you can get through the night with what your carrying...that you don't have to build, or erect anything.

If you haven't tried just digging a hole in the snow, and weathering a night there just in your winter clothes, I also suggest trying that. It even further adds to your piece of mind.

---

And your arthritis as you get older....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RBB

And your arthritis as you get older....

---

Heck, it might even create arthritis! Nothing like waking up frozen stiff, and then trying to get up and get going. My wife often teases me that I move like an old man when I first get up in the morning. It takes me about 30 minutes before I can walk upright! And, I'm still in my 30's.

Aahh, things to look forward to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jason_Montana

Heck, it might even create arthritis! Nothing like waking up frozen stiff, and then trying to get up and get going. My wife often teases me that I move like an old man when I first get up in the morning. It takes me about 30 minutes before I can walk upright! And, I'm still in my 30's.

Aahh, things to look forward to.

---

Used to sleep on the ground all the time when I was young. Never used a mat until I was about 45. Slept out a lot in the winter, do the 15 minute doze, wake, and turn. Thought I was tough, and I guess I was. Now I have arthritis in shoulders and hips. I'm sure sleeping out cold had something to do with it. I don't let it slow me down, but I take a lot more care when I'm sleeping out now - especially in the winter.

I have arthritis also, neck, hips, hands. If you give it a chance (at least one month without fail) Glucosamine HCI 1500mg & Chondroitin Sulfate 1200mg daily will help with osteoarthritis (at least). The normal dosage that is on the bottle is once daily but I take it twice daily. I know one person who takes it three times daily. It really works for reducing the pain and returning fluidity of movement. You have to take both compounds as they supplement each other. I buy mine at Costco but most stores carry it. Beware of brands which do not give the full dosage of both compounds.

Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichNH

I have arthritis also, neck, hips, hands. If you give it a chance (at least one month without fail) Glucosamine HCI 1500mg & Chondroitin Sulfate 1200mg daily will help with osteoarthritis (at least). The normal dosage that is on the bottle is once daily but I take it twice daily. I know one person who takes it three times daily. It really works for reducing the pain and returning fluidity of movement. You have to take both compounds as they supplement each other. I buy mine at Costco but most stores carry it. Beware of brands which do not give the full dosage of both compounds.

Rich

---

Been taking Osteo BiFlex for several years. Seems to help.

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