About Food.

Yes it is true that a human can three weeks without food; what the people who write that either don't tell you or you haven't read that far is you still need food! Food provides calories, which in turn provide energy, which you will need to do the things you need to do to survive! Go without food for only a few days and as you expand energy without replacing it you will become indecisive, weak, and lack the drive you need to get you out of the situation your in. In the Discovery channel's 2 part program on the "Marine Corps Survival School" they didn't give each "Jarhead" an egg and a lone match. They were going up into a mountainous terrain in the dead of winter so each one was given one half of a days ration, (One "cold weather" MRE) and a live rabbit, which they had to kill ,skin, gut, disjoint, & cook. They were not allowed ANY matches or lighters as they all had to learn to start a fire using the "Bow & Drill" method 1st. Once they accomplished this task they were given the designation: "Master of Fire" along with a really nice flint & steel set in a cool leather pouch that they slid onto their belts. They all wore GI Issue Polypropolyne thermals, "Mickey Boots", and other "ECWCS" clothing and equipment, including the 3-piece Sleeping bag system. Please note: This is the Marine Corps; "Hard charging Devil Dogs"; as hard-core as your going to find anywhere, and they carried canteens, mess kits, knives, etc.. No one decided to head up into the mountains wearing nothing but a loin cloth and carrying a stone axe. They had to forage for food, and here's the important part...Their diet included not only the MRE and every edible part of that rabbit they were given, but fish and any other game they might scare up. There were no, or very little edible plants. It still was a hard-core class. Food is nessasary, and if you don't want to eat bugs and grass, learn to fish, trap, and hunt game, use a hand-made sling if you have to!:cool:

Food keeps you warm to. Also if I don’t eat enough I can get really dizzy which could be a problem if I was trying to survive out in the wild.

i want my... ah nevermind

I deleted this reply since it really had nothing constructive to add to the topic

That is you can easilly survive 3 weeks without food where you are right now, in the brush your are digesting yourself well before the 3 weeks time period, cause your body is fighting to adapt it's self to it's surroundings, and as you won't be sitting on your hands you will be burning calories like crazy just to fuel yourself to get around.
Depending on the conditions critters will be chewing on your bones before the three weeks are up.
If you cant get protien, then work on getting nutrients then, but get something working.
If you are going to die don't lay down and let death take you, get mad and put up a fight all the way, and do what you can even if you have to chew willow twig tips!

I'm going to go make a sandwich, get a bowl of chips, and some ginger ale and read Vol's thread again.

Oh hell, I'm just going to eat.

I think it might be better stated as; You CAN live a few weeks without food - but it isn't a good idea, for the reasons stated above.

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Originally Posted by volwest

My "little" text above is just to re-situate food and maybe understand a little better the deep importance and meanings it has for us...like Owl Girl's post is fascinating to me....

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Do you have any questions about my post volwest? Id be happy to answer any.
I should probably ad that I don’t get dizzy from just missing super, last time I was dizzy it was because I was eating one meal a day for a week. And I was dizzy the whole week and I had very little energy. This usually happens if there’s a sudden decrease in food or if my activity level suddenly changes, like if I exercise every day for a couple weeks and then I stop…that will make me dizzy. If I gradually decrease my food intake I won’t get dizzy though. After 2 days of not eating I can feel my energy level go down and it’s a little uncomfortable but not to bad. I’ve never gone longer than 2 days without food though

I'm going to have to start packing a lunch to make it through volwest's posts :)

eat my book collection, :eek:

Trax and Volwest…that was hilarious :D

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Originally Posted by volwest

You would starve to death.

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But wouldn't I die smart? LOL:D :D

trax,

I am not sure that eating books is the right way to to go about "ingesting" knowledge.May be a little rough on the digestion...:p

trying to get more fiber in the ol' diet Nell :D :D

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Originally Posted by trax

trying to get more fiber in the ol' diet Nell :D :D

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Haha! so maybe a few others need some roughage,eh? Care to share?

Funny thing about eating, I've gone two days without eating just cause. Usually it's in the summer when it's hot. Drink alot of water, food just does not seem to be needed.

But it is.

I've learned to force eat when working hard out in the heat. Drink plenty of water and gator., 3 to 1 ratio. Don't eat heavy burgers, rather a salad with mixed chicken, veggys, stay away from any acidy vegs and fruits.

The idea of not eating for 3 weeks just makes my muscles hurt. On a good note, hey bet my six pack would be tighter.

six pack... six pack ... oh yeah now i remember what i was doing. where did i put that thing.. be right back.

Here's the thing, if I don't eat every 20 minutes or so I'll lose my appetite. I think we wore Wareagle out!:rolleyes:

You're body type is very important when it comes to surviving without food. If you have the six pack abs and ripped muscular build with very little body fat you will become nourishment for your companions. It all depends on your reserves. I am not in the best shape, I'm a little overweight but that is actually a good thing in a survival situation, it gives your body a few days of energy without the drop off. I have to agree with vol and sarge on this one. Water is the most important thing first but you also need food if for anything else just to keep your spirits up (besides I love the taste of a rabbit cooked over an open flame). Your body also needs the protiens from meat to repair the damage you are doing to your muscles which is alot if in a survival situation, that is why the men on the Lewis and Clark expedtition ate about 4 pounds of meat a day (I read this in a book so it must be true:D )

Most importantly it's also about morale. Anyone who has ever served in the military can attest to how good it makes you feel to be able to finally sit down to a good hot meal. Which supports the old addage that the most important thing in a survival situation is to maintain a positive attitude and that is hard to do when your stomach is empty, hurting and begging for something to eat.

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Originally Posted by volwest

DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.

I am extremely suspicious of "old adages"...especially when talking about food and our relationship with it. After all, not too long ago "they" (adages creators) flipped the trusted food pyramid on it's side.

We obviously do not know what the hell we are talking about here. More teenagers have an eating disorder than there are gun owners in this country, and most of our TV programs are somehow linked to food one way or another. While tabloids, magazines and diet or cook books exploit this fascination of ours while we parade around eating pounds of food in one serving, and drink more crap than is humanly possible in 2 liter mugs.

My first post pointed out this compulsion, and it is still viewed as something far fetch.
A positive attitude should not be linked to food. How can i survive in this world if i regard food as the ultimate life source ?
No sun means no food. No water means no food....etc.
Our priorities as humans have been turned upside down through the emulation of fear, power and pleasure.
Some people on this planet work 16 hour days in the fields or mines and all they eat is a bowl of rice with some bamboo shoots in it. How is that for proof that all of our views regarding this grand savior is out of place ?

You talk about "body types"...What on earth is that ?
Reserves ? How can we think that way ?
This approach is only good if we ALREADY are in a survival situation, and we cannot preserve nor transport our kill for example, the lion or big predators still function that way...eating all they can and walking away carrying 50 pounds of meat in their belly, risking being killed themselves for not being able to run anymore!!! That's reserve. But us ? I am not a big cat...

We have to re-think our view on food. The way we consume it, the way we feel about it, the way we talk about it, the way we joke about it. Everything about food was and is denatured.
With the advance of technology, we have now the capabilities of storing pounds of foods at home, the availability of nutrients is so abundant today, and yet we fear lacking it more and more. We are obsessed.
Food defines cultures, it defines religions, food defines your rank, your place in the heard, your status...food defines us.

Is it a good thing you are overweight ?
Of course not !
Biologically speaking it makes your heart work harder, it makes your blood circulation poorer, think about the fat that accumulates around your arteries, and from a survival point of view, i would rather be agile and fast than carry a "little extra fat for later ! "

But that is not the issue i bring "to the table" (here it is again)...the issue is psychological...the issue is what food means to us, and how it affects our state of minds.

So "it" does not depend on your reserve, "it" depends on your state of mind, and how you deal with hunger. I always enjoy watching "survivor" for many psychological reasons, but food is a big one. The "hunter" or "food provider" is almost always viewed as the hero, the mother/father, the savior. Why ?

Some of them, will pass on $1000 000 for a slice of pizza.
This same mentality, in a survival situation, will sell your life for that same slice of pizza.
Is this what thousands of years of humanity comes down to ?
Some say we are the most intelligent specie in the world...yet we are governed by a slice of pizza. We are governed by the fear of lacking something that is not even at the top of the list of must haves biologically.

We do need food to survive.
But we must recognize the mechanisms and processes involved with this need. We have lost along the way the true meaning of food. We have turned food into a jail, imprisoning our minds in walls made of sugar.

Food shouldn't be a mental process, but we made it that way.

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VW did it! He psyco-analyzed the Big Mac!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by volwest

DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.


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That's kinda odd VW, there sure were alot of you devil dogs bellying up to the table in the galley on board the ship (notice I said ship which tells you the army pun aint gonna work here):D

By the way, the reason I bring up the topic of food as a state of mind is because most of the population here or in the military has not been conditioned to shut off the sinapses of the nuerosystem that conduces us towards focusing on the things that won't help us in a critical situation. They don't know how to train there mind to ignore things such as pain, fatigue, or hunger. I'm not sure what kind of training you had in marines but food is one of the most important things when it comes to a military campaign.(why do you think the military spent all that money developing MRE's) Yes you are right that you can go for some time without eating but why would you when there is so much to eat in the wilderness?

I've gotta go now I'm hungry;)

1st, remember Napoleon's words: "An Army travels on it's stomach". Or these words from Wimpy: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" :D That being said I think we need to boil this down to some important facts: Do you know how diet affects diabetics or those who are Hypo-glycomic? If I go without food for too long my blood sugar drops and I get weak as a kitten! The needs of the individual involved need to be considered as well. I think Nell could probably tell us more about diet and Diabetes form personal experience.:confused:

Unfortunately so sarge,beings my hubby is diabetic,I on the other hand am Hypo-glycemic,makes for some interesting meal planning.

I eat every 4 - 6 hours,small meals,or snack on fresh or dried fruit or peanutbutter.

to explain what he's talking about, and I bet people are overlooking them. I did not know that ol Nappie invented the bagel (I did know about the sleep thing) but I think if we consider why the bagel was made the way vol just described, and look at what we do with bagels today, that pretty much explains what he's talking about. Think those French infantrymen were sitting down to toast their bagels and spread cream cheese on them while they were marching through the mud of Poland on their way to Moscow? I don't.

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Originally Posted by volwest

We obviously received a different training.

"shutting off synapses" without chemicals is impossible. There are other technics to first understand what is happening to your body, and then control pain, fatigue or hunger. The SEALs focus a lot on all of that in their training...have you seen what they make humans do during "hell week" ?
My training, and most Marines, will go through a LOT of sleep and food depravation, to get used to it but also to make us realize that we can still function on very little sleep and food...and push through the pain.

Sarge...did you know that napoleon only slept 3/4 hours a night for most of his life ? He also invented the bagel, the hole in the middle was to be able to string together all the bread...and that is pretty much all of what his armies ate on the field...different times.

I have in my family both hypo-glycomics and diabetics (which are the two opposite ends of a same stick.)...and i empathize with you...but those are disorders and make for a small amount of the population. Like Nell said on another thread, you will have to make specific preparations in order to compensate for the way your body functions.

This does not negate our relationship with food.

I am not talking about our need for food (it is a pretty obvious one), i am talking about our relationship with this need yes ?

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So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

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sleep deprivation stunts your growth huh?? So thats what happened....I heard it was the coffee lol.

...stomach. I have this "love/hate relationship with food; I love to eat and hate to quit. Also can you give me the address and phone number of that person who'll pay all that cabbage for a slice of Pizza? I got a slice of pepperoni sittin' here not doin' anything...:D

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

So that's why Napoleon always had his hand inside his coat, he was stashing a bagel...with Locks and cream cheese I'll bet. Oy Vay! That sounds kosher to me! Also I hear sleep deprivation stunts your growth...or not?:D

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I'm sure you know this and are just being funny... but Napoleon was crippled and hid his hand from view out of pride.

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Originally Posted by Chris

I'm sure you know this and are just being funny... but Napoleon was crippled and hid his hand from view out of pride.

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Just bein' funny, when Nap. met Jos the 1st thing she said to him was, "funny, you don't look jewish." Sorry Chris, can't help myself tonight!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Just bein' funny, when Nap. met Jos the 1st thing she said to him was, "funny, you don't look jewish." Sorry Chris, can't help myself tonight!:rolleyes:

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AWWW SARGE!!!:eek:

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DEET,

First thing first, a little bit of humor...Sit down to a good hot meal ? Maybe in the Army. "A good hot meal" negates being in the military...at least the Marines.

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I remember sitting down to a hot meal in the field, IN THE NAVY CHOW HALL, or IN THE ARMY CHOW HALL.

Sorry to say, while in the field on lrrps, I was happy with a cup of hot coffee and the peanut butter and crackers. I liked the eggs and would trade off my pound cake for it. Nobody liked the eggs, so they had a green tint to them, a little tabasco and they were good to go.

The crackers and peanut butter were awsome for patrols as they kind of bound ya up. You could go days without having to do a sit down job.

The ham was okay, I guess. When you're hungry you just about eat anything. We would scrounge up wild onions, someone always had some top roman noodles, throw it in the steel pot and simmer. Make sure your steel pot was not painted inside.

The did have canned stew aka dog food.

If we were doing jeep patrols, you just stuck the canned food on the side of the little 4 banger and you had an oven. JUST DON'T FORGET THE FOOD IS THERE or you would have one big mess.

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Originally Posted by FVR

I remember sitting down to a hot meal in the field, IN THE NAVY CHOW HALL, or IN THE ARMY CHOW HALL.

Sorry to say, while in the field on lrrps, I was happy with a cup of hot coffee and the peanut butter and crackers. I liked the eggs and would trade off my pound cake for it. Nobody liked the eggs, so they had a green tint to them, a little tabasco and they were good to go.

The crackers and peanut butter were awsome for patrols as they kind of bound ya up. You could go days without having to do a sit down job.

The ham was okay, I guess. When you're hungry you just about eat anything. We would scrounge up wild onions, someone always had some top roman noodles, throw it in the steel pot and simmer. Make sure your steel pot was not painted inside.

The did have canned stew aka dog food.

If we were doing jeep patrols, you just stuck the canned food on the side of the little 4 banger and you had an oven. JUST DON'T FORGET THE FOOD IS THERE or you would have one big mess.

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What? No Bagels?:rolleyes:

My fav. was SOS and runny eggs, this was supplied to us by the good ol USMC.

Now the Army chow hall in Panama, man, I was on the advanced party and for a week ate like a king. They actually asked you what you wanted and made omlettes to order. The coffee, in the bottom of the cups didn't even have old cig butts. All good things come to an end, they left and I was sent into the jungle.

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Originally Posted by volwest

Did you know you can make a cutting tool out of the filter of a cigaret butt ?
Old french trick when taken prisoner to cut your veins...and end the endless jokes.
One last smoke.


So...let's keep it real.(that makes me laugh)
I know a lot about the pathological state we call hypoglycemia. In fact i know a lot about food.
I actually did some research in pathophysiology and if your plasma glucose levels are below 70 mg/dl...congratulation, you can call yourself hypoglycemic.
Although not my main focus, 10 to 20 grams of carbohydrate will raise your blood glucose to normal levels within minutes.
That's about 4 crackers...or 3 ounces of orange juice.

A "normal" adult will be able to maintain a blood glucose level above 50 mg for 72 hours.
If you can fast through the night, i wouldn't call you hypoglycemic, but that's just me.

If you get "shaky" it means you are having adrenergic manifestations of hypoglycemia...which are governed by hormones such as adrenaline and glucagon.
But to be sure i would have to look into it more because often people think they are hypoglycemic when in fact they have high anxiety levels which "give out" similar manifestations.

If you do monitor your blood levels, and you tell me that you drop bellow 50 to 70 mg, then i believe you...and i would recommend you find the cause of it and the proper etiology...for it could be as simple as replacing the appropriate hormones for example.

If you do not in fact go bellow 70, but still experience manifestations...then i would look into anxiety disorders.

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I guess all that's well & good, but I was talking about "Survival" in relation to physical problems someone might have that might prevent them from doing without food. You know, keeping it real!:eek:

It is always about food. Many cases of hypothermia are from not enough of the right fuel going in the system. People That survive on a bowl of rice a day are not usualy up to extreme hard work especialy in a cold harsh enviorment.Anyone going 3 weks without fod is not going to go away with out some health isues damage to their organs. If you wait to long to think about food you may have waited to long.

I have actually tested my blood sugar when I have had "episodes" and my glucose level was around 50-60 each time I have taken it.Easier to control my problem than hubbies and I always carry a few packets of table sugar or hard candy in my pocket,but it has been 4 years since my last episode,I learned how to control it with eating more often,but smaller meals eating fruits and such,I do avoid eating sugar as much as possible,because the sugar high almost always leads to a sugar low.

I just try to keep it even.

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Originally Posted by volwest

And what do you think i am talking about ?

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VW, are you posting to? If me I thought you were talking about a "relationship" as opposed to specific needs.:confused: :confused:

Here's something that can help, download it if you want!

http://vietnamresearch.com/manuals/crats/mre.html

Enjoy!:cool:

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Here's something that can help, download it if you want!

http://vietnamresearch.com/manuals/crats/mre.html

Enjoy!:cool:

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Very Nice, Thanks Sarge :D