http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/themainmessage.htm
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Trying to fix the link-Quote:
Originally Posted by wareagle69
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/themainmessage.htm
The above initials stand for "Post-Apoclyptic-Scenario, which I will refer to as Scenario "B" for short. Scenario "A" will be for "short-term" survival situations that rarely last over 72 hours, and are keeping more in line with what this site is actually all about. I think that there can be no argument here that just about every member of the Wolf-Pack here would come out pretty much okay during a "class A" scenario based on their knowledge, expertise, and equipment choices. It's the "class B" scenarios that are more unpredictable. "Bad guys" are able to asses the strength of any person or persons and act accordingly. Ergo, they take the well-equipped "good guy/gal" out of the equation by a well-placed ambush, or something like that. Surviving long-term is definitely a matter of luck as well as "being prepared." Duncan Long at the "Rubicon" web-site makes a good case for "trustworthy communities." The problem that I have is where does such a thing exist in this day & age? Mr. Long's text was released in 1989, a time when a lot more people could be trusted. Another glitch with "Communal-type living" is learning to live with one another; any of you "old married folks" will have a clue to what I'm talking about.:rolleyes: I'm sure Volwest knows, since he works in Pyscology of some sort. As an example, we all get along here on this web-site seemingly okay, but what if we were all to move in together, even as a way of surviving, what would happen? Nobody here really knows that much about one another.:eek:
Your welcome, VW. Something that's important in any survival situation where a group is involved is "resources". Using this group as a model I wonder how we might asses and utilize the resources displayed here?:confused:
i have typed it in by hand and it jumps to where it should go an article on backpack fever
thank you dr volwest
i was really hoping that you would be able to read this article that i was trying to link to. it really changed my mind on the thoughts of b/o in a situation in will now use b/o as a secondary plan and make adjustments for a b/in maybe ryan in michigan should also try to find this site.
always be prepared
true
i was looking at it based not so much on the latter part of the article about joining a comunity but rather on the begining of the article and the challenges faced when decideing to b/o
Good article, pretty much true.
The bug out mentallity is great, for one or two persons, but when you are talking of families, it's just not feasable.
People don't realize that living primitive is alot of hard work. If you are not getting food, you're getting firewood.
Cut a cord of wood, pile it and use it for cooking and heating. Won't last you long. I can burn a cord of wood in the fireplace in about two weeks just having comfy home fires in the winter.
You ever cut a cord of wood? without a chainsaw? take of the wedding rings boys as you will get blisters. Then you need to lift, stack, and if you don't stack right, cover.
There are problems with the community idea also. Most conflict will come with those that want to lead, then there are those that don't want to work, there are personality conflicts, and power struggles. Then what happens if someone breaks the rules?
I've never minded bringing up the rear, because as stated that is where most attacks start. Always put your two strongest in the rear, your best pointman up front and keep that radio operator and corpsman in the middle and safe.
Gonna be a good thread.
Your in the south. don't talk to me about firewood. I can burn a cord in week just to keep the ****ter from frezing. the famaliy idea works. I have 5 brothers and brothers in law that all grew up this way along with me. I welcome the problemQuote:
Originally Posted by FVR
I don't know if anyone noticed, but the original link's "404 Error" is kind of funny. Let it run for a minute...
ryaninmichigan,
You have an extended family, good for you. Betcha that crapper fills up fast, watch out with open flame.
As far as cutting wood, been around my friend and have cut my share. I've only been in Georgia since 90.
The idea I was trying to get across is that, most do not realize how fast a cord of wood goes. Most don't even know what a cord of wood looks like.
I never really copped to the 'bug-out' thing, for the simple reason that it IS a bit complex to plan for the unthinkable, or unknowable. I live in earthquake country (although not as bad as Alaska), so that's what I plan for. I will never know its coming, I may die while it's happening, but there's a better chance I'll get through it.
I think in the end, mitigation is the key, but be prepared to leave if it comes to that. Case in point, if the 'big one' were to hit, what would be the point in staying here? I'd be out of a job AND a home.
I guess we just can't worry about everything - it kind of takes the fun out of life.
As far as community is concerned, volwest is right, there will always be people's personalities and dispositions to deal with. I do think that people who share a traumatic experience tend to bond at a deeper level than most of us can understand, but in the end, the personalities that were brought to the table would prevail.
My father used to say that if you redistributed the wealth, and everyone had an equal share of money, by the end of the month, the rich would still be rich, and the poor would still be poor. (I'll grant you, he's a bit of a snob) What I derived from that is that, like I said above, people bring their baggage with them, and they will eventually open it for all to see.
Yeh, bugging out just never did it for me. Now if I need to go to the woods to survive, that's one thing. But to run to the woods with my tail between my legs, just not my thing.
I do envy the large familys like yaninmichigan has. Yeh, there would be conflict, but the main goal is the survival of the unit. They just have a larger unit than most.
The community thing could work depending on who is in the community.
Now I gotta ask this question...what kind of wood are we talkin' about? Hickory? Oak?? Pine? Some will burn long & even, others fast & furious, and before you know it you're out lookin' an' cuttin' more wood. Yeah, it ain't like in the comic books or the movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by FVR
Who's gonna lead? This group is definately a bunch of "hard-headed independent cusses", that's why I dig you all! When taking inventory you have to take into account what each person has to offer. Some people are natural leaders, others are good at other things. I'm a good cook so I know my place in the order of things. A person with an education in medicine would be the medic. The guy(s) with the muscles can do heavy lifting, but others could help as needed. Women folk always need protecting as anyone can be a sexual preditor.(sp?) Finally the big question; how do you get a bunch of independent thinkers to operate as a team? :confused:
That’s an interesting thought, where do each of you think your main place would be in a team? Where would your skills best be put into play?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
Me I’d probably be most helpful in the medicine category since I’ve been researching herbs and how to use plants as medicine. Plus I’m pretty accommodating, my friends always come to my house because they know I’ll pamper them, treat them when there sick give them back rubs etc. so I’d be pretty happy with that position or at least being an assistant of someone with that position. Along with doing basic things that I can do like gather firewood etc.
I guess i would fit in as the "worker". I always have, and I always will. I like to lose myself in a task. I'm also a problem solver, I look for the easiest way to do things and have perfected the art! Mostly so I don't have to work as long... (I like the FINISHING part of a job the most)
So based on all that where do you think your main place would be in a team volwest?
Okay Owl Girl is both the Camp Massuse and Medicine woman:rolleyes: , anybody else?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by owl_girl
masseuse? Na ah that’s massage therapist buddy. There’s a difference. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
Hunting. Oh yeah, firewood cutting too. I kept my house supplied in firewood when I lived in northern Manitoba every winter for 12 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by owl_girl
Oh, and cuddling, definitely good at that, :D :D :D
Awareness that the common good is the best way to reach the common goalQuote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
That sounds good in theory, but I guarantee you, in actual practice all knids of things rise up!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by trax
Oh I know, but the reality is, there's never a perfect sytem.
my place would be open i can cook and have medical training, but mostly i have been good at security, although most ppl who know me say i am a nice guy, most ppl who look at me get another impression 6' 4'' 220lbs lots of ink and well sculpted muscles and carry myself in a manner that ppl respect and have fought professional level in the mixed martial arts. since i was a kid ppl especialy women have always said that they feel safe and protected around me.
Great! You're our enforcer! Sound silly? Let's look at a possibility that could arise. Suppose the only knife in the group was that $1000 Strider that we all know is owned by an actual participant here. Our leader, who is not the owner, decides that this knife needs to be placed in the hands of someone else. Remember, in a "group survival scenario" everything becomes community property. Of course the owner of the knife doesn't wish to comply, after all, he's paid out mucho bucks for his custom-made blade. Security has the unpopular job of enforcing the leader's, as well as the groups final decisions. Comments?:confused: Also you can spend your nights cuddling with Trax, he says he's "really good at it". ;>)Quote:
Originally Posted by wareagle69
yeah i have heard that rummor somewhere
btw sarge i looked up the members records you have 394 posts followed by trax at 204 then owl girl at 193 then me at 137 er now 138
i'll agree with that, i would not want to be in a situation where i need to enforce the rules(been there)rather helping to protect my pack. just naturally good at that
Any "group survival situation" is really a small, temporary society. There are rules that will be unpopular with some people, it's inevitable. Those rules will have to be upheld, however, even with the threat of force if nessasary. Law Enforcement is also a nessasary evil in any society today. Not everyone is going to be as civilized as you,VW. As the saying goes: "Man is not a rational animal, but a rationalizing one." Also, maybe the leader selection isn't that great. We would all have to make do as best we can. I remember watching "part II" of Discovery's "USMC Survival School where the Marines had to remove one leader and replace him with another. It's an imperfect world with us in it after all. Just me tuo pence..:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Volwest that last thing you said I agree with but I’m confused with that other post.
First off the cuddle thing was a joke so lighten up. And why would trax not be a hunter? If he wants to hunt let him hunt. And me I’ve always been interested in medicine and I take care of my family when there sick so why wouldn’t I help with medicine?
Waiting for volwest to make a decision or get to a point....why do you not see us in the areas we mentioned there sportsfan? I'm 49 years old and started learning to hunt when I was six. I raised a family of four kids on wild meat. So your assumption is based on what?
I guess I should have typed in "perfect political system". I guess in the situation as it was described you can just set back and be our thinker, while everyone else is getting things done.
Sarge Im not agents having a good leader but corruption finds its way even into small groups and that kind of power would scare me.
volwest you seam to talk more about the questions then answer them. You’ve already asked another question and you haven’t answered any.
Yes actually that was my favorite post you’ve ever made, at least that made some sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
amen to that owl girl.
volwest has finally shown us how he can contribute to our society.
What you going to do? Bore them to death? My turn....I don't think so.
Ahh yes, the $64,000 question. The qualities that define a "good" leader are many. They earn, and hopefully justify the trust placed in them by the group. The "common" good, as was referred to earlier is, in my opinion, whatever is needed for the group to survive over that of the individual. Or, as Mr. Spock from "Star Trek" has so elequently put it: "The needs of the many outwiegh the needs of the few, or even the one." A good leader makes good decisions quickly. There is an alternative, and that is the leadership council, but they would all have to be on the same page. And finally, VW, no, that wasn't me talking about CO's, I was never in the military. I'll let others wiegh in with thier view of leadership qualities.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
Lashing out? I simply stated why I came to my conclusion and asked how you came to yours, I didn’t call you names or anything. For me disagreeing is not the same as lashing out. I was wondering more about the fact that you keep asking questions but rarely answer them. I didn’t mean to make you feel lashed out at.Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest
If I choose to fallow a leader that person would be calm, logical, and compassionate. But now I have a question, if the man you wanted the knife from decided he didn’t want to be in the group and he started walking away would you chase him down and take it even though he’s not part of your group?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge47
VW, you seem to me to be a "deep thinker." I also find that you are a very intelligent individual and that while you would probably not make a good leader, you could probably be accurate in picking one out. The problem here is that your drinking from the deep well while most of us are drinking from the shallow stream. (Yes, I like my metaphors.) I often find that concepts crouched in simple terms are oft-times the most profound. Communication, complete communication, is what's really needed. It really cracks me up when you go on & on then come out with a simple statement to sum it all up!Quote:
Originally Posted by volwest