Looking for Advice - Potential Workplace Violence

About a week ago, I mentioned that my 26-year-old daughter was robbed at gunpoint at work a couple of years back. That was her last day at the job. She's a grown woman, but I'll always be a protective dad.

She started a new job last November, working the third shift at a medium-sized high-tech manufacturing plant with about 200 employees. Employees at the plant, located in an industrial park, are extremely well paid and receive excellent benefits compared to most wage-earners in the area. Turnover is very low, and most employees have been worked there for several years.

My daughter is a hard worker and a fast learner, and I was a very proud dad when she was promoted to plant shift-manager about 6 weeks ago. She works 12 hours a day, 5 days a week, 7:00 pm to 7:00 am, managing 1 and 1/2 shifts each day.

She had her first serious problem with an employee last night. The young man, a resident-alien from Asia, had recently asked the CEO for a company loan to buy a car. The company extends loans to reliable long-time employees, but this individual had been there for only 8 months and the loan request was denied.

So last night, he began a complaining that he was being discriminated against. He rambled on that the plant CEO, a Vietnam Vet, had "killed his people." He returned from his lunch break and was clearly intoxicated. He refused to work and became disruptive, ranting loudly that the company "owed him" because the CEO had "killed his people." My daughter had no alternative but to terminate him and order him to leave the premises immediately.

Obviously, my concern is the potential for workplace violence, especially on Friday's when the plant shuts down at 11:00 pm for the weekend and my daughter is alone there until after midnight, well after the employees have all left. My daughter plans on addressing this issue with the CEO and the VPs on Monday, but I'm nonetheless very concerned about her safety. I know from experience that "no-trespass notices" and restraining orders aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Employees are strictly prohibited from carrying firearms on company property. That's not an option for her. The plant has several entrances, and employees on the overnight shift are permitted to leave and re-enter the plant through one entrance during their staggered breaks.

You can be sure that I'll be there waiting for her to leave on Friday nights (actually Saturday mornings) and that I'll follow her home to the suburbs to make sure she arrives home safe and sound. I'll do that for the indefinite future. Maybe he'll show up on the first night I'm waiting near the door........

Obviously, I can't be there 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. And that is why I'm asking for advice from a group of "like-minded" people.

Combative training and a serious knife.

Can she authorize overtime to a trusted employee to at least have a second on premisses.

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Originally Posted by gryffynklm

Can she authorize overtime to a trusted employee to at least have a second on premisses.

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She can, Karl. But that person won't be armed either. Good idea though. Thanks!

Does the plant have a security system or people?.....

Has similar situation in our plant.....the plant guard(s) did provide escort to and from vehicles...

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Originally Posted by hunter63

Does the plant have a security system or people?.....

Has similar situation in our plant.....the plant guard(s) did provide escort to and from vehicles...

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Only an alarm system, hunter. No security personnel at all. The industrial park is well over a square mile in size with about 5 miles of roads. It's a dark, isolated place surrounded mostly by woods. The plant's at least 500 feet away from the next closest building, and I'd be surprised if a police cruiser drives by more than twice a month.

Wish I had something of more substance to offer. It sounds like a review of facility security and procedures is in order.

What would hinder you or some associates from being in the parking lot from 11pm till your daughter is off ?

It would be in the best interest of the company to deal with any safety issues that an employee may have on their property...at least that's the way our company viewed it at the time.
She acted in the companies interest in doing her job...there fore they have a stake in this as well..........

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Originally Posted by hunter63

It would be in the best interest of the company to deal with any safety issues that an employee may have on their property...at least that's the way our company viewed it at the time.
She acted in the companies interest in doing her job...there fore they have a stake in this as well..........

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You would think so,but if safety and security of employes was a concern for them they would hire a security company. Looking out for the best interest of the company usually ends when its your personal safety on the line. I cant recall any company that has been victim of work place violence say " Sorry this was all are fault, please sue us".

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Originally Posted by gryffynklm

Wish I had something of more substance to offer. It sounds like a review of facility security and procedures is in order.

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The meeting's on Monday, Karl. Keeping my fingers crossed that they do something of substance.

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Originally Posted by welderguy

What would hinder you or some associates from being in the parking lot from 11pm till your daughter is off ?

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I'm certain that can be arranged. The guy didn't make any threats, but he was clearly agitated and we live in a crazy world. If he HAD made a threat, the problem would have been resolved already.

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Originally Posted by hunter63

It would be in the best interest of the company to deal with any safety issues that an employee may have on their property...at least that's the way our company viewed it at the time.
She acted in the companies interest in doing her job...there fore they have a stake in this as well..........

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This isn't the first termination there by any means, but it was HER first time terminating someone. They've never brought in security or police to her knowledge. Nonetheless, the combined facts that this guy has a deep-seated grudge, is claiming discrimination, feels he's "owed something," and abuses alcohol raise serious concerns that probably aren't an issue in most terminations.

There are several different companies that will will escort you to your vehicle and be on the phone with you and track you with GPS until your are safely in your vehicle. One calls their program "Walk with Me". If you feel threatened they will call the police for you. The point with them is someone is online real time. Not a deterrent of course but would provide her some level of comfort and immediate response if something did happen. She might not be able to call 911 on her own. Check out StreetSafe at http://www.streetsafe.com or 5Star Urgent Response at http://www.greatcall.com/FiveStar_urgent_response/

Are chemical deterrents (mace, etc.) legal in Mass?

Are there work place safety rules for management in place? If so, she should certainly review what her options are.

Is there a video surveillance system in place? If not, that would certainly be a suggestion to the CEO.

Were threats made against her and/or the company? Restraining orders should still be put in place if there were.

Does she have any vantage point to see the parking lot from inside the building before leaving. Is the lot lit?

Is the single entrance door they are allowed to use somehow locked with a entry code or swipe card system? If not, that would also be a suggestion.

Perhaps the company could hire a temporary nighttime guard for 30 days. By then the guy will probably have found another job.

Just some thoughts.

I would suggest looking at hiring personal security detail. If you're only talking about an hour or two window, one night a week, there may be a service already in the area that could provide her with personalized service at a reasonable cost. If she's writing the check, she would have greater control over the service. At least until the company provides a better alternative or the threat has passed. What's a few bucks for peace of mind? It is also likely to be deductible as an unreimbursed business expense but check with a tax expert on that. If you've got friends in law enforcement maybe they can recommend a trusted officer who moonlights as a security guard. Say it costs $100 bucks per night. For six months of protection it's only $2600.

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Originally Posted by Rick

There are several different companies that will will escort you to your vehicle and be on the phone with you and track you with GPS until your are safely in your vehicle. One calls their program "Walk with Me". If you feel threatened they will call the police for you. The point with them is someone is online real time. Not a deterrent of course but would provide her some level of comfort and immediate response if something did happen. She might not be able to call 911 on her own. Check out StreetSafe at http://www.streetsafe.com or 5Star Urgent Response at http://www.greatcall.com/FiveStar_urgent_response/


Just some thoughts.

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Good questions, Rick.

Are chemical deterrents (mace, etc.) legal in Mass?

Yes, but guns are quite common on the streets around here. Mace won't work in a gun fight or against a knife.

Are there work place safety rules for management in place? If so, she should certainly review what her options are.

None other than keeping doors locked and the usual non-security safety policies.

Is there a video surveillance system in place? If not, that would certainly be a suggestion to the CEO.

Yes, and she can monitor from her office. However, the plant is quite large, the grounds are isolated, and there are lots of shadows to hide in, especially when she's doing her last walk through and walks out the door into the parking lot.

Were threats made against her and/or the company? Restraining orders should still be put in place if there were.

No threats at all. Not even a hint. But his statements and behavior are cause for concern. From my experience, if someone is inclined to do something, a restraining order only strengthens their resolve. In other cases, it only puts ideas into their heads.

Does she have any vantage point to see the parking lot from inside the building before leaving. Is the lot lit?

There are no monitors at the exit where she leaves from. She has to go outdoors to see what's there. The lot is well lit, but the plantings, plant configuration, and landscaping provide a number of hiding spots.

Is the single entrance door they are allowed to use somehow locked with a entry code or swipe card system? If not, that would also be a suggestion.

It can be locked from the outside with a crash-bar to exit from the inside. No swipe system except for management. Employees enter and exit through the "night entrance" throughout the shift.

Perhaps the company could hire a temporary nighttime guard for 30 days. By then the guy will probably have found another job.

Security is what I'm hoping for. With the local job market as it is, the guy will be unemployed for the next few years. I suspect that the company had EEOC quotas to comply with.

Thanks very much for the suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Cast-Iron

I would suggest looking at hiring personal security detail. If you're only talking about an hour or two window, one night a week, there may be a service already in the area that could provide her with personalized service at a reasonable cost. If she's writing the check, she would have greater control over the service. At least until the company provides a better alternative or the threat has passed. What's a few bucks for peace of mind? It is also likely to be deductible as an unreimbursed business expense but check with a tax expert on that. If you've got friends in law enforcement maybe they can recommend a trusted officer who moonlights as a security guard. Say it costs $100 bucks per night. For six months of protection it's only $2600.

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I don't want to sound like Marlin Brando, but I do have people, LOL. The problem is that they enjoy what they do and don't quite understand the concept of "measured response."

I'm not only concerned about that one night a week, although it is my greatest concern. This guy could show up at any time - day or night.

Not walking to her car alone, pepper spray, personal alarm (the loudest you can find) - I realize that they may not deter a gun wielding, disgruntled former employee but they may deter an unarmed or lesser armed individual.

Since the meeting is Monday - hopefully they will put on security. With some of your LEO contacts is a one time Friday night escort an option until other security arrangements can be made by the company? Absent the LEO escort, some of your "less disciplined" contacts might be in order.

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Originally Posted by Rick

There are several different companies that will will escort you to your vehicle and be on the phone with you and track you with GPS until your are safely in your vehicle. One calls their program "Walk with Me". If you feel threatened they will call the police for you. The point with them is someone is online real time. Not a deterrent of course but would provide her some level of comfort and immediate response if something did happen. She might not be able to call 911 on her own. Check out StreetSafe at http://www.streetsafe.com or 5Star Urgent Response at http://www.greatcall.com/FiveStar_urgent_response/

Are chemical deterrents (mace, etc.) legal in Mass?

Are there work place safety rules for management in place? If so, she should certainly review what her options are.

Is there a video surveillance system in place? If not, that would certainly be a suggestion to the CEO.

Were threats made against her and/or the company? Restraining orders should still be put in place if there were.

Does she have any vantage point to see the parking lot from inside the building before leaving. Is the lot lit?

Is the single entrance door they are allowed to use somehow locked with a entry code or swipe card system? If not, that would also be a suggestion.

Perhaps the company could hire a temporary nighttime guard for 30 days. By then the guy will probably have found another job.

Just some thoughts.

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Rick , Ive never seen a chemical agent that was bullet proof..The only thing being on the phone will do is let the person your talking too know you have been shot or are being raped...Immediate response to a threat is pulling your firearm..I guess youve never heard any 911 calls that the people calling in are being heard getting killed while on the phone with dispatch?

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Originally Posted by welderguy

Rick , Ive never seen a chemical agent that was bullet proof..The only thing being on the phone will do is let the person your talking too know you have been shot or are being raped...Immediate response to a threat is pulling your firearm..I guess youve never heard any 911 calls that the people calling in are being heard getting killed while on the phone with dispatch?

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While true - as was stated - a firearm is not an option for her.

I'm hoping for security as well. Crash, this place is almost 2 driving miles from the entrance to the industrial park - diagonally opposite, in fact. I have LEO friends that would be there for me, unless they get dispatched elsewhere. Either way, I will be there when she's alone, and I always travel with "friends."

My "other contacts" would show up at his home in a heartbeat if I called them, but I'm afraid of what they'd leave behind once they left. Like I said, no threats - so far, anyway.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

While true - as was stated - a firearm is not an option for her.

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True, but having someone as an escort with a firearm could be.

I knew she would not be able to carry a weapon inside the plant and figured with Massachusetts laws she probably could not carry a knife inside either. However, she probably can get away with some chemical agent and even if she had to use it she would probably be okay from a legal standpoint. I probably should have explained that better but I knew what I was thinking dang it. The rest of my questions were related to outside the plant.

manufacturing plants usually have utility knives (slide in blades),if this one does,then she probably would not get in trouble for having one on her person,and mostly hidden in the palm of her hand where an idiot wouldn't particularly be looking knowing that weapons are banned from the plant as a former employee he would know.

One other thing.... she's tiny. Like 5'2" and under 110 lbs. soaking wet.

Nell, she does carry a knife - and it is for job related reasons. I just called and asked her. It's a Spyderco.

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Originally Posted by Ken

Nell, she does carry a knife - and it is for job related reasons. I just called and asked her. It's a Spyderco.

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Needs to be IN her hand anytime she is leaving the building,or even walking the floor checking doors and such. Not ideal,since it requires close encounter to be of defense,but better than not being able to carry anything at all and can sure put a world of hurt on someone.

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Originally Posted by nell67

Needs to be IN her hand anytime she is leaving the building,or even walking the floor checking doors and such. Not ideal,since it requires close encounter to be of defense,but better than not being able to carry anything at all and can sure put a world of hurt on someone.

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Inside, yes. DADDY will be there with his friends Heckler & Koch when she's leaving the building on Fridays.

Ken, Don't discount personal alarms. Cowards that would sneak up on a young woman don't like any attention drawn to them. http://www.deluxecctv.com/index.php?...FVIV7AodZ20AhA

Just a thought.
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSRCH?PM...FYVQ7AodJEUA2A

Just some random thoughts; do you have any friends who are former military/LEOs that could go to the company and volunteer their skills as security guards? Are Tasers allowed by law in Massachusetts? K-9? Hi-beam flashlight and "rape whistle" for sure. Portable air horn? Walkie talkies, hers locked on the "transmit position?" Yours on "receive?" A bullhorn in your car along with a really large, high-beam flashlight to scare the crap out of the pos should he return? Having a homicide victim in the family helps me relate. ...:rambo:

First, she and you need to support the local Sheriff. If it was my Toot Toot, I am confident the local Sheriff would reschedule "lunch break" for a few Deputies if I/she only asks.

Second, she needs some coaching on termination procedures. Again, support your local Sheriff, my Toot Toot would have had a Deputy escort a belligerent, intoxicated former employee to the poky.

Third, support your local Sheriff. Lunch breaks will be a bit less frequent, but we get/got the point across.





Support your local Sheriff. I pay for the service, but do not act that way. They have been more than responsive to any request I have made, and the results are amazing.


Show some force, be it by tax money, out of pocket, or both.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Ken, Don't discount personal alarms. Cowards that would sneak up on a young woman don't like any attention drawn to them. http://www.deluxecctv.com/index.php?...FVIV7AodZ20AhA

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I'll order one for her.

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Originally Posted by 2dumb2kwit

Just a thought.
http://www.galls.com/cgi/CGBCSRCH?PM...FYVQ7AodJEUA2A

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Chris, you guessed it. Illegal in Mass. I laughed at when I saw it, because my little bro was pulled out of line by TSA airport security when they found one in his briefcase. The guy he was with had was carrying something a bit more formidable, LOL. Thing is, they both FORGOT they even had them. They smiled when the TSA guy hauled them into an office and started to have a blowout. Supervisors' showed up and flipped out until their supervisors showed up. Out came the I.D.s, and the profuse apologies flowed instantly.

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Originally Posted by Sarge47

Just some random thoughts; do you have any friends who are former military/LEOs that could go to the company and volunteer their skills as security guards? Are Tasers allowed by law in Massachusetts? K-9? Hi-beam flashlight and "rape whistle" for sure. Portable air horn? Walkie talkies, hers locked on the "transmit position?" Yours on "receive?" A bullhorn in your car along with a really large, high-beam flashlight to scare the crap out of the pos should he return? Having a homicide victim in the family helps me relate. ...:rambo:

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Tasers are illegal in Mass. But THESE aren't: http://www.tigerlight.net/TigerLight...on_Device.html

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Originally Posted by intothenew

First, she and you need to support the local Sheriff. If it was my Toot Toot, I am confident the local Sheriff would reschedule "lunch break" for a few Deputies if I/she only asks.

Second, she needs some coaching on termination procedures. Again, support your local Sheriff, my Toot Toot would have had a Deputy escort a belligerent, intoxicated former employee to the poky.

Third, support your local Sheriff. Lunch breaks will be a bit less frequent, but we get/got the point across.





Support your local Sheriff. I pay for the service, but do not act that way. They have been more than responsive to any request I have made, and the results are amazing.


Show some force, be it by tax money, out of pocket, or both.

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I always support my local police. I have friends.

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Originally Posted by Ken

I always support my local police. I have friends.

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Show some force, and introduce her to your friends.

What about notifying the FBI with what he said and your concern for workplace violence. Perhaps they would pay a little visit.

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Originally Posted by rebel

What about notifying the FBI with what he said and your concern for workplace violence. Perhaps they would pay a little visit.

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Reb, without threats, they'll just see it as a drunk getting fired.

Large companies should have security systems. It's irresponsible for them not to.

That said, we all have pretty much the same risks. We all have to interact with other people and some of those people might be irrational and dangerous. We're living in the Land of the Offended. The best thing we can do is be aware and be able to take care of ourselves.

I've seen way too many people stroll out to their car in the Wal-Mart parking lot (where we've had way too many robberies and assaults) as if they were the only people around, leisurely place their groceries in their car, get in the car, and just sit there for 15 minutes - women especially. There are predator and prey personalities and we have too many people whose body languages are shouting, "Come and get me."

I was going to suggest a Zaplight. http://www.trueswords.com/stun-flash...le-p-5242.html Yeah, not probably not legal in MA And you can't ship it to MA but if she has a CCL it might be OK by the state. As far as work, it's a flashlight.;)
I'm small and always carried a knife when I was an office manager. I worked in a bad part of town and if I had to use it and then got fired well then that would be the least of my worries.
If possible the company should try to get her a parking spot near the exit. She should have a plan in case she was forced to retreat. (places to go, places to hide, cover/concealment) If someone points a gun at her then keep moving.

How much later does she stay past the time when the other workers leave? Is it necessary? Could they authorize some extra time so there would always be someone to leave with her? We used a buddy system when taking the evening bank deposits.

It kinda sounds like the guy is more pissed at the CEO. But it's still not a good company policy to have anyone leaving alone that late at night in a remote area.

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Originally Posted by cowgirlup

If possible the company should try to get her a parking spot near the exit.

If someone points a gun at her then keep moving.

How much later does she stay past the time when the other workers leave? Is it necessary? Could they authorize some extra time so there would always be someone to leave with her?

It kinda sounds like the guy is more pissed at the CEO.

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I was in the middle of a post when she called me a few minutes ago. She's afraid. The guy is a gangbanger - a member of an Asian gang - with somewhat of a history. That's a game-changer.

In a few days, I'll know more about him and his whereabouts at any given moment than his mommy and the NSA know.

She has the parking spot closest to the door.

He is more pissed at the CEO. No question.

The company is going to have at least two people with her until she locks up on Fridays and when she opens up on Sunday nights. And Daddy's going to be there, too, sipping coffee with one or two friends with lots of experience in these types of matters.

The worst mistake he could ever make in his entire life would be to show up there with hostile intentions.

Sorry if I missed it but is there any type of security during the day or controlled access to the building? I hope the company is addressing security at all times not just focusing on when she leaves at night.

You're a good dad. :)