Is primitive jerky that's smoked over a fire or air dried safe to eat? What would kill the worms, parasites, and bacteria?
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Is primitive jerky that's smoked over a fire or air dried safe to eat? What would kill the worms, parasites, and bacteria?
I have stored jerky for six months and I'm still here to tell the tale. It's important to heat the meat to 160F before drying it. If you heat the meat to 160F you destroy the pathogens on the meat. Heating to around 130F (dehydrator or oven method) you just remove the water, which can leave bacteria present in the meat. But smoking has been done for thousands of years so yes it's safe. Air drying is going to be dependent on the ambient temperature for drying to be successful. You have to be able to dry the meat before it spoils. Trying to dry it in cool or wet weather won't allow that to occur.
Have to agree with Rick here. I have never air dried my jerky. Always use my smoker where I can get the temp up to close to 200 degrees while drying mine. Remember you can use the wifes kitchen stove the same way less the smoke. I've been told it works well. When you get the meat temp up to 160 it's cooked so should have no problems.
Oldtrap
How primitive are you talking?Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyRhoads
100 years?....1000 years?
Oh, you just mean primitive methods?
Yeah sorry just the method for making it. I'm worried i'd like to make some but how can you be sure you've got it to 160? A temp gun? I have a big chief smoker but I think that only goes to 140, and I was wanting to make it outside replicating how it would need to be done in a primitive situation.
I have a Polder digital thermometer that let's me monitor the temperature of the oven/smoker as well as the internal temp of the meat. If you are in a survival situation you are probably not going to smoke/dry anything. If you do happen to capture some meat via snare or trap you'll want to cook it over a fire to make certain it's safe to eat rather than take several hours and your energy to construct some type of smoker or hang it out to dry where it could attract other predators.
http://www.gas-grills.org/images/pic...timer-e984.jpg
Not looking so much at survival. More like primitive homesteading maybe. And say you shot a moose, would you still cook all that up or try to make it so you can store it?
Mea Culpa. I thought you were talking survival. Homesteading would be different.
I have made primitive jerky many times as demonstration at historic sites and in skills workshops.
First, jerk is not cooked, it is dried and smoked. You never let the meat get hot enough to cook or you defeat the purpose. 160 degrees has distroyed the preservation of the meat and set up a whole different set of baceria to work against.
Jerk has been a staple preservation method since the first human found out the meat he laid on a rock untill it dried out did not kill him. Probably since he ran the first lion off a dead sun dried carcass.
Quit turning up your nose, you eat rare steak and have to pour the blood off half way through! I have seen it too many times to even pay attention to the parisites and diseases issue in a jerky discussion. If it does not count at the steakhouse it does not count over the campfire.
The drying and smoking cures the meat and the smoke is partly done to keep flies away from the meat as well as add flavor.
It does take all day to jerk meat. Slice it as thin as possible and salt it if you have salt. Place it on a rack or grid well above the heat of the fire and use wood that produces generous smoke. I like to have the grid about 2 feet above the fire and I keep the flames down to a minimum by using punkwood or wet bark as my main fuel. If the fire under the meat is so hot it hurts my hand it is too hot.
As it dries on one side and becomes brittle, turn it over and continue. When the meat is black and breaks in shreads when bent it is ready.
No it will not look like what you get at the corner store.
You can only jerk meats with low fat content, mostly from ungulates. Fish works very well. Pork, bear or rodents can not be jerked. this counts out rabbit jerky, sorry.
Randy, if you PM me I will get you some references and better instructions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUK3kTHPblc I was going off this and other similar ways. This guy did it almost straight outa the Tom Brown book. I get how to do it just not what makes the bugs/eggs safe to eat. Why would rabbit be out, it's extremely low in fat?
That's nonsense. I make jerky all the time and and heat it to 160. It does not destroy the preservation of the meat. And you cannot set up a whole different set of bacteria since 160F kills all bacteria.Quote:
Originally Posted by KY
"What temperature is needed to kill bacteria in meats and poultry?
When meat is cooked to 160°F,E. coli O157 and other pathogens are killed.
http://foodsafety.wsu.edu/consumers/faq3.htm
Further sources:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/...fety/index.asp
Smoking is a different means of preservation than drying. Hot smoking (using a fire source) actually cooks the meat. Cold smoking is done over low heat and over a long period of time. Cold smoking should only be used when meat has been fermented, salted or cured. Otherwise, you run the risk that bacteria will grow on the meat.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nc..._postproc.html
Great info thanks Rick!
Well, I can tell you Alton Brown doesn't cook his jerky! He lays the meat strips on furnace filters and sets them atop a box fan with no heat at all. One thing we tend to forget with bacteria is that they need water to live and reproduce. Once to desiccate them they can't do much (at least the worst pathogens). This is water we refer to when we mention AWG (water activity). It's the reason that you can keep rice on the shelf in a cool dry place for years while a loaf of bread will mold. Salt also inhibits bacteria, as does acidity. Most jerky marinades are very salty, and that gives you two things (along with removing water) that kill the bugs.
In the second link I posted above it says...
"Marinating meat doesn't make raw meat safe. "Marination alone did not result in significant reduction of the pathogen compared with whole beef slices that were not marinated," concluded the study."
Ya'll can do what you want. I've followed the advice of the links above and have yet to suffer a food borne illness with making jerky. I'm of the, "better safe than sorry" clan than lives two hollows over.
Rick acording to your "government sources" there is no such thing as jerky that does not need refregeration! This is why the meat must not go up to "cooking temp". The dehydratiuon removes the water needed for bacteria growth, the cooking counters that process and sets up the need for refregeration. Cooked food must be refregerated, dried meat will stay usabe for over a year, fruits 3 years and veggies up to 5 years. Even my commercial food dehydrator does not get up to 140 degrees.
I am a bit aprenhensive about taking food preservation advice from the folks that do not want amnyone preserving food long term to start with. Their temperature limit is a blatent untruth.
I hate to argeue with such renouned sources but in this case I know they are dead wrong. These are the same folk that give us $18,000 worth of safety equipment on a $20,000 car!
None of the primitive cultures had any equipment to detirmine the temp of their drying process, yet they used drying for thousands of years with good results, often with no fire anywhere near the drying racks, espically when drying fish on an industrial scale. I have made jerky dozens of times without "cooking" the meat and it has been successful on each attempt with no food poisioning or illness. I have fed whole museum staffs on occasion and never had a problem.
Again I stress that "raw meat" is eaten on a regular basis (sushi, rare steak, steak tartar), on purpose, yet each time the subject of jerky comes up this "cook the meat" argument is thrown about like it was a valid consideration by the same folk that will eat bugs and grubs to prove their point. and the "prepared by trained professionals" argument is a crock. At the local resterants the buss boys take turns slicing the fish.
If you wish to argue with multiple sources....so be it. My "cooked" jerky lasts at least six months because I've tested it that long. A lot of folks on here make jerky in the oven at the lowest setting, which on most is 150F IF the thermostat is correct. My oven runs a little hotter so by separate oven thermometer I know my lowest setting is 175F. As I said, do what you want. I'm a fully paid member of the "better safe than sorry" clan.
It's been my experience that homemade jerky has a shelf life of about a week.......well.......at least there were no specimens to test after a week.:innocent:
I thought it was to eat today....have no referance to it lasting any length of time.
This has been my experience as well. I devestate my supply plenty on my own, but the kids are like wolves on raw meat. Even my hiding places have been compromised.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashdive123
Properly jerking the meat is the main step to prohibit the growth of bacteria and smoking keeps bugs away and enhances flavor,black pepper in the old days was also a way to keep alot of the animals out of it.I make 5 pounds of venison jerky and the kids have it gone in a week,my problem too I never get enough,they have all my hiding places too.
The government is just covering its ***, that's all. Any institution, for the most part, is going to tell you the *safest* way to do things. Same reason restaurants have warnings about consuming *under cooked* meats. I eat steak medium, which has its center below the 160 degree mark (somewhere around 140). I've also gotten food poisoning from chicken before, which was supposedly cooked to the 160 degree mark. So based on experience, I've had better luck with the so called unsafe foods.
The drying process will kill worms cause they need moisture to live. It will also kill off and inhibit future growth of bacteria for the same reason.
But what about worm eggs? If I was to dry out some raccoon without cooking you don't believe a rouge egg that landed on the meat while cleaning would infect me?
Believe me I want to do it, I just want to get the facts and learn as much as I can before I do.
Howdy folks! I'm new to this board but I do have some experience with this topic.
I have enjoyed dried venison (white tail deer) jerky for 40+ years. I remember watching my grandmother on many occasions as she prepared it, and have tried to repeat her methods with modest success.
Note: This process should be safe for any type of venison or lean beef, but I would not recommend it for poultry, swine, or any member of the rodent family because of possible trichinella/salmonella contamination. I know of people who use smokers, ovens and dehydrators and they all work too.
OMA'S CLOTHES LINE JERKY
I recommend starting with a modest first batch so you can then tweak it to your particular tastes if needed.
Take 1-2 pounds of lean venison cut into roughly 3/4 X 3/4 or larger strips of whatever length you desire.
Place into a saltwater brine and soak overnight (the brine is salty enough when it will float an egg).
Remove from brine solution and rinse well.
Use a sterile large craft-type sewing needle, string the meat thru one end with a cotton twine and place the meat strips onto the twine (allow enough length to seperate the pieces and for tying up the ends).
Now generously coat the meat with black pepper & hang outside in full sun for 1-3 days until pieces are firm and dry to the touch. The dryer the better but I usually start "sampling" on day 2.
In Texas this method works best on sunny cool days (40-50 F) with low humidity and a light breeze. You may have to adjust the duration for your conditions. We seldom have any left after a few days so I can't address the long term shelf-life. When my Oma made it, she would bag and freeze it if she wanted to store it long term. I don't know that freezing it was necessary but if I kept it at room temperature I would keep it in a closed container to keep it as dry as possible. Observe the early drying process to make sure insects aren't contaminating the meat (the pepper should prevent this and the salt act to preserve the meat).
Bon appetit!
Well, I swan. If you're gonna sew it back together why on earth did you cut it up in the first place? Some folks make no sense.
Maybe I didn't make the point clearly, so here goes my attempt to clarify. There is no sewing involved! The needle simply speeds up the process of hanging the meat to dry. The strips are pierced only once and near an end to keep the meat from folding over on itself during the drying process. The string provides the medium to suspend the meat in the drying process. And finally, you slice the meat into strips to reduce the time required to marinate in the brine and dry. Of course you could skip all these steps and just make sausage.......but that's another topic.
I understood. It was joke. It's a good recipe and a good post.
So, no fire/smoke required? I'm really wanting to try this!
Cast-iron, there is alot of tongue and cheek humor and sarcasm on this board. Which is one reason I enjoy comin here:) I also brine and marinade my jerky but I smoke it at a very low temp until almost brittle. So far nobody has died from it and everybody begs for it. If I was trying to do it with something other than red meat I would probably be concered. I use a medium size texas style smoker, I have also had good success with 10 or twelve charcoal briquets. It's normally a 2 day affair for me. I couldn't hang it in the breeze.....too many critters.
People have been salting and smoking meats forever, including pork. Think of old fashioned farm smoke houses and curing hams or bacon. I think people are just too paranoid.....and it seems to be in the last 2 or 3 generations. Although people also used to cut the moldy spot off cheese and eat what was still good......cheese is different nowdays if it has a spot u just gotta throw it away.
Ya'all are making me hungry!
Cast iron, don't let yer leg come off in Rick's hand, okay?
Uh oh. I still do this lol. What are the dangers of that.....Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftyer1
Thanks for the clarifications. It's hard for me to interpret the intended "tone" of the written word. My paternal grandmother (Oma) was a great individual and an even better cook (I know, I'm biased) . Admittedly, I acted too hastily in defending her recipe. I'm a left-handed Texas Aggie with Polish heritage who was born with blonde hair.......I'm used to a good ribbing!
Randy.....absolutely none that I know of, but most folks just throw it and buy new.
Sigh, meat is fine irregardless of all the crap you hear. A brisket, cooked, and left overnight on the porch just needs the fly eggs scraped off and it's fine.
Pork? Trichinosis is gone and has been for 40 yrs. You can eat raw pork just like you can eat raw beef.
Making note never to eat brisket at Winter's house.
With the advent of more and more folks raising their own animals the trichinosis problem is bound to return. And you can bet wild pork has it. Little porkers in environmentally controlled housing is clean.
Yeah i'm ok Winter....that's a little much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysticercosis
We have a huge feral hog problem here in Texas. It is not too uncommon to have a deer hunt interrupted by a pack of the critters. I've bagged a couple of small ones and they made some of the best pork bbq I've ever had. But I assure you the meat was thorougly cooked to 160 degrees before consumption. Trichinosis has been virtually eradicated within the domestic swine industry but I assure you is still exists in the feral populations here as well as in other mammals namely members of the rodent family. There are an estimated 10,000 cases worldwide annually and I don't plan on becomming part of that statistic.
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/epi.html
I spent 8 years perfecting my bbq brisket (professionally) and I'd be happy to explain the basics if there's an interest here.
Oh, be assured.....there is always a keen interest in BBQ.
Indeed! We never tire of BBQ porn.
For those interested in the moldy cheese subject, Just remember that cutting the "mold" off cheese is only removing the fruiting bodies of the mold. The cheese still contains the mycelium which injects enzymes into the cheese to break it down so the mold can use the nutrients to grow. The mycelium typically grows much larger than the fruiting bodies. An analogy might be the root network on a tree is as large as the above ground tree. I'm not suggesting the mycelium is bad for you just explaining that you are still consuming part of the mold unless you are cutting away a lot of the cheese.
<snicker, snort> Rick said cutting the cheese.
Really? I've been studying mycology as a hobby since I was 15, and never heard of this. I thought the mold growing on cheese was the mycellium. Isn't that mold the vegative portion?