Tried my hand at the forge! It isn't as easy as it looks!

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The forge worked great...Me I hammered till I was sore and the metal didn't move much...But it moved. I'll need some more experience at this. Going to be some real nice knives when i am done....Camp10 sent me the steel! It is hard as a rock!

Looks like you got a good start going , nice forge set-up. Have fun hammering out a work of art.

Cowboy - i fixed the title.

Also...

You do realize that the heated metal looks pink don't you? Just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by welderguy

Looks like you got a good start going , nice forge set-up. Have fun hammering out a work of art.

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Thanks for the encouragement! I enjoyed every minute! First time I cut loose in awhile! I plan on these being my best work yet...Camp10 sent me the steel and it is early 1800"s period so I want to get it perfect this time! Look for more posts as I go.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Cowboy - i fixed the title.

Also...

You do realize that the heated metal looks pink don't you? Just sayin'.

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Well it just might look pink to you...The stuff seems durn hard to me! Thanks Crash!

Looks good though. It's on my "to try in the near future" list. Got my anvil, so I'll be banging soon. Hmmmmm. That didn't sound right.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Looks good though. It's on my "to try in the near future" list. Got my anvil, so I'll be banging soon. Hmmmmm. That didn't sound right.

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It is alot of work Crash...Stock removal...you know the part where the little (grit gets in your underwear)..doesn't seem so bad anymore~!

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Originally Posted by COWBOYSURVIVAL

It is alot of work Crash...Stock removal...you know the part where the little (grit gets in your underwear)..doesn't seem so bad anymore~!

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Well.......

Depends


On how snug your belt is.:innocent:

yeah, i don't grind in my underwear personally, but i could see how it might cause a guy some trouble.

cowboy: are you returning the workpiece to the heat often enough? it gets real hard in a hurry if you don't.

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Originally Posted by canid

yeah, i don't grind in my underwear personally, but i could see how it might cause a guy some trouble.
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Make sure Rick takes note of the no gringing in underware I dont beleive he stands a chance in that thong of his

Nice start Cowboy! That steel is tough stuff! Keep your heats good when you forge it. Steel back then was folded with iron and forge welded together. It is strong and tough but can be brittle to work hot and if you try to move it as it is cooling it might flake a little on you....guess how I know this? Cant wait to see the finished knives!

Nice! Have fun and keep us posted on the progress.

Brake drum forge, nice sturdy design. I like it.

It looks like you are heating on top of the coal/charcoal. Your stock should be in the coal were the high heat is. Heating will go much faster.

I agree that the hammering is surprisingly fatiguing, not like hammering a nail is it.

It looks like you are trying to thin out its thickness. I use the cross pene of a five lb hammer to start. On that piece I would strike the pene perpendicular to the narrow drawing out to the end. Work from the end and work in. When the piece is near the thickness you desire, use the flat of the hammer to smooth out the the marks from the pene. This is more hard work and less stock removal. I can try to take some pics of what I mean on thursday. I'm away from the forge right now.

Thanks for all of the advice! Especially about tightening my belt or is it that some of us have a dunlap that helps prevent the grit problem. A couple of things I learned. When mounting your anvil or in my case a vice untill I can find a deal on a good anvil. It needs to be the optimum height for hammerin which seems to be much lower than mine is mounted. I think that is what it made it much more work. In the above step I was trying to widen the blade width and start thinning the edge. One more thing I learned (Wear Safety Glasses!) I got a spark in my eye and hurt pretty good! Another tip if you do get steel in your eye A slice of patatoe work wonders for the pain and for removing the steel. I got it out that way. Camp is spot on about this steel it is alot harder to work than 5160.

If you look for a used anvil, take a hammer and check that you get a rebound from it's face. As silly as it sounds, the rebound helps the return of the hammer in the up direction, it is less fatiguing then one that doesn't rebound. If the face is in good condition $1.50 per lb is an ok price. It would have to be a pretty good anvil for me to spend $2 a lb.

Harbor Freight has ok anvils at a decent price unfortunately, their on line catalogue only lists a 55# anvil, a bit small.

Two companies I buy tools from are Centaur Forge and Pihe Tools. Sit down before you look at the prices for anvils, new ones are not cheep.

http://www.centaurforge.com/
http://www.piehtoolco.com/

Hern Iron works also makes anvils. I only have fired their cannons and know their work by good reputation.
http://www.hernironworks.com/blacksmith.html

As for a stand for the anvil, I use a pine log 16" in diameter about 28" high. You can make a stand by bolting 6, 6"x6" land scape timbers cut to your desired height. DRill through and bolt three together at the top and bottom with 1" threaded rod and a couple of nuts and washers. Then do the same thing in the other direction to bolt the three triples together. There are other options these are the two I have done.

Good used cheap anvils aren't easy to find. Before WWII every farm had one. Then scrap metal became in demand. E-bay usually has them:http://cgi.ebay.com/anvil-blacksmith...item439d32b6d9 Shipping costs would be high. Sometimes Craigslist has them. I found mine at a farm auction, you could try that approach. It took me a couple of years looking.

[QUOTE=gryffynklm;193820] Two companies I buy tools from are Centaur Forge and Pihe Tools. Sit down before you look at the prices for anvils, new ones are not cheep.

http://www.centaurforge.com/
http://www.piehtoolco.com/

Hern Iron works also makes anvils. I only have fired their cannons and know their work by good reputation.
http://www.hernironworks.com/blacksmith.html QUOTE]

Good links. One day I may need to send for some good coal. What coal do you use?

At Least your attempting the skill.
I just came in from my garage and looking at my old saw blades from my chop saw and need to ask crash a question.
Is saw blades from skill saws and chop saws already tempered enough for a good knife?

I have bituminous and Anthracite coal The anthracite is a bit cleaner and doesn't stink as much. I've also used coke but it is a hot burning refined coal, my forge might not like the heat. Coke bowls are heavier then the coal forge I have. Coke also burns clean. When i Illinois I get coal from Centaur Forge

http://www.centaurforge.com/Coal-Coke/products/277/

When in WV, I go down this road turn left and fill a bucket or two. I think its anthracite but has a bit of derbies mixed in.

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Originally Posted by gryffynklm

Brake drum forge, nice sturdy design. I like it.

It looks like you are heating on top of the coal/charcoal. Your stock should be in the coal were the high heat is. Heating will go much faster.

I agree that the hammering is surprisingly fatiguing, not like hammering a nail is it.

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Actually you are seeing two oak boards a top the coals, used as baffles. The steel was heated within the coals and din't take long. i used a mix of hardwood and charcoal. I only have a 3 lb. hammer and as Camp said this is some tough steel. I'd be interested to see pics of your setup and process as well. Thanks.

Coal, charcoal, propane..... Its all fuel. I use the five lb when I have to do some heavy beating like the the start of hawk head.

Rail Spike Tomahawk
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ad.php?t=10036

Most of the work I do is with the 3 lb. The coal forge is in pieces from the last smithing demo I did in the fall. I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. For me smithing is a few times a year sort of thing I hesitate to call myself a blacksmith. An "S" hook here or there a special purpose tool like a sheeps foot or musket tool is about it. Certainly not a blade smith like the made blades we have seen. here lately.

My son is the active smith in the family. I will be back in IL, by the weekend, thats were the propane Forge Master B is located. I'll try to post pics of both.

Here is a better pic of heating the blade in the forge...

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...L/DSCN2341.jpg

Here you get a better feel for the heat produced!

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for those interested, i saw a youtube video the other day on building a forge in under 10 mins. Never tried it myself, but looks possible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfkppiIxztg

Hey there ph34r - how about forging your way on over to the Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...splay.php?f=14

Well I resorted to stock removal to shape it. I did get the blade thinned and widened. A little more shaping to do before profling the blade.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/...L/DSCN2364.jpg

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I may go back to the forge and try and draw the edge of the blade down some.

Dang That is really shaping up , that is great work.

Great progress.

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Originally Posted by welderguy

Dang That is really shaping up , that is great work.

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I am afraid to hammer too much with what Camp said about Iron and folding, flaking. It seams like it is intact. Keep in mind as i go most of my work is done with an angle grinder and a hand file. I have some Tiger Maple for the scales. Just postin' as I go pics.

I enjoy seeing the progress thanks for taking the time to share that.

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Originally Posted by welderguy

I enjoy seeing the progress thanks for taking the time to share that.

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Yeah it is a long way from finished but, I do enjoy sharin' the steps. It gets more of us to want to try it and I benefit by watching theirs and yours!

CS, I think the flaking Camp 10 was talking about is called scale. It forms because when you heat the metal impurities come to the surface. The impurities contain carbon how much I don't know. The scale can easily be removed during the forging process by using a wire brush. When I get to final shaping i give extra heat and brush the scale from the piece and the anvil before I hammer to avoid the scale leaving an impression on the metal surface. The scale does little to the integrity of the metal besides loosing some carbon. The nice thing about coal and charcoal is that it does a bit of a balance. This is the only flaking while forging I have encountered.

Camp 10 if I misunderstood the flaking you are talking about please describe what you have encountered.

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Originally Posted by gryffynklm

CS, I think the flaking Camp 10 was talking about is called scale. It forms because when you heat the metal impurities come to the surface. The impurities contain carbon how much I don't know. The scale can easily be removed during the forging process by using a wire brush. When I get to final shaping i give extra heat and brush the scale from the piece and the anvil before I hammer to avoid the scale leaving an impression on the metal surface. The scale does little to the integrity of the metal besides loosing some carbon. The nice thing about coal and charcoal is that it does a bit of a balance. This is the only flaking while forging I have encountered.

Camp 10 if I misunderstood the flaking you are talking about please describe what you have encountered.

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I should have been more clear, I am not refering to the scale that is always formed during heating the steel to red hot. This particular peice is not modern material, Camp explaines it earlier in the post. What it is, is that this material probably has iron folded in through forge welding long ago to strengthen the material for it original intended use. The material is derived from very old carriage springs.

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Originally Posted by COWBOYSURVIVAL

I should have been more clear, I am not refering to the scale that is always formed during heating the steel to red hot. This particular peice is not modern material, Camp explaines it earlier in the post. What it is, is that this material probably has iron folded in through forge welding long ago to strengthen the material for it original intended use. The material is derived from very old carriage springs.

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Yup. I didnt meant to have you worry about working it though. I only noticed this when I tried to work it after it had cooled a little to much. What I later read was that the old process for making these was to fold in steel and iron and that they could flake apart. I didnt ruin any blades working with the steel but I did chip it a little trying to work a heat cycle just a little to far. The knives themselves are very tough and hold an edge real well.

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Originally Posted by Camp10

Yup. I didnt meant to have you worry about working it though. I only noticed this when I tried to work it after it had cooled a little to much. What I later read was that the old process for making these was to fold in steel and iron and that they could flake apart. I didnt ruin any blades working with the steel but I did chip it a little trying to work a heat cycle just a little to far. The knives themselves are very tough and hold an edge real well.

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It is going very well! Even annealed it is hard. My files are cussing me...But it is coming together. Sure would be nice to have a big belt sander about now. I am enjoying every minute..Thanks Camp!

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Just some blind man's work...Still a work in progress! Tried my hand at filework! Goto say it is fun! Try it~!

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Looks outstanding CS.

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Originally Posted by crashdive123

Looks outstanding CS.

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Thanks Crash! I had more time than usual on my hands. I enjoyed every second of making this one...well except the part with the steel in my eye! This one will be with me a long time!

That is very impressive work , I like the sheath and fire steel too. That is a definite keeper.

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Originally Posted by welderguy

That is very impressive work , I like the sheath and fire steel too. That is a definite keeper.

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Thanks Welderguy!

Camp10 sent me the steel and seeing as how it was so old, I gave it everything I have! It ain't finished yet!