A 10mm out of a 6" semi-auto with a modular optic system. The claim is ballistics in the 41 magnum performance from a 17 round stock handgun. With a zero parallax optic.
What would you replace with this and what wouldn't you?
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A 10mm out of a 6" semi-auto with a modular optic system. The claim is ballistics in the 41 magnum performance from a 17 round stock handgun. With a zero parallax optic.
What would you replace with this and what wouldn't you?
I dunno. Interesting gun academically. I can't imagine what I'd do with it if I had one, though. It looks way too big for CCW, and I'm not sure 10mm is legal for big game here. I don't really hunt anymore anyways. As a "survival gun" I suppose it would have some merit, but I'd rather have a rifle or carbine. I suppose that it would be a decent hunting gun (where legal) and a good woods bumming gun as long as there aren't big bears around.
If I were to enter into the world of Glock....most likely be a "that's different and cool"....I want one....Deal.
Would not replace anything, would simply be an addition.
Now just sayin'....If I still had any, BCA......it would be...
Big country side arm...Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag,
Local woods carry and deer,... Ruger SP100 .357
Bumming.... Ruger Single 6 .22
Retreat and haul butt...Ruger P85 9mm shoot back behind you (big mag)......
Any of the rest....just for fun.
I wrote three replies to this post and erased them all last night.
Back again this morning with a clear head.
I am not a Glock guy.
First, they are fudging on the ballistics. In the heavy bullet weights of 200 grains or more, which are the void these guns fill, the 10mm does not come near the .41 mag. It can only be achieved by selection of one specific specialty load from one maker and not the overall available ammunition from all sources.
Second, this is a BIG gun, it has to be if it holds 17 10mm rounds and has a 6" barrel. It is not going to fit everyone.
Third, not everyone can handle the 10mm, so it is going to be a specialty gun.
I am sure this will be the darling of the combat competition crowd, since it allows them to hit major power factor while downloading the powder charge and have a built in optic so they can shoot a race gun in factory production category.
It is a very specialized firearm, and I already own my share of specialized firearms. Like Hunter, the concept of having to do away with one gun in order to have another eludes me. I do not have to either maintain a quota or ask permission.
One of my big fears is being killed by a burgeler in the middle of the night while trying to decide which gun to grab from the sock drawer.
I would give up or trade nothing I own for one, except for the C9 HiPoint I seldom admit to owning or the broken H&R pistol that only shoots when it wants too.
I too would trade or eliminate nothing.....just not wired that way.
I Four (Hunter, KY, Crash being the first three) Not trading for a new one. I have looked pretty hard at the FN 5.57 just for fun.
Spare bedrooms were created to store additional firearms. I don't need anything like a 10mm. My hands and shoulders don't do hard recoil any more.
Thanks, for the reply. Most folks didn't get that you can keep all your guns. LOL I was asking what it could replace.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyratshooter
You have to understand what the 10mm was originally to visualize it's intent.
It was originally the brain-fart of Jeff Cooper. His intent was to create a cartridge that fired a 200 grain bullet at 1000fps (IPSC major power factor) and would fit inside the basic frame of his favorite pistol of that time, the Chech75.
The largest cartridge they could push through the design, after slightly enlarging the grip, was a 10mm case, so that is what it wound up.
The result was the gun made famous by Sonny Crockett of Miami Vice fame, the Bren Ten.
As soon as the hand-loaders saw that huge empty case they started filling it up with Blue Dot and pushing it to the limits of the design and created a new "magnum" auto-pistol where one had never been intended.
The Bren Ten, carrying the Raven trademark of the Gunsight training facility then owned by Col Cooper, was only in its original production form for a few months and was about to "go under" when Colt saw fit to introduce the Delta Elite in 10mm, saving the cartridge from almost immediate extinction.
Folks that could not find nor afford a Bren Ten scooped up the cheaper Colt product as fast as the factory could produce them. Yep, Colt was producing and selling pistols to the public back then! The Delta Elite was very much on the order of a S&W 19. It was rated for the high power cartridge but would last much longer if one downloaded the fodder.
There were people buying Delta Elites who had never held a pistol in their grubby little hands and the shop I was working in bore the brunt of one lawsuit when a newbie took his new toy home and shot himself through the foot with a full charge 180gn hollow point. It was very messy both legally and physically.
With the cartridge now pretty well established it drew the interest of the FBI, who were looking for a replacement for the .357 snubbies that were leaving them severely under gunned in the new world of high capacity magazine pistols. The 9mm was not enough for them and the .45 was too much for some of the female agents, so they tried out the 10mm in both full power and reduced velocity forms. The low velocity load of 180 grain bullet at 1000fps seemed to be exactly what they wanted as a single all purpose gun for each and every agent, but not in the Colt firearm.
Since S&W was providing the ammo for these tests they asked the simple question, why not reduce the case length and stick the round inside a normal 9mm size frame. The .40S&W was born.
So back to the question of what does a 10mm replace. It does not replace a .41 mag, nor a .44 mag. It is about equal to a .357 without the versatility, since the .357 can be loaded equally in all the bullet weights. It is about equal to a hot loaded 38-40, which has been obsolete for about 100 years.
What it replaces is a round that was never produced by the factory. It replaces a .45acp with a 200 grain SWC bullet loaded to 1000fps, the load Cooper always favored as the perfect defense load from a .45.
Since I already have firearms in .45acp, and about half my loads are for a 200gn SWC loaded to 950fps (close enough), I already have what the 10mm was intended to be, so I feel no real drive to acquire one.
And there would be new dies and bullet molds and magazines.......
Not for me.... Only handgun I can see myself purchasing for actual use outside "that's different and cool" would be the G43 single stack 9 for an easier carry than my G23 in the summer. Although even that's not hard to conceal even with board shorts and a t shirt.
I guess it couldn't replace anything that I have now. It's too big for CCW so all my HK handguns are safe. I don't hunt nor would it be a good big game gun. It wouldn't be my notion of a good HD gun either; too much blast and recoil with full-boat loads, too slow with followup shots; with lighter loads it's just a bigger, more awkward .40 cal. Ballistics-wise it's more potent than my Pistol Caliber Carbines (a Beretta Storm in 9mm and an HK USC in .45 ACP) but much harder to shoot accurately and at speed. It doesn't seem to fill any role I have to offer.
Now, in a carbine I would be interested in a 10mm! An HK UMP or roller lock MP5 in 10mm would be the CQB "Hammer of Thor"! Lots of power but easier to control than in a handgun. High capacity. And I could shoot it on the indoor range at my LGS.
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