Winter hike.

[LostOutrider]

I'm gearing up for a cold hike this time. 40+ miles on the Buffalo River Trail (and assorted offshoots and such). The weather is going to be between 20 and 40 degrees with some snow, some showers. About the only thing that'll call off the hike is freezing rain - so we're all watching the weather.

The plan is to start on the 28th and come off the trail on the 31st. I've had a couple of backpacking threads before, with an eye toward dealing with different weather conditions. If there's interest, I'll break down the gear for a wet winter hike.

I do have an early Christmas present to use this time: a Clark North American jungle hammock.

[Stargazer]

Sounds like a fun trip.Stay safe and take lots of pics for those who cant go.

[crashdive123]

Enjoy the trip. Hammock in winter? Brave man! Stay safe, and pictures - don't forget the pictures.

[Mertell]

Sure would like to see that hammock in use....

[LostOutrider]

Yeah, me too. I am a die-hard trail hanger. I've managed to convert one of the guys I hike with, but the two going with me next week are bringing in a tent, ground cloth, ground pads, etc. While they're shuffling around muffling farts at each other, cramped in that tent, I'm going to be gently swaying to sleep.

I'll have the NA hammock, a 0-degree mummy bag, and a fleece blanket.

I fully intend to stay dry and warm, even when the snowy rain is falling. That is the fun of the challenge. Warm will be the easiest, but I've got a Simms Watershed jacket that I use fly fishing that is a lightweight, hooded, gore tex shell layer.

I tend to go extremely cheap on most of my backpacking goods - buying used, making it myself, going with mil surplus, etc. There are three things, though, that I saved my pennies and splurged on: the hammock, my boots, and that jacket. If you can't sleep well, your feet hurt, and you're sopping wet - then nothing about backpacking stays fun for long. You take care of those three things, though, and you're golden.

[finallyME]

What are you using for under insulation in the hammock?

[Rick]

And the bears are forced to unwrap their ice cream treat. So messy.

[Barefoot]

i have slept in a hammock in the winter several times. your feet get cold a lot more than tent/cot camping because of the poor blood flow to your feet due to the incline. also, there is no insulation on your backside which makes a very very big difference.

2 things that really help out are: making the hammock very tight so that the droop is less (feet/head stay more level) and putting a thermarest INSIDE your sleeping bag with you.

without these 2 things, my 0degree bag keeps me warm enough but not comfortable in 30 or less weather.

i have hammock camped in 15 degree weather before. not the most comfortable night but doable.

enjoy ;)

[finallyME]

You can take hammocks really low, below freezing, if you have the right gear. I know a few Canadians that sleep in the winter in hammocks, although they do have their limits. The main concern is insulation underneath. But, if you have to string your hammock tight for better blood flow to the feet, you either have the wrong hammock, or you don't know how to sleep in it properly. Most high end hammocks (and a lot of cheap DIY hammocks) allow you to sleep flat, without stringing tight. For insulation, there are several schools of thought. You can just put a pad under you, and between the hammock. A simple ccf pad is good to a little below 20F. You can also have an underquilt. Or you can use a peapod. Or you can have a built in underquilt, or built in slot for your ccf so it isn't between you and the hammock. You can also combine any of the above. Also, you can hang low and pile insulation (like leaves) between you and the ground.

[LostOutrider]

The Clark North American is supposed to be a 4-season hammock.

http://www.junglehammock.com/store/product.php?productid=1&cat=0&page=1&featured

I'll let you know how true it is. Essentially, this hammock is made with large pockets to hold air along the sides and bottom - and it has a rainfly that wraps around the whole thing to create another windbreak air pocket. Inside the hammock, I'll be in a 0-degree mummy bag and sleeping in two layers: thermal underwear + fleece layer. I also have a fleece blanket, but I usually end up with that balled under my head as a pillow.

[finallyME]

Well, it says it doesn't need a pad. If I were you, I would bring a ccf pad anyways. Then try and not use it. If you don't need it, great, if you do, you have it. Plus ccf pads are very light, and come in handy if you have to sleep on the ground for some unseen reason. Tell us how it turns out.

[tipacanoe]

I would think that a few packages of disposable heat packs would help make sleeping easier.

[tacmedic]

LostOutrider- How much does your hammock weigh?

[LostOutrider]

2lbs, 5 oz.

We're off the trail. Weather came in and we decided to keep it short - 26 miles - so that we could come off today before it got slick and snowy.

That hammock is worth every stinking penny. The first night was about 16 degrees outside, clear sky and terrible windy. I set it up as per the instructions and extended the rain fly - spread out my polar fleece blanket under my 0-degree mummy bag. Zipped up all snug wearing two layers on my legs, three on my torso. My toes were cold from sitting outside cooking, so I stuck a 10-hour handwarmer in each sock and went straight to sleep. Woke up once around midnight to a coyote chorus. Frost had formed on the outside of the hammock, but inside the noseeum netting was misted from my breathing.

Second night was in the high 20's with rain turning to snow. We were camped up on a knob, but the wind wasn't nearly as bad and we were able to build a fire. Instead of extending the rain fly out, I used the velcro to close it around my hammock. I woke up sweating and had to take off my outer layer and sock hat.

There are definite "cold spots" at the peak on both ends where the zipper didn't close completely, but if I sealed the rain fly then it wasn't as noticeable.

I'll talk more about body temperature regulation in another post. Right now, I'm being welcomed by two boys who missed their daddy these past three days.

[crashdive123]

Sounds like a good trip.

[Rick]

Good for you. I'm glad you're back safe and sound.

[LostOutrider]

I'm setting up a photobucket acct now to share some of the pictures. My camera ran out of juice mid-hike, but my friend will upload his in a few days and you can see some more shots.

Here is part of the trail:
http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad241/LostOutrider/SANY0704.jpg

And here is a triple waterfall:
http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad241/LostOutrider/SANY0729.jpg

I feel I should apologize for the size, but they just beg not to be sized any smaller. The water down below on the first one is the Buffalo River.

[smittysurvival]

im all for the hikes but im not much for the three day stuff. maybe a two day. sounds real nice. but your looking a bit close to the edge in that first pic buddy. looks kinda icey

[crashdive123]

Looks great LO. Thanks for letting us have a look.

[LostOutrider]

So let's talk about cold weather hiking. You bug-outers and the few non-greatwhitenortherners we have on this forum might pick up a few things. I sure did.

This was my first winter hike. I've hiked in all the other seasons, but always seemed to travel to see family during any winter off-days. The original plan was ~40 miles spread out over four days (two half and two full). A call to an outfitter on the Buffalo River led us to believe that enough freezing precip would fall tonight that we scaled back the hike to two nights, three days (one full, two half).

I overdressed. Plain and simple. I was not prepared for the amount of heat my body would give off. Started out with three layers: thermal, fleece, and windbreaker. Fleece neck gaiter, wool cap, polyester 'stretch' gloves. Two pair socks: liner and basic wool hiking socks. Gortex hightop hiking boots.

Before the first mile was behind us, I had zipped the legs off of my outer layer, stowed the Simms Watershed jacket in the pack, pushed my sleeves up to my elbows, and pulled off the gaiter. A 180 lb man carrying a 35 lb pack over moderate terrain going about 2 mph burns approx 1000 cal/hour. I'm 175, had a 45 lb pack, and the BRT isn't what I'd call moderate. I don't think it ever got above freezing. I was carrying water in 1 qt gatorade bottles in an insulated canteen pouch and it was trying to freeze up on me. As long as you kept moving, though, you stayed hot. Not warm, hot. We'd stop long enough to scarf down a Snickers bar or some jerky and let the sweat dry before humping it up again.

I tend not to lose weight on the trail since I intentionally scarf down as much high-fat, high-sugar food as I can. Hey, when else can you eat crap like that without guilt? I lost about 4 lbs, though, and I was constantly shoving food in my mouth. Feeding the furnace.

While I didn't eat all the food I packed, I did end up wishing I'd packed different food for the cold hiking. I needed more quick-burn energy than I expected. Drinking near-frozen, icy water meant that my body had to expend even more calories to process it. Same with the cold candy bars and energy bars. Funky as it may seem, it helped to shove the next rest stop's snack under the shirt or in the first layer to let the body heat melt it.

The only time I was glad for the extra clothing was when we stopped for camp. We all try to leave as little trace as possible, so all cooking is done with fuel-pellet stoves. No fire the first night because, especially on established trails, you just don't make new fire rings. Clutters up the place. Soon as you drop that pack, better bundle up tight.

(more in a bit - time to read a book to the boys)

[LostOutrider]

Do not underestimate the value of that warmer gear you enjoyed in the evening. Things an happen that make it life saving.

Well, yeah. I definitely was glad to have it when we stopped moving for the night. I guess my point was how unprepared I was for the raw amount of heat my body would generate. I didn't anticipate standing mostly uncovered in below-freezing air and running hot as a furnace. As for life threatening, we were on an established trail, also, that intersected several roads - came close to a couple of farmsteads - and had at least two ranger stations within reasonable distance. It wasn't the back country of Alaska by any means. But, then again, you can freeze to death in your back yard if you're unprepared enough.

[neondog]

you can freeze to death in your back yard if you're unprepared enough.

Absolutely! And don't assume you've got a three hour window of opportunity to remedy the situation either. I came VERY close to a hospital bill or worse from the effects of a one hour drive on a fairly busy highway, unprepared.

In the late 70's I was running a pop route in a worn out truck. I had one of the small towns routes and the last town on the list was about 45 miles from home. With just a couple stops left to go I hopped in the truck and it wouldn't start. Small town in the midwest there was a friendly face attached to jumper cables there in less than two minutes but the jump only got me as far as the next stop. Luckily it was the auto repair shop and they quickly informed me that the generator wasn't putting out.

Called the dispatcher and he said just get a quick charge and head back. Right! It was about twenty minutes before closing time at the garage but they shot as much juice into that battery as it would take in the time we had and wished me luck. It was mid winter and the sun had already dipped below the horizon but being very young, fairly dumb and eager to put the day behind me, I assumed that if I hurried there shouldn't be any problem.

I wasn't five miles out of town before the truck started to stumble. I figured it was from lack of electricity so I turned the heater down a couple notches and the motor started purring again. Soon enough though it was stumbling again so I tuned the heater off and wished the maintenance people had done something about the enormous hole in the floor board where the shifter came through.

If you've ever delivered beverages, you know that if you aren't in the truck or the store, you are manually unloading the truck so you don't normally need a lot of clothes. I had on those thin ugly pants the uniform companies love so much, short sleeve shirt, a light weight jacket and I'd put my jersey gloves back on when I switched the heater off.

I had maybe ten minutes of smooth sailing this time but I'm running out of ideas to cut the drain on the battery and the engine is missing so bad now I had to downshift to keep it running. Then it occurs to me as I'm topping a fair sized hill that if I was right on somebody else's bumper, I wouldn't really have to have headlights so I take advantage of the downhill stretch and snuggle up behind a pickup that had passed me a minute earlier and switch off the headlights, put the truck back in high gear and start feeling a little better except that my fingers are freezing.

About fifteen miles from home now and I need to downshift again. It took a pretty good tug to get my right hand off the steering wheel, I shove the shifter knob forward with the back of my fingers and try to get my hand to go back on the steering wheel but it won't open up. Now I'm starting to worry.

I probably should have pulled off the road at this point and flagged someone down for a ride in but I had racked up a pretty good sized "road side assistance" bill a few months earlier when instead of telling my "co-pilot" to get his head out of my mirror, I accepted his "no cars back there" as an all clear and backed into $62 worth of ditch.

Lots of oncoming traffic flashing me with their brights, engine stumbling again, I hook my wrist around the shifter and the motor dies as I pull the tranny into second gear. Restarts as soon as I let the clutch out but I know I need a new trick. I'm going WAY to slow to be on the highway with no lights in the back so I reach across with my right hand, kick on my left blinker and punch the lights off. The motor smooths out but I'm afraid to try and get a higher gear so I creep and blink my way into town. A half mile or so from the first open quick shop the truck started to buck in rhythm to the turn signal. I turned as sharp as I could without taking my left hand off the wheel, bucked into the far side of the lot and mashed the brake pedal killing the motor. MADE IT!!

Pulled/pushed my left hand off the steering wheel, used my wrist to push the door handle up and almost fell on my face as I rolled out of the truck. I could not straighten up. It took me about thirty little "frankenstein steps" to get to the door of the quick shop walking with both my fists frozen at half mast out in front of me like a zombie. I guess one of the two men inside figured than Dr. Pepper had started hiring the handicapped because he beat me to the door and opened it for me.

Now they are both staring at me like "Were you going to buy something?"

I can't talk! Can't even make the little animal sounds used by some deaf people, nothing! After what seemed like a half hour of very uncomfortable scrutiny waiting to thaw out I try again and succeed in making an audable grunt. Eight or ten more unintellegable syllables and I finally blurt out a halfway decent "bout froze!"

I noticed that it was actually painful to talk so I waited another five or ten minutes to run some more warm air in and out of my pipes and then I went and stood by the wall phone. The guy that had met me at the door asked me if I wanted to make a call and I rocked my upper torso in an affirmative fashion. Had him dial the Dr. Pepper office and with him holding the receiver, told the dispatcher "come get your truck." Then I went and sat down and he told them where the truck was. I'll never forget that.

[rwc1969]

This is a good thread. Lotsa good points. That's the hardest thing for me to grasp with this winter hiking, camping thang. I've hiked and camped plenty in the past, but rarely in the winter. It's hard to balance lightweight pack vs. the expected or unexpected requirements of winter. It's equally as hard to dress light enough as not to sweat too much.

You need the heavy or at least well insulated clothes for when you stop, but lugging them along in the pack is a real pain. My winter hunting clothes are 8-10 lbs. including insulated bib coveralls, insulated hoodie jacket and insulated flannel. I had no idea it weighed that much and it takes up a huge amount of room in the pack. All I really need to wear for hiking is jeans and the flannel with a sweater or t-shirt. but once I stop or am hunting I need the bibs or an extra pair of pants and the hoodie or else I freeze. Add that to the 13 lbs. of tent, blankets, bedmat and such and there's not a lot of room left.

I've came close to freezing 3 or 4 times and it ain't no fun. Your body literally stops functioning. Once the work truck broke down and I had to wait in a light flannel for hours in freezing temps doing cal's in the truck box to keep from freezing solid until the tow truck arrived. Then I was hiking thru a swamp deer hunting and hit a deep cold spot of water which instantly froze my feet and legs. I had to remove my boots and socks and walk barefoot thru the snow to regain function. Then, I went north salmon fishing and the temp change went from 60's down here to 20's and 30's up there. I was not prepared and spent the night in my car worrying that if I fell asleep I wouldn't wake up. Needless to say I didn't sleep but kept getting up and walking around to regain circulation. All dumb things that could have been avoided if I were prepared.

I've overheated too, and although it never caused me to get hypothermia, I usually do end up with a cold a few days later.

That's why I now always dress in layers, keep spare socks, gloves and boots if possible and keep blankets in the car or work vehicle. You never know waht to expect.

[Rick]

Neondog - I did a stint of that with "the other guys". Nothing like the sound of pop bottles freezing because the heater in the back of the worn out thing they call a truck doesn't work. I ran out of gas on a back road one time because the gas gauge didn't work and the night shift guys forgot to fill it up. I made a phone call at a farm house then went back, tilted the old Ford cab up and stood next to the engine to stay warm until the company tow truck arrived. Then there was the time the drive shaft fell out....

[neondog]

My truck was just a two axle job, no heater for the products, trucks stayed inside overnight. There were a couple of occasions when I was overloaded and had to put some of the Nehi on top where you threw the returnable bottles. Had pop-sicles poking out the top of the bottles before I could get them into the store.

[Rick]

So was mine. I don't remember for certain but somewhere around a 1967 or 8 probably Ford C600 straight truck. We had hot water piping in the back that ran off the engine coolant. It just circulated through the center of the bays and kept it above freezing....when it worked. Back in the days when empties could be carried on top of the truck. You came up to a quick stop and could hear a stray empty rolling the length of the roof and watch it sail off over the cab. Or toss a case on the roof in winter and the roof would be icy and the case just slide to the opposite side of the truck and out onto the road. Had that happen too many times.

We need our own thread for this one. I can tell you about killing rats in sugar storage. Sugar was stored on top of pallets in the basement below the bottle washers so it had about 8 or 10 inches of water standing all the time. We had some 2Xs that were shaped like large paddles. One guy would drive the fork lift through the water and one guy would ride on the forks and clobber rats swimming through the water. That was great fun until a rat decided to climb up on the forks with you. Then everybody went running through the water. It's a wonder I'm still alive.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Султ (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82195)авто (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/82938)пазл (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/484203)Notr (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/495926)Бата (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1812840)Иван (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/619714)Ки�е (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/614541)моде (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/250006)Форм (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/394791)праз (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/408624)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Форм (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/460139)Intr (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/475046)

[yellowcab]

шамп (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/5130)438.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/538)Bate (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/170)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com)Arth (http://factoringfee.ru)Mohi (http://filmzones.ru)Jewe (http://gadwall.ru)Юлиа (http://gaffertape.ru)ради (http://gageboard.ru)High (http://gagrule.ru)Jewe (http://gallduct.ru)Duns (http://galvanometric.ru)Mich (http://gangforeman.ru)Кита (http://gangwayplatform.ru)Семе (http://garbagechute.ru)
S900 (http://gardeningleave.ru)Mode (http://gascautery.ru)Jenn (http://gashbucket.ru)Symp (http://gasreturn.ru)Lenn (http://gatedsweep.ru)�ель (http://gaugemodel.ru)нача (http://gaussianfilter.ru)абха (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)Harr (http://geartreating.ru)Atta (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)�р�е (http://generalprovisions.ru)Geor (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)Kiri (http://geriatricnurse.ru)Rene (http://getintoaflap.ru)Brow (http://getthebounce.ru)
Wilh (http://habeascorpus.ru)Mich (http://habituate.ru)Ahav (http://hackedbolt.ru)тече (http://hackworker.ru)Куба (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)Mich (http://haemagglutinin.ru)Hous (http://hailsquall.ru)Yogh (http://hairysphere.ru)Nost (http://halforderfringe.ru)де�т (http://halfsiblings.ru)по�е (http://hallofresidence.ru)Хейм (http://haltstate.ru)Jean (http://handcoding.ru)Rich (http://handportedhead.ru)Мари (http://handradar.ru)
Поро (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)Pure (http://hangonpart.ru)Scot (http://haphazardwinding.ru)Wind (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)Бурч (http://hardasiron.ru)Welc (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)Twen (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)Summ (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)Scot (http://hatchholddown.ru)matt (http://haveafinetime.ru)Dori (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)Тайл (http://headregulator.ru)Were (http://heartofgold.ru)Swee (http://heatageingresistance.ru)Iron (http://heatinggas.ru)
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капи (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)Mass (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)Трах (http://kentishglory.ru)them (http://kerbweight.ru)Supe (http://kerrrotation.ru)wwwg (http://keymanassurance.ru)Кита (http://keyserum.ru)Arts (http://kickplate.ru)Кочн (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)Fran (http://kilowattsecond.ru)�бор (http://kingweakfish.ru)внуч (http://kinozones.ru/film/10026)Carc (http://kleinbottle.ru)Щерб (http://kneejoint.ru)Jorg (http://knifesethouse.ru)
Park (http://knockonatom.ru)Kare (http://knowledgestate.ru)�ере (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)Mezz (http://labeledgraph.ru)NBRD (http://laborracket.ru)кара (http://labourearnings.ru)Rond (http://labourleasing.ru)Emil (http://laburnumtree.ru)��ыл (http://lacingcourse.ru)Каза (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)забо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)Teas (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)Touc (http://ladletreatediron.ru)Kuna (http://laggingload.ru)Clif (http://laissezaller.ru)
ГрÑ�н (http://lambdatransition.ru)разн (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)ZORL (http://lammasshoot.ru)авто (http://lamphouse.ru)Rene (http://lancecorporal.ru)Ð*айк (http://lancingdie.ru)Sony (http://landingdoor.ru)Кита (http://landmarksensor.ru)Wind (http://landreform.ru)Vari (http://landuseratio.ru)Easy (http://languagelaboratory.ru)Ñ�мер (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160431)плаÑ� (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589223)Noki (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1931)хоро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590117)

[yellowcab]

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