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View Full Version : Rescue Beacons - Should They be Required?



Rick
12-19-2009, 07:30 PM
The latest deaths on Mt. Hood will certainly rekindle the debate of rescue beacons. Should rescue beacons be mandated in situations where there is a reasonable likelihood that a SAR response would be needed. Certainly, winter time ascents of mountains like Mt. Hood, place sports enthusiasts in great peril. But it also places in peril those who would have to rescue them should something go wrong. Beacons could reduce the amount of time it would take a SAR team to rescue and/or recover a climber and that would reduce the risk of the SAR team. What say you? Should they be required?

http://www.theday.com/article/20091219/INTERACT010102/912199999/-1/SPORT

oly
12-19-2009, 07:39 PM
In certain areas and conditions maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea. Avalanches are an extreme danger for SAR. in my area.

your_comforting_company
12-19-2009, 09:26 PM
I think it's more of a preventative measure.. like hunter orange or PFD's when boating. It's one of those things that is likely to save your life and just makes good sense.. I mean mountain climbing?? what could go wrong? :knight: :eyepoke:
I mean, why should others risk their life to save yours when you are intentionally taking those kinds of risks? cover your sorry butt before you go out there and noone else will have to do it for you..

finallyME
12-19-2009, 10:39 PM
I think it should only be required for mountaineering. This is where you need crampons and rope.

NightShade
12-19-2009, 11:04 PM
I wear an avalanche beacon (same thing I think) when I go snowboarding off-trails.... Honestly most of the places I go have a practically non-existent chance of avalanche... Some are pretty high chance areas... Either way I always wear it ... Kinda outta habit, kinda cuz I figure if I somehow hit atree and can't get out it would help.
To me it falls in the same category as guns and condoms......
Rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it !

To me its a sensible preparation and precaution.... Though.... I wouldn't "require" it unless there was a very reasonable chance of a future SAR.

canid
12-19-2009, 11:34 PM
i'm sorry; i'm in the wrong thread. i thought i read rescued bacon.

i guess having a beacon could save one's bacon.

i went with option 2.

pocomoonskyeyes
12-20-2009, 01:20 AM
I went with option 3. I just read somewhere that not all Beacon signals are acted on Immediately. Some guy was recently lost in Wyoming on a hunting Trip. He did manage to make it out. In the article it was suggested that a Satellite phone was a better option,and that the phones could be rented. I know the beacons are probably also available for rent,But it just seems that the phone is a better choice. The more info the SAR has, the better your chances are of being rescued with the proper gear/necessary treatment,as they are better informed. Not everyone that hits the "Panic button" really needs rescue. This Info could also save lives by not having SAR out on a "Frivolous" call when a real call comes in. Just seems more logical to have a phone than an emergency "Beeper".

hunter63
12-20-2009, 01:49 AM
Sorry, but I go along with option 1, "ya pays your money and take your chances."
I'm seeing more and more intrusion into life by Gov'ment/those that want to "protective you from your self".
If you want to take this equiptment, your choice, if not, your choice.

crashdive123
12-20-2009, 08:26 AM
While I don't think they should be required, I do think they are a good idea.

Camp10
12-20-2009, 08:38 AM
I went option 3. I think you should wear one if you are in a situation where it might be necessary but I dont think it should be forced. I would use my seatbelt regardless of the laws....like Nightshade said, guns and condoms

hunter63
12-20-2009, 12:18 PM
Key word is "required".........getting real tired of "required".
Good Idea to use them, absolutely,........ required, no.

Batch
12-20-2009, 02:56 PM
I do not think that we need another regulation.

I would wear one if I thought the circumstances dictated it. I also don't know if you could justifiably charge the cost of a rescue in ever case. Imagine that you went out and a storm moved in. You are prepared for this and are happy to get to use your hard earned skills. You might be a little annoyed when SAR shows up with a bill for "rescuing" you!

It would be difficult to ascertain who actually needed rescue. also, would it be fair to only charge the guy with the Sat phone and the rescue beacon. After all he took the proper precautions and helped his rescuers find him quickly.

Camp10
12-20-2009, 03:10 PM
I do not think that we need another regulation.

I would wear one if I thought the circumstances dictated it. I also don't know if you could justifiably charge the cost of a rescue in ever case. Imagine that you went out and a storm moved in. You are prepared for this and are happy to get to use your hard earned skills. You might be a little annoyed when SAR shows up with a bill for "rescuing" you!

It would be difficult to ascertain who actually needed rescue. also, would it be fair to only charge the guy with the Sat phone and the rescue beacon. After all he took the proper precautions and helped his rescuers find him quickly.

No...charge the guy who asks for rescue and leave the rest to the mountain. If I dont need help, I wont ask for it. I think being prepared for anything would include carrying a rescue beacon, just in case. There are way to many "cradle to grave" Americans out there that have lost touch with the idea of personal responsibility...If you didnt want a rescue option going in then you will look nice as coyote sh** if things go bad for you.

nell67
12-20-2009, 08:36 PM
Rescue bacon???? Well DUH! Everyone should carry rescue bacon,get lost,cook that bacon,and every rescuer around will know where you are....




(Oh,you said beacon,not bacon.My bad!):blushing:

2dumb2kwit
12-20-2009, 08:46 PM
Rescue Ken? Maybe.

Rescue Crash? Probably.

Rescue Bacon? Your dang right!

Rick
12-20-2009, 08:48 PM
What is it with you two?

Rescue Beacon
Save Your Bacon

They are similar.

nell67
12-20-2009, 08:50 PM
What is it with you two?

Rescue Beacon
Save Your Bacon

They are similar.

Bacon withdrawl,haven't had any in a couple of days,clouding my vision.......

Pal334
12-20-2009, 08:52 PM
WE don't need another babysitter rule. If a person is going into the "wilds", they can make the decision, and live with the consequences of theor decision

2dumb2kwit
12-20-2009, 08:57 PM
WE don't need another babysitter rule. If a person is going into the "wilds", they can make the decision, and live with the consequences of theor decision

Maybe there should be signs, at the city limits.

You are now leaving the city.

Beyond this sign, you are responsible for your own well being.
If you can't take responsibility for yourself,
please turn around and return to the city.

Rick
12-20-2009, 09:12 PM
Okay then. Half of you that voted said no. Now I'll follow up with this. You know that a SAR team WILL be dispatched if they call for help or are reported missing. No different than someone on the high seas or in the desert or any number of other places people manage to get themselves into trouble. Is it fair to SAR team members that winter ascents don't mandate beacons? Everyone probably remembers the chopper that crashed on Mt. Hood trying to rescue some folks. While a beacon wouldn't have prevent the chopper crash it certain would reduce the amount of time the SAR team spends searching for folks. Wouldn't that reduce the exposure and possible risk to the SAR team?

pocomoonskyeyes
12-21-2009, 05:09 PM
I still say take the Bacon,leave the beacon and replace it with a Satellite Phone. IF rescuers have to go after you the more info,the better. No I don't think it is fair that their lives could be at risk,same holds true with firefighters,Police, and military. However they all know the risks when they sign up for the job. Some jobs are inherently Dangerous,it goes with the territory, so to speak. What you are asking could be applied to any one who lives in a disaster prone area. Whether it is Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Earthquakes or whatever. Should they/us be MANDATED to do this or that? An Accident/disaster can happen at any place any time,Should people be "Penalized" because of this? What you are asking could be applied to cars as well. Since there is a POSSIBILITY that they could they be involved in an accident should they all carry "Onstar"? If they Don't should they be forced to pay all the expenses that are incurred? Think about the can of worms this is opening. Once a "Precedent is set" it is almost impossible to reverse.

NightShade
12-21-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm a huge "less government" proponent here, but I gotta say, there are some situations where a SAR is likely if not very likely.....
In those situations a beacon should be required.. If only for SAR safety... Yeah, screw you if you're to dumb to bring one... But people will be searching for you.
My only concern is what would be considered " a reasonable situation "

crashdive123
12-21-2009, 06:15 PM
I understand what you are saying Rick, and I agree it would certainly make the SAR mission more targeted. Where do you draw the line though? In Florida (and other places) the Coast Guard stays plenty busy looking for over due boaters. Should a epirb be mandated if you venture 1 mile off shore? Maybe two? As I said earlier, I don't think they should be mandated. I would have one. I always had one when sailing or boating. For me it all comes down to personal responsibility. I personally do not have a problem with SAR billing their "clients". You pay for what you use - just like electricity.

Rick
12-21-2009, 09:22 PM
Beats me. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Personally, I don't think they should be mandated but I can see with a device like that would drastically cut down on the search time for any SAR (even Coast Guard) effort thereby minimizing their risks as well. I've stated elsewhere I'm against charging for a SAR effort, too. However, if you are planning something really risky like a winter ascent up Mt. Hood. A place that has proven to be treacherous every year, then I think some special considerations might be warranted. I don't think I'd have a huge problem if the park folks said either take a beacon or a sat phone or you get to pay if we come after you. But then you open the door and, as you said, where do you draw the line?

red lake
12-21-2009, 09:37 PM
I'll never use one. I like the feeling I get knowing I have to rely on my own skills and knowledge to survive rather than a "back up plan"

oly
12-21-2009, 09:46 PM
I'll never use one. I like the feeling I get knowing I have to rely on my own skills and knowledge to survive rather than a "back up plan"

I wouldn't have one. I hope the ones that have minimal skills would carry one.

Rick
12-22-2009, 06:51 AM
I don't know. I like that old, "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it." I carry a radio and cell phone in the woods just in case. I think if I planned to hike Yellowstone, Yosemite or some place in Alaska I might just pick up one and a sat phone. You only get one chance to make a really stupid mistake.

mcgyver
12-22-2009, 10:29 AM
First - I don't think that anyone should be "required" to own or carry anything.
Emergency rescue/extraction is of course, Not free.
I'm not sure when people thought getting their butts saved should be somebody else's financial responsibility.
If you needed assistance and you were paying less for it because the beacon saved time, then it may be worth it's purchase price.

NightShade
12-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Poco... Here's an instance where the sat. Phone isn't even close to as good as a beacon... If I get swept up and buried in an avalanche that I caused by shredding some powder at extreme angles chances are I won't be able to move my arms to dial for help.... My avalanche beacon will automatically sense I'm buried ( I don't know how) and activate a distress signal.
I know that most helo-drop cmpnys require them and won't let you drop out without one.

Granted that's a specialized situation and not quite the same thing... But you get my point..


As for bacon... Only an idiot would argue that either a beacon or sat phone is better!

pocomoonskyeyes
12-22-2009, 01:45 PM
Oh Please don't get me wrong folks. I am all for anything that would "Save my Bacon". I think any and all safety measures should be used.IF they are needed. I just don't think they should be Required/Mandated. If SAR IS called in for your Rescue You SHOULD be financially responsible and should be Charged for the expenses. That is why I voted for option 3. I just don't think something like this should be mandatory.
Keep in mind that a lot of SAR teams are Volunteers. They get paid nothing,or almost nothing anyway unless they work full-time as a part of some agency or such. IF someone wants to put their life at risk by doing something stupid then it shouldn't take rocket science for these people to REALIZE that they NEED these things. Personally I am not near any Large wilderness area or environment that these things would be required.
I would rather see a requirement that someone have a certain amount of Training/Skills than a piece of equipment. Certain First aid courses,survival courses,things of this nature. Granted some people take foolish risks.... Usually because they don't know any better. If people are TRAINED, they WILL(or should) know better. I think we are looking at the wrong "E" - Education is a pre-requisite to Equipage/Equipment.
I know in most Wilderness rivers you are REQUIRED to have a certain "Rating" before you can attempt certain Rapids. Does this prevent SAR call outs/rescues/body recoveries? NO. However it does cut down on them. Doesn't this same apply to Climbing? If not then it should. All I am saying is I think a solution IS needed but maybe from a different approach.

@ Nightshade - What you are doing is a very GOOD example of what I am talking about. You know there are inherent risks and you are taking necessary precautions. While your "Avalanche Beacon" does it's miraculous job, I don't think a "Rescue beacon" would work the same way. There is no way it could "sense" when you are in trouble,unless it is due to "inactivity" then it could be too late. It would be a recovery, not a rescue. You have a valid point about the Sat phone though. In your instance it might not be of any use. You realize this and did the responsible thing.:thumbup1:

oly
12-22-2009, 08:09 PM
I carry a radio and cell phone in the woods just in case. I think if I planned to hike Yellowstone, Yosemite or some place in Alaska I might just pick up one and a sat phone. You only get one chance to make a really stupid mistake.

Cell phones don't always has a signal in the Rockies, just for a heads up.

Rick
12-22-2009, 08:13 PM
They don't always have a signal in Indiana, either.

yellowcab
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yellowcab
05-05-2026, 10:35 PM
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