12 dead and 31 wounded on Ft. Hood [Archive]

Pal334

11-06-2009, 11:52 AM

The hero cop who ended the bloody rampage at Fort Hood had been directing traffic moments before she confronted the gunman and pumped four bullets into him despite being shot herself.

Civilian police Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her partner responded within three minutes of reported gunfire Thursday afternoon, Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said Friday.

Munley, who had been trained in active-response tactics, rushed into the building and confronted the shooter as he was turning a corner, Cone said.

"It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer," Cone said.

Munley was only a few feet from crazed Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan when she opened fire.

Wounded in the exchange of gunfire, Munley was reported in stable condition at a local hospital.

The hero cop spent Thursday night phoning fellow officers to let them know she was fine and to find out about casualties in the attack - the deadliest ever on a military base in the U.S., Cone said.

Cone said Munley's aggressive response training taught her that "if you act aggressively to take out a shooter you will have less fatalities."

"She walked up and engaged him," he said. He praised her as "one of our most impressive young police officers

Rick

11-06-2009, 11:54 AM

That took a pair. A very large brass pair. Cudos to her. Who knows how many lives she saved.

2dumb2kwit

11-06-2009, 12:58 PM

It's a shame that those four that she put in him, didn't kill him.

On the bright side.....now someone can tell him that those bullets were dipped in pigs blood. (Oops...did I say that out loud?)

BENESSE

11-06-2009, 01:08 PM

rwc1969

11-06-2009, 01:12 PM

It's unfortunate, but it seems rather strange that we would have people in positions like that when they pose a possible threat.

I guess you can't weed em all out without locking up or denying innocent folks as well.

Pal334

11-06-2009, 01:14 PM

What I don't understand is this:
Weren't other people armed where this happened, and if yes, why wasn't he shot earlier?
This almost sounds like a high school scenario and not an army base.
Don't mean to PO anyone, I just don't get it.

Under normal conditions, the only military personnel that are armed and with ammunition are the Military Police when at a stateside base. The exceptions are when they are at weapons qualification areas. These folks apparently were doing administrative processing prior to deploying. At best some may have been carrying weapons that were unloaded for handcarry on their flight, but that is also not the norm. So in essence as far as an armed population, you are correct it is almost like a high school scenario. The plot that occurred here at Ft Dix, NJ would have been even worse, because the areas they were going to hit would have been training areas where they (US military) were armed with weapons and blank ammunition for training purposes. And the firing by the bad guiys would have been masked by the normal shooting during training scenarios. Yours is a good question, since many folks do not know the arming policy at stateside bases.

doug1980

11-06-2009, 01:24 PM

Yes that is the major misconception about being on a Military Base. People think it is so safe but in reality it isn't. You have hundreds or like the base I am on thousands of people in a relatively small area that are unarmed. Not sure how many SF/MP's we have but they are the only one's armed. So an incident such as this can be devestating. We also have thefts, rapes, B&E, Etc on Base as well. It's nothing more thatn a gated community that still has it's share of crime.

BENESSE

11-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Pal334

11-06-2009, 01:57 PM

Honestly guys, if this was allowed to happen on an army base
what's left for the streets of NYC?

There was plenty of heads up on this character from all told reports,
and NOthing was done.
Is this political correctness gone mad or am I missing anything?
What is it going to take?!

The reality is, a military base is just like any other community when it comes to vulnerability to crime by its members. I would say that crime by "outsiders" is significantly less likely due to the security at the perimeter (base gates) of the installation. But I can say with some confidence that the folks in the military are representative of our society. My personal opinion, representative of the best of our society since it is a volunteer force, but there are all the quirks and foibles of our society represented. I don''t think it means that NYC is any more or less vulnerable. From what I am seeing, I do not think there were many "warning sign" on this guy. There was his name, which by the way is a very common name in Islam on one web site, but it has not been proved that it was him (this may change of course when they analyze his computer). And his military career seems to be at least average, after all he made Major. The "problem" mentioned at Walter Reed with counseling and added supervision is not atypical of someone going through training (he was a resident). And at least in the intial phases, it would seem that this was a reaction by hime to a deployment order which he dreaded.So other than the obvious tragedy, I would not be extremely worried that this signals any sort of increase in potential issues.

Pal334

11-06-2009, 02:01 PM

Having posted the above, this is what I see on CNN

Shooting reported at Orlando high-rise

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/orlando.shootings/index.html

So much for my career as a pundit

oldsoldier

11-06-2009, 02:05 PM

Back when I was active duty,The crime rate on a military base was about the same or in some cases ( domestic violence) was higher than surrounding towns/cities. But being a military base most civilians never hear about it. The last I heard the shooter was despondent ( spelling?) about being deployed. So what I hated every time I was deployed but never considered.......

BENESSE

11-06-2009, 02:16 PM

From what I am seeing, I do not think there were many "warning sign" on this guy. There was his name, which by the way is a very common name in Islam on one web site, but it has not been proved that it was him (this may change of course when they analyze his computer). And his military career seems to be at least average, after all he made Major.

An officer who had some previous interaction with this guy was interviewed
om MSNBC this morning. He reported actually hearing the shooter in the last year make comments that would seem highly suspect under any circumstances let alone during war time in the Middle East.
Doesn't the Patriot act extend to military bases as well or is it strictly for civillians?

Ole WV Coot

11-06-2009, 08:09 PM

The officer did an outstanding job, hope she is rewarded. All MREs should contain bacon. Remember a rumor the Brits used many yrs ago coating the power & ball with lard to waterproof, no ammo was stolen. Maybe Swine flu shots should be mandatory? Since I AM politically incorrect I vote for pigskin boots and then let's do a little profiling. I would hate to be forced to check everyone's religion that got behind me.

crashdive123

11-06-2009, 08:16 PM

Ok now that we know more than we did. What is your opinion?

Nutcase or terrorist? IMO it was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist.

BENESSE

11-06-2009, 08:22 PM

Nutcase or terrorist?

What's the diff?

COWBOYSURVIVAL

11-06-2009, 08:25 PM

IMO it was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist.

I'll second that and add that IMO we are burying our heads in the sand by not admiting that it is exactly that! Saying he was worried about his deployment is plain BS!

Rick

11-06-2009, 08:59 PM

Coot - I read a story that in the 19th century the Brits did use a pork based oil to seal the paper shells. Once the Indians (the continent not the baseball team) found out they boycotted and the Brits had to begin using a different compound.....or at least they said it was different.

COWBOYSURVIVAL

11-06-2009, 09:16 PM

Nutcase or terrorist?

What's the diff?

If you can't see the difference than it'll take more than an explanation on an internet forum.

Pal334

11-06-2009, 09:53 PM

IMO it was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist.

May I interject , that one key element in the definition of terrosist / terrorism is ( I am paraphrasing) "Attempting to alter or influence a government or people by use of violence" . This slug seemed to have only his personal circumstance in mind with this particular act, and no real goal of changing a government policy. My point being, lets be careful in labeling it an act of terrorism by , or on the behalf of a religion. It may "simply" be a stressed individual acting out horribly. And rest assured, I am in no way condoning, or making excuses for his action, on the contrary, may he rot and burn in swine H**l

Also to help Benese, this is a simplified version of the definition of terrorism

–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

crashdive123

11-06-2009, 10:00 PM

I know what you mean, but by several accounts he yelled allah akbar before starting the executions. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting I know his family is saying that he did not embrace the radical side of the religion, but to me that is no different than a family member, whose child just committed some heinous act saying - "he was such a good boy"

COWBOYSURVIVAL

11-06-2009, 10:11 PM

Kind of reminds me of Kamiyama.....LOL

2dumb2kwit

11-06-2009, 10:14 PM

May I interject , that one key element in the definition of terrosist / terrorism is ( I am paraphrasing) "Attempting to alter or influence a government or people by use of violence" . This slug seemed to have only his personal circumstance in mind with this particular act, and no real goal of changing a government policy. My point being, lets be careful in labeling it an act of terrorism by , or on the behalf of a religion. It may "simply" be a stressed individual acting out horribly. And rest assured, I am in no way condoning, or making excuses for his action, on the contrary, may he rot and burn in swine H**l

Also to help Benese, this is a simplified version of the definition of terrorism

–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Then by definition, didn't he commit an act of terrorism.
It sounds like you are right, about him being a nut, but he didn't commit suicide or go awol.

Pal334

11-06-2009, 10:15 PM

I understand what you are saying, but just the use of a religious invective / chant etc, should not bestow on him the mantle of a terrorist. I think time will tell that he was just a jerk that could not cope with pressure of his job,pending deployment and his perception religious discrimination, not a person who was trying to make any sort of political statement or action which would be needed to meet the criteria needed to make him a terrorist. Just something to mull over

2dumb2kwit

11-06-2009, 10:18 PM

Either way....I feel for the families of the dead and wounded.

Pal334

11-06-2009, 10:19 PM

Then by definition, didn't he commit an act of terrorism.
It sounds like you are right, about him being a nut, but he didn't commit suicide or go awol.

I don't think so
–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. WHo did he intimidate or coerce?
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization. The US Army and the USA is not in fear or in submission
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.This wouldbe border line, was it hs way of resisting ?

crashdive123

11-06-2009, 11:16 PM

Just to add a bit more. He was a psychiatrist, treating US servicemen. It is alleged that he tried to convert some of his patients to Islam. IMO he was making a political statement - but time will tell.

BENESSE

11-07-2009, 01:03 AM

If you can't see the difference than it'll take more than an explanation on an internet forum.

Sorry, I was just being facetious--I forget that it's hard to tell in this venue.

Be that as it may, based on past examples, a terrorist is most likely to be a nutcase as well as a criminal. A nutcase is not necessarily a terrorist.

But honestly, who gives a flying f which it is?!
This was preventable and we need to "man up" to it instead of making excuses.

LostOutrider

11-07-2009, 07:55 AM

But honestly, who gives a flying f which it is?!
This was preventable and we need to "man up" to it instead of making excuses.

Yeah, ditto. So long as "man up" means taking a good hard look at the mental health care we're offering our soldiers . . . as well as the health care and oversight we're giving to the folks who are supposed to be taking care of our soldiers.

It has to be more than waving bacon at a line of recruits and kicking out anyone who flinches or checking their church membership card. I mean, seriously.

sgtdraino

11-08-2009, 02:24 AM

It's a shame that those four that she put in him, didn't kill him.

I'm frankly glad the scum wasn't killed. That's what he wanted, and he was denied that. Now he will hopefully come out of his coma and be utterly disgraced by being forced to face his actions, face his victims. Then put him to death.

2dumb2kwit

11-08-2009, 10:16 AM

I'm frankly glad the scum wasn't killed. That's what he wanted, and he was denied that. Now he will hopefully come out of his coma and be utterly disgraced by being forced to face his actions, face his victims. Then put him to death.

I can go along with that.....but can we still involve pig blood? LOL
(I want him to know that he ain't gettin' 72 virgins.)

Rick

11-08-2009, 01:41 PM

Ken, you probably know this better than I but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it costs the government in excess of a million dollars to seek the death penalty. Once convicted, they are automatically given an appeal because of the severity of the punishment. If all that's true, you sort of hope the moron dies outright.

BENESSE

11-08-2009, 05:18 PM

I'm just really sick at heart over this latest development--yet another one in the string of...why us, why here.
When are we (US Govt./citizens) ever going to stop REacting and start PROacting? What is it going to take?
How bad does it to have to get before we say enough is enough and take some serious precautions the way Israelis have?
I am reasonable, educated, independent, live-and-let-live kind of person but this is beyond my comprehension.
Somebody please walk me through it, because I can't make sense of it any more.

rwc1969

11-08-2009, 07:01 PM

Well, unless we start taking away people's rights this kinda stuff will unfortunately continue.

Although, I'm sure things could have been done to prevent it, but hindsight is 20/20.

It's part of the price paid for living in a relatively free society.

Rick

11-08-2009, 07:39 PM

I don't think it's just us. This type of thing happens all over the world. It's just readily reported here and, since it "impacts" us directly, we are more attuned to it.

There are all sorts of atrocities being committed every day in places like Bosnia, Dafur, Rwanda and Cambodia and it has gone on since man was born.

BENESSE

11-08-2009, 08:38 PM

There are all sorts of atrocities being committed every day in places like Bosnia, Dafur, Rwanda and Cambodia and it has gone on since man was born.

Measuring ourselves against those countries somehow doesn't make me feel better.
Don't hear any of this stuff going on in Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway
or Israel for that matter. I keep bringing up Israel because we could learn a thing or two from them especially during this difficult and unprecedented time in our history.

Winnie

11-09-2009, 06:28 AM

Measuring ourselves against those countries somehow doesn't make me feel better.
Don't hear any of this stuff going on in Switzerland, Austria, Sweden, Norway
or Israel for that matter. I keep bringing up Israel because we could learn a thing or two from them especially during this difficult and unprecedented time in our history.

I normally steer clear of these topics for fear of offending.
It went on over here for more than 40 years. The scumbag perpetrators were known as th IRA. It wasn't just Northern Ireland either. Terrorist tactics only work if you let them. For many years the IRA tried and ultimately failed to influence the way British people lived their lives. We lived with the possibility of not coming home becuase some twit with a car full of explosives was trying to do us harm. It did not work.
I'm not trying to trivialise what this man has done he deserves the same contempt as any other mass murderer.
But getting to the point I'm trying to make, not every person of a certain religion is a terrorist and a little tolerance goes a long way. That's the main reason the European countries you mention rarely suffer these problems.
As for the Isreali conflict, try reading the history books. It's not as one sided as you may think.

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 09:59 AM

But getting to the point I'm trying to make, not every person of a certain religion is a terrorist and a little tolerance goes a long way. That's the main reason the European countries you mention rarely suffer these problems.
As for the Isreali conflict, try reading the history books. It's not as one sided as you may think.

Winnie, with all due respect, you are addressing an issue I didn't bring up nor do I see it as an issue in the first place.
This country is definitely one of the most tolerant in the world when it comes to diversity and freedom of religion. It was one of it's founding principles. The lack of tolerance on our side has absolutely nothing to do with what just happened.

NO one is saying that EVERY person of a Muslim religion is a terrorist. Certainly not I.
What the investigation turned up is a preponderance of very telling signs that could have alerted anyone paying attention that this murderer was a brewing s-storm of trouble that should have been addressed before he went off.

As for the Israeli conflict, I don't need to read history books to know that it's not one sided. But again, that's not germane here.
I was merely observing that Israel (the government and the people working in sync) has done an excellent job of taking care of internal security by paying attention and acting proactively at any sign of trouble. This was actually featured in one of the segments on CBS' 60 minutes a few years ago and the point of it was...we could learn a lot from them.

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 10:10 AM

Here's the story to which I was referring for anyone who cares:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/01/opinion/main1960443.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Sept. 2, 2006
Behavioral Profiling Needed
U.S. Should Follow Israeli Security Model In Airports

Winnie

11-09-2009, 10:19 AM

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 10:41 AM

Sorry Bee I thought thats exactly what you said, you referred to Switzerland et al as not having a problem with these type of people I was merely pointing out the reason I thought why, but it is a personal opinion and I guess we'll have to agree to differ.

I'll keep my thoughts to myself on the rest. Not the place.

I hope you wouldn't keep your thoughts to yourself Winnie!
Nothing wrong with a healthy discussion esp. when there is a difference of opinion. It would be a yawn if we all agreed on everything -- we wouldn't learn nearly as much from each other.

I'd like to believe that my opinions are based on facts.
But since there are different ways to interpret facts, I am well aware that my interpretation is just that, and no more valid than the next.

Winnie

11-09-2009, 10:49 AM

Absolutely Bee! Life would be dull.
Anyway, I'm not sure I should comment any further, I know little of what has happened, and I'm not one to cast opinions if I'm not aware of the facts. This Old World girlie will butt out now.:)

Rick

11-09-2009, 12:02 PM

I suppose hind sight is the best sight but I'm not certain how someone decides who is dangerous based on one or a few comments. I once had an employee ask me if I ever had a day I just felt like killing everyone. Kidding? Serious? It's a judgment call wrapped in your relationship with the individual. And if you choose wrong...

2dumb2kwit

11-09-2009, 01:42 PM

I suppose hind sight is the best sight but I'm not certain

Yeah...I'm pretty sure you're right, 'cause when two ladies are having a discussion, I usually look at their hind ends, too.:innocent:

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 03:13 PM

Yeah...I'm pretty sure you're right, 'cause when two ladies are having a discussion, I usually look at their hind ends, too.:innocent:

Well, maybe in HINDsight Ken's right after all.

Ken

11-09-2009, 03:18 PM

Well, maybe in HINDsight Ken's right after all.

He's just a pig. :sneaky2: Did ya' ever notice how he replies to so many innocent posts with some tidbit of smart-@ss sexual innuendo? He should be BANNED. That way, he'll have more free time to post on sites more appropriate to his mindset. http://www.thepigsite.com/

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 03:20 PM

I suppose hind sight is the best sight but I'm not certain how someone decides who is dangerous based on one or a few comments.

There was more than just a few comments he made.
The info is out there in the mainstream media for anyone who cares to find out more.
And more is yet to come, so stayed tuned.

COWBOYSURVIVAL

11-09-2009, 03:33 PM

Hasan is stable and able to talk according to this....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33777070/

Winnie

11-09-2009, 03:33 PM

Yeah...I'm pretty sure you're right, 'cause when two ladies are having a discussion, I usually look at their hind ends, too.:innocent:

You really must like hospital food:innocent::sneaky2:

Ken

11-09-2009, 03:45 PM

Here's my take on the subject..........

Hassan clearly IS a religous fanatic. He posted on radical websites, he tried to convert soldiers he treated to his Muslin faith, and he yelled "Allahu Akbar!" before he opened fire. He articulated support and justification for suicide bombings. Uhhh, what more evidence is required to determine his primary motives?

Was he acting as part of a terrorist cell or organization? The investigation will probably answer this question. Nonetheless, he was clearly enamoured with radical Islam and motivated, in great measure, by his twisted perceptions in that regard.

Was he also mentally ill? Possibly, but all evidence disclosed thus far suggests that he was sane (by its legal definition) and criminally responsible for his acts.

There were far too many warning signs for far too long regarding this guy. He should have been dealt with long ago.

My gut wishes that he had died slowly and painfully from his wounds.
However, my head suggests that his survival and the manner in which the investigation proceeds, as well as the type of criminal defense he undertakes, will be of tremendous value in terms of gaining intelligence and possibly thwarting similar attacks in the future.

Yeah, Rick, the appeals process could run into the millions on this one. However, it's a sure bet that the investigation alone will run into the tens of millions. And at the risk of sounding cold, so will the economic losses to the survivors and the families of the deceased.

Hopefully, and most likely, this matter will be prosecuted in military courts. http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=11461268&referralPlaylistId=playlist Due process of law is still observed. However, they do things a bit different in military courts as compared to civilian courts. They tend to move a bit faster, and unltimately, THEY HAVE A DEATH PENALTY! http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=11461609&referralPlaylistId=playlist

2dumb2kwit

11-09-2009, 04:10 PM

Well, maybe in HINDsight Ken's right after all.

You really must like hospital food:innocent::sneaky2:

Sheez.....I was just trying to lighten the mood, a little.:blushing:
(...and besides.....what's wrong with appreciating a woman's assets?):innocent:

Old GI

11-09-2009, 04:32 PM

It is being reported that the FBI has stated that the shooter was trying to contact AQ, but they can't establish that he actually did (yet).

BENESSE

11-09-2009, 04:42 PM

Here's my take on the subject..........

There were far too many warning signs for far too long regarding this guy. He should have been dealt with long ago.

Thanks Ken for taking the time to articulate the point I was trying to make
but was too lazy to get into it.

mountain mama

11-10-2009, 12:54 PM

This is what worries me most:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573174,00.html

Anwar said the only way a Muslim can justify serving in the U.S. military is if he intends to "follow in the footsteps of men like Nidal." ...
American Muslims who condemned the attacks on the Texas military base last week are hypocrites who have committed treason against their religion.
Whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in extremist muslims enlisting now?

BENESSE

11-10-2009, 01:22 PM

Whatcha wanna bet we see a surge in extremist muslims enlisting now?

Only if we ignore the issue and don't become super vigilant about it.
You know...fool me once....

mountain mama

11-10-2009, 01:37 PM

But Benesse, you seem to forget that we are not supposed to jump to conclusions here. According to the liberal masses, this was just the act of a deranged individual who is actually a pacifist, but was pushed over the edge by those discriminating against him based on his religious affiliation and by the military forcing this pacifist into a war he disagreed with based on his religious affiliation. After all, it's all our fault for having invaded a country that is run by his religious affiliation. But, remember, we can't possibly jump to conclusions that this act had anything to do with his religious affiliations.

Old GI

11-10-2009, 01:59 PM

Heard that the III Corps/Fort Hood CG said they were stacking personal baggage containers belonging to the troops completely around the service site to protect the CINC. Good use for that stuff, I'm sure they won't mind the delivery delay.

Stony

11-10-2009, 02:39 PM

of course are the Muslims to blame, AQ was involved indirectly,
almost everyone is saying so (and beliefing it).
so it must be true?

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 02:46 PM

Stony - don't let nasty little things like the facts get in the way of you formulating your opinion.

BENESSE

11-10-2009, 03:47 PM

Rick

11-10-2009, 04:05 PM

Why is it these lunatics never demonstrate their hatred for us by shooting themselves in the head? Now, if a guy were so committed to a cause that he would shoot himself in the head....why, I'd listen to what he has to say.

mountain mama

11-10-2009, 04:34 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573547,00.html

The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid "adverse events."

According to The Washington Post, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic during his senior year as a psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Medical Center.

Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A source who attended the presentation told the paper, "It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset."

The Powerpoint, entitled, "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military," consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.

Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

On the final slide, labeled "Recommendation," Hasan wrote: "Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events." ...

BENESSE

11-10-2009, 05:00 PM

We dropped the ball on this one, big time!
Someone needs to take responsibility and some heads need to roll.

I'm not holding my breath though.

doug1980

11-10-2009, 05:19 PM

That's a load of crap. So Catholics should be allowed to get out if they have to fight other Catholics. No matter the religion, if you enlist in the Military it is your duty to fight PERIOD. Don't like it, oh well you shouldn't have joined.

mountain mama

11-10-2009, 05:38 PM

doug1980, he was enjoying the free lunch until he had to pay for it....he got his medical degree on the Army's nickel.

Ken

11-10-2009, 05:59 PM

IMO it was an act of terrorism by a Muslim extremist.

"Does the Qur'an really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?"

"There are just too many Muslims who take the Qur'an literally..."

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Pal334

11-10-2009, 06:03 PM

Ken

11-10-2009, 06:45 PM

Ken,, if you would: Can you describe or explain in general terms why an attorney would accept the opportunity to defend a person like this "alledged" murder? I am not trying to be a wise guy, but I just can not understand the thought process. I do understand (in theory) and accept the fact there is a right to be competently represented in a court of law. But do you / "they" ever just decide "no way" when asked to represent a person accused of a heinous crime?

And I stress that this question is not meant to be disparaging towards lawyers, just an attempt to understand.

Tough question, Pal, but I'll try.

First, some lawyers are "appointed counsel." Unless they have a conflict of interest (not simply strong feelings about the crime) they MUST take the appointment.

Second, our entire body of laws is based upon the right of the accused to have effective assistance of counsel. Lawyers take an oath to represent clients to the best of their ability, regardless of their personal feelings. (THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE DOCTORS WHO FOUGHT TO SAVE HASAN'S LIFE AFTER HE WAS SHOT, EVEN THOUGH MANY MAY HAVE PRIVATELY WISHED HE HAD BEEN D.O.A.) Lawyers are often maligned for providing heinous defendants with the very protection granted by the Constitution that Americans fight every day to protect.

Third, lawyers often fight for causes that they personally abhor if they believe that their client has a legal right to engage in such behavior. For example, I can recall a Jewish lawyer from the ACLU once representing the Klan over the issue of holding a public demonstration.

Fourth, in SOME instances, we do decline to accept cases. This is easier to do if one is in private practice. Given the nature of my practice, I sometimes require a prospective client to pass a polygraph test before I will undertake representation. Why? Because if I accept the case, I'm required to be a zealous advocate. In my book, that means few if any holds barred. I'll play by the ethical rules, but I'll emotionally destroy the "opposition" if necessary to prove that they are lying. Given the things some of my prospective clients are accused of, I'll decline a case if I believe they are guilty, simply because I don't want to be involved in victimizing a person A SECOND TIME.

And yep, most of my practice is in criminal law. Murder cases, attempted murders, rapes, drug trafficking, violent crimes.........

Amazingly to many folks, a large percentage of my clients are truly innocent of the crimes with which they are charged. There's a hell of a lot of satisfaction when you get a witness to admit he/she has lied and contrived the charges, and you get to see an innocent man or woman return home to family instead of going to jail for life or a few decades.

Finally, it's a lawyers job to ensure a fair prosecution takes place. We are the only one who wll stand by a defendant to try to ensure that prosecutors play fair, that witnesses are truthful and don't embellish their testimony, that evidence is valid and admissable, and that the courts apply the law and the Constitution equally to all cases heard. Win or lose, we have done our jobs properly so long as we have ensured our client a fair trial.

Why? Because everyone is presumed innocent unless (THAT'S "UNLESS", NOT "UNTIL") proven guilty. And that's a presumption that you can't deviate from, especially based upon public opinion, because the next time around, the heinous defendant may really be innocent.

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 06:52 PM

I think that there is another category. There are some attorneys that agree with those that are trying to bring down this country.

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 06:53 PM

... or they could be attention whores, wanting to be involved in a higher profile case, than they would normally be involved in.
Just sayin':innocent:

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 06:55 PM

I think that there is another category. There are some attorneys that agree with those that are trying to bring down this country.

Oops...didn't see your post crash.
I'd have to say there is some of that, too.

doug1980

11-10-2009, 06:55 PM

Kinda hard to say that he didn't kill those people in this instance though. I sure wouldn't want to be his lawyer. Prolly gonna try an insanity plea.

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 07:00 PM

The criminal justice system has to presume he is innocent unless (didn't know it was unless until your post Ken) proven guilty. I am not the criminal justice system. He is a guilty *%^$ (**^& ^%$#####&^ that deserves a fair trial.

Ken

11-10-2009, 07:01 PM

I think that there is another category. There are some attorneys that agree with those that are trying to bring down this country.

True.

... or they could be attention whores, wanting to be involved in a higher profile case, than they would normally be involved in.
Just sayin':innocent:

And true again.

Sorry, guys, but I don't think that way, and those categories didn't come to mind. Trust me, with some of the cases I've had over the last 25 years, family dinners were quite lively, since Dad was a police officer for 32 years and I have a brother who's a retired Army M.P. Colonel. :innocent:

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 07:05 PM

Ken - when I wrote that I was thinking of that attorney Ron Kuby.

Ken

11-10-2009, 07:06 PM

The criminal justice system has to presume he is innocent unless (didn't know it was unless until your post Ken) proven guilty.

I always get the judge to instruct "unless" rather than the much more common "until" simply because the word "until" suggests an inevitable finding of guilty.

He is a guilty *%^$ (**^& ^%$#####&^ that deserves a fair trial.

I believe that you're 100% correct, Crash.

Ken

11-10-2009, 07:10 PM

Ken - when I wrote that I was thinking of that attorney Ron Kuby.

Guys like Kuby make it personal. They often take on cases to fight a cause, to make a personal statement so to speak, rather than to merely represent a defendant. I've got a problem with that.

Pal334

11-10-2009, 08:27 PM

Second, our entire body of laws is based upon the right of the accused to have effective assistance of counsel. Lawyers take an oath to represent clients to the best of their ability, regardless of their personal feelings. (THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE DOCTORS WHO FOUGHT TO SAVE HASAN'S LIFE AFTER HE WAS SHOT, EVEN THOUGH MANY MAY HAVE PRIVATELY WISHED HE HAD BEEN D.O.A.) Lawyers are often maligned for providing heinous defendants with the very protection granted by the Constitution that Americans fight every day to protect.

To me, this part of your response makes it clear to me. Americans have that Constitutional protection, that is something not available to all in the world. So although many would wish otherwise in this case, this is not a selective protection, it is applied equaly to all. Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be a great diservice to those that have fought and died for our freedom if we did not protect this and other Constitutional protections? Thanks for the clarification and education.

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:32 PM

Ken

11-10-2009, 08:36 PM

Well said Pal. I agree. I think he deserves a fair trial before we hang him.

The real crappy part of this is those in the military that were wounded and/or killed will not be eligible for the purple heart.

And here we have another problem. Finding enough jurors who haven't already formed an opinion in order that he be given that fair trial. I can tell ya', I'd be excluded on that basis.

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:37 PM

I could be a juror. I'm willing to give him a fair and impartial trial...then hang him.

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 08:39 PM

Ok, so now we have two.......

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:41 PM

1/6th of the way there. Every journey begins with two potential jurors. Is that right?

Ken

11-10-2009, 08:42 PM

I knew you guys could rise to the occasion. :innocent:

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:43 PM

I even have a new rope I'll donate (then auction it on eBay).

Pal334

11-10-2009, 08:48 PM

I think that if his case is heard before a military court (Courts Martial) it would not necessarily be heard by a jury. It could be heard by a panel of judges, military officers (not sure what the proper title is). So the obvious difficulty in getting an unbiased jury could be avoided. Another big advantage is that the death penalty is available in the military system. Also, I will be interested in what they actual charges are when this is sorted out

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:51 PM

Okay. I can be a military officer for a while. We can give him a fair hearing...then hang him.

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:53 PM

Seriously. How hard would it be to have been one of his primary docs and not let something be missed and __________________________ flat line. You have to give them credit for doing their job despite the situation.

Ken

11-10-2009, 08:53 PM

1/6th of the way there. Every journey begins with two potential jurors. Is that right?

The military court system is substantially different than civilian courts.

These three articles (the first is a decision) may be helpful in understanding the distinctions.

http://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/opinions/1996Term/96-1179.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_jury

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/student/20021218_carter.html

Rick

11-10-2009, 08:55 PM

Hey! I watched A Few Good Men. I know how a military trial works, thank you....then we hang him.

Pal334

11-10-2009, 08:59 PM

Rick, correct me if am wrong, but am I detecting that you favor capital punishment? Just sayin.....

Ken

11-10-2009, 08:59 PM

Hey! I watched A Few Good Men. I know how a military trial works, thank you....then we hang him.

Crash, that was your cue.......... :innocent: I want the truth, Crash!

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:00 PM

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by moderators with ban buttons. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Mr. Forum Guy & Gal? We have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for those that have been banned and you curse the moderators. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what we know. That those bannings, while tragic, probably saved lives. And our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want us on that wall, you need us on that wall. We use words like spammer, troll, flaming. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that we provide, and then questions the manner in which we provide it. We would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a toot what you think you are entitled to.

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:01 PM

We don't have to hang him in the capital. We can hang him anywhere. Right after a fair trial or hearing...whatever.

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:01 PM

Thank you. Now I'll sleep better tonight. Not as well as if some nameless member was banned, but still better. :innocent:

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:02 PM

Since it'll be a fair trial, why not the county fair and then hang hime from the ferris wheel.

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:03 PM

I say we hang him with a bungee cord. Look! He's dead. Oops, almost. Look! He's dead. Oops, almost......

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:05 PM

Since it'll be a fair trial, why not the county fair and then hang hime from the ferris wheel.

Ya' know (and you may be surprised to hear this coming from me) they should broadcast the execution live on a pay-per-view channel. The proceeds would probably cover most of the cost of the investigation and trial. Just sayin.' :innocent:

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 09:06 PM

Hey! I watched A Few Good Men. I know how a military trial works, thank you....then we hang him.

No, No, No, Rick! Use your head. We need to use a firing squad.
(And make sure he see's them dip the bullets in pigs blood!)

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:08 PM

Here's a rumor we can start. They had to give him plasma in the hospital and they used the white cells from pigs blood.

This is sure to be on Snopes in a couple of weeks. (teehee)

Pal334

11-10-2009, 09:08 PM

I for one was almost brought to tears by Crashes speech. Now I am sure that I am affiliated with the best d**n forum in the universe. Thanks to all moderators for being who you are

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 09:08 PM

Since it'll be a fair trial, why not the county fair and then hang hime from the ferris wheel.

Can a ferris wheel go fast enough, to make him go thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump.....:innocent:

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:09 PM

God Bless America!

http://heavyarmor.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/patton_flag.jpg

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:10 PM

Can a ferris wheel go fast enough, to make him go thump, thump, thump, thump, thump, thump.....:innocent:

No, but if we hang him under the roller coaster.......

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:10 PM

No, No, No, Rick! Use your head. We need to use a firing squad.
(And make sure he see's them dip the bullets in pigs blood!)

You could always use a rope made from pig intestines. Just sayin'. :innocent:

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:11 PM

We could tie him behind the car. If he can keep up then we'll set him free. Ft. Hood to the Nation's Capital should be about right.

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:12 PM

Here's a little dish I like to call Death by Bacon.

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/bacon%20roll%201.jpg

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:14 PM

Here's a little dish I like to call Death by Bacon.

http://blogs.citypages.com/food/bacon%20roll%201.jpg

If he ate that, he'd probably try to convert.......... :innocent:

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:15 PM

We could tie him behind the car. If he can keep up then we'll set him free. Ft. Hood to the Nation's Capital should be about right.

Or just feed 2dumb a large pot of PORK & beans and lock Hasan in a small room with him.......... :innocent:

Rick

11-10-2009, 09:15 PM

I've lived a good long life. Where can I find that?

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 09:20 PM

Oh, wait....while he's still doped up, can we get all the doctors and nurses to wear these? LOL:sneaky2:

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:20 PM

I've lived a good long life. Where can I find that?

Which one? Death by Bacon or 2dumb farts? :innocent:

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:21 PM

Oh, wait....while he's still doped up, can we get all the doctors and nurses to wear these? LOL:sneaky2:

Again. You made me do it again. I hate you. :sneaky2:

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:24 PM

Or ---- after he comes around and looks in the mirror - Honest - the plastic surgeons did everything they could to put you back together again.

http://www.unitedmask.com/Masks/images/pig.JPG

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:25 PM

Or ---- after he comes around and looks in the mirror - Honest - the plastic surgeons did everything they could to put you back together again.

http://www.unitedmask.com/Masks/images/pig.JPG

Where on earth did you get that picture of my ex-wife?

2dumb2kwit

11-10-2009, 09:28 PM

Where on earth did you get that picture of my ex-wife?

You should see the pictures he has, of your girlfriend! :innocent:

Ken

11-10-2009, 09:32 PM

You should see the pictures he has, of your girlfriend! :innocent:

I'll be showing her your post in a few minutes. May I suggest you hide here?

http://www.treehugger.com/amazon-jungle-permits.jpg

doug1980

11-10-2009, 09:32 PM

Blasphemy....we can't waste all that delicious pork on him.

crashdive123

11-10-2009, 09:33 PM

Well then I like 2D's idea about when he wakes up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9dwKQ6xyIs

COWBOYSURVIVAL

11-10-2009, 09:35 PM

Oops! wrong post! I was looking at a wilderness survival forum and next thing I know I am slayed with pigs jumping out at me. I almost filled my monitor full of holes untill I seen the bacon.....mmmm bacon!

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Ð—Ð¸Ð½Ð° (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1929940)Bodh (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950076)Ð¿Ð¸ÑÐ° (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1957924)Clau (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1969156)Ð•Ð¶Ð¾Ð² (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1461870)ÑÐºÐ·Ð° (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1495753)ÐšÐ°ÑˆÐº (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1555999)Ð”Ð¼Ð¸Ñ‚ (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1627851)ÐšÑ€Ð°Ð² (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1678366)Ð¢Ð¾Ð¿Ð¾ (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1694687)NTSC (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1067)NTSC (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1067)NTSC (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1067)ÐŸÑ€Ð¸Ð½ (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487183)Will (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1760314)
Ð˜Ñ‚Ð¸Ð½ (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1770764)ÐœÐµÑ€Ð· (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775833)Thom (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491314)Ð±Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¸ (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504381)ÐœÐ°Ñ‚Ð² (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1854997)Cind (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901652)XVII (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1950464)Life (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/863514)Ð›ÐµÐ¹Ð± (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/921296)Ð¨Ð°Ð¿Ð¾ (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/985442)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ÐœÐ¸Ñ‰Ðµ (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/985964)Fade (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/487800)

yellowcab

01-29-2026, 03:48 AM

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handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab

01-29-2026, 03:49 AM

laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab

05-05-2026, 01:57 AM

Ð¡ÐµÐ½Ñ‚ (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4638)147.1 (http://cottagenet.ru)MONT (http://eyesvision.ru)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com)Ð¼Ð°Ñ‚Ðµ (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1248472)Otto (http://filmzones.ru/t/1227138)Anyt (http://gadwall.ru/t/1216765)Watc (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1104245)ÐŸÑÑ‚Ð¸ (http://gageboard.ru/t/1096337)ÑÑ‚ÑƒÐ´ (http://gagrule.ru/t/1025319)Ñ†Ð¸Ñ„Ñ€ (http://gallduct.ru/t/1163929)Sydn (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1485805)Nara (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1447990)`ÐÐ»Ðµ (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1699136)ÐÐºÑÑŽ (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1369713)
Walk (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1084838)Noma (http://gascautery.ru/t/1232427)Ð›Ð°ÐºÑ‚ (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1297032)Ð›ÐµÐ¼Ðµ (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1242579)ÐÐ¹Ð²Ð° (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1246563)Ð¤Ñ€Ð¾Ð» (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1351119)Maev (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1569339)Ð¡Ñ‹Ñ€Ð¾ (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1241605)Pete (http://geartreating.ru/t/1209122)Jewe (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1137063)Ð¿Ð¾Ð²Ðµ (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1315619)Will (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1296430)ÐŸÐ¾Ð¿Ð¾ (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1528412)ÐšÐ¾Ð»Ðµ (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1248286)Ð¢ÑŽÐ»Ð¸ (http://getthebounce.ru/t/864168)
Ñ…Ñ€Ð¾Ð½ (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1220495)Ð¸Ð¼ÐµÐ² (http://habituate.ru/t/1224717)Ð‘Ð°Ð±Ð¸ (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1212755)Hans (http://hackworker.ru/t/1382431)ÐšÐ¾Ð·Ð¸ (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1104863)Brit (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1100618)Davi (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1231562)Slim (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1132309)ÐœÐµÐ´Ð² (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1245238)Edai (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1302280)Ð²Ð¾Ð¹Ð½ (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1047374)ÐÑ„Ð°Ð½ (http://haltstate.ru/t/1044897)Elle (http://handcoding.ru/t/1230020)Ñ„Ð°ÐºÑƒ (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1584509)Ð²ÑƒÐ·Ð¾ (http://handradar.ru/t/957031)
Bril (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1145289)Ñ‚Ð¾Ð²Ð° (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1144997)ÐŸÐ¾ÑÐ½ (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1015940)Ð²Ñ€Ð°Ñ‡ (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/817984)Ð¼ÑƒÐ¶Ñ‡ (http://hardasiron.ru/t/835042)Ð©Ð¸Ñ‚Ð¾ (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1009862)Ð’ÐµÑ€Ðµ (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1050226)Ð¡Ð¾Ð´Ðµ (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1048558)Ð£Ñ€ÑŽÐ¿ (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1248670)MODO (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547671)Ð³Ð°Ð·Ð¾ (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1457739)ELEG (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547717)Eleg (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1548104)Mesh (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1201978)Ð¡Ð¾Ð´Ðµ (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1547064)
Alta (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1183167)Frie (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/797112)ÐžÑ‚ÐµÑ‡ (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/855106)Ð¨Ð¸ÑˆÐº (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1376408)Henr (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/846222)West (http://jobstress.ru/t/1198155)Ries (http://jogformation.ru/t/1133028)Roma (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1171584)ÐÐ´ÐµÐ» (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1224383)Ð˜Ð²Ð°Ð½ (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1352785)Ashf (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1152348)Sela (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1181056)Koff (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182558)Ð¼Ð¾Ð»Ð½ (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1187915)Sela (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180701)
Fall (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181779)Mich (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/837002)Pali (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1187776)Fall (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1189361)Ð¡Ð¾Ð»Ð¾ (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1002605)Ð¡Ð°Ð½- (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/834294)size (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181573)ÐŸÐ°Ð²Ð» (http://kickplate.ru/t/1487534)ÐÐºÑÐµ (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1375600)FRAN (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1132576)Masy (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1506238)Ð¿Ñ€ÑƒÑ‚ (http://kinozones.ru/film/9534)Mich (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1231661)XVII (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1296482)Shib (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711383)
ÐœÐ°Ð»Ðµ (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1238724)ÐœÐ°Ñ€Ñ‚ (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1243884)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1548932)ÐšÐ¾Ñ€Ð¾ (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1374450)Mean (http://laborracket.ru/t/1531196)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1549216)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548896)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191261)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189897)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1189575)Ð¡Ñ‚Ð°Ð» (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1306613)3095 (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194399)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192644)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190922)ÑÐµÑ€Ðµ (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192573)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192659)9003 (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194401)Ð¡Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1355419)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185749)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185711)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187140)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189713)Mile (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1558346)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187592)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185945)Ð‘Ñ€ÐµÐ´ (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1212796)ÐºÐ¾Ð»Ð» (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1152092)ÐºÐ»ÐµÐ¹ (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/108085)Ð²Ð¸Ð´Ðµ (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1439)Ñ…Ð¾Ñ€Ð¾ (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/574184)

yellowcab

05-05-2026, 01:58 AM

Ritz (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031162)Bosc (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452613)MIEL (http://layabout.ru/shop/99241)ÐšÐ¾Ð½Ð´ (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/11772)Ð¸Ð½ÑÑ‚ (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/23747)Char (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/81987)Ð•Ð¼ÐµÐ» (http://leaveword.ru/shop/18133)8975 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/23766)ÐŸÐ¾Ð»ÑŒ (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/95552)Micr (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/18353)Ð´Ñ€ÑƒÐ· (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/46506)Ð¿Ð»Ð°Ñ (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/195426)Rubi (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/67225)EXTR (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/158885)Kenw (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/612456)
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