The Internet. . .Good or Bad?

[Nativedude]

I've been thinking about this for a long time and after this last week I knew I had to post this. How many of our members think that the internet is a good thing, especially when it comes to survival?

Now I know what most of you are going to say; "if it weren't for the internet we wouldn't have Wilderness Survival Forums". But that's not the context which I am posting this thread. This is what I'm talking about:

I had a small group of people come for a late fall survival camp. 2 were in their 40's, 3 in their 30's, a couple in their 50's, and 1 young KID that was 21. Can you guess which age group was the problem????? If you said the 21 y.o. you guessed correctly!

This kid was a non-stop walking encyclopedia of "survival" knowledge. A legend in his own mind. At 21 he's survived everywhere, in every condition, with every piece of modern equipment, and more primitively than even the Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals. One of those 'Been there done it all types'. According to him, he's traveled to every Continent on the planet, been to the jungle, desert, rain forest, arctic, antarctic, etc. . . .well, you get the idea. Everything he was spewing was straight from various survival web site. All theory, no practical application skills, nor the ability to ply his ever-abundant encyclopedia of supposed knowledge. His excuse, "I'll let other do, l'll watch and see how they do it".

So the big question is Is the internet really a good thing? Brfore you answer, ponder this. . . .

In my day we were outside, exploring, experiencing (first-hand) Mother Nature, getting our hands dirty, paying our dues through quality dirt-time. Today, kids get on the net, read a few web sites, and think that they know everything about everything. The thing that I find disturbing is that what they think they know (in theory) is much different in actual, practical, application, and could cost someone their life. Over-confidence through reading can put you in a world of hurt. . .QUICKLY!

So, again, Is the internet a good thing?

[Pal334]

I would say yes it is a good thing. To me it is like having a "super Book". I have always been an avid reader. I am fortunate that my kids love reading and the youngsters in my life also. It is the parents responsibility to teach them to have balance in their lives. I like to remind people that they have to exercise their bodies as much if not more than their minds. The "Know it alls" will always be "Know it alls" , we have had them since I was a kid (yup, I was a kid once). So I don't think the internet is the cause.

[your_comforting_company]

I see it like this.
The internet holds a wealth of information. If I had to buy every book on every subject of my studies, I'd be dead in the water, simply because I can't afford all the information. With an internet subscription, not only do I have access to information I need, but my kids can do their research for school, and my wife finds some really delicious recipes, etc, etc.

An individual MUST know where to draw the line with information they spout off. Myself, I choose not to repeat information I've read, but rather I share information I experience. If I tell you something works, It's because I've read about it, went outside and tried it, failed miserably, succeeded, and learned from the experience. If I've only read about something, I may post a link. If I've done it, I will be able to tell you what I've done and can share my successes and failures. I'm far from a survival expert in the desert or arctic. I know a little bit about surviving in my area. I can tell you about things I've done here, but theres no way I could tell you how to jump out of a plane or build an igloo, though I've read about both. though I can tell you that I couldn't survive in either of those situations. I am doing good to survive in my own house on a check to check basis...
I have a few friends of the same caliber as the 21 yo. They can tell you everything you need to know about braintan buckskin, although I'm the only one who has ever made any in my community. If you ask them, you will get a bunch of b.s. that they haven't experienced. Ask them a question about a detail, like "how long to leave it in the buck" and you will get a regurgitation of something they read from MY books, even though the author lives in a much different climate. If you ask me, I can tell you firsthand what works and what doesn't right here where we are.
No excuses. Either you can do it or you can't, and if you have only read about it and not tried it, then you don't really know and you should pay attention and take a turn trying it yourself before telling someone else how to do it.
It's the person sharing the information, not the internet, that is a bad thing. If it weren't for the net, I'd still be as ignorant as I was 20 years ago (@ 10 years old)

[Old GI]

The internet is like a weapon. An extraordinarily valuable tool when used properly; but can be very dangerous in the hands of a miscreant (Ken: Is that the correct word?).

[cowgirlup]

All good. Any tool can be misused. There are lots of people out there who are confident they are prepared and call themselves survivalists just because they have guns and read survival related info online.

The difference is having a true evaluation of your skills and abilities. There are a lot of things I haven't tried but I know enough basic that I could do OK in a pinch because I've learned about it online and in forums. I also realize I am no expert on any one thing. I wish I had the tiome to be but until then I'll learn what I can where I can.

[DOGMAN]

It sounds like this young man has problems beyond the internet. I gathered from what you wrote, that he is a world class liar/ Walter Mitty type...thats not the internets fault. Without the web, he would just have gathered a bunch of info from books, and still have the same annoying tendencies.

I have a funny similar story to share though...
A couple of winters ago, I was teaching "intro to kayaking" at the indoor pool at MSU, and I was explaining the eskimo roll- then demonstarted one. I then asked for questions or comments.

So this one young lad, speaks out and says my hand placement was wrong, and that I put too much emphasis on using my arms, and not enough with my hips!

I was taken back, and instantly thought "internet expert"! So, I said "Do you know how to roll" I was getting ready to put him in his place! He said, "No" so, I was thinking great here we go, I'll get a good laugh and put this punk down with a witty snap, about whose teaching the class, and whose taking the class....

But, he then blurted out..."I'm sorry...he told me to say that" and pointed at my co-instructor who erupted in laughter!

[owl_girl]

its a huge and awesome library. but if someone is stupid enough to rely on that alone that would be their flaw. a doctor reads many books before he is licensed but he also has hands on experience. it would awfully stupid for a dr to think he can operate on you without any hands on practice.

[finallyME]

I think that that is the same argument as "guns are bad because someone shot and killed someone else".

That kid would have become his own expert by reading books if there was no internet, just like murder wasn't invented right after the gun was.

[finallyME]

its a huge and awesome library. but if someone is stupid enough to rely on that alone that would be their flaw. a doctor reads many books before he is licensed but he also has hands on experience. it would awfully stupid for a dr to think he can operate on you without any hands on practice.


Unless he is the "Pretender". :clap:
http://www.hulu.com/watch/474/the-pretender-pilot

[doug1980]

Wow that 21 year old sounds like my neighbor. All lies. I have to agree with the others here, the internet is a good thing but can be bad if used improperly.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

I just wish there had been a fourth option... "Both".
There are sites that have Misinformation,and sometimes Too much information (like you are away on vacation) which can be dangerous. There are good sites that Have good info, which are beneficial. Since I see both of these on the web, I would have to say both good and bad. Since that was not a poll option I chose the next best answer... undecided.

[rwc1969]

The internet is "a long enough rope". IMO! I think YCC hit the nail on the head though.

Examples:

I've been to internet sites that give ID tips, edibility tips and recipes for mushrooms they clearly know nothing about. Some have pictures of poisonous mushrooms claiming they are edible. These sites are everywhere and encompass every subject. I looked for a recipe for squirrel casserole and the first 10 sites all had the same recipe word for word claiming it as their own.

I stumbled onto some squirrel cleaning videos. SAD! I did not see one video that showed how to clean a squirrel properly or safely. Most just showed crude field dressing and failed to follow up with important stuff like removing the scent glands, shot, fatty tissue, etc. Anyone using those videos is in for some nasty tasting squirrel or a slit wrist.

There are know it all forums out there too. I frequent a hunting and fishing forum and everytime someone asks a serious question they either get shot down for being stupid or they get 101 generic responses from armchair hunters, know it alls, that are just repeats of what someone else has heard rather than experienced. It's hard to wade thru the BS and pick out the truth at times.

One guy used to provide excellent information on any kind of mushroom you could think of. He was very well respected for his technical knowledge and experience with fungi. I recently found out he is just copying and pasting articles from the net, books, articles, etc. Makes me wonder how reliable this guy's info was. Armchair mycophile, he is. I don't think this guy is great at mushrooming. He's great at absorbing information and repeating it in a way that makes him appear knowledgable and experienced when in fact he is not. What's really crazy is people eat this stuff up. They would much rather put their trust in him rather than put it in someone who may have less book knowledge and typing/ speaking ability, but far greater experience with fungi hunting and experience. SAD!

It's not just the internet, but books as well. Lots of information being regurgitated in books and scientific articles where the authors are claiming expertise and in reality they're just passing on what they've read or heard from someone else without actually confirming it.

After reading Sam Thayer's book I have to agree that one should not pass on info unless they have intimate knowledge, and most importantly experience on the subject. If they do pass on "word of mouth" info they should let it be known.

I think the interent is a double edged sword. If it weren't for the net I wouldn't know what I know about mushrooms. And it would be very hard for me to learn anything about survival, wild plants, etc. without it. On the other hand, unless you are somewhat intelligent and wise to start with the internet is just gonna get you in trouble. Tons of misinformation!

The internet is only one part of the equation. Experience and the ability to weed out the BS is just as important. If you use the internet as a tool in part of this equation then it can speed up the learning process dramatically. If you just use the internet and fail to follow thru by weeding out the BS and experiencing it yourself then it's just an abomination and will most likely get you in trouble down the road.

[trax]

Like tv, it's just a passing fad

[2dumb2kwit]

I think the internet is a good thing, but like the others have said...it's a tool. The problem is that some people don't understand that most jobs require more than one tool....and the knowledge of which tools are needed......and how to use them! LOL

[Rick]

The greatest thing since sliced bread. Calling the internet a problem because some have no self control is a lot like calling a hammer a killing machine because someone used to club an administrator.....don't get any ideas.

[red lake]

I don't think that the internet will ever catch on to mainstream society. :lol:

[crashdive123]

It sounds like this young man has problems beyond the internet. I gathered from what you wrote, that he is a world class liar/ Walter Mitty type...thats not the internets fault. Without the web, he would just have gathered a bunch of info from books, and still have the same annoying tendencies.

I have a funny similar story to share though...
A couple of winters ago, I was teaching "intro to kayaking" at the indoor pool at MSU, and I was explaining the eskimo roll- then demonstarted one. I then asked for questions or comments.

So this one young lad, speaks out and says my hand placement was wrong, and that I put too much emphasis on using my arms, and not enough with my hips!

I was taken back, and instantly thought "internet expert"! So, I said "Do you know how to roll" I was getting ready to put him in his place! He said, "No" so, I was thinking great here we go, I'll get a good laugh and put this punk down with a witty snap, about whose teaching the class, and whose taking the class....

But, he then blurted out..."I'm sorry...he told me to say that" and pointed at my co-instructor who erupted in laughter!

Now that there's funny, I don't care who you are.

[oldsoldier]

Actually the internet can be both and bad! It is IMHO a tool. Just as a hammer is,or a firearm, or........ Whether it is good or bad depends on how you use it! If you use it for good.Helping to learn or share with others as we do here then it is great. BUT if you use it for nefarious reasons. Hacking, theft,________ then it can be the most evil!

[Rick]

Most just showed crude field dressing and failed to follow up with important stuff like removing the scent glands,...

RWC - I missed your post completely. I have cleaned a LOT of squirrels and I've never removed a "scent" gland. Didn't even know they had one. Where is it and how do you remove it?

[rwc1969]

I tried finding pics to show by doing an internet search, but only came up with a bunch more info that now has me completely confused, and feeling kinda dumb.

Apparently squirrels have scent glands in their cheeks, foreheads, feet, armpits, all four legs, small of back and lord knows where else. LOL! http://fooddownunder.com/cgi-bin/recipe.cgi?r=244384

I only remove the fatty stuff which is underneath each armpit and the small tufts of long hair that are on each forearm just past the wrist. Once you skin the squirrel you will sometimes remove the hairy tuft, but the glands will usually remain.
This is what I thought were the scent glands and by removing them I've eliminated the bad taste that is sometimes associated with squirrel.

I was told the squirrel uses these tufts to mark his nuts so he can find em later. I don't even know if that is true, but removing the above mentioned parts has eliminated the occasional foul tasting squirrel.

Every "good" link I found for preparing squirrels mentioned removing the shot and scent glands, but none told what they looked like or exactly where they all were located.

next time I clean a squirrel, hopefully tomorrow, I will take a good look all over for the extra glands wwhich I now apparently know nothing about. LOL!

[Rick]

Well, that's cool. It's called learning and that's why we're all here. It makes sense that they would have some type of scent gland I guess. I've just never heard of it or run into it. I don't think I've ever had a bad tasting squirrel either. Keep us posted. I'd like to see what you come up with.

[your_comforting_company]

I'm very interested in seeing the location of these glands. I've eaten a whole lot of squirrel, and still do regularly. Can't say that I've ever had a bad tasting one.

Just to be sure, we are talking about the red squirrels, right? not the grey ones?

[Ken]

These scent glands release a slow acting poison throughout the meat immediately upon the squirrel's death. This insidious toxin universally results in impotence and mental disorders in men. There is no cure........

If you need more proof, just remember that 2dumb has eaten lots of squirrel meat. :innocent:

[Ole WV Coot]

RWC - I missed your post completely. I have cleaned a LOT of squirrels and I've never removed a "scent" gland. Didn't even know they had one. Where is it and how do you remove it?


New one on me also. Cleaned plenty, ate plenty. The only thing I
can think of that effects the taste is squirrels cutting on green hickory nuts. Green hickory nuts definatly make the meat rotten. I personally use the internet for information & news on stocks, investments and tracking both. I pay all my utility bills online, don't have a credit card, don't buy stamps. Don't
use IM, use E Mail instead of letters. On a few informational forums, 14th KY & genology. I learn on this forum, don't on others. Now if Rick would only try my poison ivy cure.:sneaky2:

[rwc1969]

YCC, I eat red, fox, black and grey squirrels. the reds are the small ones that call you out when you're deer hunting. they're about twice as big as a chipmunk. I don't know if the reds have em. I haven't ate many reds, mostly grey, black and fox.

I think it definitely makes a difference. I have family members who would never eat squirrel and now they do.

if I get some more I'll take pics and post. Plus, I'm gonna look em over and see if I can find the other numerous glands they supposedly have.:online2long:

[Rick]

The only black squirrels around here are ones that have been dead awhile. How about white ones? :thumbup:


Now if Rick would only try my poison ivy cure.

Of all the dirty....the man just wants to make me sick....no doubt about it.

[NCO]

I'm undecided. There is a lot of good (Wikipedia, this forum, etc.) but there is also child porn, bomb making instructions, etc. So there is both. It mostly a good thing, but as there is many bad things around too it is not truly good.

[oneraindog]

tools are not good or bad. they are nuetral. its what people do with the tools that is up for judgment.

as has already been said it doesnt take the internet to get someone showing off how stupid they are. in the course im taking there is a guy i think hasnt even seen a computer in 10 years and that doesnt stop him from spouting off just the same as the kid in the OP.

[Batch]

Nativedude,

You really answered your own question. You live in a very remote area without many of the luxuries of town living. But, you have chosen a computer with internet access as a tool that takes up valuable space and resource. You also pay a fair portion of your annual cost of living toward that sat bill.

As for learning bomb making or anything else. As with any good tool, the internet just makes it easier. Bombs were being made long before the internet. Guns are centuries old and man is not going to unlearn how to build them.

As for the gasbag in the class. They will always be and he would have been an expert even without the internet. Just tell em to show you how good they are...

[FVR]

I remember back in 95 trying to get info on how to build bows. It was a long and tiring task. I did manage to get the info and start building. Now I can point you to many sites that have it right there, in your face.

There is always going to be bad with the good. As far as bomb building etc., that is just imagination and trial and error. The error will leave you fingerless or dead.

You can not stop progress.

[Scoobywan]

The internet is a good thing no doubt about it..... the people using and contributing to the internet on the other hand are very questionable. :)

[Mischief]

Without the internet,most people would not have a life.
TRUE!
mischief

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

пи�а (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4622)137.2 (http://cottagenet.ru)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com)Клав (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1246418)Кады (http://filmzones.ru/t/1070600)Якуш (http://gadwall.ru/t/1213437)Some (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1103537)Seth (http://gageboard.ru/t/1096253)MPEG (http://gagrule.ru/t/1025294)клей (http://gallduct.ru/t/1163886)о�об (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1439159)Gary (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1413518)Firs (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1698723)пара (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1357232)
Ciri (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1084135)Robe (http://gascautery.ru/t/1221453)Лекц (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1240960)Добр (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1241536)(193 (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1242358)Бо�д (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1245816)rgar (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1569138)Кали (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1241409)Хран (http://geartreating.ru/t/1199491)ARTE (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1133927)Ryan (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1313815)Hist (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1225588)Кова (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1436548)Моло (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1241969)Упор (http://getthebounce.ru/t/857084)
Ка�а (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1171356)Intr (http://habituate.ru/t/1092941)Shaa (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1212550)Mary (http://hackworker.ru/t/1375297)Мицк (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1104811)Bill (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1100406)Char (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1222949)Cand (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1125502)СМСо (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1226908)на�т (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1219821)Todd (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/973365)Patr (http://haltstate.ru/t/989974)Савш (http://handcoding.ru/t/1226429)Морм (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1489821)Корн (http://handradar.ru/t/956967)
Well (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1145085)Ñ�ерт (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1144936)Umbe (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/977373)камн (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/809945)церк (http://hardasiron.ru/t/833718)Черн (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1009804)Цубу (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1048610)1924 (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1003555)вузо (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1240080)MODO (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547619)Ð*нге (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1400163)MODO (http://headregulator.ru/t/1547668)Eleg (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1548058)Port (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1201071)Osir (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1547025)
Migu (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1183113)(188 (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/796101)Мате (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/847749)Ð*оди (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1376347)Голу (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/836949)воен (http://jobstress.ru/t/1028039)Пожи (http://jogformation.ru/t/1066900)Ñ�ерт (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1148361)XVII (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1224320)СваÑ� (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1328006)Соде (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1148335)Grad (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180998)trai (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182508)теле (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1187866)Sela (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180667)
Крим (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181733)Коро (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/834558)молн (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1187727)Blac (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1189309)Maur (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/889691)Морг (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/833248)Niki (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181531)VIII (http://kickplate.ru/t/1438515)(Без (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1373246)Rims (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1129167)фото (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1489725)�каз (http://kinozones.ru/film/9518)McBa (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1230330)Серо (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1245812)Fall (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711362)
Rich (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1230059)учен (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1241570)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1548880)Бобн (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1371580)чита (http://laborracket.ru/t/1489771)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1549160)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548848)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191216)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189852)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1189524)бабо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1298170)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194290)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192592)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190870)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192522)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192612)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194292)Alex (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1348979)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185700)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185669)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187095)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189666)Tril (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1551267)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187541)фиан (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185893)Best (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1202686)маму (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1152064)кукл (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/105776)Lanc (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1422)пов� (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/304846)

[yellowcab]

зеле (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031146)Mabe (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452590)Anti (http://layabout.ru/shop/99230)конÑ� (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/11757)комп (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/22245)инÑ�Ñ‚ (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/81378)XIII (http://leaveword.ru/shop/18105)Ð*азм (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/22044)8158 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/95537)Wood (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/18322)множ (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/46305)плаÑ� (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/195403)Pier (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/54343)URBA (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/158870)Infi (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/612417)
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