View Full Version : MONEY.....(Being Wealthy).....the ultimate Survival TOOL...
Sourdough
10-25-2009, 07:54 PM
For all of my ranting about physical fitness, and the ability to work long hours day after day after day. I pains me to start to see that money is the ultimate survival tool. And yes, Sarge....having enough brains to get out of harms-way. I have been studying www.Ferfal.blogspot.com aka Surviving in Argentina. It seems the some people survive by moving out of the country during civil war, or leave in front of a approaching hurricane. Maybe a small Bug'out Bag full of money & Passport is the answer..........:)
It's another tool and it certainly should be viewed that way. One of the things I've advocated for a long time is as much cash in small bills as you can muster. It's a good thing to have three or four trailer containers on your property and have them full of food, guns, ammo, etc. But if you find you just HAVE to leave it's sort of hard to take it with you. So, yeah, cash is king, queen and a fine prince of a fellow.
TucsonMax
10-25-2009, 10:53 PM
I disagree on "money being the ultimate survival tool."
Certainly, in terms of money, there's a difference between leaving "in front of an approaching huricane" and a "civil war". You don't need to be wealthy to escape a huricane... but how hard is it, living in the first world, to escape a huricane and how much survival skills does one need to prep for that?
But if TSHTF, how much would cold cash really help?
I live less than 1 hr from the Mexican border and I've thought about these issues and heading south. If it's a military/terrorist strike, would the Mexican border be open, or roads clogged and the crossing flooded by US refugees and thus closed by the Mexican army?
Could I hire/bribe a private pilot to fly my family over the border? Forget filing an appropriate international flight plan 2 days in advance. Forget having the legally required insurance and flight documentation (yes we have passports). Forget permission to land at an actual Mexican airport (where we could get on another flight to an English speaking country.) How about landing any air strip, maybe the kind operated by the drug cartels, where the army shoots down small planes and asks questions later. How much cash would it take? $1,000, $5,000, $10,000?
Zero because the pilot has already fled with his family... he's outa here before I can reach him (if the phones work.) Forget any prior deals, relationships or deposits. He and his will come before me and mine, period. Or worse, someone has already "borowed" his plane before he reaches the airport. What good then is my money?
Let's say, "I'm a pilot", even own my own plane. Could I get my family (young kids) to the airport and my hanger before ten thousand other Tucsonans who live closer than I do? Could I get the hanger open, taxi out and actually get airborne? What if we get stuck at the airport, when all of my survival inventory is hidden at home. If we run out of gas sitting in traffic, could we get home (20 miles)?
Could I (somehow) arrange with a private Mexican pilot to fly into the US and pick us up (where?) Could I hire a Mexican helocopter pilot (where does he get the copter?) to breach US air space to pick us up in front of our house? Wouldn't the US military shoot down a Mexican plane or copter (assuming they are operational)? And how much money would he want? What if he arrived and demanded 10X more in cash or wouldn't let my kids board? Or why would he risk his life for me, in the first place?
In a true, EOTWAWKI survival situation, even with $1 million in cash, I can't see how we could get out. Water (in the desert), food, bullets, medicine, matches, etc would (I think) within days be a better currency then dollars.
hoosierarcher
10-26-2009, 02:49 AM
A friend I went to High School and College with that had similar socio-political ideas to mine at those times in our life and asked me to teach him to shoot and my opinion of firearms and knives and survival equipment went from being an hourly employee before graduation to a salaried executive after. His income quadrupled(at least). He became a yuppy. He paid to have his lawn mowed, rather than doing it himself. He stopped practicing with his firearms, except when I invited him to go with me. He quit fishing, took up kayaking(which he gave up after he got married and gain 50 pounds).
Having a lot of money tends to make people lazy. Oddly enough so does having almost no money. The first laziness born of the "I'll pay someone else to do it" mentality the other because fo apathy. Now if one takes a windfall and buys whatever they need to get by come the balloon going up, then money was a means to an end that helped.
Still, I've been kinda rich and kinda poor. Kinda rich IS better. the differance is buying the secluded, self sustaining retreat and all the equipment needed and having to bargain hunt to build a B.O.B. and a way to some National Forest land.
Money is a tool but it will not buy you skills and practice, while money can get you all the top of line kit you need if you cant use it because you dont know how then all that top of the line kit is useless. I have $70.00 knife I wouldn't trade for $80, 90, 100, or thousand dollar knife because for me it does everything I need. Money doesnt make you better it just helps on certain things, and it really doesn't buy happiness but it can make you comfortable.
Just my thoughts
Beo,
Winnie
10-26-2009, 08:40 AM
Well I reckon there's a lot to be said for having emergency money. In the initial aftermath of a disaster there's always those who are out to make money and if you've got it, you're in a pretty good bargaining position. However, longer term, skills, tools and food would be better currency because money will be worthless.
I don't think money will ever be worthless. Greed is just too strong. There will always be someone willing to part with whatever they have for money.
In a disaster, money is absolutely essential because electricity will be out and that means ATMs won't work, banks will be closed and no one is going to cash a check. Try filling up your tank with no money. Buy milk for the kids without it.
My step brother was in Houston, Tx. when Katrina rolled through. He and his family traveled inland 150 miles before they found a hotel room and the hotel was booked shortly after they arrived. It took them nearly 9 hours to travel 150 miles because the traffic was so bad. It takes gas and food to travel.
You can probably try exchanging bullets for gas or knives for gas but I doubt anyone is going to trade.
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 09:03 AM
I'll bet more poor people died in Hurricane Katrina, that wealthy people. Say what.....yea the wealthy left three days early, and went to a $300.00 per night hotel in Las Vegas. When a country is engulfed in civil unrest, the wealthy leave for a few years, and come back when order is restored. Yea....if the SHTF we will sure have to feel sorry for wealthy people when things are rough.
Pal334
10-26-2009, 09:16 AM
Money is an enabler. Most likely be the first "tool" needed in most scenarios. It may depreciate, or inflate, but I think history will show that those that had at least some money faired better than those without (like was mentioned above about Katrina). Keep whatever you can afford under the mattress for a few days to weeks expenses is probably a sound idea.
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 09:19 AM
However, longer term, skills, tools and food would be better currency because money will be worthless.
Wealthy people hire people with skills and tools and food. Wealthy people keep some of their wealth in many different countries. I have for some time been questioning the assumptions that survivalist make. Like no law and order, the worse it gets the more oppressed we will get. There will be more law and order not less. The assumption of no government, is silly, the worse it gets the MORE Government we will get, not less.
It all depends on the situation, really. Money in and EOTWAWK isn't going to be worth squat, money when I break my leg out ing the wilds aint worth squat, money after a hurricane, flood, earthquake, tornado or other disaster such as this of course.
The gooberment can only run what things we let them, we vote them in and on certain things and what we dont vote on your senator and congressman do for you so tell them what you think, voice your opinion. If you dont vote dont complain, and so many people say I never call my congressman because it does no good. That is not true. Try it.
I'm not really into the whole conspiracytheory thing myself so I dont worry on that government takeover stuff.
Just my opinion.
Beo,
Sourdough, I get the sense you are being sarcastic with the, "Yea....if the SHTF we will sure have to feel sorry for wealthy people when things are rough" comment. Am I wrong?
I don't begrudge Bill Gates one nickle. He started out in a garage and built an empire. If he has the money to build underground bunkers or jets that fly him to safety then more power to him. That is the American dream is it not? I'm quite certain you didn't work as a guide for free. I didn't work for free either. It's why folks buy lottery tickets each week or bet on horses or visit the casino or do all three.
If I read you wrong, I apologize.
In the book World War Z (great read, just overlook the zombie crap and its a SHTF book aftermath) there is a chapter of a guy who is a Private Security Contractor to a very wealthy man, when the shtf all the money did no good, they (the wealthy) were out for themselves and turned on each other and the ones with the skills left them high and dry.
Money cant buy skills and if the one you hire leaves or dies or up the creek again.
BENESSE
10-26-2009, 10:49 AM
Well to use a recurring theme around here, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it".
Having money and skills is not mutually exclusive. A lot of rich people made their money the old fashioned way--they WORKED for it. They made sacrifices along the way and learned how not to blow more than they made.
Only the exceptions make the news but that doesn't stop people from generalizing.
crashdive123
10-26-2009, 12:12 PM
It has been said that those with money may have a better chance at survival if TSHTF. While that may be true, preparedness is the key. Now, with money, one might be able to afford to prepare differently than those with very little money. I don't think the key is "having money" but rather "not needing as much of it". Bragg would be so proud of this next part.....Don't live beyond your means, pay off debt. While I disagree with Bragg (I do not advocate buying up precious metals as an investment) we should all invest in something. We invest in our skills, storing food and supplies, our relationships, etc. Don't misunderstand me - money is good and can be helpful, but if TS truly HTF, not having a $1500 a month mortgage, not having a $400 a month car payment, or a bunch of credit card bills will certainly ease your burden and give you the peace of mind that comes with being more self-reliant.
doug1980
10-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Frankly I would hate to be the rich guy if TSHTF. Talk about a huge target. Same with being the very prepared guy too I spose. The bottom line is money doesn't buy everything, and no matter how much of it one may have, you can't take it with you when you die. I'm curious though, what made this topic come up? Why do some concern themselves with the way others prepare? I'm not rich so I don't wonder how rich people prepare or how they will end up. I concern myself with me and my family. That's just me though.
BENESSE
10-26-2009, 01:07 PM
If the past is the best predictor of the future, then yes, being wealthy is the ultimate survival tool. "Ultimate" not to be confused with "The Only".
Think about this:
During the early stages of the Nazi movement in Germany, Jews who could see the writing on the wall (NPI)) and could afford a passage on a ship for themselves and their family left and lived to talk about it.
Most who stayed behind and somehow managed to survive thanks to their skills, resilience, and just plain dumb luck, did so because they had no choice.
What this comes down to (at least for me) is that cash is still king but you better have some skills to fall back on because there are no guarantees.
pocomoonskyeyes
10-26-2009, 01:49 PM
In a Worst case scenario, IF I had something that was necessary to survival, I.E. Food, Tools, Skills, Supplies. Money would be one of the last things I would want. I can't eat it,can't work with it,Can't make anything with it(Well maybe origami). Basically money is useless in a true food - to - mouth survival situation. It can't keep me fed,clothed,warm,etc. I am of course referring to being lost in the deep woods, TEOTWAWKI, 2012, Etc.(I just had to throw that last one in,Since it COULD be TEOTWAWKI) In this scenario I would laugh if you offered me $1500.00 for a cough drop. YES, Money Currently IS King. However it wouldn't be the first Monarchy to be toppled. It probably won't be the last either. Yes, money currentky is the "Currency" of Choice. However in just a couple of years, it could be Chickens that are the "Currency" of choice.
Another common saying around here - "Just sayin'...."
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 01:50 PM
Why do some concern themselves with the way others prepare?.
Doug, read some of FerFal's post's on his blog that was given in the original post. The guy has been through two melt-downs of Argentina, and civil unrest, and economic collapses. As you know I like, "Boots in the field", not Mad Max fantasy end of the world. I feel FerFal's info is more relevant than Jim Rawles information, because it is based on history, not fantasy.
hunter63
10-26-2009, 02:17 PM
Cash might not be king, but it's a lot easier to carry, and is another tool in the box.
The SHTF somewhere just about every day. To examine what those folks did that live(d) there during that time is an exercise in learning because it may well be applicable to your situation some day. I like Ferfal. I've read his stuff for some time. The best thing I like about him is he is pretty level headed.
Doug - For me, it's not so much a concern about how others prepare but just an examination of how they prepare. It let's me then critique my own preps. Especially good if they've been through SHTF and were successful in coming out the other side.
BENESSE
10-26-2009, 02:48 PM
What's wrong with covering ALL your bases and learning from EVERYONE you can?
As the saying goes, a smart man learns from the mistakes of others, a dumb one from his own. IMP the smartest man learns from both.
pocomoonskyeyes
10-26-2009, 02:58 PM
What's wrong with covering ALL your bases and learning from EVERYONE you can?
As the saying goes, a smart man learns from the mistakes of others, a dumb one from his own. IMP the smartest man learns from both.
Very well said!! It wouldn't let me give you any "Rep" or I would have!!
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 03:14 PM
What's wrong with covering ALL your bases and learning from EVERYONE you can?
As the saying goes, a smart man learns from the mistakes of others, a dumb one from his own. IMP the smartest man learns from both.
Remember some of us have been studying this stuff for 50 years. Hell was near 40 years ago, when Nixon signed the paper work to totally close the Gold Window. Some of us reading Bradford Alger, Harry Browne, Charles Schultz, Howard Ruff, and others. With rioting in America, and civil unrest in America, and 17.7% Official Inflation Rate.
Was near 40 years ago, I sold everything, bought 100 Oz. Silver Bars @ $2.98 per Oz., Filed for a Alaska Homestead, and moved to where the nearest neighbor was 77.6 miles away. Even had a case of Dupont Dynamite. It looked like the "END" was imminent, America was already in disarray, Massive Labor strikes, Wage & Price Freeze, High inflation, Troops guarding the colleges, Civil Rights Riots, Anti-War Riots.
I agree learn from all of it, but at some point you have to choose what has a 8.3% chance of happening and what has a 71.4% chance of happening, and what has NEVER......EVER Happened, and is not worth planning for.
doug1980
10-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Well luckily for me I have never had much money and prolly never will. :) So this scenario will never affect me. Then again I'm not a huge believer in the whole EOTWAWKI type stuff either. That may come to bite me on the butt later, but then again I'm not so sure I would even want to live through that. I prepare for natural disasters and try to be prepared when I'm out in the woods, and that's about it. In those cases money can help. How can money help me when I'm in the woods....well it took money to buy all the things I took with me, all the survival gear, so money does help.
As far as social collapse and all that... I'm sure it could happen and since I barely live within my means it would be devastating. But if it all really did collapse I doubt the bank will repo my vehicles and even if they did who cares.... couldn't get fuel for them anyway.
I agree learn from all of it, but at some point you have to choose what has a 8.3% chance of happening and what has a 71.4% chance of happening, and what has NEVER......EVER Happened, and is not worth planning for.
Can it be? Is it possible? He's come over to the dark side? Economic meltdown has never occurred that's why I don't plan for it. By the way, the dark side has Twinkies.
crashdive123
10-26-2009, 04:36 PM
You just have to scan the horizon to be able to see what might be happening that could have an impact on you.
Take for example France. I just read about the French Vanilla Creamer Blight that is impacting the region. Sacre Bleu!
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 04:55 PM
Can it be? Is it possible? He's come over to the dark side? Economic meltdown has never occurred that's why I don't plan for it. By the way, the dark side has Twinkies.
NO...It is on the back burner.....I have NO Debt, and the electric bill is PRE-PAID three years in advance, the estimated Credit Card charges are pre-paid six months in advance. The thousand gallon fuel tank is full. The wood is split for two years +++. All effort now is on a small well insulated residence for a cranky old man, complete with indoor toilet and shower, To be completed by winter of 2010.
Holy cow! You keep that up and there will be a woman in the picture, too.
Sourdough
10-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Holy cow! You keep that up and there will be a woman in the picture, too.
Most likely TOO LATE........as it stands now the cabin will not be big enough for two. Of course there is always the barn.......:):):)
Hey, you can always put a second story on the cabin or build her a lean to. Of course, if she's a GOOD woman she should be able to build it herself.
BENESSE
10-26-2009, 06:07 PM
NO...It is on the back burner.....I have NO Debt, and the electric bill is PRE-PAID three years in advance, the estimated Credit Card charges are pre-paid six months in advance. The thousand gallon fuel tank is full. The wood is split for two years +++. All effort now is on a small well insulated residence for a cranky old man, complete with indoor toilet and shower, To be completed by winter of 2010.
You know what Sourdough?
You're just too cute to go to seed, and some good ol' girl is gonna to realize that real soon.
'Course a little help from you forum "friends" shouldn't hurt either.
We probably give him more help than he can stand.
crashdive123
10-26-2009, 09:32 PM
...and there is some help that even his forum friends draw the line at.
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yellowcab
05-04-2026, 09:11 PM
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Push (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182818)Nori (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/768985)Лагз (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/817975)XVII (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1246063)Шамб (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/795717)детс (http://jobstress.ru/t/816416)Chan (http://jogformation.ru/t/1032210)серт (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1148041)прак (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1148349)XIII (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1228929)серт (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1148042)Sela (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180711)Brau (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1182215)Бара (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1183566)Silv (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1180357)
Vent (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181432)Соко (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/810195)Four (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183427)реме (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1187958)Леон (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/814600)Jack (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/782096)styl (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181224)Степ (http://kickplate.ru/t/1353654)Олес (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1251490)газе (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1056815)моли (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1246501)Марш (http://kinozones.ru/film/9421)Edit (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1179100)Serg (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1132088)Robe (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711218)
Гращ (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1002117)Волк (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1208233)Кесс (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1381735)Попо (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1248066)(198 (http://laborracket.ru/t/1255915)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1548834)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1548542)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190919)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1189580)diam (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188861)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1187189)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1193884)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192271)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190575)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192218)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192261)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193914)Alfr (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1223441)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185414)Chet (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185358)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186793)меня (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188982)Kare (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1311727)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187249)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185592)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191372)Cohi (http://largeheart.ru)KKOE (http://lasercalibration.ru)Науш (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1325)Phil (http://laserpulse.ru)
yellowcab
05-04-2026, 09:12 PM
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