Newest Bow

[canid]

Here's a White Ash and Walnut longbow i'm starting on. i'd like to have a glass parallel laminate under the Walnut for security but can't afford any glass at the moment. i'm curious to see how she comes out.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_0032_scaled-cropped.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_0034_scaled-cropped.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_0031_scaled-cropped.jpg

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Do you mean fiberglass resin and mat when you refer to glass? By the way looks really nice I am wanting to try my hand at bow making when I am finished watchin' and learnin'.

[canid]

this bow is made by cutting a parallel lamination 1/4" thick from white ash board with a straight grain, and surfacing one side [by block sanding] to 3/8" with a coarse grit paper, to increase gluing surface area. the board was cut by tablesaw.

the width of the board is 1 1/2", but for a hunting weight with these woods at this thickness, you could use between 1 3/8" to 1 5/8" and still have plenty of room to play around with at tiller.

a second [mostly cosmetic in this case] lamination is cut and surfaced on both sides to 1/8". this is glued up to the surfaced back of the ash board by applying a bead of tightbond II to both sides, coating evenly but thinly, and clamping evenly against a rigid board. the glue-up is allowed to set and cure for 24-48 hours, depending on humidity.

next, i used a straight-edge and pencil to make a straight line down the length of the lamination, keeping it in the center of the board where the riser will be, and extended a straight line to the tips. this ensures the board will be straight and the tips inline with the center of the bow after the limbs are shaped.

after this glue-up, i measured off the area the riser would be glued to and surfaced, again by block sanding on the ash side [belly]. to this i glued a 1 1/2 inch wide block of walnut 1 5/8" thick by 10" long. i marked off the riser [handle block] fades using the edge of a pizza pan as a template to trace around [i often do]. i cut these out with a bandsaw, starting my cut at the outside, blade parallel with the limb belly [to avoid cutting too deep and cutting into the limbs by mistake].

i measured the riser area with my hand where it would grip the finished bow and marked off the arrow shelf 1/3" above where my index finger would rest. this will allow me to take off nearly that much later while arcing the arrow shelf. i market off the contour of the inside of the arrow pass with pencil and cut that out.

i profiled the width of the limbs as i often do by beginning the taper at mid-limb. many people use a pyramid taper, beginning at the fades, and in a straight line down to the final width of the tips.

i have sanded the sharp edges smooth, and induced a bit of a trapezoidal profile to the limbs [being slightly wider at the belly side than the back]. i will tiller, using a small tillering stick i use by sanding from the belly.

[canid]

the glass laminations often used by bowyers are a mostly unidirectional woven cloth/tape which are resin impregnated and heat cured, then cut to width and length, then ground to spec [desired thickness or taper]. i could do this myself, but not without a bit of expenditure, and i could only make parallels.

they are commercially sold pre-fabricated, if a bit over-priced in many instances.

laminations of materials with higher tensile strengths than the limb/belly wood can increase the elasticity of many bow limb designs by moving the neutral place out towards the back, so that the bulk of the wood is under compression, rather than under tension [being stretched]. in this bow, it would add massively to the strength, as sawn Walnut has some tendency to split and crack under tension. the glass's resistence to stretch would put the whole belly into compression and alleviate most of the tension from the walnut backing.

[canid]

cowboy:many of my bows, when i'm just fiddling around are made from solid red oak board. you can make a great board bow from this wood, it is cheap in many areas so you needn't worry much i you mess something up along the way, and it's easy to work [saws easy, planes easy, sands easy, etc.]

i still use it for practice and for making youth bows. i've got a current one almost finished as we speak.

[canid]

maybe next i should make a thread about my fishing-line bowstrings, since i need to make a couple of them.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Thanks for the reply and any info you can provide would be helpful. FVR pointed me to the Red Oak Board bow as well. I have been wanting to give it a go.

[canid]

and some working music (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=3E596CC374C3B6F2&search_query=highland+pipes).

[canid]

recurving tips:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_0036_scaled-cropped.jpg

handle shaped more:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_0038_scaled-cropped.jpg

the tips are recurved by steaming them over a large covered pot on the stovetop for 20 min. and then the tip is placed against the recurving block, the front clamp set in place and then the limb is bent smoothly untill it can be clipped under the back clamp. this is allowed to set up in a dry environment untill it has cooled, though in glued layups like this it should probably be left on the recurving block in a dry environment for 48 hours.

[crashdive123]

Canid - when you put it in the jig to curve it do just steam the wood first?

[canid]

yes, for 20 min.

[canid]

i haven't had the best luck heat bending ash, so i'm steaming it in this case. i will still temper it after it is fully dry, with a heat gun.

[edit: second limb cooling now]

[canid]

recurving done:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_00389_scaled-cropped.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/IMG_00369_scaled_cropped.jpg

i might induce a bit of deflex aswell, but i think after breaking in it might take just enough set to make a difference anyway. i tend to tiller kinda' hard'

[FVR]

Looking good.

Question...what glue do you use that can take the steam and won't seperate? I have always wondered about this when it came to making a comp. recurve with no glass.

Frank

[canid]

tightbond II or III. both will soften with steaming and set up again as soon as they are dry.

[Tootsiepop254]

It looks wonderful!

[canid]

if i can get my bamboo from Denair i may use some to back this guy, but it's holding strong at floor tiller.

[canid]

here is an idea of what finial stain and finish will look like:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/first_stain.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/first_stain_handle.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/first_stain_tip.jpg

this bow is not nearly finished, but i like to seal early. it makes sanding easier and in this dry air, it helps keep the wood from becomming too dry and brittle. the only danger there is there being too much moisture in the wood, which could get locked in and shorten the life of the bow.

[crashdive123]

Looking good. I like the contrast in the different woods you used.

[canid]

you might like the ash in the belly too then. i first rubbed in a coat of a nice waxy cherry PU stain, which colored the grain nicely, then applied the light [pecan] stain, rubbing well to blend any excess cherry well, which lightened it all up considerably. this left a nice contrast in the figure.

[Survival Guy 10]

Dude you are amazing ever think of selling these

[canid]

i do sell them sometimes.

as i'm learning, i'm putting together a small business to help support the addiction.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

I am very impressed! I am too stubborn about making my own stuff or I'd be asking you what you want for it! I am sucking this up like a sponge!

[canid]

i'm now gluing on antler tip overlays.

i've have to leave this indoors a couple days now. during that day of overcast we had here the wood took on a bit more moisture. pics comming soon.

[canid]

here are a few pictures beginning the tiller.


on the tillering stick, getting ready:
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/before.jpg

at 12" on the long string:
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/longstring12in.jpg

[crashdive123]

Your bowling ball seems a bit dusty. Nice work on the bow.

[FVR]

Looking good.


That reminds me, need to get some lighter fluid so I can get the smoker up and smoke some venison and salmon.

Thanks.

[canid]

nice; i wish i had your problems :D

[canid]

true story, until the 15th of november on the river we have a generous bag limit of 1 salmon and 0 trout.

where they stick it to you though is in reality; you won't catch one.

[canid]

if this bow turns out as i am hoping, it will likely go to toostiepop.

i'll be starting on a few more as i tiller this one. one of them is a special one.

[Winnie]

Lovely bow Canid, takes me back to my archery days. Any chance you'd ship overseas??

[Rick]

Very nice. You really do some nice work.

[canid]

haha, i could, but it would cost more than the bow. lol.

[Tootsiepop254]

if this bow turns out as i am hoping, it will likely go to toostiepop.

:clap: :thumbup:

[canid]

sorry for the delay. with this damp weather i've been letting the bow dry a bit before getting too far with the tiller. it is shaping up well. i expect to get back to it early this morning.

it's early in the tiller still, but it's looking like finishing out about 45-50lb of draw. with that walnut on there i don't want to over-stress the back.

[canid]

here it is at i think 15" on the short string. the tiller is half done [most of the work done in the last two hours]

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/shortstring15in.jpg

i need to get more bend in the outer half of the lower limb, and throughout the upper.

the weight is looking a bit light, and it might finish out closer to 40lb. @ 28"

[Rick]

What's the difference between the "long string" and the "short string" (besides length)?

If you make a mistake on the tiller do you use tiller filler? (Ha!)

[canid]

If you make a mistake on the tiller do you use tiller filler?


hah indeed! i wish.

the long string is a string about the length of the bow, so that you can begin bending the bow from a starting point of no resistence [bend] and work along by the inch.

once you are tillered safely to your brace point [the profile the bow should have when strung] you can switch to a short string, at or near the length of the final string to be used. from that point, you can see [and adjust] the way the bow will finally bend as it's being drawn.

[Rick]

Thank you. Learning is almost painless on here. Very nice job on the bow!!

[canid]

thank you sir.

[crashdive123]

Nice work. Since you ave da peaks I sap hose ate dad harpoon.

[Rick]

thank you sir.

That, folks, is how you are SUPPOSED to speak to an Administrator. Respect, that's what I'm talkin' about.

[canid]

i'll have final pics up soon, but toostie let me know when you'll be ready for it, it should be finished after another hour of work and a little playing around [gotta break it in a tad to prove it, right?]

i've also got a supprise coming for you all

[crashdive123]

Woo Hoo!

Congrats Tootsie.

[Rick]

Ooooh. Surprises!!!! We love surprises. Can you give us a hint? Pleeeeeeeeeeaaaase?

[canid]

hrm, a hint...

well it's another bow, and it's similar in most ways to the once i'm finishin.

[Rick]

Hot diggity! Another bow!!!!!

[crashdive123]

Twins!!! Congratulations Canid.

[canid]

the tiller is finished, and i'm now re-sealing it. the first coat of minwax is drying as we speak.

i'll get the final pics and some draw shots before applying the second coat.

[canid]

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/fullback.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/closeupback.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/closeuptip.jpg

[Rick]

Gee whiz. That really is a nice looking bow. You should be proud of the work you do. Very nice.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Very Nice Indeed! I can see you are a patient man! It shows in your work that obviously isn't rushed!

[canid]

i try, but to be honest, i tend to get most of the work done in spurts, when i'm in that zone, and try not to touch my work when i'm not.

i always end up with small flaws, usually cosmetic. you can see one of them in the arrow pass: the saw tooth marks which i couldn't quite sand out. if i fixate on them, i try to push too hard and invariably become sloppy. you might say i've learned instead to live with imperfection.

they say we are our own worst critics.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

i always end up with small flaws, usually cosmetic. you can see one of them in the arrow pass: the saw tooth marks which i couldn't quite sand out.
they say we are our own worst critics.

HUH? You obviously see something I don't.

[crashdive123]

It's a beauty. Nice work.

[Rick]

That's true of most folks, Canid. I used to do quite a bit of wood work and still do some from time to time. I can see every imperfection I've ever made and you might as well put a billboard next to. It's that glaring to me. But no one else seems to see them unless I point them out. So......I learned early on not to point them out.

[FVR]

That's just nice. You sure can make a bow.

[canid]

thank you all for your kind, or over-kind ;) words.

i can't seem to find the fine burnished leather i had laying around. i was planning to use it on the arrow pass/shelf.

i am in the proccess of twisting up the string, and i have some coyote fur for silencers. i also need to find my serving thread.

[canid]

final tiller adjustment is still breaking in. i'll begin shooting this in tomorrow:

strung:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Ash-Walnut%20Longbow%2009-09/finalstrung.jpg

there will be some more pics, when i have the final touches, and i have pics of my fishing line string twist up i'll be posting aswell. these are extremely durable strings, made from dacron/nylon braid line of 80lb test. this string is 6 strand, twined. the silencers are coyote.

[crashdive123]

Definitely a work of art. Nicely done.

[rwc1969]

Real pretty Canid. A work of art.

[canid]

tragedy with this bow.

after making another minor tiller adjustment [limber up one of the midlimbs a tad], i figured i shouldn't have to check the tiller on the tree [it was already tillered to a full draw].

i overstressed the walnut at a runoff and lost the bow.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Epic%20Fail/IMG_0101.jpg

this is my first draw failure. i'm a little bummed.

i haven't lost confidence in this walnut for bows like these, as this was my mistake, but given the delamination during the failure, i'm no longer so sure about the steaming after glueup.

[pocomoonskyeyes]

Aww Man, that sucks! It sure was purty!

[canid]

i thought so too.

i'm on my way to pick up the replacement drive belt for my sander though [no more hours on end of hand sanding!] and i'm starting on a new recurve bi-lam.

this one will be longer [less stress on any one spot] and will be walnut backed cherry. we'll see how it comes out.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Don't be too bummed Canid! because of experience you know more than most ever will.

[crashdive123]

Too bad. It was a beutiful piece of work (still is).

[Rick]

I'm bummed for you. It was a beautiful work of art.

Wood can be such a finicky material to work with sometimes. Salvage what you can out of it and thank the bow spirit for the education, training and practice it gave you. The bow is not yet what it wanted to be or it wouldn't have de-laminated. There is something else in that bow waiting to emerge.

[FVR]

If you are not breaking them, you are not making them.

Sorry for your loss. Just to make you feel better, I've broken the 2 of the last 4 I've made.

currently working on a 72" Cherokee D style bow.

Good luck.

[canid]

i got my drive belt for the sander. i'll get back to work on the other projects in the morning, including the walnut cherry bi-lam.

[madmantrapper]

Man that is a dang shame, but it happens.

[canid]

it does. here's what i'm working on now: bambo backed black walnut/cherry trilam:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0116.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0117.jpg

i'm gluing up a small handle block now. after that i'm going to sand it to profile, and glue up the belly lam.

wish me luck.

[crashdive123]

Good luck. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[FVR]

I just finished a 72" longbow. Looks more Cherokee than ELB with the current nocks. Pulling about 70lbs at 27", sweet shooter. It's a trilam, I did not glue it up. Bamboo backed lemonwood with a purpleheart strip between them.

I'm hooked on the long longbows and plan on making a few more. May have just found some yew, lemonwood is hard to find and expensive......wow, 20 bucks a board ft. I can get yew for 100 bucks a stave, will def. try the trading route first.

If not, glueing up may be the way to go. If so, CANID........I will be asking questions as you look like you're doing it without any major power tools. The gents on the archery boards all have fancy forms, table saws, band saws, sanders and such.

I have a little block plane, draw knife and a file that I would not trade for anything.

[hunter63]

Bummer about the broken bow.
Made a knife handle out of a piece of cherry wood, actually had my blood in it, (belt sanders will sand your hand, fast).

First throw at the hawk log hit handle first and busted it all to pieces.
Later that nite, sacrificed the remains to the fire gods.
I think everyone needs that every once in a while to remind them that success doesn't come easy.
Think the old timers called it a "comeuppance"?

Hang in there, very nice work.

[canid]

handle glued on and trimmed down. now some antler scrap tip overlays:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0121.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0119.jpg

i plan to add the cherry soon. i tried earlier, and tried to bend it with only the heat gun. it did not hold up. next time, i steam it.

[canid]

ground tips down and cut some nocks:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0123.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0124.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0125.jpg

here's a profile view:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0128.jpg

and a front view:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0129.jpg

i'm not sure the cherry lam for the belly will be necessary at this point. it's pretty stiff and snappy.

[Rick]

Judging from the last bow, the word snappy is probably not one you want to use. Just sayin......

Very nice job, as usual.

[crashdive123]

Very nice work as always. I like the way the bamboo looks on it.

[smittysurvival]

Do you mean fiberglass resin and mat when you refer to glass? By the way looks really nice I am wanting to try my hand at bow making when I am finished watchin' and learnin'.

ive been trying to make a bow too man. aint been working to well. i learned real quick what woods not to use and not to use wood with limbs. ive been using saplings because they are easier to work and im limited to a small knife. wish i had a draw knife or something. im gonna make a new thread on this so yall can help me out. im not much of a handy man :smash:. but it looks real nice. are you making your own arrows too?

[FVR]

Her is the one I just finished.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/MVC-113S.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/FrankV/MVC-114S.jpg

It was a glued up blank that I found on the net and traded a 50lb Bear Grizzly for it. As you can see, it is a beautiful blank. Lemonwood with purpleheart backed with bamboo. It is 72" long, pulling 70lbs at 27" and has sparked my interest in English longbows.

I am currently dealing for some 76" yew staves. Chaching!

Finishing up 6 arrows for it. They shoot great..........first four shots with new arrows from 20 yards....ALL IN THE KILL!

I'm jamming.

[canid]

yes, i make most of my own arrows. they're just too expensive store bought.

frank: that looks nice.

[smittysurvival]

what kind of feathers do you use. goose or store bought? what kind of wood? and how do you make your tips?

[crashdive123]

Nice work Frank.

[canid]

i use all kinds of woods.

my favorite to tell the truth, is bamboo. particularly, when i see small diameter bamboo garden stakes on sale, i try to grab them up.

that aside, i've used rose, wild and domestic, coyote brush, california bay, dogwood and just about any that i can find with woody stems, with 26-32" sections branch free, or without major branches.

the only skill to learn here is how to measure stiffness, how to dry/season if needed and how to straighten with heat.

for feathers, i use the flight and tail feathers of any medium to large bird i can get my hands on, but i mostly work with turkey and goose primaries.

[smittysurvival]

ive never thought of turkey. but ill remember that. and do you use arrowheads or just fireharden your wood?

[FVR]

Thanks for all the pos. comments.


The arrows I just made had commercial black feathers that I got in a trade somewhere. Usually I use real turkey feathers. about 5 years ago, a turkey hunter who has since passed away, gave me 5 sets of turkey wings.

I had them stripped in trade and now have a lifetime supply of both right wing and left wing fletchings.

I don't use primaries..........there just are not enough of them. As far as goose, I will use them if I can't get turkey.


My arrow shafts, these I purchased from Ted at Raptor archery. I usually don't buy shafts, I either make them or trade for them. But I wanted a specific birch shaft, not laminated birch, but rather solid birch. They are hard to find and Ted went in his rafters somewhere and came up with some just like I order 6 years ago. He even pulled out the sales reciept and I got his last 2 1/2 doz. Lucky me.

My ELB shoots my candy canes perfectly.

[smittysurvival]

ive always thought goose was much more high quality then turkey and how do you do your tips?

P.S. is your sig from jerimiah johnson? love that movie

[FVR]

Is there any other movie? LOL. I think I will prob. be watching it tonight after everyone goes to bed. Got the kids a new 40" flatscreen for their Wii.......Jerimiah Johnson on the big screen.

Goose is a bit more waterproof, I'll take either honestly. Again, I don't use the primaries just seconds.

As far as arrow tips? I use the glue ons. I use to drill out the end of the arrow and insert a nail head, drill a hole through and glue. Looked cool.

I do make self nocked arrows. My hunting arrows are all selfnocked and wrapped with sinew.


If you ever get a chance, read "Crow Killer" the real story of Jerimiah Johnson. I read it every fall to get me in the mood.

LOL....read it this year and have not gotten in the mood for hunting yet. Only 2 days left for deer.

[smittysurvival]

it sure is a bummer. aint gotten me a nice buck yet. i wish i could watch it. might pick it up on netflix sometime. big screen 8)... well anyway ive got a friend who hunts goose and i can get some from him. maybe a turkey when its in season.

ive heard you could just use coffee cans for small game. cut a pint out of the bottom and cut a thing in the arrow for it. i can see the point. i cut myself on cans all the time. specialy when im in the mood for some cornbeefhash

[canid]

turkey and goose flight feathers both make excellent fletchings. there is no good reason to compare them.

i've also used other materials, such as fur.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/arrows/IMG_0583.jpg

i make all kind of tips, from self points and hardwood point inserts on target arrows, to stone points and lately, some steel broadheads.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/arrows/arrow_point.gif

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/arrows/first3broadheads.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/arrows/boo_obsidian_goose_point.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/arrows/IMG_0582.jpg

there's really no shortage of ways to do things.

[FVR]

Canid,

You're on Paleoplanet aren't you?

I have not tried deer hair, but i'm going to try. I have not make any forged trade points, have cut a few out of sawblades. They worked okay.

[canid]

i'm on there a bit. i don't post too much.

the steel points i've been making are bench ground and hardened. they're pretty gnarly. i managed to put one through a fence board while playing around last week.

the fur fletching was elk fur, but i bet a fold over of tied on loose hair would be just as effective.

[FVR]

I use to post more.

I go to Paloe when I start drifting in other directions. Tom always brings me back.

Now I do post more on Primitive Archer. I don't get the mag. but the website is great. I will enter my bows every now and then. Came in second a few times. Kinda makes ya feel good.

I won't enter the ELB in the bow of the month. I feel like I cheated by trading for a blank that was already glued up.

[smittysurvival]

wow. never even thought of deer hair. i suppose it would stabilize the arrow like it is supposed to but would put as much spin as feathers.nice little hook on the wooden one. the steels look pretty vicious too

[canid]

spin isn't necessary, it just helps accuracy.

the barbed self point was on the fur fletched shaft. it would make a nice fish arrow.

[smittysurvival]

ive heard that it helps to put something to float the arrow.ive knever known what the mean. i understand the logic though. keep the fish in reach and you can get to the arrow if you miss. accuracy is everything when your shooting at that deer from 40 yards

[canid]

i don't know many people who bowhunt from 40 yards.

elk is probably the only situation i can think of that would require such long shooting, at least in north america.

[smittysurvival]

you knever know. could be your only chance of food

[canid]

i think i'm too accustomed to coming within 10-15 yards of deer even by accident.

personally, i wouldn't shoot at large game from over 15, but i know my own shooting abilities. they aren't the best.

[FVR]

I've killed a hog out to 30 yards, but I was in a tree shooting down. That was a bit far for me. It was a good shot, hog died 20 yards away.

As far as 40 yard deer shots, all but one rifle killed deer I've shot has been within 15 yards. Usually we are talking feet rather than yards.

Would I take a 40 yard shot? I have tried it and found that even if you are shooting a 75lb modern recurve, 40 yards is just to far on a deer. Now on an elk, you bet ya.......but I'd be dialed in for elk.

Now, I've taken 50yd shots at 3D elk, deer, and rams and all kill shots. But if I wounded it, all I had to do is pull the arrow. Real life is a bit diff.

[canid]

started tiller earlier:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0131.jpg

[FVR]

That's nice.

[smittysurvival]

and when does this one break?

[canid]

god willing, it doesn't.

it's not tillered to draw yet. i'm currently correcting some limb twist.

i didn't do much with it today.

[smittysurvival]

ive seen this alot. what are you guys doing with that board drawing back your bows?

[FVR]

It's called a tillering stick.

Stick the bow at the top in the middle.

Pull string to first notch, look at limb tiller. If ya like it then go to the second notch. If you don't like it, make pencil marks and take off wood.

Continue till you get to your draw length.

[smittysurvival]

oh thatts pretty cool. so do you make your own or is it a store bought thing?

[canid]

i make my own.

i'd like to set up a tillering tree built into the wall of my shop, with a pulley and a scale, but i mostly use that one.

it's too short [can only use it to 23"], and so i usually tiller by eye once everything seems to be bending well through most of the draw. i just used a 1x2" hardwood scrap, made a cutout for the bow's handle to rest on and measured off lines every inch down the front side of it. i then cut little notches out from these with a bandsaw and rounded the edges off with sandpaper [so not to fray the tillering string].

i plan to make a longer one soon, so i'll post some pictures if you like.

[smittysurvival]

very much thank you

[canid]

you know; most of the time i live, i learn, and as long as i'm always moving forward i'm happy with where i'm at.

but, every once in a while, i hate my skill/experience level.

i thought i had this one down, but after tillering out the limb twis, i'm looking like at least 10lb underweight. it has to be the walnut lam, because it was parallel when i started, and now that it's bending more evenly, the right side of the bottom and left side of the top limbs are way thinner.

i may have to sand the belly fat again and glue on that cherry after all.

[smittysurvival]

im not good at this but im starting to maek out these conversations. and that sucks. but you never know. this could turn out to be the best bow ever

[canid]

i can already tell it's got great shooting properties, beneath that little excess wood remaining. now let's just see if i can get that excess off without taking anything vital with it.

i don't know whether i want to add that cherry lam so late in the game. it'd be a lot more work.

maybe i should grind out another 'boo backing and start a new one. if i go that route, i can keep this current one for now.

i like the way it's tuning out, but in the end i need to be able to hand david a bow to suit his needs.

[smittysurvival]

whos david?

[canid]

he's the friend i'm building this bow for.

[smittysurvival]

im sure he will love it. i know a friend who tried to make me a bow. he came to school with a lash mark on his face the neext day. rushed through it and the string came back to "bite" him

[smittysurvival]

it doesnt seem like you guys cut your own wood. . . do you guys buy it or what?

[FVR]

Both.

I cut my own hickory and elm.

I trade for osage, hickory, lemonwood (if I can find it). Trying to find yew right now.

When I cut my own, first thing is I take off the bark, split it and seal the ends. Then let dry for a year or two.

I also purchase board wood from hardwood lumber stores. Mostly hickory, have used maple and black walnut, pref. hickory.

Home Depot has red oak, I will sometimes thumb through the boards looking for the perfect board, have yet to find one. You don't have to be so picky if you want to back it with boo or hickory.

[canid]

also both, though i mostly re-saw my own wood for composite/laminate bows.

[smittysurvival]

what is "boo"? and i can just use a board to make a bow?

[canid]

you can certainly use board lumber to make a bow. a lot of the bows i make are simple board bows.

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/new%20bow/Finished.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/other%20bows/HPIM2301.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/other%20bows/HPIM2297.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/other%20bows/IMG_0379.jpg

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/IMG_0113.jpg

if you make a board bow, board selection is pretty important.

[canid]

btw: 'boo is bamboo.

[smittysurvival]

so what kind of wood do i use and not use?

[canid]

the options are pretty wide.

i use a lot of white ash. i also use cherry, maple, black walnut, hickory/pecan when i can find it, red oak, etc.

different woods have different personalities, and different applications.

[smittysurvival]

so not the normal cedar?

[canid]

i've seen cedar used [incense cedars, and eastern redcedar after a quick google search], though i imagine it needs backing every time.

[smittysurvival]

im sure we have gone over this before but what can i back it with.

[canid]

fiberglass cloth, burlap, sinew, silk, linen, bamboo, hickory, etc.

if you make a sapling bow there is no need to back it. if you make a board bow from an appropriate wood and well selected board there is no need to back it. with that said, most bows can benefit from the added security of a backing, but some backings can cause excessive compression of a bow's limbs, and longer limbs can help with that.

there are literally thousands of ways to go about making a bow, and several ways that are well suited to a beginner. a sapling bow is a good idea, and a board bow of ash or red oak are pretty good as well.

feeling about bows the way that i do, i recommend you start some place simple, but eventually try all of them :D

[smittysurvival]

i plan on it.

[smittysurvival]

im going to try to make a board bow with som cerry or walnut or something. my budget is kinda low and thess planks are selling for 30 bucks for a 2"x4"x6'. i need to know what kinds to buy, what size to buy, and what too lok for. (granin, characer, etc.)

[canid]

you want more like 1x2 board.

George Tsoukalas (http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/boards.html) website has some great instructional material. it also has a primer on selecting appropriate boards. he's been building board bows a lot longer than i have, and if i needed board bow advice, he's the one i would go to.

[FVR]

Use hickory. Hickory rings can be violated and the grain can run off the sides a bit and you can still get a good bow. With black walnut, cherry, and oaks these mistakes can ruin the bow.

So ou make it out of hickory and then back it..............awsome bow.

[canid]

hickory is definitely one of the safest board bow woods but i would add that i've had few problems with ash.

[smittysurvival]

so would a place like menards have hickory?

[Rick]

I don't think I've ever seen hickory at Menards, Lowes or Home Depot. They have some small hardwoods but I don't recall anything long enough and with enough diameter to make a bow out of. If you want kiln dried wood you might see if you have a Rocklers in your area. They will have all types of hardwoods and most exotics.

[smittysurvival]

i dont have one. i would love to get my hands on and osage orange sapling. with no knots and already dryed. that would probably be pretty expensive and i would have to have it shipped. i hear that great would for a sapling bow

[canid]

for board lumber, i usually go to a local hardwood specialty supply.

lowes, home despot, etc usually carry red oak, and pretty cheap, so that's a start.

[smittysurvival]

ive been thinking and decided that i am gonna make the board bow second. sapling bow first. just the pride in being able to sa thay i went out and got my own wood and make a bow from scratch

[canid]

ok; David reminded me that i'm about a year behind on his birthday gift, so i finally went back to work on it:

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0323.jpg
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0324.jpg
http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt106/canid/Davids%20bow%20-%20BBWC/IMG_0325.jpg

He mentioned that he's been bragging about it to friends for so long that they think he's making it up.

Details and measurements to come after some epoxy is fully cured.

[crashdive123]

Looks like it'll be worth the wait.

[Rick]

Dang man, that's a pretty sweet rig.

[canid]

If i haven't mentioned it;

the bow is 62" nock to nock.

the limbs taper in width from 1 7/16ths" at the fade, to 1 3/8" at midlimb down to 1/2" at the tips.

belly lam tapers in thickness from 3/8" just after the fades to 1/4" near the tips.

the 'boo backing is very thin, except towards the tips.

it draws 34lb at 20" and it's starting to make some audible complaints past that. it was tillered to 24" before i left it sitting for months in the work shop, so there is some concern, but then it might either be the bindings/epoxy making noise [no major concern] or the increase of belly compression and back tension between the bound areas [not so good].

because i am once again concerned about lamination failure, i'll hold off on draw pictures til i hand it to david. he should at least enjoy the experience of drawing it before it kerplodes [knock wood].

[yellowcab]

дога (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1708)154.8 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/752)даль (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/135)This (http://eyesvisions.com)Герб (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1631228)Fuji (http://filmzones.ru/t/1612487)пе�н (http://gadwall.ru/t/1779295)реце (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1491900)Кузн (http://gageboard.ru/t/1578106)Edga (http://gagrule.ru/t/1358977)Decc (http://gallduct.ru/t/1655745)�ча� (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1669167)Wind (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1688830)Symp (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1705650)Bami (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1715483)
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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Hans (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/792127)Bede (http://hangonpart.ru/t/833190)Забе (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/566159)Amar (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566526)Лопа (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567672)Wild (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/629899)чита (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/758282)Madn (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/623924)VIII (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/673375)и�ку (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/840748)Чуба (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/655316)Cher (http://headregulator.ru/t/1008841)Файн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1376007)fant (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/654909)Pali (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1187786)
Niki (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1181963)мело (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/605819)wwwr (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/608054)Ярму (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/672301)Walt (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/636325)Mila (http://jobstress.ru/t/631002)Perc (http://jogformation.ru/t/672349)Vogu (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1142383)Push (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147269)Марц (http://journallubricator.ru/t/921183)Jose (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/941496)GINA (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1179839)Форм (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181316)Коре (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1044875)Тарх (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1044976)
�хем (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/834977)Naso (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611425)Pete (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182570)Modo (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1026519)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608146)3210 (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610474)Silv (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180374)Nora (http://kickplate.ru/t/781873)Прот (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1002590)Бату (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/673984)Anne (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/775531)побе (http://kinozones.ru/film/9139)Соде (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/672390)Козе (http://kneejoint.ru/t/677594)Lanc (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1073713)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/609123)Linu (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/676308)обер (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/781017)MORG (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193899)изда (http://laborracket.ru/t/882078)�овр (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1246473)Anur (http://labourleasing.ru/t/918423)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190074)Zone (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188316)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1187517)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186308)gran (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1183790)Пуки (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/857834)Соде (http://laggingload.ru/t/1048495)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191361)
впер (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/976919)Jewe (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1059171)чита (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1057530)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184516)Fran (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1050033)Турч (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1001704)МГор (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1047400)чи�т (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184204)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186405)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1184711)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190533)загр (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1782461)хоро (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1708168)Flas (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1043)круг (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/599183)

[yellowcab]

Kron (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030622)MABE (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451921)�вет (http://layabout.ru/shop/600806)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1327036)одеж (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/459853)Hous (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794387)Glam (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026470)Morg (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/446849)2301 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/789781)Pola (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/670754)Cara (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/461456)Крав (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788785)SQui (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1026072)SUBA (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613583)Coyo (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175678)
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Ñ�ерт (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032496)Cart (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570169)Adva (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571803)Коми (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150662)Tamt (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1252961)четв (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/244073)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583712)квал (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585018)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689222)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690137)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/842509)Ð�бчу (http://papercoating.ru/shop/681890)чита (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1047695)Герм (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1173946)Пушк (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1176485)
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Jeff (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/518497)боль (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879350)Швец (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/886219)Joha (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1653787)Свет (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1659858)дете (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1667794)Фоми (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689635)Тара (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1696092)КиÑ�е (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773411)Егор (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1776818)Матв (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822549)мале (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1823549)Заре (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1855893)Manf (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881557)Ð*айд (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918341)
Шело (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1929981)News (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950129)Ð*уби (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1957980)Jewe (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1969196)Крюч (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1462022)Вита (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1496026)Rita (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1556102)Fion (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1629060)репе (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1678460)Стог (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1694835)Flas (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1043)Flas (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1043)Flas (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1043)Соде (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487288)Tolo (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1760409)
Милк (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1772700)Barb (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1775968)Kate (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491451)Grea (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504531)Гущи (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855099)Mich (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901694)Шкл� (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1957664)Гарб (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/863805)Щаве (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/921349)Rein (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/985564)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Neil (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/986094)Rein (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/487920)