How Stupid Do They Really Think We Are?

[Airbus340]

This has probably been covered to death, but seeing as all the 911 stuff will be coming up again in a week or so, as an aviator I still have to absolutely laugh at the fact that they want us to believe that aviation fuel Jet A and A1
which has a maximum burn temperature of 570 F and yet it was supposed to have melted steel girders that have a start melting point of 1370 F they have got to be kidding me. Additionally never in the history of world architecture has a steel building collapsed due to fire or from an aircraft impact. I.E. B25 Bomber hit the 78th floor of the Empire State Bldg. so lets evaluate the facts:

B25 Mitchell bomber 4 Engines
Length: 52 ft 11 in (16.1 m)
Wingspan: 67 ft 6 in (20.6 m)
Height: 17 ft 7 in (4.8 m)
Wing area: 610 sq ft (57 m²)
Empty weight: 21,120 lb (9,580 kg)
Loaded weight: 33,510 lb (15,200 kg)
Maximum speed: 275 mph (239 kn, 442 km/h)
Cruise speed: 230 mph (200 kn, 370 km/h)

Boeing 757 Commercial Jetliner
Length 47.32 m (155 ft 3 in) 54.47 m (178 ft 7 in)
Wingspan 38.05 m (124 ft 10 in)
Tail height 13.56 m (44 ft 6 in)
MTOW 272,500 lb
Cruise speed Mach 0.80 (530 mph, 458 knots, 850 km/h at cruise altitude, i.e. 35,000 ft or 10.66 km)
OK if you look at these numbers the 757 is roughly x2 the size of the B25 and has 2 less engines, which are the heaviest parts of the aircraft. So if an Aircraft that is twice as big and going about x2 as fast smashes into a bldg
the damage will not be much greater, seeing as the building being a solid object to a large degree will reduce the Airspeed to zero very quickly, seeing as it is primarily made of aircraft aluminum and alloys.Now we know that the B25 collision in 1945 barely damaged the overall building structure at all and definitely did not cause it to collapse. Now we are led to believe that not 1 not 2 but 3 buildings collapsed into their own footprint perfectly and 1 of them wasn't even affected by aircraft collision and had only moderate damage from fire and falling debris. Yet it too fell into its own footprint. 3 Modern skyscrapers all did what no other building had done in the history of man, including buildings:

1988 May 6, 1988 - Smoke rising hundreds of feet above the building obscured the view from helicopters that braved fire-generated winds to rescue eight persons from ... temperatures estimated at more than 2000 degrees, as the worst high rise fire in Los Angeles' history in terms of damage and severity. ...
From … WORST HIGHRISE BLAZE IN CITY'S HISTORY HURTS 40 -- BUILDING … NO COLLAPSE!One Meridian Plaza is a 38-floor skyscraper in Philadelphia that suffered a severe fire on February 23, 1991. The fire started on the 22nd floor and raged for 18 hours, gutting eight floors and causing an estimated $100 million in direct property loss. 1 2 3 It was later described by Philadelphia officials as "the most significant fire in this century".

The fire caused window breakage, cracking of granite, and failures of spandrel panel connections. 4 Despite the severity and duration of the fire, as evidenced by the damage the building sustained, no part of the building collapsed
And yet a building that burned for less than 2 hrs collapsed and a building completely engulfed for 18 hrs didn't? hmmmmmm and finally at 520pm A bldg not even collided with collapses too. 3 Bldgs in 1 12 hr period, all into their own footprint. Now lets just say JA-1 Gets hot enough to melt commercial steel (It doesn't) but lets say it did. Why did Building 7 collapse out of sympathy for its 2 big brother's?

And I saw the pictures of the pentagon, if a 757 hit that bldg, I will give away every paycheck I make from this day forward to Osama Bin Laden, because no way in hell did a 737 even hit that bldg let alone a 757. The wingspan on a 757 is 124 ft wide and 2 huge jet engines PW 2037 or 2040's and they want us to believe these 2 engines almost as big as Sarge's Bus each just evaporated? And the hole in the pentagon was 16 ft wide? What happened to the other 108 ft of aircraft width and 155 ft length. When I stand next to the tire of a 57 and I am 6'0 tall it comes up to about to my waist. These things are enormous and they expect us to believe it made a 16ft hole? Then the one govt rep says quote " it was absolutely 100% an aircraft 757 I held the tail section in my hand hmmmmm Wow! that is one majorly strong guy cause that tail section is as big as most people's houses.
All I'm saying from a pilot's point of view COMPLETE AND TOTAL UTTER BULL****! Absolutely not possible, no way no how. I have seen many many aviation accidents and they want us to believe that an aircraft as big as a 757 turned to liquid and vanished, yet they say the account for all 60 bodies hmmm if its liquid then how come the bodies are intact enough to identify 60 of them all 60 of them crew and passengers. Sorry to say people but the Capt and F/O in an accident like this would be vaporized literally. Many of their so called facts are a joke, they show 1 rim of a tire so what happened to the other 9 and they say they held the tail section but never produce it. In all the wreckage not 1 map not 1 seat card not 1 magazine was found not a single 1.Personally, I say believe what you like.

Rob L

[crashdive123]

To be quite frank and honest - right now the words that I would have in response to your post are not appropriate for this forum.

[Pal334]

Sighing,,, not again

[Rick]

Curious...how do you dismiss the security camera footage of the aircraft actually hitting the Pentagon and camera footage of the two hitting the towers? And you can not compare the Towers with the Empire State Building. The construction of the buildings was completely different.

Hey, Pal, do you have the time? My watch seems to be stuck on old theories.:innocent:

[nell67]

You obvously did not watch the news that day...(it was ALL that was on the tube that day!) We who did, SAW the planes hitting these buildings,Saw the ensuing fires,and watched as the buildings fell,I taped the news from that day,and unless YOU were the reason that the buildings fell (into their own footprint) then I think you have NO idea what you are talking about...just sayin'

[Pal334]

Curious...how do you dismiss the security camera footage of the aircraft actually hitting the Pentagon and camera footage of the two hitting the towers? And you can not compare the Towers with the Empire State Building. The construction of the buildings was completely different.

Hey, Pal, do you have the time? My watch seems to be stuck on old theories.:innocent:

It is like dejeavu all over again :). I would be more interested in the conspiracy theories if these people that are looking over my shoulder would go away :innocent:

[crashdive123]

Gotta go kill a few things. When I get done, maybe the words that come out of my keyboard will be forum appropriate. It truely is sad though that somebody that flies and holds the lives of their customers in their hands is so......

I'll be back later.

[Sarge47]

I think it was those durn "Gremlins" again! Hey, how about this for a headline: "Hundreds of N.Y. Fireman fake own deaths to promate huge hoax!" :innocent:

[Pal334]

"Additionally never in the history of world architecture has a steel building collapsed due to fire or from an aircraft impact. I.E. B25 Bomber hit the 78th floor of the Empire State Bldg. so lets evaluate the facts:"

It would appear that facts have nothing to do with your conclusions. I could bore you with the reasons why the buildings are different, or that the aircraft involved where different, the speeds involved where different and on board fuel was different. But I won't, I would encourage you to at least google things to get a little factual background before you waste your time typing this drivel.

[Rick]

In case you haven't guessed, we do get testy from time to time. If it's a good post, we'll tell you. If it's a bad post, we tell you that, too.

[mccaw69]

:stupid::eek: Oh my......... please lets not do this,I'm not even gonna go there.Did he get lost,or did he actually mean to post that #@?! on here.

[Sourdough]

I say believe what you like.Rob L

Here is what I believe........I believe you have discredited yourself, forever in my book. I have never put any member on ignore, but that is where you are going, on my ignore list. You are a stupid fool.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My answer to this post would be better worded in a vacant corner lot and we could use the whole lot if needed!

[SARKY]

Having been a crash/recovery sites including one from my own squadron, planes get compressed and shredded! The flightstation of the P-3 that crashed, from the 288 bulkhead forward was about the size of a large footlocker. parts of the plane were still being found years later.
Your comparasion of the 2 aircraft/building crashes is so off base as to be laughable.
1: a smaller plane crashes into a building made of reenforced stone and mortar. The smaller plane wasn't nosed over in a full power dive, it was cruising, looking for a break in the clouds
2: A much larger plane crashes into a building that is(at least the exterior) nothing but hung glass. In the video when the plane hits the tower, debris exits the opposite side of the building. This means that parts of that plane had to go around, or through the center collum support structure of the building (wish would have damaged it)
Now about the pentagon, You talk about the engines on the plane being soooo large, except that that volume is a large amout of air and most of those engine parts are aluminum. Ever see what a duck does to one of these engines???
Engine eats duck..... then engine eats itself!
Hell I've had an EDC hicup and spit a small bolt into the intake which destroyed the compressor section, and trashed the combustion section and turbine section. We had what amounted to hand fulls of aluminum slivers and chips that used to be precision rotator and stator blades.

[Airbus340]

Woah didn't want to start a ****storm a simple I don't agree would suffice. and yes I'm not a kook 2 757 aircraft did hit the tower, I too watched it live that morning as I just happened to be watching morning news.As all of you are so fond in saying "just saying" So chill, none needs to start a 3rd front here. I have allot of other info as well based strictly based on aviation. But apparently you folks have your own opinions, fine. Just because your right doesn't make me wrong. We don't need to hold a lynching party. Ok , I just asked a question and made some comments. now I got your points well leave this die. But to seal this deal a hell of allot more aviators out there than you could possibly realize, do raise an eyebrow to this one. Me I'm not convince 100% either way, just saying.
Post dead!:drunk:
Rob L

[Ken]

*Deep Breath* Okay. This is the fourth time I've opened this thread, and I feel I can respond now without getting banned. Believe me, this is nothing like the post I would have written originally.

I have a few observations and comments.

1. Exactly what do you suggest actually happened to the four planes?

2. How do you account for the scores - if not hundreds - of videos of the actual events taking place? And the tens of thousands of eye-witnesses?

3. How about those cell phone calls from the passengers?

4. Did it ever cross your mind that the jet fuel simply ignited materials that burned much hotter than 570° F?

5. Do you honestly believe that the United States government was actually behind this?????

6. Do you honestly believe that a conspiracy of such magnitude could ever be kept secret?

7. When you asked, "How Stupid Do They Really Think We Are?" you were talking about the conspiracy theorists, right?

My brother worked in Washington, D.C., in a building we call the Pentagon. He was reassigned to a command in South Korea in June of 2001. His Pentagon office was less than 150' away from "Pentagon Ground Zero." He had many many friends who were still working there on September 11, 2001. Today, he has a plaque on the wall of his office that lists the names of 27 of those friends who were killed on September 11, 2001. These were people he knew personally. Most of them had worked for him. He had met many of their wives, husbands, and kids. I'll be sure to share your thoughts with him.

[nell67]

Woah didn't want to start a ****storm a simple I don't agree would suffice. and yes I'm not a kook 2 757 aircraft did hit the tower, I too watched it live that morning as I just happened to be watching morning news.As all of you are so fond in saying "just saying" So chill, none needs to start a 3rd front here. I have allot of other info as well based strictly based on aviation. But apparently you folks have your own opinions, fine. Just because your right doesn't make me wrong. We don't need to hold a lynching party. Ok , I just asked a question and made some comments. now I got your points well leave this die. But to seal this deal a hell of allot more aviators out there than you could possibly realize, do raise an eyebrow to this one. Me I'm not convince 100% either way, just saying.
Post dead!:drunk:
Rob L
Oh,I think you knew EXACTLY what you were doing when you posted this thread,smooth move Ex-lax...just sayin'

[Sourdough]

Oh,I think you knew EXACTLY what you were doing when you posted this thread,smooth move Ex-lax...just sayin'

I think the Ex-Lax failed to stimulate a full evacuation, and he is still full of Brown Stinky stuff, also known as SH!T.

[Airbus340]

OK I'M GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME VERY CLEARLY!!
I am not saying nothing happened,QUITE THE CONTRARY. MANY HORRIFIC EVENTS HAPPENED! as you have pointed out Ken, AND I AM NOT DEBATING!! <<see I agree I am merely raising eyebrows at certain things that happened certain ways. Geez people, read my words!!
Smooth move ex lax , thats the best you can come up with Nell, what are you 95? Never mind. The point is this point is moot OK. done, over, finito. I was merely saying somethings didn't add up. What things those are really don't matter. You have your ideas and thoughts as do I. I know allot of FAA investigators and NTSB as well and I'm pretty sure none of you are. so lets just move on to figure 4s shall we.I'll take 2 sugar in my coffee please Nell :)

Rob L


Oh,I think you knew EXACTLY what you were doing when you posted this thread,smooth move Ex-lax...just sayin'

[nell67]

I think the Ex-Lax failed to stimulate a full evacuation, and he is still full of Brown Stinky stuff, also known as SH!T.

I think you're right hope!:clap::winkiss:

[nell67]

OK IM GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME VERY CLEARLY!!
I am not saying nothing happened, I am merely raising eyebrows at certain things that happebned certain ways. Geez people, read my words!!
Smooth move exlax , thats the best you can come up with Nell, what are you 95? Never mind. The point is this point is moot ok. done, over, finito. I was merely saying somethings didn't add up. What things those are really don't matter. You have your ideas and thoughts as do I. I know alot of FAA investigators and NTSB as well and I'm pretty sure none of you are. so lets just move on to figure 4s shall we.I'll take 2 sugar in my coffee please Nell :)

Rob L

What you'll get is the entire pot thrown squarely in your face,no sugar added.

Not 95 yet,but I am working on it..

[2dumb2kwit]

OK...I've read the whole thread, and I just have one thing to say.

Pfftt.........and y'all call me dumb!:sneaky2:

[Airbus340]

Thank you decaffeinated please, caffeine makes me edgy ;) feel free to hit your button anytime. And please in the future read the post thoroughly before responding, it may improve your odds of being politer :)

Rob L


What you'll get is the entire pot thrown squarely in your face,no sugar added.

Not 95 yet,but I am working on it..

[nell67]

Thank you decaffeinated please, caffeine makes me edgy ;) feel free to hit your button anytime. And please in the future read the post thoroughly before responding, it may improve your odds of being politer :)

Rob L
Ok,how about a pot of boiling spit then,never in a thousand years would I serve the likes of you,and as for being polite,I am polite to those who deserve it......

[Sourdough]

so lets just move on to figure 4s shall we.I'll take 2 sugar in my coffee please Nell :)Rob L

Sorry Dude, You just touched the "THIRD RAIL" Your fried, toast, no one messes with Nell. You be Bye-Bye.

[2dumb2kwit]

Hey Ken, (or anyone else)....help me understand something.
How come I'm the resident dummy, but I have a better understanding of thermal dynamics and physics, than the big shot airline pilot?:blushing:

[Sourdough]

Would someone please LOCK this thread, and throw it in the toilet......

[Ken]

OK...I've read the whole thread, and I just have one thing to say.

Pfftt.........and y'all call me dumb!:sneaky2:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/too-many-dumb.jpg

[Ken]

Hey Ken, (or anyone else)....help me understand something.
How come I'm the resident dummy, but I have a better understanding of thermal dynamics and physics, than the big shot airline pilot?:blushing:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUZ_fM-TQKQ/ShY3tjO8m7I/AAAAAAAANrI/C2SUzPVZizY/s400/DumbAndDumberer.jpg

[Pal334]

OK I'M GOING TO SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME VERY CLEARLY!!
I am not saying nothing happened,QUITE THE CONTRARY. MANY HORRIFIC EVENTS HAPPENED! as you have pointed out Ken, AND I AM NOT DEBATING!! <<see I agree I am merely raising eyebrows at certain things that happened certain ways. Geez people, read my words!!
Smooth move ex lax , thats the best you can come up with Nell, what are you 95? Never mind. The point is this point is moot OK. done, over, finito. I was merely saying somethings didn't add up. What things those are really don't matter. You have your ideas and thoughts as do I. I know allot of FAA investigators and NTSB as well and I'm pretty sure none of you are. so lets just move on to figure 4s shall we.I'll take 2 sugar in my coffee please Nell :)

Rob L

I think Hope made a very accurate observation.

And just to help you know your audience a little better, I did in fact participate in the investigations of the events of 9/11, both as a FED and military. My observations and comments are based on reality and first hand experience, yours apparently was garnered over a beer somewhere

[Airbus340]

OK now this is ironic, truly ironic actually bordering on extreme entertainment.
What part of merely raised an eyebrow at things did you people not understand? Nell boiling spit please , sweetheart, listen I may not be a science major :) but even I know spit will evaporate before it reaches boiling point or at least won't be liquefied enough to throw hahaha. Moderators of the forum, I am not in any way trying to disrupt your fine little community, but as the constitution says right to bear arms so shall I exercise my right to defend myself. Against rude, unkind, disrespectful, unwarranted,profane or otherwise comments directed against me for merely, having a pregnant pause about a very significant aviation event, that in turn changed the world on many levels. For anyone and everyone who can read!
I did not say anything about no government conspiracy not 1 time, I merely listed a few facts, alluded to a question I was interested in hearing others thoughts. It is you who decided to create your own ideology about what i was saying. What truly makes this so incredibly funny is, I merely as stated many times raised an eyebrow and wondered about some simple things that didn't quite add up. And the first post I put up was actually mostly copied from somewhere on the net, so i could get an opinion of what you folks thought, nothing more. It truly amazes me at the level of ignorance that can show itself when we read what we want to and not what truly is there. Then we formulate an emotional response based on our manufactured hypothesis and in no way on the point that was clearly printed in front of us.

You use the word sheeple constantly and rights and freedom, yet you deny people who differ from you even slightly those courtesies. I find that incredibly funny. So please do yourselves a favor and the majority of you, who continue on this line of absolute silliness, just click my name on ignore and go back to the world as you have created it. Those of you who are a lot more or a little more open minded, diplomatic, respectfully and just plain decent, please, reread my posts,all of the ones pertaining to me not being a kook and merely doing nothing more than going hmmmmm not making any judgments at all about anything. Thanks, because ya know what, I indeed would extend you that courtesy.

Rob L

[Ken]

I think Hope made a very accurate observation.

And just to help you know your audience a little better, I did in fact participate in the investigations of the events of 9/11, both as a FED and military. My observations and comments are based on reality and first hand experience, yours apparently was garnered over a beer somewhere

I'm sure your first hand experience was only a dream, Pal. :innocent: After all, how can your personal knowledge possibly compete with this?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1027358/91101_crazy_conspiracy_theories.html?cat=9

[doug1980]

WOW!! I have heard this theory a few times. I think ther are just people out there that will take any event and try to make it fit their agenda no matter what. There have been many shows on this matter that explain very precisely how and why the towers did what they did. I'm no expert mind you but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist or a pilot in this case to see that what happened, did happen, and that the only one with an agenda was the terrorists behind it. It was a tragedy and to try and blame it on some hidden government agenda is a slap in the face to all those that died, all those that are mourning and to all those that are fighting because of it. There might be hidden agendas in many things, but to believe our government, however effed up it may be, would do this is just crazy. There may be things about what happened that are unexplained or odd but, umm....duh it was a major effing disaster. Can you explain why a tornado will take three houses in a row then skip the fourth one and take out the fifth? Can you explain that...no you can't. It doesn't need explaining.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

[Airbus340]

Fantastic Pal :clap::clap: thank you for your fine service Sir, apparently if you were involved in such a prestigious position then you have no problem with reading documentation clearly and concisely and arriving at an unbiased conclusion. OK great having that in mind.

I MERELY RAISED AN EYEBROW AT SOME THINGS THAT DID NOT QUITE ADD UP. WHICH MAY BE REFERRING TO SOMETHING AS SMALL AS THE TIE THE PILOT WAS WEARING THAT DAY FOR EXAMPLE! I AM MERELY POINTING OUT SIR! THAT I ONLY HAD SOME QUESTIONS, WHAT THOSE QUESTIONS WERE, NEVER WERE UTTERED EXACTLY. I COPIED AND PASTED SOME POINTS THAT OTHERS MADE, SIMPLY TO GET YOU FOLKS OPINION! I DID NOT 1 TIME SAY THIS WAS MY PERSONAL OPINION, OR I'M A CONSPIRACY WACKO, OR I BELIEVE GREEN MEN DID IT! YOU PEOPLE HERE ASSUMED! ALL OF THAT ON YOUR OWN. SO AS A FORMER INVESTIGATOR, I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN NOW SEE I DID NOT SAY ANY OF THAT. AND EVERY TIME I CLARIFIED IT I GOT STUPID, REDNECK THREATS AND INSULTS!

OK why block letters, so nothing important is missed in my wording.Thank you so much for being the only person here who actually has stated they are an unbiased position and will use your skills to see that in fact, I said nothing of any conclusion, to deserve this level of disrespect, insults, degradation or otherwise.

Rob L


I think Hope made a very accurate observation.

And just to help you know your audience a little better, I did in fact participate in the investigations of the events of 9/11, both as a FED and military. My observations and comments are based on reality and first hand experience, yours apparently was garnered over a beer somewhere

[Sarge47]

but as the constitution says right to bear arms so shall I exercise my right to defend myself. Against rude, unkind, disrespectful, unwarranted,profane or otherwise comments directed against me for merely, having a pregnant pause about a very significant aviation event, that in turn changed the world on many levels. For anyone and everyone who can read!Nice try Rob, but the Constitution is for Americans; your IP address is Calgary, Canada. If it was L.A. I'd of thought you were someone else! Now you've done it, you've attacked the she-Trax. Don't come on here all new like & start throwing your weight around, it ain't a -gonna work. You done riled the Wolf-Pack dude! :cool2:

[2dumb2kwit]

OK now this is ironic, truly ironic actually bordering on extreme entertainment.
What part of merely raised an eyebrow at things did you people not understand? Nell boiling spit please , sweetheart, listen I may not be a science major :) but even I know spit will evaporate before it reaches boiling point or at least won't be liquefied enough to throw hahaha. Moderators of the forum, I am not in any way trying to disrupt your fine little community, but as the constitution says right to bear arms so shall I exercise my right to defend myself. Against rude, unkind, disrespectful, unwarranted,profane or otherwise comments directed against me for merely, having a pregnant pause about a very significant aviation event, that in turn changed the world on many levels. For anyone and everyone who can read!
I did not say anything about no government conspiracy not 1 time, I merely listed a few facts, alluded to a question I was interested in hearing others thoughts. It is you who decided to create your own ideology about what i was saying. What truly makes this so incredibly funny is, I merely as stated many times raised an eyebrow and wondered about some simple things that didn't quite add up. And the first post I put up was actually mostly copied from somewhere on the net, so i could get an opinion of what you folks thought, nothing more. It truly amazes me at the level of ignorance that can show itself when we read what we want to and not what truly is there. Then we formulate an emotional response based on our manufactured hypothesis and in no way on the point that was clearly printed in front of us.

You use the word sheeple constantly and rights and freedom, yet you deny people who differ from you even slightly those courtesies. I find that incredibly funny. So please do yourselves a favor and the majority of you, who continue on this line of absolute silliness, just click my name on ignore and go back to the world as you have created it. Those of you who are a lot more or a little more open minded, diplomatic, respectfully and just plain decent, please, reread my posts,all of the ones pertaining to me not being a kook and merely doing nothing more than going hmmmmm not making any judgments at all about anything. Thanks, because ya know what, I indeed would extend you that courtesy.

Rob L


So what you're saying, is that you copy and pasted some stuff, along with some of your idea's thrown in, to stir up some sh!t. Now that everyone has called you on the dumb sh!t, you've got your panties all in a bunch, and we're the mean ol' dummies?

[Sarge47]

I myself believe that the fall of the buildings & the Pentegon, & the crash of flight 93 along with all of the mountains of evidence was the result of mass hallucinations created by a master race of extra-terrestrial aliens; & I'm sure that Sasquatch was involved somehow! Hey Rob! Don't worry 'ole buddy, I got yer back! :innocent::sneaky2:

[2dumb2kwit]

I GOT STUPID, REDNECK THREATS AND INSULTS!

Rob L

Hey...wait......I missed the redneck threats! Where are they?

[doug1980]

Hey...wait......I missed the redneck threats! Where are they?

I'm a redneck..oh wait what are we talking about. I'm just a dumb redneck with ADD what just happened. :clap:

[Pal334]

I'm sure your first hand experience was only a dream, Pal. :innocent: After all, how can your personal knowledge possibly compete with this?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1027358/91101_crazy_conspiracy_theories.html?cat=9

Mmmm,, perhaps you are right, my little world has always ben so warm and comfortable. And besides, what place does reality realy have in life?

[Ken]

Rob,

Your title for this thread, "How Stupid Do They Really Think We Are?", clearly implies that some sort of conspiracy or cover-up has taken place.

I agree with Hope. This entire thread should be closed, deleted, $hitcanned, expunged, incinerated.............

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-signs103.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-signs042.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Sarge47]

Time to lock it down! :cool2: