View Full Version : shovels
Hey all, Was wondering if anyone has come across any nice pack shovels. I have a coleman that will probably end up in a garage sale after this weekends performance. Its one that unfolds with a threaded collar near the end to lock it in place. Unfortunatley, when using, it quickly loosens up and with cold hands is rather tough to work the lock ring, any recomendations on a nice shovel, lightweight and easy to work with? Thanks
SARKY
08-31-2009, 10:48 PM
I got the cold steel what ever they call it shovel. All I can say is that it is idiot proof and tough as nails. One other thing, it's not very heavy and the side edge can be sharpened to use as an axe
LudwigVan
09-01-2009, 12:56 AM
That would be the Spetznaz shovel.
I too am looking to get a good pack shovel for long treks, and while I know that the USGI e-tool model will get the job done fine, I like the cold steel spetznaz. From what I have heard it is better balanced and more durable than a folding shovel, no moving parts.
Sourdough
09-01-2009, 12:59 AM
Is the Glock Shovel any good.....?
LudwigVan
09-01-2009, 01:06 AM
I have looked at the glock shovel a bit, I like it a lot. It's fairly light and like the pistols, partially plastic but it appeared to be very sturdy. Has a little saw blade in it I think too. I have seen them online for as low as $35, not bad really.
I think Hoosierarcher had one at the Jamboree. I didn't spend any time with it, however. What's your opinion, HA?
finallyME
09-01-2009, 04:33 PM
The USGI etool is tough and heavy. If weight isn't a concern, I recommend it. But, there are a lot of knock-off look a likes that suck nuts.
Pal334
09-01-2009, 04:51 PM
I like the Military "e tool" (not sure if this is the one finallyME mentioned above). It was always reliable for me. And I don't think they are expensive.
Here are pics of a commercial variant to give your the idea
finallyME
09-01-2009, 05:02 PM
I like the Military "e tool" (not sure if this is the one finallyME mentioned above). It was always reliable for me. And I don't think they are expensive.
Here are pics of a commercial variant to give your the idea
Yep, that is the one I recommend. :clap::clap:
Pal334
09-01-2009, 05:06 PM
Yep, that is the one I recommend. :clap::clap:
:clap:Sometimes our Uncle Sugar gets something right:clap:
I have the tri-fold in my truck. I also have the older version, too.
canid
09-01-2009, 07:32 PM
most brands of those i've used are cheap and flimsy.
i've had several surplus bi-fold ones that have held up much better, but i think the next entrenching tool i go with will be a fixed model.
canid
09-01-2009, 07:36 PM
have you considered a fine russkie throwing shovel?
LudwigVan
09-01-2009, 10:16 PM
That's the cold steel spetznaz shovel I was refering too.
canid
09-01-2009, 10:41 PM
ah, missed your post. spetznaz rock.
i always figure any group who use their tools as offensive weapons are likely to know how to pick them.
And just why would I want to throw my shovel? I have a snow shovel I've wanted to throw a time or two.
Actually, the tri-fold I have is pretty hefty. It's a surplus shovel. I'll look later today and see if there is a company name stamped on it.
canid
09-02-2009, 03:23 AM
And just why would I want to throw my shovel?
depends on who you're with at the time.
if you where putting up with somebody like me for instance...
Oooooh. I get it.
Looking up Spetnaz shovel. "Well, look at that. One side can be sharpened." (thinking back) "The jokes on you. My petri dishes are already dried up".) Hmmmmmm.
justinjedlawton
09-02-2009, 07:40 AM
трахать Rass! these boy dont play around there killing with this sucker
http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm
Wounder if ther for real?
To paraphrase an old adage...Never bring a throwing shovel to a gun fight.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-02-2009, 03:01 PM
My daughter talked me into buying her a small fixed handle shovel from lowes as I was buying a new shovel handle for one of my old workhorses. I have been eyeballing it ever since it is light, metal handle and perfect size to pack. Only thing it is dull at the edge. A good sharpening and maybe a heat treat? I think I payed 5 bucks. You could even unscrew the metal handle and just pack the blade, making a handle when you need it.
finallyME
09-02-2009, 03:09 PM
The heat treatment would only be viable if it is a high carbon content steel. If it is 1018, then forget it.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-02-2009, 03:13 PM
I have found that I can harden 1010 sufficient for use as a shovel and 1018 would be no different. So you forget it and I'll remember it....Seriously what do you think your GI shovel is? 1095 well I can promise you it isn't...we are talking about a shovel on this post right? Most pack shovels aren't anywhere near sharp! A good blend of toughness and hardness is what is called for and 1010 is the most common metal used for these scenarios. Most pack shovels are stamped out from mild steel, there is no diffence in the steel yours is made of and the steel on this one. There may be something better from cold steel...but other than that or some other high end shovel they are all the same steel. Please think before you post, I have worked in the steel industry 20 yrs. currently as an engineer. Material considerations are on my desk everyday.
The tri-fold I carry in the truck is made by Ames - 1987. So I know this one is the real deal. Ames has been making entrenching tools for the Army since WWII for sure.
Sourdough
09-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Anybody use a CLAM Shovel for a machete/shovel....????
finallyME
09-02-2009, 05:40 PM
I have found that I can harden 1010 sufficient for use as a shovel and 1018 would be no different. So you forget it and I'll remember it....Seriously what do you think your GI shovel is? 1095 well I can promise you it isn't...we are talking about a shovel on this post right? Most pack shovels aren't anywhere near sharp! A good blend of toughness and hardness is what is called for and 1010 is the most common metal used for these scenarios. Most pack shovels are stamped out from mild steel, there is no diffence in the steel yours is made of and the steel on this one. There may be something better from cold steel...but other than that or some other high end shovel they are all the same steel. Please think before you post, I have worked in the steel industry 20 yrs. currently as an engineer. Material considerations are on my desk everyday.
I'll concede. I don't work in the steel industry, and definitely not 20 years. Most of my material considerations are usually some type of polymer. No, I didn't think that my GI shovel was some high carbon content steel. 1018 is pretty common and easy to manufacture, so that would have been my guess. Again a guess, since I haven't worked in the steel industry for 20 years. Maybe viable was the wrong word to use. My understanding with soft steels (feel free to correct me, I know you will) is that it is unresponsive to heat treatments intended to form martensite, but it can be cold hardened. So, by heat treating a low carbon steel, nothing is gained. That doesn't mean that it was bad before hand. If I took my Etool and put a file on the edge, it held fine and worked. I doubt it was heat treated. But, if you say heat treating a 1018 or 1010 would make a better shovel than not, I believe you. You have the experience. Looks like I learned something new today.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-02-2009, 07:28 PM
No problem Finally, just defending my post. A few here and I as well, have tried heat treating 1010, by the way 1010 through 1100 designations are so close in carbon content it wouldn't make much difference when considering a shovel at least wise after the manufacturing process. A little can be gained by heat treating the edge only IMO. Tell you what i'll do. I'll try it and report the results and maybe we'll both learn something. One guy a mod on here that made a few knives using 1010, did an oil quench and was satisfied it was a good blade. For the shovel I will use just a propane torch to heat the edge and follow it with an oil quench. I also have a forge if I decide I need it. Not sure if you have seen my post on the knife I made where we all discuss steels and heat treatment. MAybe it would interest you...Hey no hard feelings. I do think you'll enjoy the discussion going forward. Thanks CS
Here is the post...
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7067&highlight=leafspring
crashdive123
09-02-2009, 07:41 PM
I guess I'm the mod being discussed. and have been asked to weigh in on the topic. Honestly I do not know enough about the different steel types to offer any valid info. The only thing I was thinking when I read this is - wouldn't heat treating the entire shovel possibly cause it to become too brittle? CS's last post on just treating the edge answers that. Sorry not to be able to offer much on this.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-02-2009, 07:52 PM
Thanks, Crash and I did ask you to weigh in...reason being you have some knives that you did. I haven't actually tried this...it is a professional opinion mostly derived from seeing and testing how the mild steel reacts to a weld. It gets hard enough I don't want to ever have to drill on or near a weld and design around it. Mostly I found this out reworking mis-located holes through welding, grinding, and Finally redrilling. No pun intended...HEHE.. Also through testing welds to failure. It is my observation that a rapid cooled edge will get much harder. Maybe it draws carbon from the entire work peice. Part of the reason for this post is I really want to get to the bottom of this.
crashdive123
09-02-2009, 07:59 PM
I don't see why it won't work. I've done a couple of knife edges that way that perform OK (not great). I think it was Ole WV Coot that posted that using a plasma cutter seems to put a pretty hard edge on the blade.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-02-2009, 08:03 PM
Let's hope "Coot" weighs in... that is exactly the principle I am suggesting...
finallyME
09-03-2009, 09:22 AM
I am trying to remember if you can introduce carbon with the quenching in old oil, as long as your oil has lots of carbon in it. Used motor oil usually does.
By the way, I love your forge. I am trying to build my own, and I really like your dual purpose one. When my grandfather died, I got his anvil (it's a cheap cast iron one, but it is an anvil that I didn't pay for), his hammer, and a bunch of other stuff. I also found a small car tire hub in a field near my home. So far I haven't spent any money. My plan was to weld on four legs and bolt some pipe on the bottom. But, after seeing your forge, I want to go more that route and cement it in a box. I have been collecting metal to practice with (mostly railroad spikes). A grinder is also on my list of stuff to get.:tongue_smilie:
COWBOYSURVIVAL
09-03-2009, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the forge compliment. I mostly used the concrete so I can leave it outside and not have to worry about anyone walking off with it. I will be forging a new knife I am making. You can follow it on this thread...
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8532
Introducing carbon is possible but I am sure it is more complex than my current knowledge.
oldsoldier
09-03-2009, 06:45 PM
Check out www.survivalkitsonline.com the 6 in one survival shovel
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yellowcab
05-03-2026, 04:59 PM
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