View Full Version : Basic Survival
In the wake of a new earthquake in China leaving behind 400,000 homeless, i wanted to approach our survival universe with a kit that has been in use by refugees and homeless alike throughout the world.
endurance
07-10-2009, 02:28 PM
Great post and I hope the beginning of a great thread.
I, too, have been an observer of the refugee, from Ethiopia to New Orleans, and you captured the core of their necessities well, although there's probably variations from continent to continent around the world.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the pot and in a perfect world, a pan, too.
Here's a couple thoughts I'd add:
Machete vs. axe: Maybe I've been exceptionally hard on the two I've owned or maybe I bought inferior stuff, but I've never been nearly as impressed with a machete as I have been with just a good, solid single bit axe. While I preferred a double bit with the forest service because it was easier to always have a sharp side in the field, a single bit has served me better in my personal life because I could use it as a hammer and it was easier to sharpen in the field without the benefit of a vice. I've also seen plenty of refugees with them around the world.
Iodine-While not the preferred method of water purification, nor first aid, the utility for both would warrant a look. This is not a firm endorsement, but rather an item to consider. I'm not about to open the can of worms mentioning potassium permanganate would bring, oops, I just did. Guess it's out there now.
Beans and rice-As long as we're mentioning living like the third world, why don't we mention some of the best long-term storage foods that supply billions of people around the world the cornerstone of their diet. Forget MREs and freeze-dried chicken stew. Pound for pound, you can't beat beans and rice for nutrition. They are two complimentary proteins that provide all the essential amino acids. All you need is a little fat and you have all your macro nutrients covered. Oil might be a good thing to add, for both its cooking utility and for the easy source of fats. Add a bottle of multi-vitamins and you could go for months without adverse health consequences.
Rugged shoes and durable clothing-This is where one has to be careful in their choices. As much as I share the concerns of experienced folks in the back country regarding cotton, my experience has shown that it outlasts every synthetic fabric out there. Wool certainly has its place in colder climates, but with the kind of hard living one might be doing, I doubt a pair of wool pants would last a single month of summer, no less you wouldn't want to be wearing them in the heat anyway.
Excellent post, Remy. Well thought out and well worded. I don't dare add anything to it.
One of the reasons fishing weirs is outlawed in virtually every state is because they are terribly efficient ways of catching large numbers of fish. And they require very little work. Sometimes, if you look closely, you'll find natural weirs along the coast line. Nets, lines, etc. isn't really necessary. Knowing how to build a weir in any body of water will usually reap huge rewards.
Man has come to use sticks in the ground but piled stones can serve the same purpose. Even dirt berms will work.
It's really about comfort for us, isn't it? That and the hypnosis of advertising.
Here's a thread for you. What's the best cooking pot (no references to plants, please).
crashdive123
07-10-2009, 03:39 PM
Very well thought out posts.
crashdive123
07-10-2009, 04:00 PM
I think I read that the WOK was the best all-around pot.
Well.......until you drill holes in the bottom of it.
crashdive123
07-10-2009, 04:32 PM
Sadly, so much of the "advice", like the video that you saw comes from people with absolutely no practical experience. I know that Hope and others comment on this often, and while the internet is good for source material, it cannot replace practical experience. Sadly, to the inexperienced looking to develop a plan they have no way of knowing the the information they are viewing (like the BOB video) is not going to serve them well. The points you made in your original post are spot on. I've traveled a little, and while the touristy places in the Islands were nice, the rest of the population lived with the bare essentials. A pot, hammock, roof, ability to fish. While many had jobs, they were surviving on $500 a year and seemed quite content. All in how you are raised and what you become accustomed to I imagine.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
07-10-2009, 05:11 PM
Great post Remy! I am just sitting here soaking it all up!
Excellent post.
Our basic needs are not that hard to figure out, demystification is in order.
In Brazil we don't have a refugee problem but we do have millions of people that are classified as "economically inactive" they neither produce nor consume. That is a politicians way of saying unemployed and destitute.
Universally they collect exactly the things listed in the original post. They also eat a diet of mainly rice and beans. Mac
Sourdough
07-10-2009, 05:46 PM
Well done Remy.
Ole WV Coot
07-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Excellent post Remy. I do admire how thoroughly it was thought out. I would not attempt to add or subtract. You covered many books in one post. My congratulations on a job well done.
BENESSE
07-10-2009, 08:30 PM
I have felt for a long time that "SURVIVAL" should be a mandatory course
taught in K-12. Can't imagine anything more important.
A 21st century version of peace-time draft (men & women)
needs to be the law--even if it's for only 3 months.
Think of it as a semester.
No exceptions, no deferment!
We've gotten fatter, lazier and more dependent on Uncle Sam
to solve all our problems.
Making us learn how to fend for ourselves would be a good start.
crashdive123
07-10-2009, 08:33 PM
We've gotten fatter, lazier and more dependent on Uncle Sam
to solve all our problems.Well, two out of three?
BENESSE
07-10-2009, 08:48 PM
All I'm guilty of is having been lazier in the past.
That is quickly changing.
I think there is some basic fantasy of being the lone survivor when everyone else dies. I get that sense that some folks WANT to be out there with a .308 walking patrol on the deserted street of a city or sitting high atop a ridge line some place.
Frankly, I don't harbor such illusions. If something that bad happened I know I'd probably be called a victim along with everyone else. If by some special grace I wasn't then I'd be looking for others to try to put the pieces back together.
BENESSE
07-10-2009, 08:54 PM
I'd hate to be a lone survivor but being a victim
due to my own stupidity would suck as well.
I have to agree with the rest as I enjoyed your post and welcome how you brought us to many of the basic of what is needed for survival. Yes we in the west share many advantages and carry BOB of 45-85 pounds, and while these extras that we have and include give us more luxury in our survival, you showed that with a few basic items we can and have as a species have proven ourselves resilient and have survived for sometime now. I have also thought of a pot as a long term survival item and it is the reason I have purchased a dutch oven to accomodate my boiling and cooking needs and have place it in my BOL. I do not have a pot in my bag as I assumed I would be able to make it to that location but in light of your post I see that is just wishful at best thinking. Thank you for awakening me to another aspect of a default in my prep list. I must now find a way to incorporate a pot into my BOB that I carry in my SUV. This one though will be stainless and light. Come to think of it a emptied coffee can might serve as the perfect item to fit that bill. I could drill to holes in the top to affix a wire clothes hanger as a handle and walla I have a efficient light pot that is small and light enough yet durable enough to travel anywhere and meet my boiling needs to hydrate my family. I will also probably include a regular sauce pan pot but I want to remain open to adaptibility of using items around me, in case of loss, damage or theft. These items such as coffee cans can be found thrown out behind any restaraunt, coffee shop and even at the local dump. We are talking survival. Thanks for bringing back simplicity and refreshing us on the survivalist adaptability.
chiangmaimav
07-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Very excellent posting and a very good discussion. I work with Burmese refugees here and my girlfriend escaped from Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and they know a great deal about survival. It is also true that rice makes a very good MRE. Sticky rice is a very good food source to carry and any edible plant or vegetable or meat can be added to rice to make a nutritious meal. During Vietnam War the Vietnamese would carry live chickens or ducks with their beaks taped shut tied to their belts when they went on a long march.
endurance
07-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Do you know how much rice and beans you could have for that money ? Do you know how long you could feed a family of 4 with $70 worth of beans and rice ?
Actually, about 67 pounds of beans and 67 pounds of rice at $0.52/pound (what I paid for Jasmine rice and pinto beans my last trip to Costco). That works out to be about 213,663 calories, or enough to feed a family of four at a bare subsistance level of 1,200 calories per day for 44.5 days.
Compared to 12 MREs, which at one per person per day would last three days.
Yep, I'm with you. Sometimes simpler is better. We've been trained to be consumers. We do it well. I'm certainly not going to slight someone if they want a few comfort items but they should recognize the difference between comfort items and necessities. As you said, a simple pot to boil water in would be a great place to start. Too often they blow right by that pot and start looking at camoflage netting to hide their truck in case we have a Red Dawn invasion.
Again, many thanks for the well thought out post.
BENESSE
07-11-2009, 11:56 AM
67 pounds of rice and beans are swell if you don't have to carry them on your back.
Let's keep things in perspective.
What works in one part of the world may not work in another.
It's good to know the basics but be aware of ALL you options and be flexible
and realistic.
The principles of basic survival are the same no matter where you are in the world. You need shelter, water and food, body temperature regulation and a few basic tools to support those principles.
Good stuff. These are the archetypes that govern human survival and are dictated by the needs of the human body not the environment it is in. it is good not to get lost in the particulars but to start with what we need to stay alive. Mac
endurance
07-11-2009, 03:12 PM
Yep, my point wasn't to say you should try to carry 100+ pounds of beans and rice, but dollar for dollar, beans and rice are a much better value for your dollar. Rice works out to be about 1,634 calories per pound, beans are about 1,554 calories per pound. The reason they're the one of the staple foods of the world is because they're a complimentary protein. If you tried to live on rice alone, you'd suffer from malnutrition and die; if you tried to live on beans alone, the same thing would happen. But, they each have essential amino acids the other doesn't and they make a perfect meatless complete protein.
If you want to compare four pounds of MREs to four pounds of beans and rice, while the MRE entrees may be more calorie dense because of the fat content, with all the packaging, I think you'd have a pretty close horse race. Toss in a cup of olive oil in your kit, along with the beans and rice and now you have to say advantage to the cheap and simple option.
MREs are ideal for the trunk of your car if you get trapped in a snow storm, since they cook themselves and provide a hot meal to boost morale. I keep a 14 day supply around the house for a convenient meal if the power goes out. But it's simply not realistic to store a year's worth of them. Used in concert with other grains, a year's worth of rice, beans, wheat (for bread making), pasta, oats and corn is not only inexpensive, it stores well and can be integrated into a normal diet. By storing things that you eat everyday, you gain the benefit of keeping your stored food fresh and also save money in your normal diet.
FYI, I've always had to go to Asian supermarkets to get my Jasmine rice (the flavor is much better than normal white rice), but on my last trip to Costco they had 50# sacks of it for $26, almost half what I've been paying. That's only $0.10/pound more that regular white rice and, imho, a much better product.
One of the things that bothers me the most about coming back to the US every four years is giving up our rice and beans diet. We just can't get decent rice here. Someone just read that and thought "Rice is rice!" Not when you live in a culture that eats rice at every meal. The jasmine rice is good but it is very different than what we're used to.
In Brazil we keep about a month and a half supply of rice and beans on hand and if things look like they are going to be unstable for a while (financially more then anything else) we increase that to two or three months.
Our typical meals are black beans and rice with fresh veggies and meat or a fried egg. We usually eat that with vinaigrette, toasted manioc flour with bacon bits, and couve (shredded kale lightly fried in coconut oil with crushed garlic and salt.)
Another thing Brazilians eat with their meals is Angu. This is really simple, just cornmeal mush that is cooked until it gets firm. This is spooned out in big slabs and eaten with thick stew or covered with meaty spaghetti sauce. When you really have to feed alot of people Angu is the bomb.
Frango com Quiabo, nossa senhora, isto e demais. Quando esta preparado corretamente nao tem aquele meleca. O quiabo faz milagres com frango caipira, um pouco angu... O prato dos meus sonhos.
OK, I'm back... At least we're having slow cooked ribs tonight. Mac
Grant H
07-11-2009, 04:54 PM
8- Soap.
Soap is one of those items often missing from our gear. Soap can of course be extracted from nature, and this is why it has slipped into the "extra" list.
Along with the first aid kit, soap can often mean the difference between life and death.
9- Rope.
Rope can also be extracted from nature (hence its place here), but this simple item has been with us for a long time. Rope is everywhere, and fulfills many functions.
That is all.
crashdive123
07-11-2009, 06:07 PM
Dreaming of chicken and okra Mac?
To sum up, you have Jasmine Rice but what kind of beans? Black beans? What's the staple for Brazil?
To sum up, you have Jasmine Rice but what kind of beans? Black beans? What's the staple for Brazil?
Yes, that was chicken and okra.
The beans in Brazil depend on where you go. In Rio they eat mostly black beans. In Minas Gerais where I live they eat a reddish brown bean. We alternate between the two.
Black beans and smoked pork ribs. You put the ribs in the pressure cooker on top of the beans. Dreaming again...
We found a place where we can get Brazilian rice but its in Newark NJ. Even then its an off brand, not what we're used to. From a survival standpoint I have to say that you can live very well on a diet of rice and beans. I've managed to thrive on it for 12 years.
We are used to it but often visiting Americans have a hard time eating rice and beans at every meal for more than a week or two. The body does adjust and the flatulence problem goes away. There's always Beano, an enzyme that allows the body to digest beans. You just put a little on your first fork full and chow down. It tastes like mild soysauce. Mac
More follow up questions. I usually prepare dried beans by soaking them overnight. How on earth do you do that while on the move? I can obviously use canned black beans but do you use dried beans when you are out in the bush?
Also, how do you normally prepare the okra in Brazil? That crap is pretty slimy to me but my wife loves the stuff. I'm growing it in the garden this year for her. I can probably eat it fried. I can eat it in gumbo but don't if I don't have to. Just curious how they do it in Brazil.
We use a pressure cooker for beans. Starting with dried beans it only takes 30 - 40 minutes, we don't soak them overnight. I don't take beans out to the bush.
For Okra (quiabo) you cut it up and stir fry it in a hot pan before you boil it. This cuts down on the slime problem very much.
Pressure cookers do amazing things. You can put really awful cuts of meat in a pressure cooker and they turn out tender. If you really ever plan to survive on rice and beans then please buy a pressure cooker and learn how to use it. All of Latin America agrees on this point.
Yes, I have seen what happens when a pressure cooker explodes. I saw one blow a porch off a house. Buy a good one with redundant safety valves and it isn't likely to happen. Mac
SARKY
07-12-2009, 09:53 PM
If you are going to carry a semi-prepared food item, look into the Mountain House Pro Packs. Unlike the regular mountain house freeze dried pack the Pro Packs are vacume sealed which cuts down their bulk. I am able to carry 10 of these in a SpecOps butt pack along with tea, hot chocolate, oatmeal, sugar, protien bars, and a pot
Winnie
07-13-2009, 08:55 AM
We use a pressure cooker for beans. Starting with dried beans it only takes 30 - 40 minutes, we don't soak them overnight. I don't take beans out to the bush.
For Okra (quiabo) you cut it up and stir fry it in a hot pan before you boil it. This cuts down on the slime problem very much.
Pressure cookers do amazing things. You can put really awful cuts of meat in a pressure cooker and they turn out tender. If you really ever plan to survive on rice and beans then please buy a pressure cooker and learn how to use it. All of Latin America agrees on this point.
Yes, I have seen what happens when a pressure cooker explodes. I saw one blow a porch off a house. Buy a good one with redundant safety valves and it isn't likely to happen. Mac
I love my pressure cooker! I've had it for 30 years now and it's great!
I've never tried cooking beans from dry in it though, must give it a go.
And Macs right any old cut of meat turns out distinctly edible.
BENESSE
07-13-2009, 09:55 AM
What kind of pot specifically would you guys recommend for a BOB?
What have you tried that works better than the rest?
There's too much to choose from and I can't test them all.
Benesse - IMHO, I would go with a stainless steel or titanium pot if you plan to be mobile. Aluminum is heavy and can react with acidic foods. Cast Iron is wonderful stuff but very heavy. So, by process of elimination, you wind up with a stainless steel or titanium pot. For the house or car I love cast iron. Once it's seasoned it's the berries.
If several of us a backpacking then I take along Primus Litech pots.
http://www.backcountrygear.com/images/PrimusLitechCookingSetbig.jpg
But there is no reason you can't pick up a stainless steel stock pot at a thrift store. I picked up one at Goodwill a couple of months ago. Perfectly fine pot. It just needed to be cleaned up.
Remy,
You're doing a good job of keeping this thread on target. Rather than thinking "what should I buy" I think it is best to think in terms of "What should I be pulling from the rubble?"
If you suddenly found yourself in a place that had been flattened by a Katrina or SoCal 7.8 "Big One" and you were looking across a debris field of your former neighborhood what would you collect to solve your problems right now? Lets say for discussion that all of your personal preps and belongings were first burned in a fire then washed away with the remains looted and sold for scrap (ie they're gone). However, you do have a debris field of house contents before you and the initial event is over, you made it that far.
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3852/damagefromhurricaneandr.jpg
Damage from Hurricane Andrew
Lorna
07-13-2009, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the wonderful post Remy. It's good to be humbled once in a while. Puts things in perspective.
chiangmaimav
07-13-2009, 10:57 PM
In SE Asia the refugees often do not carry any of the 10 mitems listed, but they do manage to improvise them. The one item that is invaluable here is a machete, as thoug it is possible to fashion stone axes and such, they cannot do the work of even a low quality machete. Bamboo, coconuts and banana leaves are very good materials for bowls, tarps, shelters, mats etc. Unfortunately they often do not have access to modern first aid supplies, but they do remarkably well with homemade remedies. And in addition to fish, there are fruits, vegetables, insects and edible plants for food. Local people walk around the jungle and pick up edible plants as easily as we go to the supermarket.
I really think this thread is the crux of what we all want to achieve. Mac did a nice job of "what can I salvage". That's really what many will be faced with at some time in their lives because of some catastrophe be it tornado, hurricane, earthquake, etc.
There is a wealth of material in that picture just be sure it hasn't been contaminated by something (sewage, chemicals, petroleum, etc.)
graffixx808
07-14-2009, 01:43 AM
great post---- i think all you really need is common sense and some knowledge.. and a good solid knife is always nice..:)
If you knew what you were about I think scavenging a debris field for items that would help you survive you would come up with the things in the original post fairly quick. I don't think anyone would consider it looting either, as long as you avoided the temptation to accumulate jewelry boxes and plasma TV's.
Tools, tarps, rope, pots, bottles, a gas grill, blankets, canned goods, camping gear, etc. If you think about it a debris field would be a very resource rich environment if you found such a place growing wild. Your main problem is that it would be populated by large, distraught primates who just can't see it. Mac
oldsoldier
07-19-2009, 09:08 PM
Excellent post makes one think and in my case makes me realize how little i know compared to the restof you guys
pocomoonskyeyes
07-19-2009, 09:50 PM
Having been interested in survival since a kid the two that I always try to have on my person no matter where I am are Knife and something to produce fire.Another item you might want to try for fishing is this A couple of kitchen matches waterproofed, part of a striker from the box,one of the blades from a disposable razor.wrap the matches with enough line to attach to a pole.add a sinker acouple of small hooks,and an empty chapstick tube and rubber band put all in hollow tube place rubber band around it.portable take anywhere fishing kit and noone has to know.I found that in the Backwoodsman magazine last issue. there isat least some of the neccessities you can keep on your person at all times.Tube acts as a float.
Bowls can be fashioned, in certain situations most of the other stuff can be scrounged after a natural disaster or something similar. My main bug out items are always with me.I can make or scrounge most if not all the other items. cordage is something really nice to have,550 cord is hard to beat when you consider all the apps you can use it for.
But the best thing....I've seen right here ...the mind .... thinking and preparing.
UnknownWarrior
07-23-2009, 07:46 PM
1- The pot.
2- The wool blanket
3- The tarp.
4- Water.
5- The machete.
6- Fire.
Anything beyond these 6 items, in the realm of necessities, are considered extras.
Excellent list, Remy!
I'm having a hearty laugh after reading this so called "survival kit":
http://www.emergencypreparationforum.com/here-s-my-survival-kit-and-it-s-contents-updated-33.html
Such kits shouldn't be called survival kits I think.
crashdive123
07-23-2009, 07:51 PM
What do you think kits like that should be called?
UnknownWarrior
07-23-2009, 08:15 PM
Benesse - IMHO, I would go with a stainless steel or titanium pot if you plan to be mobile. Aluminum is heavy and can react with acidic foods. Cast Iron is wonderful stuff but very heavy. So, by process of elimination, you wind up with a stainless steel or titanium pot. For the house or car I love cast iron. Once it's seasoned it's the berries.
If several of us a backpacking then I take along Primus Litech pots.
But there is no reason you can't pick up a stainless steel stock pot at a thrift store. I picked up one at Goodwill a couple of months ago. Perfectly fine pot. It just needed to be cleaned up.
How nice would it be if we could have a foldable pressure cooker!
Unknown Warrior - That's all well and good. It's a nice survival kit. Remy wasn't suggesting that a kit like that be replaced. In fact, he's posted many photos along the same lines as your link. I think he's quite well prepared for his environment.
I think you missed the gist of his post. He was listing out the basic needs as identified by MILLIONS of folks world wide. They are surviving day to day with precisely the kind of items he posted. Our mentality, on the other hand, is to load ourselves up like a pack mule.
UnknownWarrior
07-23-2009, 08:29 PM
What do you think kits like that should be called?
Well, it's like a whole store of kits in a huge bag. I like the basic survival kit remy posted. May be adding to it some small items as secondary.
As remy said, instead of that truckload of kit contents, the bag could be full with the 6 items and rice + beans + water and still one would be able to survive for more than 72 hours.
When I used to go outstation at first, I used to pack my bags full with stuff I didn't need really. Only after several visits, I cut the contents to make a medium siZed bag as well the time taken to get the contents.
@ Unknown Warrior. Hmmm. I think I stand corrected. Perhaps I misread your intent. My apology.
crashdive123
07-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Well, it's like a whole store of kits in a huge bag. I like the basic survival kit remy posted. May be adding to it some small items as secondary.
As remy said, instead of that truckload of kit contents, the bag could be full with the 6 items and rice + beans + water and still one would be able to survive for more than 72 hours.
When I used to go outstation at first, I used to pack my bags full with stuff I didn't need really. Only after several visits, I cut the contents to make a medium siZed bag as well the time taken to get the contents.
That's all fine and well, but it would really depend on the intended purpose of the kit (a really over-used term) that you have put together.
Jiujitman
07-23-2009, 09:45 PM
Very well thought out. I enjoyed it.
BENESSE
07-23-2009, 10:08 PM
The basics are good, the extras, really helpful.
Let's keep it real.
If you can only have a knife, or a gun AND a knife
you'd go for the latter. (remember the first Indiana Jones movie?)
We're all just trying to hedge our bets and when it comes to
taking advantage of something better than originally available,
then why not?
endurance
07-23-2009, 11:10 PM
The why not's depend on the who, where and what. If you're traveling over rugged terrain, need to move as fast as possible, and carry as much food as possible because you don't know when it might be possible to resupply, then I'm going to value more food and maybe four of five fewer knives than the kit that was linked to and I'm certainly going to ditch the slingshot and half pound of bbs for something a bit more practical. If I want to carry as many days worth of food, but once I arrive at a point of safety, I won't have to move again, then beans and rice make sense. If I'm going to have to stay on the move and may not have time to gather wood for fuel, then MREs might make more sense.
I think Remy's post stands on its own as a well reasoned evaluation of what millions of true, real-world survivors depend on to make it from day to day. Does that mean binning your current kit? Heck no, but it might mean re-evaluating a few things. If you're truly a refugee, a full-sized axe might make way more sense than light sticks and a candle lantern. I think the whole canteen cup thing was covered pretty well, too. While they have their place, if there's any chance you're going to be away from resupply for more than a couple weeks, you want something large enough to boil water in.
panch0
07-23-2009, 11:27 PM
Awesome thread! Good points brought up by all.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 02:21 AM
Ok when new(er) I assumed I was taken to the beginning of a thread and started reading from there. I now see that I missed half of this entire thread!!!:blushing: I'm still learning
Now starting from the Original post I see where Remy is coming from... and agree with him mostly(machete/axe-axe/machete) Having been one of the displaced persons he is talking about(PC for homeless) I lived (fairly comfortably I might add) with just the basics he is talking about. A pot is extremely important,while aluminum foil might be cool for a "pocket survival kit" it doesn't fill the bill. It doesn't have to be fancy or cost much,can be placed in the bottom of a pack to have items placed in (if they are fragile) or placed over the top to add waterproofing to materials inside. I would suggest a stock pot with lid for a basic pot, If you can have only one that would be my first choice. I had several wool blankets in my camp. i dumpster dived for a discarded tent behind a Boy Scout troop for some that had been discarded because of damage.
For water I scrounged several gallon jugsand cleaned them out. I got water from a nearby facility that I "watched out for" they even gave me some food on occasion.
On #5 I slightly disagree, in my situation a hatchet(the kind that has a hammer on one side) was easier and less noticeable to get and carry through town. I used this to make a spear/sword kind of thing out of some flatbar I found on the roadside.(If you had the strength you could've shoved it right through a car door Tough point!! this was for defense only as it had no edge. I wanted a tool that I could use to make other tools from discarded/lost metal and fire. Couldn't do that with a machete.
and Fire... We always had a fire even in summer,as it was the only way we had to cook/warm/make stuff, mostly it was just a "bic" lighter and whatever wood or coal we could find. Remy is talking about the things that were the basics I survived on. For a year.
Sure I scrounged any kind of string,rope, or twine I could find. I wished I had been in an area that was fishable but the waters around where I was were just too polluted.It was actually a health advisement to eat no more than one fish a year from these waters.
as for the Beans and Rice not only are they nutritional they are filling they make your stomach feel fuller if that makes sense to you. Maybe a Dietician out there can explain it better.
as for soap it was fairly Important but not necessary. Think about how many dirty homeless people you've seen,whether on TV or in person.
LostOutrider
07-24-2009, 05:58 AM
Having been one of the displaced persons he is talking about(PC for homeless) I lived (fairly comfortably I might add) with just the basics he is talking about.
I know I'm not the only one here who'd be interested in seeing you post a thread telling us about that experience.
I have to agree with LostOutrider. But only if that is something you're willing to share. The knowledge gained would be really good. The type of information above is excellent and I thank you for sharing that.
I'd like to know what your "possessions" consisted of unless the above is the list. Where did you live? (underpass, field, etc. not what town). How did you acquire the beans and rice and other foods? That type of information could be pretty useful.
rebel
07-24-2009, 08:42 AM
Poco,
I agree with L.O. and Rick. If you would care to share your knowledge I'd be interested in what you have to say about your time as a homeless person.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 10:17 AM
I have to agree with LostOutrider. But only if that is something you're willing to share. The knowledge gained would be really good. The type of information above is excellent and I thank you for sharing that.
I'd like to know what your "possessions" consisted of unless the above is the list. Where did you live? (underpass, field, etc. not what town). How did you acquire the beans and rice and other foods? That type of information could be pretty useful.
I'll have to think about that, I don't want it to come out as a "War Story", if you know what I mean. I'd also appreciate any support from others who have lived this way.Whether homeless or displaced by natural disaster, you can Pm me if you don't want your story "out there with the dirty laundry". As for me I don't care who knows.
Besides the one (small) stock pot, I/we had a smaller pot, a cofee pot, And a fry pan. If you can't cook what you need(except bread) with these and aluminum foil you probably need to learn some other cooking skills. Yeah I wish I had a Dutch oven and a whole bunch of other stuff. But a frying pan, with a pot over top will work,if you line the bottom(now the top) with rocks and mud to hold the coals. It's not as good as a dutch oven but you have to improvise with what you have.
My "residence" (as it was a more or or less semi-permanent thing) was in a patch of woods about a mile or so from the courthouse in a fairly large city (2nd or 3rd largest city in that state) it was on Railroad tracks. This patch was about 50 yds X 300 yds. there were 4"tents" where we slept/stored our stuff. Someone always stayed in camp as guard. Fires were kept fairly small,to conserve fuel and to avoid nosy people.
As for the food most came from different restaraunts and church groups,as well as some of the places I "nightwatched" so to speak. These nearby machine shops etc. knew that I was there as did the police and in return "Paid" me with some of the basics we needed. I didn't have a Gun but everyone on the streets knew I had several knives,and how to use them, my "street name" was Catfish because of the blades and my handlebar mustach. We stopped someone from stealing metal to resale at the scrap yard and stuff like that.(where else can you get a "guard" that cheap?) coffee and sugar came out of a restaraunt from the head cook I had befriended, yeah it was "bumming" of sorts,but we made it last. Church groups gave out some food every couple of weeks and this is where the bulk of our food came from. Every now and then they would have a "cookout' hamburgers and hot dogs Maybe if you were lucky pork steak, and kool aid, lots of koolaid.
this next may sound dishonest.... A lot of our clothes, blankets,and stuff like that came from Salvation Army drop boxes. once a week they would overflow so you could poke around in the stuff laying around and maybe get what you needed[(why do people donate some of the things they do I'll never know) personal massagers:blushing:(you know what I mean)]. I didn't like doing what I did,but I did what I had to.
In another Post I made reference to "flying a sign",:dots: This is the classic "Homeless-will work for food" you see . Which is where I got the money to buy the roofers hatchet I was talking about, as well as some of the stuff we needed to purchase. You see most people will give you a dollar or two [sometimes even $5, $10, or $(rarely) $20] sometimes change but mostly nothing. I saw it as Work, it's extremely embarassing for me,and I hated doing it. Almost no one will take you home or work to do any actual work. the Con Artists among Homeless count on that fact. So if you see the same guy all the time he's making his living that way (and some do... with a house , car , TV, etc. these are the ones that make me mad) The true transients and homeless well that's another story. I feel compassion for them.
Maybe this is what you were asking for maybe not,if you have questions about something just ask.
Humbly yours, Mel/Catfish/pocomoonskyeyes
rebel
07-24-2009, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the info Pocomoonskyeyes. I could see problems arising in finding a semi-permanent local that would also be close enough to meet the demands for food. I'm surprised your were able to find a place that close and not be encouraged to leave. Do you recall what some of the others did for a place to live?
What would be your "10" list?
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 11:19 AM
My #1 Knife the most basic of all tools yet can be used to make so much. Shelter using wood and dove-tail notches, fire board, used with flint, I could go on ad nauseum about what you can do with a knife. I have one on me at all times, most of the time 2 and usually 3. If I had to go with only 1 item this would be the 1 item I would choose.The Only time I don't have one is when it is ABSOLUTELY prohibited I.E Courthouse, airport etc. It is the item I would be redundant with in every bag or pack. there are ways to cook other than using a pot but they take time to make and again you need a knife to do so.(or a sharp rock at the very least... basically tho it's a knife)
The other 9 I will have to give thought to Although after looking at Remy's post I wouldn't change his/hers last 4 they are right on there. So I guess I have to come up with 2-6.
Thank you. That is what I was looking for. For example, improvising the skillet lid to turn it into a dutch oven is something I had never thought of. I never had the need but I can file that info away. Perhaps I would think of that on my own if the situation were to arise and perhaps I wouldn't.
I try not to pass judgment on folks unless they are truly criminal. I have enough trouble keeping my own nose clean to worry about how someone else chooses to live. Besides, I figure I would be judging them based on my set of values, which may or may not be valid.
In any case, thanks for sharing. The 10 most essential items that Rebel asked about would be very good (or 7 or 5 or whatever you think they were to you).
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 12:46 PM
#2 Ok Water has got to be it and I'll Explain why. Even after a short while without it you can get really distracted and become obsessed with how thirsty you are. You can't survive but a week or so without it. Water is more important than food. so something you can put a good amount in. That was one of my main concerns, It wasn't food but water I worried about.
#3 Wool blanket even when wet wool will keep you warm,yeah it may itch but we aren't talking about avoiding discomfort but staying alive. Hypothermia can set in after a cold rain. you can improvise shelter to get out of it but you still have to warm up. Yeah you can improvise with newspapers or cardboard, but if they get wet they are useless.
#4 Pot - Remy covered it. If a pot could be sealed I would place it in the #2 position.
#5 Tarp you can use it to catch water if you have to,or make a solar still, or as shelter Remy covered all the uses for that.
#6 ax for reaons I stated in earlier posts
#7 fire - I know you are all saying that it is more important than that, but here I'll just refer you back to my #1 and you'll see that in a sense it is already covered there. Why I place it here is because, here, I am talking about something as an alternate source or backup to the basics. lighter,fire piston,metal match et al. Yeah I know not everyone knows how to make fire with those. I do and that is why I place it here. yeah I love to have these but I can get by without them
I tried to prioritize what I would look for first, second, third, etc. I am sure some(or many) will disagree with me. That is OK you may convince me otherwise. Also I tried to think as a Homeless or displaced persons perspective what you can put in a small pack. Be ready to move at a moments notice. And have a chance. If you only have 20 - 30 minutes to run around your house and grab stuff and run. Think about your skill level and prioritize what you will need and why.
Last thing I have to say here Is - know yourself and your skill levels.Be honest it is only yourself that will be hurt if you aren't honest(hopefully).
My #1 Priority though is knowledge, ultimately it is the only thing you can take with you if you are stripped bare by a flash flood,hurricane or whatever. Everything can be taken away from you,except for what is contained by your own skin. So learning all you can is what it is all about,and ultimately why each of us is here.
Jonesy
07-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Just wanted to say Thank You to everyone who contributed to this thread.
I have learned a lot from you all and a lot about myself and some of my misguided opinions and judgements.
pocomoonskyeyes thanks for the insights. I can't honestly say I have ever been hungry or can even begin to understand what you have experienced. I won't look at a homeless person the same way again.
Poco, it's a perfectly valid list for you. It doesn't matter if it works for anyone else. I can certainly understand your criteria for each one. Again, thanks!!
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 03:38 PM
:blushing:Thanks Guys... I don't know what to say just thanks, I guess.:blushing:
I do invite differing opinions,just explain what you think should be priority and why, I reevaluate all the time. But I doubt anyone can change my opinion on the knife's role in survival/protection.
Poco, thanks for sharing your experiences.
I've known a few good people who became homeless through no fault of their own. With a little help and a break or two, they've all gotten back on their feet and are really decent hard working folks. Nuff said. I've never looked down on any of them. Honestly, there but for the Grace of God go all of us. Don't think it can't happen to you everyone - it can.
From my experience, most homeless folks will willingly accept fair employment.
What gets my a$$ are the wanna' be clients that walk through my door looking for something for nothing. Kids, like 17 - 25 years old, who live with mommy and daddy and got in the crap one time too many so that mom and dad won't foot the legal bills anymore. I've offered some of these clowns work in lieu of payment - the same type of work I've done myself in the past - 40 hours of their work for 20 hours of mine - and they refuse. It's "too hard" or it's "beneath them." Well, they can kiss my @$$ because it's beneath me to work for some lazy b@$tard who's got no pride or work ethic at all.
Sourdough
07-24-2009, 04:00 PM
Well done Poco, well done, you just can't argue with hands-on "Boots in the Field" EXPERIENCE. Thank you. Note: We have another member who checks in now and then, he lost his home last year to forclosure, and has been homeless and staying in homeless shelters, and he post about it. Anyone who looks down on homeless people is a dumb'a$$ FOOL.
rebel
07-24-2009, 05:30 PM
pocomoonskyeyes,
First , thank you for sharing a hardship with us so that we may learn. Your experience has been to say the least very beneficial. These experiences are not comfortable for you . However, They may be beneficial for others.
Second, Thank you for an experienced list of what you recommend. This goes beyond a perceived list and may save lives.
crashdive123
07-24-2009, 05:56 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience with us Mel.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-24-2009, 09:47 PM
Again Thank you all, However there is one thing that I have to correct, I told you wrong and it has bothered me all day. I think I said using the stock pot and fry pan, that the fry pan is on bottom. This is the opposite that it should be, Fry pan should be on TOP. Sorry but it has been a few years. Also if they don't fit tight You may have to make a seal using aluminum foil. Just dropped in to correct a wrong, gotta" go sorry for any typo's I am typing fast for me.
OK I made it back,and can correct the typo's. Sorry.
Lorna
07-24-2009, 10:40 PM
Poco, thank you so much for your posts. It always helps to hear from someone who has lived through something like that.
LostOutrider
07-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Adding to all the thanks, Poco. It is always a gift to get to learn from someone's experience.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-28-2009, 03:30 PM
You have all been so gracious with praise, that I truly do appreciate, but do not feel I deserve. I simply did what anyone here would've done... the best I could under the circumstances. You have been sooo kind with your words, that thank you does not seem sufficient. I am truly at a loss for words, right now I am just babbling trying to come up with something adequate... and failing. so I'll stop and wish you could see the gratitude that I can't express.:confused1::bawling:
crashdive123
07-28-2009, 04:27 PM
The information that you have shared may help others that find them in a similar situation without having to do all the trial and error that you experienced. Thinking "outside the box" is an expression that gets thrown around alot, but one that really becomes necessary in situations like the one in which you found yourself. It is all of us that should be showing our gratitude for the help that you have offered us, wether we actually have to rely on that help in the future or not. So, thanks again.
UnknownWarrior
07-28-2009, 06:25 PM
1- The pot
It would be nice to get the siZe and type of a typical, nice pot / cooker which is better in a disaster survival situation. SiZe and weight woud be of concern as well the space it would take. Would be nice if remy and others could add such detail to this list.
I've read that some Zip lock bags can be used in place of a pot to heat water etc but don't know about these.
2- The wool blanket
Wool blanket that would be something which could fit your pocket like this towel would be really great as it would take almost no space:
http://cgi.ebay.in/Amazing-Magic-Towel_W0QQitemZ380142432643QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_203?hash=item5882413183&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294 %3A25
3- The tarp
Again how long and what other essential things go with it? I have no experience in this area so pardon my ignorance. It would depend on the numer of people in the family but still, say for a normal family of 4? And for just one person?
4- Water
How much can you carry since it adds weight. If for just one thing, I would carry this only thing and others would agree I think. I am experienced remaining without fod for atleast 7 days and you need far lesser water when you don't eat. But still it'll be heavy to carry around a lot. SO how much and in what kind of containters would be best?
I read somewhere in this forum someone asked why don't they make dehydrated water. How nice that would be, indeed !
5- The machete
No experience here again but same thing as above, how big/long/what siZe?
6- Fire
Some posts say it'd be best to use flint steel etc rather than water-proof mathes or lighter. What would be best for a survival point of view, and possible for most people?
Anything beyond these 6 items, in the realm of necessities, are considered extras.
A bag for the above items is essential too, tho it's understood but without which you can't carry the items. What kind would be nice?
Other than these, everything is extra or secondary. But could remy or someone come with a secondary list, neglecting the really not needed stuff as tertiary? Tho I guess these things also change / depend on the area / country you live in.
UnknownWarrior
07-28-2009, 06:29 PM
It is all of us that should be showing our gratitude for the help that you have offered us, wether we actually have to rely on that help in the future or not. So, thanks again.
Of course, I should too. Thankyou poco, remember that whenever someone will remember this info and use it in some survival situation, you get credited, tho on a subtle level (read karmic stuff), but for sure :)
@ Poco - I'm with Crash on this as well. It's the fact that you are sharing your experience that makes us grateful. This is a side of real survival that not many of us have been exposed to. It's a long leap from the theoretical to the actual practice and understanding what someone with that experience can and can not do is invaluable, I think. Understanding the thought process, what you looked for and looked out for, and how you negotiated you days is a point of view that only comes from someone that has lived it.
We had a young lady (Amy) that recently joined. She had been lost for 11 days (I think) in Alaska with no supplies and survived. You bet we were interested in her perspective on how she did it. Just as we are interested on yours in how you did it. The thanks is all ours!
To Unknown Warrior - I think the size of a lot of the material is going to be dependent upon your personal needs. The size of the pot may be somewhat small for me but may need to be much larger for someone with a large family. I know that doesn't answer your question but I don't know what you will need it for so I can't suggest a size.
An average person will need 2-3 liters of water per day. More if it is cold, hot or dry. To prevent long term dehydration, you need to think in the area of 4-6 liters per day. So figure that in, per person, for your pot. Remember, you may need to purify water in that pot so boiling a liter at a time might be pretty time consuming to keep you in water. A 7.5 to 11 liter stainless steel pot isn't that heavy but can boil a lot of water at one time.
You won't find a wool blanket that small, I'm afraid. At least I've never seen one.
Depending on the configuration you use, a 2.4 X3.04 meter (8X10 feet) tarp will work for one person. If you just want to make a rainproof roof for a larger group then I'd go with a larger tarp. 4.26x4.26 meters (14x14) or something like that.
1 liter of water weighs 1 kilogram (2.2 pounds) so you will need some type of food safe container. Again, not knowing where you live and what you have available to you, I can't suggest an item. All I can say is make certain it is clean and has never contained anything that might poison you.
The type of machete will also depend on your needs. The length, angle of blade, etc. will be dependent upon what you are going to cut with it.
My preference between matches, lighter and steel would be steel for long term. Just remember that your lighter can still be used as a sparker once the fuel is exhausted. All three would be the best but if you have to choose one, I'd go with the steel.
I hope that helps.
endurance
07-28-2009, 10:02 PM
It would be nice to get the siZe and type of a typical, nice pot / cooker which is better in a disaster survival situation. SiZe and weight woud be of concern as well the space it would take. Would be nice if remy and others could add such detail to this list.
If I'm solo on a short trip, 1 quart will work, but if I'm going to be dependent on it to boil my water for purification, then 4-6 quarts for one person, 6-10 quarts for 2+ people. If I'm traveling, I'd go with stainless steel, if I'm stationary, then cast iron (dutch oven).
I've read that some Zip lock bags can be used in place of a pot to heat water etc but don't know about these.
Can you heat water? technically, yes. Can you cook in it and boil water for several weeks? No way in hell. I'd never rely on plastic to be a container to place over a fire. If it fails, you not only lost your container, you just doused your fire.
Wool blanket that would be something which could fit your pocket like this towel would be really great as it would take almost no space:
http://cgi.ebay.in/Amazing-Magic-Towel_W0QQitemZ380142432643QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_203?hash=item5882413183&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294 %3A25
Errrm, seriously, NO! Wool is the preferred material because it keeps you warm when it gets wet, is durable, flame retardant, and inexpensive. Yes, it's bulky, but loft=warmth. A towel is going to absorb water and keep that wetness next to you. That would sooner kill you than save your life.
I'd prefer a nice synthetic sleeping bag, but that wasn't the point of this thread. The point of the thread was to examine what refugees around the world use and survive with and why they may be better prepared than many folks with high-tech, gadget-filled bugout bags.
As for a tarp, I consider an 8'x10' silicone impregnated tarp with a hooped mosquito net to go over your head is the lightest practical solution. While a tent can be useful, a good quality tent is heavier and more expensive. Again, the purpose of the thread was looking at how the third world does it, not what is the latest and greatest gear. Tents are certainly useful items, but millions of refugees around the world live without them.
As for the machette, most are roughly 18", some longer some shorter. If you live in an area with little brush but lots of larger trees, an axe makes more sense.
How much can you carry since it adds weight. If for just one thing, I would carry this only thing and others would agree I think. I am experienced remaining without fod for atleast 7 days and you need far lesser water when you don't eat. But still it'll be heavy to carry around a lot. SO how much and in what kind of containters would be best?
That depends on why you're bugging out, how you'll be traveling, and if you'll be reaching safety with resupply or safety but no resupply. If I'm traveling and want to put on as many miles per day as possible, then something fast and easy to cook like dehydrated camping meals makes sense. However, If I'm going to a given destination and resupply may be days or months away, I'm going to carry as much of the highest calorie dense food as I can (beans, rice, oil, perhaps flour and salt). For water, I'm going to look for resupply every day on my route selection so I'll never have to carry more than six quarts at a time, but I want the capacity to carry up to 2.5 gallons in case I have to go days without resupply. Collapsable canteens are useful, but not necessarily as durable as Remy's suggestion of Jerry cans.
Some posts say it'd be best to use flint steel etc rather than water-proof mathes or lighter. What would be best for a survival point of view, and possible for most people?
For convenience, carry a lighter, but also carry a magnesium firestarter, too. Long after you're out of fuel for the lighter, the magnesium firestarter will be going strong.
A bag for the above items is essential too, tho it's understood but without which you can't carry the items. What kind would be nice?
For the refugee, they'll make what is commonly referred to as a Yukon pack, placing all their items that need transportation in the middle of the tarp and creating a large bundle using cord or rope to tie it up. Then create shoulder straps with the cord and pad with clothing or other material. For folks with money, a backpack makes more sense.
Other than these, everything is extra or secondary. But could remy or someone come with a secondary list, neglecting the really not needed stuff as tertiary? Tho I guess these things also change / depend on the area / country you live in.
Absolutely. Where you live makes a big difference. Fishing tackle is a lot less important if you live in the Mojave desert than if you live along the banks of the Mississippi. Cordage is almost always good to have along. I'd add a lot of items but Remy covered the essentials in his list and it's been pretty well filled out throughout the thread.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-29-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm surprised your were able to find a place that close and not be encouraged to leave. Do you recall what some of the others did for a place to live?
Well I Omitted my other half in what was related in earlier posts. I wanted to check with her and see if she minded ya'll knowing her part in the story.
You see I met her "on the streets" we were both homeless. She was the "inspiration" for me to get off the streets. She couldn't have survived that long in reality. Pimps and such prey on young women, and while it was dangerous enough it is even more so for females of any age.
While most waited for the homeless shelters to open their doors for the night. Some (like myself) chose to not go that route. Some like Dottie/Equus slept under overpasses. Some in alleys. and some in dumpsters even. Basically anywhere you could go and be left more or less alone. I didn't like those options and chose what I felt most comfortable with... woods no matter the size. Since I am really a "country boy" more or less. I chose that for the following reasons..
1) Less traffic from people as most were more Urbane than me.
2) more concealment - the people I trusted knew where to find me,even a couple of LEO's knew I was there and came by and checked ocassionally to make sure I wasn't one of the "Dearly departed".Same for a Preacher.
3) protection- I set up an "Early Warning Device" a vine attached to a shrub to make noise as someone came into the "camp". I guess my military training came into play in my choices-the three C's camoflage,cover, and concealment I never really thought about it before. But in a very real sense of the word it is a hostile environment, fights ocurred over what most would consider "trivial" things.
A lot of the other homeless people had their own "spots" but it wasn't something you advertised, competition for a "good spot" could become fierce. Fights happened and as a general rule I avoided such confrontations. But like prison you have a "rep" you have to uphold.... or become a victim. On occassion you have to fight to uphold your "Rep", or at the very least make others believe you are more vicious than you want to be. A lot of mine was just "acting" in other words carry yourself like a victim and you will be one. Carry yourself like a Bada$$ and very few will even try you, but be ready to back up your "act". For example you can dress like a Cowboy, act like a Cowboy, and talk like a Cowboy. If you go to a Rodeo however you better be ready to ride, or everyone will call you a foolish wannabe, and from then on you are fair game for everyone. I haven't really thought about a lot of these things for a good long while. But am recalling some things I had forgotten, some intentionally and some just because time has passed.
BENESSE
07-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Poco, if you don't mind me asking, how are you doing now, what are you up to?
Were you able to maintain your health while on the street?
Did you ever have a need for medical care and did you get it?
I wish you all the best!
Thanks for letting us in.
rebel
07-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Thanks for the information Poco. I'm glad you guys made it through a very difficult time. I could ask a lot more questions but, I wont. I look forward to your input on survival.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Poco, if you don't mind me asking, how are you doing now, what are you up to?
Were you able to maintain your health while on the street?
Did you ever have a need for medical care and did you get it?
I wish you all the best!
Thanks for letting us in.
Well it took some doing but after a while we managed to get a place to rent,through some friends moved to another state(Here in Ky). after a few years and two boys, you would probably never guess we'd been homeless, if you didn't know and we didn't tell you. The state I was in provided healthcare for the homeless the same as most welfare recipients(although I did not qualify for food stamps or checks, no address). although hardly any homeless used it. Surprisingly, living that kind of lifestyle , I hardly ever got a cold or flu. My teeth suffered the most. I now have none. Probably would've happened anyway.
Once a year there was a program to help homeless Vets and it held an annual "stand down" where they provided many services to help out. med. & dental checkup. Had some of my teeth pulled then. But far and large the most help for the homeless (at least where I was) came from churches, and if it weren't for them many would probably not have made it at all. Probably 80 or 90 % depended on them as did I.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-29-2009, 06:52 PM
Thanks for the information Poco. I'm glad you guys made it through a very difficult time. I could ask a lot more questions but, I wont. I look forward to your input on survival.
Rebel if there's any thing I can do, feel free to ask, I feel as if I have a debt to society in a sense.If this helps repay even a small portion, then gladly will I do it. This may be a philosophical or educational thing for the vast majority here. However I would like to caution NEVER believe it can't or won't happen to you or someone you know. It most certainly can, I used to think the same, and honestly looked down on the homeless...'til I became one, and met people like a former Professor, Heck I even met a Former NFL player who had once been homeless himself.... AFTER he left the NFL, so never ASSUME that anything can't happen to you. I'm not just talking about homelessness, but wilderness survival, getting lost, Hurricane, EF 5 tornado etc. After all in truth isn't that why we are all here? To learn and Prepare for these eventualities?
A saying from my Military days: " Expect the worst, hope for the best, you can't be disappointed-only pleasantly surprised.
I must apologize I haven't figured out how to respond to multiple quotes in the same post.
I must apologize I haven't figured out how to respond to multiple quotes in the same post.
Poco, just hit the little quotation marks on the lower right of eact post you want to quote and then hit "Post Reply" on the lower left. Then cut, paste, and edit away.
BTW - your military service? Others may disagree with me, but I think your wrong. Society owes you - alot.
pocomoonskyeyes
07-29-2009, 07:58 PM
SO THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT!!!!! (Slapping self in forehead) No. No one owes me anything. I owe those who came before and those who come after me. The ones who came before for allowing me to enjoy what we have today, The ones who come after for allowing us to keep it. I joined 'cause I wanted to, and have only 2 regrets about my service 1) turning down West Point, and 2) not staying in longer. I got out in Jan. '89 just before Desert shield. Didn't have a clue that was fixing to hit the fan or I would've stayed.
It makes me sick to see the way many veterans are treated. My clients are often referred to as being "dangerous" because of their military training and service.
One client, who was later found "not guilty", had to stand up at his bail hearing after his arrest. The D.A. made a point of telling the Judge that he was "dangerous" due to his special forces training. I responded, in part, by saying that the D.A.'s comments were repugnant and almost caused me to throw up.
I sincerely believe that honorably discharged veterans SHOULD get some consideration for their service. Today, it all too often seems that they get punished for it. And yeah, it makes me wanna' puke.
2dumb2kwit
07-29-2009, 09:25 PM
I'm with you, Ken.:smash:
davewolf164
08-01-2009, 05:13 PM
this does bring survival at its basics back in to play.I do like what you wrote remy,and it gives me more to ponder.As for the lone survivor,two heads are better than one lol.
Winnie
08-02-2009, 08:27 AM
I'd just like to add my thanks too Poco, It's all very well me sitting here imagining scenarios and what I would do, but you've been there and done it and survived.
As for the treatment of veterans, well all I can add to what Ken has said is my complete disgust at the way govts in a supposed civilised society can treat their heroes with such contempt.
crashdive123
08-09-2009, 06:12 PM
OK guys and gals - the windows have been washed, the dusting done, the dishes are all dry. Thread back open.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
08-09-2009, 06:37 PM
OK .. I 'll add
To this post with no military service to speak of.. ok USAFNAF.. MWR maintenance but still a civilian...a job I had at 17 through my Dad.. I have grown up while watching my Father reach Chief or as high as enlisted men are unlikely to get. We the U.S. forced him out in the end.. It is wrong how the government treats U.S.Veterans!!!! He won't even speak of his service and made sure myself and my brother didn't join.. We both wanted to, at some point... He served somewhere over 20 yrs. closer to 30 yrs..I am gonna have to research.
yellowcab
11-13-2025, 10:17 PM
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yellowcab
11-13-2025, 10:18 PM
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yellowcab
01-27-2026, 01:50 PM
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yellowcab
01-27-2026, 01:51 PM
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yellowcab
05-02-2026, 03:43 AM
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ELEG (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1181641)Шатр (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/832960)Adam (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1183646)Circ (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1189221)поэз (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/847435)Смир (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/819053)Форм (http://keyserum.ru/t/1181435)нача (http://kickplate.ru/t/1377305)Wilh (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1372214)Jewe (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1120720)Arti (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1408919)взаи (http://kinozones.ru/film/7888)Comi (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1203081)обор (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1230816)Spli (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1711314)
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Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192526)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194205)Ишев (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1315964)Zone (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1185627)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185583)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187010)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189573)Ryan (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1456970)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1187452)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185807)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1191574)Цимб (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160370)врем (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589080)меся (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1945)фарф (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590052)
yellowcab
05-02-2026, 03:44 AM
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