HELP w/Bugging In in NYC

[BENESSE]

Depending on what specific SHTF I'll most likely need
to stay put because I don't have a car & have nowhere to go really.
Fighting the crowds on foot on the way off the island
wouldn't be too wise--I've been around during 9/11 and that's
merely a taste of what could be in store if anything more serious
was to take place.
(The movie "I Am Legend" depicts the bugging out madness pretty well)

No matter how well prepared I am I'll need to band together with
like minded people if there's a prayer of survival and defending
against the criminal element.

I haven't seen any posts or even articles anywhere about
this particular predicament (staying put in a huge city)
beyond suggestions of getting out.

Any thoughts/suggestions from anyone? Seriously.

[Ken]

There are a multitude of threads on the questions you have raised. Use the "Search Function" -- make sure to put your search terms in quotes. And if you don't mind, how about telling us a bit about yourself? http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

[crashdive123]

BENESSE - there have been a few discussions on this. Basically preparing to shelter in place will involve having the supplies to do so and the means to keep it. Remy has done a bit on this, as he's in a large city as well. Do you have specific questions? What sort of scenario do you envision that would have all the folks around you in turmoil (the scenario in I Am Legend is not too likely to occur)?

[Rick]

You can certainly do a SWOT to determine your options. If you are not familiar with it, SWOT stands for Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. Sit down with paper and pencil and start writing them out. Think about it over the course of a couple of days. I assure you new items will pop into your mind. Try to envision all of the items. Friends, family, like minded folks, proximity to good/bad parts of the city, items in your house/apartment, etc. etc. Try to document as much as you can.

Once you have identified those four (4) elements you should begin to see a picture emerge that will help you determine where additional planning may be needed. You don't have to spend a lot of money to gain a lot of security. And you don't have to be drawn into web sites that offer you a complete package for a year either.

If you can answer Crash's questions then we can start to help you.

Welcome, by the way. An Introduction, as Ken suggested, will help us understand your skills, knowledge, etc.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

remember the movie "The Birds" it'll probably be like that..... No serious! evacuating a city will be something I choose not to be even close to. Good luck with that one....

[Rick]

Bugging in is an excellent option as long as you have thought it through and understand your risks. If some cases, the risks can be quite small.

[remy]

Hello.



Here is a book for you:
Ragnar's urban survival (by Ragnar Benson)
(a hard time guide to staying alive in the city)

[Sourdough]

I don't know how that sticky thing works, but this seems like a good subject for a sticky."BIG CITY SURVIVAL PERPS".

[Sourdough]

Well done Remy, You have sure put a massive amount of thought into this city survival preps. And your first-aid supplies are top shelf, well done.

[Rick]

No argument with that. Consider it stuck.

[Sourdough]

No argument with that. Consider it stuck.

Can you find the thread where Remy, shows his supplies, and move it over here....???

[Rick]

Remy has removed the pics but I will post the link. There is still a lot of good info and Crash and some others posted some pics.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4004&highlight=preparations

[Rick]

Nice write up, Remy. We are seeing more and more greening of cities. Roof top gardens not only provide "soft" space and edible benefits, they also reduce the reflected radiation and reduce the "island effect" found in cities.

Your information pertains to urbanites as well. Knowing your surroundings, which buildings are potentially valuable and which to avoid, etc. is great info for us, as well.

[BENESSE]

Thanks Remy, I couldn't agree more on ALL points!
And thank you Rick.

I've lived in Manhattan for over 20 years but only since 9/11
have I really, seriously, started thinking & preparing for "what if".
I don't work or move in circles where that's broached much
beyond the basic Red Cross preparedness.
If anyone's concerned about it they're not bringing it up
over brunch.
Everyone I know has cars and places outside the city
and I'm sure that's where they plan to go if evacuation
becomes necessary.
So coming across people on the same wavelength when it comes to
TEOTWAWKI is tough.
And that's one of my disadvantages.
The other is getting proficient in firearms.
(Does anyone know about or has gone to the Front Sight FTI?)

Hopefully there's time to get there even though one can never
be truly prepared. We've seen enough of that here and all over
the world. And some have experienced it first hand.

It's a balancing act of PREPARING to survive and actually LIVING.
I hope for the wisdom to know the difference.

[SARKY]

Hey Benesse,
Are you ever going to introduce yourself? It will be alot easier for us to help you out if we know a bit about you ie age, experience, where you live(appartment, condo home etc), what preperations you have already made. Even if you owned a firearm, NYC has one of the toughest gun laws in the country.

[BENESSE]

Sorry, where are my manners!

[remy]

Here are few photos as promised.

-3 first aid kits.
a) Main first aid.
b) Rx water and light proof Hard box.
c) EDC first aid.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000092.jpg


-Here is the EDC first aid.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000093.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000094.jpg

-Rx box

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000095.jpg

-Main first aid

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000096.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000097.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000098.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000099.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000100.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000101.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000102.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000103.jpg



-EDC

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000104.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000105.jpg

[trax]

Nice job Remy, I'll trade ya that first aid kit for...hmmm...I dunno...some French Marine MRE's?

[BENESSE]

Boy Remy, it doesn't get any clearer than that!
Thank you.
I have 80% of the stuff but not as well organized.
(What does EDC stand for)

I started collecting 7 years ago and it's still evolving.
As am I.

[remy]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000108.jpg


http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000110.jpg


http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000111.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000112.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000113.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000114.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000115.jpg

[BENESSE]

Thanks Remy!

I've been wondering whether it's safe to cook indoors
(if gas & electricity are out) without any ventilation--
in case you have to seal the windows etc.
What about stocking RMEs for 6 months?
Or a boatload of hi cal. Datrex bars?

[Rick]

Benesse - You have some preparations already although you may not know you have them. If you live in an apartment, you probably have a 40 gallon hot water heater. If in a home, perhaps a 50 gallon water heater. That's also a fresh water storage tank. Learn where your water shut off is so you can turn the water off to your dwelling if you have to. That way you can ensure your water supply is not contaminated. You will also need to turn the power off to your hot water heater. So you need to know how to do that.

Your hot water heater should have a drain plug on the bottom of it. You can use it to extract the water just like an outside faucet.

The tanks on the back of your toilet can also serve as a water supply assuming you don't put those water treatment thingies in it. It's fresh water coming in.

The rule for bathroom usage is:

If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down.

Kinda grose but gets the point across.

If you look around your home I'll bet you can find all kinds of things you can use if something bad happened.

Have a yardstick? You have a splint. Think multi-use.

[BENESSE]

I totally agree about water.
That part is and has always been non-negotiable for us.
I haven't brought it up because I assumed everyone else felt the same way.
When it comes to food I can exist and function quite well on what most
would consider third world survival.

My biggest concern is unrest and violence.
If you take that away everything else becomes a bit easier to tackle.
Barring of course the obvious. (nuclear, germ, chemical)

[graffixx808]

i think in a big city you should look down as a means to get out.. :)

[Rick]

By the way, Remy. Nice post on the pics!

[BENESSE]

Graffixx808, it really depends on the circumstances.
In my case it would be the last resort when staying in would without a doubt guarantee
misery & death.
I intend to be prepared for either contingency to the best of my ability but some of the more extreme measures as described in the book "Patriot" (which I loved and learned a lot from) are just not realistic for me. My path would have to be different and hopefully just as successful.

[Ken]

I'm guessing that storage space is at a premium for you. Have you considered purchasing a few collapsable water storage bags, which could be filled quickly and otherwise kept collapsed and stored out of sight? Just consider the load bearing capacity of your floors if you choose this option for water storage. Here's one of several sites that offer similar products:

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbags.html

[BENESSE]

Ken, this is a grand idea!
Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?

[crashdive123]

Ken, this is a grand idea!
Never heard of these bags but we could sure use them.
You are right, space is at a premium, (even roaches have pay rent)
and we have to be extremely smart and efficient in what we keep
on hand. Water is a #1 priority of course.

Does anyone know whether store-bought water in sealed jugs can keep indefinitely?
Like distilled, spring, etc? I've noticed on occasion (when I rotate) that some of the plastic jugs & bottles start caving in a bit even though they're stored upright in a dark space. (This would be after a year or so) Seems like the plastic degenerates after a while and I wonder if it's safe.
It is better than nothing, but if it could be made safer, why not?

If your unopened water containers are stored in a cool, dry place they will last for a long time. I rotate my water supply periodically out of an abundance of caution. Ken had a good idea. If you have time, you can fill the stored containers. Of course, having advanced notice is the key. Here's a picture of another type of collapsible container (5 gallon) that is readily available in a variety of stores.

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/catalog/5_gallon_collapsible_water_carrier_350.jpg

[Rick]

You can also keep purification equipment on hand. That could range from bleach to purification tablets, to purification straws or backpacker filters. Lot's of options in this category. It will allow you to convert questionable water into drinking water. None of them will remove heavy metals or salt water but you could use fountains, ponds, bird baths or swimming pools as a fresh water source.

[remy]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000117.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000116.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000118.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000119.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000120.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000121.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000122.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg33/volwest/P1000123.jpg

[SARKY]

Benesse,
Also check out the Camelbak squad pack, it holds 26 liters of water and is designed to be carried as a backpack. If you have to travel to get water or if you have to bug out with as much water as you can carry this is a plus. Camelbak also offers a wide range of hydration backpacks from which you can build your BOB.

[BENESSE]

Huge help everyone!!! LOVE the pics.
Can't thank you enough.
I'll be ordering and testing some options soon.
In a way it's a good thing that we're surrounded
by water. (as long as we don't have to cross it)

P.S. I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.

[SARKY]

Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.

[Rick]

I'm in a high-rise bldg. so no water heaters visible or accessible.

That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.

[SARKY]

Nice job Remy, I'll trade ya that first aid kit for...hmmm...I dunno...some French Marine MRE's?

Are those the ones with the wine ration in them???

[BENESSE]

That could work to your advantage. My guess is your hot water may be coming from a boiler then. That means LOTS of water. You would just need to find out where it is located (basement, maintenance room, etc.) Might be something you could ask the super. Something like, "I've been giving 911 a lot of thought. If we had a similar problem, how do guys control the water and electricity?" kind of thing. "Can you show us?" If you have a building committee perhaps it's something that can be brought forward to them. In any case, if you plan to bug in and something does happen I'd be looking for that tank of water.
That's definitely on my "to do" list--broaching the subject with the Super & the Bldg. Board. Figuring out exactly how as to not scare them into denial is a job in itself.

I am involved in a neighborhood organization and brought up once the idea of shelters
(do we have them, where are they, are the neighbors aware, etc...) and neighborhood preparedness in case of apt. evacuation. They had Red Cross give a talk at a poorly attended meeting, but the idea of community shelters (not the old govt. fallout shelters) was not broached.
The mindset in NYC is just not the same as say in Utah, and in this case, I wish it was.
We need it more than most.

[BENESSE]

Where on the island are you? West side? lower East? These would also determine the viability of getting out of the city. The other question you should ask yourself is which direction would you go. south to Jersey, north east to long island or just north or west? Do you have acess to the roof? This would give you the option of creaitng a rain catch or possibly puting a raised bed garden up there. Just some things to think about. If you had to get out of dodge fast think about which would be the quickest way out. obviously the Linclon, Holland and Queens mid town tunnels will be jammed as will all the bridges. Most people won't head for the ferries until last resort unless this is their normal means of getting in and out of the city. So you go there first. One other thing to look at investing in is one of the kiddie jogging strollers(the ones with the big bicycle wheels) They fold flat, you can push/haul them over rough terrain and use it to transport you survival gear (buldle it up so it looks like you have a kid in there). Most people will help a family with a young child and you won't be targeted as having goodies to steal as you would if you had packs on your back.
I'm on the Upper East.
There are several options of getting out but my problem is that I haven't
figured out my ultimate destination.
Without an end game plan, the idea of just wandering around aimlessly
seems more dangerous (for me personally) than staying put.
My wilderness survival skills are extremely limited and haven't been put to the test.
Urban survival skills have, to some extent.
So at the moment, I have to be intellectually honest about my ability to handle different scenarios. The plans will evolve as my skills do.

[crashdive123]

BENESSE - I was going to suggest that you form some sort of neighborhood watch or coalition in your building. It sounds as though you may have done something like that already. In the event of an emergency, knowing your neighbors and having worked on preparedness plans together will make sheltering in place so much easier than trying to go it alone. Additionally, if it comes to a situation where you must leave, doing so in a small group may give you the added security and resources that might be difficult on your own.

[BENESSE]

Is anyone familiar with or has actually tried Survival Tabs?
http://www.campingsurvival.com/surtabnewcon.html

Their nutritional content and a shelf life of 10+ years
make them a potentially decent addition to MREs, etc.

Is there anything to it or is it just another gimmick?
You guys have been around the block in these matters
a lot longer than I so I trust your opinion.

[crashdive123]

Some people may have tried them, and there may be some benefit to them, but they seem kind of gimmicky to me. I'd go with a good multi-vitamin and real food with a long shelf life.

[Ken]

I've got some in my car and in my packs, along with a bunch of other food and some water pouches. Yep, they are gimmicky. But they taste okay and are better than nothing. And they keep forever.

[Tundrascout]

BENESSE - I was going to suggest that you form some sort of neighborhood watch or coalition in your building... In the event of an emergency, knowing your neighbors and having worked on preparedness plans together will make sheltering in place so much easier than trying to go it alone....

Was just thinking the same thing as I read this thread.
Seems like the first thing people do when the power goes out in an apartment complex is grab a flashlight and head out into the hallway to see what is going on. I cant imagine it would be any different in any other kind of emergency such as an earthquake, flood, etc...

There are always 2 exits/entry points to each floor, and you may want to have someone cover the other one if need be. Also, if you do have limited space and you make friends with a likeminded neighbor, you can cut down on redundent items as a team.

Oh, almost forgot, if you might need to do a river crossing, check out these packs (http://cascadedesigns.com/sealline/packs-and-duffles/pro-pack/product) and some smaller ones (http://cascadedesigns.com/SealLine/Packs-And-Duffles/Boundary-Pack/product) for potential BOBs. They are heavy, but how far does your plan require?

[BENESSE]

LOVE the packs!
Wish I didn't have some already but will definitely consider smaller ones
for indispensable stuff.
As far as neighbors are concerned...well, it's a whole different mindset over here.
And that's what makes my situation more difficult.
People just don't get into that kind of stuff.
Unless there's something imminently brewing, broaching the subject alone
would label me "out there".
So I have to thread lightly and hope for the best.

[SARKY]

Do you have any friends(and I mean friends not just aquaintances) that you can broach the subject with In order to form a group? It might come down to all of you rallying to someone in the groups apartment or house. Then of course you have to think about security. After all you don't want people just wandering through your place taking what they will. If you want a good fiction read on this, I just finished the book Patriots by James Wesley Rawles ISBN 978-1-56975-599-0. Just some things to think about

[BENESSE]

Unfortunately, all my really good friends are several states away,
and ready to jump in. Getting there from NYC would be a challenge.

Actually it's JWR's book "PATRIOTS" that got me going. (his site is terrific as well)
It did make my head spin, I felt humbled and totally out of my league
as far as survival skills go.
I just didn't know how little I knew and that was truly disturbing.
The learning curve is steep, so here I am.

[SARKY]

That is pretty much how I was set up in Maine before I moved out to California. I had a place out in the boonies and we evn had a fall back retreat just incase we really had to lose our selves.

[SARKY]

I really liked the book with a few exceptions. A bit too much religion for my taste and second, I am not a proponent of ammo as a bater item as that could come back and bite you in the arse. I was also surprised that they didn't have more of their shelter below ground for both the warming and cooling properties of the earth during different times of the year.

[BENESSE]

Ditto on both points.

At first I thought that I might as well give up because there's NO way
I could possibly get there (knowledge, skills, etc.) from here.
Then I wondered if I really wanted to.
And finally I came to the conclusion that although surviving is the ultimate goal
(for me personally) it can't come at the expense of actual "living" day to day.
A balanced life is the key and one of the hardest things to achieve.
Practically and philosophically. If you care enough.
It's very seductive to go one way or the other, all the way.
I can imagine the comfort it may offer.
But I can also imagine the missed opportunities.

[SARKY]

It really comes down to the old saying..."when you have lemons, make lemonade or lemon cookies or lemon merangue pie" . Do the best you can with what you have. Keep your mind flexible and adaptable. If bugging in is not a good option research bugging out.

[endurance]

Remy & Benesse, a good book to read for urban dwellers is The Unthinkable: Who survives when disaster strikes by Ripley. Similar to Deep Survival in its discussion of the psychology of survival, but really brings up a lot of situational awareness and understanding of the challenges to urban dwellers. It discusses at lengths on who lived and who died in the WTC on 9/11 and why some people did exactly the wrong thing. If you're going to place yourself in an environment with many human-caused risks with maximum density, it pays to be aware of how humans will react in a crisis.

[Rick]

If bugging out becomes the only option then don't limit yourself to roadways. You said in the first post you don't have a car but it's tempting to use the roads because they make great pathways, but so do to railroads. And I'm sure far less people have considered using them. So they become less congested. At least take some time and find out where the rail lines run to and from so you have another option available to you.

Here is a link with several maps in NY state. Scroll down for lots of maps and additional links.

And don't forget about Google Earth to map out a route. It's an excellent tool!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/maps/

[BENESSE]

Remy & Benesse, a good book to read for urban dwellers is The Unthinkable: Who survives when disaster strikes by Ripley. Similar to Deep Survival in its discussion of the psychology of survival, but really brings up a lot of situational awareness and understanding of the challenges to urban dwellers. It discusses at lengths on who lived and who died in the WTC on 9/11 and why some people did exactly the wrong thing. If you're going to place yourself in an environment with many human-caused risks with maximum density, it pays to be aware of how humans will react in a crisis.

Thanks Endurance, I'm ordering the books right now.
I'm also getting Ragnar's Urban Survival (Remy's recomm.)

One of the best all around wonderful survival reads that I can recommend is
"The Best Adventure and Survival Stories 2003" edited by Nate Hardcastle.

[BENESSE]

If bugging out becomes the only option then don't limit yourself to roadways. You said in the first post you don't have a car but it's tempting to use the roads because they make great pathways, but so do to railroads. And I'm sure far less people have considered using them. So they become less congested. At least take some time and find out where the rail lines run to and from so you have another option available to you.

Here is a link with several maps in NY state. Scroll down for lots of maps and additional links.

And don't forget about Google Earth to map out a route. It's an excellent tool!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/maps/


Thanks Rick, got the map site bookmarked.
I love Google Earth but haven't thought about using it to map out routes.
Another good idea!

[Sourdough]

BENESSE, I hope this thread has a long life. It is putting a face on a real problem with no solution. Well, there is a solution but, no one likes it.

[BENESSE]

BENESSE, I hope this thread has a long life. It is putting a face on a real problem with no solution. Well, there is a solution but, no one likes it.

What's the solution Hope?

[crashdive123]

Hope thinks there are a couple to a few too many people on the planet.

[2dumb2kwit]

Hope thinks there are a couple to a few too many people on the planet.


Weeelllllll......we are the only herd that the weak don't get culled. LOL:innocent:

[BENESSE]

Hope thinks there are a couple to a few too many people on the planet.

I definitely agree with that.
No matter how reasonably one approaches this topic
it's always polarizing.
Can't f with procreation.

[endurance]

I'm also getting Ragnar's Urban Survival (Remy's recomm.)
I have the predecessor, Live Off the Land in the City or Country, which I did enjoy. Getting a good all-arounder book like When Technology Fails by Stein is valuable for a reference, as they cover all sorts of disasters and the solutions to the problems that come with them. My first book all-arounder was Life After Doomsday by Clayton. They all cover the basics of what to store, how to store it, what are the possible scenarios, and how can you come back from it. I like the gardening and alternative energy aspects of Stein's book. It seems more grounded relative to no matter what goes on, smart prepping can save you money on food, help you produce your own food and energy, and looks at a variety of alternatives for heating, etc.

The best thing you could do to put it all together is find a local mentor who's been prepping for a while. Using a site like meet up (http://www.meetup.com/topics/) can help find folks with common interests, whether it's urban gardening, shooting, or emergency preparedness. Just search for meetings in your area or post your own meeting. Once you start putting the feelers out there, it's amazing how fast you can start to network.

[BENESSE]

I have the predecessor, Live Off the Land in the City or Country, which I did enjoy. Getting a good all-arounder book like When Technology Fails by Stein is valuable for a reference, as they cover all sorts of disasters and the solutions to the problems that come with them. My first book all-arounder was Life After Doomsday by Clayton. They all cover the basics of what to store, how to store it, what are the possible scenarios, and how can you come back from it. I like the gardening and alternative energy aspects of Stein's book. It seems more grounded relative to no matter what goes on, smart prepping can save you money on food, help you produce your own food and energy, and looks at a variety of alternatives for heating, etc.

The best thing you could do to put it all together is find a local mentor who's been prepping for a while. Using a site like meet up (http://www.meetup.com/topics/) can help find folks with common interests, whether it's urban gardening, shooting, or emergency preparedness. Just search for meetings in your area or post your own meeting. Once you start putting the feelers out there, it's amazing how fast you can start to network.

Speaking of survival books, my all time, favorite has to be "Shackelton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing.
The story of Shackleton and his crew is pure, basic, awe-inspiring survival--no bells and whistles, no cool gear, nothing but the best of the human spirit beating the odds by sheer will and mental wherewithal.

At times I think I'd rather be stuck in Antarctica than NYC in a weekend gridlock, or a dignitary visiting UN any day of the week.

[Ken]

Speaking of survival books, my all time, favorite has to be "Shackelton's Incredible Voyage" by Alfred Lansing.
The story of Shackleton and his crew is pure, basic, awe-inspiring survival--no bells and whistles, no cool gear, nothing but the best of the human spirit beating the odds by sheer will and mental wherewithal.

At times I think I'd rather be stuck in Antarctica than NYC in a weekend gridlock, or a dignitary visiting UN any day of the week.

A&E put out a boxed videotape (4 tapes) series on the voyage. It's by Kenneth Branagh. AAE-18421.

[BENESSE]

A&E put out a boxed videotape (4 tapes) series on the voyage. It's by Kenneth Branagh. AAE-18421.

I saw it and it's AWESOME.
Not too much creative license, just very real and compelling,
sticking close to the actual narrative.
See it if you can, you WILL be inspired.

[BENESSE]

Another really terrific film is "Snow Walker" (2003).
No one famous in it and no reason you should have heard of it but it's extremely
meaningful to what we're all talking about.
It gets down to the very basic, innate survival skills that Remy brought up
in a separate post--and Remy, if you haven't seen it, I think you'll particularly
appreciate it if I read you correctly.

Some of you who grew up on a farm or hunting and fishing or have been in the armed forces or
law enforcement or spend time hiking and camping in the middle of nowhere might take some of these things for granted.
But the rest of us who are at least aware of what it takes are awed and humbled.

[SARKY]

Benesse, Have you done any camping or hiking? You've got the Delaware water Gap and the Pine Barrens to your south and the Catskills to your NW. I did a lot of camping in the Catskills during the summer of love. I digress, get out there and practice your skills. The key here is to take all the creature comforts with you but try not using them unless you have to. This way you won't be miserable.

[Rick]

You could certainly look up Wild Man Steve Brill's classes in Central Park. That would be an education I'd love to have.

http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/

Click on the 2009 calendar in the left hand menu.

[BENESSE]

You could certainly look up Wild Man Steve Brill's classes in Central Park. That would be an education I'd love to have.

http://www.wildmanstevebrill.com/

Click on the 2009 calendar in the left hand menu.

I'm actually scheduled to take Steve's class in early Aug. and will continue
(in different areas) 'til I can recite it in my sleep.
Being a vegetarian, (I know, I know...) it's bound to make a serious difference.
I've studied the medicinal aspects of plants and have applied some of that knowledge to great success.
But eating off the fat of the land in Central Park would be quite a coup.

Stay tuned.

[SARKY]

Just remember to stay away from plants tht are right next to the roadways, they tend to absorb the exhaust and anything else comming out of the tailpipe.

[BENESSE]

This is a direct quote from http://www.survivalblog.com/index.html

Wednesday July 29 2009
Notes from JWR:

I was recently contacted by a producer for The History Channel who is making a documentary about survivalism. It is an unusual project that will include a subtext docudrama about a family that is fleeing Los Angeles in the midst of a megapandemic. He will be interviewing survivalists in Los Angeles and New York in mid-August. If you live in or near those cities and are willing to do an on-camera interview, please contact Nick Leader, via e-mail.

(The site provides a way to connect to Nick Leader.)

Remy, (just in case you're interested) your involvement would be an asset.

[BENESSE]

Thanks for the thought.
I will check them out.

How are the preps going ?

Thanks for asking, I'm pretty much done with the basics.
Your list and photos as well as many others who were kind enough to respond
was an enormous help. I am sure it will be work in progress until (god-forbid)
I actually have to rely on it.
At this point I am reading all the recommended literature plus some that I stumbled across and find useful to my particular predicament.

As a late-comer to all this I now find myself obsessing over everything, especially my lack of practical skills.
I also think a lot about the balance of "preparing" vs. "living". Where do I draw the line?
There are sacrifices to be sure, unless your time and budget are limitless.
Or you live that kind of life anyway.
Like people who live at their retreats year round, who hunt and fish and backpack or have been in the armed services and law enforcement, etc.

I know I am in a better place than I was a month ago but I am also realistic about what it takes.
It's gonna be a long haul!

[BENESSE]

Quite so on all points Remy.

Human mind has always been the key.
It can get you through most difficult times and it can also f you up
if you are not careful and aware of what it can do.

To that end it is a tool, one that requires life-long practice to master it.

[Rick]

Benesse - I agree with Remy. No need to obsess on any of it. Draw the line between "living" and "survival" where you feel the most comfortable. It gives a good starting point.

Now that you have the "basics" put together you need to exercise your plan to see if it works for you. This can be something very simplified all the way up to a full bug out exercise if that's what you want to do.

You can start by making some assumption. Your apartment building will be without electricity for two days, for example. So pick a week-end and go both days with no electricity. Use only what you have in house to get through. Keep notes about what has been forgotten, needs to be added, would be nice to have and so on. That will give you some idea of whether your supplies fit your needs.

Plans are wonderful things but only theoretical until you test them. The cycle goes something line.


Plan -> Test -> Post Mortem -> Adjust Plan.

Once you've exercised the plan a couple of times then you'll begin to see what you need for you and what you have that you can do without.

Good to see you coming along as well as you are. As Crash says, if it works for you it works for me and it looks like it is working rather well for you!!

[BENESSE]

Benesse - I agree with Remy. No need to obsess on any of it. Draw the line between "living" and "survival" where you feel the most comfortable. It gives a good starting point.

Now that you have the "basics" put together you need to exercise your plan to see if it works for you. This can be something very simplified all the way up to a full bug out exercise if that's what you want to do.

You can start by making some assumption. Your apartment building will be without electricity for two days, for example. So pick a week-end and go both days with no electricity. Use only what you have in house to get through. Keep notes about what has been forgotten, needs to be added, would be nice to have and so on. That will give you some idea of whether your supplies fit your needs.

Plans are wonderful things but only theoretical until you test them. The cycle goes something line.


Plan -> Test -> Post Mortem -> Adjust Plan.

Once you've exercised the plan a couple of times then you'll begin to see what you need for you and what you have that you can do without.

Good to see you coming along as well as you are. As Crash says, if it works for you it works for me and it looks like it is working rather well for you!!


A weekend bug-in drill w/o electricity is a terrific idea!
Especially now when it's hot & humid.

Last weekend I walked 3 miles with my 20lb backpack on just as a start.
Glad I did since there were some gear snags I definitely wouldn't want to face "when the film is rolling".

Next trek will be longer with new hiking boots on.

The fun has just begun.

[Rick]

Just don't get sick over the humidity and make sure you break those hiking boots in BEFORE you do the trek. Wear them around the house if you have to. Painful feet are no fun. And be sure you have some blister meds like mole skin and some duct tape. Duct tape is great if you start having a hot spot. Apply a piece directly to the foot and hike on!

[Winnie]

I was looking around and found this

http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Survival-Handbook-Lofty-Wiseman/dp/1602392161/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1250079987&sr=8-4

Thought it might help those in an urban situation. Think it could be a very useful addition to anyone considering bugging in, including me.

[BENESSE]

I was looking around and found this

http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Survival-Handbook-Lofty-Wiseman/dp/1602392161/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1250079987&sr=8-4

Thought it might help those in an urban situation. Think it could be a very useful addition to anyone considering bugging in, including me.

Thanks, I'll definitely check it out.
I am currently reading Ragnar's Urban Survival (Remy's recommendation)
which gives some very practical advice.
All in all, I do find that for every answered question I have five more that aren't.
Being in a big city like say, Denver is one thing. Being in NYC with a bull's eye on it is quite another. It's tough enough when it rains or some big cheese is visiting the UN or when there's a Puerto Rican Day parade
(or you-name-it-day parade) passing by your front door.
One can only imagine other scenarios and prey they don't happen while you are taking the subway to work. The only thing worse would be being a tourist WTSHTF.

[SARKY]

Hey Benesse, How close are you to the Brooklynn Bridge?

[BENESSE]

Hey Benesse, How close are you to the Brooklynn Bridge?

Not very.
Much closer to Qeensboro or Triborough.

[Rick]

The folks in Oklahoma City and Portland probably felt that way, too, Benesse. More apt to happen in New York than here. I'm not certain any place is safe today. Certainly not from accidents much less idiots bent on causing destruction.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i experienced a week of no power in michigan after an ice storm. the situation was real and we closed up ourselves into the smallest room we hung blankets from the windows to insulate out the cold. we burned oil candles (the ones i teach how to use) and we cooked on a oil stove too. we melted ice for water.

[SARKY]

Have you looked into greening your roof? That is provided you have acess to it. You can always use the the excuse that it is enviromentally sound. Even if you can't turn the whole roof green, a couple of raised beds would supply some fresh veggies. Barring that, are there any parks near you? You could always drop some seeds in the ground and see what happens.

[Rick]

Here, here on the roof. Great idea, Sarky. Not only will it lower the costs in the building by cooling it you'll have some fresh greens and 'maters.

[BENESSE]

Have you looked into greening your roof? That is provided you have acess to it. You can always use the the excuse that it is enviromentally sound. Even if you can't turn the whole roof green, a couple of raised beds would supply some fresh veggies. Barring that, are there any parks near you? You could always drop some seeds in the ground and see what happens.

I'm afraid no roof on the bldg.--at least not the kind you can get on.
However, there are several parks nearby, the biggest being Central Park (the size of a country of Monaco)
There's a tour being given periodically on edible plants of Central Park which I intend to take next month.
Also two rivers east and west, and the ocean on the southern tip.
Could be worse.

[Rick]

Balcony, perhaps? Some container plants could go there. You could also see if there is a community garden nearby.

[BENESSE]

Balcony, perhaps? Some container plants could go there. You could also see if there is a community garden nearby.

No balconies that I have access to, but I suppose I can always
start growing some mushrooms in a closet.
You know the kind where you buy a log water it, and watch 'em grow.
(no kidding, that's what the ads say) Herb Chia Pets, maybe?

Also no community gardens anywhere reasonably close.

I'm just hoping there's enough in Central Park to see us through 'til we can
bail out to Fiji.

[SARKY]

Fiji.....how are you going to get to Fiji? and there is the matter of rising ocean levels, will Fiji still be above sea level? In looking at a map of the area, you are between a rock and a hard pace! I mean looking at your options, Queens? who wants to bug out to Queens? Brooklyn isn't much better. If you could make it out to long island.. around Port Jefferson, at least there is farm land there. Having grown up in North Bergen I would opt for the jersey side of the Hudson. the east side of the palisades is still rough country in places with plenty of game. the west side of the palisades is the swamps (meadowlands for you foo foo types) Plus there is Hudson County park. The problem with Central Park is the population density around it.

[BENESSE]

Fiji.....how are you going to get to Fiji? and there is the matter of rising ocean levels, will Fiji still be above sea level? In looking at a map of the area, you are between a rock and a hard pace! I mean looking at your options, Queens? who wants to bug out to Queens? Brooklyn isn't much better. If you could make it out to long island.. around Port Jefferson, at least there is farm land there. Having grown up in North Bergen I would opt for the jersey side of the Hudson. the east side of the palisades is still rough country in places with plenty of game. the west side of the palisades is the swamps (meadowlands for you foo foo types) Plus there is Hudson County park. The problem with Central Park is the population density around it.

I was just fantasizing about Fiji.
In all seriousness, if we had to bail out it would make most sense to head out
to New Jersey and go south. At least in the "south" we know folks.
Thing is, you just can't show up on someone else's turf and expect them to roll out the welcome mat. On the other hand, we're not equipped to hoof it around the eastern seaboard on foot indefinitely. And as of now we have no end game. Yet.

I am less concerned about leaving NY if the rest of the country is OK.
If the scenario is right out of James Wesley Rawls' "Patriots", then god help us. I'm gonna need more time to figure that one out.

This prep stuff is turning into a full time job, y'all!

[SARKY]

Speaking of "Patriots" I had a sweet resource when I was stationed in Maine. A bunch of us were going to head up to our traing facility in the Rangley lakes region. Plenty of firewood, game, water and an open field to plant veggies. not to mention several buildings in which to live. Only one road in and that could easily be blocked. Now I have to deal with a city, not as congested as NYC but just as dangerous.

[rebel]

After reading the thread I was impressed w/ a couple of Remy's posts. He seems to have give this scenario thought and preparation.

IMO, if it's a localized disaster then a couple weeks of food and water would work until aide was provided (NOLA). If it's an end of the world event, we'll share rat recipes. I think banding with others for survival would eventually happen.

[wareagle69]

a little to the left of this topic but, hope and i a long while ago had discussed house boats and sailboats, i still think this would be awesome, and yes then the topic of piracy came up, but really think about it, not many know how to run a boat or sail and why would you spend your time and energy sailing the ocean blue or the vast wilderness when most of the food and water will be in the cities

[Ken]

Now you have me thinking. :innocent: There's a pretty good houseboat about two miles from my house.....

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles24722.jpg

[BENESSE]

After reading the thread I was impressed w/ a couple of Remy's posts. He seems to have give this scenario thought and preparation.

IMO, if it's a localized disaster then a couple weeks of food and water would work until aide was provided (NOLA). If it's an end of the world event, we'll share rat recipes. I think banding with others for survival would eventually happen.

I would feel much better about everything if the city/state was
more on the ball regarding serious emergency preparedness and
letting the residents in on it.
Conducting an occasional city wide drill and putting out info on what to do
in ANY contingency would be a good start.
This idea of "not scaring people off" by talking about something so vital to their existence is beyond irresponsible and it's what keeps me awake at night.

[SARKY]

The best you can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best! So many Americans are just plain asleep at the switch. Don't be one of them!

[BENESSE]

Speaking of preparing for the worst...
Has anyone heard anything (good or bad) about "Front Sight" in Las Vegas?
Any personal experience with them?

[SARKY]

One of my friends went to Front Sight about 5 years ago, he said it was great! He has family in Henderson so he stayed with them during the class.

[TucsonMax]

This prep stuff is turning into a full time job, y'all!

You can say that again!

[BENESSE]

2 birds with one stone on the road to preparedness, the NYC style. :winkiss:
http://www.urbanescapesnyc.com/index.php/trips/detail/shootin_drinkin/1353

[Sourdough]

2 birds with one stone on the road to preparedness, the NYC style. :winkiss:
http://www.urbanescapesnyc.com/index.php/trips/detail/shootin_drinkin/1353


Are you going......? The agenda sounds like Saturday at the Alaskan Jamboree.

[Justin Case]

2 birds with one stone on the road to preparedness, the NYC style. :winkiss:
http://www.urbanescapesnyc.com/index.php/trips/detail/shootin_drinkin/1353

Alcohol and Guns do not mix, The two should never meet !

[BENESSE]

Alcohol and Guns do not mix, The two should never meet !

That's not what I hear from our Alaskan brethren and they are still around and kicking.

[BENESSE]

Are you going......? The agenda sounds like Saturday at the Alaskan Jamboree.

See, we know how to chillax and blow off some steam in a constructive way. Thought you might approve. Now all I gotta do is talk Mr. B into it.

[crashdive123]

Step one: Bullets down range.

Step two: Evaluate accuracy of shooting.

Step three: Consume a fine Scotch or Whiskey.

Step four: Re-evaluate accuracy of shooting. Some things just get better with age.

[Sourdough]

Step one: Bullets down range.

Step two: Evaluate accuracy of shooting.

Step three: Consume a fine Scotch or Whiskey.

Step four: Re-evaluate accuracy of shooting. Some things just get better with age.


STEP FIVE: "Repeat steps 3 & 4"

[crashdive123]

STEP FIVE: "Repeat steps 3 & 4"

By the end of the day there are probably a lot more "tack drivers" than at the start of the day.

[Justin Case]

Step 6,

Pull a Dick Cheney and accidenty shoot your buddy :innocent:

[Sourdough]

Step 6,

Pull a Dick Cheney and accidenty shoot your buddy :innocent:''


The Firearms are put away after step #2 is completed, and before step #3 is started.

[Sourdough]

Step 6,

Pull a Dick Cheney and accidenty shoot your buddy :innocent:



He was a LAWYER.....Right.....????:innocent:

[BENESSE]

He was a LAWYER.....Right.....????:innocent:

Yes he was AND a big campaign contributor.
Fortunately it was birdshot pellets only.

[Sourdough]

Yes he was AND a big campaign contributor.
Fortunately it was birdshot pellets only.



But STILL, He was a LAWYER..........:)

[BENESSE]

But STILL, He was a LAWYER..........:)

And Cheney was a Dick........:)

[Aurelius95]

And Cheney was a Dick........:)

That, there, is funny, I don't care who you are (or who you voted for)!

[AirborneEagles]

Cheney should have claimed it was self defense against a Lawyer.
His ratings would have gone up and nobody would have thought any different.
=)

[Kosuki]

For bugging in remember this, If you bug in your reinforced door is only as strong as your walls. If you live in a apart ment and have a reinforced door, ya they may not be able to get in through the door but a good ax and sledge will break through that drywall, wall of yours real easy. As for a water supply get some 55gal barrels and fill them up. Remember to use water preservative so it stays good. I know NYC has laws even tighter then California for handguns. Get a good pump action 12gauge for defense. Also have a backup escape route. If you live on like a 10th story of a apartment building have a fast deploy rope off your balcony or out of a window to repel down if you had to leave due to a invasion or if the building caught fire(make sure rope is long enough ^^) Also try to get non thirst quenching foods so you can ration water. Also if you live in a apt. building and you have access to the basement see if their is a manhole cover in the basement to access the water tunnels/sewage if you had to get out quietly. Their is alot to bugging in and it can take weeks,months, even years to be 100% prepared. I am sure everyone on here is more than willing to help you prepare and to do it right.

[SARKY]

Kosuki, Using the tunnels and sewers in NYC would be a bad idea as in a disaster where power is lost, they will flood quickly. The most important knowledge is to know your environment and all it's quirks.

[hunter63]

I'm just glad I don't live in NYC.....great for some I suppose.....

[Rick]

Popping the cover on a manhole is not just a simple trick. There is often gasoline that has peculated into the manhole from nearby gas stations, it could be full of hydrogen sulfide, nasty stuff, or other unsavory chemicals. We were required to take measurements prior to popping the lid and then the first thing inside was a fresh air blower. After 10 minutes of that we would enter if it wasn't full of water.

[Kosuki]

Popping the cover on a manhole is not just a simple trick. There is often gasoline that has peculated into the manhole from nearby gas stations, it could be full of hydrogen sulfide, nasty stuff, or other unsavory chemicals. We were required to take measurements prior to popping the lid and then the first thing inside was a fresh air blower. After 10 minutes of that we would enter if it wasn't full of water.


Ok so water system is not a good idea in NYC... LOL

[BENESSE]

Crawling through the seweres of NYC wouldn't rank high on my list unless my life directly depended on it and the subway tunnels are dangerous unless you have a good sense of where you are and where the various exits are. If there is any electricity no matter how sporadic, you risk being electrocuted on the third rail. You risk flood, smoke, fire and the criminal element. I prefer the idea of sticking to rooftops, back alleys & fire escapes.

[BENESSE]

I'm just glad I don't live in NYC.....great for some I suppose.....

See, that's what I say about folks who go on multiple tours to Iraq & Afghanistan. I guess someone has to do it.

[hunter63]

Well, God bless you for putting up with it,.... and taking your time, to discuss your take on surviving the big city......a point of view and experiance that most of us would never have, if we should ever find ourselves in big cities.

[Kosuki]

Well, God bless you for putting up with it,.... and taking your time, to discuss your take on surviving the big city......a point of view and experiance that most of us would never have, if we should ever find ourselves in big cities.

Only problem I have with roof tops is
1. You are sniper bait to higher roof tops.
2. If you are highest roof top you are now the biggest target in the city.
3. Roof tops will be very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter. That is my input on that ^^
Good idea though. Roof top offers alot of great advantages like
1. POV advantage over a great distance .
2. Signaling help.
3. Heli pad
4. solar cells can be placed on roof tops.
5 ETC, ETC, ETC...

^^

[BENESSE]

The SHTF scenario most likely to happen here wouldn't bring out snipers on roof tops as much as panicked crowds trying to get out, looters and a traffic nightmare of collosal proportions.
Moving from rooftop to rooftop (where possible) and utilizing fire escapes, makes more sense. You just have to know the lay of the land (buildings, streets, blocks) same as any other place.

[crashdive123]

Moving from rooftop to rooftop (where possible)

Ahhhh - fond memories of being out past curfew in Korea. You can make it to your hotel (fifteen blocks away) by going rooftop to rooftop.

[SARKY]

Yes those were fond memories. I also remember the first night after midnite curfew was lifted in the PI. What a party that was!

[SARKY]

I have to ask, Kosuki, have you ever lived in a modern big city?

[jerrynj]

Bugging in may not be possible depending on the event. I am originally from New Jersey and I have thought about bugout possibilities for NYC. I could imagine things getting really nastey with such a huge population on a small island. My idea is by kayak. They even make collapsable kayaks for easy apartment storage. They can hold much gear too...More then enough. You can even keep a wetsuit handy for the winter. I was trying to enter a link but keep getting errors. a site to check out is oru kayak.

[Rick]

You don't have 10 posts yet so you are not allowed to post a link without it going to moderation. It's just one of the ways we keep a handle on spam. Once you reach 10 posts you won't have a problem.

[jerrynj]

You don't have 10 posts yet so you are not allowed to post a link without it going to moderation. It's just one of the ways we keep a handle on spam. Once you reach 10 posts you won't have a problem.

Makes sense....4 more posts to go hahahaah

[Wildthang]

Nessie, the best advice I could gie you is to get out before stuff hits the fan. Study and learn the signs, and get out when things don't feel right. Go to a friends house far away from NYC and hang out until you know it is safe to return, and if not, just don't go back. As smart as you are, I would think that recognizing the signs would be easy for you, and I think you will naturally know when the day comes. It is my opinion that the only way to survive where you are is to not be there.
Heck, come this way and you can hang with us!

[Wise Old Owl]

If your unopened water containers are stored in a cool, dry place they will last for a long time. I rotate my water supply periodically out of an abundance of caution. Ken had a good idea. If you have time, you can fill the stored containers. Of course, having advanced notice is the key. Here's a picture of another type of collapsible container (5 gallon) that is readily available in a variety of stores.

http://www.disasterstuff.com/store/pc/catalog/5_gallon_collapsible_water_carrier_350.jpg

As always better stuff comes out - these get pin holes in the corners too quickly so I take a pass on these now. Yes collapsable was great but buying one today is quickly returned tomorrow. As a "bug in" I use 5 gallon water bottles in storage and other plans. So I am open to better containers that are portable.

Here is one Idea (https://www.containerandpackaging.com/item/H022?source=googlepla&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20Campaign%20Proposal&utm_term=1100200839305&utm_content=All%20Products%20in%20Breakdown)

[Rick]

If you have a filter then a Platypus Water Tank is pretty handy. I have one of those and two 2 liter Platy collapsible water bottles. This, of course, is going to be governed by how many people you are trying to support. For just me, I can filter up quite a bit of water in a short time.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41fo6-qaTWL._SX450_.jpg

http://www.rei.com/media/product/617926

[crashdive123]

As always better stuff comes out - these get pin holes in the corners too quickly so I take a pass on these now. Yes collapsable was great but buying one today is quickly returned tomorrow. As a "bug in" I use 5 gallon water bottles in storage and other plans. So I am open to better containers that are portable.

Here is one Idea (https://www.containerandpackaging.com/item/H022?source=googlepla&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20Campaign%20Proposal&utm_term=1100200839305&utm_content=All%20Products%20in%20Breakdown)

In the seven years that have passed since I have posted that, it has not leaked or developed any pin holes. A few of the Aquataners that I have have developed issues though.

[NJHeart2Heart]

I'm on the Upper East.
There are several options of getting out but my problem is that I haven't
figured out my ultimate destination.
Without an end game plan, the idea of just wandering around aimlessly
seems more dangerous (for me personally) than staying put.
My wilderness survival skills are extremely limited and haven't been put to the test.
Urban survival skills have, to some extent.
So at the moment, I have to be intellectually honest about my ability to handle different scenarios. The plans will evolve as my skills do.

Kudos to you for being honest about your skills and lack thereof. That you know that information and that you are asking for help to bridge those gaps is half the battle. The other half is accomplishing your goals one item at a time. As a suburban New Jerseyan I understand your concerns after 9-11, and that has been part of my motivation to become more prepared as well. No advice, just encouragement to keep asking the questions and know that there are others of us that are learning a lot from your questions and the community's answers!

[NJHeart2Heart]

Fiji.....how are you going to get to Fiji? and there is the matter of rising ocean levels, will Fiji still be above sea level? In looking at a map of the area, you are between a rock and a hard pace! I mean looking at your options, Queens? who wants to bug out to Queens? Brooklyn isn't much better. If you could make it out to long island.. around Port Jefferson, at least there is farm land there. Having grown up in North Bergen I would opt for the jersey side of the Hudson. the east side of the palisades is still rough country in places with plenty of game. the west side of the palisades is the swamps (meadowlands for you foo foo types) Plus there is Hudson County park. The problem with Central Park is the population density around it.

First time I've really APPRECIATED being in New Jersey...at least in relative terms to NYC... no offense to Benesse... but I'm GLAD I'm in Morris County! But then again, when you've lived any particular place a long time, you learn skills that are adapted to that particular place.. for me, it's suburban..for Benesse, it's the city.. I'd not live long at all in the city, even without a disaster!

[Lamewolf]

BOBIH ! That's "Bugout Before It Happens" ! Man I shiver to think being stuck in a place like NYC if the SHTF events take place. I come from a small town of less than 15000 people but no longer live there because I don't like living in the city, couldn't even fathom living in a jungle like NYC`! So I say, get out while you can if its at all possible !

[hunter63]

Seems many are more comfortable running to the wilderness for safety and shelter.....
Many will try to "get back to the city" for the same reasons.

"B's" views and planning are quite different than many people would expect or picture in the minds.....and was very interesting for a lot of people.
Kinda wish she would stop by more often.

[Rick]

Where is she anyway.

[crashdive123]

New York City.

[kyratshooter]

She has not posted anything in a month.

Hope she did not get mugged and thrown in the gutter!

[Rick]

Not with the knives she carries! Yea, Yea, New York. I just haven't seen her around. Just hoping she's okay.

[LowKey]

Wasn't she really busy doing production shoots or some type of show biz thing? I live life on the periphery of that field and there are times you can barely get up for air for months at a time.

[Michael aka Mac]

Depending on what specific SHTF I'll most likely need
to stay put because I don't have a car & have nowhere to go really.
Fighting the crowds on foot on the way off the island
wouldn't be too wise--I've been around during 9/11 and that's
merely a taste of what could be in store if anything more serious
was to take place.
(The movie "I Am Legend" depicts the bugging out madness pretty well)

No matter how well prepared I am I'll need to band together with
like minded people if there's a prayer of survival and defending
against the criminal element.

I haven't seen any posts or even articles anywhere about
this particular predicament (staying put in a huge city)
beyond suggestions of getting out.

Any thoughts/suggestions from anyone? Seriously.


SO curious, it is going on 13 years now since you had originally posted this... What changes to your inventory, mind set, and any training or preparedness have you done since this was originally posted?

[BENESSE]

SO curious, it is going on 13 years now since you had originally posted this... What changes to your inventory, mind set, and any training or preparedness have you done since this was originally posted?

I've come a long ways since then and got as far as humanly possible given the state and city challenges. But the most important prep of all was actually bugging out of NY after 32 years.

Only 8 months later, and I still can't believe how liberating it is to live in the real world. Some things are admittedly harder though, like having to drive anywhere we need to go, endless traffic, accessible first rate medical care, etc. Still...nothing beats the peace of mind and a feeling of safety that comes from living among like minded people.

[crashdive123]

I've come a long ways since then and got as far as humanly possible given the state and city challenges. But the most important prep of all was actually bugging out of NY after 32 years.

Only 8 months later, and I still can't believe how liberating it is to live in the real world. Some things are admittedly harder though, like having to drive anywhere we need to go, endless traffic, accessible first rate medical care, etc. Still...nothing beats the peace of mind and a feeling of safety that comes from living among like minded people.

Glad to see that you made the move.

[yellowcab]

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цвет (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/136145)scre (http://gascautery.ru/t/181241)Rond (http://gashbucket.ru/t/96335)вепа (http://gasreturn.ru/t/247530)XVII (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/284891)Шала (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/661176)Kons (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/659238)Tefa (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/396038)Niko (http://geartreating.ru/t/565593)Вьет (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/293177)Herd (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/449296)Anka (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558317)�ерт (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/137628)реда (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138244)Kiri (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137298)
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[yellowcab]

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Форм (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82067)Матв (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/82759)Трав (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/483964)Бата (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/494803)Форм (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/184617)Fran (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/614451)топ- (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/228402)Цвет (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/247802)Char (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/387767)hair (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/406018)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Ð*озе (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/457272)Петр (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/471042)

[yellowcab]

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knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

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