View Full Version : Self-test #3
Sarge47
05-24-2009, 11:56 AM
#3 is the "Group Scenario". You are on a bus going through the Rocky Mountains. You have your BOB with all the gear you'd normally take! You've also took along a book which reading, has mad you sleepy. So, along with the rhythm of the bus you fall asleep. While snoozing, the driver has taken some obscure short-cut known only to him, however, it's been quite awhile since he's traveled it and the road is not in the best shape, certainly not able to handle a fully loaded 16 ton bus. Then it happens! You are rudely awakened to the scene of a bus going off the road & down a steep incline, only to land on it's side at the bottom of the incline. People are screaming, yelling, & crying. You grab your gear & kick out a side window which is also marked as an emergency exit. Your 1st impulse is to "beat feet" outta there, but your not sure if you could face criminal charges for doing so. It seems you may have read somewhere that leaving the scene of an accident without staying to render aid is considered a criminal offense. So you go looking for the driver, who you spot halfway up the incline impaled by a large tree branch. Also it appears that there may be some fatalities inside the bus you just left...what do you do!:cool2:
Wow, your first impulse is to run?
My first impulse is to help those in need, asses the situation, and take action.
But then I've never been much on beating feet and abandoning people.
doug1980
05-24-2009, 01:36 PM
First make sure I am ok. Then do what I can for the others.
crashdive123
05-24-2009, 03:59 PM
Call for help (cell phone or bus comm system) Start helping those that need it. Keep everybody as calm as possible. Find out what talent and skills are available (medical, etc.) Have the healthy look after others. Gather all available gear. Tend to the dead when the living have been taken care of.
doren
05-25-2009, 10:28 AM
First, find out if the CB or anyone's cellphone works. Tend to the injured. After the people that need attention have received it. Find a quit place nearby and go back to sleep. Wait for help to arrive.
Triage - If there are slightly injured or uninjured I'd ask them to get on the radio and/or cell phone and call it in. Quickly organize any remaining uninjured to assist. Perform triage to determine extent of injuries. Treat the worst first (profuse bleeding, etc). Apply compression on bleeding and perhaps hand off to someone assisting so I can move to the others.
I'm going to assume it will take some time to be found since we're on some obscure road. That will probably mean making the injured as comfortable as possible. Shock and fear are probably going to be a couple of enemies and the sight of dead bodies is not going to help so they may have to be moved to the other side of bus or out of eyesight. Just depends on situation. Break out gear from BOB to keep shock victims warm (fleece) attend to hydration as needed. We might even have to build a fire if the rescue extends into night time.
Cell phones dont get a signal in the Rockies.
Tend to the injured, gather broken mirrors for signaling for help, try to salvage the batteries and wire any lights that can be salvaged, build three fires to signal for help, use the bus as shelter if in a mild climate or raining, look for water sources, and slap the heck out of the ones that are panicking:)
As Pal would say, "You, you and you panic....the rest come with me."
Rick's response, Triage, and everything that followed, was right on the money.
Remember, clothing makes a pretty good improvised compress and bandage.
You would probably never get charged criminally if you took off to find help, but that thought wouldn't even cross my mind until everyone was stabilized as much as possible.
Question - is anyone else well enough to assist you?
Remember, clothing makes a pretty good improvised compress and bandage.
Just leave my underwear alone, I have mine marked during the crash
Sarge47
05-25-2009, 11:06 PM
The very 1st thing, of course, is to make sure that you're ok & we're assuming that you've came through it without a scratch. But to be honest there was the very next thing I was looking for & nobody's mentioned it yet.:cool2:
mcfd45
05-26-2009, 12:16 AM
Triage - If there are slightly injured or uninjured I'd ask them to get on the radio and/or cell phone and call it in. Quickly organize any remaining uninjured to assist. Perform triage to determine extent of injuries. Treat the worst first (profuse bleeding, etc). Apply compression on bleeding and perhaps hand off to someone assisting so I can move to the others.
I'm going to assume it will take some time to be found since we're on some obscure road. That will probably mean making the injured as comfortable as possible. Shock and fear are probably going to be a couple of enemies and the sight of dead bodies is not going to help so they may have to be moved to the other side of bus or out of eyesight. Just depends on situation. Break out gear from BOB to keep shock victims warm (fleece) attend to hydration as needed. We might even have to build a fire if the rescue extends into night time.
A big +1 for ricks plan. If you don't know how to do a triage here is a quick and easy way even for non medically trained people. Find a place where everybody can here you. Yell to them saying if they think they can move head over to that tree, rock, car, building. The ones that move are your priority 3 patients they will require less help and are referred to as walking wounded. next yell to those left and tell them to wave or lift their leg towards the sky. These are your priority 2 patients, they have medical conditions that may progress to deadly if they don't get to a hospital. Then you are left with your priority one patients, these people have life threatening injuries that need immediate first aid. Now you may have some 3s that are honestly 1s but it is a good start.
mcfd45
05-26-2009, 12:17 AM
The very 1st thing, of course, is to make sure that you're ok & we're assuming that you've came through it without a scratch. But to be honest there was the very next thing I was looking for & nobody's mentioned it yet.:cool2:
Fuel spill?
Sarge47
05-26-2009, 12:29 AM
Fuel spill?Nope!:cool2:
mcfd45
05-26-2009, 12:46 AM
Why did we crash? were we run off the road intentionally and do i have to worry about them coming back?
Sarge47
05-26-2009, 12:51 AM
Why did we crash? were we run off the road intentionally and do i have to worry about them coming back?Only the driver knows, & he's dead; however that was not a consideration here, just the after-math!:cool2:
Question - is anyone else well enough to assist you?
Again I'll ask, is anyone else well enough to assist you at the scene or to summon help?
Sarge47
05-26-2009, 01:00 AM
Again I'll ask, is anyone else well enough to assist you at the scene or to summon help?I suppose so, but that's not the answer I'm looking for!:cool2:
I suppose so, but that's not the answer I'm looking for!:cool2:
Sorry, I'm wiped. Time for bed. I'll let the next shift take this run.
I suppose so, but that's not the answer I'm looking for!:cool2:
Are you talking about situation command here? How would I get everyone to cooperate? That's usually fairly simple, but it goes back to my original question, and that is whether or not anyone is well enough to assist you.
If so, you ask if anyone has had any training. You can probably make this determination just by observing for a few seconds. If so, enlist their cooperation. As to others who have no training but are okay, simply request their help with certain tasks. I've been in several such situations. Almost immediately, people will start asking you what you want them to do next. Taking command in such a scenario just comes naturally once the initial surprise wears off on the folks around you.
If you remain calm, people, except for a few, will seek out leadership from those who are qualified and confident enough to take charge and make decisions.
DOGMAN
05-26-2009, 09:30 PM
First ...
Survey the scene. Are we all in a safe spot to prevent more injuries. If not move everyone to safety
then begin triage
Sarge47
05-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Are you talking about situation command here? How would I get everyone to cooperate? That's usually fairly simple, but it goes back to my original question, and that is whether or not anyone is well enough to assist you.
If so, you ask if anyone has had any training. You can probably make this determination just by observing for a few seconds. If so, enlist their cooperation. As to others who have no training but are okay, simply request their help with certain tasks. I've been in several such situations. Almost immediately, people will start asking you what you want them to do next. Taking command in such a scenario just comes naturally once the initial surprise wears off on the folks around you.
If you remain calm, people, except for a few, will seek out leadership from those who are qualified and confident enough to take charge and make decisions.Yep! This time you nailed it! Now while there are some folks on here that are probably natural leaders, there are those that are likely to have some "No-Nothing Numpty" who'd get lost in their own bedroom & faint dead away if they even get a scratch getting all up in their face asking: "Hey! Who died & left you in charge!" Or: "Who elected you leader!" You should not just "assume" leadership, that everybody's just going to follow your lead, especially in a large group! Remember, this is a "self-teaching" exam, not "pass-fail". It's here to help you think of EVERY possible thing that might come up in any given situation, weather it be solo, with a partner, or in a group where nobody knows you. I have no problem at all believing any one of you are capable of doing just what you said......but I ain't on that bus. It's something that I think we should consider.:cool2:
Ken, I don't know buddy, check it out!:cool2:
jrock24
05-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Are you talking about situation command here? How would I get everyone to cooperate? That's usually fairly simple, but it goes back to my original question, and that is whether or not anyone is well enough to assist you.
If so, you ask if anyone has had any training. You can probably make this determination just by observing for a few seconds. If so, enlist their cooperation. As to others who have no training but are okay, simply request their help with certain tasks. I've been in several such situations. Almost immediately, people will start asking you what you want them to do next. Taking command in such a scenario just comes naturally once the initial surprise wears off on the folks around you.
If you remain calm, people, except for a few, will seek out leadership from those who are qualified and confident enough to take charge and make decisions.
This IS triage, isn't that what Risk originaly posted?
Yelling out load for survivors and who can get up is the first part of triage.
COWBOYSURVIVAL
05-27-2009, 02:13 PM
The very 1st thing, of course, is to make sure that you're ok & we're assuming that you've came through it without a scratch. But to be honest there was the very next thing I was looking for & nobody's mentioned it yet.:cool2:
Could it be to cut the engine off?
Sarge47
05-27-2009, 07:16 PM
This IS triage, isn't that what Risk originaly posted?
Yelling out load for survivors and who can get up is the first part of triage.What guarantee do you have that anybody will listen to you? You 1st have to establish authority/leadership BEFOREHAND!:cool2:
DOGMAN
05-27-2009, 08:05 PM
What guarantee do you have that anybody will listen to you? You 1st have to establish authority/leadership BEFOREHAND!:cool2:
I see what your saying. However, I would refine it and say its not "establsihing authority/leadership" its more defining level of training.
Unfortunatly, I've been involved in several triage situations and wilderness emergencies, and when its going down, You shout out your level of training and other trained individuals also do the same- then the person with the most training and experience takes over.
DOGMAN
05-27-2009, 08:08 PM
This IS triage, isn't that what Risk originaly posted?
Yelling out load for survivors and who can get up is the first part of triage.
Actually, the first part of responding to any emergency is establishing that the scene is safe.
Sarge47
05-27-2009, 08:09 PM
Actually, the first part of responding to any emergency is establishing that the scene is safe.Okay, that's true.:cool2:
Sarge47
05-27-2009, 08:10 PM
I see what your saying. However, I would refine it and say its not "establsihing authority/leadership" its more defining level of training.
Unfortunatly, I've been involved in several triage situations and wilderness emergencies, and when its going down, You shout out your level of training and other trained individuals also do the same- then the person with the most training and experience takes over.Maybe yes, maybe no. Sometimes there's always the clown who challenges leadership! I say it's something to think about, anyway.:cool2:
crashdive123
05-27-2009, 08:14 PM
This may not translate well into a scenario that involves civilians - but it may.... Submarine casualty training - the "first responder" with the most experience would announce to all (loudly) that they were in charge. As more senior, or more experienced people arrived on the scene they might take charge at the scene (they might not if things are under control), but not without first being briefed by the current leader. In a casualty, I believe that people (not all) are looking for leadership. After the flurry of the initial crisis passes this may pass. In my recent vehicle mishap I didn't make any announcements, but I did "bark out" a few orders. There was no resistance - maybe because I was calm and seemed to know what I was doing.
DOGMAN
05-27-2009, 08:22 PM
Maybe yes, maybe no. Sometimes there's always the clown who challenges leadership! I say it's something to think about, anyway.:cool2:
I agree...what I've seen happen is someone who is a young, recent first-time cert. EMT/basic show-up on a scene, and start trying to take control, and not realize that the First Responder that he is trying to give orders to has been trained and doing this type of stuff for 20 years. Usually, though the new cert, gets to a point of questioning thereself and will back-off and let the most competent person direct stuff.
Being the most certified doesnt make one the most competent.
However, technically speaking the most highly trained person is supposed to be in charge.
catfish10101
05-28-2009, 12:33 AM
1. Make sure the scene is safe (not going to blow up)
2. Disconnect the battery if you can to prevent fire, if fuel is leaking, you may have to move the injured to a safe distance away
3. check to see if there are others who are not hurt badly that can help with injured
4. Give aid to those who need it.
5. if no communication for help can be made, decide who would be best to go for help and who is best to stay.
jrock24
05-29-2009, 10:58 AM
What guarantee do you have that anybody will listen to you? You 1st have to establish authority/leadership BEFOREHAND!:cool2:
So then before you start do anything your going to ask who has the most training?
The first rule of emergency aid is to inform the person you are attempting to help that you are trained and ask if they would like your help. So to me it does not make sence to ask everyone who has training and what extent you have, before triage.
mcfd45
05-29-2009, 09:23 PM
so you yell out does anybody have medical trainging. The highest license wins.
LowKey
05-29-2009, 09:33 PM
When you disconnect that battery, be sure you don't short it and cause the very problem you are trying to avert. ;)
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yellowcab
01-26-2026, 11:58 AM
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yellowcab
01-26-2026, 11:59 AM
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yellowcab
05-01-2026, 01:30 AM
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yellowcab
05-01-2026, 01:31 AM
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