End the Misery

[Ken]

As I sit here at my keyboard, my ever loyal dogs are sleeping at my feet.

Even in his sleep, one of them is trying to kill me. I have had both of them on a steady Iams dry food (weight control) diet for quite a long time. I have really cut back on the "people food" and they have only gotten a bit of beef, chicken, or a milkbone to supplement their diets.

My God. Clyde is farting non-stop and it reeks something awful. I just did a little web search, and I'd like to share the following with all of you who suffer as I am now suffering. He's about to get woken up for a little treat of yogurt. Let's end the misery NOW........


"EIGHT TIPS TO REDUCE YOUR DOG’S FLATULENCE"

"This short report comes to you courtesy of http://www.dogflatulence.com

Please feel free to pass this document to your friends, give it away from your web site as a free download or as a gift to your ezine/newsletter subscribers.

Tip 1. Give your dog a good quality diet. Feed your pooch with only the best dog food you can afford.

Tip 2. Don’t feed your dog food which you know is likely to give cause to gas and flatulence. Think about it – you know what gives you gas so feeding your dog on the same is likely to cause the same result!

Tip 3. After your dog has eaten, given them a spoonful of natural yoghurt as a little treat. This can aid digestion and help to prevent a flatulence outbreak.

Tip 4. If your dog is prone to “wolfing” down his food, try feeding them on a “little and often” basis. If your dog is “wolfing” he’s swallowing air with his food – a cause of flatulence. Feeding little and often can help to cut down on that.

Tip 5. Raise his bowl off the floor a little. You can buy, inexpensively, dog bowl stands. This can help him to eat at a “natural” height and also help to stop him “wolfing” and swallowing air.

Tip 6. Try to cut out those treats you can help but dish out when your dog gives you “that” look. It’ll help to keep his weight down too. Or if you really must give in to temptation from time to time, give him a little piece of chicken or good quality kibble.

Tip 7. Regular exercise. A dog who gets his share of “walkies” will be a happy and healthy dog. Another aid to digestion and flatulence prevention measure. Plus – if any gas does “escape” while your out with your dog it can escape “naturally” and not cause a “nasty smell” in your house.

Tip 8. Talk to your vet about vitamin supplements – the right vitamins can help cut down on dog flatulence as well as being good for your dog’s health in general."

[Rick]

That's pretty funny. I'm not certain how accurate it is but it was a good chuckle.

For instance, swallowing air doesn't cause gas. It might cause the dog to belch but the process of digestion creates methane, hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide as a bi product. When food is not broken down in the stomach and small intestine it finds it's way to the large intestine. It's like a smorgasbord to those little bacteria that live in the gut quietly munching away on our food. They are the little goobers that create the various gases which must be passed, musically ...always in the presence of others. The smelly part is the hydrogen sulfide. Here, pull my finger.

Too, funny.

[MatthewnOK]

Here I am at 7:30 in the morning, cross-eyed, looking at the scientific anatomy of dog farts. Nut...

[Rick]

It just proves the extent the MODS are willing to go on this forum to offer up quality information based on sound, scientific fact and using hands on experience. No hour too late, no night too dark, no winter too cold. Hey! Pull my finger.

[Ken]

Here I am at 7:30 in the morning, cross-eyed, looking at the scientific anatomy of dog farts. Nut...

Are you reading about it, or are you actually looking at it? :eek:

[Alpine_Sapper]

Ken,

I have to totally disagree with what you posted. Here's the rub; I've been feeding a "high-quality" food that someone who (self proclaimed) "knows everything there is to know about dogs" recommended. With no affiliation to the company, this person suggested a dog food that is $50 for a 35 lb bag. Ok. It's a holistic food. (For those wondering, it's Nutro Max Ultra-Holistic). This food is CRAP. Sure, it's 1000 times better than Purina, Alpo, or any of the other junk our there like "Beneful", but it's still CRAP.

If you look at the primary ingredients in most dog foods, it's corn meal. Typically the ingredients with the highest concentration in the food will be listed first, and then in descending order. Pick up the bag and look at it; I bet the first ingredient in any of your foods is corn meal. How many wild dogs do you see eat corn? Now check and see if beet pulp is anywhere in there? How many dogs do you see go dig up a beet and eat it?
These are put in as fillers, and not digested by your dog. In fact, they could be poisoning him/her. Case in point, the only reason beet pulp is put in dog food is as a stool hardener. It makes it so that your dog either CANT go to the bathroom because he's constipated, or it becomes more difficult to pass. Even if it's not THAT drastic because your dog is drinking excessive amounts of water to compensate, you can no longer tell if there is something wrong with your dog by examining the stool as the beet pulp covers all of that up.

You can also get a condition called "bloat" by feeding carbohydrate diets to a dog. Horses are prone to it too, from the oats. Guess what? If your food has oatmeal, your putting a ticking time bomb in your dogs stomach that is going to cause it to twist, and will cause the gas warfare condition you are mentioning.

Your dog is NOT meant to be an herbivore, or an omnivore. I recently read an arcticle talking about how dogs had been domesticated to the point that we had changed them from carnivores into omnivores, and that dogs would gladly eat fruit and vegetables as a snack.

roflmfao.

You can form your own opinions from research you do on the above statements. All I will say is that you should be aware that a LOT of people out there take the propaganda created by scientists on the dog food companies payroll as gospel, and this stuff is put out specifically so that people will buy this crappy food, poison their dogs, and all the time feel good about feeding their dog a primarily carbohydrate diet that is killing him/her.

So what's the solution? RESEARCH. Make your OWN conclusions. Find your OWN food.

Me? I feed a raw diet. It's more inline with what a canine SHOULD be eating. For about a buck a pound, you can get a raw food that consists of turkey, duck, emu, beef, etc. It's primarily the organs, turkey necks, etc that can't be sold in the supermarket when they butcher, but, if you've ever watched a pack slaughter prey, what get's consumed first? The Alpha has his pick of the organs, the higher stature dogs will get their pick, and the lowest statured dog in the pack will end up getting the "scraps", or muscle tissue.

I make my own dog biscuits. The primary ingredients are lamb meal, salmon meal, chicken meal...

Other than that for treats, my dog either gets jerkey, tuna, or salmon packets. Those are expensive, so rare. I also keep a large supply of bones on hand, but ONLY RAW BONES. Cooked bones will splinter much easier. Bones are GOOD for your dog. Anyone that tells you otherwise is probably listening to the propaganda from the guys that are making dog treats/food and want you to buy their product instead of going and talking to your butcher or feed store.

And just so you guys know, the one that recommended the Nutro Max to me, was a breeder, so sometimes even reputable sources turn out to be wrong.

Please understand I'm not trying to slam the dog food companies (although I could write a book about that) I'm just trying to pass along the results of my research, so you can inform yourself by doing your own, and hopefully, whether you come to the same conclusion I did or not, you will find a diet for your pooch that had the same results I did. I have never seen my dogs so healthy or with such a shiny, vibrant coat, and I've never seen such vibrance in their eyes. Please, for your dogs health, pay attention to what you put in his bowl. And Ken, it'll help the assault on your olfactory senses as well. :)

[Ken]

You know, that makes alot of sense. My vet actually told me once that I was slowly killing my dogs when I told him that their diet consisted mainly of meat (beef and chicken - cooked) with a few mix-ins like carrots and a bit of rice.

During the melamine scare, I made all of their food myself. Most recipies called for some rice, OATMEAL, and veggies or peanut butter. Years ago, Clyde got pancreatitis after he helped himself to a few pounds of shelled crabmeat. Four days in Angel Memorial Animal Hospital and about $7,000 in vet bills (including $2,000 for four hours at the local ER).

Sapper, care to share any of your recipies with us?

[Alpine_Sapper]

You know, that makes alot of sense. My vet actually told me once that I was slowly killing my dogs when I told him that their diet consisted mainly of meat (beef and chicken - cooked) with a few mix-ins like carrots and a bit of rice.

During the melamine scare, I made all of their food myself. Most recipies called for some rice, OATMEAL, and veggies or peanut butter. Years ago, Clyde got pancreatitis after he helped himself to a few pounds of shelled crabmeat. Four days in Angel Memorial Animal Hospital and about $7,000 in vet bills (including $2,000 for four hours at the local ER).

Sapper, care to share any of your recipies with us?

Yeah, I can. Gotta give me a week or so though. All my stuff except BOB's and field gear is in storage in the DFW area, and I only bust those dog biscuit recipes out every now and then when I run out, so I don't have them commited to memory.

As for the the food, it's easy. Buy the raw and feed it the way it is. You can buy the frozen blocks of chopped up raw, and you just pull one out, toss it in their bowl, and let it thaw, or let them eat it frozen (some dogs will, some won't, usually depends on how hungry they are.) There are other ways you can get it, and while it can be messy so you may want to feed outside or in a controlled environment where you can clean any mess up.

Sucks about the vet bills. I know how that goes. Never in my life, before I had kids, would I have looked someone in the eye and with a straight face muttered the words "Sure, go ahead with the $500 surgery to save this cat's life." Now, I like the cat, and in his defense, he's a scrapper that got an absess from kicking a Raccoon's ***, which, I think, is the only reason I paid it. But the fact that Kashi got giardia at the SAME damn time, the vet bill came out to like $1600. For some antibiotics, two tests, and draining the life threatening absess from the cat. Yay. Still doesn't hurt as bad as the gut punch they got you with though.

[tennecedar]

I blame it on my dog too.

[Rick]

You own a $9000 dog? The way I figure it, for $9000 I could own AT LEAST 180 dogs! That's 15 Mossbergs or 60 really good BOBs!

[Rick]

I blame it on my dog too.

Tennecedar - You just....never mind.

[tennecedar]

Huh? Whad I say? I was just thinking that if I was an attorney, and someone came in the room, I would want something to back up my claim that the dog caused the offending odor. What better way than by being able to pull up this post? There by giving me a perfectly plausible alibi.

[Rick]

It's your story. Tell it any way you like.

[Ken]

I blame it on my dog too.

Yeah, I know what you mean. However, last night it was just the three of us - the two dogs and me. And they KNOW whose farts are whose.

I once read up on the sensitivity of a beagle's sense of smell. I then calculated that If some sicky were to pour 5 quarts of dog urine in the middle of our local reservoir, my guys would know it was there two days after the fact. And if they "knew" the dog, they would know that the urine was his/hers. Amazing.......

[Ken]

You own a $9000 dog? The way I figure it, for $9000 I could own AT LEAST 180 dogs! That's 15 Mossbergs or 60 really good BOBs!

I paid $350.00 for him. The $7,000.00 (not $9,000.00) got added to the cost of the crabmeat, not the dog.

[mountain mama]

I blame it on my dog too.
Now I understand why my husband continues to feed the dogs people food despite my objections....this explains so much!

[Alpine_Sapper]

The way I figure it, for $9000 I could own AT LEAST 180 dogs!

Why would you want such a small pack? :confused1::confused1::confused1:

[Alpine_Sapper]

Dogs have evolved.
They are omnivore.

Feeding them raw meat is a "mistake"...rooted in our own desire to revert back to "what we were". They...the dogs, have made that diet leap in order to align themselves with their idea of survival. They have decided, under the natural laws of the economy of energy to eat our scraps and hang out around us.

We made a deal with them.
They work for us...and we give them food.
But we are not the only ones having made that deal. Dogs live with baboons too. And they have the same deal with them. Dogs guard the baboon camp...bark when danger is close, and in return, they eat the baboon's scraps. Baboons are not giving them a raw meat diet.

Dogs will eat anything, as long as it is in the direction of economy of energy. Wild dogs do not eat meat everyday...hunting is hard work. And if they only based their survival on raw meat, they would become instinct. No...their diet consists of everything and anything they can find. Having said that...a balance diet is our responsibility as dog owners.
My dog is now 14 years old...she still runs and acts like she is 2.
Her diet has mostly been dry food.
I never bathe her...and i rarely give her treats apart from what falls on the ground while cooking, because that is really what they are.

All that to say...a raw diet is not in line with what a canine should be eating. A dog is not a wolf yes ? And each dog will respond differently to certain foods.

Like I said, everyone is going to have their own opinions. I raise large dogs, and while probably one of the more feral breeds, no, they are not a wolf.

However, as adaptable as dog is, they are still not healthy on an omnivorous diet. Yes, they can consume and pass grains, but they won't, unless WE give them to them. Have you ever seen a dog harvest wheat? The only time I've ever seen a dog go out and eat anything OTHER than prey was when they were having stomach issues, typically from a change in the dry food that we give them. Then they rely on instinct and eat grass to help. Why? Because they are not getting the partially digested plant matter from their prey via the stomach.

How many members of the canine genus do you see eating/harvesting plants?
None.

Why should domestic dog be any different?
Because we think they should eat the same things we do? that's like the lady trying to turn her "chi-weenies" into vegetarians because she is. Retarded, imho.

I'm glad your dog has lived longer than the average lifespan. However, I must say she/he is one of the lucky ones. And you are right, each dog will respond differently to certain foods.

No, wild dogs do not eat meat everyday. Neither does a wolfpack. But a dog is not a gatherer. He/She will not go out and forage berries or dig up wild plants to eat, whether they know they can or not. They'll go eat a frog, or a bug, or a rabbit, or a squirrel, or whatever else they can CATCH and eat that. If the prey was satiating enough they may not have to hunt again for couple of days.

I have no desire "revert back to "what we were"", because honestly, I think the evolutionary advances we've made are good ones. But I also think you're buying into the hype of the dog food companies. I have never seen one bit of compelling evidence that did NOT come from a dog food company in support of dry food. Sure, it's more convenient, and no one wants to believe that for the past 14 years they've been slowly killing their dog, so they defend their choice of actions by saying that dog has "adapted". But if you RESEARCH the statements I made regarding corn meal, oatmeal, and beet pulp, as well as the other crap in your dog food, it will definitely open your eyes.

One thing I forgot to mention; Dog food is commonly preserved with Vitamin E because it's "natural". But, in dog food, the Vitamin E has to be modified to keep it from going rancid, so not only is it no longer natural, it's not something your dog can digest.

[Alpine_Sapper]

What dogs do you have again ?

American Akitas.

[trax]

Dogs have evolved.
They are omnivore.

Feeding them raw meat is a "mistake"...

WonderMutt agrees Remy. He likes his bacon not too crispy and his steak medium-rare. He prefers Wendy's over Burger King and he sees no good reason why he should have to share a package of beef jerky with a human when we're out driving together. (although I have to do all the driving)

[mountain mama]

WonderMutt agrees Remy. He likes his bacon not too crispy and his steak medium-rare. He prefers Wendy's over Burger King and he sees no good reason why he should have to share a package of beef jerky with a human when we're out driving together. (although I have to do all the driving)
And just how gaseous does WonderMutt become after such a diet? I know the effects it has on my husband and it isn't pretty!

[trax]

And just how gaseous does WonderMutt become after such a diet? I know the effects it has on my husband and it isn't pretty!

Well if it comes to a throwdown between me and the dog, the dog backs down

[Alpine_Sapper]

Ah...kitas.
I understand the raw meat diet for your dogs then.
Got to keep them liking the taste of flesh eh ?

I was lucky to see my dog being born.
I was lucky to live in nature at the time (high desert)...and have the mother do all the raising.
She did hunt for her pups (she was pretty wild), but interestingly enough, she never brought back the full rabbit to them...instead she just brought back the head, and the pups would play with it.

As the dogs grew, we had 11 at the time...they would go and hunt on their own. Which in my opinion, is what most of our domesticated animals do not experience, and therefore are always stuck in a perpetual state of "childhood".
My dog never behaved like a puppy, always chewing stuff, barking uncontrollably etc...after she was able to fulfill certain instincts.
In fact, my dog only barks when we are sleeping, and something comes close to us.
She does not bark at the mailman.
She probably barked twice in the past 5 years.



I tried many different foods before settling with dry Eukanuba.
I don't give her treats.
About a year ago...she stopped eating her food.
We switched again but this time to wet.

So you see...i do not work for dry food companies.
Food, is just one component of a very complex amalgam of experiences the dog aligns with...or not.

There are many schools of thoughts when it comes to dogs...and i don't have all of the answers. I like to believe i know my dog pretty well...but again, she speaks more English than i do dog.
I think it depends on the nature of the dog. On its temperament, the way it was raised, the relationship you have with it, the intentions you have concerning its role in your life, its environment and so on...

All valid points. I'm not sure if I stated this or not, but essentially to back up your statements, a raw food diet is not right for EVERY dog. Some dogs thrive on kibble and some don't.

As for having to keep my Akita's liking the taste of flesh, *shrug* I don't fight my dogs, and they aren't "vicious". The breed itself is aggressive, but temperament is paramount when raising dogs like Akita's. A bad tempered dog is going to turn eventually no matter whether it gets the taste of raw flesh or not. Thankfully, most of the time Akita's are not the monsters the media makes them out to be. Just like American Staffordshire Terriers (pit bulls). A dog is a dog. yes, those breeds are powerful, but it's how the dog is raised that can make it a monster or a saint.

I respect your decision to feed kibble, wet food, raw food, or human food. It's your dog.

I am most certainly an advocate for a raw food diet as I have seen the changes in my dogs from switching them off kibble. I have also seen the science behind the switch, which is why I changed. And it's not like the guy that created this is just some average joe with an interest in dogs. The idea was created by a Veterinarian. Yeah, they sell the "BARF" diet commercially, but I'm not that wild about the cost of those products, so I get my raw food elsewhere.

This was originally presented because Ken was complaining of a gaseous dog, and kibble is a known culprit of that, as well as rawhide chews. I offered a solution that has worked for me. If you don't feel it will work for you, continue by all means. Especially if your dog is not having any health issues.



Interestingly enough...after this period of hunting, she has never been interested in killing. She chases rabbits and coyotes once in a while when we go camping...but she never goes for the kill...she just enjoys the chase.

A lot of that has to do with the breed. A lot of domestic dogs have the instinct to chase (anything, really. balls, cars, rabbits, coyotes) but not to finish it off if/when they catch it. It's because their instincts have been broken by humans trying to turn them into little fuzzy humans. But I guarantee you if your dog was alone and hungry, she would at least attempt (however successful she may be) to catch prey before resulting to gathering food. But conditioning is hard to break, so sure, if there are humans around she'll try to "gather" from them, but it's really just emulating a human bum and begging for a handout instead of having to go "work" for their food. If you can get substandard food for little to no work, or premium food for hard work, which do you think the dog or the bum is going to go for? As we've agreed on before, while a carnivorous predator it may be, canine is still an opportunistic scavenger. Doesn't mean what they are eating is good for them.

[Ken]

(although I have to do all the driving)

And THERE lies the problem. If you made him do his share of the driving, he just might become distracted long enough for you to get a piece of that jerky.

[trax]

And THERE lies the problem. If you made him do his share of the driving, he just might become distracted long enough for you to get a piece of that jerky.

He keeps trying but his legs are just too short to push the clutch all the way in, so I can't have him damaging my clutch right? Plus the no thumbs thing makes the wheel kind of difficult for him. He does a good job navigating for me though. 1 bark for north 2 for south, wag his tail up and down for west, back and forth for east. If he suddenly dives off the seat and hits the floor it's a pretty sure bet I'm headed for the ditch.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i had this white pit named sandie, she would come up to my friends wagin 'er stump and she would put her head between your legs and nip, if you moved even slightly she would growl dareing you to try it. well she never realy bit anybody but when i had my first daughter i sent sandie to mich. to live with my aunt on her farm. that dog made me nervous. she was well treated and kept, i think she was jealous of me having company over to the house.

[mountain mama]

trax, it sounds like you just haven't tried the appropriate vehicle for WonderMutt...
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Laika_designatedDriver_for_.jpg

[trax]

Yep, that right there, people. That's the helpful kind of suggestion I keep coming back here for. Only possible downside is sometimes WonderMutt tends to get a little more bent out of shape than I do, but I think he's going into some kind of program for that. Thanks Mountain Mama.

[mountain mama]

No problem, Trax ;) Just let me know if you are able to get any of that jerky when WonderMutt's head is turned

[Alpine_Sapper]

I had 2 pits...they were the sweetest dogs.

Yeah farting...i just don't think that one can be avoided.
Reduced maybe...but i sure ain't giving yogurt to my dog ?!?

My dog has been on the same diet for years and years...no variations, no treats...and some weeks she does not fart...and then some weeks it's just the making of a new biological weapon.

rofl. yup yup. My dog likes yogurt leathers, though. (dont' ask...)

[Alpine_Sapper]

Those of you that feed kibble might find this interesting. Instructions for calculating the grade if your food is not in the list are towards the bottom.

> AKC Grades Dog Food
>
>
> AKC GRADES DOG FOODS:
> Alpo Prime Cuts / Score 81 C
> Artemis Large/Medium Breed Puppy / Score 114 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+
> Authority Harvest Baked Less Active / Score 93 B
> Beowulf Back to Basics / Score 101 A+
> Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F
> Blackwood 3000 Lamb and Rice / Score 83 C
> Blue Buffalo Chicken and Rice / Score 106 A+
> Burns Chicken and Brown Rice / Score 107 A+
> Canidae / Score 112 A+
> Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+
> Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F
> Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B
> Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A
> Diamond Performance / Score 85 C
> Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
> Dick Va n Patten's Natural Balance Venison and Brown Rice / Score
> 106 A+
> Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+
> EaglePack Holistic / Score 102 A+
> Eukanuba Adult / Score 81 C
> Eukanuba Puppy / Score 79 C
> Flint River Senior / Score 101 A+
> Foundations / Score 106 A+
> Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B
> Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D
> Innova Dog / Score 114 A+
> Innova Evo / Score 114 A+
> Innova Large Breed Puppy / Score 122 A+
> Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+
> Member's Mark Chicken and Rice / Score 84 C
> Merrick Wilderness Blend / Score 127 A+
> Nature's Recipe / Score 100 A
> Nature's Recipe Healthy Skin Venison and Rice / Score 116 A+
> Nature's Variety Raw Instinct / Score 122 A+
> Nutra Nuggets Super Premium Lamb Meal and Rice / Score 81 C
> Nutrience Junior Medium Breed Pupp y / Score 101 A+
> Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B
> Nutro Max Adult / Score 93 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice / Score 98 A
> Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Wheat Free / Score 86 B
> Nutro Natural Choice Senior / Score 95 A
> Nutro Ultra Adult / Score 104 A+
> Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F
> Premium Edge Chicken, Rice and Vegetables Adult Dry / Score 109 A+
> Pro Nature Puppy / Score 80 C
> Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach / Score 94 A
> Purina Ben ful / Score 17 F
> Purina Dog / Score 62 F
> Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F
> Purina One Large Breed Puppy / Score 62 F
> Royal Canin Boxer / Score 103 A+
> Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+
> Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+
> Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F
> Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F
> Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A
> Solid Gold / Score 99 A
> Summit / Score 99 A
> Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural Dry / Score 120 A+
> Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+
> Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A
>
> Start with a grade of 100:
> 1) For every listing of "by-product" , subtract 10 points
> 2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat,
> meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points
> 3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points
> 4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source,
> subtract 5 points
> 5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the
> first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer's rice",
> "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points
> 6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than
> 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points
> 7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points
> 8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points
> 9) I f corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points
> 10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil,
> subtract 2 points
> 11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is
> allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points
> 12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points
> 13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn't
> allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points
> 14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog isn't
> allergic to beef), subtract 1 point
> 15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point
>
> Extra Credit:
> 1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points
> 2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or
> nutritionist, add 5 points
> 3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points
> 4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points
> 5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points
> 6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add
> 3 points
> 7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add
> 2 points
> 8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points
> 9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2
> points
> 10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point
> 11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point
> 12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than
> the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one
> protein source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1
> point
> 13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point
> 14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are
> pesticide-free, add 1 point
>
> A = 94-100
> B= 86-93
> C = 78-85
> D= 70-77
> F= 70 or l

[Ken]

Sapper, I looked up the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium food. The website http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/UPDCanned_Ultra.html suggests that I feed my lab 6 to 7 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY and my beagles 3 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY!

These guys will be obese in a week!

[Beo]

AKC dog foods, hmmm, personally if it doesn't earn its keep it ain't living in my house. My dogs are an alarm system and defense system (try coming in if they don't know you and you'll get the hint) but I feed them whatever I am having at the time, regular excerise is the key, I play with them, (used to) jog with them, and take them on Trekks and Hunting, and they stayed in good shape. They usually eat any animal they can catch, Tater ate a robin the other day after sneaking up on it and catching it off guard. So that's their diet. Dog food is dry, when they get it, but its Science Diet.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Sapper, I looked up the Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium food. The website http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/UPDCanned_Ultra.html suggests that I feed my lab 6 to 7 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY and my beagles 3 - 13 oz. CANS A DAY!

These guys will be obese in a week!

lol. I feel ya bro. Mine too. I've never heard of that food. That is redonkulous.

I just figured the info would be useful so you can see how the AKC is rating kibble and see how yours stacks up, and why since we were talking about it recently.

I feed the Nutro Ultra Holistic when I do give kibble. It was scored a104, and run's about $45-50 / 35lbs. Recommended large breed adult dosage about 4 -6 cups. lasts one dog ~ a month.


if it doesn't earn its keep it ain't living in my house. My dogs are an alarm system and defense system... regular excerise is the key, I play with them, (used to) jog with them, and take them on Trekks and Hunting, and they stayed in good shape. They usually eat any animal they can catch, Tater ate a robin the other day after sneaking up on it and catching it off guard. So that's their diet


---^ That's it in a nutshell. the dog can thrive on anything if it's getting exercise. That's one of the things on the raw diet. Pulling the meat off the bone and eating the bones is a type of exercise...eating exercise. Something dogs miss out on most of the time, unless they get to hunt, and then it's still rare.

[Rick]

Pulling The Meat Off The Bone And Eating The Bones Is A Type Of Exercise

Hey, Honey! Come Look. Alpine Says Eating Is An Exercise. I Told You!!!!!

[Ole WV Coot]

Personally I found corncobs as ideal dog food. They kinda turn their nose up, but after three or four days they seem to enjoy them and they are cheap.

[Ken]

Clyde is killing me from the other room at this very moment. He's been smelling up the place for the past few days.

So I thought I'd give this post a bump. :innocent:

[crashdive123]

You're just jealous that Clyde can eat what he wants.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

My beagle Mack has moved outside. I couldn't smell mine over his!

[welderguy]

You know whats really bad , when your dogs a bigger S. A. than you are rips a nasty one then walks away leaving you holding the bag, My ol healer used to do that to me all the time and always at the wrong moment, usually when guests were over.

[2dumb2kwit]

You're just jealous that Clyde can eat what he wants.

HaHaHaHa....Ken's blowing out rice cake vapors! LOL:innocent:

He's just dreaming of the day that he can have some :spam:

[trax]

Personally I found corncobs as ideal dog food. They kinda turn their nose up, but after three or four days they seem to enjoy them and they are cheap.

and I just bet you happen to have plenty of corn cobs just settin' around the place don't you Pop? :sneaky2:

[Ken]

Under no circumstances, I repeat, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, will I ever again give my dogs potato chips, no matter how badly they beg. :innocent:

[2dumb2kwit]

Under no circumstances, I repeat, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, will I ever again give my dogs potato chips, no matter how badly they beg. :innocent:

I had to stop giving my dog potato chips. He had gotten so spoiled, that if you tried to give him a plain chip he would just look at you like you'd lost your mind. He would only take it, if you'd put a little dip on it.:blushing:

[Ken]

I had to stop giving my dog potato chips. He had gotten so spoiled, that if you tried to give him a plain chip he would just look at you like you'd lost your mind. He would only take it, if you'd put a little dip on it.:blushing:

Then don't ever give him scrambled eggs with ketchup. :innocent:

[2dumb2kwit]

Then don't ever give him scrambled eggs with ketchup. :innocent:

I sure doesn't take long for them to train us, does it?:blushing:LOL

[Ken]

I sure doesn't take long for them to train us, does it?:blushing:LOL

Who do you think got the new throw pillows I bought for the couch? :sneaky2:

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

Прод (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1978)301 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/1022)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Сто� (http://factoringfee.ru)Mela (http://filmzones.ru)Wier (http://gadwall.ru)проз (http://gaffertape.ru)одна (http://gageboard.ru)Alle (http://gagrule.ru)Burn (http://gallduct.ru)DISC (http://galvanometric.ru)Dorm (http://gangforeman.ru)0758 (http://gangwayplatform.ru)Лите (http://garbagechute.ru)
Orie (http://gardeningleave.ru)Beau (http://gascautery.ru)Yest (http://gashbucket.ru)Losi (http://gasreturn.ru)�рти (http://gatedsweep.ru)Звер (http://gaugemodel.ru)друг (http://gaussianfilter.ru)Ryan (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)Deli (http://geartreating.ru)Иван (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)Aldo (http://generalprovisions.ru)учил (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)Derm (http://geriatricnurse.ru)Ahav (http://getintoaflap.ru)Jard (http://getthebounce.ru)
Ва�и (http://habeascorpus.ru)Бьер (http://habituate.ru)Caud (http://hackedbolt.ru)канд (http://hackworker.ru)И�по (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)о�во (http://haemagglutinin.ru)Reac (http://hailsquall.ru)�ерт (http://hairysphere.ru)Emil (http://halforderfringe.ru)Gius (http://halfsiblings.ru)Char (http://hallofresidence.ru)Логв (http://haltstate.ru)Lama (http://handcoding.ru)Мо�к (http://handportedhead.ru)Robe (http://handradar.ru)
Anna (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)Blue (http://hangonpart.ru)Kwap (http://haphazardwinding.ru)��ыл (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)Моне (http://hardasiron.ru)Robe (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)Push (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)Миро (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)Jacq (http://hatchholddown.ru)Поли (http://haveafinetime.ru)Domi (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)silv (http://headregulator.ru)отде (http://heartofgold.ru)Walt (http://heatageingresistance.ru)ру�� (http://heatinggas.ru)
Боро (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)�бор (http://jacketedwall.ru)Hous (http://japanesecedar.ru)Отеч (http://jibtypecrane.ru)иллю (http://jobabandonment.ru)Andr (http://jobstress.ru)John (http://jogformation.ru)Leon (http://jointcapsule.ru)Defi (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)Седн (http://journallubricator.ru)�ерт (http://juicecatcher.ru)1953 (http://junctionofchannels.ru)HTML (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)Соде (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)Alfr (http://kaposidisease.ru)
Суши (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)Ñ�пец (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)Ange (http://kentishglory.ru)FIFA (http://kerbweight.ru)Bret (http://kerrrotation.ru)Nint (http://keymanassurance.ru)Wind (http://keyserum.ru)Ñ�ере (http://kickplate.ru)Ð*азу (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)Mark (http://kilowattsecond.ru)Elmo (http://kingweakfish.ru)Ñ�каз (http://kinozones.ru/film/6874)XVII (http://kleinbottle.ru)Луни (http://kneejoint.ru)Иллю (http://knifesethouse.ru)
Swor (http://knockonatom.ru)Univ (http://knowledgestate.ru)3000 (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)�зык (http://labeledgraph.ru)комп (http://laborracket.ru)�ере (http://labourearnings.ru)01-2 (http://labourleasing.ru)Тага (http://laburnumtree.ru)Cami (http://lacingcourse.ru)Maur (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)иллю (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)Beat (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)Jona (http://ladletreatediron.ru)Боро (http://laggingload.ru)Крот (http://laissezaller.ru)
VIII (http://lambdatransition.ru)Hugg (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)Mini (http://lammasshoot.ru)Chal (http://lamphouse.ru)Tour (http://lancecorporal.ru)Andy (http://lancingdie.ru)Поле (http://landingdoor.ru)Guai (http://landmarksensor.ru)�рбе (http://landreform.ru)Dell (http://landuseratio.ru)Burn (http://languagelaboratory.ru)праз (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1163890)клей (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1537699)ме�� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/930)крыш (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591826)

[yellowcab]

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