An Iceage Discovery

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I was pouring over my stones the other day and managed to put togather an ice age stone stove. I wanted to share it with everybody to demonstrate how something beutiful can function as a survival tool, and also i wanted to show how a hand fill of stones can be arranged in an intricate "stack" then carried through the bush without disturbing the "stack" of stones. so what i did is make a video demonstration of of how to do that.

to see the video; just click onto the link in my signature and watch the video called, Trapper Jacks Iceage wilderness oil lamp demonstration and tell me what you think. I would like to have everybodys feedback. would this have any value in your "MAN BAG"

[Runs With Beer]

Nice job on the video, I use bracket fungus also for wicks. Here is a oil lamp I made from pottery last week. Will burn for over a hour with olive oil and a fungus wick. Keep making the videos me Likey

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Thanks, i work diligently to produce good stuff like the stoves I collect and make. I want one of your little lamp stoves I have a stone set that may trade you for it .

[Alpine_Sapper]

I was pouring over my stones the other day and managed to put togather an ice age stone stove. I wanted to share it with everybody to demonstrate how something beutiful can function as a survival tool, and also i wanted to show how a hand fill of stones can be arranged in an intricate "stack" then carried through the bush without disturbing the "stack" of stones. so what i did is make a video demonstration of of how to do that.

to see the video; just click onto the link in my signature and watch the video called, Trapper Jacks Iceage wilderness oil lamp demonstration and tell me what you think. I would like to have everybodys feedback. would this have any value in your "MAN BAG"

Nice job. Going to make a couple of these this coming weekend. Going to take a group of kids camping for the first time, let them build a debris hut, etc. Your lamp should make for a fun project for them for late afternoon. Thanks.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

thank you, those lamps are efficient, dependable, and safe for use indoors or out. I use them to cook on, for heating my shelters, and for light and tool making. its an important skill to have so i dont mind shareing it.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

the thing about this set is that its also a stove for making rendered fat, a stove for cooking meat, a hand warmer and its three seperate wick holders. the stones are like little transformers they rearrange to make other useful arrangements.

[tennecedar]

Just wondering if you ever use any fuel in one of your lamps that doesn't attract bears? I've read where you use olive oil, bacon grease, seed oils, crisco, etc. Those are the last things i want anywhere near my site, much less heating my shelter. And what do ya do with them hot rocks if you have to break camp in a hurry? Hot rocks, hot grease, can't put em in the pack... I'm won't even consider carrying something like that in my hands.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Just wondering if you ever use any fuel in one of your lamps that doesn't attract bears? I've read where you use olive oil, bacon grease, seed oils, crisco, etc. Those are the last things i want anywhere near my site, much less heating my shelter. And what do ya do with them hot rocks if you have to break camp in a hurry? Hot rocks, hot grease, can't put em in the pack... I'm won't even consider carrying something like that in my hands.

i can use pine sap or wax. wilderness stoves are made from the woods,i have no idea what you use, i guess you would try to build a bon-fire in a tent or mabe carry that 40 pound kreosese heater on your back. my stoves have been in use for over 10,000 years. the condensed fuels( like lard), enable me have fire, cook, and heat so i dont need anything else.those stoves you guys use are too heavy,the fuel is costly once it runs out your done(break your sticks) my stove burns any hydrocarbon; i dont run out of fuel and I would definately carry that in my pack!( with a couple pounds of crisco, or pine sap ,or wax ) try that with your stoves, you dont have anything that i would carry as a stove. what do you use that would be so much better? ps. crisco dos'nt smell like food when it burns.

[Rick]

I don't think he was challenging you. I think he was asking you questions on how you deal with a couple of issues. IMHO.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

These type of stove offer the best possible situation. my stove will provide cooking heat for 5 hours on a 6 fl. oz. fill try burning a propane trail stove for 5 hours anr you are out of fuel. when mine run out i get pine sap,how can you refill an empty propane in the woods.( mabe that RV site)?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I don't think he was challenging you. I think he was asking you questions on how you deal with a couple of issues. IMHO.

an objective stammer, thats all. i educate by example and comparison.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

the iceage stove provides the best possible array of fuels to use, no other stove can do that. coleman has a model that runs white gas and unleaded gasoline. the bulk of it is encumbering., micro stoves have micro fuel cans and they bare heavy. the best bet is lard or pinesap for survival. the stove should take away the fear of not having enough fuel, the stones can be put togather anywhere(common stone shapes )no need to carry those. the bowl can be wood or stone or permafrosted soil, no need to carry the bowl, the fuel can be animal fat or pine sap, no need to carry that either. so you see its the perfect stove.

[crashdive123]

I've got to be completely honest - while I like the oil/wax/sap stoves, and it is great to have that knowledge - for me it, along with different methods of starting a fire are just tools in the tool box. I will not be giving up my modern stoves, or the ones that I have built, but it is nice to know that I can get by without them if the situation arises.

[tennecedar]

Wow, I had no idea you'd react so strongly to a couple of questions. Actually I don't heat my shelter with any device. My shelter does it's job- shelters me from the elements. My clothes and blanket keep me warm. You said crisco doesn't smell like food when burning. What I would worry about is everything that came in contact with it that isn't getting set on fire to get rid of the smell. As far as cooking goes I don't need a 10,000 year old design. My multi fuel stove allows me to boil water and make a meal to suit my needs. When I'm finished I can pack up and be on my way. I was asking legitimate concerns about your lamps and you fly into me. Way to educate by example and comparison. Good job.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Wow, I had no idea you'd react so strongly to a couple of questions. Actually I don't heat my shelter with any device. My shelter does it's job- shelters me from the elements. My clothes and blanket keep me warm. You said crisco doesn't smell like food when burning. What I would worry about is everything that came in contact with it that isn't getting set on fire to get rid of the smell. As far as cooking goes I don't need a 10,000 year old design. My multi fuel stove allows me to boil water and make a meal to suit my needs. When I'm finished I can pack up and be on my way. I was asking legitimate concerns about your lamps and you fly into me. Way to educate by example and comparison. Good job.

It wasnt my intent to be snappy, if someone has no stove to use in the woods; three stones,a shallow depression,a bracket wick, and some pinesap will put you right in there where you want to be.if i dont carry a stove and fuel in my pack i can get that when i need it. and i can use a large variety of fuels.that gives me comfort,and i dont depend on encumbering, bulky equipment in my pack. The bear doesnt scare me, if oil attracts the bear to my camp. its a good chance for food and burnable lard. the bear is my menue, i'm not on his

[Alpine_Sapper]

the bear is my menue, i'm not on his

lol. Careful, you may have some numpty out there with a fork and a can of bear spray because he read it was better than a firearm...

I'd pay to see that video though....

[tennecedar]

The bear doesnt scare me, if oil attracts the bear to my camp. its a good chance for food and burnable lard. the bear is my menue, i'm not on his

Well OK then..... Now I see how you view that. Good luck.

[ClayPick]

Seal oil with a wad of arctic cotton grass and peat makes a really good stove, any type of fuel is a bonus when you get above the tree line. It's hard to find a perfect wick and the best seem to need attention every so often. Any moisture in the wick or fuel seems to be the biggest pain. Good video!

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I traded the modern stove for the old way several years ago. the encumbering bulky stoves run out of fuel quickly. a one pound propane last for 2 hours one pound of lard lasts for 48 hours, propane doesnt stack up to a better more condensed fuel. we tried to entice a bear to our camp at nantahala a few years ago, we hung every meat and cookie, but no bear came. i dont wast my time to worry for a bear. they are scavengers that come around after a camp is broken, yea you hear about bear attacks, you are more likley to get struck by lightening

[tennecedar]

I don't stand on a hilltop holding a metal rod during thunderstorms either. I'm happy that you're happy with your rock stoves. If we ever meet up, just let me know that you have that kind of fuel and i'll move my camp well away from yours. Best of luck on the bear enticing thing.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

I don't stand on a hilltop holding a metal rod during thunderstorms either. I'm happy that you're happy with your rock stoves. If we ever meet up, just let me know that you have that kind of fuel and i'll move my camp well away from yours. Best of luck on the bear enticing thing.
i dont use camp grounds very often, dont think ill be seeing you out in the woods. and the bears in tennesee? ha thats funny. baiting animals works quite well with deer. wont need luck there, just a good sharp spear.

[tennecedar]

and the bears in tennesee? ha thats funny.

How so? I personally have a healthy respect for anything that weighs more than I do, has teeth and claws, and eats meat. A bear dosn't know what state he lives in. I completely understand not being in campgrounds. I don't frequent them either. I do however do alot of section hikes on the AT. Bear country. Anyone bringing ANY food product into the area must use bear bagging techniques. For their safety as well as the safety of others. You posted that you educate by example. That's an example alright. And by your example I have learned enough to know I will never agree with you on this point. Best wishes on your adventures.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

and the bears in tennesee? ha thats funny.

How so? I personally have a healthy respect for anything that weighs more than I do, has teeth and claws, and eats meat. A bear dosn't know what state he lives in. I completely understand not being in campgrounds. I don't frequent them either. I do however do alot of section hikes on the AT. Bear country. Anyone bringing ANY food product into the area must use bear bagging techniques. For their safety as well as the safety of others. You posted that you educate by example. That's an example alright. And by your example I have learned enough to know I will never agree with you on this point. Best wishes on your adventures.

if you run from an oil lamp thinking of a bear attack id say that you should stay in a campground. my example is that ignorant peolple destroy useful technology in fear of something that doesnt happen.ive hiked on the AT. and hunted along its borders, the "bear bag rule" is geared for the sight-seer and serves to protect the elderly and the children who place themselves into a near wilderness enviroment. bears dont hunt humans they are omnivorous,they eat plants and scavange on meat. the brown bear and the grizzly eat meat not the black bear. people try to feed them like pets and they are not pets. park rules like you said are designed for the nupty. i disagree with what you said, people place themselves in danger of attack. curiosity can draw a bear. the smell of food does nothing for them. in cataloochee the bears number in the 100's the last bear encounter there was in late 80's where a man was molled.his minor injuries could have been avoided

[tennecedar]

the brown bear and the grizzly eat meat not the black bear.

i disagree with what you said, people place themselves in danger of attack. curiosity can draw a bear. the smell of food does nothing for them.

Did you think that up by yourself or did some idiot tell you that?
That is the most absurd statement I've ever read. Please tell me you're joking.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

the brown bear and the grizzly eat meat not the black bear.

i disagree with what you said, people place themselves in danger of attack. curiosity can draw a bear. the smell of food does nothing for them.

Did you think that up by yourself or did some idiot tell you that?
That is the most absurd statement I've ever read. Please tell me you're joking.

im fresh out of idiots, ill use you instead, the black bear is a scavenger. not a canivore. none of the bears are carnivores.who told you that they were?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

my father is a bear hunter, he lives CA. i dont think you can match wit with a master bear hunter. i speak from exp and from what somebody said

[Alpine_Sapper]

the brown bear and the grizzly eat meat not the black bear.

i disagree with what you said, people place themselves in danger of attack. curiosity can draw a bear. the smell of food does nothing for them.

Did you think that up by yourself or did some idiot tell you that?
That is the most absurd statement I've ever read. Please tell me you're joking.

Not to get in the middle of this :3:, but I have to agree with Tennecedar. The bit about the smell of food doing nothing for a bear is absolutely laughably absurd. I suppose you are going to tell us the smell of cooked/cooking food doesn't make humans and canines salivate, either, huh? I'm sure a bigger, hungrier predator, even an omnivourous one, would not be affected int he same way. :whistling::thumbup1:

Don't get me wrong, I like the stove/lanterns you posted, but come one, not everyone is going to. Just because Tennecedar doesn't like them, is it REALLY worth all of this?

Have a friggin' coke and a smile while you watch some hippy goodness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WybIhLJjlTY

[Alpine_Sapper]

im fresh out of idiots, ill use you instead, the black bear is a scavenger. not a canivore. none of the bears are carnivores.who told you that they were?

*raises hand

I think fishing counts as a carniverous...
Scavenger has nothing to do with herbivore, omnivore, or carnivore...it just means opportunist...

[tennecedar]

Do you not understand the word OMNIVORE?

omnivore [(om-nuh-vawr)]


An animal whose normal diet includes both plants and animals. Human beings and bears, for instance, are omnivores.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/omnivore

I give up. I'll never understand your thoughts on bears and safety. I'll leave you with this. Please reconsider telling young impressionable people your views on this matter. I would hate to read where some kid got hurt by a bear because he smelled like bacon grease and he read where you said not to worry, bears don't eat meat.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Just so everyone is clear on the subject;

Common characteristics of modern bears include a large body with stocky legs, a long snout, shaggy hair, plantigrade paws with five nonretractile claws, and a short tail. While the polar bear is mostly carnivorous and the giant panda feeds almost entirely on bamboo, the remaining six species are omnivorous, with largely varied diets including both plants and animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear

Diet & Interspecific Interactions

Their carnivorous reputation non-withstanding, most bears have adopted a diet of more plant than animal matter and are completely opportunistic omnivores. One exception is the Polar Bear, which has adopted a diet mainly of marine mammals to survive in the Arctic. The other exception is the Giant Panda which has adopted a diet mainly of bamboo. The Sloth Bear, though not as specialized as the previous two species, has lost several front teeth usually seen in bears and developed a long, suctioning tongue in order to feed on the termites and other burrowing insects that they favor. All bears will feed on any food source that becomes available. When taking warm-blooded animals, bears will typically take small or young animals, because of the endurance and potential danger that comes with attacking large prey. Although (besides Polar Bears) both species of black bear and the Brown Bear can sometimes take large prey, such as ungulates. Often, bears will feed on other large animals when they encounter a carcass, whether or not the carcass is claimed by or is the kill of another predator. This competition is the main source of interspecies conflict. Bears are typically the apex predators in their range due to their size and power, and can defend a carcass against nearly all comers. Mother bears also can usually defend their cubs against other predators. The Tiger is the only known predator known to regularly prey on adult bears, including Sloth Bears, Asiatic Black Bears, Giant Pandas, Sun Bears and small Brown Bears.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Just so everyone is clear on the subject;

. While the polar bear is mostly carnivorous and the giant panda feeds almost entirely on bamboo, the remaining six species are omnivorous, with largely varied diets including both plants and animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear

Diet & Interspecific Interactions

Their carnivorous reputation non-withstanding, most bears have adopted a diet of more plant than animal matter and are completely opportunistic omnivores. One exception is the Polar Bear, which has adopted a diet mainly of marine mammals to survive in the Arctic. The other exception is the Giant Panda which has adopted a diet mainly of bamboo. The Sloth Bear, though not as specialized as the previous two species, has lost several front teeth usually seen in bears and developed a long, suctioning tongue in order to feed on the termites and other burrowing insects that they favor. All bears will feed on any food source that becomes available. When taking warm-blooded animals, bears will typically take small or young animals, because of the endurance and potential danger that comes with attacking large prey. Although (besides Polar Bears) both species of black bear and the Brown Bear can sometimes take large prey, such as ungulates. Often, bears will feed on other large animals when they encounter a carcass, whether or not the carcass is claimed by or is the kill of another predator. This competition is the main source of interspecies conflict. Bears are typically the apex predators in their range due to their size and power, and can defend a carcass against nearly all comers. Mother bears also can usually defend their cubs against other predators. The Tiger is the only known predator known to regularly prey on adult bears, including Sloth Bears, Asiatic Black Bears, Giant Pandas, Sun Bears and small Brown Bears.
thanks, thats how i should have said it, quess im gettin slow in my years. thanks for the link. i'll add that to my roster of educational web sites. i know one thing if you a bear in your camp bring fish and marshmallows

[tennecedar]

i know one thing if you a bear in your camp bring fish and marshmallows

Huh?!?

[red lake]

I think the oil stoves are good in certain environments, but in a place where wood is abundant, there is no comparison.

Carrying lard, rendering pine sap, creating the stove with the rocks and bowl is far too much work when you can simply make a wood burning fire. Those stoves are meant for the barren lands where there are no trees.

BTW, burning animal fat smells like animal, how could it not.

It is a great stove you made and a good skill to have, but like everything there are pluses and minuses.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

i know one thing if you a bear in your camp bring fish and marshmallows

Huh?!?

its a good thing that that you have such a fear of bears. i grew up with them. they are as inteligent as humans. probably more cunning.i replaced fear with an understanding of thier habits.they far more prefer goose berries and dead possum that man meat.i learned how to share with them,and for the grizzly ;try a day camp for your cooking needs and use a nite camp for you sence of safety. over nite camps are more likely to be invaded than an older more permenant camp. cook thier favorite foods away from your camp and leave some remenants behind to pay the bear. this offering differs further searching for a morsel

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

wood is a good fuel for outdoor burning, a wigwam or other shelter in winer can be heated with wood but you have to constantly braek sticks, an oil stove with a half gallon of oil will burn for up to 15 hours providing stable heat and light with no maintenence of the fire, thats 15 hands free hours for you to do the more important things like make weapons, hunt, sleep in a heated space, no smoke, no breaking sticks, just light it and leave it. the ducks and bears provide the oil(or pinesap),your fuel is there like wood, and oil heat is a better warmer haet than wood.i get tired of feeding a wood fire when i should be doing something else.

[tennecedar]

cook thier favorite foods away from your camp and leave some remenants behind to pay the bear. this offering differs further searching for a morsel


Don't Feed the Bear!

I'm done. This is going nowhere.:brickwall:

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

cook thier favorite foods away from your camp and leave some remenants behind to pay the bear. this offering differs further searching for a morsel


Don't Feed the Bear!

I'm done. This is going nowhere.:brickwall:

no hand feeding, truely from tennesee. no hand feeding , remenants left behind is not "feeding". camp ground survivalists that hand feed bears feed bears. i share with my animal friends. they share with me. the bones and a meaty tail are garbage to most people. i leave mine on a rock for the scavengers that may want it.

[red lake]

Wood will warm you three times.
Once gathering it.
Once splitting and cutting it.
Once when it is burned.

And as far as heat giving properties, that small fire in that bowl may work in the south, but would do little when the temperatures are below -10C

Gathering wood, gathering pine sap, rendering animal fat. They all take time, unless we did a head to head comparison I don't think you or I could realistically say one takes more time and effort than he other.

It is a great little candle you have made there. I did say that once already. However, you must admit that it is but one of several methods to achieve the same goal. One is not always better than the other, just different.

[Rick]

http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q348/safe_zone/Ban-Unleash_moderators.jpg

[tennecedar]

no hand feeding, truely from tennesee. no hand feeding

If you're going to insult me and the 6,156,718 other people from my state at least spell it right. T E N N E S S E E

remenants left behind is not "feeding".

Before you post, please look up the word you are about use and read the definition before you make up your own.

feed   /fid/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [feed] Show IPA verb, fed, feed⋅ing, noun
–verb (used with object) 1. to give food to; supply with nourishment: to feed a child.
2. to yield or serve as food for: This land has fed 10 generations.
3. to provide as food.
4. to furnish for consumption.
5. to satisfy; minister to; gratify: Poetry feeds the imagination.
6. to supply for maintenance or operation, as to a machine: to feed paper into a photocopier.
7. to provide with the necessary materials for development, maintenance, or operation: to feed a printing press with paper.
8. to use (land) as pasture.
9. Theater Informal. a. to supply (an actor, esp. a comedian) with lines or action, the responses to which are expected to elicit laughter.
b. to provide cues to (an actor).
c. Chiefly British. to prompt: Stand in the wings and feed them their lines.

10. Radio and Television. to distribute (a local broadcast) via satellite or network.

[Rick]

I'm here. I'm here. Okay, girls. Enough one upsmanship. Go now. Enjoy the woods. If you get eaten don't come cryin' to me.

See what happens when you don't play nice? This is an excellent example of a simple question escalating into an argument. Just no need for it.