View Full Version : Navy Seal Snipers == Awesome
Chris
04-13-2009, 11:53 AM
I was talking to my wife yesterday morning. She had seen those pirate headlines and wanted to know more so I explained about the Somali lack of government, the lawlessness, the piracy during the recent years, and then what happened that resulted in the hostage situation that was presently on the news. She wondered how they might rescue the captain and I said they probably wanted to snipe the pirates all at once, but firing from one boat, at another boat, on the high seas with wave action, has got to be near impossible.
I'm glad apparently I underestimated the skill of Navy seal snipers. The pirates made the idiot move of having all three stand up at the same time, and three snipers took them out with simultaneous headshots.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_re_af/piracy_239
crashdive123
04-13-2009, 06:23 PM
See what happens with training and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of rounds down range.
I am still amazed. Bainbridge bobbing in ocean. Life raft bobbing in ocean. Three idiots hanging out of the life raft. Three shots. Three less idiots.
I don't care how many rounds you put down range you just can not train for that. To me, it's mind boggling that any of them hit. The calculations had to be beyond impossible.
Had a guy at work lipping off about it was only 25yds, and I asked him if you and your target was rocking in a boat could you hit it? That ended his conversation.
crashdive123
04-13-2009, 08:27 PM
There has been a lot of speculation on how far the shot reall was. The small boat was tethered to the destroyer, so I doubt it was a close as 25 yards. Whatever distance it was, shooting a moving, bobbing target from a moving and bobbing platform = pretty darn good.
I can just see me getting THAT order.
"Uh, you want me to do what?"
I can just see me getting THAT order.
"Uh, you want me to do what?"
Let's not forget - the skipper who gave the order and the men who carried it out must have had a very, very, high level of confidence that the order would be executed with perfection. That confidence .... that impresses me just as much as those three shots did.
snakeman
04-13-2009, 08:39 PM
From I heard it was 100 yards away. That is just amazing. No one can put down an American soldier.
LowKey
04-13-2009, 09:27 PM
I'm just glad some action was taken and the situation didn't drag for months of pandering to pirate demands.
Mighty fine shooting that.
3 more vessels hijacked over night. Can you say Cruise Missile? I knew you could.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy
Navy team parachutes into Haliburton. Seriously! How do you parachute onto a ship? Listen carefully.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/14/somalia.pirates/#cnnSTCVideo
crashdive123
04-14-2009, 08:21 AM
Small charge place on the hull from the remote tether that the submarine in the area has, then radio the pirates. When they doubt your word, surface next to them and then slip away quietly.
Chris
04-14-2009, 09:32 AM
I don't know how the hijackings keep happening. These are huge ships, the pirates don't have big ships, they come up along side and scale the wall, should be easy to turn away if you're vigilant and armed, and you wouldn't need many armed men.
doren
04-14-2009, 11:12 AM
Maybe the sailors are waiting for a group of all female hijackers?
crashdive123
04-14-2009, 04:43 PM
I don't know how the hijackings keep happening. These are huge ships, the pirates don't have big ships, they come up along side and scale the wall, should be easy to turn away if you're vigilant and armed, and you wouldn't need many armed men.
From what I've read, most are following the UN directed rules of not having civilian merchants armed. They have not yet grasped the concept that an armed society is a polite society.
One would think that tossing some gasoline overboard...oh, I don't know, on them as they try to climb up the side, might give them pause to rethink their plan.
"Good show, Reginald. I do believe the scoundrels are retreating."
"These Somalis. Honestly, you'd think they would know to drop and roll."
"Indeed."
Chris
04-14-2009, 05:25 PM
One would think that tossing some gasoline overboard...oh, I don't know, on them as they try to climb up the side, might give them pause to rethink their plan.
"Good show, Reginald. I do believe the scoundrels are retreating."
"These Somalis. Honestly, you'd think they would know to drop and roll."
"Indeed."
Or... it isn't as if there is you know, trees in the ocean. On most of these big freighters a two man crew of snipers at the highest point of the ship could probably cover security in 12/hr shifts. Give them M107's and they'll sink the pirate boats before they even get close.
Actually, you wouldn't even need 2 guys probably. Just a camera system monitored from the bridge that scans for boats from all directions, if you see guys coming you page your sniper, he wakes up or reports for duty, climbs up to his perch, shoots them.
I saw on the news tonight that's exactly what they are doing. The merchant marines' were training with what looked like M1-As, 45s, and shotguns.
crashdive123
04-14-2009, 09:52 PM
Looks like there was another attempt on a US flagged ship today. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/NATLUS-Cargo-Ship-Hijacked-Near-Somalia-Coast-Officials.html?
erunkiswldrnssurvival
04-14-2009, 10:14 PM
I cant understand why anybody would take thier feet off of a perfectly good dirt anyway. i was watching a show the other day on sunken ships on the great lakes. them boats crack right in half and swim straight to the bottom. and if you tag them with a few well placed shell of ammo.....hhmmm
Chris
04-14-2009, 11:13 PM
What angers me more is that a lot of these boats are transporting food aid for the people of east Africa. If this is the welcome we get perhaps we should stop sending aid.
It's hard to make the many suffer over the actions of the few but I understand your feelings. I really like the convoy idea. That would work, no trouble. If you sink enough pirate vessels they'll soon run out of pirate vessels......and pirates.
What angers me more is that a lot of these boats are transporting food aid for the people of east Africa. If this is the welcome we get perhaps we should stop sending aid.
The same thing has happened on the ground in Somali and other nations where aid has been sent for years. I'd rather see the pirates stopped than the aid stopped and there have been some pretty good suggestions here.
As far as that shooting, yep, I couldn't have made those shots, that is very impressive. I've declined shots at moose that were on land when I was in a boat because of the motion. Moose are a lot bigger target than a pirate's noggin. The guy blabbing about it "only being 25 yards" I'd suggest try it himself, maybe from 5 or 10 yards. It's a whole different world when your firearms is moving around when you're trying to sight in.
I've seen trick shooters and good shots and been around some really good talkers about bein' good shots. But those three impressed me more than anyone I've ever seen or heard about. If anyone had asked me if that could have been done I would have said no. Emphatically. Would have laid good money on the table to back it up. Yet THREE did it at the same time. Freakin' unbelievable. Go Navy!
crashdive123
04-15-2009, 09:41 PM
What would you suggest?
Pal334
04-16-2009, 03:51 AM
Three deaths.
Three fathers, sons and brothers.
Three more death...
And yet...all we can talk about is how amazing people can be at shooting...killing.
Not that i am surprised.
Eliminating vermin one step at a time. Have to admire their efficiency
I didn't use it in the context of killing another human. That was your assumption. What impressed me was the fact that anyone could be on a moving platform and hit a target on another moving platform. The fact that the targets were people is incidental to the skill and not something I had even thought about when I made my post. If I had, I would have said something like.
I think it's awesome that three Seals were able to take out three miserable, worthless, damnable, repugnant and malignant fathers, sons and brothers in one shot. Hey, that's how I feel but I wasn't thinking it when I made my post. Perhaps a Freudian moment, who knows. One pirate to another.:innocent:
crashdive123
04-16-2009, 07:25 AM
Crash...your question, if i understand you correctly, is aimed at me giving you a solution in rapport to the incident...in rapport to boats and pirates, to right and wrong.
I do not have the solution you are looking for...at least not a solution quick enough to satisfy you, or anyone else in the immediate future...for my solutions start at home, individual by individual...and the logistics and politics of the world are of no interest to me.It's not a solution that I am looking for, but rather one that you seem to desire. Regardless of what we think of the plight of the Somali that are terrorizing the travelers and workers on the seas in their area, their what took place were the result of events that occured in their home, individual by individual.
Ole WV Coot
04-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Three deaths.
Three fathers, sons and brothers.
Three more death...
And yet...all we can talk about is how amazing people can be at shooting...killing.
Not that i am surprised.
That's a statement I heard or one similar during the '60s. Usually by a grubby, foul group of people(for the lack of a better word) that cursed and spat upon anyone in uniform, "baby killers" was the one I heard most. These "fine" citizens are now our country's leaders because their dear ole dad kept them in college for a dozen years to avoid the draft. Same old story, let's keep these killers behind glass to be broken only when a dirty job has to be done. Elation is there if you are the one standing. No regrets, I am proud of those SEALS and you are always entitled to your own opinion.:smash:
We can theorize, justify, assign guilt and/or blame, and seek to determine root causes for every act of violence which has ever taken place in the world.
Nonetheless, if someone were to mug my mother or rape my daughter, I wouldn't give a damn about why they did what they did. Quite simply, I would want that person dead. Period. End of discussion.
We can discuss the socio-economic plight of Somalia and even delve into discussions of how the lack of lighted playgrounds may have contributed to the rise of piracy in the region. Maybe the pirates were not breast fed long enough by their mothers, maybe their lack of affordable cable television service plays a role ..........
Here's the skinny (double entranda) on the pirates: They live in a back-a$$ "country" of warring factions. We didn't create that scenario and are NOT responsible for their condition. We don't plunder, and have never plundered, a damn thing from Somalia. Even if we were inclined to do so, which we are not, they have nothing of value to take because they themselves have destroyed everything of value that they once had. My brother was there with the 10th. Mountain Division in '93 - he told me all about the Somali's widespread habit of tearing out electric services and water pipes in order the sell the copper.
Our first attempt to aid in the rebuilding of their society and economy was met with wholesale hatred and violence by the general population. They don't want us there. Still, we seek to help by delivering humanitarian aid.........
Pirates? Nothing more than criminals looking for easy prey. They have no legitimate grievances against humanitarian missions or against civilians traveling on ships in 300 miles from their coast in international waters – civilians who have no connection to Somalia whatsoever.
Pirates? They use weapons, capture ships, deprive people of their liberty, place people at risk of death, and cause the death of innocents – all in furtherance of their singular objective of extorting ransom from any nation or company that happens to fall prey to them. Any “justification” they give for their acts is pure bullsh*t. They are criminals engaged in a very high stakes criminal enterprise, nothing more.
They understand two things only: money and violence. I would not pay them one thin dime of tribute. Instead, I would respond to their actions with overwhelming violence in order to eliminate their existence and discourage any re-emergence of their actions in the future.
Remy, you own guns, right? Didn’t you recently buy one for your wife? Clearly, you recognize a need for violence when necessary. Guess what? It’s VERY necessary when dealing with pirates.
Do I relish reading about how the three pirates in question were killed? Yes, I do. No apologies – sorry. Just a big sh*t-eatin’ grin on my face whenever I think about it.
By the way - I taught maritime law at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy. Both the skipper and his first mate are from my area - Murphy lives 10 miles from me. I'm just glad they're both coming home. The pirates? I'm just glad they're dead.
So, uhhh, Ken, let me see if I got this straight...you are against the pirates. Should we start another one of those annoying little polls you guys are always throwing out there? Anyone feel the need?:innocent:
So, uhhh, Ken, let me see if I got this straight...you are against the pirates.:innocent:
Yeah, Trax, I am. Boy, am I glad I made my feelings clear........
Pal334
04-16-2009, 01:13 PM
Trax, if a poll is started, perhaps Ken and I can vote undecided? :)
Well from a personal point of view this is all very enlightening gentlemen. I just now crossed pirate off of my potential future careers list. Arrrrghh!!
Alpine_Sapper
04-16-2009, 01:35 PM
We can theorize, justify, assign guilt and/or blame, and seek to determine root causes for every act of violence which has ever taken place in the world.
Nonetheless, if someone were to mug my mother or rape my daughter, I wouldn't give a damn about why they did what they did. Quite simply, I would want that person dead. Period. End of discussion.
We can discuss the socio-economic plight of Somalia and even delve into discussions of how the lack of lighted playgrounds may have contributed to the rise of piracy in the region. Maybe the pirates were not breast fed long enough by their mothers, maybe their lack of affordable cable television service plays a role ..........
Here's the skinny (double entranda) on the pirates: They live in a back-a$$ "country" of warring factions. We didn't create that scenario and are NOT responsible for their condition. We don't plunder, and have never plundered, a damn thing from Somalia. Even if we were inclined to do so, which we are not, they have nothing of value to take because they themselves have destroyed everything of value that they once had. My brother was there with the 10th. Mountain Division in '93 - he told me all about the Somali's widespread habit of tearing out electric services and water pipes in order the sell the copper.
Our first attempt to aid in the rebuilding of their society and economy was met with wholesale hatred and violence by the general population. They don't want us there. Still, we seek to help by delivering humanitarian aid.........
Pirates? Nothing more than criminals looking for easy prey. They have no legitimate grievances against humanitarian missions or against civilians traveling on ships in 300 miles from their coast in international waters civilians who have no connection to Somalia whatsoever.
Pirates? They use weapons, capture ships, deprive people of their liberty, place people at risk of death, and cause the death of innocents all in furtherance of their singular objective of extorting ransom from any nation or company that happens to fall prey to them. Any justification they give for their acts is pure bullsh*t. They are criminals engaged in a very high stakes criminal enterprise, nothing more.
They understand two things only: money and violence. I would not pay them one thin dime of tribute. Instead, I would respond to their actions with overwhelming violence in order to eliminate their existence and discourage any re-emergence of their actions in the future.
Remy, you own guns, right? Didnt you recently buy one for your wife? Clearly, you recognize a need for violence when necessary. Guess what? Its VERY necessary when dealing with pirates.
Do I relish reading about how the three pirates in question were killed? Yes, I do. No apologies sorry. Just a big sh*t-eatin grin on my face whenever I think about it.
By the way - I taught maritime law at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy. Both the skipper and his first mate are from my area - Murphy lives 10 miles from me. I'm just glad they're both coming home. The pirates? I'm just glad they're dead.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Chris
04-16-2009, 02:59 PM
We can theorize, justify, assign guilt and/or blame, and seek to determine root causes for every act of violence which has ever taken place in the world.
Nonetheless, if someone were to mug my mother or rape my daughter, I wouldn't give a damn about why they did what they did. Quite simply, I would want that person dead. Period. End of discussion.
We can discuss the socio-economic plight of Somalia and even delve into discussions of how the lack of lighted playgrounds may have contributed to the rise of piracy in the region. Maybe the pirates were not breast fed long enough by their mothers, maybe their lack of affordable cable television service plays a role ..........
Here's the skinny (double entranda) on the pirates: They live in a back-a$$ "country" of warring factions. We didn't create that scenario and are NOT responsible for their condition. We don't plunder, and have never plundered, a damn thing from Somalia. Even if we were inclined to do so, which we are not, they have nothing of value to take because they themselves have destroyed everything of value that they once had. My brother was there with the 10th. Mountain Division in '93 - he told me all about the Somali's widespread habit of tearing out electric services and water pipes in order the sell the copper.
Our first attempt to aid in the rebuilding of their society and economy was met with wholesale hatred and violence by the general population. They don't want us there. Still, we seek to help by delivering humanitarian aid.........
Pirates? Nothing more than criminals looking for easy prey. They have no legitimate grievances against humanitarian missions or against civilians traveling on ships in 300 miles from their coast in international waters – civilians who have no connection to Somalia whatsoever.
Pirates? They use weapons, capture ships, deprive people of their liberty, place people at risk of death, and cause the death of innocents – all in furtherance of their singular objective of extorting ransom from any nation or company that happens to fall prey to them. Any “justification” they give for their acts is pure bullsh*t. They are criminals engaged in a very high stakes criminal enterprise, nothing more.
They understand two things only: money and violence. I would not pay them one thin dime of tribute. Instead, I would respond to their actions with overwhelming violence in order to eliminate their existence and discourage any re-emergence of their actions in the future.
Remy, you own guns, right? Didn’t you recently buy one for your wife? Clearly, you recognize a need for violence when necessary. Guess what? It’s VERY necessary when dealing with pirates.
Do I relish reading about how the three pirates in question were killed? Yes, I do. No apologies – sorry. Just a big sh*t-eatin’ grin on my face whenever I think about it.
By the way - I taught maritime law at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy. Both the skipper and his first mate are from my area - Murphy lives 10 miles from me. I'm just glad they're both coming home. The pirates? I'm just glad they're dead.
The pirates made 150 million last year in ransom.
I doubt you can blame socioeconomic reasons for their actions anymore, they're richer than all of us on this forum combined.
The pirates made 150 million last year in ransom.
I doubt you can blame socioeconomic reasons for their actions anymore, they're richer than all of us on this forum combined.
that much huh?....:shifty:...reconsidering career shift...
MatthewnOK
04-16-2009, 03:51 PM
The pirates made 150 million last year in ransom.
Hmm... almost as much as a plumber!
Whatever. I still thinks it was a helluva shot.
Whatever. I still thinks it was a helluva shot.
oh yeah, I'll definitely be known as "the pirate who kept his stupid head down"
Alpine_Sapper
04-16-2009, 05:43 PM
oh yeah, I'll definitely be known as "the pirate who kept his stupid head down"
Reminds me of Ron White, talking about the cops and bank robbers
"The cops are all whining on TV 'He's got on body armor. He's got on body armor!'
I'm all, I can see his head, shoot him in the head! Here, let my son Poot have a shot.
BANG!
'How's that Daddy?'
'Good job son, you got'im!'"
I'd link you to it, but it's probably not considered pg-13 as he drops the f-bomb once or twice so it'd get removed. Just search Youtube for Ron White and you'll find it. If not that particular clip you'll still laugh your *** off.
Alpine_Sapper
04-16-2009, 05:44 PM
The pirates made 150 million last year in ransom.
I doubt you can blame socioeconomic reasons for their actions anymore, they're richer than all of us on this forum combined.
So with even less justification for their actions, it all boils down to simple greed.
I know you can live like a king for a year (two *'s, a hotel room, and a case of beer a night) for about $800 or less.
I wonder what you can do with $150,000,000 in Somalia?
That's a lot of AK's and RPG's....
:m107::gun_bandana:
:gunsmilie::rambo:
:pirate:drool:
crashdive123
04-16-2009, 05:57 PM
While some of the money is being kept by the "pirate community", the bulk of it is going to fund Islamic terrorists.
Alpine_Sapper
04-16-2009, 07:45 PM
Guys...
I own guns.
I am prepared to defend my family.
I was in the military.
My father in law is a Vietnam vet.
My father was in the military.
My grand father was in the resistance during WWII.
My great grand father was a horse man and fought at Verdain.
My point was, as i said in my second post...not about the action that took place...here...i'll quote myself.
"i am not criticizing, nor am i questioning the decision that was made to end this situation with deadly force..."
Coot is basically relating what i said to hippies from the 60s. I am no hippie believe me. As i said, what is done had to be done.
Maybe later, when i will no longer be told to back off, we can talk about it some more. Then again...maybe not.
roflmao. So YOU were the one PGVOutdoors got his panties in a twist about?
Alpine_Sapper
04-16-2009, 07:52 PM
got me... I was just guessing.
Not using the word awesome within the context of killing another human being would be a good start.
........There is nothing awesome about killing. What had to be done is done...but this thread is morbid and juvenile.
.......... whatever they have done, finding their death to be awesome and of amazing sporting technic is disappointing...
Remy, I DO understand what you have written. I'm sorry to "disappoint" you, but I do take great pleasure because of their death and the manner in which it came about.
They are not trying to survive. Instead, they are trying to THRIVE - at "our" expense. They are playing a dangerous game with the most serious of consequences. They laugh at us - the fools who pay tribute when brought to their knees. They place no value on our lives whatsoever - and I therefore view them in the same way. They are little more than animals, and certainly NOT human beings in my eyes - they ARE targets - only targets. Soooo, when these targets are eliminated with such skill, confidence, and efficiency - yep, I'll cheer for the winning team!
Chris
04-16-2009, 08:13 PM
What is awesome is the ability of our navy snipers to do three simultaneous headshots when shooting from one ship to another in the open ocean.
"Awesome" was not meant to relish in the deaths of those pirates, though like Ken, I feel no sympathy for them. The captain was not going to be rescued any other way. A boarding party would have been at risk and put the captain at risk, and having them get to Somali shores would have been a firefight, more lives lost again. It had to be snipers, it had to be simultaneous, and it had to be while they were still in the open ocean. I thought such a thing was going to be impossible.
tennecedar
04-16-2009, 09:24 PM
Great job Navy!
:rambo: :death::death::death:
:gunsmilie:
LowKey
04-16-2009, 09:44 PM
Remy, I think it's just a matter of semantics.
Perhaps if the title said, "awe inspiring" rather than "awesome"?
You don't seem to be arguing that the outcome was destined, only in the use of the word "awesome" associated with the deaths. The skill of the Seals is awe inspiring. I could never hope to make such a shot. That three of them did it simultaneously is worth noting.
hobowonkanobe
04-17-2009, 03:40 AM
all I can say is; three seals, three pirates, three shots...nuttin but net baby! Nuttin but net!
Welcome hobowonkanobe. Why not net your way over to our Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself?
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 08:16 AM
i am curious
how many herwe quiping about how awesome these kils were have ever had to take a life whether it be in the line of duty or in self defense.
to take a human life is not awesome or even great even if these are the bad guys. these three snipers will have to live with that the rest of their lives, its easy to say how great it is when you have never been in that situation or had to live with the outcome of said events
wake up at night seeing faces or have your spouce deal with the nightmares and mood swings, then come on here and tout your greatness.
I think there is a huge difference between the admiration of the snipers' skill, wanting the pirates dealt with, and thinking that killing is a good thing.
No nightmares, Wareagle, no nightmares at all. No remorse. Instead, an occasional pleasant dream of Capt. Phillips surrounded by his family - knowing he was still alive.
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 08:31 AM
and people that say that have never been there
and people that say that have never been there
Wareagle, once upon a time, I was the first responder at a horrible car accident. Two young moms and two infants - 2 months old and 4 months old. I pulled both of those infants' mangled bodies out of the wreck. I spent 15 minutes trying to bring one of them back to life until we reached the hospital. I had nightmares about that for a very long time......
Some lives are precious and some have no redeeming value whatsoever.
They say that the eyes are a window to the soul. If you could ever look in my eyes, Wareagle, you would know, to the very core of your existence, you would know that I would never feel a split second of remorse if I had taken the life of one of those pirates. Of that, I am certain.
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 08:55 AM
like i said you never been there
i agree with some of what remy had said about other parts of the world seeing us as the terrorists and evil doers. we were fortunate to be born in this country and have the beleifs that you do, if you was born there you may have been brought up to see the americas as evil and vow to fight occupation and evil from your side, from your comfy desk it is very easy to be one sided and hypocritical.
as i have shared here before i was in somalia in 93 lost some good friends there, if any one has the right to be bitter i think i qualify, it is a lawless land course the same can be said for here with all the mass killings and gang violence, its just here we accept it better because we are civilized.
i am not saying that these actions were preventable but it amazes me how many of you who have never pulled a trigger can sit here and talk about it like it was a 4th and long call at the superbowl, until you have pulled a trigger, rode a bull, fought in a cage, climbed a mountain and been in the depth of it all you cannot say how you will deal with the aftermath. i guarantee that these well trained warriiors do not take delight in taking a life, it probably was a neccesary evil but one they must live with
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 08:58 AM
Wareagle, once upon a time, I was the first responder at a horrible car accident. Two young moms and two infants - 2 months old and 4 months old. I pulled both of those infants' mangled bodies out of the wreck. I spent 15 minutes trying to bring one of them back to life until we reached the hospital. I had nightmares about that for a very long time......
Some lives are precious and some have no redeeming value whatsoever.
They say that the eyes are a window to the soul. If you could ever look in my eyes, Wareagle, you would know, to the very core of your existence, you would know that I would never feel a split second of remorse if I had taken the life of one of those pirates. Of that, I am certain.
coming across death and desrtuction that you have had no hand in is hard but not the same, i also have trained and volunteered on a bls squad, but when you are directly responsible for causing that death it is a whole different scenario that you cannot comprehend, its like watching all these folks train for a situation until they live it and feel it they cannot possibly say how they would react as a lawer you should be aware of that
Chris
04-17-2009, 09:04 AM
You know what else is awesome?
Shortly after 9/11 when our operations started in Afganistan we had operatives helping Afgan rebel groups fight the Taliban. In one instance it was a very dark and cloudy day and the Taliban armored line was advancing. The tribal people told our operatives that it wouldn't be possible to call for air support because of the clouds. Our guys said "just wait" and pointed a laser at the Taliban forces. A few minutes later they were nailed by a barrage of smart bombs from above.
The capabilities of our armed forces are awesome, amazing, and impressive. And would hope that the brave men and women who carry out their duties sleep well at night because all they're doing is protecting us and helping people. Sometimes that means bad people have to die. The Pirates are not good people, the Taliban are not good people.
If you could go back in time and kill Adolf Hitler when he was 12 years old would you? This is a typical moral question often tossed out. I tell you what, I would. I imagine Ken would as well. I understand some people would not, some people are more sensitive than others. I'm kind of a hardass. I would strangle 100 adolf hitlers with my bare hands if it would prevent WW2.
These pirates are attacking innocent civilian ships that are often carrying food aid to gain hundreds of millions of dollars in ransom which they then spend to both live like kings among their starving countrymen and fund terrorism elsewhere. To allow them to continue, to allow them to get more hostages and kill more people, would in the end result in far more bloodshed than what three sniper bullets can cause. It is a good thing what was done, and those snipers should sleep well, and should be lauded for their skill and expertise.
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 09:08 AM
you say they are not good people because you have the luxory of sitting over here on this side, they beleive in what they are fighting for as they ahve fought their whole lives to defend, if you have been born there how would you feel? as for the pirates desperate times call for desperate measures, heck look at our onw country when times get tough.
Chris
04-17-2009, 09:08 AM
like i said you never been there
i agree with some of what remy had said about other parts of the world seeing us as the terrorists and evil doers. we were fortunate to be born in this country and have the beleifs that you do, if you was born there you may have been brought up to see the americas as evil and vow to fight occupation and evil from your side, from your comfy desk it is very easy to be one sided and hypocritical.
as i have shared here before i was in somalia in 93 lost some good friends there, if any one has the right to be bitter i think i qualify, it is a lawless land course the same can be said for here with all the mass killings and gang violence, its just here we accept it better because we are civilized.
i am not saying that these actions were preventable but it amazes me how many of you who have never pulled a trigger can sit here and talk about it like it was a 4th and long call at the superbowl, until you have pulled a trigger, rode a bull, fought in a cage, climbed a mountain and been in the depth of it all you cannot say how you will deal with the aftermath. i guarantee that these well trained warriiors do not take delight in taking a life, it probably was a neccesary evil but one they must live with
And this is a typical logical fallacy. We're not allowed to have an opinion on a topic unless we've personally experienced it?
I'm sorry I've never shot a Somali. I'm not going to fly over there and shoot one just so I can post my opinion on the Internet.
I also never liberated a concentration camp in WW2, I wasn't even born yet. But I can still have an opinion on the treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany can't I?
Ya sure, if one of those snipers does have nightmares, I'm probably not the guy for them to confide in because I'd have absolutely 0 insight into their issue. But, I'm sure you don't actually have to have shot someone in the line of duty to have an opinion on a military operation, no?
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 09:11 AM
one more thought and i'm done with this
when the taliban was fighting the russians we thought they were great and was willing to overlok their religous beleifs, we even backed osama and trained and supplied him, have they changed or have we?
wareagle69
04-17-2009, 09:12 AM
And this is a typical logical fallacy. We're not allowed to have an opinion on a topic unless we've personally experienced it?
I'm sorry I've never shot a Somali. I'm not going to fly over there and shoot one just so I can post my opinion on the Internet.
I also never liberated a concentration camp in WW2, I wasn't even born yet. But I can still have an opinion on the treatment of the Jews in Nazi Germany can't I?
Ya sure, if one of those snipers does have nightmares, I'm probably not the guy for them to confide in because I'd have absolutely 0 insight into their issue. But, I'm sure you don't actually have to have shot someone in the line of duty to have an opinion on a military operation, no?
i emphaticly whole heartedly 100 percent disagree
Chris
04-17-2009, 09:14 AM
you say they are not good people because you have the luxory of sitting over here on this side, they beleive in what they are fighting for as they ahve fought their whole lives to defend, if you have been born there how would you feel? as for the pirates desperate times call for desperate measures, heck look at our onw country when times get tough.
So Wareagle, how do you feel about women's rights, torture, are you for torture? Do you think women should be beaten and not allowed to be educated, and raped by their husbands? You're saying that the Taliban are bad people is just a matter of where I'm standing. So okay, from where you stand, why don't you think women have the right to not be raped?
That is a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer it.
And the pirates, are a hell of a lot richer than me. You can't say I have access to a better life because I was born in the US. They could come here and buy every foreclosed house in Detroit and never work again. Of course, they'd be in Detroit, but still. Is it the pain of having all that money and guns and living like kings in their country that makes them do this? Its gotta be rough, being multimillionaire pirates, probably with a harem too. Rough life that.
They don't even have an ideal they're fighting for. Its money, all about money.
They are bad people.
Chris
04-17-2009, 09:15 AM
nevermind too they are interfering with food aid shipments that could feed starving somalis who aren't multimillionaire pirates with harems.
Wareagle, in order to feel that way, one would first have to view the deceased as human beings. I don't. I look at them as animals wh have taken a human form. By their actions, they not only place their captors at risk of death, they also place the innocent starving children of their own country at risk of death as well.
Call me jaded. In the course of my life, I have encountered far too many people who have no redeeming social value whatsoever - people who exist for the sole purpose of victimizing others. They act like animals - they ARE animals - sociopaths - but they are not human by my definition. They are like a cancer on society and should be removed with no more remorse than a surgeon should have when removing a tumor.
Alpine_Sapper
04-17-2009, 09:21 AM
you say they are not good people because you have the luxory of sitting over here on this side, they beleive in what they are fighting for as they ahve fought their whole lives to defend, if you have been born there how would you feel? as for the pirates desperate times call for desperate measures, heck look at our onw country when times get tough.
You were in Somalia and you are still defending this bs? WTF is wrong with you?
I think you have survivor's guilt.
I'm glad they were killed.
You can cast accusations at me such as "You've never been there", but you don't know that do you? Every single person that has ever taken a life deals with it differently. The fact remains that due to a trio of our elite soldiers one of our citizens has been returned safely to his family, and three criminal militants who enacted an assault on our nation and our people have been dealt with according to their own standards. I'm proud of our boys. And like myself, I don't think they'll lose a bit of sleep over it.
If you could go back in time and kill Adolf Hitler when he was 12 years old would you? This is a typical moral question often tossed out. I tell you what, I would. I imagine Ken would as well.
Without a doubt. And, with full knowledge of what I had just done, I'd sit down to a fine meal, joke with my family and friends, and go to bed and sleep soundly for the entire night.
And just in case you're wondering, I do value life and do sympathize with the less fortunate. Like many of you, I've nursed injured birds and animals back to health, handed a bag of groceries to some of the guys holding the "Hungry, will work for food" signs, and volunteered in a number of charitable efforts with my friends.
Pirates? I wouldn't **** on them if they were on fire.
When I grow up I want to be a millionaire pirate with a harem. I'd be a nice pirate, though. I'd play Pirates of the Caribbean all day long on the TV and walk around saying, "Arrrrr!" a lot. Oh, and a parrot. I'd have to have a parrot. Parrots are cool.
Yeah, me and Rick are gonna be bulletproof (as in why bother shooting those two #$###!!'s?) but seriously, I can see WE's and Remy's point and agree with it. I doubt that the professionals who did the job take any particular pleasure in, and I'd also add that I'm sure they take the pirates and their capabilities a lot more seriously than anyone posting here does.
Pal334
04-17-2009, 12:30 PM
Well, I do have a bit of perspective on this, A tour in Vietnam ,Mayaguez Rescue team member, Grenada, Somalia, First Gulf War, and two tours in the current sandbox tussle. Never enjoyed any of it. Several good friends did not come back. I do have some bad dreams, but have absolutely no regrets. These "pirates" took a course of action that included visiting violence and mayhem on unarmed mariners, and got their just deserts. Will this stop the problem? Probably not, but there are now 3 fewer players on the field. Any difficulties "dealing" with this are best born by professional military folks, and not non combatant civilians.
Sarge47
04-17-2009, 08:29 PM
Yes, I think those Seals were Awesome, & what WE has posted makes it seem even more so for me. Look what they're going to have to live with just to save the life of one American!
I also think France is awesome, they're also not taking any doo-doo from these guys.
And furthermore; YES, the pirates are the bad guys, who cares how many of them are millionaires? Who cares if the pirate trying to take you hostage, or beating the crap out of you, or killing your co-workers & friends is well-heeled or not?
We're the GOOD GUYS! Why? Because I say so! Good & bad are relative terms fixed in the "eye of the beholder". I don't think that if it was my family in danger & I'm the guy with my finger on the trigger I'm going to even think about how much sleep I might lose over it; that's what sedatives & counseling are for! Go after me & mine...You're the BAD GUYS &, if I got anything to say about it, you're dead! End of story!:smash:
Great shooting Seals! Viva La France! Yo Pirates....K.M.A.!:sneaky2:
Chris
04-17-2009, 09:37 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_on_re_us/piracy_captain_42
The captain calls them superheroes. Not quite awesome, but close enough for me to claim agreement ;)
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yellowcab
04-30-2026, 05:58 AM
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04-30-2026, 05:59 AM
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