What will you do?

[Smok]

I am a Christian and I do not know how many of you are :sailor:? ....But that has not one thing to do with this Question LOL :innocent: ...Here goes when the government does away with money they will go to a Card first , they will then go to chipping and you all know the rest of that story :spam: ... So here is the Question if you where not going to be Chipped then what do you do ? We know that it is very hard to live off the land , you would need a garden . so you need to get it now so that you have it later , you will need to keep a very low profile . Would you stay in the USA ? I would think it would be easier to keep track of someone here , but I may but wrong on that one , so I am asking what would be the best way to keep away from the ........ALL SEEING EYE....:phone:..:sneaky2:

[Arsey]

Poke your finger in it.

[marylp]

Not sure, the technology for chipping already exists. I think we will recieve heavenly guidance.

[Pal334]

I doubt any of the above will happen. So the "all seeing eye"just is not a concenr for me. The "eye" can see alot, just don't think it willbe as you described.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Not sure, the technology for chipping already exists. I think we will recieve heavenly guidance.

lol. So we'll continue to run around blindly bumping into the proverbial wall like rats in a maze. That's nice to know.

I agree with Pal334. I don't see it happening. I think some may try, but there's always been those that think they know how to live your life better than you and want to force you into their vision of a utopian future. The problem is that there is enough diversity as to what that utopian vision is I don't think it will get pushed through the legislation.

[Rick]

I take it this weighs pretty heavy on your mind? That's okay, we all have things we're concerned about. Nothing wrong in asking the question, either. That's how we learn.

Here's your post from last year.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1969&highlight=RFID

[crashdive123]

I'll stick with the answer I gave last year.

[rrsnook]

I'll say no to the chip. I prefer a mark of some sort, either on the forehead or right hand.

[Smok]

:blushing: Oh OK I will stop

[crashdive123]

No reason to stop Smok. As Rick said, if it's something that worries or concerns you then ask. A lot of folks signed up since you asked a year ago. You might gain some new perspective.

[Rick]

No reason to stop. There's a lot of newbies that have signed on after the other post. So they get to read through it. Like Pal said, I don't think there is much of a chance of it happening. But there are a LOT of folks that would disagree with me. Who knows, maybe it won't be an implanted RFID, maybe it will be your cell phone or your digital watch.

The RFID chip is a little old fashioned. He's a sneak peek at a new device they are using right here in my neck of the woods.

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/index.jsp?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3ARaces+and+PlacesForum%3A111 1072973Discussion%3A8841033965&plckCategoryCurrentPage=0

[Alpine_Sapper]

. Who knows, maybe it won't be an implanted RFID, maybe it will be your cell phone or your digital watch.

The RFID chip is a little old fashioned.


RFID Drivers license debated in 04:
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2004/10/65243

Cloned in 2006:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hackers_clone_r.html

Implemented as a border security measure along with RFID passports in 2007:
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/308864_border24.html

Electronic passports hacked within minutes, August 2008. MINUTES!
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/08/07/electronic-passports-hacked-within-minutes-engineer-says/

New York using RFID drivers license, Sept, 2008:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/09/new-york-offers.html

And some BS article because I missed closing the tab. Relevant to the topic.
Doesn't really seem credible;
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001781.html

Now, how long do you think it will be, with the current administrations push to get your medical records online, before they link your drivers license or id, which has an RFID in it, to bank accounts, citizenzhip(passport), and medical records. What else do you need? Prison and military service? Done. NCIS? Done.

RFID Doesn't have the capability to do gps style tracking you say?
It can only be as good as 50m or so from the scanner you say?

While initiating getting everything globalized and everybody barcoded , how long before some enterprising government funded R&D team replaces the RFID technology with a wafer of silicone that is the size of a credit card, contains your UID, and has gps functionality? Don't have your card? Don't pass the checkpoint.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the military implement something just like this with their new ID's? Isn't it white and red with a little gold wafer circuit on it?

EDIT: I am aware the new military ID's are not GPS's, at least I don't think they are. But I do believe they have LES statements, medical records, service records, etc. all tied to them, and they just scan your card to pull it from the database, yes?

As far as implanting it, I retract my statements earlier in this thread. It's a distinct possibility within 20 years. They'll take guns first, but...

[Alpine_Sapper]

Sorry for the long, double post, but here's one more article I found relevant;

The requirement to use the internet for transfer of medical records per the stimulus package:
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/david-york/emr-software-and-electronic-medical-records-blog/obamas-stimulus-package-may-lead-me


Here ya go, Smok. I found those with a few quick google searches. I spent more time crafting this post than it took me to find the trends.

You can form your own opinions on where it's going.

[LindyLu]

I think the rapiidity of events over the past 2 months, have amazed all of us as well as frightening many. There seems to be no slowing and it's very scary for many. I'm not sure what we each can do other than prep as best we can and stand tall. At this point I think all sane bets are off. Where will be be this time next year?
Blessings To All, LindyLu

[Rick]

Now, how long do you think it will be, with the current administrations push to get your medical records online, before they link your drivers license or id, which has an RFID in it, to bank accounts, citizenzhip(passport), and medical records.

Judging from past efficiencies, a very long time. Remember, this is a government that hasn't figured out how to link it's police agencies for information sharing, did such an outstanding job in Katrina, can't craft a viable energy policy, has a pretty lousy record controlling its own borders and can't seem to control sensitive information in any of its branches. A long time.


Where will be be this time next year?

Sitting right here asking where will we be next year.

Does anyone honestly believe there is a politician that would vote for having anything implanted in people involuntarily? And even if they did, even if they did, how long would it be before some enterprising anarchist figured out how to erase all the data on them and bootleg what information you wanted instead...for a price, of course.

You already have a passport, drivers license, social security number, a phone number an address, credit card numbers....get the picture?

Remember when you were a kid and HAD to say the pledge of allegiance. Think about that. Forcing children to pledge their allegiance to the country. Sounds like something we would have expected from 1930s Germany. I'll bet there are few younger people that even know the words today. The point is, if a government truly wants control of the population, they start by indoctrinating the children. In 20 years you have a population that WANTS to follow government dogma because they believe it is correct. You don't start by beating old men into submission. You might get them to walk a straight line but you'll never get them to believe in it. You start with the kids. Just my .02.

[crashdive123]

The point is, if a government truly wants control of the population, they start by indoctrinating the children.Not to sound all conspiratorial, but sadly I fear that is what many in our public education system are attempting to do.

[wildography]

I am a Christian and I do not know how many of you are :sailor:? ....But that has not one thing to do with this Question LOL :innocent: ...Here goes when the government does away with money they will go to a Card first , they will then go to chipping and you all know the rest of that story :spam: ... So here is the Question if you where not going to be Chipped then what do you do ? We know that it is very hard to live off the land , you would need a garden . so you need to get it now so that you have it later , you will need to keep a very low profile . Would you stay in the USA ? I would think it would be easier to keep track of someone here , but I may but wrong on that one , so I am asking what would be the best way to keep away from the ........ALL SEEING EYE....:phone:..:sneaky2:

There is a lot of information available on the net re: your above. If you like, email/message me and I can send you a couple of web sites that I check regularly. But, to answer your questions... you got it pretty much right; the "card" technology is already here - think the today's equivalent of WWII's ration system for food/gas/etc. The "chipping" thing is already in use (on pets its becoming more popular; for humans, its very limited in use, right now). A low profile is your best option; GOOGLE search "safe areas" or "refuge"; there are certain areas of the country (USA) that are thought to be "safe areas". Look on Google maps for one example: north & east of Durango, CO/west of Pueblo, CO/south-east of Gunnison, CO - that triangle of area. There are about 5 "areas" in the 'lower 48' that are considered to be "best bets" with, of course, smaller pockets of "safe areas" all around the country.

Awareness, observation, practice, training, information, and preparation are the keys to "avoiding" the "all-seeing eye". Wherever I go, I have made a "practice" of looking for CCTV cameras... mostly for "fun" and for "practice". I've spotted 'em in fake sprinkler heads, "fake" lights, and of course, tucked away in corners, etc.

But, fundamentally, such a situation as you describe - effectively an EOTWAWKI situation - requires trust in something other than yourself... (hint/hint).

[Rick]

I also believe there is a lot of censorship in public educations. Groups forcing their own agenda. Probably why so many home school today.

I see home schooling as positive reinforcement that the government is not all that interested in controlling our personal lives. That would be one of the first things outlawed if it wanted to control young minds.

[wildography]

... Remember when you were a kid and HAD to say the pledge of allegiance. Think about that. Forcing children to pledge their allegiance to the country. Sounds like something we would have expected from 1930s Germany. I'll bet there are few younger people that even know the words today. The point is, if a government truly wants control of the population, they start by indoctrinating the children. In 20 years you have a population that WANTS to follow government dogma because they believe it is correct.

GOOD point! I can't even remember the time when I saw 'the pledge...' in print somewhere; don't even know if they teach that in school anymore... do they? And re: the children.... if anyone gets bored... take at a bill in Congress, right now, re: Americorps. I don't want to get off topic... but, if you look at a wide variety of news sources... you start to put together "pieces of a puzzle".

[RunsWithDeer]

Smok, you began your post with the statement that you are a Christian, and then say it has no relevance to your question. Maybe it does, since the bible describes as a sign of the end times everyone getting the mark of the devil. Chips, tattoo ID codes and such can be interpreted as that mark. Well, if the end is coming soon, then at least be as prepared as you can, spiritually and physically.

[Rick]

Ah, let's not run off down the religion path. It's against the rules.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Judging from past efficiencies, a very long time. Remember, this is a government that hasn't figured out how to link it's police agencies for information sharing, did such an outstanding job in Katrina, can't craft a viable energy policy, has a pretty lousy record controlling its own borders and can't seem to control sensitive information in any of its branches. A long time.

I see your point, but I disagree with the time frame. I'm pretty positive that they will get behind this initiative, and with 10 years have the RFID drivers license mandated across all 50 states, or no more federal funding. Just like they did with the drinking limit. If a state chose not to raise it to 21, cool, no problem, no more funds for roads, schools etc. until you comply.

As far as the horrible track records you provide, agreed, they've dropped the ball many times. But if you look at the track record of the articles I provided, obviously they don't care about controlling sensitive information THAT much, theirs or ours. See, the majority of the sheeple will comply with the RFID drivers license and globalized repository of data for accessing your information. Anyone that is an anomaly in the system (i.e.: you stand out for NOT having an RFID drivers license) is then fairly subjected to undue scrutiny because they have no ID.

I know this hasn't happened to most of the members on here as your all good upstanding members of society, Did you know it is a crime to not have an ID on you in todays society? Drivers license, or ID, it doesn't matter. The cop has to be able to positively ID you. If not, they can detain you until they are able to verify your identity. If they lose patience? They just run you in on a class C misdemeanor until the fingerprint ID comes back at the station. I've literally sat on the side of the road, in handcuffs, with 5 other people, for 3 hours because one 15 year old girl did not have a drivers license or ID and the trooper wouldn't just call her parents, he wanted to go through dispatch to try and verify her. 15! She didn't even HAVE and ID yet! . Why did he pull us over? You might say it was because we looked suspicious. I'm sure that crew would have at least drawn his attention walking down the street. But no, he pulled us over because he randomly ran our plates and the owner of the vehicle had a warrant for failure to appear on a traffic ticket. She wasn't even in the vehicle.



Sitting right here asking where will we be next year.



I'm setting a reminder in my google calendar to revisit this topic in a year, just for s***'s and grins. I'd like to see if your above prediction is right, or if my suspicions are correct and they do push ahead with this.



Does anyone honestly believe there is a politician that would vote for having anything implanted in people involuntarily? And even if they did, even if they did, how long would it be before some enterprising anarchist figured out how to erase all the data on them and bootleg what information you wanted instead...for a price, of course.


No, I don't believe they would vote for forcing people to get chipped. Everything I've said in support of this theory has not been about being "chipped" by being implanted, but by putting in an ID or drivers license and then FORCING you to have that for the various activities you want to complete, such as grocery shopping or registering a gun or dog. (Which they are trying to start assigning a fee to and force registration numbers, higher fees for unsterilized animals, etc.) You can check the AKC website for current legislation they are fighting.)

However, if they can get that going in 5 years, what's to say 15 years later they don't make it "voluntary" and make it such and inconvenient PITA that "everyone does it". Again, those that don't are the anamoly and will be subjected to undue scrutiny.



You already have a passport, drivers license, social security number, a phone number an address, credit card numbers....get the picture?


Yes. how easy would it be to consolidate those data sources? All they have to do is write one central application that can access all of those systems until each system can be switched over to a universal format. Time consuming? Yes. Resource Intensive? Yes.

But hey, it's part of the "Hope" we are driving towards, and part of the economic stimulus package. All that consolidation and co-ordination work is going to create jobs, you know. Let's start with health care...



Remember when you were a kid and HAD to say the pledge of allegiance. Think about that. Forcing children to pledge their allegiance to the country. Sounds like something we would have expected from 1930s Germany. I'll bet there are few younger people that even know the words today. The point is, if a government truly wants control of the population, they start by indoctrinating the children. In 20 years you have a population that WANTS to follow government dogma because they believe it is correct. You don't start by beating old men into submission. You might get them to walk a straight line but you'll never get them to believe in it. You start with the kids. Just my .02.



They HAVE indoctrinated the children. Every single one of them has a cell phone, an IPOD, a myspace account. It's all about consolidation. Let's take their internet life for example. Everyone wanted the social networking sites consolidated. Now you can integrate myspace, facebook, twitter, AIM, Yahoo cat etc. all into one neat little device that you carry around with you that has a Network Unique ID and GPS or at the very least the ability to triangulate your position based on you passing data to the cell towers.

The whole chipping for the club scene bit...How many 21 year old kids do you know that would give it a second thought, or even look up from their iPhone? Most I know would keep texting while holding out their arm to receive the implant. They don't fear technology the way a lot of adults do. They have been inundated with it since Berners Lee introduced the world wide web and the push for a always on broadband connection in every house started. We're even doing it to children in third world countries. Sure, we say it's to help their development educationally, and it is, but that's only the primary effect. It helps integrate kids who can't get food that technology is a wonderous and miraculous thing, and the shiny blinky gifts from the armani suited white man are a good thing.

(Google the "laptop for every child" foundation or whatever. It's that green crank powered laptop.)

And yes, to this day I can still remember the pledge of allegiance. Which just goes to further my point. Our kids aren't nationalized, their globalized. We took that out to make other nationalities happy and to ensure equality, blah blah blah. We are slowly but surely becoming a society where anything offensive to another person is banned. Freedom of speech? Sure. Just don't get sued for libel or slander. One helluva an example our President is setting with his "Truth Squad" no?

After thinking on some of my previous comments further, I don't think it will be guns that get outlawed. I think it will be the 2nd amendment being repealed first, and then it will become a crime to do anything violent that disturbs the peaceful serenity of society. In San Antonio you can't even carry a lock blade, or fixed blade. The only blade you can carry around in the city unless it is to or from work is a small non-locking pocket knife (i.e. swiss army).

[Ken]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

[tennecedar]

Thank you Ken. It had been a long time since I read that. Stirs up some emotions. I've got some more reading to do now.

[Alpine_Sapper]

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

how long before they reword that because it references a "creator"? You can argue that you still have your liberty as long as they know who you are...blah blah blah.

Not to take anything away from the power of words quoted at all. What that group of individuals did when writing that document has defined a large part of who I am.

What really scares me and kinda has me thinking along the lines of Smok, that this may become a reality, is that in general, Society seems to be growing weaker and more complacent. The type of individual that frequents this board is the exception. I searched for a conversation, but I couldn't find it. Someone made a statement along the lines of "I'm the type of guy that people love to have around in an emergency, but the rest of the time they never want to see me". Survivalists have always been "fringe" and I think the mainstream societal consensus will be to lay down like a beaten dog and take this.

You may have rebellions, but, while I admire their courage and tenacity, and they were never beaten, did the tactics the IRA use really work? No. Eventually it just turned everyone against THEM for the bloodshed, and Sean Finn is now the only option. How are they handling it? Just fine. They like licking the Crown's boots Not that I wouldn't be one of the rebels doing everything I could to stop it, but being that outarmed the outlook is grim.

Lol. To an extent I'm just kinda playing devils advocate here and playing the tape all the way through. Someone can tell me to shut up at anytime.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Where the hell is Remy? I'd kind like to hear his perspective on this...

[Rick]

I see your point, but I disagree with the time frame. I'm pretty positive that they will get behind this initiative, and with 10 years have the RFID drivers license mandated across all 50 states

Sorry. My rant was on implantation. I agree with you on this one. RFIDs offer a cost effective way to transport information so it only makes sense that it will happen. Not just driver's license but throughout our lives. If you read through the other post on this, RFIDS can tell your washing machine how to wash your shirt or tell your microwave how to cook your lunch. Inevitiable.


They HAVE indoctrinated the children. Every single one of them has a cell phone, an IPOD, a myspace account. It's all about consolidation. Let's take their internet life for example. Everyone wanted the social networking sites consolidated. Now you can integrate myspace, facebook, twitter, AIM, Yahoo cat etc. all into one neat little device that you carry around with you that has a Network Unique ID and GPS or at the very least the ability to triangulate your position based on you passing data to the cell towers.

I think it says a lot more about advertising and mass marketing than it does about government. No different than smoking advertisements of the '40s, '50s and '60s. Again, reaching out to the kiddies.


Which just goes to further my point. Our kids aren't nationalized, their globalized.The natural extension of clan, tribe, village, city, state, country. We grow and expand. Globalization was always the natural end game. Who knows, some day we may be saying buy Earth and admonishing Martian imports (I'm assume we colonize and not some alien thingy).


The whole chipping for the club scene bit.Already happening. I posted on that in the other thread.

You seem to have a whole lot more faith that our government is organized enough to pull off some conspiracy of, frankly, gigantic proportions. I don't think it's that good. Don't get me wrong, I support our government. It's the best thing going. But the truth is it's very fragmented with each department concerned about their own well being. If our government were an ant hill each ant (department) would be in it for themselves. You see them all working together toward a more or less common goal. I just don't think the government, as a whole, is that capable. Only a dictatorship, monarchy or some other form of autoacracy has the real ability to control all aspects of the government. I'd be a lot more concerned if I lived in North Korea, Libya or some similar place. "Big Brother or "Chancellor Palpatine" would stand a better chance of existing in those places.

IMHO, of course.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Sorry. My rant was on implantation. I agree with you on this one. RFIDs offer a cost effective way to transport information so it only makes sense that it will happen. Not just driver's license but throughout our lives. If you read through the other post on this, RFIDS can tell your washing machine how to wash your shirt or tell your microwave how to cook your lunch. Inevitiable.

yeah, I looked at implementing some of the X10 stuff for people as a side business but dropped it for various reasons. Good hobby stuff though.



I think it says a lot more about advertising and mass marketing than it does about government. No different than smoking advertisements of the '40s, '50s and '60s. Again, reaching out to the kiddies.

Viral marketing schemes are the way everything is done now. It's what today's generations are programmed to respond to.



You seem to have a whole lot more faith that our government is organized enough to pull off some conspiracy of, frankly, gigantic proportions. I don't think it's that good. Don't get me wrong, I support our government. It's the best thing going. But the truth is it's very fragmented with each department concerned about their own well being. If our government were an ant hill each ant (department) would be in it for themselves. You see them all working together toward a more or less common goal. I just don't think the government, as a whole, is that capable.

lol. Not really. I'm not saying it's a government conspiracy or anything. I'm just saying that for ease of management this is the system we are headed towards. It all depends on your viewpoint. Some people will see it as a utopian future where they can blissfully skate through life, and others will see it as an Orwellian nightmare of gargantuan proportions. I personally see it as a new system with the same flaw as the old system, human error. Eventually they'll get most of the kinks worked out of the system, and it'll probably run about the same as it does now, just without the blockades in the data flows between systems. It'll still be the same old cycle of the bad guys trying to circumvent the system, the good guys re-acting and trying to be pro-active, and the general population having no real consensus about where to go because of such a diversity of viewpoints. There will just be a lot more concise "paper trail" for them to look at if they have reason to, since no matter what you do, your unique digital ID will be fingerprinted on it, and since they'll have your DNA attached to your ID (anyone who was in the military already has DNA on file, and if your kid has been fingerprinted by DARE or as part of a "field trip" to the police station, so is theres most likely. They were doing mouth swabs as well as prints here) any physical evidence you leave behind can then be associated to you as well.

I don't think it's a global conspiracy, but I do think criminal accountability is a large part of it. After all, "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." Right?

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Oops-DPS-Apologizes-for-Mistake-Listing-Woman-as-Sex-Offender.html

"The Texas Department of Public Safety apologized Friday and accepted blame for mistakenly posting a Dallas woman's name and photo on the state's sex offender Web site for nearly five years."



Only a dictatorship, monarchy or some other form of autoacracy has the real ability to control all aspects of the government. I'd be a lot more concerned if I lived in North Korea, Libya or some similar place. "Big Brother or "Chancellor Palpatine" would stand
a better chance of existing in those places.

And as far as "big brother", he's already here. No, I don't think he's monitoring all of my communications and following me, all that crap. But there have been several recent discussions about undue scrutiny from the feds based on basic keywords. Flag yourself on their radar, and boom, now they are, until they determine if you are a threat to national security. Isn't what all those domestic wiretapping news articles were about, guantanemo bay, the whole nine?

As far as chancellor Palpatine, I don't think there is anyone charismatic enough that has stepped up since Hitler. Kennedy maybe, but he didn't make it long enough. Obama is just an oily snake imho and while he is charismatic, is more self-centered and self-serving than anything else. However, I'm sure you remember the Haliburton scandal, and since I'm pretty sure you follow the news, are aware of a few others;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_oligarchy

Not that I think it's an oligarchy to the extent of Bilderburg or anything, but to me it appears that the country is going to get steered one way or the other depending on which good ol' boy network is in charge of it. We just shifted power to the new group. I'm sure I'm not the only one of you that is sitting back to watch how this unfolds.



IMHO, of course.
of course. same here.

[Rick]

Hmmm. I'll have to think up a good argument for something you said up there. It all makes too much sense for me to agree with.:thumbup1:

[Smok]

Well the chipping was only a small part of what I see . The money or cashless society is just as big of a concern . Here is one for you... You go to a yard sale and you buy some thing for $100.oo there is NO TAX paid on it and this goes on all the time .. Now with a card / chip or some other form of Cashless way then you will always be Taxed and they will always know what you are buying and doing .. They can stop you at any time by just closing down your card / chip no more money .. If we do not fall in line that is what they would do.....Here is another one ...It would be very hard to be an Illegal alien in a Cashless society no way for you to get paid

[Rick]

Well, you have that today in a Business to Business world and even in a Business to Consumer world. I purchase items all the time from manufacturers and no cash changes hands. And I pay no tax unless it happens to be an Intrastate purchase. I then turn around and sell that same commodity to end users and no cash changes hands. I don't charge sales tax either unless it happens to be an Intrastate sale.

I have to send in state sales tax on a periodic basis and I fill out the form as to what my sales are and what I owe in sales tax.

I understand what you are saying but 1) the technology exists today and isn't used and 2) you are referencing a cashless society, which is a federal mandate and comparing it to sales tax which is the jurisdiction of each state not the feds.

[Rick]

i am saying our towers will come equipped with vaginas and penises

And given my luck, my computer will be gay.

[trax]

So when I complain about my computer being f****d up, it really will be? I hop these sex crazed computers are equipped with some way to clean up after themselves. Now I have to look forward to one day walking into this room and seeing my computer laying back smoking a cigarette....

[tennecedar]

That would stop SHARING computers

[Alpine_Sapper]

rofl. somehow that was NOT what I was expecting. Anyway, thanks for the input Remy.
For all of you that don't remember the fu-fme drives, (which is such an old internet joke you can't even really find anything but passing references to it) There is a site that offers somethinng similar. I can't post a link, but if you google "fu-fme drive slashdong" you'll get it. :)

[SARKY]

Buy yourself the biggest damm magnet you can and perhaps a capaciter. this way you can incapacitate the dammed thingy. As to the living off the land... it's not easy but it is also not extremely difficult.

[Smok]

:noway::laugh::laugh::stuart: I am still laughing on that one .Remy your right there is big money in that tip of working Computer ..But I too did not expect you to go there ! But I would say we all needed the laugh Thank You ...Kind makes me rethink the hole chipping thing LOL LOL :w00t::oops:Just kidding

[Ole WV Coot]

Years ago I would have laughed, now I think over time it's possible. We are kinda backward around here. Still have the Pledge with under God, prayer and anthem before high school football games and nobody complains. We think what we want and if we don't care for it we keep our mouth shut. My grandkids were all home schooled because of the daughter in law's knowledge of the school system. I was surprised at the number of children being home schooled today. We have in WV & KY more enlistments than most states. I always hear complaints about the government, but no worries about implanted information. Like most of us Rednecks or Hillbillies we would resist something like this and we do or do not worship as we please. Guess we really are backward just like the liberal parts of the country describe us. We were never "forced" to say the pledge or stand and sing our anthem, we wanted it.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Years ago I would have laughed, now I think over time it's possible. We are kinda backward around here. Still have the Pledge with under God, prayer and anthem before high school football games and nobody complains. We think what we want and if we don't care for it we keep our mouth shut. My grandkids were all home schooled because of the daughter in law's knowledge of the school system. I was surprised at the number of children being home schooled today. We have in WV & KY more enlistments than most states. I always hear complaints about the government, but no worries about implanted information. Like most of us Rednecks or Hillbillies we would resist something like this and we do or do not worship as we please. Guess we really are backward just like the liberal parts of the country describe us. We were never "forced" to say the pledge or stand and sing our anthem, we wanted it.


Oh, you didn't know? Patriotism is sooooooooo George Bush....

[chiangmaimav]

Although I live in Thailand, even if I were still in US I wouldn't worry about this. The govt. cannot keep track of all the illegal aliens, much less try to keep track of all the legal citizens. The fact is, the government is not all that interested in you or me and what we are doing or where we are, unless we stop paying taxes, then maybe they will look. There are not enough resources to monitor the terrorist suspects in America. Why bother trying to keep track of everybody? This kind of idea is good for sci-fi movies and conspiracy theories, but as a practical matter it makes no sense. If everyone in America had a chip planted in them, who exactly would collect this information. How many people would the govt. need to employ for this? The real point is noone cares that much about what we are doing to spend the time and money on a gigantic mess like this.

[Smok]

That my friend is one point , the Govt is trying to put people back to work and those people need something to do , what better then to do this . They would start off looking for ?????? what ever the Gov wanted , just name the Poison or person LOL

[Rick]

What do you think the purpose of this would be? What would the government gain?

[chiangmaimav]

I used to work for a private organization which worked on a consultant basis with Dept. of Homeland Security. One of the major problems with domestic intelligence is there is already much more information collected than there are people to organize and analyze it. And this is just concerning terrorism suspects, which thankfully are a small percentage of the population. To try to do this with every person in US is physically impossible, and what would be the point? And going along with this hypothesis, if govt. were to hire the number of people it would take to do this, do you have any idea what that would cost, just in salaries and benfits, never mind the cost for the computers that would be required. on top of this, these billions of employees would all have to have security clearances, and who would do these millions of background checks. The Democrats had a breakdown over the NSA and military listening to phone calls to Afghanistan. Do you really think this Democratic administration is going to attempt this Big Brother scenario? What you are suggesting was pretty much what the Stasi did in east germany during the Cold War. it is posssible in a small, Communist state, but it is not in a large democratic one.

[trax]

AH HA! chiangmaimav, you're basing your premise on the notion that America is still a democratic state then!

(how was that Crash?)

[Rick]

Trax, watch Ken. Ken, watch Crash. Crash, watch Sarge. Sarge, watch Coot. Coot, keep an eye on the liqueur. Tennecedar, you watch Coot, too. Can't be too careful with the liqueur.

Pity the guy that has the job to chase down Native Dude and stick an RFID in him. He had better be well acclimated to the cold. He may be layin' out there a loooooong time.

[MatthewnOK]

Remy, I just thought of something. If are computers are going to be like you say, well then XP might mean Extra-*****. If you know what I mean :innocent

[Alpine_Sapper]

http://www.digitalangel.com/

We've talked about those guys before. They had a test program in south america where they were trying the GPS stuff. Mysteriously enough it went quietly away. Probably lack of funding.

[grundle]

I think Remy gave a nice summary of the possibilities. I think he is right on the mark.

If we examine the available technologies today we have multiple forms of wireless communication, we have extremely high throughput data pipes for consolidation of massive amounts of information. We have efficient storage capacity and amazingly we have strong search, analysis, and filtering algorithms for sorting all of that information.

I am not confused about where this will go. Being a technologist I can see the "direction of the road". More importantly all of this technology is growing at an exponential rate.

Look at how fast we have come from horse drawn carriages to being able to communicate with each other through "air waves". It took less than 100 years. The computer age has swept the world in less than 20 years. I do not think it will take much time for an "implantation/marking" movement to sweep the globe.

First I must say that it will be some sort of communication technology, but I cannot say what it will be. I cannot say it would be RFID for sure, but maybe something similar? With nano-tech growing rapidly it could hang on that technology. The main thing is that there are several pre-conditions that will have to be met.

1) The world will make a shift to a "global economy". This means that there will be a unification of currencies to make trade, commerce, etc. more convenient. We have already seen a huge step in this direction with the institution of the Euro. If the U.S. subjugates itself to "International Law" we could see a change in our currencies, although that seems so highly unlikely at this point in time. Russia and China recently began to talk about their desire to do just this.

2) There will have to be a compelling "altruistic" reason for these new technologies to be implanted or instituted. For me it is not so hard to believe that it could happen. Just as vaccinations seemed to be some brutal arcane method the world was quick to embrace it when the results were so powerfully apparent. Most likely this compelling reason is going to hinge on point number 1. With a global economy the implant will grant people accessibility to interacting into this new advanced, global, "one-world' (each one reach one) system.

It will be touted as a way to keep track of family and friends, for consolidating all your bills, transactions. Keeping current on your insurance, medical history, personal assets, submitting your taxes, tracking job history, credit history, etc. etc. With technology today we can have everything related to one person maintained in a central database for ease and convenience.

3) This movement will of course start voluntarily, but slowly gain momentum. As it grows a new shift will occur where governments will start to mandate participation. Rationale being that with the advent of technology and modern commerce paper currency is outdated. In order to give the earth and environment a break the destructive practice of minting mined metals and using paper for currency should be phased out and electronic currency would be the norm. At that point people would have no other alternative but to join or they would not be able to participate in the commerce system.

That is how I see it happening. I give this movement about 10 years to start and that is a conservative estimate.

[trax]

Trax, watch Ken. Ken, watch Crash. Crash, watch Sarge. Sarge, watch Coot. Coot, keep an eye on the liqueur. Tennecedar, you watch Coot, too. Can't be too careful with the liqueur.

Pity the guy that has the job to chase down Native Dude and stick an RFID in him. He had better be well acclimated to the cold. He may be layin' out there a loooooong time.

Native Dude's out there alright, he's watching Rick!

[Rick]

@ grundle. There is a huge leap that has to be made between technology and moral acceptance. I could see the scenario you described having greater potential than anything being forced on the population. To some degree, it's already here. This one is several years old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3697940.stm

How about the cop who's weapon will only fire if his RFID is next to the weapon?

How about home security or vehicle security?

How about no credit card? Just an RFID.

There are a lot of scenarios one can dream up that would make them acceptable. My only disclaimer has been I don't think the gov't will be able to force its use.

As for a world base currency? Just a matter of time. It's the natural progression in a global economy. There really isn't any reason to have as many currencies has the world has. If 100 dracmas are equal to one dollar then do away with the dracmas and give the guy a dollar (or Euros or Yin or whatever it turns out to be). Then he competes one to one in the world economy.

Good post. You did a nice a job.

[grundle]

Rick - I agree its usage will not have to be enforced. My premise was not that governments will have to force people to use it, but rather the impetus to be able to participate in economy will naturally "herd" most people in that direction.

In today's society when things become inconvenient people "fall in line". Most people would rather take the easy way than suffer any sort of inconvenience. Heck most people have no clue what to do if their most basic life necessities suddenly disappeared.

You are right about possible scenarios. I really don't know the specifics, I can only point in the general direction.

[chiangmaimav]

This scenario would never be accepted by American public. Not only that it would be impossibly expensive and noone has the time, the money or the inclination to stick chips in everyone and monitor their every movement. Anyone who has worked in intelligence or surveillance can testify to this. There may someday be elimination of hard currency in America but it will be a long time b efore the rest of the world gets to that point. In some countries here in SE Asia they dont even have ATM machines.

[grundle]

This scenario would never be accepted by American public. Not only that it would be impossibly expensive and noone has the time, the money or the inclination to stick chips in everyone and monitor their every movement. Anyone who has worked in intelligence or surveillance can testify to this. There may someday be elimination of hard currency in America but it will be a long time b efore the rest of the world gets to that point. In some countries here in SE Asia they dont even have ATM machines.

That is why it has to be a progressive movement. Starting first as a voluntary program and slowly evolving to the scenario I described.

The idea is not to "monitor every movement". You would run pattern analysis algorithms. Anything that deviates from an acceptable pattern curve would raise a flag that might be considered for further checking.

I don't think that this would be a terribly expensive venture from the "implanting" side of the project. The major expense would be the back-end infrastructure for consolidating all the personal information and maintaining the various transactions and pertinent daily logged activity. This is also a very doable project from todays technological perspective.

What I am describing is not out of the realm of imagination. You do bring up a very compelling point though. There are plenty of countries in South East Asia, Africa, and South America that are far behind technologically speaking.

[Alpine_Sapper]

That is why it has to be a progressive movement. Starting first as a voluntary program and slowly evolving to the scenario I described.

The idea is not to "monitor every movement". You would run pattern analysis algorithms. Anything that deviates from an acceptable pattern curve would raise a flag that might be considered for further checking.

I don't think that this would be a terribly expensive venture from the "implanting" side of the project. The major expense would be the back-end infrastructure for consolidating all the personal information and maintaining the various transactions and pertinent daily logged activity. This is also a very doable project from todays technological perspective.

What I am describing is not out of the realm of imagination. You do bring up a very compelling point though. There are plenty of countries in South East Asia, Africa, and South America that are far behind technologically speaking.

The infrastructure will already be in place from the drivers license, and as far as third world countries, if you don't let them leave without the id, then they are kept in the jungle in a primitive lifestyle and really no threat to anyone until their resources run out, and then they are assimilated.

[crashdive123]

Tomorrow I'm cutting the grass.

[tennecedar]

You not having ATM machines does not prevent us from having them.

Tomorrow, you will need a "passport" to enter Manhattan.
Tomorrow, you will have no more plane tickets on paper or needs for your paper/plastic ID.
Tomorrow, worlds lagging technologies will fall into deeper depth...we will eventually forget about them.
Tomorrow, you will think actions, and they will materialized inorganically.
Tomorrow, failing body parts will be repaired through nano-technology.
Tomorrow, your children will have holographic companions.


Tomorrow, the connected world, the only world, will disconnect us from nature to a point where being will mean existing, and existing will mean hive-ing.
All connected, yet all disconnected.
All seeing, yet all blind.


Didn't Keanu Reeves star in that?

[grundle]

The infrastructure will already be in place from the drivers license, and as far as third world countries, if you don't let them leave without the id, then they are kept in the jungle in a primitive lifestyle and really no threat to anyone until their resources run out, and then they are assimilated.

You misunderstand Alpine Sapper. The infrastructure from the Driver's License is only one aspect of a person's life. You still have to consolidate their salary, their assets including credit holdings (such as mortgage and car loans etc.) All of that must be connected with a banking institution(s). Don't forget any stock holdings, mutual funds, retirement benefits, any and all insurances held by that person.

All of those things which involve multiple companies would have to be consolidated and organized. That entails writing up a standardization document and then submitting it to those organizations so that they can update their systems to comply with the new standard.

The most recent event that followed a similar vein, but not quite as extensive, that I can think of would be Sarbanes Oxley compliance.

As for the third world countries, they would have a huge burden to establish an adequate technological infrastructure before being able to cooperate. Not an easy task for many of them, who are more focused on infighting and local politics than engaging in the world economy.

This is definitely an interesting discussion. There are many sides that deserve to be explored, but I do think that what I outlined as the end-result is ineviteable

[Rick]

We have that, to a large extent, today. Although fragmented between agencies, departments and retailers. The marketing card you use at the grocery store, driver's license, social security and all the rest are really the very same thing we are talking about. It's just not consolidated into a single platform, whatever that might turn out to be. I must have 30 travelers cards between various airlines' frequent flier miles, rental car and hotel frequent stay cards. One device that could intelligently handle all of my transactions would be an interesting offering. Add in some of the things above such as home and car security, passwords for investment and financial institutions and it would almost sell itself. You wouldn't have to develop a bizarre scenario such as implantation either. Just carry on your person. If it becomes impossible to operate without it you've accomplished the same thing essentially.

[trax]

Didn't Keanu Reeves star in that?

Yes he did. And far be it from me to take a thread off topic, but apparently he's now starring in "the Day the World Stood Still" I'm thinking if it's based on anything Keanu does, how will they know?

[Ole WV Coot]

I don't worry much about our government controlling me or much of anything else. My personal experience having taken money for services rendered to them is very simple.
Our Government can screw up a two car funeral without outside help.

[Alpine_Sapper]

You misunderstand Alpine Sapper. The infrastructure from the Driver's License is only one aspect of a person's life. You still have to consolidate their salary, their assets including credit holdings (such as mortgage and car loans etc.) All of that must be connected with a banking institution(s). Don't forget any stock holdings, mutual funds, retirement benefits, any and all insurances held by that person.

All of those things which involve multiple companies would have to be consolidated and organized. That entails writing up a standardization document and then submitting it to those organizations so that they can update their systems to comply with the new standard.

The most recent event that followed a similar vein, but not quite as extensive, that I can think of would be Sarbanes Oxley compliance.

As for the third world countries, they would have a huge burden to establish an adequate technological infrastructure before being able to cooperate. Not an easy task for many of them, who are more focused on infighting and local politics than engaging in the world economy.

This is definitely an interesting discussion. There are many sides that deserve to be explored, but I do think that what I outlined as the end-result is ineviteable

The two main primary functions are licensing and healthcare. If they can roll your drivers license into an all encompassing license, so once they run your number they can verify your ability to drive a car, own a gun, own a dog, or anything else that requires a registration/background check, then it makes it easy. Then they tie your NCIS information to it, and ensure all local law enforcement has entered the digital age and is sharing information. That piece of it is right around the corner no matter what. As well as integrating your healthcare information with it. Now, anyone with common sense can see that that is oh, a 5 year plan if fasttracked. While that is going on, they implement theonline healthcare, which was part of the stimulus package. If you don't believe me, go look up the details of Obama's package and see for yourself. So by the end of those five years they will have almost everything but your NCIS information and your financial information tied to it. If during those five years they ensure that they have one centralized application that can reference the databases those systems are currently using, they can then simply roll everyone out to an interface for that application for their department such as the DMV or the Police, and they have access to their little piece of the pie with all the systems being integrated. I'm not saying it's a global conspiracy, but you said it yourself when referencing Sarbaines Oxley. Essentially, ok, policy has changed, now you must comply with x regulations by x year or you can't function as a business anymore. They did it to the auto industry repeatedly with the California Emissions Regulations and that's just one example. Previously I mentioned the drinking age. There are tons more examples where our government has done EXACTLY that. The NCIS system itself is an example of what I'm talking about. A bunch of individual little pieces, each with their own jurisdiction, all lumped into one information sharing system. They didn't roll it out overnight. The bigger cites implement it first and then it has a trickle down effect until it has completely saturated it's target market.

As for the 3rd world countries, what I'm saying is that if they implement this within the united states, and during that time they try to "globalize" the system, let's just say Obama get's elected to a second term, and during this term our relationship with France and Germany get's even stronger. At that point, how hard would it be to convince the EU to adopt that system and move forward? Ok, so anyone not in NATO, (Iraq, North Korea, et all) has to either get on board, or can't travel to those countries. Just like with the electronic passports. The states that refused to adopt it will not be provided federally regulated travel services (airplanes) to their citizens after 2011 or whatever. In other words, do it or we make it SO inconvienant you can't do it any other way. But you don't HAVE to do it...) So if you are in a third world country, you cannot leave without getting integrated into the system. If you want to leave ethiopia and get to the US, or Brittain, or anywhere else, "I'm sorry sir, but we cannot approve your Visa until you have completed the Globalized ID process and have been issued a proper ID. Please fill out these forms declaring your PHP, bank account information, criminal background, etc. etc. The background check will be completed and your passport + new ID will be mailed to you within 10 weeks."

Anyone who's ever applied for a passport should notice only nominal changes from the current process, even if you are a GI overseas.

So no, I didn't mis-undertand, I just pushed FF for about 15 years, once the drivers license has been in place for 12 years or so, and they've had time to work out the kinks in the consolidated all in one system and it has started the push into globalization via the first world countries. Once everyone has embraced the technology, THEN they make it mandatory. Kinda like a drug dealer giving your first 2-3 packs for free, then once your hooked and have no choice putting price tag on it.

My point was in agreement with yours. THey'll make it voluntary until they KNOW it works, and have seen it in motion, and had time to perform the AAR's, and revamp as necessary. Once that is done then they FORCE it, and if you are from a poor country and haven't been integrated yet, just wait your turn and we'll get to you. In the meantime, if you have need of it, we'll get you onlined without to much of hassle. :innocent:

[grundle]

Alpine Sapper that was great. Your extrapolation on the subject was well put. I am in agreement with your viewpoint.

When you mentioned the "drivers license" I guess it was an oversimplification, but now I get what you were saying. We basically said the same thing.

[Rick]

The only thing that MIGHT stand in the way of that is State Sovereignty. The states could say, No, we aren't going to pay for that. If you want it, Mr. Fed, then you get to pay for it OR not within our border. Since driver's licenses are state directives it could slow things down.

Otherwise, I think the scenario is not only feasible but probable.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Alpine Sapper that was great. Your extrapolation on the subject was well put. I am in agreement with your viewpoint.

When you mentioned the "drivers license" I guess it was an oversimplification, but now I get what you were saying. We basically said the same thing.

*takes a bow
Thank you. In case you can't tell, I've been thoroughly enjoying this discussion. :)

I figured some might have missed the previous novella I wrote in agreement with Rick's point that it won't be an implanted chip, but something like your cellphone. I just ID'ed the methodology that they are most likely going to push forward with IMHO. Not saying it won't turn into an implant eventually, but for that to occur they'll have to crush the spirit of society a little further. There are still to many of us that are armed and against the branded cattle lifestyle this could lead to. Now, another 20 years of stripping liberty from you while making you like it? Society may be subdued enough to stand in the stall and take the brand.

[RBB]

Then they tie your NCIS information to it, and ensure all local law enforcement has entered the digital age and is sharing information. That piece of it is right around the corner no matter what.

A couple of thoughts on Law enforcement:

Within my life time: Officers I worked with when I first started would drive around town. When they saw the "blue light" go on over city hall, they would find a phone and call the telephone operator to find out what the call was.

Later, after car radios became more common (took up the entire trunk of the car), officers would run a license plate or drivers license information by radioing dispatch. The dispatcher would phone down to the state capital where someone would manually look through the folders until the information was retrieved and it would be phoned back to the dispatcher who would radio it to the squad. A half hour was a pretty smoking good time.

Today, I have a computer in my squad. I have access to all the state information at my finger tips. I can look up any state DL or vehicle information. To look up criminal history through NCIS - I have to have a case file number (which are audited periodically - thank God). However, we are now on a reporting system that includes five counties. This will show any contacts that anyone in the five counties has had with law enforcement, not just convictions, but anything. I certainly don't see this shrinking. It makes it easier to do my job, but on another level - it concerns me.

[Alpine_Sapper]

A couple of thoughts on Law enforcement:

Within my life time: Officers I worked with when I first started would drive around town. When they saw the "blue light" go on over city hall, they would find a phone and call the telephone operator to find out what the call was.

Later, after car radios became more common (took up the entire trunk of the car), officers would run a license plate or drivers license information by radioing dispatch. The dispatcher would phone down to the state capital where someone would manually look through the folders until the information was retrieved and it would be phoned back to the dispatcher who would radio it to the squad. A half hour was a pretty smoking good time.

Today, I have a computer in my squad. I have access to all the state information at my finger tips. I can look up any state DL or vehicle information. To look up criminal history through NCIS - I have to have a case file number (which are audited periodically - thank God). However, we are now on a reporting system that includes five counties. This will show any contacts that anyone in the five counties has had with law enforcement, not just convictions, but anything. I certainly don't see this shrinking. It makes it easier to do my job, but on another level - it concerns me.

So in your opinion, how long before you have all the counties in your state at your accessbility, or is that a jurisdictional thing? I know certain warrants become "Regional" warrants, so, say, South Texas it won't show up unless you get pulled over by a state trooper, but if set foot in the next county or a few over, once you are in their "Region" the warrant will show.

When I referenced NCIS it was mainly more of invoking an already existing CI database. I honestly think they will just online a couple of server clusters that consolidate all the state information you were talking about, and then expand it from there to include any contact, as you describe. The individual technology that they choose to incorporate into the system isn't as relevant as how easy it would be to piece meal that together until you have working coherent system, and that it could feasibly be done over the next decade imho.

[grundle]

Speaking of law enforcement it would be a "brilliant" victory for investigation if we consider the case where people have already been implanted with this device that has some sort of locator or GPS capability.

Imagine, then a murder occurs. To generate a list of suspects you would estimate the time of death and the make a list of all personal ID numbers who were in that general area when the crime occurred. From that list you could probably find the criminal much quicker than our current response time. Especially since you can just drive right to them, using the same location technology.

It would be heralded as the next great breakthrough in law enforcement, since the discovery of DNA.

It is possible that such a device could become a mandatory sanction for prior offenders, or violent criminals who are up for release. Once the viability is proven the system/government whatever could then say that if everyone wants safety, and who doesn't want that, they should get this. The current outrage over child sex offenders seems to be a strong indicator. People would automatically know if one of these offenders wandered into a school zone, etc. since the system would raise a flag when he did.

Just some ideas. I forgot to consider this angle of the problem.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Speaking of law enforcement it would be a "brilliant" victory for investigation if we consider the case where people have already been implanted with this device that has some sort of locator or GPS capability.

Imagine, then a murder occurs. To generate a list of suspects you would estimate the time of death and the make a list of all personal ID numbers who were in that general area when the crime occurred. From that list you could probably find the criminal much quicker than our current response time. Especially since you can just drive right to them, using the same location technology.

It would be heralded as the next great breakthrough in law enforcement, since the discovery of DNA.

It is possible that such a device could become a mandatory sanction for prior offenders, or violent criminals who are up for release. Once the viability is proven the system/government whatever could then say that if everyone wants safety, and who doesn't want that, they should get this. The current outrage over child sex offenders seems to be a strong indicator. People would automatically know if one of these offenders wandered into a school zone, etc. since the system would raise a flag when he did.

Just some ideas. I forgot to consider this angle of the problem.

So learning how to clone the chips is going to be essential. Kinda like they used to do with cellphones. Modify a ham scanner to pick up the right frequencies, attach an EEPROM to the scanner, and everyone that walks by with a phone on broadcasts their information which you capture, decode, and clone into a new cell. boom, you got a device on their account. Same concept, but it's stealing the ID (in one feel swoop) vs. just the cell service.

[grundle]

Cloning, or you could also resort to "spoofing" which is just emulating a false signal that is taken as a real one. That is probably an easier approach and results in much more anonymity.

Of course...not bearing an implant will be even more anonymous.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Of course...not bearing an implant will be even more anonymous.

But probably not allow you passage through the "normal" avenues, like walking down the street. You might be able to circumvent the system by staying to crawlspace/steam tunnel types of places. *shrug* This is now so far into sci-fi speculation there isn't really coherent probables that could be made at this time, imho.

[Smok]

Sorry that I have been just sitting back and reading . But you guys have taken this and run with to places that I never thought of ...Thanks this is a great read

[Nativedude]

Rick wrote: "Does anyone honestly believe there is a politician that would vote for having anything implanted in people involuntarily?"

YES. There have been many left-wing, liberal Congressmen and Senators that have pushed for that very thing. Starting with chipping babies as they're born.

They (Gov't zealots) claim "chipping" babies and infants will help to reduce the number of kidnapping incidences. In reality it would be a way of tracking and keeping an eye on them with the click of a mouse!


Rick wrote: "You already have a passport, drivers license, social security number, a phone number an address, credit card numbers....get the picture?"

No passport, D.L. yes, S.S. # no, phone # no, address a P.O. Box and credit cards no.



Rick wrote: "Remember when you were a kid and HAD to say the pledge of allegiance. Think about that. Forcing children to pledge their allegiance to the country. Sounds like something we would have expected from 1930s Germany. I'll bet there are few younger people that even know the words today. The point is, if a government truly wants control of the population, they start by indoctrinating the children. In 20 years you have a population that WANTS to follow government dogma because they believe it is correct. You don't start by beating old men into submission. You might get them to walk a straight line but you'll never get them to believe in it. You start with the kids. Just my .02.

EXACTLY!!


Rick wrote: "I also believe there is a lot of censorship in public educations. Groups forcing their own agenda. Probably why so many home school today.

I see home schooling as positive reinforcement that the government is not all that interested in controlling our personal lives. That would be one of the first things outlawed if it wanted to control young minds.

Again. . .EXACTLY!!

[Alpine_Sapper]

While hesitant to dregde up an old post, I didn't figure this needed it's own thread, so,

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/us/19DNA.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw

[crashdive123]

While hesitant to dregde up an old post, I didn't figure this needed it's own thread, so,

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/us/19DNA.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw

Yeah, but it is the New York Times reporting....so you also have to ask if it is true.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Yeah, but it is the New York Times reporting....so you also have to ask if it is true.

They printed it on the intarweb thing, so it must be true, right? :ohmy:

[crashdive123]

They printed it on the intarweb thing, so it must be true, right? :ohmy:

http://smileyshut.com/smileys/new/emot96.gif (http://smileyshut.com)

[yellowcab]

Rebe (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/12714)145.9 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/722)прив (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/20)PERF (http://eyesvisions.com)Jaim (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1073246)ВПФи (http://filmzones.ru/t/676699)Bern (http://gadwall.ru/t/621334)Скор (http://gaffertape.ru/t/839324)Harm (http://gageboard.ru/t/858520)Григ (http://gagrule.ru/t/670402)Смир (http://gallduct.ru/t/857188)Tesc (http://galvanometric.ru/t/448536)Joha (http://gangforeman.ru/t/673518)Frie (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/943704)Swis (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143121)
Khad (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/343385)МеÑ�Ñ‚ (http://gascautery.ru/t/958872)Бара (http://gashbucket.ru/t/456172)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gasreturn.ru/t/976906)Бело (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/565599)гоÑ�Ñ‚ (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160161)Alek (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1046898)Стар (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/815815)XVII (http://geartreating.ru/t/813918)AA10 (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/741222)Shar (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559931)Deko (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/572433)Henr (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/292066)Doug (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/663063)Ñ�лов (http://getthebounce.ru/t/249482)
Мак� (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/819016)и�ку (http://habituate.ru/t/854611)Carr (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/449532)лите (http://hackworker.ru/t/854245)Jule (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/845825)Гари (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/836811)Dans (http://hailsquall.ru/t/623255)Oral (http://hairysphere.ru/t/561028)Dove (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/563643)�ерт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/563198)Rexo (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/563408)Colg (http://haltstate.ru/t/561027)�ожа (http://handcoding.ru/t/834292)Сто� (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1009694)Pale (http://handradar.ru/t/562610)
меди (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/497341)мы�л (http://hangonpart.ru/t/740783)Star (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/562641)Open (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/557361)�ерт (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566843)Yann (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567481)DAIW (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567925)wwwr (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/177671)ручк (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602140)Mari (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/770163)Fran (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/353710)Павл (http://headregulator.ru/t/760511)Коше (http://heartofgold.ru/t/941780)Hidi (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/504268)Генр (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1048038)
Миль (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/821110)Circ (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603313)Sela (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/602340)Witt (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/608108)Pali (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/604242)Eleg (http://jobstress.ru/t/604221)Rare (http://jogformation.ru/t/634010)Лид� (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/795279)Pete (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1141879)доку (http://journallubricator.ru/t/679337)Медк (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/785351)Кири (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/833445)Иллю (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/813914)форм (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/796022)впер (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/795370)
Jean (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/768499)diam (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610746)Чуро (http://kentishglory.ru/t/819529)мате (http://kerbweight.ru/t/809675)PURE (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606869)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609481)педа (http://keyserum.ru/t/833661)Ð�епо (http://kickplate.ru/t/264897)Годе (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/672285)52-7 (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606840)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609966)инÑ�п (http://kinozones.ru/film/4150)Zone (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611700)Chet (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605696)инÑ�Ñ‚ (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/883599)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608469)хар- (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/605575)weni (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/675024)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193132)Капи (http://laborracket.ru/t/670082)Воро (http://labourearnings.ru/t/881591)Ð*аби (http://labourleasing.ru/t/877467)Sure (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/900670)Ждан (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1001729)Jame (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/889524)Irvi (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1049859)Carl (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/832205)Stev (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/753954)Ð*ль- (http://laggingload.ru/t/817651)ПоÑ�Ñ‚ (http://laissezaller.ru/t/833463)
Савч (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/810596)Полл (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/813604)Лекц (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/809013)Голу (http://lamphouse.ru/t/838647)Сидо (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/812624)Geof (http://lancingdie.ru/t/770433)(190 (http://landingdoor.ru/t/760245)Фило (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/875638)удов (http://landreform.ru/t/859728)Земл (http://landuseratio.ru/t/834396)У�о� (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/877569)�лит (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161537)заве (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1163533)MDPo (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/358)Bava (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590831)

[yellowcab]

беже (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1179227)Gene (http://latrinesergeant.ru)Kron (http://layabout.ru/shop/453160)Shot (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/599855)1002 (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106040)spor (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465811)Медв (http://leaveword.ru/shop/466083)Белу (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/269278)5602 (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/575573)�вет (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/268219)Laba (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268745)Kath (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/576174)(070 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/558155)SAAB (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160441)AVTO (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/614214)
вм�т (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598766)пози (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2668)Jenk (http://mp3lists.ru/item/3622)Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1042022)упак (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/143778)Educ (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461702)укра (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055785)Monk (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/501554)Chiv (http://navelseed.ru/shop/102744)Иллю (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455295)Мухи (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178236)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/507404)wwwr (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/639751)LEGO (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/177100)Bosc (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10561)
Vite (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98875)Ñ�ерт (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570719)Roya (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/1149810)Gord (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148876)Sree (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/202939)Gerr (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/149826)Aman (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579953)Wind (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582142)Ð�Ñ�та (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684286)Крот (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/683638)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/579057)ЛитÐ* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/583684)ЛенÑ� (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689209)чита (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1168596)Ефим (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1168624)
XVII (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1173636)изда (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1172537)Щепи (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1541196)публ (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1499134)XVII (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/595933)пан� (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/599057)John (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1072498)побе (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1074243)кажд (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/336637)Dona (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510163)Bari (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/574242)Prod (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/517592)(Пан (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/913716)VIDE (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1080208)авто (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/343004)
Quee (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/514204)Кова (http://rearchain.ru/shop/720332)Clai (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/636598)Toon (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1001852)Pock (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1054544)Сыче (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1063229)Ð*уру (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1680716)Tous (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693679)Easy (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1762267)Insi (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1774389)Fire (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1819110)Степ (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1057046)аÑ�Ñ‚Ñ€ (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1848943)допо (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1875768)Wind (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1481052)
Булы (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493367)Форм (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1480420)Форм (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1494954)Harv (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1556086)Yevg (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1417430)Юлуш (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1488615)Топо (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/338574)King (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/400596)Соде (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/402181)Vasi (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1687666)MDPo (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/358)MDPo (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/358)MDPo (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/358)Skye (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/483645)возр (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/491149)
Шеве (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/499090)авто (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/502039)Buri (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/488467)Emil (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499872)Машк (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1822614)Robe (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1881197)Ñ�луш (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1902076)Bria (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/783658)Тюме (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/402169)Мюлл (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/981388)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Тище (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/981837)Ð*еда (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483977)

[yellowcab]

audiobookkeeper (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

[yellowcab]

laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

чита (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1781)183 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/825)�о�т (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/208)mirr (http://eyesvisions.com/physics/19)Colu (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1778421)Коро (http://filmzones.ru/t/1857162)Tomb (http://gadwall.ru/t/1824482)Орло (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1642857)друг (http://gageboard.ru/t/1726516)Suga (http://gagrule.ru/t/1654069)Raou (http://gallduct.ru/t/1658525)Shap (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1998938)Peni (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1920030)Deci (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1973873)Hjer (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1933024)
ориг (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1756586)Inte (http://gascautery.ru/t/1778249)Redi (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1830361)Cons (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1828190)Doll (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1994978)Bigm (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1984672)комф (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1878650)Tocc (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1785009)East (http://geartreating.ru/t/1713002)Glob (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1688287)Брум (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1715453)Noct (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1704647)�рци (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1631304)Will (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1640973)Fran (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1641075)
Step (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1706479)Иващ (http://habituate.ru/t/1718287)Morn (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1784548)Бело (http://hackworker.ru/t/1700276)Баба (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1726103)�лек (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1742286)Крут (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1727812)Easy (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1712926)дей� (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1829704)Соде (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1583696)факу (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1726791)Дани (http://haltstate.ru/t/1718393)Larg (http://handcoding.ru/t/1681912)What (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1713278)Evan (http://handradar.ru/t/1760887)
легк (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1791865)Mire (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1826153)Zone (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1859506)Мале (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1742237)авгу (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1746659)Шухо (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1612148)Гала (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1640282)Пер� (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1639525)Circ (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1783618)Geor (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1705480)Patr (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1720173)Берк (http://headregulator.ru/t/1747385)Шейн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1768953)Madn (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1828143)Race (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1824845)
�дри (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1690003)Wall (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/1990512)Pear (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1768715)Сарт (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1718511)Driv (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1984620)го�т (http://jobstress.ru/t/1786851)Andr (http://jogformation.ru/t/1903794)Livi (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1883977)Емце (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1792706)Боко (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1740771)ВВСе (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1729769)выче (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1808371)дей� (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1641669)Соде (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1639477)С�ко (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1617492)
Begi (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1990504)Уль� (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1652345)Сухо (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1718446)Fall (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1783637)Деме (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1718264)dire (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1629975)цель (http://keyserum.ru/t/1745130)Л�ле (http://kickplate.ru/t/1787020)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1827785)Turb (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1920235)Boys (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1964696)хоз� (http://kinozones.ru/film/6677)�рто (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1727837)Jewe (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1920005)Jimm (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1815312)
Hurt (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1850603)Grio (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1958841)Sali (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1932995)Song (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1915997)Blau (http://laborracket.ru/t/1942894)PSAL (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1996827)Pain (http://labourleasing.ru/t/2002800)Side (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1713249)Скоб (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1717763)Соло (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1709354)Vita (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1780175)Wall (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1815249)Кули (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1640281)подр (http://laggingload.ru/t/1825234)Good (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1848416)
Only (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1902549)Intr (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/2000759)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827803)Мано (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1739489)опуб (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1751366)Шиха (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1660938)Швар (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1612120)Sati (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1992951)Leve (http://landreform.ru/t/1777945)Форм (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1828642)Dupp (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1987852)врем (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1162976)190а (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536826)Sier (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/733)иеро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591352)

[yellowcab]

Orga (http://laterevent.ru/shop/154398)Lieb (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452954)Шеле (http://layabout.ru/shop/600206)Кита (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1037700)Соло (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/270349)Мила (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/467283)Book (http://leaveword.ru/shop/909102)Кита (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/444273)Croc (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/610265)Chic (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/574967)Frid (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269993)худо (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/786358)Ombr (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788259)ARAG (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612861)хоро (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175127)
п�тн (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1175052)Revi (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1837)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/6149)Clea (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151346)�рти (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/575152)ин�т (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462248)камн (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056256)акад (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576879)Tolo (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103492)Bonu (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455993)wwwn (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185294)Sona (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/640065)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/649119)Лепа (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/470976)Unit (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/93687)
Clor (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457732)Winx (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457755)грам (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/573282)ЛитÐ* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149872)Горш (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/204001)Jeth (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/203783)Jewe (http://onesticket.ru/shop/581959)прон (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584152)диÑ�Ñ� (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/687861)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/685351)ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/690083)конÑ� (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585188)Jewe (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/690758)рома (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1172470)Mast (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1172469)
Кате (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1176908)Побе (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1174314)Бар- (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543755)XIII (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543337)VIII (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597189)Four (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/846724)СФед (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1075628)Temb (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1080849)Морд (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/362236)Love (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511449)Соло (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/636760)Acou (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/904716)по�т (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1075275)Lamo (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1384003)Stil (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1296703)
Metr (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515865)Jerz (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878595)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878516)КаÑ�ÑŒ (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1033749)nati (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057226)Форм (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064522)Труш (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687255)Кома (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694684)Жуко (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770381)ПолÑ� (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775918)кухн (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821380)Скре (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1062154)лиÑ�е (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854715)Сапо (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880278)Сухо (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915344)
Л�хо (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495131)Вишн (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941023)Утки (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1551748)�амо (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1617883)Toda (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1454875)Горо (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1493912)Собч (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/366225)авто (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403455)Behr (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/406485)Капи (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1692819)Sier (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/733)Sier (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/733)Sier (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/733)Мир� (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485360)Reco (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496386)
возр (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500618)Song (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/505560)Lucy (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489920)Сапл (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/501880)Поно (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1849531)Мить (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1900681)Дани (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1918773)Узор (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/793137)го�у (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/890959)Само (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983135)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)авто (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983500)апо� (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485714)