View Full Version : hunting in a bug out scenario
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 01:19 PM
how many of you are proficient hunters?
how many are proficient at using a bow?
i find humourous how many think they will just dissapear into the bush and live off the land subsisting on wild edibles and wild animals, even if you have a permanent camp, can you hunt, fish, gather foods in total tactical efferts, meaning no motor on your boat no firearms to give away your presence no chain saws. how good are you at trapping and archery, preserving your foods? then can you keep your family safe? what about when you are out hunting? what about your children and spouce being scared and bored, putting them into an unfamiliar situation only adds to the panic, then the worry of family and friends, then what happens when a stranger happens by, do you invite them in or do you shoot them, lots of bridges to cross
i used to think about bugging out all the time until i read the alpha rubicon thread on bugging out, which i posted as an absolute must read, my actions and thinking have changed in the last two years to a community bonding together, family is more safe and comfortable with familiar people and situations, you may still fantasize about being jonh j rambo but seriously think of your family and how much easier it is to surive with help. i know it sucks to ask for help as we are all total bad azzes here capable of killing and survivng and beating everyone up, but me, i' gonna rely upon a community to help protect me and feed me, and them upon me. and i will live again to thrive so what of it have you reallly truly put thought into staying alive
skunkkiller
03-20-2009, 01:44 PM
the wife and I both know how to shoot gun and bow .we both would be trapping together. so she would not be left behind when I was out hunting . While hunting we would be setting traps and set lines for fish.we also carry frog gigs in our packs .
You might be in good shape in AK or Kanuke Land but there is no way my tush is gonna be in the woods in the Midwest if something bad goes down. You'd be more likely to get shot there than walking in front of the targets at your local range.
I guess it boils down to why you bugged out. I've been through a few natural disasters and never had the need to hunt.
Sourdough
03-20-2009, 02:06 PM
Vehicle.....? Nell is the only proficient hunter with a vehicle......:tank::no::tank::no::no::no:
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 02:09 PM
thats why i added it, pops, equal rights and opportunities and such
laughingbeetle
03-20-2009, 03:39 PM
I have never shot a firearm. It has been years since I shot a bow. Never tried trapping although I can set up a snare. I do go fishing on a regular basis. My "bugging" plans involve gathering together members of my family (including the good friends that are also family) Each member will perform the tasks to which they are best suited for. My brother, father, brother in law, and best friend all hunt. I am more suited for fishing, gardening, food preperation and storage duties. My cousins and I garden and can together. A large, well maintained garden has been supplying 20 or more people with good stuff for more than 30 years. My family has been doing this for as long as I can remember. If and when the time ever comes, I am confident that me and mine will do just fine.
I think I'll hunt with a car. I've already figured out the bait.
http://imanimoseley.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/girl_changing_tire1.jpg
Alpine_Sapper
03-20-2009, 03:55 PM
I think I'll hunt with a car. I've already figured out the bait.
http://imanimoseley.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/girl_changing_tire1.jpg
lol. That's not bait, that's prey! Looks tasty... :innocent:
Uhhhh, you figure somebody's gonna' stop just to steal that jack?:innocent:
When those star struck roving hordes stop to help. Presto, I'll have all the gear and food I need. And her name isn't Jack.
hoosierarcher
03-20-2009, 05:19 PM
In a bug out scenario I would hunt in any and everyway that was possible. I'd lean more heavily on my bows for two main reasons, noiseless and arrows are reusable usually. Traps would actually be my primary method. That is poaching now; but under those circumstances I am the law.
Stairman
03-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Carbons are usually reusable if you can find em.Havent had much luck with aluminum or wood for 2nd shots much.Making primitive arrows to shoot with a modern bow is dangerous.On one hand shooting a gun will give you away,and on the other hand that might be a good think since theyll know your there and armed.
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 05:55 PM
well if your thinking goes that way, then your positon is given away and someone who maybe armed will know approximatley where to get a good meal, listen i try not to take the evryone is out to get me view i personally think it is a subliminal or such idea to keep folks from banding together, some sort of an agenda, but i for one am for finding folks and banding together.
crashdive123
03-20-2009, 05:58 PM
In the original post - why are we bugging out?
tennecedar
03-20-2009, 06:11 PM
If the bug out is caused by chemical, nuclear, or biological then the animals may be unfit to harvest. if hunting is a possibility, i've produced more with traps in a couple days than with a bow.
crashdive123
03-20-2009, 06:17 PM
I gotta say, and the reason I asked the question I did - I don't buy into the total collapse of civilization scenarios, forcing us to live in the wilderness. So, if I'm forced to bug out - I'm probably going to the restaurant in the hotel that I'm staying at. Now, if the scenario is - you're stranded in the wilderness because of x (plane crash, ship wreck, etc.) I will use whatever means I have available to gather food, including the reliance on others that are stranded with me.
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 06:19 PM
In the original post - why are we bugging out?
well lets just say that you have bugged out and are worried about looting and pilaging and ill intentioned folks wanting your food (as that seems to be everyones main concern that evryone is out to get them) so i am just asking how are you going to kill your wild meat since most of us have alreay admited that we cannot survive on wild edibles alone, how would you hunt, which method
crashdive123
03-20-2009, 06:22 PM
well lets just say that you have bugged out and are worried about looting and pilaging and ill intentioned folks wanting your food (as that seems to be everyones main concern that evryone is out to get them) so i am just asking how are you going to kill your wild meat since most of us have alreay admited that we cannot survive on wild edibles alone, how would you hunt, which method
Cool - guess I answered that in #16.
SARKY
03-20-2009, 06:23 PM
First, buggin' in or buggin' out will depend on different factors including the area in which you now reside. How I aquire my next meal will depend on where I wind up, might not make all the way to my bug out location. contingencies, contingencies, contingencies! No matter traps, snares and trotlines will be my first line of food(meat) gathering. Next will be slingshot and bow, lastly firearms. Something to remember about sound ie. gunshots, low frequency sound is omni directional, this mens it is tough to figure out the direction iit is comming from. High frenquency soud is very directional. So based on that using a big bore low velocity caliber might be more prudent than a small caliber high velocity one. Something to think about.
Stairman
03-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Traps,snares,bushooks,trotlines all work when Im out trying to shoot something.My weapon of choice would be a 22.
SARKY
03-20-2009, 06:24 PM
Is anyone familar with the Appache horse trap?
crashdive123
03-20-2009, 06:26 PM
Is anyone familar with the Appache horse trap?
Nope, but I'm curious now.
Stairman
03-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Sarky we were typing the same time.If Im worried about other humans Ill be in my ghilli suit, so they wont see me till its too late.
Where I'd go, I wouldn't have to worry about other people. My rifles and chain saw are as good as long as I have ammunition and gas. I already don't use a motor on my boat and you should have included fishing separately in the poll
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 06:51 PM
naw not realy brother, fishing can be done in stealth mode thru a hole or of a bank or other means. my curiosity went to all the folks who live in the big cities that usually go to the same areas for hunting and camping, when they bug out it will be to a familiar area not going that far north as some folks can go to such as your self
Yeah, I kinda knew that, but I'm not telling anyone here where exactly I'd be going just to be on the safe side,:sneaky2:
tennecedar
03-20-2009, 07:05 PM
i've cached traps, snares, tools, and other "necessities" along three separate routes to my bug out location. All are in water proof plastic containers buried in places least likely to be dug up by accident. In the cache at my bug out spot i have fishing gear and nets.
wareagle69
03-20-2009, 07:08 PM
so your vote s for the more silent method then?
tennecedar
03-20-2009, 07:18 PM
From personal experience my vote is for the most effective method of producing the most food. Twenty traps(well set) with no humans around to spook the critters do better for me than hoping to see a deer or hog to take with a bow. It's hard enough for me to kill a few deer each year and i'm not depending solely on them for food. When the shoe is on the other foot I want every advantage.
Oh, urban survival, huh? I wouldn't head for the woods. I'd head for the local park. You can snare nice fat squirrels there.:sneaky2:
:ohmy: :thumbdown: :eyore: :nono: :bawling: :angry: :angermanagement: :whip::eyepoke: :hammer: :noway: :ban: :chair:
tsitenha
03-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Again the question is one dimensional, why limit yourself to just once style/method of hunting or fishing for that matter. Why not carry a bow and a few arrows (if you are capable of using them successfully) along with a rifle/ammo, and some snares/traps, fishing equipement.
Bugging out by yourself would require different talents than a group, being amongst a group, some will be better at certain methods than others, a .22lr will put more edible meat than large caliber but they (large calibers) have also their own virtues.
As mentioned already, multiple, varied sized traps will work extremely well 24/7 and would account for a large portion of meat.
Bugging out in this fashion would require a lot more planing and coordination amongst more people.
By yourself or immediate family you could rely on a bit more load bearing capacity but at what cost to mobility? endurance of the least of the extra members?
But this is extreme survival and would be under bushcrafting.
I would carry extra rations instead in case of need, to get me and mine to specific destination otherwise blind escaping would be just a luck of the draw to what I/we find.
Trail scrounging is always a good idea helps maintain edible ID and you get to acquire seasonal produce and lore.
klkak
03-20-2009, 09:55 PM
I bugged out years ago when I moved to Alaska. America is so crowded if only a fraction of the folks living in cities bug out there wont be any wild bush in the lower 48.
endurance
03-20-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm planning for my long term survival right now. I just picked up the application for doe, cow and pronghorn tag lottery for next season and started filling it out. I'm really hoping for a pronghorn this year. I've had fair luck with deer and elk in the past and never tried hunting antelope before, but the guy I'm going with knows some good, consistent spots.
As for the bug-out scenario, I'd opt for small game as your primary target. If things get really bad, I can't imagine there will be much large game left in this state after the first winter. Rabbits reproduce quickly, so the odds of killing them off significantly is low.
nell67
03-20-2009, 10:06 PM
Vehicle.....? Nell is the only proficient hunter with a vehicle......:tank::no::tank::no::no::no:
LMAO!! I KNEW that was coming when I saw the title of this thread! Thanks hopeak!
tsitenha
03-20-2009, 10:14 PM
My above response while trying to answer the question; brings something else to mind, why would I want to start hunting along the way? exposing myself to being found out (noise, if that is a concern), slowing my progress (is time a consideration?), time taken gutting, field dressing, rendering the meat (smoking, drying, packaging, leaving a trail, taking my attention away from the bug out purpose, getting off track, etc...
Bugging out in itself would be towards a certain destination that would be hopefully secure, otherwise staying put would be in my interest.
Blindly escaping to the unknown is more in Bear's mentality.
In the BOB there should be sufficient trail rations that would be high caloric enough to get me there, if there is a there, as I said before gathering along the trail is an option but not at the expense of purpose.
I can only carry what I can effeciently/realisticly transport, a varied load that will be useful but can be carried, no pick up truck load for me.
In the BOB there should be sufficient trail rations that would be high caloric enough to get me there, if there is a there, as I said before gathering along the trail is an option but not at the expense of purpose.
I sure do agree with that. One of the perils of bugging out is not being able to bug out to where ever you planned to go. Whatever the threat is might just cut you off or force you to move in the opposite direction. You should have a Plan "B" ready just in case Plan "A" can not be executed.
tsitenha
03-20-2009, 10:25 PM
Agreed on plan B as well as a few other letters, deviation is not bad but pre-planning for it is mandatory :thumbup1:
Stairman
03-20-2009, 10:40 PM
My plan A is staying put.Im on a well,the place is paid for,fenced,garden,chickens [rabbits soon] and plenty of creeks and woods and supplies for 3 months.Plan B is leaving on foot with bugout on back and rifle in hand.I dont see plan B happening but who knows.
endurance
03-20-2009, 10:45 PM
I sure do agree with that. One of the perils of bugging out is not being able to bug out to where ever you planned to go. Whatever the threat is might just cut you off or force you to move in the opposite direction. You should have a Plan "B" ready just in case Plan "A" can not be executed.
I've certainly given that some thought. While it seems natural for me to head west, into the mountains, that poses more problems than solutions. First, I think everyone else in Denver, a city of roughly 2.2 million, would have the same idea. Second, winters are much harsher. Third, growing seasons are much shorter.
South is Colorado Springs, a city of 700k, the USAF Academy, Fort Carson, Norad... If I'm bugging out, odds are it's because of NBC concerns, so heading toward major military installations seems like a rather bad idea.
North is Fort Collins. A smaller city of about 100k, further north is Wyoming. I would have never thought about it until I started thinking about evacuation patterns of others, but it probably makes more sense than south and west.
East is the great plains. If I'm running from NBC threats, then I'm going down wind. Otherwise, it's some of the most productive farming and ranching land in the west.
So sometimes it pays to go against your instincts and really analyze where a cache might do you the most good. I only plan on caching a few buckets of food along the way, but having it in the right direction sure would help.
wareagle69
03-21-2009, 08:21 AM
From personal experience my vote is for the most effective method of producing the most food. Twenty traps(well set) with no humans around to spook the critters do better for me than hoping to see a deer or hog to take with a bow. It's hard enough for me to kill a few deer each year and i'm not depending solely on them for food. When the shoe is on the other foot I want every advantage.
you bring up great points
one with every ----------out there plugging away from dusk till dawn,will scare up and deplete the amount of wild animals out there
second as you say not every hunter is succsessful every time they go out
it seems as i read what folks plan on doing is "well i'll just go out and hunt and fish" it hain't that easy folks, how many times have you gone out and the fish just are not biting or the weather is wrong and the deer or elk or moose just are bedded down not moving, and even then if you do get a deer or even bigger if you are bugged out how are you going to preserve it, once again if you are capabale of it you know you must stay put a bit
as awlays i have a layered plan i plan on bugging in, but will be searching out a new safe fall back location, now i do have the advantage as some of my canadian brothers here do also is that we can head north to some areas in manitoba or ontario or quebec and be far far away from 99 percent of the most hardy travellers, the ones you will come across will be likeminded and most likely freindly and they will be kindred fellows
That was sort of my question last week on gill nets vs. cast nets. Snares are a good use of my energy. I can set many and check a couple of times a day leaving me to do other things. Quiet, unobstrusive and productive. My thoughts on the gill net was very similar. Set and check a couple of times a day while leaving me free time to concentrate on other tasks. I would think a couple of gill nets and several snares would be a productive way to put protein on the table whether you bug in or bug out.
wareagle69
03-21-2009, 08:34 AM
another funny thing i just thought of, how many of you have ever watched the movie sniper, the first one, scene is billy zane and tom berenger sitting around talking about life after the corp, tom is saying about opening up a guiding buissness in montana beautiful trout fly fishing, billy asks him how long since you been there ,tom says a couple of years, billy reponds bull---- they made that area a mall 10 years ago.
my point is when i was a kid i used to come up here in ontario to a town not far from where i live, actually do all my errands in that town now, but back then coming up from the states and southern ontario i thought this place to be remote and clean and spent most of my days until 2001 thinking that if the shtf i would move here and survive, ha what a delusion. now that i live here i realize it is a great place to live and play but does not make a great bug out spot. folks think long and hard about your plans, where you hunt, fish ,camp may seem like a great place but up the road may be larger towns and areas capable of becoming high density, research and explore and update you knowledge
Sourdough
03-21-2009, 09:06 AM
Pandemic is the best reason for a fall'back position. It is not if.........but WHEN.
And 20% of 6.7 Billion humans is 1.4 Billion dead.
wareagle69
03-21-2009, 10:10 AM
we used to say that in bullriding its not if you get hurt its just when and how bad
gryffynklm
03-21-2009, 10:29 AM
For me it would be bow hunting, traps, and snares. At least bow hunting is on my list of things to learn. I'm OK with long bow at a target. I am looking at compound bows haven't bought on yet.
Pandemic is the best reason for a fall'back position. It is not if.........but WHEN.
And 20% of 6.7 Billion humans is 1.4 Billion dead.
Note to self
Get an extra shovel, or solar backhoe :blink:
SARKY
03-21-2009, 01:15 PM
Nope, but I'm curious now.
crash;
an Appache horse trap is an ankle/hock trap. It also works well on deer. You take 2 flexable branches about an inch in diameter and 18 to 24 inches long.
Lay them next to each other and tie both ends together. You then need a thin flat piece of wood about one and a half to two times the width of your fist. It can't be so thin as to collapse under the tension. Spread the center of the 2 pieces you tied together and put the flat piece in to hold it apart, this is your trigger. Make several of these. Dig shallow holes on the deer track or trail place these over the hole and camoflage. The idea is that the deer steps into the hole/trap pushing or breaking out the trigger and this then clamps around it hock/ankle. Because of its size it will continue tripping up the deer and the more snares it steps in ithe harder it is for it to get up. You wind up with meat alive but not on the hoof making for an easier dispatch of your food source.
Is this it?
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/figures/fig8-11.gif
SARKY
03-21-2009, 02:11 PM
Nope! I'll work up a drawing to illustrate.
Nope! I'll work up a drawing to illustrate.
How about this?
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/traps/apachefoothold.html
tennecedar
03-21-2009, 09:59 PM
I've been bow hunting since 16. i've even shot in tournaments(not successfully). I know i can hit what is in range. 40-50 yards on a good day(not raining, no real wind, etc.) I also know that, for me, getting large game to walk into that range is trial and error at best. My trapline will consistantly produce a 15% success rate. 20 traps = 3 critters. problem is i just can't guarentee what will be in the trap. I've seen coyotes in snares set for bobcats on top of a log. Racoons in foot holds set for musk rat. The point is, if i'm hungry i'll have to make do with what's harvested.
There are no poisonous mammals or birds in North America so chow down.
tennecedar
03-21-2009, 11:01 PM
That reminds me that I really must store more spices with my grains and canned foods. Palatable foods boost morale. I think i'll put some salt and pepper with each cache as well. Vacuum packed in 30 day amounts. Shouldn't cost more than $10.
Canadian-guerilla
03-22-2009, 07:09 AM
i went with trapping
i think some of us here are assuming we're at home when the time comes to bug out
but what if we're on the road or at work and it's bug out time, and all you have is your BOB
and heading back home to pick up a firearm or bow is not an option
i don't think many people ( Canadians ) drive around with firearms or archery equipment
NOTE: written from a " single " point of view, with no wife and/or children in a bug out situation
wareagle69
03-22-2009, 07:52 AM
tennecedar
so far what i have from you on this thread has been right on and honest, very impressed my freind.
people come a cross here, and maybe it is my interpretation of their writings that they beleive it will be simple to procur meat when out in the bush. thanks for your honesty
rick you ain't eat (pronounced eh t) my wife cooking,ha no posionous birds or mammals your funny, she made rabbit the other day and i gave some to little brown dawg, then lbd starts licking her butt and the wife asks why, so i told her she is just trying to get the taste out of her mouth...and then the fight started
my neighbor, who can killl anything wants to put on a trapping course at his farm, need 6 to 8 folks for the trapper to put on the course, i am not a huge fan of trapping, but i am a big fan of eating, and i can see allot of merit in trapping and learning fur care, plus it kind of falls under my mantra of prepare all ways
WE - I've given this quite a bit of thought. If you have to bug out and you have to provide your own food then a lot of variables have to be dealt with to answer the question. For example - What you have with you, where you are, season, who is with you, total food needs, type of geography, etc.
If you can bug in then your variables are reduced significantly and your chances of success increase dramatically, I think. In addition, there is nothing that says you have to "hunt" alone. It could well be part of a group or neighborhood initiative and handled on a larger scale. For example, three or four guys/gals using nets will land a lot more fish than one guy with a bow and arrow. Three or four guys/gals netting birds, collecting crawfish, tending traps/snares, rabbit hunting, etc. are more apt to be productive than a single person.
You've posted in other threads about banding together with your neighbors and I whole heartedly agree with that concept. A commune, kibbutz, collective farming or whatever term you choose to apply would have distinct advantages both physical and psychological. It would allow for some specialization within the group and improve your overall chances of surviving IF properly administered/governed.
It also seems to me that you're are a lot less apt to get shot out in the woods if you are with a group than if you are alone. Whether it is intentional or by accident.
I've never tried this in practice, obviously, and my thoughts could well be flawed but it seems like the way to go to me.
tennecedar
03-22-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree that with a group the work load is shared and safety increases. IF I have to leave my home i'll have my parents, my sister and her family as well as my wife and boys to think of. I hope to never need to bug out,ever. For now tho i'm the only one preparing for such an event. i also try to set up supplies for food procurement so that i may show them a way to contribute without them needing years of experience.
skunkkiller
03-22-2009, 04:59 PM
:bat:cemetarys are a good place to bug out to in the city people dont go there at night and alway critters around to hunt and trap.:innocent:
SARKY
03-22-2009, 05:31 PM
Look into storing the seeds of heritage vegetables (not hybrids) and native edibles.Amaranth is a native grain with an extremely high yield and is very hardy. We are growing miner lettuce as a ground cover.
SARKY
03-22-2009, 05:44 PM
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1125&stc=1&d=1237758138
Oh, I get it. So the animal winds up with a pair of sticks around its leg. And I can see where setting more than one would be an advantage. Do you attach it to a stake or tree?
Nativedude
03-22-2009, 08:54 PM
It is like a primitive "conibear" trap.
While you could attach a length of cordage to this type of trap, it is just as well to leave them free. When an animal get something around their legs they feel incapacitated and tend to stop and/or lay down. It seriously hampers their movements.
Which makes it easy to catch up to and (for true survival only) kill them.
I have seen these types of traps/snares made with short nails driven through the branches so that when the branches snap together the ends of the nails penetrate into the leg. The added pain will keep them from moving and lay down quicker.
Years ago, I used a piece of braided cattail cordage I made as a hobble for my horse. While he could have easily snapped it, he never did. Once I got it on him you would've thought I had put him in iron shackles.
Swamprat1958
09-11-2009, 08:51 AM
First, buggin' in or buggin' out will depend on different factors including the area in which you now reside. How I aquire my next meal will depend on where I wind up, might not make all the way to my bug out location. contingencies, contingencies, contingencies! No matter traps, snares and trotlines will be my first line of food(meat) gathering. Next will be slingshot and bow, lastly firearms. Something to remember about sound ie. gunshots, low frequency sound is omni directional, this means it is tough to figure out the direction it is coming from. High frequency sound is very directional. So based on that using a big bore low velocity caliber might be more prudent than a small caliber high velocity one. Something to think about.
I agree with Sarky. A slingshot would be the first choice then a .22lr if it was in an area where the sound wouldn't be a problem.
Here is the Slingshot I made and carry constantly in the woods.
http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/Swamprat1958/?action=view¤t=IMG_0048-1.jpg
Another constant carry is my .22lr revolver, it is a Smith & Wesson Model 17 - 6 and is so acccurate it will amaze you.
http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/Swamprat1958/?action=view¤t=SW17-62.jpg
Sorry the images didn't load for some reason.
thunderson5
09-11-2009, 11:01 AM
im a pretty fair shot with a bow and rifle,not a real good fisherman but with a little practice who knows.one thing ive found out though is that shooting at a target is alot different than actually hunting,theres a little more pressure esp.if your depending on it for food although being a good shot sure cant hurt and alot of streams have crawfish in them that are not real hard to get.depending on reason for bugging out will dictate your priorities like security and evasion
LudwigVan
09-13-2009, 11:54 PM
You can usually spot an armchair survivalist a mile away as soon as they start talking about how thier main priority in a survival situation will be to kill a deer. First of all, one person, even 3 or 4 people cannot eat a whole deer without either preserving a bunch or wasting. Secondly, good luck on your hunt. These guys talk about deer hunting as if it were a trip to the grocery store, just walk outside and shoot one!
I'm not saying that I woudn't crave some vennison every now and then, but in that situation I would wait until I am set up with ways to preserve and store most of the meat.
Until then, my main sources of food would be animals such as Coon, beaver and possum, some wild edibles that I know of, fish and birds, and rabbit and squirrel. All of these animals are much easier to find and trap/shoot/fish than large game.
Oh and I'm more of a get your trusted friends together and start a reliable bug out retreat kind of guy. Heading off into the woods all alone as a SHTF strategy may have worked way back in Davey Crockett's day when there was signifigantly more wilderness and not as much S to potentially HTF (did they even have fans back then?) But today there are 300 million people in America alone, most of them unprepared, the wilderness is unfortunately not what it was in 1854 and there is just soo much more than can go wrong these days, and as much as I hate to admit it for some of those things, playing Jerimiah Johnson really won't help matters.
Winnie
09-14-2009, 03:10 AM
If I had to bug-out, there's a plan in place. My dad taught me to make fish traps, snare, and generally get a meal on the wrongish side of the law. Firearms aren't an option for me so there's no point in even going there and I'm certainly not going to take myself off into town to try and scavenge one. I go with trapping, or bow hunting, using a noisy firearm just advertises your location.
I'm still working on indentifying wild edibles.
your_comforting_company
09-14-2009, 07:03 AM
whoops. too late to vote, but i'll put my 2 in.
give me a 30/30-150 with iron sights and anything that walks out is a goner.
take my rifle away and i'm gonna have to go with trapping and fishing. Never had the attention span to become proficient with a bow. I played with slingshots as a kid, but somehow I left all that behind and became a "modern hunter". now, in a shtf situation, i'll presume I didnt grab enough ammo to last any length of time. That leaves me in a bad situation.
I'd have to agree with wychwood in that the most primitive methods will be the ones that get you out alive when you run out of all your modern resources. The quiet ones that dont disclose your location.
NativeDude, do you have any pix of that conibear trap? I love learning new trapping methods. I'm going to watch some of your videos when i get off work this evening.
Nativedude isn't with us anymore.
Mischief
09-14-2009, 07:37 AM
Traps,snares,bushooks,trotlines all work when Im out trying to shoot something.My weapon of choice would be a 22.:clap:
22 subsonic and 22 short ammo for the above.
Plus a pellet rifle
Mischief
Free Range
11-04-2009, 12:47 AM
If your bugging out because of a collapse of the supply of basic needs, and you think banding together is the way to go then you better have a big band of brothers. When this happens the gangs from the cities will not be four or five guys that just want to find something to eat. It will be small armies of the worst of the worst. They will have survived the wars that will take place in every city, and as soon as all the food is used up they will be looking for more. A couple things will be in our favor, first it will take some time, a month or so for that to happen, giving you plenty of time to fortify your position, or get lost. The other is they will be completely out of their element when they have to leave the pavement, and nothing scares the hell out of a city boy more then being in the woods.
A small cal rifle like a .22 with a silencer, a bow, a real bow not a compound and enough arrows to get you by until you can make more, and the ability to set deadfalls, snares, and other forms of traps.
You guys/girls that live in the more populated areas will have different problems, like someone said its hard to get lost in most states east of the rockies, so banding together might be your only choice.
Im headed for the mountains, as far south as I can and still be in very remote country. The Grand Canyon area would be a good choice, there are some really wild places in Utah, Southern Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico.
Im headed for the mountains, as far south as I can and still be in very remote country.
Hey, Free Range! How about heading to our Introductions Section first?
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813
Hillmann
11-04-2009, 12:04 PM
I watched a show about poaching on the history channel and in it they said when everyone started poaching they very quickly decimated the population of everything from large game down to rats and pigeons. Just think with a population 4 or five times longer it would only take a week or so to do the same thing to happen today.
Some people mentioned using nets for fishing. Do you already have the nets on hand? If not forget about it. An 8x8 net with a 2inch stretch measure takes about 60 hours to tie by hand and a third of a mile of string ( imagen trying to make enough string to make a small net). For a gill net you would want 2.5-3 inch streach measure which would make it faster to make and use less string but it would still be quite a job to make in the wilderness.
One source of food that is ignored(havent seen it mentioned yet) is elevators and feed mills. You could fill up the bed of a pickup for less than a hundred dollers and have food for a large family for more than a year. The grain may be treated with fungissides and pestacides but it would be better than starvation. And for those of you who will say starvation would be better than to eat grain that has been treated, treated corn gets into the human food supply all the time on accident, it took ofer 10 years to get one years harvest of a GM corn that caused bad reactions to be removed from the human food supply.
rwc1969
11-04-2009, 02:32 PM
Aside from all the post apocolyptic societal woes, abilty to preserve food, and weapon of choice has anyone considered sustainability?
How long could you live in an area before you eliminated most of the game and wild plants in the woods and waters?
If it weren't for hunting and fishing laws I could go out every day and night and kill seemingly endless deer, squirrel, turkeys, rabbits, fish, etc. all with a .22 or primitive bow or perhaps even a well fashioned club or spear. You can walk right up and club a turkey off it's roost at night as well as many other birds. You can get extremely close to deer at night and even fashion traps to catch them while you're away. I could spear pike all night long from shore along with various other fish. They just sit there! Deer and fish would be my #1 food source and in a survival stuation I could get plenty as long as they were around.
But, what happens when I kill off everything in the area? Do I continually move from area to area in 10 day intervals so I don't wipe out the population? or what?
In the winter or early spring I can fish out a crappie lake in a month. Fish are still there, but scattered and much harder to catch. I wouldn't be able to survive on them for more than a month and it would take several years for them to revive. I can clean a woods outta squirrels and rabbits too over the course of a winter. We've done it! and end up having to leave that woods alone for a couple years to revive. That was casual/ not everyday hunting and fishing either. If we were relying on them as a main food source they'd disappear much quicker.
In a true survival situation what do you do? Become nomadic? Hopefully you don't run into another group that is fighting for the same food supply as you are.
Hillmann
11-04-2009, 02:44 PM
Aside from all the post apocolyptic societal woes, abilty to preserve food, and weapon of choice has anyone considered sustainability?
How long could you live in an area before you eliminated most of the game and wild plants in the woods and waters?
If it weren't for hunting and fishing laws I could go out every day and night and kill seemingly endless deer, squirrel, turkeys, rabbits, fish, etc. all with a .22 or primitive bow or perhaps even a well fashioned club or spear. You can walk right up and club a turkey off it's roost at night as well as many other birds. You can get extremely close to deer at night and even fashion traps to catch them while you're away. I could spear pike all night long from shore along with various other fish. They just sit there! Deer and fish would be my #1 food source and in a survival stuation I could get plenty as long as they were around.
But, what happens when I kill off everything in the area? Do I continually move from area to area in 10 day intervals so I don't wipe out the population? or what?
In the winter or early spring I can fish out a crappie lake in a month. Fish are still there, but scattered and much harder to catch. I wouldn't be able to survive on them for more than a month and it would take several years for them to revive. I can clean a woods outta squirrels and rabbits too over the course of a winter. We've done it! and end up having to leave that woods alone for a couple years to revive. That was casual/ not everyday hunting and fishing either. If we were relying on them as a main food source they'd disappear much quicker.
In a true survival situation what do you do? Become nomadic? Hopefully you don't run into another group that is fighting for the same food supply as you are.
If it is a true TEOTWAWKI situation everyone in the area will be doing the same thing as you and within a couple weeks game would become very scarce within miles around every town and citys would have mass exoduses which would kill all game within hunderds of miles of the city. There would basicley be no place easte of the dokotas whare there would be game left to hunt or fish.
I think the best bet fpr ;pmg ter, survival would be gardening or sharecropping (assuming farmers can't get fuel there land will be sitting unused or worked by hand)
Sourdough
11-04-2009, 03:33 PM
I say it over and over and over.........go where the food is free for the taking, and the firewood is laying all over the place. Go where the food is everywhere, and there are no humans. You would not even need a firearm, would be nice, but not needed for food.
Hillmann
11-04-2009, 03:40 PM
I say it over and over and over.........go where the food is free for the taking, and the firewood is laying all over the place. Go where the food is everywhere, and there are no humans. You would not even need a firearm, would be nice, but not needed for food.
And whare would that be?
Sourdough
11-04-2009, 04:17 PM
And whare would that be?
Deep Bays + Search Button (read the last two threads).
Wow, Freerange! Where did you come up with that at and what do you base it on? We've seen a LOT of SHTF scenarios and I don't recall anything like you described. New Orleans, The Great Dust Bowl, The Depression all come to mind and there are plenty more examples. Nothing like you described happened. Were there problems? Of course. There will always be bad eggs in good and bad times. Did you, by chance, live through the '60s? If you were a cop or fireman then you worked in a SHTF situation with a LOT being shot at. Even then it wasn't all out warfare. Close, but even then only select areas.
SARKY
11-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Rick, I think that a lot of what Freerange said is correct. The gangs in the inner cities are very organized. If we have a total breakdown of society, they have the organization and power to take control. I mean let's be real, how much orgaization does the govt. really have? think katrina!
As to wiping out game, How many of you who are in the city or the burbs have seen the increase of wildlife in those areas? Most people today couldn't catch a fly let alone hunt a bunny or deer. Those of us who can have a large bargaining chip. The rest will be deadends in the gene pool.
All I'm asking is an example of where that has occurred. It didn't happen in Katrina and that's about as good example of SHTF and you'll find. As I said, there were areas that had trouble. The Dome had trouble. But those were isolated to small areas. Not roving, organization armies. Big difference.
Pal334
11-05-2009, 10:41 AM
I believe that Rick is on track. Katrina was a good example. A fairly large Metro area, historically with a significant gang and street violence problem. There were some isolated outbreaks of problems, but not as much as what one might have suspected. Although the gangs are organized, remember they are not sophisticated. By that I mean, when they start getting hungry, they have scarfed up the easy picking, I believe they will start to break down. Remember they have very limited skill sets that would translate to any survival situation other than attempting to terrorize folks. Especially when they start to take casualties as they spread out into the urban areas. These are the areas where typically there will be an armed and relatively capable citizenry. Just my nickels worth on the subject
Sourdough
11-05-2009, 11:53 AM
If the SHTF it would not go well for gang members. First: They would use the lack of Law and Order to attack rival gang members. Second: There would not be much if any market for drugs. But their biggest problem is that no one likes them, so not only will every rival gang be trying to kill them, everyone will be trying to kill them. If the SHTF big-time the gangs would all be gone. Law and order is the only thing that protects the Gangs. With out Law and Order the local merchants would have a "Bounty" on them.
Pal334
11-05-2009, 11:55 AM
"With out Law and Order the local merchants would have a "Bounty" on them."
I think I could scrounge up a bunch of folks that would do it for free :)
Sourdough
11-05-2009, 01:26 PM
"With out Law and Order the local merchants would have a "Bounty" on them."
I think I could scrounge up a bunch of folks that would do it for free :)
True, I think most would throw down their "Colors" if the SHTF and realize they were targets walking. Remember the part at the end of the movie "Tombstone" when the cowboys are throwing off their red sashes, and Kurt Russell yelling, You tell them HELL is coming and I am coming also".
Pal334
11-05-2009, 03:30 PM
True, I think most would throw down their "Colors" if the SHTF and realize they were targets walking. Remember the part at the end of the movie "Tombstone" when the cowboys are throwing off their red sashes, and Kurt Russell yelling, You tell them HELL is coming and I am coming also".
I have seen in my earlier days "colors" disappear when they started to get their a** kicked by the cops on a regular basis (circa 1977), Syracuse NY. Bullies and cowards sez I.
This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth. I think any predator, bad guy included, has a fairly specific territory. It's where they are comfortable and anything outside that geography takes them out of their comfort zone so they are not too keen about doing that.
As for the hunting part, I wouldn't want to be in the woods under SHTF conditions. Anything that moves will probably get shot. Unintended or not.
rwc1969
11-06-2009, 12:36 AM
The gangstas round here would head right on out to where the money, or goods is. Heck, they already do.
I'd be more worried bout organized extremist military groups trying to enforce their own idea of martial law.
rwc - IMHO, that might be a more real scenario. Those guys do "train" so it might be possible they could pose a threat. Hopefully, they would retreat to guard the "compound".
justin_baker
05-02-2010, 09:59 PM
I would skip out on carrying any type of shelter system whatsoever, instead relying on building a strong natural shelter. This would free up a few pounds to carry some good steel traps. Im not an experienced trapper or tracker, a baited connibear would be much more likely to get you a meal if you dont know what your doing. Just set it and wait. Snaring requires that you find and identify rabbit runs. Rat traps are also pretty good for getting smaller squirrels.
This would cover my small game needs pretty well, and after they were set i would spend the rest of my time stalking a deer with a rifle. I would only resort to archery if security was a huge problem(probably not, if i have to bug out to the woods i would travel extremely deep as to avoid countryside gangs and find a more unspoiled source of game. I dont care if its deep in the alaskan bush, the dangers of staying in a semi rural or area close to a city are much higher than the harsh winters of the north, provided you have at least some experience in those conditions) or if i ran out of ammunition. In that case i would probably make a bow rather than carry one in.
Camp10
05-03-2010, 05:55 AM
I would skip out on carrying any type of shelter system whatsoever, instead relying on building a strong natural shelter. This would free up a few pounds to carry some good steel traps. Im not an experienced trapper or tracker, a baited connibear would be much more likely to get you a meal if you dont know what your doing. Just set it and wait. Snaring requires that you find and identify rabbit runs. Rat traps are also pretty good for getting smaller squirrels.
This would cover my small game needs pretty well, and after they were set i would spend the rest of my time stalking a deer with a rifle. I would only resort to archery if security was a huge problem(probably not, if i have to bug out to the woods i would travel extremely deep as to avoid countryside gangs and find a more unspoiled source of game. I dont care if its deep in the alaskan bush, the dangers of staying in a semi rural or area close to a city are much higher than the harsh winters of the north, provided you have at least some experience in those conditions) or if i ran out of ammunition. In that case i would probably make a bow rather than carry one in.
Any trap you use will require you to identify the area the animal uses as a path. You can bait an animal into a snare the same way you can a conibear, give them a single path to the food and set the trap in that path. A piece of wire is much lighter and really will serve the same purpose. Just my 2 cents.
crimescene450
05-06-2010, 12:16 AM
i live right next to a small forest that has wild turkey
so id brobably hunt them
there used to be deer in the forest, but i havent seen any in a while
im not sure if they maybe died off
im pretty sure that if civilization were to collapse or something, the population would crash pretty quickly
most people like in cities and have no clue how to survive at all
but then on the flip side, most people now are 100 lbs overweight and could probably survive just off of fat stores for a year
haha
i live right next to a small forest that has wild turkey
so id brobably hunt them
there used to be deer in the forest, but i havent seen any in a while
im not sure if they maybe died off
im pretty sure that if civilization were to collapse or something, the population would crash pretty quickly
most people like in cities and have no clue how to survive at all
but then on the flip side, most people now are 100 lbs overweight and could probably survive just off of fat stores for a year
haha
Hey there, CS450!
How about hunting your way over to our Introductions Section and telling us a bit about yourself!
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813
kyratshooter
05-06-2010, 02:03 AM
I worked with hard core gang teens for several years.
Singley, they are very scared of the unknown. They like being in their own territory among their support group. They will not venture alone into the suburbs even in peacetime.
In packs, they are a little more brave but still have some very strong opinions about suburban, and espically rural people.
Out facility was in a rural area and we had almost zero escape attempts. They were afraid of the farmers. It is very odd, but being scared of the dark is very common among the gang members. Being out of sight of concrete and street lights is often terrifying for them.
oldsoldier
05-06-2010, 08:49 PM
Not so good with a stick bow, Thats why I bought my barnett wildcat crossbow.
crimescene450
05-07-2010, 01:46 AM
I worked with hard core gang teens for several years.
Singley, they are very scared of the unknown. They like being in their own territory among their support group. They will not venture alone into the suburbs even in peacetime.
In packs, they are a little more brave but still have some very strong opinions about suburban, and espically rural people.
Out facility was in a rural area and we had almost zero escape attempts. They were afraid of the farmers. It is very odd, but being scared of the dark is very common among the gang members. Being out of sight of concrete and street lights is often terrifying for them.
from my experience, most people i know who joined gangs have had a really bad life
one guy had an abusive mentally unstable dad
and his mom started going crazy from the abuse
he ran off at 15 and joined the gang
Trabitha
05-23-2010, 08:42 PM
Not really sure how gangs got into the discussion. My belief is that unless you live near a grocery store or a mall, gangs are a temporary problem at best.
As for survival, I would rely primarily on trapping, supplementing that with hunting. Trapping is a far more efficient means of meat-gathering than taking shots at something that runs away from you.
That being said, if I see any kind of delicious monkey while I'm out setting snares, I'm shooting it.
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чита (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/513335)пред (http://rearchain.ru/shop/641407)чист (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/516747)спец (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/880257)Соко (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1054021)Воро (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1062564)авто (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1679688)Бесо (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693270)Side (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1760336)Каса (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1208034)Нефе (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1814958)возр (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1054369)Malc (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1067887)Comp (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1439678)Ткач (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1463038)
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yellowcab
01-25-2026, 03:21 AM
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yellowcab
01-25-2026, 03:22 AM
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yellowcab
04-29-2026, 04:10 PM
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Кага (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1377992)*або (http://habituate.ru/t/1357437)Rand (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1354560)Phan (http://hackworker.ru/t/1679059)Alle (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1303090)кото (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1353089)Ляпу (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1369378)апос (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1373323)Кажд (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1379513)Wann (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1532778)Ефим (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1352832)Paul (http://haltstate.ru/t/1408051)ВВ*о (http://handcoding.ru/t/1439950)Desi (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1698687)(195 (http://handradar.ru/t/1442593)
Исае (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1470694)восп (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1356354)Годл (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1357182)Иофф (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1048798)Блон (http://hardasiron.ru/t/949464)XVII (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1241036)1960 (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1345293)Своб (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1254033)Петр (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1387043)Eleg (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1548069)Luca (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1547345)Spli (http://headregulator.ru/t/1548111)Кузн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1644713)Циру (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1357631)Jani (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1569142)
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Neri (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1182203)Федо (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1225692)Гунг (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1307851)cont (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1328695)прим (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1248106)Elis (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1195068)трид (http://keyserum.ru/t/1352771)Keep (http://kickplate.ru/t/1662723)Диан (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1527889)писа (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1307036)Glen (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1688601)Тере (http://kinozones.ru/film/6464)Табо (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1375210)Farl (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1383875)Back (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1762501)
Pend (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1385375)Шиле (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1386609)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549587)Jewe (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1476885)MORG (http://laborracket.ru/t/1550024)Давы (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1619710)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549511)Лэйм (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1238016)Alex (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1349012)моли (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1476375)MYST (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1564579)Комп (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1246242)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1193039)Хенн (http://laggingload.ru/t/1240551)Огар (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1286071)
запи (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1240520)Кипр (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1342422)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1783809)Степ (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1343828)Wito (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1227762)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187540)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1190116)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711597)Davi (http://landreform.ru/t/1310387)Mike (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1230952)кекл (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1353172)BONN (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161942)фарф (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1480062)прод (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/520)флак (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591099)
yellowcab
04-29-2026, 04:12 PM
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вход (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/302433)Swee (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/354852)Plan (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571759)книж (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149420)Звер (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203345)Лит* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150622)Лит* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580894)Vasi (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/583278)XVII (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/685130)сове (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684535)Лит* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689317)хара (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584517)Лит* (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689961)Чапл (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1171316)Жадь (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1171333)
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