Survive this! (Sarge's Version)

[Sarge47]

Go and look at the map on Rick's thread, then come back on here & list what you would do & take. Remember, it's YOUR mind, so it's YOUR gear!:cool2:

[trax]

Same answer.

[doug1980]

This is a great spin off thread sarge..... I like it.

I would leave my route and ETR with at least one person I trust.
I would have did my homework and checked and rechecked all my gear before the trip.
I would take my overnight pack with me...not my day pack on a trip this long.
It would have food, water, shelter, and sleeping bag.
I would have a good topo map and compass
Of course my usual knife, rope, first aid kit, folding saw
Hiking pole since there are hills to climb
Basically I would take the same stuff I would take on an overnight trip, maybe a bit over-kill but I would be prepared.

[Ken]

Now, my answer changes to: Get back to the trail, take my pain meds, and try to get out on my own, just as posted in Rick's thread.

If I just couldn't walk any distance due to my injury, it would be: Get back to the trail, crawling if necessary, take my pain meds, activate my Spot GPS, set up my camp, elevate my leg, stay warm to avoid shock, get comfortable, prepare my signaling devices, and wait for help to arrive. Oh yeah, with extra ammo, firing three shots (distress signal) would now be okay. In Rick's thread, no way was I going to waste that much ammo. If the worldwide GPS system died during my hike, and depending how my ankle was doing, I could start working my way out by myself in a few days or whenever I got bored.

This would be my Kit Inventory for the Hike, with the Weather and Facts as Posted. I pulled this from my regular equipment checklist.

Self Defense
[ ] Weapons (2), Mags., Holsters, Ammo
[ ] Survival Knife w/ Belt Sheath

Shelter/Sleeping/Warmth
[ ] Tube Tent
[ ] Space Sleeping Bivi
[ ] Space Blankets (2)

Water
[ ] Camelback 100 Hydro System - FILLED
[ ] Katadyn Pocket Purifier
[ ] Aquamira Straw
[ ] Purification Tablets

Fire/Heat/Cooking
[ ] Lighters (2)
[ ] Storm-proof Matches
[ ] Fire Starter - Magnesium
[ ] Tinder & Fire Cubes
[ ] Titanium Pot - .9 Liter
[ ] Titanium Cup, Spork, Plate & Bowl
[ ] Heavy MRE Spoons - 2
[ ] Esbit Pocket Stove
[ ] Esbit Stove Fuel
[ ] 44 Hour Candle

Food Gathering
[ ] Pocket Fishing Rod & Reel
[ ] Fishing Tackle
[ ] Snare Wire

Light
[ ] Flashlight/Batteries
[ ] Headlamp
[ ] Light Sticks
[ ] Spare Batteries
[ ] Crank Flashlight

Navigation/Signaling
[ ] Map
[ ] Garmin Oregon GPS
[ ] Spot GPS
[ ] Compass
[ ] Binoculars
[ ] Six Function Whistle
[ ] Signal Mirror
[ ] Orion Orange Smoke Signal

Communications
[ ] Regular Cell Phone
[ ] Pre-paid Cell Phone (remain anonymous if necessary)
[ ] AM-FM WB Radio (w/Cell Charger)
[ ] Spot GPS (also listed above under Navigation/Signaling)

Tools/Materials
[ ] Aluminum Foil
[ ] Paracord - 100'
[ ] Duct Tape
[ ] Leatherman Knife
[ ] Pocket Shovel
[ ] Folding Saw
[ ] Wire Saw
[ ] Zip Ties
[ ] Plastic Bags - Trash
[ ] Plastic Bags - Zip Lock
[ ] Sewing Kit
[ ] Safety Pins

First Aid/Medical
[ ] First Aid Kit
[ ] Medical Kit – OTC & Prescription (includes serious pain meds)
[ ] Snake Bite Kit
[ ] Insect Repellant

Comfort/Toiletries
[ ] Glasses
[ ] Sunglasses
[ ] Sunscreen
[ ] Chap-Stick
[ ] Mini Toiletry Kit
[ ] Tissue Packs
[ ] Micro Towels
[ ] Soap
[ ] Face/Hand Wipes
[ ] Purell
[ ] Extra Contacts w/ Solution

General Clothing - (Includes regular clothes I'm wearing, of course)
[ ] Hiking Boots - on my feet
[ ] Vest - worn at all times
[ ] Gloves in Pack
[ ] Stocking Cap in Pack
[ ] Extra Socks in Pack
[ ] Poncho in Pack
[ ] Extra thermal layer's in Pack

Cash & Documents
[ ] Cash & Credit Cards
[ ] Identification
[ ] Family & Friend Contact Info. - (To I.D. my corpse if necessary)

Rations - 10 Day Survival
[ ] Mainstay Bars (2) 3 – Packs
[ ] Mainstay Water – 2 Bags
[ ] Instant Soup - Chicken Noodle - 4
[ ] Instant Soup - Cream of Chick. - 4
[ ] Bullion - Chicken (2 cubes) - 4
[ ] Bullion - Beef (2 cubes) - 4
[ ] Tuna Mini Cans - 2
[ ] Beef Jerky - 2 lbs
[ ] Oatmeal - 4 packs
[ ] Power Bars - 8
[ ] Peanut Butter Pouches - 4
[ ] Trail Mix - 4 packs
[ ] Almonds - 4 packs
[ ] Peanuts - 4 packs
[ ] Hard Candy
[ ] Coffee Bags, Creamer, Sugar - 6
[ ] Asst. Tea Bags w/ sugar - 8
[ ] Hot Chocolate - 8 packs
[ ] Sugar Packets - 30
[ ] Crystal Lite Tubes – 16

Oh, Yeah, I forgot to mention that I also have a mini kit with the bare essentials in the pockets of my vest. I always have multiples of the essentials. Who's that guy? Klock, Klick, Kluck .... oh yeah, Klkak. Read his quote. Memorize it. Live it. (Thanks, Kevin!)

[Sarge47]

My day pack is a large ALICE pack! I also neglected to mention that I also carry a multi-tool on my belt. (Got the idea from "Batman's Utility Belt".) You can pack a lot of stuff in BDU pockets, especially the new BDU uniforms as the cargo pockets are larger & there are a couple of smaller ones down by the ankles. I use a system that I've labeled "Sarges Layering System", It starts from the human mind & works outward. Every item of clothing is used to it's maximum benifit, along with the gear that can be packed, not only in the pack, but in all of the pockets. With both the sternum & waist straps of the pack latched into place, losing the pack becomes a lot less likely. Also, NEVER forget the duct tape! Taping around the top of your boots IS a good idea. Finally, along with my 1st aid kit I carry an Ace Bandage for wrapping any type of sprain! Proper preperation includes thinking things through & considering "Murphy's Law".:cool2:

[Rick]

Sarge's Motorhome.

[Sarge47]

Sarge's Motorhome.You got my motorhome...hey. i don't really own one, so the guy you took that from is really gonna be ticked!:smash::cool2:

[Beans]

I'm staying home after spraining my ankle and crawling 5 miles on my knees to get to my truck because on Saturday afternoon my wife went to her girls friends house and didn't get home until 2:00 AM and slept in until afternoon on Sunday. She then went shopping and didn't find the note until Monday Morning.

Her response was " I wasn't worried as you have those surivial skills thingings and besides why get everyone in an uproar, you came home didn't you?"

[Rick]

Her response was " I wasn't worried as you have those surivial skills thingings and besides why get everyone in an uproar, you came home didn't you?"

That really happened, didn't it? You can't make that up. I mean, that's a perfect quote.

[FVR]

It's a 12 mile day hike, so I take my day bag which includes;

waterproof matches
flint / steel
large ind. plastic bag (brand new never take a used one)
tissues
my new tea cup oven and tea cup and of course....tea and buillon.
my little bottle of super glue
I will have the bowie, my gator and my rock.
canteen of water, 12 mile hike = two canteens.
my el cheapo first aid kit with IB.
my mil. wool blanky as it rolls up nice and small and gets tied to the top of my bag.
cell phone and some food.


If it's hunting season then it's prob. going to be my 45 Lancaster with all the gear stuffed in a snapsack.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

my canteen,my knife,magnesium flint stick,a metal bucket,a salve tin, the cheapest cook set,and my bota bag full of oil. the rest of any space is for the nite time clothes i would need to keep warm.

[endurance]

What's odd is that everyone I ride with thinks that I'm the one that is overprepared for everything. In this group, I'm sure I'd be considered a minimalist. It really doesn't matter so long as you carry what you need to be confident you'll survive.

My normal day hike kit is pretty basic and on this hike, I'd certainly supplement it some because 1) the fact that it's in wilderness, 2) I'm hiking alone, 3) the distance.

Normally in my pockets are: 3.1" H&K folding knife, magnesium firestarter, Photon II microlight, and an analog watch. If I know I'm out of cell range, I won't bring it. Otherwise, my blackberry has GPS, but depends on a cell tower for basemap data.

I'm switching over kits right now, going from a military bottle with cup (not sure who's army it's from, but it's not US) to a 16 oz. cookie tin. On the outside, it has 5-6' of duct tape wrapped near the top to serve as an insulator when heating water in it and obviously it can be removed for other purposes (e.g. wrapping that ankle for stability if it is just a sprain). Inside contents are:
4.5' surgical tubing
Photon II microlight w/hat clip
Compact multitool w/ LED light
Compact towel
Button compass
Wire saw
Whistle
Magnesium firestarter and striker
35' Trip wire/snare wire
Waterproof storm matches w/ striker
6 assorted fish hooks & 20' of 8# test line
2 Large, 2 medium, 2 small safety pins
Sail needle and 3 small needles
2-3 vasolined cotton balls
3 cubes of chicken broth
Scalpel blade
2 packets of Emergen-C

On the outside of the can I'll be wrapping it with ~20' of 550 cord.

In my normal fanny pack I always carry:
1 Orange bandana
1 pr. Wool glove
1 pr. Nytril gloves
Balaclava
1 pr. handwarmers
1 pr. toe warmers
1 bottle of 50 iodine water purification tablets
Small headlamp
Food (typically 2 packets of instant soup mix, 2 packets of hot chocolate, 4-6 chicken broth cubes, 3-4 bars, hard candies, etc.)
Esbit stove w/ 4-6 tablets
1-2 liters of water
3.5" fixed blade knife
Disposable rain poncho
Windproof jacket
Space blanket
Bug dope
Spot transciever

First aid kit:
4-0 Silk sutures
Tweezers
Bandaids
Antiseptic wipes
Sting ease wipes
Surgi-strips
Scalpel blade
3" bandaid
4x4" gauze pad
Asprin
Tylenol
Percocet
Neosporin
Q-tips
Sterile triangular bandage

On this jaunt I'm going to use a medium-sized camelbak with 100 oz. bladder, rain pants, fleece jacket, rain jacket, 8x10' nylon tarp, 50' para-cord, head net, & spare socks.

[Beans]

That really happened, didn't it? You can't make that up. I mean, that's a perfect quote.

That was a real quote from my X wife. My 1948 Jeep broke down in the southern Nevada Desert 01-01-86. Her brother and I walked over 20 miles back to town to get a friend to tow the jeep in. It was in the low 40's and we had plenty of "Gear" with us.

We were due back in town NLT 0830, with a come find us time of 10:00 AM as we had a family gathering to attend at noon.

We walked into the house just a little after 2:00 PM not much worst for the wear & tear, mostly tired. Towed the jeep in about 5:00 PM just before dark.

We were very glad it wasn't summer with the 110+ temps

[Sarge47]

Every hiker should be carrying a "10 essentials kit." We've discussed these before, but here's a refresher for the newbies as well as us older hands:

http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/ten+essentials.html (BTW, this site has tons of info for the outdoors person.)

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1232&highlight=10+essentials

Besides the 1st aid kit, Rick neglected listing a map, preferably a Topo, although anybody could have printed off the one he posted. I go way beyond the 10 E. for several reasons. I might want to camp overnight somewhere along the trail, maybe even for a couple of days, perhaps more, who knows, but I like the idea of being able to choose. Then there's "Murphy's Law", so redunancies are built in. That's how I roll!:cool2:

[lucznik]

...This would be my Kit Inventory for the Hike, with the Weather and Facts as Posted... .

Self Defense
[ ] Weapons (2), Mags., Holsters, Ammo
[ ] Survival Knife w/ Belt Sheath

Shelter/Sleeping/Warmth
[ ] Tube Tent
[ ] Space Sleeping Bivi
[ ] Space Blankets (2)

Water
[ ] Camelback 100 Hydro System - FILLED
[ ] Katadyn Pocket Purifier
[ ] Aquamira Straw
[ ] Purification Tablets
Fire/Heat/Cooking
[ ] Lighters (2)
[ ] Storm-proof Matches
[ ] Fire Starter - Magnesium
[ ] Tinder & Fire Cubes
[ ] Titanium Pot - .9 Liter
[ ] Titanium Cup, Spork, Plate & Bowl
[ ] Heavy MRE Spoons - 2
[ ] Esbit Pocket Stove
[ ] Esbit Stove Fuel
[ ] 44 Hour Candle

Food Gathering
[ ] Pocket Fishing Rod & Reel
[ ] Fishing Tackle
[ ] Snare Wire

Light
[ ] Flashlight/Batteries
[ ] Headlamp
[ ] Light Sticks
[ ] Spare Batteries
[ ] Crank Flashlight

Navigation/Signaling
[ ] Map
[ ] Garmin Oregon GPS
[ ] Spot GPS
[ ] Compass
[ ] Binoculars
[ ] Six Function Whistle
[ ] Signal Mirror
[ ] Orion Orange Smoke Signal

Communications
[ ] Regular Cell Phone
[ ] Pre-paid Cell Phone (remain anonymous if necessary)
[ ] AM-FM WB Radio (w/Cell Charger)
[ ] Spot GPS (also listed above under Navigation/Signaling)

Tools/Materials
[ ] Aluminum Foil
[ ] Paracord - 100'
[ ] Duct Tape
[ ] Leatherman Knife
[ ] Pocket Shovel
[ ] Folding Saw
[ ] Wire Saw
[ ] Zip Ties
[ ] Plastic Bags - Trash
[ ] Plastic Bags - Zip Lock
[ ] Sewing Kit
[ ] Safety Pins

First Aid/Medical
[ ] First Aid Kit
[ ] Medical Kit – OTC & Prescription (includes serious pain meds)
[ ] Snake Bite Kit
[ ] Insect Repellant

Comfort/Toiletries
[ ] Glasses
[ ] Sunglasses
[ ] Sunscreen
[ ] Chap-Stick
[ ] Mini Toiletry Kit
[ ] Tissue Packs
[ ] Micro Towels
[ ] Soap
[ ] Face/Hand Wipes
[ ] Purell
[ ] Extra Contacts w/ Solution

General Clothing - (Includes regular clothes I'm wearing, of course)
[ ] Hiking Boots - on my feet
[ ] Vest - worn at all times
[ ] Gloves in Pack
[ ] Stocking Cap in Pack
[ ] Extra Socks in Pack
[ ] Poncho in Pack
[ ] Extra thermal layer's in Pack

Cash & Documents
[ ] Cash & Credit Cards
[ ] Identification
[ ] Family & Friend Contact Info. - (To I.D. my corpse if necessary)

Rations - 10 Day Survival
[ ] Mainstay Bars (2) 3 – Packs
[ ] Mainstay Water – 2 Bags
[ ] Instant Soup - Chicken Noodle - 4
[ ] Instant Soup - Cream of Chick. - 4
[ ] Bullion - Chicken (2 cubes) - 4
[ ] Bullion - Beef (2 cubes) - 4
[ ] Tuna Mini Cans - 2
[ ] Beef Jerky - 2 lbs
[ ] Oatmeal - 4 packs
[ ] Power Bars - 8
[ ] Peanut Butter Pouches - 4
[ ] Trail Mix - 4 packs
[ ] Almonds - 4 packs
[ ] Peanuts - 4 packs
[ ] Hard Candy
[ ] Coffee Bags, Creamer, Sugar - 6
[ ] Asst. Tea Bags w/ sugar - 8
[ ] Hot Chocolate - 8 packs
[ ] Sugar Packets - 30
[ ] Crystal Lite Tubes – 16

Oh, Yeah, I forgot to mention that I also have a mini kit with the bare essentials in the pockets of my vest. I always have multiples of the essentials.


I just found this site and thought it might be interesting to see what people think is necessary for wilderness survival. I was a bit surprised...

Are you seriously going to pack all this stuff for a single-day casual-hiking trip where you are expected back before dark and where temperature extremes (as suggested in the original scenario thread) will range between 58* and 78* F?

10 days worth of food?
5 (six if you count fire) light sources?
3 (four if you count boiling) water purification systems?
2 cell-phones?
Extra Thermal layers?
Soap, Towels, and Wipes?


Your pack has got to weigh close to 70+lbs. This looks more like a multi-day vehicle-based camping trip list, not a casual day-hike list.

[palerider]

lucznik-welcome to the site, i understand your feelings, see i used to be like ken, i had a zippo lighter and can of fuel, matches, regular lighter, swedish fire steel and a flare, then i started to study and learn and practice and live and was able to free myself incredibly now i only need my firesteel. some mentally need more because they have not learned their craft fully yet, they do not trust themselves or what they carry.

[lucznik]

lucznik-welcome to the site, i understand your feelings, see i used to be like ken, i had a zippo lighter and can of fuel, matches, regular lighter, swedish fire steel and a flare, then i started to study and learn and practice and live and was able to free myself incredibly now i only need my firesteel. some mentally need more because they have not learned their craft fully yet, they do not trust themselves or what they carry.
What you saying is basically true, but I wasn't intending to infer any lack of skill on Ken's part. I don't know him at all so; how could I make such a judgement?

What I was questioning is whether he perhaps misread the parameters of the scenario and was thus assuming that there was either more time involved and/or more severe environmental conditions involved.

I just can't see anyone carrying that much stuff on a day hike.

[lucznik]

I guess to be fair I should have posted my basic list as well for comparison purposes:


Backpack - Kelty Tongass 44.0
Camera - Nikon CoolPix L18 6.5
First Aid - Small First Aid Kit** 2.7
Lighter - Small "Bic" lighter 0.4
Fire Starter - FireSteel + tinder 1.9
Flashlight - Princeton Tech LED 2.8
GPS - Garmin Foretrex 101 2.9
Compass - Sun Mini Orienteering Compass 0.3
Topo Map - Topo Map of entire unit 1.0
Phone - Cell Phone 3.2
Rope - 75' Paracord 2.7
Scriptures - Mini Scriptures 4.0
Bug Dope - 100% Deet 2.8
Toilet Paper 1/3 roll - 2 ply 4.1
Outer Shell - Waterproof Jacket 29.2
Gloves - Fleece Gloves 1.4
Handgun - S&W M34 .22 LR 29.5
Ammo - Hollowpoints 4.9
Binoculars - Pentax DCF MC II 8x25 10.5
Hunting Knife - BuckLite Ultralight Folder 2.5
Camp Knife - Swiss Army Fieldmaster 3.4
Sharpener - Gerber Pen-Style sharpener 1.5
Garbage Bag - Black Lawn and Garden Bag 1.1
H2O Purification - Potable Aqua Purification tabs 1.1
Cup - Aluminum half-canteen pot 4.5
Granola Bars - Nature Valley Fruit and Nut 4.2
Jerky - 4 ounces per day 4.0
Hard Candy - Lemon Drops (1 oz. = 8 drops) 1.0
Candy - Variety of M&Ms 5.1
GORP - Raisins, Mixed Nuts, etc. 8.0
Crackers - Peanut Butter Crackers 4.2


Subtotal 195.4 oz (12.2 lbs)


Hydration System Water Bladder (FULL) 63.0


Total 258.4 oz (16.2 lbs)


** First Aid Kit

Bandaids
4x4 Gauze
Duct Tape
Alcohol Swabs
Antibiotic Ointment
Needle + Thread
Pepto Tabs/Tums
Antihistamines
Decongestants
Tylenol
Halls

[Alpine_Sapper]

lucznik-welcome to the site, i understand your feelings, see i used to be like ken, i had a zippo lighter and can of fuel, matches, regular lighter, swedish fire steel and a flare, then i started to study and learn and practice and live and was able to free myself incredibly now i only need my firesteel. some mentally need more because they have not learned their craft fully yet, they do not trust themselves or what they carry.

or, we just prefer to have a backup or two. What happens when you lose your firesteel? whoops, the knife went with it, so now, even if you can use a fire bow, fire thong, or any of the other primitive methods to make fire, can you construct IT? How long will it take you? will you succumb to the elements before you gitrdun?

No, on a day hike in Texas I would not take such redundant systems. I would take at least 3 different methods of water purification, and since one of those would be boiling, redundant fire starting methods is a requirement.

No matter how good I learn my "craft", I believe in finding a balance between being prepared and being a sherpa.

[crashdive123]

lucznik-welcome to the site, i understand your feelings, see i used to be like ken, i had a zippo lighter and can of fuel, matches, regular lighter, swedish fire steel and a flare, then i started to study and learn and practice and live and was able to free myself incredibly now i only need my firesteel. some mentally need more because they have not learned their craft fully yet, they do not trust themselves or what they carry.

So --- your line always be prepared-prepare all ways is what? Something you don't really believe in?

[trax]

So --- your line always be prepared-prepare all ways is what? Something you don't really believe in?

No silly, he means that he knows his craft well enough that he is prepared, although...I've heard that he does use that line at parties when there are cute chicks around and his wife isn't listening....:sneaky2:

[wareagle69]

or, we just prefer to have a backup or two. What happens when you lose your firesteel? whoops, the knife went with it, so now, even if you can use a fire bow, fire thong, or any of the other primitive methods to make fire, can you construct IT? How long will it take you? will you succumb to the elements before you gitrdun?

No, on a day hike in Texas I would not take such redundant systems. I would take at least 3 different methods of water purification, and since one of those would be boiling, redundant fire starting methods is a requirement.

No matter how good I learn my "craft", I believe in finding a balance between being prepared and being a sherpa.

you lose tools thru the lack of being prepared. i carry my firesteel on my belt, when i am finished with my knife it goes firmly back in my sheath safe and secure then i finnish what i was doing. i all the years i have ben spending time in thewilds i have never lost and tool.i call it being prepared

[wareagle69]

No silly, he means that he knows his craft well enough that he is prepared, although...I've heard that he does use that line at parties when there are cute chicks around and his wife isn't listening....:sneaky2:

crash is still butt hurt about what transpired between him and palerider sooooooo many moons ago, he knows full well that i know my firecraft well enough to rely fully upon my firesteel

[crashdive123]

crash is still butt hurt about what transpired between him and palerider sooooooo many moons ago, he knows full well that i know my firecraft well enough to rely fully upon my firesteel

Him? Hah! I just think that Palerider is a pompus arogant arse. But hey, he's your friend - you know him better.

[Alpine_Sapper]

you lose tools thru the lack of being prepared. i carry my firesteel on my belt, when i am finished with my knife it goes firmly back in my sheath safe and secure then i finnish what i was doing. i all the years i have ben spending time in thewilds i have never lost and tool.i call it being prepared

sure, that's one reason you lose a tool. My point is that redundancy is good within reason. relying on ONE tool per job is a really bad survival stategy imho. Can I get the job done if I do lose the tool? Sure. But why make it hard on yourself? Murphy's a mother****er sometimes.

[wareagle69]

that is not what is taught in the rangers. or anywhere else that i am aware of. beleive me i used to carry multiple ways of starting a fire or purifying water, but with time i have gained a confidence that i can carry allot less, most are not like this and i do not condemn for that, it is just that i am extremly confident in my skills and awareness of my tools. the key is to take your time slow down and you may end up going quicker.if this does not work for you or you are not comfortable with my system that is ok, i am simply respoding to a question of why 4 or 5 ways to start a fire for a day trip and i simply shared my experience before and after i have spent soooo much time perfecting my skills

[Alpine_Sapper]

that is not what is taught in the rangers. or anywhere else that i am aware of. beleive me i used to carry multiple ways of starting a fire or purifying water, but with time i have gained a confidence that i can carry allot less, most are not like this and i do not condemn for that, it is just that i am extremly confident in my skills and awareness of my tools. the key is to take your time slow down and you may end up going quicker.if this does not work for you or you are not comfortable with my system that is ok, i am simply respoding to a question of why 4 or 5 ways to start a fire for a day trip and i simply shared my experience before and after i have spent soooo much time perfecting my skills

hey, to each their own. As for belief that a backup tool is worth carrying, I couldn't care less if the rangers teach it, les stroud teaches it, or it's tattoo'ed on the wolf packs collective arse. I see absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a lighter and a water filter in your daypack, and carrying a bottle of potable aqua and a firesteel in a cargo pocket in case you lose your pack. As I said, redundancy is good. As I said, redundancy is good. As I said, redundancy is good.

And from past experience on the board, I'm absolutely amazed no one else is chiming in on this. With everyone so worried about what a numpty might do if they read their post, stating it's fine to go out into the woods with only one means of purifying water, one means of starting a fire, one knife, etc. can get someone without your oodles of experience killed.

[palerider]

thats correct which is why i have repeated with every post that i used to carry multiple means of firestarting andwater purification but as my expertice grew then i was able to carry less, i think that is preety obvious to the less experienced here.

[Ken]

My pack weighs less than 50 lbs. Carrying it is good exercise. And one of my favorite words is "redundancy."

"In engineering, redundancy is the duplication of critical components of a system with the intention of increasing reliability of the system, usually in the case of a backup or fail-safe." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundancy_(engineering)

Do you have electricity in your home? Do you have a back-up generator? Do you have battery operated flashlights and lanterns? How about candles? If you answered "yes" to more than one question, my next question is "Why?"

I was an emergency planner. I believe in back-ups to back-ups. The lives of others depended on the manner in which I prepared. Why should I treat my own life differently?

In both Rick's scenario and Sarge's scenario, anything I carry may have been essential to my comfort or survival. I may have been there for days without the ability to move or the luck to be rescued. We were told to assume nothing. What if: I was on vacation (or was unemployed) and wasn't expected to be back to work on Monday? OR I was a loner and nobody would have missed my absence for days? OR Someone had stolen my car and nobody would have any reason to even know where I was? OR The weather became miserable for days and nobody was hiking in that area?

Five miles out in the wilderness alone? Yep, at the very least I would have had the equipment and supplies I needed to survive.

BTW: Most of my equipment is ultralight, and I am proficient at using what I carry.

[palerider]

yawn, ho hum, click

[Rick]

You are so bad, you know that don't you?

[rebel]

freakinbear thingy. snicker.

[Ken]

yawn, ho hum, click

I sincerely hope you never have to eat those words. However, if you get in a predicament, words may be the only thing you have to eat.

I can't even count the number of times I've come to the aid of an "expert boater" or an "expert hiker" or an "expert swimmer." With your attitude, I'll bet that someone will pull your expert butt out of the fire someday.:sneaky2:

[Rick]

You know, Rebel. I put on a bear suit just like that once and I danced almost like that guy is. I like to never got that danged thing off. It was full of fire ants. I think that's his problem, too.

[lucznik]

Wow! I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to start a battle here.

I was simply commenting that the list(s) posted seemed a bit long and therefore heavy to me, at least for a day trip. I'll be more careful next time.



I do however, think we have very different definitions for the word "ultralight."

[rebel]

You know, Rebel. I put on a bear suit just like that once and I danced almost like that guy is. I like to never got that danged thing off. It was full of fire ants. I think that's his problem, too.

If I did a split like that bear I'd still be on the ground.

[rebel]

Wow! I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to start a battle here.

I was simply commenting that the list(s) posted seemed a bit long and therefore heavy to me, at least for a day trip. I'll be more careful next time.



I do however, think we have very different definitions for the word "ultralight."

freakinbear used that avatar and so, I thought, incoming.

[crashdive123]

I think he meant his comments about carrying too much gear.

[Ken]

Weighed my pack. 31 pounds with an empty hydration bladder.

[endurance]

I'm assuming some of Ken's list is just a standard list, rather than customized for this trip. Perhaps I'm wrong, but if I know I'm in an area with no cell coverage, I'm sure not bringing two cell phones. I also won't bring 10 days worth of food on a day hike, but then bring a space blanket rather than a proper sleeping bag.

It's a good list to get you thinking, but personally, I toss things in and out of my pack based on need all the time. If I'm hiking a trail that has 50 visitors a day, I'm going to bring more first aid stuff (for them, not me) and leave out other items like my signal mirror, flares, and fishing tackle. If I get into trouble, my whistle will be my rescue (and I have a built in back up unless I lose my lips, in which case neither works). Common sense has to apply in all cases.

[lucznik]

Weighed my pack. 31 pounds with an empty hydration bladder. You weighed your pack with all of the things on that list in it and it came to 31 lbs? I would love to see the itemized weights.

[wareagle69]

I sincerely hope you never have to eat those words. However, if you get in a predicament, words may be the only thing you have to eat.

I can't even count the number of times I've come to the aid of an "expert boater" or an "expert hiker" or an "expert swimmer." With your attitude, I'll bet that someone will pull your expert butt out of the fire someday.:sneaky2:

never said i was an expert, just well informed and well trained

[Ken]

never said i was an expert, just well informed and well trained

That post wasn't directed to you, Wareagle. I was responding directly to Palerider.

[Rick]

Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are.

[Ken]

Now that right there is funny, I don't care who you are.

What's with the bear avitar? Is this a permanent change of clans or just a little temporary mutiny?

[wareagle69]

That post wasn't directed to you, Wareagle. I was responding directly to Palerider.

opps my bad, ifn i was you i would really give it to that ol rascally palerider, although if ya got to know him you might like him he is a great guy, a true man upon men, an inspiration to others, a true outdoors guru.. i could go on and on

[Ken]

opps my bad, ifn i was you i would really give it to that ol rascally palerider, although if ya got to know him you might like him he is a great guy, a true man upon men, an inspiration to others, a true outdoors guru.. i could go on and on

I'm onto the scam. NOW I understand how you slipped up. :sneaky2:

[wareagle69]

scam what scam

[Ken]

scam what scam:innocent::innocent::innocent::innocent:

You forgot the "innocent smilies." I added them for you.

[nell67]

Took you a while to catch on there Ken!

[Ken]

Took you a while to catch on there Ken!

Very little sleep lately.:sleeping::sleep1::sleep:

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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Giov (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1328662)Кудр (http://gascautery.ru/t/1490134)Иллю (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1387782)Коле (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1386777)Ефим (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1357337)�тих (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1565382)клей (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1686294)архи (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1342854)О�ет (http://geartreating.ru/t/1349370)Мала (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1349176)Штай (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1374555)Phil (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1551089)Tort (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1550376)Orie (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1378509)Бузи (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1060317)
Мень (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1374120)Шмер (http://habituate.ru/t/1351030)Сухи (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1250686)Майк (http://hackworker.ru/t/1584261)Бара (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1248756)�бор (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1342442)Кацм (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1356282)Шуга (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1350882)Корч (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1352325)движ (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1447698)Juli (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1320057)�льш (http://haltstate.ru/t/1345342)Тотр (http://handcoding.ru/t/1355402)Elvi (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1697024)Петр (http://handradar.ru/t/1353037)
Попк (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1371583)Plat (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1285562)Fred (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1256532)John (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/921916)Башм (http://hardasiron.ru/t/948453)West (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1198042)подх (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1306844)Кудр (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1244778)Pier (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1373366)Fall (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1547972)Sela (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1547244)Vent (http://headregulator.ru/t/1548022)комп (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1644550)Копт (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1345769)англ (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1547375)
Wend (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1243423)Секо (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/834315)Emil (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1199596)Дроз (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1612089)у�та (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1085463)Кугу (http://jobstress.ru/t/1345824)окон (http://jogformation.ru/t/1244261)Mons (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1293163)Джао (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1241848)Лемб (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1384783)Леви (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1238814)анто (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1246972)Варм (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1228989)Fall (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1189246)Eleg (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1189435)
Sony (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1182097)Tony (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1049653)Герш (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1246954)Шабр (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1244711)назв (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1244577)�туд (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1015922)�гаф (http://keyserum.ru/t/1254379)(186 (http://kickplate.ru/t/1584451)Mike (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1505478)Соро (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1241149)Behe (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1688397)Года (http://kinozones.ru/film/6431)XIII (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1348794)Лепк (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1371541)Secr (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1757588)
Слав (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1369347)Ð*ихт (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1370757)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549490)Best (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1419735)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/1549900)Supe (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1559895)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549218)Llew (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1210210)Olof (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1315145)Кова (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1352707)Мило (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1403475)Robe (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1243219)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192941)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1191213)Mich (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1244672)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192981)иÑ�ку (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1246188)аппа (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1642382)Ð*оÑ�к (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1304106)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1186018)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187444)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1190018)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1711549)Frit (http://landreform.ru/t/1242390)Orbi (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1216621)Ð�ахо (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1328498)мате (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161892)века (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1434349)меÑ�Ñ� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/487)хоро (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591039)

[yellowcab]

Anna (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1194850)Mabe (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452581)Cata (http://layabout.ru/shop/599690)кра� (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600469)Matt (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106447)Во�к (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466133)Abel (http://leaveword.ru/shop/577189)Леви (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/302364)Chik (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576664)3966 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446408)Smel (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269153)Reit (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/616136)коль (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576981)Sony (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612486)Bion (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040543)
Sier (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/601180)Ипат (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1591)Inst (http://mp3lists.ru/item/5903)Федо (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151088)Vali (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/563979)Easy (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461928)допо (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055979)изде (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576459)Гонк (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103125)упра (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455504)книг (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178707)Adob (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/622338)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/642270)Mega (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/447790)Tani (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10337)
Chou (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/175881)Trus (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/272068)Roya (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571723)пере (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149352)Ð�еÑ�Ñ‚ (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203287)Flas (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150501)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580647)wwwn (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/583152)Мала (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/685003)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684391)Ð*ома (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689207)ВанÑ� (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584406)Ð�ндр (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689843)Howa (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1171177)Rosa (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1171171)
мате (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1174239)Кра� (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1173372)�тих (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543303)назн (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1539134)Марк (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/596416)This (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/765030)бодр (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1073362)кине (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1076104)Cedr (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/345691)Цапк (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510605)пред (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/634970)Теат (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/897934)Павл (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/934704)оруж (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1210553)Ивли (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/392795)
унив (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515221)Viet (http://rearchain.ru/shop/791307)jhjd (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/644620)газе (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1029344)Щело (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1055407)Грех (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1063635)увле (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1686455)Acti (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694052)окон (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1766597)Горо (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775292)Кова (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1820191)Ogil (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1058497)Яроч (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1850367)Fili (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1876391)�кза (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1898085)
СинÑ� (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1494069)Bern (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1496526)авто (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1497003)Вруб (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1584391)учит (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1431550)Ð*оди (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1492932)Matt (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/347571)Лерн (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/402009)Иван (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/403050)публ (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1689876)меÑ�Ñ� (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/487)меÑ�Ñ� (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/487)меÑ�Ñ� (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/487)Tops (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/484298)Gues (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/492442)
Grea (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/499832)знан (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/502700)жизн (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489081)Форм (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/500478)Бедн (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1823375)Ð*Ñ�бо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1881878)Сени (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1915267)Jeff (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/790340)прог (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/403008)авто (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/982181)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Серг (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/982506)СоÑ�Ñ‚ (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/484671)