View Full Version : Carry laws in the woods
RichJ
03-12-2009, 05:03 PM
I just got into a big session with co-workers about carrying a gun in the woods. I got a bunch of different positions and none of them were what I thought was right. I have always open carried with a pistol in a holster on my hip (we do have bears in my woods). I was told you can't do that because my State (Arkansas) doesn't have an open carry law. I am usually on National Forest land but i wouldn't think that would matter. I'm not talking about in or around recreational areas or campgrounds, I mean deep in the woods where no one is around. Can I leagally do this? Two years ago, about 10 miles from where i usually camp, a little girl was drug out of her tent at a campground at night and was killed (there was food in the tent). I have a 12 year old myself and the only thing he is afraid of in the woods is a bear, and he wont go camping with me unless I have my pistol. It's pretty unlikely I'd ever see a Ranger or Warden where I go but I'd hate to think I was breaking the law.
doug1980
03-12-2009, 05:09 PM
I think the best advise would be to call the police department or fish and game in your area and ask them. I know the laws for that here and back home in Indiana, but know nothing about your area.
The Bush administration, issued an order allowing loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges just days before leaving office. The new rule, which took effect Jan. 9, 2009, set aside a 25-year-old policy that allowed guns in parks only if they were unloaded, or dismantled and stored in a vehicle.
The Obama administration is now reviewing the rule change. However, many lawmakers from both parties support a measure making the Bush rule federal law.
In any event, natonal park/forest or not, your state and local laws still govern as well. If the Feds say "YES" and you state says "NO", it's still "NO."
Depends on the state. In Ga. if you have a gun permit, that also doubles as a ccw, you can carry you pistolla concealed in all but State parks.
If you don't have a gun permit, then you are sol.
Best bet is to google concealed carry laws. You will get a few good sites that will inform you about all states.
crashdive123
03-12-2009, 05:27 PM
Currently Arkansas does not allow open carry. (Just telling you what the law is not what to do) That may soon change according to a news story from one of your papers today. http://www.nwarktimes.com/nwat/News/74748/ My state (Florida) is another state that does not allow open carry. Carrying to protect yourself and your family? Know the laws and the possible consequences and then let your conscience be your guide.
State-by-State Firearms Information:
http://www.gunlaws.com/links/
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/Gun_Laws_by_State.htm
The answer is...it depends. It depends on whose ground you are on. It can get confusing. An example. In Indiana, I can carry open or concealed with my permit. I could even walk in Wal-Mart with an open carry and be legal (not that I would). I can open carry on state property. I can even carry in the National Forest (which generally abides by state law). But I can not carry at all on Corps of Engineers property. Not open, not concealed and that pretty much goes nation wide.
Here's a link to Arkansas law and I don't see where you can carry open anywhere. See the link to the law an this page.
http://www.asp.arkansas.gov/divisions/rs/rs_chl.html#app
I think I'd invest in bear spray.
chiye tanka
03-12-2009, 05:47 PM
The last time I checked, in FL, you cannot carry in a national forest. I could be wrong, LEO's are covered differently.
The last time I checked, in FL, you cannot carry in a national forest. I could be wrong, LEO's are covered differently.
Today, full time LEO's, who have met their department's qualifying requirements within the past year, can carry almost anywhere in any state. This includes airlines (with proper department authorization and notice to the airline - Flying While Armed Form must be completed) if on duty and most government buildings and properties. However, there are some exceptions. Check ahead of time to be certain. Retired LEO's (10 years or more of honorable service) who continue to qualify annually can also generally carry interstate as well.
wildography
03-12-2009, 06:47 PM
I agree; best bet is to check for applicable laws for where ever you will be carrying.
Having said that, however, I, personally, never liked carrying a handgun in open sight (with the exception - of course - being in the military). I always prefer to not let others know what (or if) I'm carrying.
There was even a time, a long time ago, when I carried, a few times, a handgun in a leather Bible case (that had a Bible in it, also; it also had a bumper sticker on the outside of the Bible case that said "angels watching over me" - !)
And with all due respect to any law enforcement officers here, I'd rather not have a law enforcement officer even KNOW that I'm carrying. It just saves on some hassle. But, then again, you don't want to break any laws or have a cop start to "get nervous" about what you might be carrying... so walk with wisdom.
RichJ
03-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Rick, the link you gave was all about concealed carry. Oh, I forgot to mention that this area is a Wildlife Management Area within the National forest and you can hunt on it. What is the difference in having a .22 pistol in your hand and a hunting license while trapping fur bearers (the season that's pretty much year round anyway) and just having another gun in a holster (I carry 9mm)?
RichJ
03-12-2009, 07:07 PM
PS: I often just shoot for the fun of it out there. It's just about the only place I have to shoot.
Beans
03-12-2009, 09:45 PM
I have always open carried with a pistol in a holster on my hip (we do have bears in my woods).
just having another gun in a holster (I carry 9mm)?
You might want to rethink 9mm vs bears
dolfan87
03-12-2009, 10:11 PM
You might want to rethink 9mm vs bears
In a handgun...what caliber would be proper for bears?
crashdive123
03-12-2009, 10:20 PM
In a handgun...what caliber would be proper for bears?
Ready - - - - Set - - - - Go!
http://kcfac.kilgore.cc.tx.us/mobleypageap2/images/can%20of%20worms.jpg
Rich - Indiana's CCW law gives the right to possess without specifying concealed or open. Your CCW law specifies concealed. Still, I'd check with the State Police to verify state law and check with the management office of the wildlife management area to verify the law within their boundaries.
The difference between your .22 in hand and a hunting rifle is whatever the law states. For example, you can't carry a pistol, concealed or otherwise, while hunting in Indiana UNLESS you have a CCW. Then you can carry open or closed. Your state will be specific on what you can or can't do. I'd guess they are pretty strict judging from that law. There must have been 25 places you can not carry concealed. In Indiana there are only 4.
Ready - - - - Set - - - - Go!
http://kcfac.kilgore.cc.tx.us/mobleypageap2/images/can%20of%20worms.jpg
Mmmmmmmmm. Protein.
RichJ
03-12-2009, 10:40 PM
We have little bitty black bears here in Arkansas and a loud noise is usually enought to chase them off; But they can get very aggressive when they have cubs and especially if you get between them and their young. I've known of people who have run off black bears by throwing rocks and yelling, surely a 9mm would do the trick.
RichJ
03-12-2009, 10:41 PM
The difference between your .22 in hand and a hunting rifle is whatever the law states. For example, you can't carry a pistol, concealed or otherwise, while hunting in Indiana UNLESS you have a CCW. Then you can carry open or closed. Your state will be specific on what you can or can't do. I'd guess they are pretty strict judging from that law. There must have been 25 places you can not carry concealed. In Indiana there are only 4.
In Arkansas you can carry a pistol to hunt if you are checking traps.
doug1980
03-12-2009, 10:42 PM
In a handgun...what caliber would be proper for bears?
Well a hear a .44 is the best. But then again how well can one shoot with a bear charging and not miss. Honestly I believe all a handgun is gonna do is give one security, more than likely false security.
Just be very careful out there! You never know when Ken might show up!!!!!!
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn821l.jpg
wildography
03-12-2009, 10:49 PM
In a handgun...what caliber would be proper for bears?
.357 minimum; some of the other guys, here, can give you better options/ideas as far as loads, etc... but for Griz/Brown Bear, I'd say .44 would be the minimum though a .45 semi auto may work too... but I'd want to use every round... saving the last shot for if the bear gets to you. Then, shove it in his mouth (or eye) and pull the trigger.
For Black Bears, a 9 mil may work... but I'd hate to find out that it just pissed him off... In that case... save the last 3 rounds for touching distance.
Just be very careful out there! You never know when Ken might show up!!!!!!
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/for/lowres/forn821l.jpg
Sounds legitimate to me. Liability and damages. That's all you need.
RichJ
03-12-2009, 10:58 PM
.For Black Bears, a 9 mil may work... but I'd hate to find out that it just pissed him off... In that case... save the last 3 rounds for touching distance.
I've seen huge black bears in California that probably went 800+ lbs. Those are not what we have in AR. A great big one here might get 350-400 lbs. maybe. The couple I've seen looked more like big dogs.
endurance
03-13-2009, 12:31 AM
Wild, why not apply for your CCW so you don't have to worry about it? I just did it and it's super easy in Colorado now. You just need to take a basic handgun safety course (6-12 hours depending on which one you do) and apply to your local sheriff's office. It cost $152, but that's for five years. There's a 90 day delay in issuing them because of the backlog, but I think it's worth the hassle. I may only carry a handful of times a year, but it's nice to know that you can without worry.
RichJ
03-13-2009, 01:02 AM
Wild, why not apply for your CCW so you don't have to worry about it? I just did it and it's super easy in Colorado now. You just need to take a basic handgun safety course (6-12 hours depending on which one you do) and apply to your local sheriff's office. It cost $152, but that's for five years. There's a 90 day delay in issuing them because of the backlog, but I think it's worth the hassle. I may only carry a handful of times a year, but it's nice to know that you can without worry.
In my state its $150 for the class and another $140 I think for the permit.
Also, with CCW you still have to have it concealed. I've been carrying it on the hip.
Man, oh man. In Indiana it's $90 for a lifetime.
crashdive123
03-13-2009, 08:01 AM
$65 every 7 years in Florida.
RichJ
03-13-2009, 09:26 AM
Man, oh man. In Indiana it's $90 for a lifetime.
But you still have to pay for the class too right?
crashdive123
03-13-2009, 11:19 AM
.357 minimum; some of the other guys, here, can give you better options/ideas as far as loads, etc... but for Griz/Brown Bear, I'd say .44 would be the minimum though a .45 semi auto may work too... but I'd want to use every round... saving the last shot for if the bear gets to you. Then, shove it in his mouth (or eye) and pull the trigger.
For Black Bears, a 9 mil may work... but I'd hate to find out that it just pissed him off... In that case... save the last 3 rounds for touching distance.
Not meaning to stir up a hornets nest (but this probably will) could you elaborate? I do not live in bear country, but have heard the advice of many that do. From all of the advice I have received from the "been there, done that" crowd it doesn't seem like this would be a feasable option. What I mean is - if there is a large bear charging at about thirty miles an hour - there isn't much time - and the first swipe of a claw laden paw will probably be the only one needed to dispatch its prey. Like I said - I don't live in bear country, so always open to learning.
doug1980
03-13-2009, 12:08 PM
But you still have to pay for the class too right?
No class required. At least 3 years ago anyway.
Nope. No class. You fill out the form, get fingerprinted, pay your money and wait for the background check. That's it. You can get a 4 year or lifetime permit. There is a charge break down but I think my total cost was $90 for the lifetime permit.
Geronimo!
03-13-2009, 02:31 PM
If you it's unlawful to carry a concealed weapon and you're worried about bears....
http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442587525&emssrcid=GoogleBase
A 9 mil is just gonna make him mad, this will make them **** where they're standing.
doug1980
03-13-2009, 02:37 PM
Nope. No class. You fill out the form, get fingerprinted, pay your money and wait for the background check. That's it. You can get a 4 year or lifetime permit. There is a charge break down but I think my total cost was $90 for the lifetime permit.
Hey Rick just curious. I thought I remember reading in the Indiana hunting regs a few years back that you couldn't carry a handgun while hunting. But then they allowed people to hunt with a handgun of .357 or higher, for deer that is. I think that was Indiana any way.
wildography
03-13-2009, 07:43 PM
Not meaning to stir up a hornets nest (but this probably will) could you elaborate?
Well, what I mean is... I'd hate to empty my handgun at a charging Griz or brown bear and find out that none of the rounds could stop him before he got to me. I wouldn't want to have to "play dead" or end up whacking it on the head with an empty handgun. Thus, saving the last round for a certain killing shot.
Of course, that's assuming that I don't poop my pants and pass out from fright when I see this big ol' Brown bear charging me! LOL
Now, I have been "bluff-charged" about 20 times by Black Bears (while living in Yosemite Valley and working Security); The first 10 or 12 times got really exciting for a few moments, but I eventually learned what to expect and what to do. With them, I learned to act like a big brown bear/Griz and that I was going to rip their head off. (Warning - that may not always work with Black Bears... especially those East of the Mississippi)
A little back ground on my reasoning re the "saving the last round". In the U.S.A.F. (Security Specialist) and other security related firearms training, I was always taught the "double-tap", evaluate result, "double-tap", evaluate the result, etc... (I'd rather not turn this into a firearms training post... because there are so many variables re: weapon type, situation, etc) I also realize that everyone is different and has different levels of expertise re firearms (that, too, has many variables), so I'm just saying what I would do... other people might do things competely different. But I have enough confidence in my training, skill level, experience, etc that I'm reasonably sure that I'd score killing shots with every shot (for several years, I used to shoot about 200 rounds a week - often practicing what I called "eye shots" at 40 yards, and "speed shooting" at 7 yards) ... but then again... I've never been charged by a Grizzly!
crashdive123
03-13-2009, 07:50 PM
Thanks for the answer. Somebody on here used an analogy for describing a charging grizz that went something like this - somebody throws a baseball at you - now unhoslter your handgun and shoot it before it hits you. I am not confident enough in my abilities to do that. I too had a bit of military training. I taught shipboard anti-terrorist tactics. I did not teach the double tap method - I taught keep shooting until the threat was eliminated. Even with my confidence with a firearm, I don't think I am good enough to rely strictly on a hand gun. From everything that people have posted that live in bear country I would probably go with bear spray. Thanks again for the response.
doug1980
03-13-2009, 08:01 PM
Thanks for the answer. Somebody on here used an analogy for describing a charging grizz that went something like this - somebody throws a baseball at you - now unhoslter your handgun and shoot it before it hits you. I am not confident enough in my abilities to do that. I too had a bit of military training. I taught shipboard anti-terrorist tactics. I did not teach the double tap method - I taught keep shooting until the threat was eliminated. Even with my confidence with a firearm, I don't think I am good enough to rely strictly on a hand gun. From everything that people have posted that live in bear country I would probably go with bear spray. Thanks again for the response.
I'm not confident either crash and I have had my share of firearms training. And I shoot a lot. You will never know how well you may or may not do until it happens. And I have never heard of the double tap method and I have been in the Air Force for 6 years.
crashdive123
03-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Oh, I know what the double tap method is, I just don't use it.
wildography
03-13-2009, 08:54 PM
after I sent a private message to Crash, I did a search on the older messages and found this excellent thread on handling bears...
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5188&highlight=handguns
The above thread also highlights the benefits of bear spray, as mentioned by Crash.
Doug - Here's the skinny on Indiana:
"No license is required to possess a rifle,
shotgun or muzzle-loading firearm (including
muzzleloading handguns). You must have a
permit to carry and/or hunt with a handgun.
Landowners may hunt on their own property
without a handgun permit. It is legal to carry a
concealed handgun while hunting, if you possess
a personal protection permit.
You may apply for a handgun permit at your
local county sheriff’s office. You must be at
least 18 years old to obtain a handgun permit.
Non-residents using a handgun must have a
permit issued by their home state. If their home
state does not issue handgun permits, they may
not hunt with a handgun in Indiana."
doug1980
03-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Doug - Here's the skinny on Indiana:
"No license is required to possess a rifle,
shotgun or muzzle-loading firearm (including
muzzleloading handguns). You must have a
permit to carry and/or hunt with a handgun.
Landowners may hunt on their own property
without a handgun permit. It is legal to carry a
concealed handgun while hunting, if you possess
a personal protection permit.
You may apply for a handgun permit at your
local county sheriffs office. You must be at
least 18 years old to obtain a handgun permit.
Non-residents using a handgun must have a
permit issued by their home state. If their home
state does not issue handgun permits, they may
not hunt with a handgun in Indiana."
Hummm yeah musta seen that somewhere else than. Yeah I've had a CC in Indiana for 5 years I think, gotta figure out how I can renew it from up here.
I don't see anything in the statute the excludes non-residents. I suppose it would be up the sheriff or police chief.
http://www.state.in.us/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch2.html
You do have to be of reputable character. I was challenged on that and simply told them they probably wouldn't find a bigger character than me. For some reason, they agreed.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I just got into a big session with co-workers about carrying a gun in the woods. I got a bunch of different positions and none of them were what I thought was right. I have always open carried with a pistol in a holster on my hip (we do have bears in my woods). I was told you can't do that because my State (Arkansas) doesn't have an open carry law. I am usually on National Forest land but i wouldn't think that would matter. I'm not talking about in or around recreational areas or campgrounds, I mean deep in the woods where no one is around. Can I leagally do this? Two years ago, about 10 miles from where i usually camp, a little girl was drug out of her tent at a campground at night and was killed (there was food in the tent). I have a 12 year old myself and the only thing he is afraid of in the woods is a bear, and he wont go camping with me unless I have my pistol. It's pretty unlikely I'd ever see a Ranger or Warden where I go but I'd hate to think I was breaking the law.
Well, as an Arkansas officer I can say that NO, you have no right to "open carry" in this state. However, if no one sees you then you're not going to get in trouble. On the same token, I really wouldn't care if I happened to cross paths with you once we had a little discussion. You do have the right to obtain a concealed handgun license which is valid in state parks, national parks (provided there is such a law), and I believe the USFS honors them as well.
I can suggest, however, that by carrying it openly any officer may feel as if you're hunting unlawfully as you would have ready access to your handgun which I assume is a large caliber weapon due to your intent to "stop bears" with it. Should an officer have this interpretation then you could be cited and probably lose your firearm.
Also, if another hiker or camper happened to cross paths with you and report the matter then an officer would make an attempt to come find you and go from there. Do yourself a favor and conceal it.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 01:37 PM
I just saw that you're carrying a 9mm. That's simple enough to conceal. Why branish it in the open thus causing undue scrutiny.
RichJ
03-14-2009, 02:34 PM
I just saw that you're carrying a 9mm. That's simple enough to conceal. Why branish it in the open thus causing undue scrutiny.
I have never brandished it. One time a guy who was hunting on horseback came into our camp to say hi and I covered it with my shirt just so he wouldn't get creeped out. We had a nice visit and he moved on. So your saying I need a CCW to even have a handgun in the woods? The purpose of this thread is to make sure I don't do something I'm not supposed to do. Thanks.
Some attorney correct me but I think carrying in the open in violation of the law is considered brandishing.
Some attorney correct me but I think carrying in the open in violation of the law is considered brandishing.
Yep. It's considered brandishing or some similar offense in most jurisdictions I'm aware of. You don't have to wave the gun around to "brandish" it. Under some circumstances, it could also constitute a threat to commit a crime or do bodily injury as well.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 06:01 PM
I have never brandished it. One time a guy who was hunting on horseback came into our camp to say hi and I covered it with my shirt just so he wouldn't get creeped out. We had a nice visit and he moved on. So your saying I need a CCW to even have a handgun in the woods? The purpose of this thread is to make sure I don't do something I'm not supposed to do. Thanks.
Yes, that's what I'm telling you as an Arkansas STATE law enforcement officer.
RichJ
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
So what about having it in my pack unloaded and only taking it out to shoot? Do I still need a CCW?
So what about having it in my pack unloaded and only taking it out to shoot? Do I still need a CCW?
Yes. Without a doubt.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 07:17 PM
So what about having it in my pack unloaded and only taking it out to shoot? Do I still need a CCW?
You seem opposed to obtaining a concealed handgun license which makes me wonder if you are lawfully entitled to possess a firearm. Any felony or domestic abuse convictions? If you store an unloaded handgun in your pack then what good is it going to do you as a self-defense item to use against bears? Regardless, it's still a concealed handgun so having the licensed would be most adviseable.
RichJ
03-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Nope, I'm totally legal. My adversion to a CCW is that it basically amounts to a $244 "tax" to be able to legaly shoot a gun in the woods; that's all. It also seems like a pain in the butt to have to do.
RichJ
03-14-2009, 08:18 PM
Besides, lots of people carry pistols with them when they hunt, my dad always did. You telling me they are all a bunch of law breakers because they don't have carry permits? I honestly didn't think there was any violation on my part as long as it wasn't in the open around other people (in the woods that is). And as far as paying for a permit, it is flat wrong to make people pay for their Constitutional rights. Not everyone can afford the fees.
Well, technically, yeah. If they didn't have a permit and carried a gun and it was against the law then.....
What's the "tax" for getting caught carrying without a permit?
I had never been finger printed in my life and was pretty proud of that fact. I had managed to make it over 50 years without Uncle Sam having my pickies on file. But I did what I had to do to get my CCW.
If the fees are a problem then adjust your priorities and/or put a little away each payday....but then, you know that.
RichJ
03-14-2009, 10:53 PM
If the fees are a problem then adjust your priorities and/or put a little away each payday....but then, you know that.
Hey. Kiss my grits! It's the principle of the matter. Now that I know I've been a violator I can't take it with me next weekend. What'll you bet the chances of a bear sighting will be? :jango:
doug1980
03-14-2009, 11:10 PM
Hey. Kiss my grits! It's the principle of the matter. Now that I know I've been a violator I can't take it with me next weekend. What'll you bet the chances of a bear sighting will be? :jango:
Honestly if the real reason you want to carry is for bear protection then use the spray. A 9mm will do little more than if you shoot it with a BB gun. Many here, with experience, have told you what to do. I believe you just want to carry a firearm and are too hard headed to do it the right way. You asked what the rules were and were told, now it's up to you to decide if you are going to abide by them or not. Just be thankful that we as citizens still have a right to carry even if it has to be with a permit.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 11:20 PM
Nope, I'm totally legal. My adversion to a CCW is that it basically amounts to a $244 "tax" to be able to legaly shoot a gun in the woods; that's all. It also seems like a pain in the butt to have to do.
http://www.asp.state.ar.us/divisions/rs/rs_chl.html
How's it a pain in the butt to be a law abiding citizen? You sign up for the class, sit thru it, pay your dues, get fingerprinted, and you shoot. The prints are destoyed after the fact. They're only used to compare against others on file to make sure you're not -here it is again- convicted of any felonies or domestic offenses.
Technically the license doesn't allow you to fire the weapon, but rather you're allowed to carry it. If you were in say the Buffalo National River area which is ran by the National Park Service, and you happened to be packing your bear gun which you used to kill a bear they are still entitled to pursue what ever charges against you they deem necessary. Then again, by using officer discretion they could find that you used it in self-defense and not saying anything to you. The same applies in the WMA you mentioned. Just because you've got it doesn't mean you can use it which is funny if you think about it.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 11:22 PM
Honestly if the real reason you want to carry is for bear protection then use the spray. A 9mm will do little more than if you shoot it with a BB gun. Many here, with experience, have told you what to do. I believe you just want to carry a firearm and are too hard headed to do it the right way. You asked what the rules were and were told, now it's up to you to decide if you are going to abide by them or not. Just be thankful that we as citizens still have a right to carry even if it has to be with a permit.
LOL
Seriously that's what I thought. I think even with a black bear that you'd want something bigger. .454 maybe? lol
Arkansas_Ranger
03-14-2009, 11:28 PM
Besides, lots of people carry pistols with them when they hunt, my dad always did. You telling me they are all a bunch of law breakers because they don't have carry permits? I honestly didn't think there was any violation on my part as long as it wasn't in the open around other people (in the woods that is). And as far as paying for a permit, it is flat wrong to make people pay for their Constitutional rights. Not everyone can afford the fees.
Well, what if you're in the woods and someone just happens to walk by? It goes back to what I wrote in my first reply. If you don't get caught then it doesn't matter does it. If it's "flat wrong" to make people pay for their Constitutional rights then by all means contact your legislators.
Seriously, what's so wrong with letting your shirt tail hang out over the gun and getting your CHL. I did before I got into law enforcement. I don't need it now, but I'm going to renew it this year because it expires in a few months. Note, if you do conceal that weapon, and you're found to be in possession of it then your chances of getting in trouble are much greater.
doug1980
03-14-2009, 11:37 PM
LOL
Seriously that's what I thought. I think even with a black bear that you'd want something bigger. .454 maybe? lol
In my opinion a 9MM is barely good enough against people, gonna take more than a few rounds to stop a guy intent on doing harm I believe. But that's just me.
RichJ
03-15-2009, 12:03 AM
You didn't pay very much attention to what I wrote did you?
You said: "Honestly if the real reason you want to carry is for bear protection then use the spray. A 9mm will do little more than if you shoot it with a BB gun."
No, I didn't say I wanted to shoot it. I said scare it off by making a loud noise.
You said: "Many here, with experience, have told you what to do. I believe you just want to carry a firearm and are too hard headed to do it the right way."
No, I just like shooting and where I go is just about the only place I have to do it. And i only "carry" around my camp in the woods, if I really wanted to carry a firearm I would have already had a permit so I could take it to Wal Mart with me. As far as having experience; you're not talking to a teenager. Furthermore, the whole purpose of this thread was to make sure I was doing it the right way.
You said: "You asked what the rules were and were told, now it's up to you to decide if you are going to abide by them or not."
I already said that now that I know the specifics, I would not be taking it with me next time. That sounds like someone who want's to comply with the law doesn't it? I really don't like your tone anyway, and if your not going to pay closer attention to the previous posts then don't be so quick to poke sticks at people. I started this thread to make sure what I was doing was legal. Did you not get that?
doug1980
03-15-2009, 12:10 AM
You didn't pay very much attention to what I wrote did you?
You said: "Honestly if the real reason you want to carry is for bear protection then use the spray. A 9mm will do little more than if you shoot it with a BB gun."
No, I didn't say I wanted to shoot it. I said scare it off by making a loud noise.
You said: "Many here, with experience, have told you what to do. I believe you just want to carry a firearm and are too hard headed to do it the right way."
No, I just like shooting and where I go is just about the only place I have to do it. And i only "carry" around my camp in the woods, if I really wanted to carry a firearm I would have already had a permit so I could take it to Wal Mart with me. As far as having experience; you're not talking to a teenager. Furthermore, the whole purpose of this thread was to make sure I was doing it the right way.
You said: "You asked what the rules were and were told, now it's up to you to decide if you are going to abide by them or not."
I already said that now that I know the specifics, I would not be taking it with me next time. That sounds like someone who want's to comply with the law doesn't it? I really don't like your tone anyway, and if your not going to pay closer attention to the previous posts then don't be so quick to poke sticks at people. I started this thread to make sure what I was doing was legal. Did you not get that?
You are the one saying two different things here. First it was for bear protection, then it was just for shooting. I have paid attention and your story and reasoning keeps changing with every post. You asked the questions and when you get answers you seem to not be happy with them. So then you change your story. Oh and good luck with scaring a bear off with loud noise, I wouldn't put my faith into that reasoning.
RichJ
03-15-2009, 12:35 AM
We have little bitty black bears here in Arkansas and a loud noise is usually enought to chase them off; But they can get very aggressive when they have cubs and especially if you get between them and their young. I've known of people who have run off black bears by throwing rocks and yelling, surely a 9mm would do the trick.
I said it was for bear protection and that I liked to shoot, and I never implied "protection" meant shooting the bear. I think the included post demonstrates that. The reasoning is beside the point anyway; I asked a question and got the answer and stated I would change what i was doing because of it. Show me where I changed anything about my "story". There is no "story" only a question as to legality. And yes you can scare off a bear by yelling at one (see included post). Not a grizzly, or a brown bear, were talking a 200 lb. Ozark bear; big difference.
doug1980
03-15-2009, 12:38 AM
I said it was for bear protection and that I liked to shoot, and I never implied "protection" meant shooting the bear. I think the included post demonstrates that. The reasoning is beside the point anyway; I asked a question and got the answer and stated I would change what i was doing because of it. Show me where I changed anything about my "story". There is no "story" only a question as to legality. And yes you can scare off a bear by yelling at one (see included post). Not a grizzly, or a brown bear, were talking a 200 lb. Ozark bear; big difference.
LOL whatever man I ain't arguing with you. Hope it all works out for you.
RichJ
03-15-2009, 12:48 AM
LOL whatever man I ain't arguing with you. Hope it all works out for you.
Sure sounds like you're arguing to me? This threads mission was accomplished before you chimed in but thanks for moving along though.
Rich - Everyone has been trying to help you but you do seem to have moved around a bit on your position. At least that's the appearance. You've asked questions, we've tried to respond then you went off on Constitution rights and whatever. That's okay but the law is the law and if you want to do it correctly then you just do what it says. That simple. You now have the link to the law so read through it then contact you local law enforcement agency if you have additional questions. They should be able to answer any you have.
You might consider a shooting range if any are in your area. That would give you another place to shoot.
Arkansas_Ranger
03-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Wow, Rich. I listen to people change their stories everyday. Interestingly, from the one you've told I would've never gotten the impression that you were wanting to carry your 9mm so that you could fire it thus producing a loud noise to frigthen away black bears. Regardless of what your intent was. It's illegal!
I'm going to summarize what your current position is after having perused your many replies. You like to go hiking in camping in areas of Arkansas known to be inhabited by black bears. You have a 9mm handgun that you say you have a right to carry, and you're carrying it on your hiking and camping expeditions because, even though you like to shoot and claim to possess it for self-defense, your sole intent is to have it in your possession so that you may fire it to scare away bears probably hoping that no other hikers, campers, or nearby law enforcement officers hear the noise. You're not going to shoot the bears. Additionally, you carry it out in the open, but now say you won't do that anymore because you have now been properly informed. You admitted to having a horserider come upon you once while wearing the handgun openly visible, and you felt the need to cover your weapon so as not to offend or intimidate the rider which would lead one to believe that you already suspicioned that you lacked societal approval to carry your weapon openly despite claims that the Constitution gives you the right to do so. You protest getting a concealed handgun license anyway so you don't plan to ever carry your handgun anywhere else, such as Walmart, other than perhaps in your pack while unloaded while hiking and/or camping which is still unlawful, yet again you've stated that you won't carry it anymore because you know there could potentially be consequences.
You've been given some advice from some respectable people on here, and you've heard from me as a law enforcement officer of your state of residence exactly what you can and cannot do.
Here's one last link that may interest you particularly the section devoted to firearms in wildlife management areas.
http://www.agfc.com/rules-regulations/code-of-regulations.aspx
I guess the underlying theme that everyone is trying to relate here is that the law applies everywhere - even in the woods.
RichJ
03-15-2009, 04:35 PM
This is gettting kind of funny. If I have been ambiguous, please let me clarify. I have a gun and most of the time I have it with me in the woods for the following reasons.
1.) it's fun to shoot
2.) it offers protection from many things including bears
3.) my camp spot is one of the only places I have to shoot
4.) it's good practice for home defense
5.) my son feels safer in the woods when I have it
I'm sure I could list a few other reasons if i thought about it more but if you reread my posts you will see that most of these reasons are stated. I don't think I have changed positions, rather I bring my gun for all of these reasons. I just didn't state every reason in every post. But reguardless, you guys are calling me hardheaded when I have stated more than once that I understood the laws (now) and wouldn't be bringing it with me because I didn't want to break the law. You seem to disreguard that I have said that. Ranger: You seem certain that I'm not legal to carry. I assure you that I am. Now that I know there is no way I can have my gun in the woods, either in my pack or out of it, on my hip or in my hand, loaded or unloaded, there is no getting around it unless I have a CCW, fully understand that. Up to this point I have never wanted or needed to carry concealed either in the woods or anywhere else (like Wal Mart), I just want to be able to shoot my gun in the woods, therefore I have never pursued a concealed permit. It sounds to me like the CCW is more of a "have" permit; and if I want to "have" it anywhere but my house, I guess I'll have to think about getting one. I have no real aversions to getting one other than that it's a little expensive
and it seems on principle that you have to pay for something that is a basic Constitutional right. I might go ahead and get one. I might not.
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scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
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yellowcab
04-29-2026, 12:36 PM
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Kotc (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1311186)Анти (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1251263)Zone (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1549088)Вишн (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1382914)Zone (http://laborracket.ru/t/1549730)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1549567)Zone (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1549054)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1191399)Summ (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1246462)Некр (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1208298)Попо (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1355268)Zone (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1194551)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1192782)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1191062)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1192720)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1192823)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1194547)Влад (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1566211)Увле (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1224718)R2A4 (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1185853)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1187279)Zone (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1189842)Бонд (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1579914)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1188145)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1186084)book (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1247547)Roya (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161803)Wedg (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1164014)Card (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/434)моло (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590981)
yellowcab
04-29-2026, 12:37 PM
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днем (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/106790)Marc (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/142789)Gour (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571668)Лит* (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149249)Agat (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203189)сист (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150313)Anth (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580446)Лит* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582839)Лит* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684784)RETA (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684168)Лит* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/688999)Лит* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584210)вида (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689637)Edit (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1169054)Guid (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1169077)
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