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RichJ
03-08-2009, 02:21 AM
While responding to another thread about carrying gear and bugging out, I was thinking of the likelyhood of ever actually bugging out. I have a toddler and a soon-to-be-newborn, along with a very "indoors" kind of wife. So for us, it's going to take one heck of an emergency to make us leave our home. And even in that case, if we can't drive together, we pretty much can't go. Hiking/walking with a newborn and a toddler just aint gonna happen unless we are nuclear fallout refugees or something. But what is more likely is that when supplies get low, my wife stays with the young-un's while I leave to aquire food or whatever else. I may have to go out hunting for days or even weeks at a time and thereby utilize my super-supreme survival skills. But even though I know I'm gonn'a bug-in, I still have a BOB just in case. (I guess this is the real point I'm trying to get across) I actually have a bunch of different kits for different scenarios; like a keep-with-me-at-all-times kit that has knife, flashlight, lighter, mini compass, etc. Then I have a get-out'a-Dodge-quick kit that has water bottle, MRE's, first-aid, gun, and a few other things along with redundant keep-with-me-at-all-times kit items like extra knife, extra lighters, headlamp ect. Then I have my full-on-ultra-deluxe kit that has all before mentioned items plus tent, sleeping bag, extra ammo, water filter and a bunch of other stuff. Then there's my leave-in-the-truck kit and my at-the-office kit... Even though you might be the bug-in type, I guess it's good to always keep your options open and be prepared; Just in case.

Rick
03-08-2009, 10:52 AM
Rich, I think most of us fall into the same category. I'm a bug in kind of guy, too. But don't get lax and think only some catastrophic event would move you out of the house. Something as simple as a chemical spill or a neighbor's meth lab might be just the thing to do it. I've posted this before but for the newbies on the forum there are a LOT of SHTF scenarios to prepare for. You just need to consider which ones are most likely to occur and prepare for them FIRST. Then, as time and resources permit, expand your preparation plans. Of course, like real estate, it's all about location, location, location.

Biological Threat: A biological attack is the deliberate release of germs or other biological substances that can make you sick. Many agents must be inhaled, enter through a cut in the skin or be eaten to make you sick. Some biological agents, such as anthrax, do not cause contagious diseases. Others, like the smallpox virus, can result in diseases you can catch from other people.

Chemical Threat: A chemical attack is the deliberate release of a toxic gas, liquid or solid that can poison people and the environment.

Dam Failure: A dam failure or levee breach is a catastrophic event characterized by the sudden, rapid, and uncontrolled release of impounded water.

Earthquakes: An earthquake is the sudden, rapid shaking of the Earth, caused by the breaking and shifting of subterranean rock.

Explosion: A release of mechanical, chemical or nuclear energy in a sudden and often violent manner with the generation of high temperature and usually with the release of gases.

Extreme Heat: An extended period of high temperatures often accompanied by high humidity.

Fire: A state, process or instance of combustion in which fuel or other material is ignited and combined with oxygen, giving off light, heat, and flame.

Flood: Refers to the overflowing of normally dry areas, often after heavy rains. Flood is usually applied to the overflow of a great body of water, as, for example, a river, although it may refer to any water that overflows an area.

Hazardous Material: Any substance or mixture of substances having properties capable of producing adverse effects on the health and safety or the environment of a human being.

Hurricane: A severe tropical storm that forms in the southern Atlantic Ocean, Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, and in the eastern Pacific Ocean.

Influenza Pandemic: A pandemic is a global disease outbreak. An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza A virus emerges for which there is little or no known immunity in the human population and the virus begins to cause serious illness and then spreads easily person-to-person worldwide.

Landslide/Debris Flow: Landslides, also known as mudslides and debris flows, are the downward falling or sliding of a mass of soil, detritus or rock on or from a steep slope. They can be caused by a variety of factors including earthquakes, storms, and fires.

Nuclear Threat: An explosion with intense light and heat, a damaging pressure wave and widespread radioactive material that can contaminate the air, water and ground surfaces for miles around. An event typically recognized with an attack by a foreign power.




Nuclear Power
Plant Emergency: An accident comprised by the release of radioactive material from the plant into the environment, usually characterized by a plume (cloud-like formation) of radioactive gases and particles. The major hazards to people in the vicinity of the plume are radiation exposure to the body from the cloud and particles deposited on the ground, inhalation of radioactive materials, and ingestion of radioactive materials.

There are two “emergency planning zones” in the event of an accident. One zone covers an area within a 10-mile radius of the plant, where it is possible that people could be harmed by direct radiation exposure. The second zone covers a broader area, usually up to a 50-mile radius from the plant, where radioactive materials could contaminate water supplies, food crops, and livestock.

Radiation Threat: A radiation threat, commonly referred to as a "dirty bomb" or "radiological dispersion device (RDD)", is the use of common explosives to spread radioactive materials over a targeted area. It is not a nuclear blast. The force of the explosion and radioactive contamination will be more localized.

Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Thunderstorm: A transient storm of lightning and thunder, usually with rain and gusty winds, sometimes with hail or snow, produced by cumulonimbus clouds.

Tornado: A localized, violently destructive windstorm occurring over land, esp. in the Mid-West, and characterized by a long, funnel-shaped cloud extending toward the ground and made visible by condensation and debris.

Tsunami: Tsunamis, also known as seismic sea waves, are enormous waves caused by an underground disturbance such as an earthquake or volcanic eruption. They can move hundreds of miles per hour and hit land with waves topping 100 feet in height.

Volcano: A vent in the earth's crust through which lava, steam, ashes, etc., are expelled, either continuously or at irregular intervals.

Wildfire: Any large fire that spreads rapidly and is hard to extinguish.

Winter Storm or
Extreme Cold: a severe winter condition characterized by low temperatures, strong winds, and heavy blowing snow.

RunsWithDeer
03-08-2009, 11:23 AM
I fall in the bug-in category too. But, my farm is 8 miles due east from Cook nuclear plant in Bridgeman, MI. We have never had any issues with the plant, but we are prepared to evacuate if ever needed. We have a vacation place in Northern MI that is kept stocked for use as an evacuation site, and keep a BOB ready for the family. Had a reminder yesterday of the risk of being this close to a nuke plant, they did the 1st Saturday of the month testing of the siren system. When I hear it, I always stop and think, where is the family, and is our BOB ready to go?

MatthewnOK
03-08-2009, 11:42 AM
Rich, I think most of us fall into the same category. I'm a bug in kind of guy, too. But don't get lax and think only some catastrophic event would move you out of the house. Something as simple as a chemical spill or a neighbor's meth lab might be just the thing to do it. I've posted this before but for the newbies on the forum there are a LOT of SHTF scenarios to prepare for. You just need to consider which ones are most likely to occur and prepare for them FIRST. Then, as time and resources permit, expand your preparation plans. Of course, like real estate, it's all about location, location, location.

Biological Threat: A biological attack is the deliberate release of germs or other biological substances that can make you sick. Many agents must be inhaled, enter through a cut in the skin or be eaten to make you sick. Some biological agents, such as anthrax, do not cause contagious diseases. Others, like the smallpox virus, can result in diseases you can catch from other people.

Chemical Threat: A chemical attack is the deliberate release of a toxic gas, liquid or solid that can poison people and the environment.

Dam Failure: A dam failure or levee breach is a catastrophic event characterized by the sudden, rapid, and uncontrolled release of impounded water.

Earthquakes: An earthquake is the sudden, rapid shaking of the Earth, caused by the breaking and shifting of subterranean rock.

Explosion: A release of mechanical, chemical or nuclear energy in a sudden and often violent manner with the generation of high temperature and usually with the release of gases.

Extreme Heat: An extended period of high temperatures often accompanied by high humidity.

Fire: A state, process or instance of combustion in which fuel or other material is ignited and combined with oxygen, giving off light, heat, and flame.

Flood: Refers to the overflowing of normally dry areas, often after heavy rains. Flood is usually applied to the overflow of a great body of water, as, for example, a river, although it may refer to any water that overflows an area.

Hazardous Material: Any substance or mixture of substances having properties capable of producing adverse effects on the health and safety or the environment of a human being.

Hurricane: A severe tropical storm that forms in the southern Atlantic Ocean, Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, and in the eastern Pacific Ocean.

Influenza Pandemic: A pandemic is a global disease outbreak. An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza A virus emerges for which there is little or no known immunity in the human population and the virus begins to cause serious illness and then spreads easily person-to-person worldwide.

Landslide/Debris Flow: Landslides, also known as mudslides and debris flows, are the downward falling or sliding of a mass of soil, detritus or rock on or from a steep slope. They can be caused by a variety of factors including earthquakes, storms, and fires.

Nuclear Threat: An explosion with intense light and heat, a damaging pressure wave and widespread radioactive material that can contaminate the air, water and ground surfaces for miles around. An event typically recognized with an attack by a foreign power.




Nuclear Power
Plant Emergency: An accident comprised by the release of radioactive material from the plant into the environment, usually characterized by a plume (cloud-like formation) of radioactive gases and particles. The major hazards to people in the vicinity of the plume are radiation exposure to the body from the cloud and particles deposited on the ground, inhalation of radioactive materials, and ingestion of radioactive materials.

There are two emergency planning zones in the event of an accident. One zone covers an area within a 10-mile radius of the plant, where it is possible that people could be harmed by direct radiation exposure. The second zone covers a broader area, usually up to a 50-mile radius from the plant, where radioactive materials could contaminate water supplies, food crops, and livestock.

Radiation Threat: A radiation threat, commonly referred to as a "dirty bomb" or "radiological dispersion device (RDD)", is the use of common explosives to spread radioactive materials over a targeted area. It is not a nuclear blast. The force of the explosion and radioactive contamination will be more localized.

Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Thunderstorm: A transient storm of lightning and thunder, usually with rain and gusty winds, sometimes with hail or snow, produced by cumulonimbus clouds.

Tornado: A localized, violently destructive windstorm occurring over land, esp. in the Mid-West, and characterized by a long, funnel-shaped cloud extending toward the ground and made visible by condensation and debris.

Tsunami: Tsunamis, also known as seismic sea waves, are enormous waves caused by an underground disturbance such as an earthquake or volcanic eruption. They can move hundreds of miles per hour and hit land with waves topping 100 feet in height.

Volcano: A vent in the earth's crust through which lava, steam, ashes, etc., are expelled, either continuously or at irregular intervals.

Wildfire: Any large fire that spreads rapidly and is hard to extinguish.

Winter Storm or
Extreme Cold: a severe winter condition characterized by low temperatures, strong winds, and heavy blowing snow.

That's a fairly complete list, however; you left out zombie invasions :alien::cold:

RichJ
03-08-2009, 12:26 PM
I've been at this a while.

You had said, "But don't get lax and think only some catastrophic event would move you out of the house."

Right. That's why I keep six or seven different kits on hand for different things that might happen. I should have said ...to make me VOLUNTARILY leave my house. Being forced out from an approaching chemical cloud is different.

SARKY
03-08-2009, 12:49 PM
What I did is simply make my kit modular. The lowliest part of my kit is a survival pouch that fits into a BDU cargo pocket. Then move up to my E&E kit, next is my BOB, Car BOB, then it moves into BIBs (I have 2 out buildings so either one can be used if the house is destroyed), the largest BIB (Bug In Bag) being my home. Iy really is just common sense to do this. As much as I like and prefer being in the woods, I have way too much gear and supplies to carry on my back if I want to take it all with me.

Nativedude
03-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Rick wrote: "Rich, I think most of us fall into the same category. I'm a bug in kind of guy, too. But don't get lax and think only some catastrophic event would move you out of the house. Something as simple as a chemical spill or a neighbor's meth lab might be just the thing to do it. I've posted this before but for the newbies on the forum there are a LOT of SHTF scenarios to prepare for. You just need to consider which ones are most likely to occur and prepare for them FIRST. Then, as time and resources permit, expand your preparation plans. Of course, like real estate, it's all about location, location, location.

Biological Threat: A biological attack is the deliberate release of germs or other biological substances that can make you sick. Many agents must be inhaled, enter through a cut in the skin or be eaten to make you sick. Some biological agents, such as anthrax, do not cause contagious diseases. Others, like the smallpox virus, can result in diseases you can catch from other people.

Chemical Threat: A chemical attack is the deliberate release of a toxic gas, liquid or solid that can poison people and the environment.

Dam Failure: A dam failure or levee breach is a catastrophic event characterized by the sudden, rapid, and uncontrolled release of impounded water.

Earthquakes: An earthquake is the sudden, rapid shaking of the Earth, caused by the breaking and shifting of subterranean rock.

Explosion: A release of mechanical, chemical or nuclear energy in a sudden and often violent manner with the generation of high temperature and usually with the release of gases.

Extreme Heat: An extended period of high temperatures often accompanied by high humidity.

Fire: A state, process or instance of combustion in which fuel or other material is ignited and combined with oxygen, giving off light, heat, and flame.

Flood: Refers to the overflowing of normally dry areas, often after heavy rains. Flood is usually applied to the overflow of a great body of water, as, for example, a river, although it may refer to any water that overflows an area.

Hazardous Material: Any substance or mixture of substances having properties capable of producing adverse effects on the health and safety or the environment of a human being.

Hurricane: A severe tropical storm that forms in the southern Atlantic Ocean, Caribbean Sea, Gulf of Mexico, and in the eastern Pacific Ocean.

Influenza Pandemic: A pandemic is a global disease outbreak. An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza A virus emerges for which there is little or no known immunity in the human population and the virus begins to cause serious illness and then spreads easily person-to-person worldwide.

Landslide/Debris Flow: Landslides, also known as mudslides and debris flows, are the downward falling or sliding of a mass of soil, detritus or rock on or from a steep slope. They can be caused by a variety of factors including earthquakes, storms, and fires.

Nuclear Threat: An explosion with intense light and heat, a damaging pressure wave and widespread radioactive material that can contaminate the air, water and ground surfaces for miles around. An event typically recognized with an attack by a foreign power.




Nuclear Power
Plant Emergency: An accident comprised by the release of radioactive material from the plant into the environment, usually characterized by a plume (cloud-like formation) of radioactive gases and particles. The major hazards to people in the vicinity of the plume are radiation exposure to the body from the cloud and particles deposited on the ground, inhalation of radioactive materials, and ingestion of radioactive materials.

There are two emergency planning zones in the event of an accident. One zone covers an area within a 10-mile radius of the plant, where it is possible that people could be harmed by direct radiation exposure. The second zone covers a broader area, usually up to a 50-mile radius from the plant, where radioactive materials could contaminate water supplies, food crops, and livestock.

Radiation Threat: A radiation threat, commonly referred to as a "dirty bomb" or "radiological dispersion device (RDD)", is the use of common explosives to spread radioactive materials over a targeted area. It is not a nuclear blast. The force of the explosion and radioactive contamination will be more localized.

Terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Thunderstorm: A transient storm of lightning and thunder, usually with rain and gusty winds, sometimes with hail or snow, produced by cumulonimbus clouds.

Tornado: A localized, violently destructive windstorm occurring over land, esp. in the Mid-West, and characterized by a long, funnel-shaped cloud extending toward the ground and made visible by condensation and debris.

Tsunami: Tsunamis, also known as seismic sea waves, are enormous waves caused by an underground disturbance such as an earthquake or volcanic eruption. They can move hundreds of miles per hour and hit land with waves topping 100 feet in height.

Volcano: A vent in the earth's crust through which lava, steam, ashes, etc., are expelled, either continuously or at irregular intervals.

Wildfire: Any large fire that spreads rapidly and is hard to extinguish.

Winter Storm or
Extreme Cold: a severe winter condition characterized by low temperatures, strong winds, and heavy blowing snow.

Rick, I couldn't have said it any better myself! :thumbup1: :thumbup: :thumbup1:

For all of the "bug-in" people, look at Hurricane Katrina or the CA mudslides and wildfires. "Bugging-out" was there only choice.

Rick
03-08-2009, 04:36 PM
How did I forget Zombies? Sheeeeesh!

Nuclear energy plants are an often forgotten risk. Illinois has no less than 11 such plants and since the prevailing winds are generally west to east those of us in Indiana face a possible risk as well. While I salute nuclear energy utilities and their safety record we need to remember that many of these sites are 20+ years old and it only takes one accident. Here's a high resolution map of all the plants in the US.

http://www.nei.org/resourcesandstats/documentlibrary/reliableandaffordableenergy/graphicsandcharts/usnuclearcountrywidemaphigh/

Ole WV Coot
03-08-2009, 08:41 PM
Gee Rick, THANKS !! Now I can sleep better knowing I don't have anything to worry about. I appreciate the reminder.

Norse&Native
03-09-2009, 03:05 AM
I'm thinking nobody really knows until something happens. If the only safe place for you and your family is out in the woods, and the only way to get there is on foot, I bet the bank that you're going to figure out a way to get them there lickity-damn-split.

catfish10101
03-09-2009, 04:03 AM
Don't forget a bacon shortage, that'll hurt some of us pretty bad!!!

Rick
03-09-2009, 12:54 PM
I thought any shortage of spam, bacon, coffee or twinkies was just a given.

Lickety-damn-split? I'm way too old to move that quick. It's just Lickety for me anymore. An occasional damn works, too.

hoosierarcher
03-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Hiking/walking with a newborn and a toddler just aint gonna happen unless we are nuclear fallout refugees or something.
Here is one way with dealing with this.Get yourself one of those good big wagons with the large pneumatic tires. Make the front half of the carriage box a bed for the infant make the middle storage for gear and the back into a seat for the toddler. Get one of those harnesses with leases you see women using at the mall with their toddlers and attach the loose end to the wagaon so that if you have to stop briefly the toddler can not wonder off. Make yourself a harness that allows you to have a quick release attachment to the wagon at your waist so that you can pull it hands free but be able to detach yourself as quickly as possible for emergencies.

crashdive123
03-09-2009, 05:39 PM
Kind of like a Conestoga wagon for kids.

LowKey
03-09-2009, 07:46 PM
Those little red wagons with big tires are great. After you beef up the hardware a bit...
When I wiped out my back, I used one to haul my fishing gear down the beach road (Ken, do you know the Stage Harbor Light road?). After the first trip though, I painted it sand brown to avoid the stares. Don't need it any more but it does duty around the yard now, mostly bringing in firewood.

RichJ, is your wife ready to be on her own for days on end while you are getting food? Just curious. I don't have a wife, but many of the women I've known have been the wilt-at-sight-of-gun type.
Which is probably why I don't have a wife.......

shankfisher
03-09-2009, 09:32 PM
Get yourself one of those good big wagons with the large pneumatic tires . . .

Excellent idea.

MatthewnOK
03-09-2009, 09:56 PM
You could consider the children emergency rations. Ever heard of "baby fat" :tongue_smilie::drool: (I'll go crawl back into my demented hidey hole now...):blushing:

RichJ
03-09-2009, 10:11 PM
You could consider the children emergency rations. Ever heard of "baby fat" :tongue_smilie::drool: (I'll go crawl back into my demented hidey hole now...):blushing:
man, that's bad.

SARKY
03-10-2009, 01:02 AM
Have you thought about those jogging carriages? If you have 1 kid get a 2 seater so you can put your gear in the 2nd seat. They have large diameter tires which makes it easy to drag over debris, they are light weight and fold flat for storage. you can't do that with a little red wagon!

MatthewnOK
03-10-2009, 10:59 AM
My aunt an uncle have a two seater all terrain baby buggy that folds into a really small package. I'll see if i can get the name for you if you'd like.

RichJ
03-10-2009, 11:23 AM
I actually have one of those wagons that belongs/ed to one of my older boys. It has the big tires and wooden side rails. I wonder if you could mod some bicycle tires to it and remove the stick handle for a shoulder harness?

Rick
03-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Frankly, before I invested time and resources into purchasing or modifying a wagon I would invest in fire alarms, CO2 monitors, fire extinguishers, and devising an evacuation plan in case of fire. Those items are for more likely to impact you than anything requiring a wagon. Just a thought.

crashdive123
03-10-2009, 12:27 PM
If you need to leave in a hurry though....

http://www.nationaltrailraceway.net/images/redwagon_nite1.jpg

RichJ
03-10-2009, 01:54 PM
My fire preps are covered. I have to do something in my free time so why not build a bug-out-wagon? I've got to think about my little troopers you know. I could put NRA and This Wagon Protected by Smith & Wesson stickers on it. Sounds like a fun project already.

hoosierarcher
03-10-2009, 06:42 PM
Frankly, before I invested time and resources into purchasing or modifying a wagon I would invest in fire alarms, CO2 monitors, fire extinguishers, and devising an evacuation plan in case of fire. Those items are for more likely to impact you than anything requiring a wagon. Just a thought.

Truthfully I was basing the wagon and mods on all that already being done. This is for bugging out on foot or on foot once the vehicle runs out of fuel.
Because of where I live I will be hunkering down and killing a few neighbors for food. (J/K):tongue_smilie:

Rick
03-10-2009, 09:03 PM
(checks location carefully). Okey Dokey, then.

crashdive123
03-11-2009, 09:47 PM
For those thinking about the wagon thing - it looks as though your idea is catching on. I had a few stops near the beach today. You will notice that the wagon is camouflaged very well – you almost can’t see it.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Out%20And%20About/IMG_0325.jpg

Rick
03-11-2009, 09:53 PM
I've got one like this. It's rated for something like 1400 pounds. You should try pulling this thing across a yard with about 400 pounds in it. You'll be lucky if you don't pull both arms off. I can't imagine trying to use one as a bug out tool on anything except hard road.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512NYT705HL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

crashdive123
03-11-2009, 09:55 PM
Oh, neither can I. I just thought it was rather funny seeing it after last night conversation.

LowKey
03-11-2009, 11:17 PM
Yeek, I looked at yard wagons when I needed a gear hauler. Tooo heavy. Even the ABS plastic ones. That little Radio Flyer though you can pick up with one arm and once you beef up the bolts and lengthen the handle arm it works fine even in deep dry sand.
Though I do like the "camoflage" in front of that one better... ;)

rebel
03-11-2009, 11:34 PM
I've got one like this. It's rated for something like 1400 pounds. You should try pulling this thing across a yard with about 400 pounds in it. You'll be lucky if you don't pull both arms off. I can't imagine trying to use one as a bug out tool on anything except hard road.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512NYT705HL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

I used one like that to haul camping gear for half a mile to a boat for some island camping. Several trips later...I was tired. It beat carrying coolers full of ice. One thing I noticed was how tippy they were. The wheels are narrow and it doesn't take much to turn it over.

I was thinking about one of those deer haulers with the bicycle tires. Does anyone have any experience with these? The bigger wheels would push or pull easier.

Aurelius95
03-13-2009, 09:15 PM
What you need is to modify that machine at Target or Wal-Mart that pushes all the carts back to the store. What if you could modify that with some larger wheels. That'd push your bug out wagon.

http://www.lindbergh.com/

Rick
03-13-2009, 09:18 PM
I'm sure glad you posted a link. I thought you were talking about this:

http://www.moneymachines.com/showhorse.jpg

crashdive123
03-13-2009, 09:24 PM
Giddy up!!

Rick
03-13-2009, 09:35 PM
Giddy up, a oom papa oom papa mow mow,

Hi-yo silver away

crashdive123
03-13-2009, 09:39 PM
http://www.boxcarwilliehotel.com/images/Oak%20Ridge%20Boys%20&%20Bus.jpg

Rick
03-13-2009, 09:45 PM
Where'd you get that? Chris, Sarge, Crash and Your's truly. We normally hold hands when we skip but we tried something a bit different.

Nativedude
03-13-2009, 11:47 PM
RichJ wrote:". . .I was thinking of the likelihood of ever actually bugging out. I have a toddler and a soon-to-be-newborn, along with a very "indoors" kind of wife. . ."

Rich, how do you think the Indians did it when they needed to "bug out", and believe me, there were plenty of times when they had to!? The women had cradle boards so that the baby or babies could travel on their backs or be strapped to a horse or to a travois. There are many options.

As far as the "very indoors kind of wife", I guess she better learn to be an outdoors kind of wife QUICKLY. Because if you ever HAVE TO bug out, she better be prepared or. . .???

RichJ
03-14-2009, 01:20 AM
As far as the "very indoors kind of wife", I guess she better learn to be an outdoors kind of wife QUICKLY. Because if you ever HAVE TO bug out, she better be prepared or. . .???

My wife has chronic asthma. She takes three medicines a day and she has to get an allergy shot weekly to control it. Hospital visits are common and she's undergone two surgeries for collapsed lungs since we've been married.
My wife wouldn't last a week in the woods, the pollen alone would kill her. If it wasn't for modern medicine she would have probably died years ago. So Buggin out really ain't her thing.

Nativedude
03-14-2009, 02:08 AM
RichJ wrote: "My wife has chronic asthma. She takes three medicines a day and she has to get an allergy shot weekly to control it. Hospital visits are common and she's undergone two surgeries for collapsed lungs since we've been married.
My wife wouldn't last a week in the woods, the pollen alone would kill her. If it wasn't for modern medicine she would have probably died years ago. So Buggin out really ain't her thing."

Rich, Sorry to hear she's had to go through all of that.

If you ever did have to bug out, I would suggest that you get her a Haz-Mat self-containment suit with the built-in oxygen respirator. Would be good to have for all the members of the family in case of a chemical or biological attack as well.

Ken
03-14-2009, 02:21 AM
My wife has chronic asthma. She takes three medicines a day and she has to get an allergy shot weekly to control it. Hospital visits are common and she's undergone two surgeries for collapsed lungs since we've been married.
My wife wouldn't last a week in the woods, the pollen alone would kill her. If it wasn't for modern medicine she would have probably died years ago. So Buggin out really ain't her thing.

Rich, has your wife been tested for an IgG2 deficiency? My youngest suffered from this condition from ages 2 to 6, and had several of the same symptoms as your wife. Several members of his mom's family have it as well. He had bi-weekly transfusions and fortunately overcame it almost 15 years ago; for the others, it never goes away.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/136897-overview

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Wood (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/140003)Emil (http://gascautery.ru/t/291976)Zofk (http://gashbucket.ru/t/132410)Бала (http://gasreturn.ru/t/421301)Hans (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/489075)Нови (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/673972)Швыр (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/668927)Mary (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/448312)цвет (http://geartreating.ru/t/566680)Лиса (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/319664)Tesc (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/469902)1с67 (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558754)Choc (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/138443)Band (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138464)Rene (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137621)
XVII (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/478747)Herg (http://habituate.ru/t/623630)Lafa (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/196369)Геке (http://hackworker.ru/t/480592)ЗН-9 (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/573875)Para (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/552652)Mava (http://hailsquall.ru/t/139279)Усен (http://hairysphere.ru/t/196933)Кита (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/560463)серт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561514)Kari (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/343826)Free (http://haltstate.ru/t/356223)Roma (http://handcoding.ru/t/530822)Jame (http://handportedhead.ru/t/638277)Лерн (http://handradar.ru/t/512030)
Aloe (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/137375)Rich (http://hangonpart.ru/t/65182)разн (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/265809)Math (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/167870)Мище (http://hardasiron.ru/t/252884)Wend (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/320521)Пети (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/279515)Stor (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/140529)Turn (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/169690)Серж (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/195142)dark (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/155516)Поли (http://headregulator.ru/t/155774)крок (http://heartofgold.ru/t/158506)Core (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/175455)убий (http://heatinggas.ru/t/294786)
Иллю (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/303149)увед (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/266491)Menn (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/302776)blac (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/601542)Niki (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/602423)thes (http://jobstress.ru/t/602388)Symp (http://jogformation.ru/t/552014)Rudo (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/548749)Disc (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/539993)Disn (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140778)Зиме (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/376626)Наум (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/293682)Bert (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/302812)Мирк (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/302059)пост (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/285400)
Walt (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/293838)Алек (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/298443)куль (http://kentishglory.ru/t/297551)Barb (http://kerbweight.ru/t/187112)Rich (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/306338)Калу (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/195867)Mick (http://keyserum.ru/t/187129)*осс (http://kickplate.ru/t/157042)чист (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/603584)Anne (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/354544)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/607932)тайн (http://kinozones.ru/film/3780)меня (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/603656)Kaki (http://kneejoint.ru/t/434096)*азм (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/449256)
Панф (http://knockonatom.ru/t/271495)меня (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/603546)Swar (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/157127)авто (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/677944)чист (http://laborracket.ru/t/157207)кара (http://labourearnings.ru/t/157842)Mary (http://labourleasing.ru/t/262164)Take (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/336661)Воло (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/299497)Елин (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/373429)возр (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/492360)поки (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/226228)Magd (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/70263)Bran (http://laggingload.ru/t/170973)Anit (http://laissezaller.ru/t/263633)
Петр (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/68481)Raqu (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/166672)Крюк (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/244722)Will (http://lamphouse.ru/t/292987)озву (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/174739)Robe (http://lancingdie.ru/t/69028)Dere (http://landingdoor.ru/t/175408)Fran (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/197680)Anto (http://landreform.ru/t/295340)Корз (http://landuseratio.ru/t/196273)ЛЛКо (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/297548)камн (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160804)амшг (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589441)меся (http://laserlens.ru)упор (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590212)

yellowcab
11-11-2025, 05:24 AM
Micr (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178708)Zanu (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453229)Zanu (http://layabout.ru/shop/452032)Медв (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/166518)Cine (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105510)Жори (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/459833)Крас (http://leaveword.ru/shop/459904)*осс (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/166858)Lady (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/445766)друз (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/194205)Expe (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/166775)0108 (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269517)STAR (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/160132)GRAN (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159856)ARAG (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613638)
*осс (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598149)сенс (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2298)folk (http://mp3lists.ru/item/3252)Vali (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/569159)Winx (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104778)Jose (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460864)инди (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/486698)изоб (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/167287)бата (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100957)серф (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454680)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167455)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185690)Mist (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446631)Iwak (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108670)Dyso (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10002)
Bosc (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98448)Salv (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570078)Roya (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571714)XIII (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148073)This (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200817)Андр (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147978)qбда (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578500)Saka (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580385)Лит* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682784)Норр (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/681091)Mike (http://palmberry.ru/shop/378739)Лит* (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581919)Exce (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/687769)дире (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167084)Крыл (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167147)
Грек (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166162)XVII (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168948)*ихт (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539050)Иллю (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/412143)изве (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594072)теат (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595846)Аник (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1070050)полу (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1072457)Spar (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/226438)Jing (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/494784)Lord (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/513836)Slow (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/511906)теат (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/844228)(эст (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1077611)Пала (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/317759)
Raph (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/512476)(Озв (http://rearchain.ru/shop/640794)Карр (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/515722)Тока (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/879763)Wind (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1053356)Offi (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1061817)Смир (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1678402)Моск (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692955)вузо (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1758511)Некр (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121932)Ghia (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1813841)Divi (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1053377)авто (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1065984)Окол (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1431790)авто (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1461753)
Sonj (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1487380)Нефе (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1461762)Болд (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493380)Боко (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1296038)спец (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/270833)DVD- (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1480346)Моро (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/304120)Люто (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/398966)Бесе (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/399898)стар (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/460431)меся (http://spicetrade.ru)меся (http://spysale.ru)меся (http://stungun.ru)Thre (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482247)авто (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/489640)
мале (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/497412)*ок- (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/482497)Walk (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/486208)This (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/498404)Glob (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1820960)реда (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1876431)Memo (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/646799)Корч (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/327587)Иллю (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/399879)Trav (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/979492)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Mich (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/979846)Fuse (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/482685)

yellowcab
01-24-2026, 08:54 PM
audiobookkeeper (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)cottagenet (http://cottagenet.ru)eyesvision (http://eyesvision.ru)eyesvisions (http://eyesvisions.com)factoringfee (http://factoringfee.ru)filmzones (http://filmzones.ru)gadwall (http://gadwall.ru)gaffertape (http://gaffertape.ru)gageboard (http://gageboard.ru)gagrule (http://gagrule.ru)gallduct (http://gallduct.ru)galvanometric (http://galvanometric.ru)gangforeman (http://gangforeman.ru)gangwayplatform (http://gangwayplatform.ru)garbagechute (http://garbagechute.ru)
gardeningleave (http://gardeningleave.ru)gascautery (http://gascautery.ru)gashbucket (http://gashbucket.ru)gasreturn (http://gasreturn.ru)gatedsweep (http://gatedsweep.ru)gaugemodel (http://gaugemodel.ru)gaussianfilter (http://gaussianfilter.ru)gearpitchdiameter (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)geartreating (http://geartreating.ru)generalizedanalysis (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)generalprovisions (http://generalprovisions.ru)geophysicalprobe (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)geriatricnurse (http://geriatricnurse.ru)getintoaflap (http://getintoaflap.ru)getthebounce (http://getthebounce.ru)
habeascorpus (http://habeascorpus.ru)habituate (http://habituate.ru)hackedbolt (http://hackedbolt.ru)hackworker (http://hackworker.ru)hadronicannihilation (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)haemagglutinin (http://haemagglutinin.ru)hailsquall (http://hailsquall.ru)hairysphere (http://hairysphere.ru)halforderfringe (http://halforderfringe.ru)halfsiblings (http://halfsiblings.ru)hallofresidence (http://hallofresidence.ru)haltstate (http://haltstate.ru)handcoding (http://handcoding.ru)handportedhead (http://handportedhead.ru)handradar (http://handradar.ru)
handsfreetelephone (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)hangonpart (http://hangonpart.ru)haphazardwinding (http://haphazardwinding.ru)hardalloyteeth (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)hardasiron (http://hardasiron.ru)hardenedconcrete (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)harmonicinteraction (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)hartlaubgoose (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)hatchholddown (http://hatchholddown.ru)haveafinetime (http://haveafinetime.ru)hazardousatmosphere (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)headregulator (http://headregulator.ru)heartofgold (http://heartofgold.ru)heatageingresistance (http://heatageingresistance.ru)heatinggas (http://heatinggas.ru)
heavydutymetalcutting (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)jacketedwall (http://jacketedwall.ru)japanesecedar (http://japanesecedar.ru)jibtypecrane (http://jibtypecrane.ru)jobabandonment (http://jobabandonment.ru)jobstress (http://jobstress.ru)jogformation (http://jogformation.ru)jointcapsule (http://jointcapsule.ru)jointsealingmaterial (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)journallubricator (http://journallubricator.ru)juicecatcher (http://juicecatcher.ru)junctionofchannels (http://junctionofchannels.ru)justiciablehomicide (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)juxtapositiontwin (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)kaposidisease (http://kaposidisease.ru)
keepagoodoffing (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)keepsmthinhand (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)kentishglory (http://kentishglory.ru)kerbweight (http://kerbweight.ru)kerrrotation (http://kerrrotation.ru)keymanassurance (http://keymanassurance.ru)keyserum (http://keyserum.ru)kickplate (http://kickplate.ru)killthefattedcalf (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)kilowattsecond (http://kilowattsecond.ru)kingweakfish (http://kingweakfish.ru)kinozones (http://kinozones.ru)kleinbottle (http://kleinbottle.ru)kneejoint (http://kneejoint.ru)knifesethouse (http://knifesethouse.ru)
knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
lambdatransition (http://lambdatransition.ru)laminatedmaterial (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)lammasshoot (http://lammasshoot.ru)lamphouse (http://lamphouse.ru)lancecorporal (http://lancecorporal.ru)lancingdie (http://lancingdie.ru)landingdoor (http://landingdoor.ru)landmarksensor (http://landmarksensor.ru)landreform (http://landreform.ru)landuseratio (http://landuseratio.ru)languagelaboratory (http://languagelaboratory.ru)largeheart (http://largeheart.ru)lasercalibration (http://lasercalibration.ru)laserlens (http://laserlens.ru)laserpulse (http://laserpulse.ru)

yellowcab
01-24-2026, 08:56 PM
laterevent (http://laterevent.ru)latrinesergeant (http://latrinesergeant.ru)layabout (http://layabout.ru)leadcoating (http://leadcoating.ru)leadingfirm (http://leadingfirm.ru)learningcurve (http://learningcurve.ru)leaveword (http://leaveword.ru)machinesensible (http://machinesensible.ru)magneticequator (http://magneticequator.ru)magnetotelluricfield (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)mailinghouse (http://mailinghouse.ru)majorconcern (http://majorconcern.ru)mammasdarling (http://mammasdarling.ru)managerialstaff (http://managerialstaff.ru)manipulatinghand (http://manipulatinghand.ru)
manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
obstructivepatent (http://obstructivepatent.ru)oceanmining (http://oceanmining.ru)octupolephonon (http://octupolephonon.ru)offlinesystem (http://offlinesystem.ru)offsetholder (http://offsetholder.ru)olibanumresinoid (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)onesticket (http://onesticket.ru)packedspheres (http://packedspheres.ru)pagingterminal (http://pagingterminal.ru)palatinebones (http://palatinebones.ru)palmberry (http://palmberry.ru)papercoating (http://papercoating.ru)paraconvexgroup (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)parasolmonoplane (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)parkingbrake (http://parkingbrake.ru)
partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
readingmagnifier (http://readingmagnifier.ru)rearchain (http://rearchain.ru)recessioncone (http://recessioncone.ru)recordedassignment (http://recordedassignment.ru)rectifiersubstation (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab
04-29-2026, 09:39 AM
откр (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1411)345 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/455)PERF (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1920-01)Соде (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1241885)Иллю (http://filmzones.ru/t/1067672)Андр (http://gadwall.ru/t/1208768)Easy (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1103415)Амер (http://gageboard.ru/t/1096235)Jewe (http://gagrule.ru/t/1025279)орна (http://gallduct.ru/t/1163790)Севе (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1379462)Hara (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1408788)чело (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1698387)Гайд (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1328696)
Henr (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1082146)Монт (http://gascautery.ru/t/1221401)Павл (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1240933)мног (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1229223)Быст (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1230794)авто (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1245598)Beve (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1569073)Овчи (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1241105)Binh (http://geartreating.ru/t/1169672)Sona (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1130820)Giul (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1311957)Jewe (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1137537)отде (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1386702)вузо (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1240030)Учас (http://getthebounce.ru/t/856968)
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yellowcab
04-29-2026, 09:40 AM
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