Pot, your thoughts?

[BicycleRider]

Where I come from smoking pot is common thing, Its been said that there is more pot in Thunder Bay, ON then the infamous pot smoking capital Vancouver, BC. I would not doubt that for a second, I even have on some occasions smoked pot with my highschool teachers. Theres not many people who don't do it, including the older crowd. My good friends' father who spent 8 years in B.C. actually said that the pot here is just as good if not better (his words not mine) and hes a veteran smoker. So it was always kind of hard for me not to do it since I was constantly around it. What are your thoughts on pot? How often do you settle in and have a nice relaxing toke?

For the haters, I'm a hardworker, ambitious, adventurous. Same with the people I hang around with. It affects people in differen't ways.

[Dennis K.]

Welcome to the forum - how 'bout you head over to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself?

[Ken]

What are your thoughts on pot? How often do you settle in and have a nice relaxing toke?

Hmmmm. Interesting that you would ask this question in your first post on the Forum. :nono:

However, it's great to have guys like you :high: around. I call it JOB SECURITY! :sneaky2:

[Pal334]

Where I come from smoking pot is common thing, Its been said that there is more pot in Thunder Bay, ON then the infamous pot smoking capital Vancouver, BC. I would not doubt that for a second, I even have on some occasions smoked pot with my highschool teachers. Theres not many people who don't do it, including the older crowd. My good friends' father who spent 8 years in B.C. actually said that the pot here is just as good if not better (his words not mine) and hes a veteran smoker. So it was always kind of hard for me not to do it since I was constantly around it. What are your thoughts on pot? How often do you settle in and have a nice relaxing toke?

For the haters, I'm a hardworker, ambitious, adventurous. Same with the people I hang around with. It affects people in differen't ways.

I guess I rank as a "hater" ,is illegal here, and is not conducive to rational thought (nor does excessive use of alcohol) while operating machinery or making important decisions. I do not presume to comment on your choices . I do know my choice is zero tolerance for that and intoxication, one strike and you are out. That is my opinion

[Scoobywan]

Based on my experiences in High School 10+ years ago... the only good that really came out of smoking it, was bugs bunny was funnier than ever. But then I realized bugs bunny is funny enough as is and I don't need to waste my money on making him funnier. :)

[BicycleRider]

Hmmmm. Interesting that you would ask this question in your first post on the Forum. :nono:

However, it's great to have guys like you :high: around. I call it JOB SECURITY! :sneaky2:

Get off you're high horse. I go to school for electrical engineering. Please don't make assumptions of people you don't know.

And P.S. that was a very poor analogy. I bet you thought it would be pretty clever huh?

[Sourdough]

Just my thought, you did ask......If you inhale anything other than pure fresh air your a fool in my book. And this includes inhaling Smog, Gasoline fumes, Paint fumes, Anything, Cigarettes, Pot, anything. But them I think people are foolish to live where the water or air is unpure...........

[Riverrat]

The harmless drug...burn out more brain cells and ten times as hard as cigarettes on your lungs...How often do I toke...not since I grew up and decided I did not need to lean on something to get by. And don't forget..you asked!

[DOGMAN]

It's your life. I know alot of people the smoke weed. Some of them function well in life, some never seem to get on with their lives, or get off the couch...the pot just has stunted them mentally.

My opinion...does it own you- or could you walk away from it today without even thinking about it. If you can't do that- that's a problem in the realm of willderness survival, and in life. All and all i view it as a weakness. I don't care if everyone does it, and its harmless...in my eyes- if its not needed for survival and your dwelling on it- its a weakness.

[Ken]

Get off you're high horse. I go to school for electrical engineering. Please don't make assumptions of people you don't know.

And P.S. that was a very poor analogy. I bet you thought it would be pretty clever huh?

Calm down, Cheech. Or is it Chong? Calm down and fire up another bone.

(BTW, I don't own a horse.) :knight:

I just thought that, this being your first post and all, you may have mistaken the Forum for a NORMAL website suvey.

Anyway, no assumptions or judgments made about you at all. I call folks like you CLIENTS. Especially the ones who "advertise" their habits. You know: Possession Class D in excess of one ounce; Possession Class D with intent to distribute; Trafficking in Class D. I'm a criminal defense lawyer.

And, here's some free advice (yeah, I know it's worth what you pay for it) for everyone else: You shouldn't go posting online about how often you like to catch a little buzz, no matter who you are.

[BicycleRider]

In my experiences the people that smoke pot, are the nicest, most helpful people. Infact, just lastnight I was in a very ****ty situation, long story short I got my truck stuck out in the sticks. And the only people that stopped and helped me was a couple in a big Dodge Cummins, and their cab reeked of pot. They were more then happy to help me out. (This is in Edmonton, AB by the way).

What's your opinion's on alcohol aswell?

[DOGMAN]

In my experience potheads are nice when they're stoned, and irritable and argumentative when they are in need of a toke. I agree stoners often want to be helpful- but are normally more of a hinderance than a help because they are inefficent and mentally disorganized. They can often come-up with creative ideas in how to help-out, but then they can't follow through with them because they get easily distracted and turn their attention to something else. Basically, if your not stoned and trying to work with someone that is, they seem like a complete moron.

As far as alcohol...all things in moderation- weed or whiskey. But like I said earlier...
"My opinion...does it own you- or could you walk away from it today without even thinking about it. If you can't do that- that's a problem in the realm of willderness survival, and in life. All and all i view it as a weakness. I don't care if everyone does it, and its harmless...in my eyes- if its not needed for survival and your dwelling on it- its a weakness." That applies to everything...even Red Bull (my weakness)

[DOGMAN]

Hey Bicycle Rider- why don't you go to the Introduction section, and tells us a bit about yourself: age, wilderness/outdoors/survival experience...what you hope to get out of this community, and what you plan to contribute. There is so much great info on here to share, lets not get bogged down just talking about mind altering substances.
welcome to the forum. thunder bay is a great area!

[Sourdough]

"My opinion...does it own you- or could you walk away from it today without even thinking about it. If you can't do that- that's a problem in the realm of willderness survival, and in life. All and all i view it as a weakness. I don't care if everyone does it, and its harmless...in my eyes- if its not needed for survival and your dwelling on it- its a weakness." That applies to everything...even Red Bull (my weakness)


Surely this does not include Vanilla Flavored Creamers....???? Ya I guess it does...............:lol::lol::lol:

[wildography]

tried it (more than a few times, less than a lot), not only as a teen, but as an adult... doesn't seem to be much point in it... as pointed out above: its illegal, makes you just want to "sit on a couch", its hard on your lungs, a failed drug test can make you lose your job, the high - in my opinion - is not as good as a good "buzz" from alcohol, and it causes a person to not think clearly and efficiently...

having said that... everything in moderation, as also pointed out above.

one last thing, if someone only smokes pot because "everyone else is doing it" or because the people you are "hanging out with" is doing it... then there is something a tad off in your maturity of thought and wisdom. I've hung out - on a few occassions -with people who have been smoking pot, and as it goes around, I just say no thank you and let it pass me by.

To me, smoking pot isn't a great way to show how you're "rebelling against the system", nor a great way to show how "cool" you are... its just something I tried and never found much point to it...

[nell67]

Never tried the stuff,never even seen a real "live?" joint in my life.

[BicycleRider]

Jason, I have gone months and months without smoking up, particularly during the school year. And understand what you mean by stoners can sometimes be morons. Like I said it affects people in differen't ways. For me it seemed to have made life more clear, Its hard to put it into words, but my thinking is actually more straightforward now. I don't look at life as a challenge, I look at it as an experience. And anyone who knows me would say i've got a good head on my shoulders and am heading in the right direction. And if pot was steering me in the wrong direction, I wouldn't be here asking for your opinions.


And yes, Thunder Bay is a great place to live, especially for any outdoor enthusiast, and is populated with 100,000 of some of the kindest people around. :)

[BicycleRider]

one last thing, if someone only smokes pot because "everyone else is doing it" or because the people you are "hanging out with" is doing it... then there is something a tad off in your maturity of thought and wisdom.

I totally understand what you mean, but you have to see it from a younger persons point of view. I agree that just because my friends are doing it doesn't mean I should, this also goes hand in hand with jumping off bridges, lol. But it was my choice to try it, and you know what, I liked it. It feels good to clear your head every now then.

[Durlaburban]

clears your head and nasal passages!! but no i dont "toke up" did cople of times with this big guy named teddy. i thought it was retarded. i threw a light fixture through a bay window. NEVER again man.... never again.

[klkak]

Get off you're high horse. I go to school for electrical engineering. Please don't make assumptions of people you don't know.

And P.S. that was a very poor analogy. I bet you thought it would be pretty clever huh?

I thought it was "Hella" clever!!!

If you keep making comments like that your time on this forum is short lived! Guaranteed:lol:

[crashdive123]

In my experiences the people that smoke pot, are the nicest, most helpful people.
...however, in response to a fairly innocent comment you said....
Get off you're high horse. I really don't care what you do as long as it does not harm anybody else. If that's your thing, then that's your thing. I would however question your comment
good to clear your head every now thenIt's also important to remember that when you ask for opinions, that's exactly what you will get. Some will agree, some will not and others still will have no opinion. If you do not like the answer, don't ask the question.

[wildWoman]

I don't see the point in pot, booze, other drugs. I chose to live my life where and how I really enjoy it and would hate to dull or alter my perception of the wilderness that surrounds me for one nanosecond.

Nobody's getting forced into living their lives the way they do, it's purely personal choice for all of us in the western world, provided we have no mental or severe physical illness/handicap.

[Dennis K.]

Bike Rider: We've asked nicely for you to tell us a bit about yourself in the Introduction section. You have not. Kinda like coming into my house, helping yourself to the food and not so much as saying hello.
Farking Rude.

So: here's what I can guess from your wild-*** posts.
You are a pot head looking for someone to tell you it's OK
You think you have a life because you are in a trade school.
You have the maturity of an opinionated child that thinks you can ask for opinions, then insult those that don't agree with you.
You seek to align yourself with the 100,000 "nice people" of Thunder Bay, and we are just supposed to believe you?
You think it's OK to break laws because it "Clears your head." I'm a professional musician. I've worked with guys who smoke pot/drink/shoot up/snort. They say it clears their head and they think they sound great - and they do in their own mind.
Some of those who post here have had their lives in the hands of others and have stated clearly FROM EXPERIENCE how stoners come across to those around them, yet you still want us to pat you on the back and say "Cool, Dude!"
My advice is to take your pipe, shove it in deeply, and smoke your own crap rather than asking a bunch of internet strangers to coddle your poorly thought out and misguided opinions.

[Rick]

Perhaps you should rephrase from "where I come from" to "those I hang around with". I doubt everyone does weed. But I don't know everyone where you live so I'm not an expert.

What I am an expert on is stuff I put in my body. I'm with Hopeak on this one. I don't need to put chemicals in my body unless it's for a specific disease. And yes, that includes alcohol. What's so cool about getting a buzz on? Is there a reason you need to alter your perception or you mood? The same holds true for alcohol in my book, too. Don't understand it. But you keep posting your location and your habit and there's a good chance you might just need Ken's services so you had better be nice to him. That's my opinion.

[klkak]

Originally Posted by BicycleRider
What are your thoughts on pot? How often do you settle in and have a nice relaxing toke?


Originally Posted by Ken
Hmmmm. Interesting that you would ask this question in your first post on the Forum.

However, it's great to have guys like you around. I call it JOB SECURITY!



Originally Posted by klkak
I thought it was "Hella" clever!!!

If you keep making comments like that your time on this forum is short lived! Guaranteed



Originally Posted by Alpine_Sapper
Uh, what? What did he say that was a "violation", missa offissa?


ZOOM
(That was the gest of the conversation passing you in both lanes)

[chiye tanka]

I'm with Ken, you're a client. BTW, in my line of work, I've run into both good and bad potheads. Personally I don't have a problem with pot, it's all the other drugs out there, but pot is still illegal.
You asked the question, so don't get your panties in a wad when you get responses.

[doug1980]

I never used it nor do I ever want too. The sawmill I worked at had a lot of pot heads, smoked it at lunch time every day. Then one day one of the guys who was stoned accidently cut another man with a chainsaw. Not focused on his job. My brother started smoking pot last year and I rarely talk to him now. Also one of my close friends mother has smoked pot all her life, pretty much, and she is a slush. Barely remembers him half the time and has had 3 strokes, she's 49. So you can't tell me it affects people differently we all have the same brain and it destroys them all. But you aint hurting me so keep doing it.

[gryffynklm]

As a survival question.

The bad thing about pot is that munchies creates a problem with your food stores.
If you chew some up and put it on a bee sting or bug bite it will relieve the itching.
They say pot smoke will keep mosquitos away (I don't know if its the smoke that keeps them away or that you don't feel the bite.)

So I hear ahh.... I don't actually know.... Realy

Oh ya, one more. if you are patient you can make rope from the plant if you strip the leaves.

[Ken]

They say pot smoke will keep mosquitos away (I don't know if its the smoke that keeps them away or that you don't feel the bite.)

It keeps 'em away 'cause they get the munchies, too, and they just figure that a bag of chips is better that your ankle at that moment.:lol:

[trax]

Bicycle Rider, in my day I've smoked a lot of pot. More than most I would say, and eventually....for most of the reasons mentioned here by others, I gave it up and that was years ago. Whether you smoke or not is entirely up to you and I truly, truly don't give a sh*t, but I CANNOT STAND someone popping in here, asking for people to answer a question and then start whining at the answers. Did you come here to look for a fight with non-smokers? If not, shut the he!! up and accept their opinions. If you did, take it somewhere else it isn't what this forum is for.

[Dennis K.]

I would say that we scared him off, but he's probably too baked to remember to check his email.
Sheesh - and I didn't even get into my opinions on da ganja. . .

[trax]

oh yeah, and sometimes smoking weed makes you forget what you wanted to say

and sometimes smoking weed makes you forget what you wanted to say, too. Oh yeah, and sometimes, ...hey why do people's eyes always glass over when I'm talking to them? (now what was I going to say? Oh yeah!....)

[Sarge47]

Since this thread does not pertain to Wilderness Survival & promotes drug use; plus the fact we have young-uns on here kiss it good-bye! I'm locking it down. Insult any more members & your next, understand?

[Chris]

I'm surprised at this discussion, you're all focusing on lifestyle. Lifestyle is beside the point. Lets talk about marijuana and hemp shall we?

They're harmless, yes, harmless, herbs. The "200 times more dangerous" than cigarettes line is propaganda. Cannabis smoke is not inherently more dangerous than tobacco smoke, smoke is smoke. That pack of cigs you buy though has been treated and made in such a way to help remove some of the bad junk. That joint you roll has not. If marijuana was made legal, the problem of there being no filtered-joints in existence would evaporate. Additionally, people smoke 2 packs of cigs a day, as opposed to say 2 joints. Big difference in volume. And there are other ways to use the drug than just smoking.

It is a very mild drug medically speaking, there is not a single medically documented case of anyone ever in the history of mankind overdosing on it. In fact, nicotine is far more toxic and an overdose threat than THC. Nicotine actually, gram for gram, is one of the most toxic things out there.

Marijuana is not chemically addictive. People can claim you get addicted to the lifestyle, but science tells us that our brains do not develop a chemical dependency to THC. Unlike alcohol, or nicotine, or caffeine, or sleeping pills, etc etc etc. No risk of chemical dependency.

No one gets high and beats their wife, or gets high and drives 90 miles an hour on the freeway. They might get high and screw their wife, or get high and drive 30 miles an hour on the freeway. Contrast that with alcohol, which is legal and a factor in 50% of all crimes/accidents/etc.

There was a study showing that marijuana did not impede the judgement center of the brain, nor reaction times to a large degree. I do not recall which or where it was though.

Marijuana does not cause brain damage, it prevents it. Two drugs, marinol and cannibidiol are given to stroke patients and others at risk of brain damage to protect their brains. Both are made from marijuana. The "study" showing it causes brain damage was done on monkeys in the 70s, was not peer reviewed, and no one has been able to repeat the results.

Marijuana is a gateway drug because you have to go to a drug dealer to buy it. If you could buy it at Rite-aid, it'd be a gateway to chips and soda.

Marijuana is a billion dollar industry, most of which is not taxed, or regulated, and that cash keeps violent criminal gangs afloat. I'd rather that cash go to fund education, enforcement of real crimes, and farmers. Not to gangs, smugglers, and drug cartels. How about you?

The illegalization of marijuana was mostly originally done out of political need, the tobacco and cotton lobbies had more money. Yes, cotton, what does cotton have to do with anything?

Hemp is also illegal to grow, hemp is a superior fiber for almost any product, the hemp plant is renewable, grows quickly, and produces one of the longest (Read strongest) fibers in the plant kingdom. You can buy hemp rope here, but farmers aren't allowed to grow it really. King Cotton said no. Hemp is better than cotton, better than most woods for many applications, and can be grown with less of an environmental impact.

Meanwhile the DEA spends tens of millions of dollars (I've heard as high as 300m) yearly flying around spotting and destroying naturally growing and unnaturally growing hemp and marijuana plants in the wilderness. What a waste of cash.

Marijuana is really healthy when eaten, having more vitamin E than garlic for instance. Very very high in antioxidants. Also, it has been used as a medicine for thousands of years, just think maybe new drugs could be unlocked if any scientist could study it, and not just one that jumps through myriad federal hoops.

So yes, legalize it. Regulate it, tax it. Take money away from criminals, give it to farmers. Free up law enforcement resources to go after real crimes and real drugs. Let farmers grow hemp.

[Sarge47]

Since Chris doesn't seem to have a problem with this thread I've re-opened it.
For the record I've smoked weed back in my younger days but preferred alcohol...lots an' lots of alcohol.:drink::wine: Now-a-days I don't use either. I don't do any illeagal drugs at all, but know people who do;:cocain: we don't get along to good I guess.:3:

[Chris]

Ya, the discussion does belong. Much of this site is herblore and primitive skills, and marijuana fits both those. Native americans used the cannibis plant for a myriad of uses.

[Dennis K.]

No one gets high and beats their wife, or gets high and drives 90 miles an hour on the freeway. They might get high and screw their wife, or get high and drive 30 miles an hour on the freeway. Contrast that with alcohol, which is legal and a factor in 50% of all crimes/accidents/etc.
I wonder what the Law Enforcement guys on here have to say about that. The ones that I know tend to say that it really doesn't make any difference what the smoked/drank when it comes to picking up body parts off the highway.

Methinks you've been reading too much propaganda.

[Sarge47]

Ya, the discussion does belong. Much of this site is herblore and primitive skills, and marijuana fits both those. Native americans used the cannibis plant for a myriad of uses.I believe they also used Peyote.

[Dennis K.]

Medicinal use for cancer patients is a whole 'nuther story. I'm all for it.

[ride_gnu]

This is a very interesting subject, with many interesting responses, so far I feel "Chris" has taken the cake. The information most people have about pot is horribly wrong. I have smoked pot for the last 10 years, as much as once a day in some cases. I am also a 3rd year engineering student who already has a degree of technology in Civil Engineering. I do other drugs as well. However at the same time, I do not drink alcohol or caffeine, do not eat food that is bad for me, and I do not waste time sitting on my couch and watching tv.

In my opinion pot is a drug, so is Macdonalds, Acid, TV, Cocaine, caffeine, MDMA, Nicotine, and the list goes on forever. If you can kick all of those well than you my friend are free. Oh and don't forget MONEY!!!!!!!

In the end your choice is what you choose to do, and I from personal experince I would much rather hang out with the kid on pot, mushrooms, acid, or anything, who would rather listen to the forest than sit in Macdonalds and eat a big mac.

[Ken]

A few observations for whatever they're worth:

1. Yep, weed should probably be legalized. Too many resources wasted fighting this "crime." (Mass just de-criminalized possession of one ounce or less.)

2. Weed isn't exactly an alternative to alcohol. Most people who drink ain't intent on getting buzzed from it.

3. Weed or alcohol. DON'T DRIVE!

4. I know people who are just screwed up (waste most of their lives and really aren't productive) because of weed AND alcohol. Many are clients.

5. As long as you aren't hurting anyone (by driving wasted, not working or supporting your family, or simply abusing any substance to the level where it's hurting others) I don't care WHAT you do.

[Riverrat]

The one big problem I have with weed is it is a starter drug..try this see how good you feel, after while try acid, the heroin, the meth....I have seen it happen to to many people both in my work and in my family. Pot may be, as some say harmless, but the rest are not. Try to talk to a mother who has just lost a kid to an overdose, or a MVA because of drugs.....

[BicycleRider]

I would say that we scared him off, but he's probably too baked to remember to check his email.
Sheesh - and I didn't even get into my opinions on da ganja. . .

Sorry I don't sit here clicking refresh all day. You need to learn to relax a little bit.

I'm sorry I brought this topic up.

[BicycleRider]

Bike Rider: We've asked nicely for you to tell us a bit about yourself in the Introduction section. You have not. Kinda like coming into my house, helping yourself to the food and not so much as saying hello.
Farking Rude.

So: here's what I can guess from your wild-*** posts.
You are a pot head looking for someone to tell you it's OK
You think you have a life because you are in a trade school.
You have the maturity of an opinionated child that thinks you can ask for opinions, then insult those that don't agree with you.
You seek to align yourself with the 100,000 "nice people" of Thunder Bay, and we are just supposed to believe you?
You think it's OK to break laws because it "Clears your head." I'm a professional musician. I've worked with guys who smoke pot/drink/shoot up/snort. They say it clears their head and they think they sound great - and they do in their own mind.
Some of those who post here have had their lives in the hands of others and have stated clearly FROM EXPERIENCE how stoners come across to those around them, yet you still want us to pat you on the back and say "Cool, Dude!"
My advice is to take your pipe, shove it in deeply, and smoke your own crap rather than asking a bunch of internet strangers to coddle your poorly thought out and misguided opinions.

It was either school or sitting on the street corner playing my flute.

[Rick]

In the end your choice is what you choose to do, and I from personal experince I would much rather hang out with the kid on pot, mushrooms, acid, or anything, who would rather listen to the forest than sit in Macdonalds and eat a big mac.

I'd much rather have the avionics on my next flight designed by an electrical engineer eating a Big Mac than one that is on acid, mushrooms or weed.

[Chris]

The one big problem I have with weed is it is a starter drug..try this see how good you feel, after while try acid, the heroin, the meth....I have seen it happen to to many people both in my work and in my family. Pot may be, as some say harmless, but the rest are not. Try to talk to a mother who has just lost a kid to an overdose, or a MVA because of drugs.....
Only because it is illegal, forcing otherwise reasonable people to go to a drug dealer to buy it, and the drug dealer isn't going to not push more expensive stuff on you and go for the upsell.

You know why cigarettes, the active ingredient being far more addictive and dangerous, are NOT a gateway drug? Because you don't buy them from drug dealers.

In the end the most compelling reason to legalize it is economic. If California legalized it, just with sales tax, and not with any additional tax, it'd balance their budget.

It is kinda like gambling or the lottery. The government has sanctioned the activity and they get revenue from it to support schools, meanwhile less people are visiting illegal gambling locations that benefit organized crime and lead to violence.

[RangerXanatos]

Cannabis is fine for material such as hemp rope.

But as far as recreational drugs, I have no respect for people that use it. Any person that uses any mind altering drug for recreation is a low life in my eyes. That being said, alcohol is only mind altering after so much has been drunk. And people that are constantly getting drunk are low lifes also. I have no pity for these people as long as they are on these drugs or habbits. People that come clean are ok in my book. But otherwise, they can lose their all of their possesions, cut their leg off (as stated before), pick anything which seems terrible. I don't care, you will not get anything from me. Only the innocent ones deserve and will get my pity.

I've people to say that it wouldn't be here if we weren't supposed to use it. My reply is to go and try smoking a rolled leaf of poison ivy, or go eat destroying angel...

But seeing as this was your first post, it says to me that you only crave attention. Therefore, I have nothing more to say to you since you should be able to discen how I feel about you. :poop:

[MatthewnOK]

I'm going to speak from personal experience here. My brother started out smoking pot, and then went to heavier stuff. Him and a buddy got caught brewing meth and got a nice ride with the red and blue light people. We had to take out a loan to bail him out. Now he's had two wives, several children he never visits or talks to, and several warrents out for his arrest. I believe pot is only a stepping stone to heavier stuff. It's a terrible thing to see someone's life ruined. Pot also shortens your life span, gives you breathing problems. Because of a breathing problem i can only breathe about half what a normal person can. Trust me, it's not a nice feeling to be so out of breathe you wanna collapse after you've barely walked a half mile. Make the smart choice man, don't do drugs.

[woodsman86]

OK here comes my 2 cent comments.

From an Army NCO's view...it is not acceptable at all
The Army has a strict Zero Tolerance Policy with drugs

Every Soldier I have dealt with that has decided to endulge in a toke has been reduced to lowest possible rank and dishonorably discharged. They usually end up drying my truck off at the car wash because no one else will hire them.

To defend against the comments about "if they don't do it at work than whats it matter" That only works until they smoke some bad s**t and go crazy on their chain of command, taking away from our fighting force.

Yes in my younger days prior to the Army I endulged in more than my fair share of illegal drugs and see it as a bad decision that could have had a very negative impact on my future.

Remember if your going to do the crime, be prepared to do the time.

[DOGMAN]

I hear the arguments for legalization, and I have no problem with that. Legalize it and tax it...I am all for it. But, my argument is still the same as earlier. Obsessing/Craving/Jonesing for anything... be it booze, weed, or the nectar of the gods known as Red Bull is all a sign of weakness. these things arent necessites and if your mind or lifestyle have you desiring these things on a regular basis your setting yourself up for an added struggle in a survival situation. Its all about SELF RELIANCE and LIVING FREE in all situations, and if your craving mind/body altering substances than your not free or truly self-reliant

[Riverrat]

Sorry Chris I don't agree, cigarettes don't make you high, they do not impair your driving, or other motor skills. I have seen to many kids and adults with their lives ruined by drugs, be it pot or meth, all the same to me. I have seen a car upside down in a ditch, a tree 10" round cut off, and two very dead teens around it. They were smoking pot before they went to a movie, the girl who was driving lived, she is now in a home because of the mental anguish of having killed her friends. She was a beautiful you lady, real sweet girl, friends with my oldest daughter, and now sits and stares at walls. She is 25 now, 17 at the time of the accident.

The other two who died were a young lad 16 and a 16 year old girl who died in my arms....sorry I don't agree, and I also don't agree with this topic being allowed on a Wilderness Survival Forum....to may young minds on here.

[Pal334]

After my initial comments on this issue, I sat back and “watched” the forum, fully cognizant of the fact that we all have a right to our own opinions. However I have to agree with Riverrat when he says that he does not agree with this topic being on this forum. There are many younger folks here and I am concerned that these pathetic (my opinion) rationalizations seem to be trivializing (hope there is such a word) the fact that pot is illegal, does effect ones motor skills and judgment (as does usage of alcohol). If an individual is in a position of trust, public service, police, military, teaching, Scout Master, having a government security clearance, etc , you can not avoid the fact that you are and always will be held to a standard different than the “average Joe”. Woodsman rightly mentions the U.S. Military “zero tolerance policy” for drugs There is a good reason for that , it is disruptive to good order and discipline (as is overuse of alcohol). And the contention that the only reason that pot is a “starter drug” is because it is illegal is plain silliness, look at other countries where it is legal, it is a “starter drug” in those places. Call me a hater if you will, I will proudly wear the title, and if you work for me, be prepared to bounce on your posterior on the way out the door if you use pot, other drugs or misuse alcohol.

[Sarge47]

Woulda, Coulda, shoulda. Here's the skinny. Marijauna IS illeagal & can be detected in the human body up to 30 days after the person uses it. I got pulled off of my bus a while back for a "random" drug test. Of course I was clean, but if I hadn't been I'd have been terminated immediately! Don't need no "pot-heads" driving buses, I guess. They can even test from a hair focible. Anymore companies are demanding a "drug & alcohol free" work place. With that said I leave you with these words from Brewer & Shipley:

"One toke over the line sweet Jesus, one toke over the line.
Sittin' downtown in a railway station one toke over the line.
waitin' for the train to take me home sweet Mary
hopin' that the train is on time.
Sittin' downtown in a railway station, one toke over the line."

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Then got so stoned I lost the T-shirt.
Ya all do what you want, but there's a lot of other things I'd rather spend my money on. Like a Ka-Bar/Becker BK7!

[Stairman]

Ill take a swipe at this one.I smoked pot off and on for 30 years.Never got hooked,never stole to buy pot,was outspoken then about it and am still the blacksheep of the family because of it.In my experience with it,a few hits does you better than a whole joint.Having a buzz was stimulating and opened your senses up tenfold!It would get me off the couch not on it.The creativity gained was emense.I could play guitar not better but as good and wouldnt tire of it as fast.It gave me patience and made me nicer and more mello.Lifting weights[exercise]became less boring and workouts were alot more productive.On the other hand smoking the whole joint was totally different.All those positives or most are gone.You eat too much and are content on the couch watching Mr Rogers with his trolley and strange puppets.Moderation was the key.Now at 46 I dont want legal trouble over it and have kind of a been there done that attitude.As stated any smoke inhaled in the lungs longterm is not good for you and Im living the rest of my life as healthy as I can .As for my advice to you,keep only misdemeaner amounts,dont drive and smoke it,and use it in moderation.

[Dennis K.]

Hey Chris - from our thread starter here in his intro:


LOL, good to see theirs actually some humour in this forum. And I can honestly say i've never rode my bike stoned, thats just straight up dangerous. And yes I love the bush aswell as smoking the bush, lol.

I guess a motor vehicle would be more safe?

OK - my personal feelings about pot. If you are an informed, mature adult, with no children to be responsible for, with a job that does not require you to be responsible for the health and safety of others, then go ahead. It's your life, your money.
For medicinal uses, under the care of a physician, I have no problems with it.

BUT

Pot is illegal in most states. It will get you fired from many jobs. IF you are a kid and use it and get arrested, you MIGHT be able to pass it off as a crime of youth when you apply for a job - that doesn't work to well if you are in your mid-30's or 40's or 50's. Contrary to popular and misguided belief, you are NOT safe to operate a motor vehicle while on this stuff.

Pot-advocates like to say "do you feel the same about alcohol or caffeine or nicotine, or Diet Coke?"
Well, No.
None of those are illegal, nor do they carry the same social stigma as illegal drugs. I don't drink alcohol and drive. Same with certain prescription medications.

Pot-advocates like to tout the "health benefits." I think some of the firefighters here can accurately describe the effects of smoke inhalation. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of the lungs and airways. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

ehhh.... rather than quote a bunch of stuff, here's a link:
http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/facts-about-marijuana.htm

found this one rather interesting:
Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.

[Riverrat]

Very well put Dennis, and you did not use one word that had to be edited out....

[Pal334]

Alpine, this is the beauty of a democracy, you do not have to agree with me, nor I with you.

[trax]

Natives have used cannabis, peyote, "magic" mushrooms, and other plants that I'm not even going to discuss here (but call me and we can arrange something :lol:) ceremonially in different areas. All of them have been misused and abused by natives and non-natives alike throughout the ages.

Let's recall that there was a time when opium dens were quite fashionable to the gentlemen of London, wow..the times they are a-changin!

I was just reading a piece of JJ Astor, reputed to be America's first millionaire, started the American Fur Company which led all those trappers and traders that we all admire here so much tramping off into the west in search of wealth and glory. Well, it turns out :detective: that ol' JJ did OK in the fur trade, but made his real money as an opium dealer. Looks like it's a grand old tradition, of sorts. :burst:

[Dennis K.]

OK, so your argument is:
Nicotine is bad for you and legal, so let's make pot legal.
hmmm....


And since you're only argument
I presented several - including a gateway argument, a health argument, and an impairment argument.

As far as me being closed minded, hypocritical, judgemental and uptight because I never tried it....
hmmm - let's think about this for a minute.
Miranda vs. Arizone (Supreme Court) - "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"
So, perhaps I would not want to admit on a public forum that everyone can see, that I might have broken an established law?

Also, why is it that pot-advocates always offer up this appeal to emotion that it is all about money and the big guy oppressing the poor little guys that just want to get baked - heck we ain't hurtin' nobody :crying:

Offer up some sound, peer-reviewed science and I will be open to it. Note, that does not mean MORMAL propaganda, nor would it include MADD propaganda.

[Chris]

Sorry Chris I don't agree, cigarettes don't make you high, they do not impair your driving, or other motor skills. I have seen to many kids and adults with their lives ruined by drugs, be it pot or meth, all the same to me. I have seen a car upside down in a ditch, a tree 10" round cut off, and two very dead teens around it. They were smoking pot before they went to a movie, the girl who was driving lived, she is now in a home because of the mental anguish of having killed her friends. She was a beautiful you lady, real sweet girl, friends with my oldest daughter, and now sits and stares at walls. She is 25 now, 17 at the time of the accident.

The other two who died were a young lad 16 and a 16 year old girl who died in my arms....sorry I don't agree, and I also don't agree with this topic being allowed on a Wilderness Survival Forum....to may young minds on here.
It must be so convenient for the anti-marijuana crowd to link it to things like say, meth, heroine, cocaine, etc. Those drugs can actually kill you, can actually cause a chemical addiction.

Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. And many of you are making the logical fallacy of cum hoc (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/cumhocfa.html) also known as, correlation != causation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation)

Because some person is a violent criminal and also does dangerous drugs (meth, whatever) does not mean that that behavior was caused by pot use.

You might have an anecdotal example of a teen who got high and crashed a car. Well, that is sad, but what about the teen who was tired because they were up studying and crashed a car? Or the teen that was drinking and crashed a car? I don't think anyone things pot should be legal for 16 year olds, or that there shouldn't still be a driving under the influence statute.

If anything that could possibly be a factor in a car accident needs to be outlawed, where do we stop? Put everyone on a curfew, mandate x hours of sleep, outlaw cell phones, outlaw alcohol, cough syrup, prescription medications, cigarettes (it might not make you high, but if you smoke while driving you're distracted and only using one hand), fast food drive throughs?

Or should we, perhaps, only pass laws relegating the behavior of drivers, and not perse the behaviors of people sitting in their backyards?

[Dennis K.]

Actually, I don't consider DEA to be peer reviewed, although they are under more scrutiny than NORMAL or MADD or any other agency with an political agenda.

As far as freedom is concerned, based on my previous statement:

OK - my personal feelings about pot. If you are an informed, mature adult, with no children to be responsible for, with a job that does not require you to be responsible for the health and safety of others, then go ahead. It's your life, your money.
For medicinal uses, under the care of a physician, I have no problems with it.

Knock yourself out. You are also free to juggle loaded pistols, and drive with bald tires on wet mountain roads, bridge-jumping etc.


The gateway argument is bunk, and the impairment argument comes down to JUDGEMENT on when to use it. As for the health argument, it doesn't hold up since they have legalized nicotine and alcohol. Regardless, all three of those arguments are suspect, just as the counter arguments are.
The gateway argument has EXTENSIVE science and research - medical, psychological, criminal, social services & welfare, etc. If you can link to something that is not from Hemp magazine to present an alternative view, I would be open to it.
The Impairment argument - I'll let the law enforcement and EMT guys weigh in on that. They are the ones usually at the crash scenes.
In your statement that the health argument doesn't hold up, you again have re-stated Nicotine is bad for you and legal, so let's make pot legal - just in different words.

I have no desire to enter into a flame war either. I respect your right to make a personal choice, although there seems to be a LOT of propaganda and appeal to emotion on BOTH sides. So, I'll join you in politics & religion:)

[trax]

Man, I am SO glad that bicycle rider started this thread. Drop the gloves ladies, commence to clawin' :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Chris]

Hey Chris - from our thread starter here in his intro:



I guess a motor vehicle would be more safe?

OK - my personal feelings about pot. If you are an informed, mature adult, with no children to be responsible for, with a job that does not require you to be responsible for the health and safety of others, then go ahead. It's your life, your money.
For medicinal uses, under the care of a physician, I have no problems with it.

BUT

Pot is illegal in most states. It will get you fired from many jobs. IF you are a kid and use it and get arrested, you MIGHT be able to pass it off as a crime of youth when you apply for a job - that doesn't work to well if you are in your mid-30's or 40's or 50's. Contrary to popular and misguided belief, you are NOT safe to operate a motor vehicle while on this stuff.

Pot-advocates like to say "do you feel the same about alcohol or caffeine or nicotine, or Diet Coke?"
Well, No.
None of those are illegal, nor do they carry the same social stigma as illegal drugs. I don't drink alcohol and drive. Same with certain prescription medications.

Pot-advocates like to tout the "health benefits." I think some of the firefighters here can accurately describe the effects of smoke inhalation. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers have. These individuals may have daily cough and phlegm, symptoms of chronic bronchitis, and more frequent chest colds. Continuing to smoke marijuana can lead to abnormal functioning of the lungs and airways. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.

ehhh.... rather than quote a bunch of stuff, here's a link:
http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/facts-about-marijuana.htm

found this one rather interesting:
Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana. For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it.

You are mostly using the fallacy of circular reasoning. Pot should not be legal, because pot is illegal.

I do not recommend people go out and smoke pot and break the law. I don't, not that I wouldn't if say a bundle fell into my lap, but I don't go out and seek it because I don't want to associate with the criminal element. What I am saying is that pot should be legalized so that there is no longer a social stigma.

Quite frankly, there is a bit of a social stigma against loners who live out in the woods with guns and try to avoid relying on society. Should we make homesteading illegal?

The "study" you quote uses the cum hoc logical fallacy I pointed out earlier. Just because two things happen in correlation, doesn't mean one causes the other.

The fact is, whatever your belief is, science tells us that marijuana is not addictive and not dangerous. Not when compared to other illegal substances. In fact, if you say made pot brownies and ate them on your back porch, they would actually be healthier for you than normal brownies.

Kids aren't stupid, they get exposed to programs like DARE which are utterly ineffective and spread false information (http://alcoholfacts.org/DARE.html) and they're told that marijuana is deadly and dangerous, along with meth, and heroine, and cocaine, etc. Only later, the kid learns the truth about weed, and thinks maybe the anti drug people were lying about the other ones too.

My kids are going to get straight talk about drugs, and I tell you what, I'd rather catch them smoking a non-addictive joint, than smoking a cigarette. Because pot isn't chemically addictive people can smoke it socially and or at special occassions, the rare party, etc. Like alcohol use. You can't really do that with tobacco because it does create a chemical addiction.

[Chris]

Actually, I don't consider DEA to be peer reviewed, although they are under more scrutiny than NORMAL or MADD or any other agency with an political agenda.

As far as freedom is concerned, based on my previous statement:


Knock yourself out. You are also free to juggle loaded pistols, and drive with bald tires on wet mountain roads, bridge-jumping etc.


The gateway argument has EXTENSIVE science and research - medical, psychological, criminal, social services & welfare, etc. If you can link to something that is not from Hemp magazine to present an alternative view, I would be open to it.
The Impairment argument - I'll let the law enforcement and EMT guys weigh in on that. They are the ones usually at the crash scenes.
In your statement that the health argument doesn't hold up, you again have re-stated Nicotine is bad for you and legal, so let's make pot legal - just in different words.

I have no desire to enter into a flame war either. I respect your right to make a personal choice, although there seems to be a LOT of propaganda and appeal to emotion on BOTH sides. So, I'll join you in politics & religion:)
The gateway argument IS bunk.

All it proves is that people who break the law are more likely to break the law. If proves that people who do not respect the law are just as happy to break the law concerning one substance as another. And it proves that people who associate with criminals are more likely to be criminals.

It does not prove that a drug causes a psychological change in the brain causing someone to want to experiment with other drugs.



Myth: Marijuana is a Gateway Drug. Even if marijuana itself causes minimal harm, it is a dangerous substance because it leads to the use of "harder drugs" like heroin, LSD, and cocaine.
Fact: Marijuana does not cause people to use hard drugs. What the gateway theory presents as a causal explanation is a statistic association between common and uncommon drugs, an association that changes over time as different drugs increase and decrease in prevalence. Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug in the United States today. Therefore, people who have used less popular drugs such as heroin, cocaine, and LSD, are likely to have also used marijuana. Most marijuana users never use any other illegal drug. Indeed, for the large majority of people, marijuana is a terminus rather than a gateway drug.

Morral, Andrew R.; McCaffrey, Daniel F. and Susan M. Paddock. “Reassessing the marijuana gateway effect.” Addiction 97.12 (2002): 1493-504.


United States. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Population Estimates 1994. Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1995.


---. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings 1994. Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 1996.


D.B. Kandel and M. Davies, “Progression to Regular Marijuana Involvement: Phenomenology and Risk Factors for Near-Daily Use,” Vulnerability to Drug Abuse, Eds. M. Glantz and R. Pickens. Washington, D.C.: American Psychological


Good enough for you?

Did you know the government has repeatedly funded panels, under I believe both Nixon and Reagan, to look into the question if pot should be legalized, both times the panel found the answer to be yes?

[Chris]

By the way, this is a nice site.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway

All their stuff is backed up by multiple references, most of which are the US Federal Government and or medical journals.

[Dennis K.]

It must be so convenient for the anti-marijuana crowd to link it to things like say, meth, heroine, cocaine, etc. Those drugs can actually kill you, can actually cause a chemical addiction.

Anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence. And many of you are making the logical fallacy of cum hoc (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/cumhocfa.html) also known as, correlation != causation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation)


Although it is a fallacy to assume that correlation = causation, It is also foolish to assume that there are no links between the two.
What I cited simply implies a link between marajuana and cocaine. Nowhere does it say "Marajuana causes cocaine addiction."


Or should we, perhaps, only pass laws relegating the behavior of drivers, and not perse the behaviors of people sitting in their backyards?

We have many laws that apply only to drivers. For example, suspension of your DL after a stroke, or safe operating laws, the violation of which can sometimes result in criminal penalties.
Because you are licensed to drive a vehicle, you are also obligated to own up to the responsibility of operating one in a way that does not endanger property or people.

As far as laws regarding pot are concerned, I don't think many law enforcement officers care about the casual backyard adult pot-smoker. Especially if you grow it yourself. But since it is illegal, casual users must seek out illegal sources. So, by saying "Just make it legal and there won't be any problems" is kinda like saying "Let's end all crime by just taking away all the laws."
It is simply neither practical nor realistic.

[Chris]

Although it is a fallacy to assume that correlation = causation, It is also foolish to assume that there are no links between the two.
What I cited simply implies a link between marajuana and cocaine. Nowhere does it say "Marajuana causes cocaine addiction."



We have many laws that apply only to drivers. For example, suspension of your DL after a stroke, or safe operating laws, the violation of which can sometimes result in criminal penalties.
Because you are licensed to drive a vehicle, you are also obligated to own up to the responsibility of operating one in a way that does not endanger property or people.

As far as laws regarding pot are concerned, I don't think many law enforcement officers care about the casual backyard adult pot-smoker. Especially if you grow it yourself. But since it is illegal, casual users must seek out illegal sources. So, by saying "Just make it legal and there won't be any problems" is kinda like saying "Let's end all crime by just taking away all the laws."
It is simply neither practical nor realistic.
The implication of the correlation is obvious. You're claiming cause and effect.

And legalizing pot isn't about anarchy, it is about practicality. Why did prohibition fail? Because speakeasys and bootleggers bred a violent criminal element and society decided they're rather deal with drunks than shootouts.

By making pot illegal all you're doing is funding violent gangs, depriving farmers of revenue, depriving governments of tax dollars, depriving schools of funding, and depriving industry of a superior fiber in hemp for production of many consumer products. Oh, and of course wasting law enforcement resources.

Pot should be like alcohol, illegal to give to miners, illegal to drive under the influence of, but able to be bought at the corner store by an adult. Tax it and regulate it. Let us stop sending billions to mexican cartels.

[Dennis K.]

By the way, this is a nice site.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#gateway

All their stuff is backed up by multiple references, most of which are the US Federal Government and or medical journals.

You are right. Interesting site. found on page 1, with maybe 10 seconds of perusing:
Consider becoming a member of DPA Network by making a contribution, sign up to receive important information and

and a bookstore, too....

gee, no profit agenda whatsoever.

I am willing to look through some of the references, although none of the sources on the myth page are linked.
Again, I am all for medical usage.

The problem is not with the casual user. The problem is w/ the idiots. Just like alcohol.
So, reasonable reform of pot laws, I would be open to. A blanket "hey dude, just make it legal" I would not be open to.
I guess it's simply a matter of definition of "reasonable."

[Stairman]

Chris,as the administrator of this site I commend your honesty on this subject.

[Chris]

Chris,as the administrator of this site I commend your honesty on this subject.
I'm a staunch libertarian and this has long been one of my pet issues.

[Sarge47]

Never seen Chis post so much stuff on one thread before. I think this beats Remy's record by a mile! Okay guys, ya want to tone it down before the marketing dept over in India decide to make a "controlled substanse" to compete with weed out of cow pies?:high:

[Dennis K.]

Sarge - so far you have made one of THE most relevant points. A lotta kids on this forum (and that is not necessarily determined by actual age) and this is probably not the best topic for them to learn about herblore.

[Fletcher]

Wait what was the Question??????????

[RangerXanatos]

Everyone uses mind altering drugs for recreation. Whether it be THC, caffiene, or adrenaline. Pot just happens to be a downer/hallucinogen.



Bull****. Making a statement like that proves everything else that came out of your mouth is pure unadulterated horse****.

Wow, and I thought *I* was a judgemental asshole, but you take the cake. But at least I can ****ing spell. :)

Oh, so you say because a person drinks a Pepsi, he is drinking caffeine for recreation? I guess people don't get thirsty anymore, huh?

And I assume that believe that a person drinking half a beer and a whole keg are one and the same? That's what I'm reading with your statement. To me, half a beer doesn't make most people drunk while a keg will. That is what I was meaning.

I came off as harsh with my statement earlier so maybe I should add that I don't care what a person does at their own home as long as an innocent person is hurt. They can go smoke weed as much as they want, drive without seatbelts, I don't care as long as others are not being harmed. But those people will have no pity from me. They already know the risks of their actions.

Like others have said, you don't have to agree with me and you haven't. But I am offended that you call me a liar and used vulgar words that needed to be filtered out, if that is in fact what you were doing. Most people on this forum have my deepest respect, but you just lost it with your actions.

Oh, one more thing. I'm not an english major and don't expect my spelling to be perfect. You might want to check your own though, it's caffeine... ;)

Daniel

[Ole WV Coot]

Have at it sonny. It's the biggest cash crop in WV and we can use the money. Maybe we could get a Grown in WV spread on all the plastic bags, that way you will get the best. My personal opinion, I know more growers and fewer smokers so we count on your business. You and everyone else do your thing just not here.

[Riverrat]

So Chris, as this is your of your peeves, and it is illegal, are we now opening this forum to all and everything? and I am sorry, comparing pot use to studying makes you sound, in my book like an idiot! I thought this forum was for wilderness. not political statements, or advocating illegal use of drugs. Nice to see where this forum is heading.....

[RangerXanatos]

Dude, what's your problem. Whatever it is, I don't care.

My point that I was trying to bring out is that not everyone is under the same umbrella. The soda thing was never meant to be taken about the hydrating/dehydrating qualities, but the fact that everyone doesn't drink it for recreational reasons.

And if you looked at my quote, I said MOST people would not be drunk with half a beer. And you further pointed it out stating that it depends on your consumption level. So it would depend on the individual person as to how much alcohol would need to be injested before the person exhibit mind alterations. That was my whole point on my first post in which you rudely critisized.

You may have not have known this, but there is such a thing as politeness. Generally speaking, when people are polite, they are often respected. Not always agreed with, but often respected. You say that vulgar language makes getting points across more effective? I say that it just shows how uncouth an individual is.

Since there is no reasoning with you. I am done, you are now on ignore.

Sorry for the off-topic posts everyone.
Daniel

[Stairman]

Riverrat all forums Ive been on have an off-topic section.If your not interested in the subject dont click on it.I dont see the forum going to pot though.

[Chris]

So Chris, as this is your of your peeves, and it is illegal, are we now opening this forum to all and everything? and I am sorry, comparing pot use to studying makes you sound, in my book like an idiot! I thought this forum was for wilderness. not political statements, or advocating illegal use of drugs. Nice to see where this forum is heading.....
In my opinion the one of the core tenants of this forum is freedom. Most of us like a lifestyle where we're free from government interference, probably most of us like to be as self reliant as possible.

In the end a discussion on the inappropriate ban of the growing and using of marijuana and hemp is no different than a discussion on say, at attempt to make firearms illegal, or changes to hunting and fishing license rules.

Not that survivalists all smoke pot, but the fact is, if you were trying to be 100% self sufficient and have your own homestead and be unreliant on society, hemp would be an invaluable crop to grow. It grows like a weed, pun intended, and would be your best source for rope and fabric making.

The fact that there is an activity that would make us more self sufficient that we are not allowed to do is worthy of discussion, and of course in making that discussion you can, and have to, touch on the reasons the government and others put forth as to why the plant is illegal to grow.

The history of hemp production and marijuana is fairly interesting, I wonder how many attitudes would be different is people hadn't bought the Tobacco and Cotton industry propoganda and made it illegal. It was made illegal based on lies by big special interests who wanted you to be more reliant on their products. Worthy of discussion? Yes.

Ps, sorry you think I'm an idiot.

[Riverrat]

Acutely Chris, I think you are very intelligent, at least in some things, but to compare studding with getting high, well, thats a little a little off the deep end. I have seen the other side. I lost a very good friend to drugs, we both started smoking pot together, I got caught, got my butt kicked up between my shoulders by my pop. I quit, but he did not get caught, from pot he went to Hash, then to acid. The last time I seen him alive was when he was high on angel dust and trying to kill a cop. I have seen the bad side of smoking pot, regardless of what the experts say, and I have not seen the good, except for pain relief.

I have been involved with EMS for 25 year now, in the time I have come to really hate drugs and alcohol. I live in a small rural area, I have seen to many of my friends killed or hurt by drugs, even the soft ones. Just so you know, as Stairman said, don't look if you don't like...I agree, this is the last time I will be on this thread.

Brian.

[Ole WV Coot]

I never smoked it, had a liquid habit. The smell gives me a headache for some reason. Now I stay away from anything that makes farm animals attractive but that's another story. Main thing is it's illegal and with so many LEOs in my family plus I sleep on my stomach I don't partake anymore of anything. BTW riding a bike high is dumber than a sled track, walking is even dangerous high. Just my opinion on the stuff growing behind the house.

[grundle]

From age 13 all the way through University the majority of my associations were drug users. The vast majority of these people preferred pot and most would have said it was a "harmless" habit.

This long span of years gave me a great opportunity to observe the effects and ramifications of their drug use. I can say that 100% of the people I knew who were actively using pot regularly, their lives spiraled "out of control". When I say "out of control" I am not referring to over dose, or life-ending situations, but I did observe a marked lack of judgement when it came to making important decisions. I also notice a lack of forsight. Their perspective was to live today, worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Many of these acquaintences dropped out of high school or college. Today, the ones that have moved on, become successful, and are living well adjusted lives within our framework of society have all, and I repeat ALL, given up their previous usage of pot. Every single one that I have spoken to were all in agreement that it was disrupting their lives.

I have run into a few over the years that refused to give up. Two of them are nomads, one who enjoys a biker lifestyle -- which I am not condemning at all -- but he cannot keep steady relationships. The other moves from place to place living on the street or in "homes". One can play chess at a grandmaster level, but instead works at a restaurant so that he can afford his after-work habits.

As for me, I spent over 12 years in constant HEAVY contact with this drug (as well as others) and I never saw an instance where it was beneficial. The best I can say about it, is that it rendered my friends into a bovine jovial state. No they were not harmless to anyone but themselves and their respective futures. I decided early on that I didn't want to change the way my brain functions, so I never indulged nor tried drugs.

Today I am grateful that I never did. I don't need a drug to "open my mind" or "clear my head". I don't need it to relax or expand my reality. There is just too damn much to do to worry about all that esoteric metaphysical pseudo-spiritual BS.

I know that many of you will want to say this is purely anecdotal evidence, but I would have to say that my life experience trumps your theoretical illusions. If you are currently indulging in this lifestyle I think you are most likely maintaining, but certainly not moving forward. It will catch you sooner or later, I have seen it happen every time. I am not speaking of physical ailments, I am talking about your life and where it is going.

[Rick]

It wouldn't bother me at all if tobacco in all it's forms were outlawed. The cost to society to provide medical care for the resulting problems tobacco causes far outweighs the benefits that taxation and sales create.

If you use the reverse logic that marijuana should be legalized because the taxes and sales benefit society than you also have to be ready to say where we draw the line. If growing marijuana is okay then how about poppies?

I don't know where you draw the line but I don't think legalizing it is any more prudent than having tobacco legalized. The ONLY reason tobacco remains legal today is because of lobbiests and the money tobacco generates. Forget the medical impact that all of us pay for through taxes.

Anytime you put a foreign substance into your body there has to be a consequence. Certainly, some drugs are necessary for many to maintain health and life. I can certainly see the medical benefits of marijuana. But, for the life of me, I do NOT understand the use of chemicals to alter your mood unless you are under the direct supervision of a doctor.

I don't want to meet a pot-head driving down the road any more than I want to meet a drunk. Sadly, both are out there driving.

[Sarge47]

It wouldn't bother me at all if tobacco in all it's forms were outlawed. The cost to society to provide medical care for the resulting problems tobacco causes far outweighs the benefits that taxation and sales create.

If you use the reverse logic that marijuana should be legalized because the taxes and sales benefit society than you also have to be ready to say where we draw the line. If growing marijuana is okay then how about poppies?

I don't know where you draw the line but I don't think legalizing it is any more prudent than having tobacco legalized. The ONLY reason tobacco remains legal today is because of lobbiests and the money tobacco generates. Forget the medical impact that all of us pay for through taxes.

Anytime you put a foreign substance into your body there has to be a consequence. Certainly, some drugs are necessary for many to maintain health and life. I can certainly see the medical benefits of marijuana. But, for the life of me, I do NOT understand the use of chemicals to alter your mood unless you are under the direct supervision of a doctor.

I don't want to meet a pot-head driving down the road any more than I want to meet a drunk. Sadly, both are out there driving.
Here in Illinois both Tobacco & Alcohol are illegal... if you're under 18 or 21! I see students getting busted all the time for under-age drinking & under-age buying of both tobacco & booze. Not to mention the establishments that sell it to them without carding 1st. Then there's the new law that bans smoking in ANY establishment.

Like Chris, I'm a Libertarian, however, pot use, like that of the other stuff is not a matter of legality, but one of morality. What kind of example are we setting for our children & grandchildren? I was on staff at a Rescue Mission for 4 years & saw 1st hand lives that were once filled with promise turned to crap.(there, but for the grace of God, go I) I had people expelled who were using either weed, drugs, or alcohol, & if they didn't leave I called the police to physically remove them as we had other addicts staying there trying desperately to "clean-up" & didn't need to be around that stuff. Sometimes the users didn't go peacefully & spent the night in jail. I could go on & on.

I won't preach to those who want to use as I believe that no member on here can go 24 hours without intentionally breaking a law or two; & as an American you have the right to choose what you want to do, legal or not. I also know that there are some adults, perhaps Chis is one of them, that can use in moderation. However the term "adult" is a pretty broad one. It does not imply maturity, responsibility, wisdom, or class. Think of the term "adult bookstore" for example.

If I was with someone & they lit up a number I'm calling the police! Why? Because they just involved me in an illegal activity that I don't want to be involved in...they need to keep that stuff to themselves! Okay, I think that was more than 2 cents, more like a dime bag!:high:

[Chris]

Acutely Chris, I think you are very intelligent, at least in some things, but to compare studding with getting high, well, thats a little a little off the deep end. I have seen the other side. I lost a very good friend to drugs, we both started smoking pot together, I got caught, got my butt kicked up between my shoulders by my pop. I quit, but he did not get caught, from pot he went to Hash, then to acid. The last time I seen him alive was when he was high on angel dust and trying to kill a cop. I have seen the bad side of smoking pot, regardless of what the experts say, and I have not seen the good, except for pain relief.

I have been involved with EMS for 25 year now, in the time I have come to really hate drugs and alcohol. I live in a small rural area, I have seen to many of my friends killed or hurt by drugs, even the soft ones. Just so you know, as Stairman said, don't look if you don't like...I agree, this is the last time I will be on this thread.

Brian.
Someone, was it you, posted how some teenager got high and crashed his car, ergo pot should be illegal.

I pointed out that there were other reasons teenagers crash cars. Like being irresponsible drivers, not getting enough sleep because they were up studying, not getting enough sleep because they were up partying, being distracted by friends in the car, being distracted by phones, being drunk, etc. And if you were going to outlaw for everyone any possible activity that could ever contribute to a motor vehicle accident then you best start there.

This is not comparing smoking marijuana to studying, this is showing how a sad anecdote is utterly worthless as an evidentiary point in a debate.

[Chris]

From age 13 all the way through University the majority of my associations were drug users. The vast majority of these people preferred pot and most would have said it was a "harmless" habit.

This long span of years gave me a great opportunity to observe the effects and ramifications of their drug use. I can say that 100% of the people I knew who were actively using pot regularly, their lives spiraled "out of control". When I say "out of control" I am not referring to over dose, or life-ending situations, but I did observe a marked lack of judgement when it came to making important decisions. I also notice a lack of forsight. Their perspective was to live today, worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Many of these acquaintences dropped out of high school or college. Today, the ones that have moved on, become successful, and are living well adjusted lives within our framework of society have all, and I repeat ALL, given up their previous usage of pot. Every single one that I have spoken to were all in agreement that it was disrupting their lives.

I have run into a few over the years that refused to give up. Two of them are nomads, one who enjoys a biker lifestyle -- which I am not condemning at all -- but he cannot keep steady relationships. The other moves from place to place living on the street or in "homes". One can play chess at a grandmaster level, but instead works at a restaurant so that he can afford his after-work habits.

As for me, I spent over 12 years in constant HEAVY contact with this drug (as well as others) and I never saw an instance where it was beneficial. The best I can say about it, is that it rendered my friends into a bovine jovial state. No they were not harmless to anyone but themselves and their respective futures. I decided early on that I didn't want to change the way my brain functions, so I never indulged nor tried drugs.

Today I am grateful that I never did. I don't need a drug to "open my mind" or "clear my head". I don't need it to relax or expand my reality. There is just too damn much to do to worry about all that esoteric metaphysical pseudo-spiritual BS.

I know that many of you will want to say this is purely anecdotal evidence, but I would have to say that my life experience trumps your theoretical illusions. If you are currently indulging in this lifestyle I think you are most likely maintaining, but certainly not moving forward. It will catch you sooner or later, I have seen it happen every time. I am not speaking of physical ailments, I am talking about your life and where it is going.
None of them OD'd on pot.

And yes, it is anecdotal.

And you're also falling for the cum hoc logical fallacy.

More than 50% of people in this country have used marijuana, including Barack Obama, George W Bush, and Bill Clinton. Most people who use marijuana are normal successful people with no criminal record.

Think of tattoos, what you're saying is pretty much the same thing as saying tattoos ruin lives. Just because lots of criminals have tattoos, does not mean tattoos cause criminal behavior. Lots of normal people have tattoos as well.

So then why, is there a higher incidence of tattoos among criminals? Well, getting a tattoo is somewhat rebellious, and someone who does not respect the laws of society is unlikely to respect the social norms of society either. Criminal behavior does not birth tattoos, and tattoos do not birth criminal behavior. Rather a third issue, lack of respect for authority and need to rebel, creates both.

So, just because people who do not contribute to society smoke weed, does not mean that weed is what makes them not contribute to society. Thats just who they are. Tens of millions of people manage to smoke and NOT ruin their lives.

And in the end, the argument is not whether a substance is good. If we were to legislate health and morality we'd outlaw porn, fast food, alcohol, tobacco, candy bars, high fructose corn syrup, R rated movies, etc.

The argument is whether or not the government should outlaw something and spend billions of dollars fighting something that most of the population does anyway. Especially when the alternative (legalization) should reduce violence, reduce the wallet size of drug dealers and drug cartels, reduce ancilliary criminal behavior tied in with the drug trade (smuggling of other stuff, girls, guns, etc), and provide the country with new tax revenue.

If having it be illegal doesn't stop people from doing it, you might as well try the other option eh?

[Chris]

It wouldn't bother me at all if tobacco in all it's forms were outlawed. The cost to society to provide medical care for the resulting problems tobacco causes far outweighs the benefits that taxation and sales create.

If you use the reverse logic that marijuana should be legalized because the taxes and sales benefit society than you also have to be ready to say where we draw the line. If growing marijuana is okay then how about poppies?

I don't know where you draw the line but I don't think legalizing it is any more prudent than having tobacco legalized. The ONLY reason tobacco remains legal today is because of lobbiests and the money tobacco generates. Forget the medical impact that all of us pay for through taxes.

Anytime you put a foreign substance into your body there has to be a consequence. Certainly, some drugs are necessary for many to maintain health and life. I can certainly see the medical benefits of marijuana. But, for the life of me, I do NOT understand the use of chemicals to alter your mood unless you are under the direct supervision of a doctor.

I don't want to meet a pot-head driving down the road any more than I want to meet a drunk. Sadly, both are out there driving.
I would draw the line at things that are highly chemically addictive, because a chemical dependency can ruin lives, and turn people to violence or prostitution to support their habit (which also leads to violence). And you can grow poppies by the way.

I think the health costs of tobacco smoking are far worse than of pot if pot were to be legalized. I just don't see people smoking 2 packs worth of joints a day, you couldn't and still function. Marijuana is a depressant, nicotine is a stimulant and far more chemically addictive. But taxes should cover it, if they do not, they need to be increased. I would otherwise agree with making tobacco illegal, but so long as the tax on it covers the cost of healthcare, I'm fine with it.

Also, it isn't a zero sum game. Smokers die younger thus using up less SS and Medicare dollars, that is a savings for other taxpayers beyond health costs.

Also, you have to figure in the cost of law enforcement and incarceration and the cost of the violence prohibition brings now, vs the cost of healthcare.

[grundle]

None of them OD'd on pot.

And yes, it is anecdotal.

And you're also falling for the cum hoc logical fallacy.

More than 50% of people in this country have used marijuana, including Barack Obama, George W Bush, and Bill Clinton. Most people who use marijuana are normal successful people with no criminal record.

Think of tattoos, what you're saying is pretty much the same thing as saying tattoos ruin lives. Just because lots of criminals have tattoos, does not mean tattoos cause criminal behavior. Lots of normal people have tattoos as well.

So then why, is there a higher incidence of tattoos among criminals? Well, getting a tattoo is somewhat rebellious, and someone who does not respect the laws of society is unlikely to respect the social norms of society either. Criminal behavior does not birth tattoos, and tattoos do not birth criminal behavior. Rather a third issue, lack of respect for authority and need to rebel, creates both.

So, just because people who do not contribute to society smoke weed, does not mean that weed is what makes them not contribute to society. Thats just who they are. Tens of millions of people manage to smoke and NOT ruin their lives.

And in the end, the argument is not whether a substance is good. If we were to legislate health and morality we'd outlaw porn, fast food, alcohol, tobacco, candy bars, high fructose corn syrup, R rated movies, etc.

The argument is whether or not the government should outlaw something and spend billions of dollars fighting something that most of the population does anyway. Especially when the alternative (legalization) should reduce violence, reduce the wallet size of drug dealers and drug cartels, reduce ancilliary criminal behavior tied in with the drug trade (smuggling of other stuff, girls, guns, etc), and provide the country with new tax revenue.

If having it be illegal doesn't stop people from doing it, you might as well try the other option eh?

You have used the classic tactic of ignoring the entire point of my argument so that you can slide your worthless points in. The main point, and you can go back and read it I don't mind, is that those who kept going made a ruin of their lives. Those that quit, although suffering set-backs, were able to move on and achieve a level of success.

Endorsing it because Obama, Bush, or Clinton did it does nothing for your argument. Especially since all 3 gave it up and moved on (proving my argument not yours).

I am not arguing that Pot will kill you. I stated that clearly, so I don't know why you brought up overdosing. I was only stating that those who cling to it will suffer setbacks in the progress of their lives. Some people are happy with that, and want it that way. They are satisfied with their chemical substitute for happiness. If that is the way they want it so be it, but that is no reason to "legalize".

Where do you get the "more than 50% statistic"? That is a pretty sweeping statement. You have been harping on people to provide cited sources, so I would ask you to do that for this figure.

I like that you conveniently label my entire argument as "cum hoc" logical fallacy. According to your label then we should also label our entire psychological infrastructure as "cum hoc" because it is based on the observations of certain behaviors over time with conclusions drawn as a direct result. I already know that this would just degenerate to a stratified "intellectual" argument where my lack of credentials and lack of scientific degree disqualifies any of my personal observations as non-scientific. There is a free counterpoint for you.

Let us consider a court of law where these types of observational accounts are allowed. This is known as a witness. I merely gave you a witness of what I saw. Now I know that there is ALWAYS an exception to the rule and most people who think they are good at debating will always point to the exception as their trump card.

What I am saying is that in the general case, which follows my observations and life-experience over a 12 year span is what almost everyone will fall into. Remember the premise once again. If you cling to it, it will limit you. If you move on you can overcome and achieve success of some level. I think that people will always go much farther when they do not have things holding them back.

This is what I have lived, this is what I have seen. Go ahead and cite your scientific journals, theoretical nonsense that you haven't witnessed yourself, because the truth is -- You just got served, I win you lose and its over. That was just an H-bomb I dropped on you. Its good to be king :noway: :lol:

[Chris]

Oh, and remember. Marijuana isn't a carcinogen. Smoke is still smoke, but not smoking uses of marijuana won't hurt you (tea, brownies, etc). Whereas smokeless tobacco will still cause things like mouth or throat cancer. Even with smoking, recent studies do not show a link between marijuana smoking and lung cancer (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1277837). They aren't sure why, perhaps it could be because compounds in marijuana can kill cancer cells, so maybe that outweighs the bad from the smoke.

[Chris]

You have used the classic tactic of ignoring the entire point of my argument so that you can slide your worthless points in. The main point, and you can go back and read it I don't mind, is that those who kept going made a ruin of their lives. Those that quit, although suffering set-backs, were able to move on and achieve a level of success.

Endorsing it because Obama, Bush, or Clinton did it does nothing for your argument. Especially since all 3 gave it up and moved on (proving my argument not yours).

I am not arguing that Pot will kill you. I stated that clearly, so I don't know why you brought up overdosing. I was only stating that those who cling to it will suffer setbacks in the progress of their lives. Some people are happy with that, and want it that way. They are satisfied with their chemical substitute for happiness. If that is the way they want it so be it, but that is no reason to "legalize".

Where do you get the "more than 50% statistic"? That is a pretty sweeping statement. You have been harping on people to provide cited sources, so I would ask you to do that for this figure.

I like that you conveniently label my entire argument as "cum hoc" logical fallacy. According to your label then we should also label our entire psychological infrastructure as "cum hoc" because it is based on the observations of certain behaviors over time with conclusions drawn as a direct result. I already know that this would just degenerate to a stratified "intellectual" argument where my lack of credentials and lack of scientific degree disqualifies any of my personal observations as non-scientific. There is a free counterpoint for you.

Let us consider a court of law where these types of observational accounts are allowed. This is known as a witness. I merely gave you a witness of what I saw. Now I know that there is ALWAYS an exception to the rule and most people who think they are good at debating will always point to the exception as their trump card.

What I am saying is that in the general case, which follows my observations and life-experience over a 12 year span is what almost everyone will fall into. Remember the premise once again. If you cling to it, it will limit you. If you move on you can overcome and achieve success of some level. I think that people will always go much farther when they do not have things holding them back.

This is what I have lived, this is what I have seen. Go ahead and cite your scientific journals, theoretical nonsense that you haven't witnessed yourself, because the truth is -- You just got served, I win you lose and its over. That was just an H-bomb I dropped on you. Its good to be king :noway: :lol:
Um, no. You're just looking more and more unintelligent. Peer reviewed scientific research beats your stories from the hood.

You're making broad generalizations and arbitrary assigning cause and affect based on the life story of a couple of nitwits you know. And since you apparently think that that is superior, there is no way to contradict you. I don't know your nitwit friends, since they are apparently the standard for this issue, I can't argue this topic with you.

I'll stick to my scientific research.

As for the 50% thing, that statistic is fairly common, google around you'll find lots of mentions, this one here says 83 million people.

http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/marijuana/a/marijuana10.htm

This one says 50% of all baby boomers.

https://www.personalmd.com/news/a1998020508.shtml

PS, not everyone who smokes marijuana has a ****ty life, is dumb, or is unsuccessful. Anymore than not everyone who drinks alcohol is a deadbeat wifebeating alcoholic.

Ya sure, you know, maybe someone has a story about an alcoholic who let alcohol ruin his life, his job, his marriage. But then he went to AA and got clean and turned his life around. Does that anecdote, now matter how it is "served", mean that everyone who takes a drink of beer or wine has a problem, is irresponsible, is going to ruin their life? Etc etc etc?

I think not. A person of low quality is going to have a ****ty life regardless, and a person of high quality can have a great life no matter if they wanted to smoke, or drink, or both, maybe even at the same time.

[grundle]

Um, no. You're just looking more and more unintelligent. Peer reviewed scientific research beats your stories from the hood.

You're making broad generalizations and arbitrary assigning cause and affect based on the life story of a couple of nitwits you know. And since you apparently think that that is superior, there is no way to contradict you. I don't know your nitwit friends, since they are apparently the standard for this issue, I can't argue this topic with you.

I'll stick to my scientific research.

As for the 50% thing, that statistic is fairly common, google around you'll find lots of mentions, this one here says 83 million people.

http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/marijuana/a/marijuana10.htm

This one says 50% of all baby boomers.

https://www.personalmd.com/news/a1998020508.shtml

PS, not everyone who smokes marijuana has a ****ty life, is dumb, or is unsuccessful. Anymore than not everyone who drinks alcohol is a deadbeat wifebeating alcoholic.

Ya sure, you know, maybe someone has a story about an alcoholic who let alcohol ruin his life, his job, his marriage. But then he went to AA and got clean and turned his life around. Does that anecdote, now matter how it is "served", mean that everyone who takes a drink of beer or wine has a problem, is irresponsible, is going to ruin their life? Etc etc etc?

I think not. A person of low quality is going to have a ****ty life regardless, and a person of high quality can have a great life no matter if they wanted to smoke, or drink, or both, maybe even at the same time.

Chris, this isn't good enough. Once you have an H-Bomb dropped on you there is no coming back.

Be glad I put you out of your misery with the nuke, because the arsenic I put in the post before that was only giving you a slow and painful death, but I am a kind and benevolent guy. You should be thanking me, seriously.

[Chris]

Flaming, ie posting insults and personal attacks with no bearing on the topic at hand is against forum policy.

Doing so with absolutely nothing substantial in your post to hide it, is dumb.

Doing so to the admin is really dumb.

Remember, it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

[Nativedude]

Pal334 wrote:"I guess I rank as a "hater", is illegal here, and is not conducive to rational thought (nor does excessive use of alcohol) while operating machinery or making important decisions. I do not presume to comment on your choices . I do know my choice is zero tolerance for that and intoxication, one strike and you are out. That is my opinion"

I completely agree with Pal on this one!


Hopeak wrote:"......If you inhale anything other than pure fresh air your a fool in my book. And this includes inhaling Smog, Gasoline fumes, Paint fumes, Anything, Cigarettes, Pot, anything. But them I think people are foolish to live where the water or air is unpure..........."

I completely agree with Hopeak on this point too!


Riverrat wrote:"...burn out more brain cells and ten times as hard as cigarettes on your lungs..."

BINGO! So True.


Wildography wrote:". . .doesn't seem to be much point in it... as pointed out above: its illegal, makes you just want to "sit on a couch", its hard on your lungs, a failed drug test can make you lose your job, the high - in my opinion - is not as good as a good "buzz" from alcohol, and it causes a person to not think clearly and efficiently. . . ."

BINGO. . . .Again!


BicycleRider wrote:[b][i]". . .For me it seemed to have made life more clear, Its hard to put it into words, but my thinking is actually more straightforward now. I don't look at life as a challenge, I look at it as an experience."


BicycleRider wrote:". . .It feels good to clear your head every now then."

If you really want to clear your head, try taking a long walk in the woods. Smelling the fresh air (which doesn't damage your lungs) and I bet you'll feel much better than after toking a fatty!?

I don't believe it is the pot making you think more clearly. I think it the fact the you are maturing. It happens to all of us (well some of us), the people whom continue to "toke", as it were, as the get older (and fail to "grow up") are the ones whom don't, care to or want to, grow up and/or face reality.

Saying pot "clears my head" is the same as when drinkers say: "i drive much better after a few drinks"

It's not that they think more clearly (pot smokers) or drive better (drinkers), it just that their brain (or lack of) is so relaxed and their POV is distorted to the point that they really believe they can do these things better. . . .NOT!

And yes there are exceptions to every rule. But in this case the percentage is 1/2% to maybe 1%.

My statements and opinions come from many prior years in the EMS industry.

[nell67]

In my area (not sure if it was state wide,or just the county I lived in at the time) they do/did tax illegal drugs,if a person bought,or otherwise came into possession of any type of drug,they were suposed to go to city hall,and pay taxes on it and get a stamp proving they paid it,if they got caught with the drugs and no stamp,their fines and jail time was increased,funny,they never had anyone willing to come in and pay the tax......

[Chris]

You know, I was thinking last night, pot is very much like alcohol.

There are people who drink every day and they have a problem. But the rest of us who might just drink once a week or on special occassions do not have a problem, and in fact there have been shown to be health benefits of moderate alcohol use (red wine, etc).

There are some people who also do nothing all day but eat junk food and watch TV. Those people have a problem.

There are probably some people who do nothing but go to the casino and play slots all day, those people have a problem.

There are probably some people who do nothing but look at Internet porn all day, those people have a problem too.

I don't think anyone would claim that it is okay to smoke pot all day long, or daily, or to do it at work, or to let it come in the way of work, or family. The same as alcohol, bad eating habits and general slothfulness, gambling, or porn.

But does that mean it should be illegal? Some people have problems with obesity, but junk food and daytime TV are not illegal. Some people have problems with alcohol, but that is not illegal. Some people have problems with gambling, but that is not illegal. And some people have problems with porn, also, not illegal.

If someone wants to sit in their backyard in the summer on a saturday afternoon after mowing the lawn and smoke a joint, should that be illegal? If someone wants to go on vacation to a beach and lay out and smoke should that be illegal?

There are many things in life that are bad for you, and most people through a combination of common sense, will power, and responsibility manage to NOT to overindulge. The fact that there are those out there without such attributes does not mean that something needs to be illegal.

Next time you have a glass of wine, or beer, or say next time you want to brew your own at home. Think, what if people lobbied to make that illegal for you, just because some people didn't know when to say when?

[Sarge47]

Here's what I know:
1.) I agree with Chris' post about over-indulgent people.
2.) You don't call the administrator an "Idiot" for expressing an opinion
different than your own.
3.) Smoking pot, regardless of legality, is a "moral" issue; & you can't
legislate morality.
4.) The people that Chris describes in the above post are the majority,
They're "sheeple" who subscribe to the "if it feels good do it" philosophy
& will be in trouble given TEOTWAWKI. The members on here are more
"self-sustaining" & are in the minority.
5.) The laws are enacted to both enable big corporations to make big $$,
and to protect the majority from themselves.
6.) Chris is an American, & therefore has the right to his opinion, no
matter how unpopular that may be. (Unless, of course, he says it's ok to
drink urine straight from the bladder, then we'll have a "donnybrook".)
You may disagree with him on his "pot" views,, I do, but go after the
post not the poster! I've disagreed with Remy more times than I can
count yet it's his opinions I'm fighting, not him! There's a difference.:3:
7.) I'll never drink cow-urine.
8.) I'll never warm up to TheFreakinBear...any questions? Remarks?

[klkak]

I'm not going to be sharing my camp with a "pot head"

[Nativedude]

Alpine_Sapper wrote:So your statements and opinions come from purely anecdotal evidence. Duly noted. Next?

No Alpine, not from anecdotal evidence. From seeing auto accidents caused by people that were high from smoking pot or the guy (43 y.o.) bungee jumping off a bridge and smacking his head on the rocks below. Why? Because he was "high" (stoned) and didn't pay attention to the fact that the bungee cord was too long for the bridge he jumped off or the guy (56 y.o.) that was so stoned he passed out in the bonfire behind his house and died from the 3rd degree burns over 95% of his body. . .shall I continue??

These are just a few of the actual EMS calls that I PERSONALLY responded to! So I think that I have a very poignant point of view on the subject!?


Klkak wrote: I'm not going to be sharing my camp with a "pot head"

Completely agree Klkak

[ClayPick]

Making a blanket assumption about a person’s character based on nothing more than entrenched ideology to me has little merit, but whatever floats your boat.

[Ken]

I've tried to stay away from this thread for the most part, but ........

For those of you who choose to smoke weed (or drink alcohol to get a buzz on) I make no judgments about your personal character or your morals. I merely offer suggestions and observations based upon my own life experiences:

If your lifestyle , obligations, and occupation allow you to choose to smoke, there's a time and a place.

For me, as an adult such a time and place never existed. At 18, I was a volunteer member of our local EMA rescue team. We responded to every water rescue/recovery on our shoreline, every major fire and accident, haz-mat incidents, many medical emergencies, etc. We were on call 24/7. This responsibility just wasn't consistent with having a buzz on.

At 22, I was named the EMA Director for my Town, and soon after became Special Legal Assistant to the state EMA Director. Again, on call 24/7. I kinda' felt that I should be ready to respond whenever the need arose. You see, we coordinated and directed every local department and provided our own teams of "professional volunteers" in emergencies. Needed a straight head for that. I can't even remember ever having more than two beers in one day.

In my off time, I spent alot of time on the ocean or in the White Mountains. I didn't need the embarassment of screwing up in either place because I was buzzed. I also didn't want to ever place my colleagues in the rescue service at risk because of my own foolish actions.

I was also in school at the time. I didn't want to do a reading assignment if all I would see on the page was "psor oubp pw8e 8byo7 qob;m jiouh ygvi."

When I became a criminal defense lawyer, I was amazed at how many "after-hours" calls I received - many of which required me to go to local police stations to meet clients. Not a good time or place to be with a buzz on. BTW - I was still in charge of EMA. We responded to incidents on a regular basis. If I went into the water with my dive team, or directed an emergency evacuation, I was glad I had a clear head at the time.

In my late 20's, I became a dad for the first time. Two more kids after that. Damn, if those kids didn't get sick or hurt on a fairly regular basis. I kinda' felt that it was my responsibility to be 100% ready to deal with such matters. Always.

In my early 30's, I left EMA because I was elected as the chief executive officer in my community. Still a dad and still a lawyer. Get my point here?

If you choose to party - that's your decision. I make no judgments. Unless you render yourself incapable of meeting urgent responsibilities that may arise with your children, your job, or in other areas of your life.

Oh yeah. I'd also have a problem if you operated a vehicle or held a firearm if you weren't 100% sober or straight. Same would go if you ever placed others at risk of any danger or any type of harm as a result of your actions.

Otherwise, if you wanna' smoke a bone in your own backyard at night with a few friends, okay - go for it. No judgments here. Just don't allow anyone to drive away all buzzed out.

Just my two cents.

[Chris]

No Alpine, not from anecdotal evidence. From seeing auto accidents caused by people that were high from smoking pot or the guy (43 y.o.) bungee jumping off a bridge and smacking his head on the rocks below. Why? Because he was "high" (stoned) and didn't pay attention to the fact that the bungee cord was too long for the bridge he jumped off or the guy (56 y.o.) that was so stoned he passed out in the bonfire behind his house and died from the 3rd degree burns over 95% of his body. . .shall I continue??

These are just a few of the actual EMS calls that I PERSONALLY responded to! So I think that I have a very poignant point of view on the subject!?



Completely agree Klkak
That sir, is the very definition of anecdotal.

[Rick]

I would venture a guess that not one single person on this forum has ever participate in a scientific evaluation of any form of cannibis and it's affects on humans. My guess is everyone here finds a study that supports their personal beliefs and say, "Aha! Here is my evidence!" Everyone just spouts what they want the end game to be. So be it. I hereby proclaim everyone a winner. Have a cozy day.

[klkak]

I think we have discussed this subject sufficiently.

[crashdive123]

I think we have discussed this subject sufficiently.

Yeah, but that won't stop us.:splat:

[Nativedude]

Chris wrote:That sir, is the very definition of anecdotal.

Yes Chris, I know it is. I was trying to see if the "clear-headed thinkers" would catch that? :chair: :tongue_smilie:

[Sarge47]

So Chris, can we lock this "bad boy" down now? Nobody's gonna agree with anybody else!:3:

[laughingbeetle]

Agree to disagree...

[Styric]

Wow! This thread is stressful...it's making me think too much...pass me that doobie! I NEED TO CLEAR MY HEAD! That plant grows and gets smoked with or without our opinions. Someone please post something about its uses in a survival situation or is the only information going to be about who or who does not smoke it? I saw one post about relief from insect bites. I don't care about what science says. They will find a way to charge us for that research anyway. If the world starts to fall apart and I need to be self reliant I will not give a sh** about what the law says. That does not mean that I would smoke it. It means that if it can provide other uses then it will be nice to know what it can do for you.

I think we all need a quick hike to clear our heads.

[RBB]

Where I come from smoking pot is common thing, Its been said that there is more pot in Thunder Bay, ON then the infamous pot smoking capital Vancouver, BC. I would not doubt that for a second, I even have on some occasions smoked pot with my highschool teachers. Theres not many people who don't do it, including the older crowd.

Well, I guess that just goes to show you.

[Dennis K.]

That sir, is the very definition of anecdotal.

RE: - Your conversation w/ an emergency responder.

This forum SCREAMS that real experience trumps what you read on the internet. Why would his field experience not be relevant?

I suppose you could say that those examples were of stupid people behaving stupidly, and that their level of impairment was just coincidental. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that "Pot Made 'Em Do It." But I do think that many reasonable people would see a definite connection between drug use and the tragedies described.

[bulrush]

In all seriousness, I find that often people who do drugs or alcohol to excess, are trying to get away from their 1) boring or 2) very painful, life. I don't think chemical escapism is helpful, especially from a bodily health standpoint.

I really wonder if many of these people seeking chemical escapism or emotional pain management simply chose pot as their chemical of choice.

How about trying a hobby instead of drugs? I don't do drugs myself, and I hope people will respect that. I don't like to do narcotic painkillers but there have been times when I could not do without them. I got off them ASAP.

When my life gets a bit too boring, I often try a new hobby.

[BicycleRider]

I really enjoyed reading your post, Ken. It sounds like you've done some interesting stuff in your time.




But honestly? Falling in bonfires, distorted vision, come on... That doesn't sound like a high off Marijuana, more like alcohol.


I didn't want to do a reading assignment if all I would see on the page was "psor oubp pw8e 8byo7 qob;m jiouh ygvi."

[Chris]

RE: - Your conversation w/ an emergency responder.

This forum SCREAMS that real experience trumps what you read on the internet. Why would his field experience not be relevant?

I suppose you could say that those examples were of stupid people behaving stupidly, and that their level of impairment was just coincidental. I don't think any reasonable person would claim that "Pot Made 'Em Do It." But I do think that many reasonable people would see a definite connection between drug use and the tragedies described.
An anecdote is a personal story.

Anecdotal evidence is defined as using a personal story to make a broad generalization.

To make a clear analogy. Most of the alcohol consumers a first responder will be in contact with are thsoe who are just done something really stupid. Does this mean all alcohol consumers are really stupid, or that the substance should be made illegal?

The typical motorist a police officer will come in contact with is going to be someone who isn't a great driver. Does this mean all people are bad drivers?

Making such assumptions is wrong, and it is why using anecdotal evidence is wrong. The fact is, a first responder will never have any contact with a responsible marijuana smoker, because a responsible marijuana smoker will never need to be served by a first responder. A first responder thinking all marijuana use is bad and irresponsible because that is all he sees is like a doctor thinking everyone in the world is sick because that is all he sees. Because of the job that kind of jaded attitude can be forgiven, but it will also be corrected.

Also, when someone mentions a study, this isn't just "something read on the Internet." This is someone (actually, usually a team) with a graduate degree working at a university, foundation, hospital, or government institute, doing testing that rigorously follows the scientific method, is peer reviewed, fully documented, and repeatable.

Just because I didn't personally do the experiment doesn't mean that the experiment isn't credible or that I shouldn't use it. If scientists discover a new star am I unable to mention it because I didn't personally look through the telescope?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

dont mind wanderin in after the boss man... I think that a lot of people are irresponsible, no matter what they have been smoking,(or drinking)!

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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