As TSHsTF

[Durlaburban]

When time dwindles down toward the event we are all preping to survive a series of events will happen. If this event is forcast mass histaria and political firestorms will rage. people may stop going to work. core systems of civilization will just stop. at this time groups may form. with mob mentalities destroying and killing. and even if the event never happens. say the meteroite misses or the missle never gets launched. things will be so messed up after we will have to endure. never to go back to normal anyway.

but i degress. how will you survive the lead up to TSHTF. it may be harder doing that than acctually living after. ive heard many of you talking about the "Take with guns!" kind of people. in the lead up they will rule so i beleive it best that we shall all arm for this particular event. the lead up could be months and mabey years. could you endure rovaging groups desperate for YOUR resorces?

[Ole WV Coot]

Not trying to be nasty but .............to each his own said the farmer as he kissed his pig, that ain't normal either.

[Durlaburban]

lol.... to each his own then.

[Fletcher]

Hey Bragg, how have you been?

[Tony uk]

Hey Bragg, how have you been?

loll I was just thinking that :p

[Rick]

Seriously? A good nap might be in order. If they tell us where this is going to happen and I'm close enough I might pull up a chair and watch. I mean, think of the stories I could tell my grandkids! Unless it's Zombies. They are just too anti-social for my tastes. They're all "blah, blah, eat your brains, blah blah, eat your brains". Get's kinda old pretty quick.

[klkak]

Speaking of "Zombies". Does anyone have a recipe for turning hollow point bullets into little bombs? I think it would be cool to shot them in the head and see their heads explode!

[Rick]

Try some of the Hydrogen Peroxide Canid cooks up. Just be very careful how you store it..apparently.

Of course, if it goes off before it reaches the Zombie it could come back to you as quick as it left. It would be like a backwards rocket. Man! This whole thing is getting way too complicated.

Talk to Canid.

[SARKY]

Look, you are in Vermont, there is plenty of wilderness available to lose yourself/selves in. Stock up on seeds(for a garden) non perishables (grains and such) game is a plenty so no worries there. Cache as much as you can. And don't forget lots and lots of ammo, and get it now, the prices keep going up.

[Rick]

Sorry, Durlaburban. I made light of your post. Look, pick a disaster. Anything you want. What's the chances of it happening? Your guess is as good as mine. All I know is I try to figure out what is most likely to impact me and my family and prepare for it. Am I right? Who knows. But it seems to me that I'm far more likely to encounter a fire or a tornado or a winter storm without power than I am economic collapse or any of the items you posted.

As for mob mentality, I keep pointing to New Orleans because it was a classic case of SHTF. Were there areas of mob rule. Sure. Was it most of the city? No. Isn't that the case today? There are places I won't go in any city just because of mob rule. And New Orleans settled down sooner than later. A surprise to even me and I'm an eternal optomist.

So try to figure out what is most likely to impact you and your family based on where you live and build your "defenses" toward that. Once you feel like those basis are covered then branch out to those jeapordies that are less likely to happen and so on until all your bases are covered....or as covered as they can be. You never know what zombies are gonna do.

[crashdive123]

then branch out to those jeapordies that are less likely to happen Alex - I'll take The End Of The World As We Know It for $800.


Sorry Durlaburban - I couldn't resist. Yeah - what Rick said. Figure out what are the most likely threats you will face, figure out what you will need to prepare for those threats and then plan accordingly. That's why many are here.

[Amazon]

Each of us prepares to our fullest in our on way . What will happen is conjecture for now.
Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Survival, isn't just the physical preparation
you have to work on your emotional prep. If the roving hordes are part of it I will fight with all I have in me.

[Rick]

I've kept my fingers still as long as I can stand it. Based on your avatar, you have all the available weapons you will ever need. (he said jokingly):D:eek:

[crashdive123]

Ya know - I was tempted, but said - nope, not gonna say it.:D

[FVR]

Human nature will take care of the roving bands or thieves. How? Communities will band together for protection. This is shown throughout time. I believe that people are generally good, so with this thinking, good people will band together to fight bad.

And as you know, Good always wins.

There are alot more Good people than bad. It really pisses the bad people off when the good bond together to resist and fight. Don't forget, even if the sheot hits the fan, there will be some sort of government.

Problem, if the government is the band of thieves.

[Amazon]

I've kept my fingers still as long as I can stand it. Based on your avatar, you have all the available weapons you will ever need. (he said jokingly):D:eek:

Rick and Crashdive Y'all behave LOL!!!

[crashdive123]

Me? But I..... I didn't..... It was.... aw shucks.

[SARKY]

remy....
"I will not go quietly into that cold good night"

[Alpine_Sapper]

I believe that people are generally good, so with this thinking, good people will band together to fight bad.


And there is one flaw in your thinking. People are only good because they are too timid not to be or their are consequences for not being so. Sure, you get a few heroes, but for the most part, human kind is a self-serving entity that will only work together so far as to get the goal accomplished (maybe) before the in-fighting and bickering takes it apart at the seams. Sure, a close knit team such as a spec-ops fire team can buck the odds, but how long has that team been training together? How many people banded together to stop the roving gangs in Katrina? How many civilians were using their firearms to stop the rapes happening in the dome? How many heroes did you hear about during that whole catastrophe?

What's that? I didn't go on long enough? I'm sure the victims that were raped or murdered would be thrilled to hear that if the situation had just carried on another two weeks a leader would have emerged who was charismatic enough to band the people together, to give them a new hope, to inspire and motivate them to be good to one another....

In a real true SHTF scenario, all a larger group means is it takes a better planned ambush to take you out and steal your ****.

[crashdive123]

And there is one flaw in your thinking. People are only good because they are too timid not to be or their are consequences for not being so. Sure, you get a few heroes, but for the most part, human kind is a self-serving entity that will only work together so far as to get the goal accomplished (maybe) before the in-fighting and bickering takes it apart at the seams. Sure, a close knit team such as a spec-ops fire team can buck the odds, but how long has that team been training together? How many people banded together to stop the roving gangs in Katrina? How many civilians were using their firearms to stop the rapes happening in the dome? How many heroes did you hear about during that whole catastrophe?

What's that? I didn't go on long enough? I'm sure the victims that were raped or murdered would be thrilled to hear that if the situation had just carried on another two weeks a leader would have emerged who was charismatic enough to band the people together, to give them a new hope, to inspire and motivate them to be good to one another....

In a real true SHTF scenario, all a larger group means is it takes a better planned ambush to take you out and steal your ****.

I've got to disagree. People have banded together ever since there were people. Tribes, villages, towns, cities, counties, states, provinces...... Why? IMO it is because they felt that it would be more productive as a group to accomplish things - survival included.

As far as your assessment of the Superdome and things that happened WTSHTF in New Orleans - it may not have been as dire as you suggest. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002520986_katmyth26.html .....and the looting, and murders have stopped...well at least to the levels they were at before Katrina.

[FVR]

As far as Katrina, Alpine, you fall victim of the propaganda machine that gets their rocks off spreading bad news and making it worse. Just for those like you.

Was there chaos, yes, of course it was a natural disaster. Are there always going to be those that take advantage of the situation, of course. They will come as individuals and small bands of thugs.

All throughout history there have been these types of terroristic gangs. And what do the good Americans always do............we take them on, face to face, proving that good conquers evil.


I think that there are these so called survivalist that mentally masturbate about the end of days. If that is their thing, great. If they believe that taking by force will allow them to continue their way of life, they are wrong. History has shown that even sucj great evils like the Nazi's will be destroyed.

[Rick]

AP - I'm with Frank and Crash. I really do believe good wins out over evil. It may not be in the time line that we want but every evil regime falls sooner or later. I think folks are inherently good and only a small percentage are the bad guys. Just my thoughts.

[Rick]

No argument with anything you said, Remy. I would just point out that those countries the hold human dignity aloft (or reasonably so...US, Australia, Canada, Great Britain, etc) seem to continue to thrive. Those regimes that believe only in power, sooner or later, drop by the way side or are overpowered by those that they have trudged on and they are generally short lived (in comparison).



Idi Amin (Uganda: 1971-80)
Ion Antonescu (Romania: 1940-44)
Ataturk (Turkey: 1920-38)
Francisco Franco (Spain: 1939-75)
Gheoghe Gheorghiu-Dej (Romania: 1945-65)
Yakubu Gowon (Nigeria: 1966-76)
Radovan Karadzic (Serbian Bosnia: 1991-96)
Babrac Kemal (Afghanistan: 1979-87)
Le Duan (Vietnam: 1976-86)
Haile Mengistu (Ethiopia: 1974-91)
Benito Mussolini (Italy: 1922-43)
Ante Pavelic (Croatia: 1941-45)
Antonio de Salazar (Portugal: 1932-68)
Hadji Suharto (Indonesia: 1967-97)
Tito (Yugoslavia: 1945-80)

[SARKY]

Rick,
You forgot PolPot, Stalin, and Mao.
Remy,
I thought I was a cynic! There were whole neighborhoods in New Orleans that banded together to protect themselves from the roving bands of vermin. That is why it is important to feel out the people you want in your group NOW! and start forming your group now. It doesn't have to start with "we are banding together in case the world ends" in fact put your group together to support each other in case of natural disasters. If the SHTF most of your group will be of a proper mind set to deal with it.

[Tony uk]

Wow...hold on there cowboy...
Countries that hold human dignity aloft ?
Great Britain ? lolllllllllllllll

Who's side were you on during the Falkland ?
Who's side are you on right now concerning Northern Ireland ?
... "hold human dignity aloft" might be a little subjective...

Dammm you know alot Remy :p

[Alpine_Sapper]

As far as Katrina, Alpine, you fall victim of the propaganda machine that gets their rocks off spreading bad news and making it worse. Just for those like you.


Actually, I'm originally from Louisiana, so I had family and friends there when it happened. I also live right next door, and have met many katrina refugees since that all had similar stories to my friends/family. No propoganda here. Sure, it's not first hand experience, but I've heard enough of the reality of the situation to know the heroes were few and far between.

As for grouping up, regardless of what the rest of the sheep do, I've always had a close knit pack around me ( wife, kids, etc.). As far as I'm concerned, the herd can go to hell. I'm a wolf, not a effin shepherd. If you guys wanna go play cap'n save-a-ho, go right ahead. For me, I'm looking after the pack.

[SARKY]

come on guys... Haven't you heard the phrase "We can hang together or we can each hang seperately"? Dates back to the revolutionary war. I'm not saying that you should run around endangering yourself trying to save every soul. Damm even SuperMan can't do that.And that the comics, where anything is possible. What I am saying is that a small group of like minded people stands a better chance of surviving the vermin outbreak than an individual.

[crashdive123]

come on guys... Haven't you heard the phrase "We can hang together or we can each hang seperately"? Dates back to the revolutionary war. I'm not saying that you should run around endangering yourself trying to save every soul. Damm even SuperMan can't do that.And that the comics, where anything is possible. What I am saying is that a small group of like minded people stands a better chance of surviving the vermin outbreak than an individual.

Ditto. Well said.

[FVR]

Alpine,

I had friends there also, and they have told me that what the media printed was an exageration.

I'm glad you have your little world, good for you. I don't understand the cap'n save a ho comment.

If you are so independant, why are you here? You are here because this is the place where like minded persons like yourself can exchange ideas and learn new things.

The pack, well packs range in size. If you are happy with your little pack, good for you. Some may want a slightly larger pack, others may want a bn size pack.

You know, your wolf packs were almost killed off to extinction at one point.

[klkak]

Alpine,

I had friends there also, and they have told me that what the media printed was an exageration.

I'm glad you have your little world, good for you. I don't understand the cap'n save a ho comment.

If you are so independant, why are you here? You are here because this is the place where like minded persons like yourself can exchange ideas and learn new things.

The pack, well packs range in size. If you are happy with your little pack, good for you. Some may want a slightly larger pack, others may want a bn size pack.

You know, your wolf packs were almost killed off to extinction at one point.

The "Captain save a hoe" comment is from an old song by a rap group called "E40".

I wonder if he realizes that every pack of wolves has two "shepherd's" and the rest of the pack are in essence sheep following their direction.

[Alpine_Sapper]

The "Captain save a hoe" comment is from an old song by a rap group called "E40".

I wonder if he realizes that every pack of wolves has two "shepherd's" and the rest of the pack are in essence sheep following their direction.

Actually, the "cap'n save-a-ho" comment was a reference to 12-step recovery, something that's been around LONG before e40. I just see a lot of that mentality here. Trying to save the world and all, expecting that when things go south you'll be part of some large group of people putting **** back together. That's about as realistic as running around in a state of anarchy slicing up the government spooks with your monofilament katana.

And I don't remember ever hearing of a shepherd taking care of a pack of wolves. Sure, the alpha's are the leaders and do some things to support the pack but everyone works together to get the job done, instead of standing around in a herd expecting a handout.

You guys can go give each other warm fuzzy's in a large group if you want, I still say that an individual or a small cohesive unit is much better than "the power of stupid people in large groups". But hey, to each their own.



If you are so independant, why are you here? You are here because this is the place where like minded persons like yourself can exchange ideas and learn new things.


Actually, there aren't to many people on here that think like I do. I left because the vibe of the forum started to change. I came back because I needed to talk to one individual about a particular topic. I stuck around to see if anything has changed. It hasn't. There's till maybe 1 post a month that has some relevance to wilderness survival that's not a rehash of "What should I use, a knife with a fixed blade or a folder?". So, really, I'm here to exchange ideas, and learn new things?

I'd love to think that, say it, or it even be true. But the general lack of new information cause me to say the reason I'm here is because at the point that I'm logged on, I'm stuck in the city and bored out of my head with what I'm supposed to be doing.

[FVR]

Alpine, you are missing the point, you seem to be looking through directional blinders. I do understand the latter part of your post. I check threads but really don't post much anymore, maybe just to be a smartarse now and then.

It's like building bows and primitive skills, you read, do, read and practice some more. You accumulate books, info. and knowledge and then...................what's left?

I also get tired of the constant stupid arse knife questions....But then I remember, it's not all about ME. It's about helping others to get to where I or we are, or getting them to far excede where we or I am.

It seems from your last couple posts that you may have a chip on your shoulder about something. You assume way more than what is being stated.

You seem to think that a group, other than yours will not be successful or will just be made up of a bunch of idiots. I can honestly say that from my time on this board, been awhile, those that have educated themselves and practiced what they preached would not stand or be in any kind of group that you claim they will be.

Not everyone is going to be an expert, he ll the so called experts even have their weakness' and unless they recognize them, they end up looking like arrogant arseholes.


I've enjoyed many of your posts over time, but maybe it is time for you to move on to a survival site that better fits your needs. You may have grown out of this site and where many stay to educate others, something that is not your forte.


Good Luck,

FVR

[Alpine_Sapper]

Alpine, you are missing the point

Probably.


It seems from your last couple posts that you may have a chip on your shoulder about something.


Nah, not really. Sorry if it comes across that way. I've just always been a cynical asshole.



You seem to think that a group, other than yours will not be successful or will just be made up of a bunch of idiots.


I never said that. My bad if I implied it. It all boils down to whether you have faith in human nature or not. If you believe in general that people are good the desire is to band together for strength and support. If you believe that people are generally not trustworthy then typically the desire is to stay solo. I personally tend to expect the worst of people. For explanation see my previous statement.



I can honestly say that from my time on this board, been awhile, those that have educated themselves and practiced what they preached would not stand or be in any kind of group that you claim they will be.


Group dynamics being what they are and all, any group has the potential to self destruct. As for being in "any kind of group that I claim they will be", all I was saying is that the average human will be more concerned with saving their own skin, and while they will typically flock to someone stronger who can offer some protection, rarely will they assist the weak who can't do for themselves.



Not everyone is going to be an expert, he ll the so called experts even have their weakness' and unless they recognize them, they end up looking like arrogant arseholes.


Of course. But the key is to attain a wide enough base of skills that you are self sufficient in any situation without the need of a group. Hence the preference to be alone...




I've enjoyed many of your posts over time, but maybe it is time for you to move on to a survival site that better fits your needs. You may have grown out of this site and where many stay to educate others, something that is not your forte.

Good Luck,

FVR

Are you trying to tell me to get lost? That's so sweet of you. And it's probably good advice.

[klkak]

Alpine has had a "crook in his craw" for me ever since my first day on this forum.

[Geronimo!]

For those of you who believe 2012 will bring Armageddon, I urge you to watch one of the funniest and smartest astrophysicists in the world. Neil Tyson on 2012 (http://fora.tv/2009/02/04/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_The_Pluto_Files#Neil_deGrasse_ Tyson_World_Will_Not_End_in_2012).

I think it's possible for some sort of "s" to hit the "f." Just not during 2012.

[crashdive123]

Nice video....

[SARKY]

Geronimo!
2012 is not about the world ending....it is about the world as we know it ending! That could mean any number of things from a world pandemic, to economic world crisis, to an asteroid hit, to humans evolving (wouldn't that be nice), to the aleins coming to earth to serve man! There are just too many cultures that have 2012 as the year of GREAT change. And the great does not necessarily mean good for us. So being prepared for any contingency is a good thing!

[Geronimo!]

If there was an astrophysicist that could be a comedian, it'd be that guy.

[Dennis K.]

Geronimo!
2012 is not about the world ending....it is about the world as we know it ending! That could mean any number of things from a world pandemic, to economic world crisis, to an asteroid hit, to humans evolving (wouldn't that be nice), to the aleins coming to earth to serve man! There are just too many cultures that have 2012 as the year of GREAT change. And the great does not necessarily mean good for us. So being prepared for any contingency is a good thing!


***NOTE TO SELF***

Prepare for aliens to serve me...

what?!?!?!

It's a cook book?!?!?!?:eek:

[Alpine_Sapper]

Geronimo!
2012 is not about the world ending....it is about the world as we know it ending! That could mean any number of things from a world pandemic, to economic world crisis, to an asteroid hit, to humans evolving (wouldn't that be nice), to the aleins coming to earth to serve man! There are just too many cultures that have 2012 as the year of GREAT change. And the great does not necessarily mean good for us. So being prepared for any contingency is a good thing!

Hopefully it will be great change... in the whitehouse.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Alpine has had a "crook in his craw" for me ever since my first day on this forum.

roflmao. Don't flatter yourself. You're not that important. It's simply a matter of different personalities and viewpoints. We are pretty much 180 degrees different on the spectrum, so we clash. I'm sorry if you took it as me not liking you.

No offense, but I really don't care enough about you to get a "crook in my craw".
Have a spirited discussion? Sure.
Give you a second thought after I hit submit? lol. Hardly.

[bulrush]

The world having a major change in 2012 is not so far-fetched when you look at all the screw-ups Wall Street and Congress have made. Isn't a large part of the US national debt made of bonds? Are a large part of the bonds due in 2012?

[Shaggs]

I can see what alpine is saying

If a situation was to ever arise where the need to move from your home for safety elsewhere, you will only worry about your family and their survival first.

Every situation will lead to a different factors and Alpine believes he will be able to protect his family better with a smaller group of close nit people(assuming neighbors and friends)to just his immediate family.

If your worst case scenario ever happens you wouldn't be able to trust anyone new into your circle.

They could be scouting you out and at night get their friends or kill and steal your stuff themselves.

If martial law ever comes into effect and you have mass genocide like certain articles write. (why does fema have all those caskets?) Then government spies trying to find the refuge camps...

I can see wanting to be cautious but as the saying goes, there is strength in numbers, while at the sametime it's easier to hide, forage, shelter and move fewer people until society calm's down.

I would say while and sometime after you would be lone wolfing it up....months if not years later would I be interested in associating myself with others I do not know

All in a worst case scenario of course.

[SARKY]

***NOTE TO SELF***

Prepare for aliens to serve me...

what?!?!?!

It's a cook book?!?!?!?:eek:

i see that someone got the reference to the Twilight Zone episode!

[Durlaburban]

Wow i love your veiwpoints! learn how to make human sized traps. Those help alot.

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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