Survival chances group vs. alone

[youthpastor]

Hey I'm trying to figure out what way you have a better chance to survive, alone or in a group? And why?

[Alpine_Sapper]

It depends on you, and the group. Skillsets of the individual as well as reactions to emergency situations all will come into effect.

Sometimes, being alone will get you killed.

Sometimes, being in a group can get you killed.

For example; you're in a small group situation where all three of you must paddle ferociously to avoid going over the falls. Teammate A is paddling like their life depends on it. Teammate B is freaking out and screaming "We all gonna DIE!" and flailing the air with their arms hysterically. Chances are, Teammate B is the reason everyone died on the sharp rocks below.

If you are by yourself, you should have a pretty good idea of the skillset and materials availalbe to you, at least one would hope. but what happens if you get into a situation where you need the assistance of another human?

There are no hard and fast rules as to whether being alone or in a group will be better as there are SO many variables. Leaders abilities, followers trust in said leader, etc etc.

[MatthewnOK]

I think it would depend on the group. Example if you had one trained survivalist and several people who didn't know pine from poison ivy it could cause problems. If you have several people who are trained in outdoor skills I think it would be a great boon. One could start a fire, while the other started a shelter, and one set snares/fished etc. Also if each of you had a small survival kit you would have everything doubled/tripled. On the downside all water and food would have to be split up, possible shorting you on calories.

[crashdive123]

Youthpastor - the checklist in this THREAD (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5477) will help others with the answers you are looking for. Letting us know about yourself in the Introduction section may help as well. Thanks

[DOGMAN]

If you get a group of people together that know nothing about a subject...
combined do they know more about the subject or less about the subject, that an individual member does?

[Sarge47]

If you are what your screen name suggests then do the right thing & give us a good intro. I'm not one for finessing, but your question was a poor one. You seldom get the chance to pick the type of true survival situation you'll be in: either solo or alone...it just happens!:cool:

[Dennis K.]

I've been through a number of corporate team-building seminars.
Frequently, groups are presented with some scenario (sometimes a plane crash in a desert, or a shipwreck on an island or stranded in a snow storm), given a list of goals, and a list of materials. Each person individually ranks their supplies and goals, like from 1 to 10. Then, the group discusses the rankings and comes up with a group ranking for the goals and supplies. Then, the individual rankings are scored, and the collective group rankings are scored.
Most often, the group scores are significantly better than the individual scores, indicating that the group would handle an adverse situation better than an individual.

These scenarios do not take into account individual training, individual preparation, local area knowledge, etc. There is also a certain psychology within a group. Just as fire can lift your spirits, an extra person to share the workload can ease the stress of isolation.

Statistically, pairs or small groups fare better than individuals in SAR operations. Some of the SAR guys here can probably weigh in on that.

Ropes courses, Scouts, much military training - is based on team-building and functioning as a unit, because a cohesive unit is usually stronger than the sum of it's parts.

There are, however, certain individuals who do fare better alone.
Alaskan homesteaders - Hopeak - I think he sees more bears per year than humans.
Some of the guides here - probably would be fine.
Even so, I suspect they would prefer to have some other people around in a real survival situation. But, they can speak for themselves.

[ClayPick]

That’s really an open ended question. If there where no whiners in a group, I’d gladly take the advantage of a pool of knowledge.

[bulrush]

I'd rather team up with someone who knew nothing and was willing to learn, than be by myself. Two people can have better ideas than one. Plus you would have someone to ***** to:

"Man, this squirrel you cooked is awful."
"Yep, I try."
"Well you did a great job at messing it up."
"F*** you."
"F*** you too."
(pause)
"I love the outdoors."
"Yup."

[SARKY]

Many years ago when "Survivor" first came on the air I applied to be a contestant. I am very glad I wasn't picked as I think they would have frowned upon me using my fellow contestants (The whiney ones) for either bait or food. (YUM! the other white meat)
2 things I can't stand are whiners and quiters!
When students ask what the first thing they should do in a given situation, I tell them "first wish it wasn't like this, then get on with surviving" .
A good group of people is a pleasure to survive with, even under the most dire of situations where as a horid group of people is torture to survive with even under the most pleasant of situations.

[old soldier]

no doubt about it, a group gives you more protection BUT

I'm a loner all the way and trust no one except my immediate family, I even have my doubts about son and daughter in laws, they also have family whom their loyalties should lay with, but they are married to my sons and daughters and that makes them my responcibility.I wouldn't want to have my family here and in great shape for a couple yrs and then have my DILs family show up with just the rags on their backs, it could be very embarrassing or even bloody, maybe even break up some familys.

I've spent the past couple yrs printing out info for them hoping they will pass it on and start prepping so i figure they have all got the warnings. I don't believe in the old saying, "we'll all starve together" they'll starve before me if they aren't prepared

[MCBushbaby]

Instantly reminded me of the movie Defiance. Band of brothers only three-strong go into the woods to escape the Nazis, but eventually accumulate Jewish survivors and grow into a group of something like >100. With a group you begin having politics, social ordinances, democracy, etc. In a SHTF situation, martial law is always preferred over group dynamics. A large group also attracts more people, good or bad. A larger group gives more resources but also requires more. Large grounds leave a definitive impact where they stay verses a small group that can easily practice evasion. Moving a large ground is slow and noisy progress. Unless you have a group of trained personnel, you're going to be stuck carrying the sick, weak, old, and young. Babies and children will really **** you over if you're trying to evade silently. However if the 'enemy' knows you are somewhere in a wood and are actively pursuing you, a larger group with adequate weaponry has a much better chance of defense than individuals. When evasion fails, a small group will perish but a large group can fight.

However this is evasion. If you are expecting to start a new community - farming, society, all that stuff - then a larger group is a necessity. It's infinitely easier to sow the field and manage the crop with a large group without putting strain on resources. Therefor, it depends on the stage of SHTF: early vs recovery.

[DOGMAN]

I'd say...look at yourself now. Do you surround yourself with people, or do you keep your own council. Go with what works for you. Know yourself and your own strengths and weaknesses.

[vthompson]

If I were by myself, I could make it on my own. But now I have my wife and our grandkids to think about. Awhile back, me and two of my closest neighbors were discussing survival situations, and we all agreed that we each had something different to bring to the table.
I have always hunted and fished and I am pretty wood's savvy. One neighbor is a farmer so he could contribute in that manner. The second neighbor is a retired state policeman and all around jack of all trades. Our wives likewise have different specialties. So I think that we could cover all of our bases.
To me the problem would be from outsiders wanting to join up with us, and then run us short of our provisions.
I guess that we would have a group meeting to see what the outsiders could contribute or be willing to do to help out, and then vote on it.

[SARKY]

vthompson, Pick up and read "Lucifers Hammer" it is a fiction that delves deep into a group of people only allowing into their enclave those people that can contribute something to the group. a very good read

[Rick]

I guess it depends on the circumstances. By nature I think of myself as a group guy. Family for sure. I think we do better with others. We can rely on their strengths. Sort of a synergy thing. I could make it on my own under the right circumstances and in the right location but I think a group thing would be better.

If I were in Sri Lanka I know I'd want Jay around. Hope and/or Klkak in AK. My knowledge base is here in the Midwest so I'd fair pretty well here.

[Fletcher]

Hey I'm trying to figure out what way you have a better chance to survive, alone or in a group? And why?

This question is a difficult one to answer.
The right group the answer is yes a group is the way to go..............
The wrong group the answer is no a group would not be the way to go.........

[bulrush]

I guess what I meant was, your attitude is primary, even if you know nothing about survival. A positive attitude is the primary thing you need to survive. That allows you to learn new things and get through the tough times. Various studies have shown that, whether in an outdoor survival situation, or if you have a medical condition threatening your life (like cancer), people with a positive attitude have a much greater chance for survival.

That said, I won't team up with someone with a bad attitude. If you want to be alone, be alone, but don't muck things up with your attitude.

[BruceZed]

It all depends on the Group and its training level and how cooperative they are. Some groups have defied the odds and lived well in survival situations where others have disintegrated and caused themselves more difficulties by being a group.

[klkak]

Unfortunately I have been in a "Real" survival situation or two. I am ever so glad there were others with me. One of those occasions forever changed my life.

It is writen that:

9. Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their work:

10. If one falls down,
his friend can help him up.
But pity the man who falls
and has no one to help him up!

11. Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?

12. Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.

[Fletcher]

Any group is only as strong as its weakest member

[Stairman]

you will have more belly button lint in a group.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Unfortunately I have been in a "Real" survival situation or two.

You say that like the rest of us haven't...

[Fletcher]

You say that like the rest of us haven't...

No he said that because he has.

[Fletcher]

you will have more belly button lint in a group.

Very true and more dingle berries!!!! That's real man food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[klkak]

You say that like the rest of us haven't...

We are talking about the difference between surviving in a group or alone. If you had read my entire post you would have noticed that I said I was glad there were others with me when we were thrust into a survival situation. Thus my opinion that 2 or more people have a better chance of survival then a lone person.

[fox1]

I have been wrestling with the same question. I am prepared for me and mine but how do you deal with the others that show up needing help? We have a well thought out plan to remain in place if at all possible but how do you turn down family who shows up with nothing and no way of contributing to the supply base? I fear my final answer will land me in hell.

[crashdive123]

I have been wrestling with the same question. I am prepared for me and mine but how do you deal with the others that show up needing help? We have a well thought out plan to remain in place if at all possible but how do you turn down family who shows up with nothing and no way of contributing to the supply base? I fear my final answer will land me in hell.

Are you talking about strangers showing up, or people that you know that did not prepare well enough? If it's the latter, start now with teaching them how and why to prepare. The more of your neighbors and friends that are prepared before an emergency, the less time you will have to spend trying to figure out whom you should trust or not. In my area there are several elderly folks that would need help in some situations. We've started a neighborhood watch program not only to deter crime, but to also get to know each other a little better and share ideas. An example is that a couple of us have prepared window protection (hurricanes) for some of those folks. If it's the former........that's the answer many are searching for.

[Alpine_Sapper]

I have been wrestling with the same question. I am prepared for me and mine but how do you deal with the others that show up needing help? We have a well thought out plan to remain in place if at all possible but how do you turn down family who shows up with nothing and no way of contributing to the supply base?

Plan for extra people. When I was laying back a 3 month supply of food for three family members, I had a 3 month supply for 4 people. At one point, I actually had a 6 month supply for 3 people, so that 3 people could last 3 months and still support any extended family. However, it's really more for redundancy than the off chance that someone would actually be let in. I doubt any of my family would be about travel. Most would hunker down or head for closer relatives.


I fear my final answer will land me in hell.

Not that I care, but aren't the criteria for staying out of hell simply to accept some dude as saviour or something? What does telling someone to get bent, and that they gotta fend for themselves have to do with the afterlife? :)

*shrug* just my $.02

[Alpine_Sapper]

We are talking about the difference between surviving in a group or alone. If you had read my entire post you would have noticed that I said I was glad there were others with me when we were thrust into a survival situation. Thus my opinion that 2 or more people have a better chance of survival then a lone person.

I did read your entire post. And while I don't agree with you, my point is that life is survival, and we've all been through situations that called for us to rely on our ingenuity and adaptability to survive. Most of the time a "Real" survival situation happens because of the failure to do proper planning, proper packing, or failure to follow proper procedure. Trying to make your advice seem more important by proceeding it with "Unfortunately, I have been through a "Real" survival situation" only serves to make it suspect.

[fox1]

I am talking about family. I know some of them will be prepared but will still need help and then some of them are clueless, and yea we have tryed talking to them. My wife and i were talking about his last night and i know from past experiences, ( Hurricanes ) that her family will show up with no supplys and little ambition to be of help. I can and have turned grown adults away but then theres the kids. I try to have enough extras to help but when it comes down to the long haul i dont think i will be willing to sacrifice my wife and kids to some one elses lack of judgement. Like i said this is my burden that i have been dealing with.

p.s
During Hurricane Rita i was prepared for me and mine plus 2 who i knew was coming to hunker down. Woke up the morning before the wind started blowing and there was 11 more there with nothing to there name and no desire to help. As soon as the wind quite blowing i showed them the door but i knew that they would get help from FEMA. But what to do when FEMA does not exist?

[Sarge47]

Anybody know what ever happened to "Youthpastor"? He posted only the one thread, then hasn't been seen since. No intro or info on his profile page.:cool:

[crashdive123]

But what to do when FEMA does not exist?The best plan IMO is to plan for no outside help. If it happens, call it a bonus.

[Nativedude]

If your lost or stranded with a group of people the biggest thing consider is whether they are doers, followers, or the types to just give up and quit. Once you assess that, you'll have the basis for your survival plan of action.

[napoleon_bonaparte]

I say there is a much better chance survival in a group. The faster the work is done, the more art you can make. You have a team that makes the shelters, while a second group makes fire, a third party gets water, and a fourth party goes on a hunt. Look at the example of Indians. They work with a teammate, because both of you will depand on each other. One always look and defend your back. Look at the example of Robin Crusoe. His buddy, a local was his bestfriend.

[crashdive123]

I say there is a much better chance survival in a group. The faster the work is done, the more art you can make. You have a team that makes the shelters, while a second group makes fire, a third party gets water, and a fourth party goes on a hunt. Look at the example of Indians. They work with a teammate, because both of you will depand on each other. One always look and defend your back. Look at the example of Robin Crusoe. His buddy, a local was his bestfriend.

I don't quite understand the art comment, but maybe I would if you'd head over tothe Introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself. Thanks.

[klkak]

Anybody know what ever happened to "Youthpastor"? He posted only the one thread, then hasn't been seen since. No intro or info on his profile page.:cool:

Drive by poster...,

[Ken]

Ah, vendredi...ou la vie sauvage.

Ah, Friday. ..or wild life. I get the Friday - Robinson Crusoe part (although Friday was not capitalized) but what' the connection with wildlife all about?

[Beans]

Wait until you have family in the house with a limited amount of food and a cluesless mom (wife's sister) who keeps trying to raid the pantry because 200 Lb, 14 yrs old Jr is
"Hungry" and whinning. he ate 3 1/2 hours ago just like everyone else.

Verbal disagreement started then Mom and Jr try to get physical trying to get to the stored food.

Two reasonable meals a day isn't apparently enough, when food supply is limited.

A “shut up or get out” solved the problem with the sister-in-law, but caused some discontent with some other family members who then volunteered to give up their food for poor hungry Jr.

When things quieted down and they finally realized the food situation was serious we returned to somewhat normal condition.

BTW: Jr doesn’t have medical problem and he lost 15 lbs while we were flood locked for two weeks, the high water took the bridge out.

[bulrush]

IMO, let the relatives give Jr their food. When they remove themselves from the gene pool, so much the better.

You might want to stock up on locks and hasps, to lock the cupboards from relatives. Locks could mean the difference between surviving and not.

[Ken]

Beans,

Always keep a bag of Rieces Pieces on hand for such situations.

Just go out to where that bridge was. Hang a Rieces Pieces bag filled with rocks about 8 feet over the raging water. Head back to the house leaving a trail of Reices Pieces behind you. Drop the last few in front of Junior.

Problem Solved.:lol:

.

[Ken]

Ah, ken...ou la vie sans nuages.

It is the title of a book written by Michel Tournier.

Can you give us the Cliff Notes Summary? In English? And WTF does it have to do with Friday/Crusoe?

Cảm ơn bạn rất nhiều!

[Ken]

Cliff notes summary :
Robinson Crusoe lands on an Island. He must survive on his own...but at some point finds a savage by the name of Vendredi (capitalized just for you).
Vendredi shows him a different way of life, in harmony with nature.

In English :
Robinson Crusoe lands on an Island. He must survive on his own...but at some point finds a savage by the name of Vendredi (capitalized just for you).
Vendredi shows him a different way of life, in harmony with nature.

And WTF does it have to do with Friday/Crusoe ? :
Well, it is their story...duh...

Oh. Sooooooo, you were just trying to impress us by writing in French? :yawn:

The French title apparently is not a direct translation of the English, is it?

Excusez-moi!:gagged: I feel so inadequate!

BTW: Isn't the title of a book normally written in italicized title case? Remy, you jokester, you threw me off by not italicizing the name of the book in title case. :lol: Were you just trying to fool all of us?

Please see:

The Elements of Style by William Strunk, Jr. (i.e., Les E'léments De Style par William Strunk, Jr.)

Book Summary: Asserting that one must first know the rules to break them, this classic reference book is a must-have for any student and conscientious writer. Intended for use in which the practice of composition is combined with the study of literature, it gives in brief space the principal requirements of plain English style and concentrates attention on the rules of usage and principles of composition most commonly violated. :chair:

Résumé du livre: Affirmer que l'on doit d'abord connaître les règles de briser eux, ce classique est un livre de référence incontournable pour tout étudiant consciencieux et écrivain. Conçu pour être utilisé dans lequel la pratique de la composition est combinée avec l'étude de la littérature, il donne en résumé les principales exigences d'espace de plaine de style anglais et se concentre l'attention sur les règles d'usage et les principes de composition les plus fréquemment violés. :chair:

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Hey I'm trying to figure out what way you have a better chance to survive, alone or in a group? And why?

I have discovered that alone is the productive way to go. with a group of people, every task, every toil,every failure, turns into a finger pointing free-for-all. and if a group "leader" is'nt an extreemly careful leader the group will mutiny,and ive even seen 7 people go thier own way because none of them could decide who was the more capable.one wanted a river exit, one wanted to follow a ridge line over to another "miners" valley, thinking of an open road.and another wanted to follow a southerly direction, disregarding topography and obstructions. unless your group trusts you without question your group will cause problems. even if its to simply carry a bucket of water.they gripe and tell you how hard it was for them to get the last bucket.Ilike it by my self.

[Sarge47]

Some dude calling himself "Youthpastor" logs on here on 2/09/2009, post this one & only post at 3:39 am, then, 1 minute later logs off & hasn't shown up since to even check the replies. What's up with that?:devil:

[Ken]

Are you stupid or something ?

Hell, yeah, Doc! I'm a certified idiot.

WTF are you calling me stupid for? You don't know me! The Law of Averages says that my IQ is probably well over 50% higher than yours is. No Sh*t.

Are YOU so inadequate that you have to resort to name calling? Can't debate or discuss the actual issue?

Here's some Latin for you, young man: Argumentum ad Hominem. Add it to your French vocabulary.

Definition: Argumentum ad Hominem - (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.

ARE YOU REALLY A MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL, OR DO YOU JUST PLAY THE ROLE ON THE FORUM?

For a guy who professes to be intelligent, you disappointed me, Remy. Name calling. How juvenile. You're not really an intellectual lightweight, are you, Remy?

[DOGMAN]

Sarge-
Maybe he didnt survive?

[Sarge47]

I'll close this thread if I think I have too, but I've sent a PM to Ken & I think he'll drop it. Shoot,I thought my "flaming war with Destroying Angel" was bad!:3: C'mon you guys, take a step back, take a deep breath, & have a glass of cow urine on me!:lol::lol::lol:

[Ken]

"Hell, yeah, Doc! I'm a certified idiot."

Yeah...i figured that much.

"WTF are you calling me stupid for? You don't know me! The Law of Averages says that my IQ is probably well over 50% higher than yours is. No Sh*t. "

I am calling you an idiot, because you have been beating around the bush since you got back here. You want to measure IQs with me...it is stupid, and you know it...yet you keep on doing it. So...i am giving you the excuse you have been desiring...

I don't know you ?
Of course i do...you are human. You thought you were special ?
lolllll
Your little fantasies and desires do not separate you from the herd silly.

Ah...the Law of Averages says...
I'll tell you what the law of averages says...you are average.
Maybe a 110, which is the worst possible number for all the 110 does, is make you think you are smarter than me...when you are not.
Stupid.

"Are YOU so inadequate that you have to resort to name calling? Can't argue the actual issue?"

I am not inadequate, i am arrogant...and i can back that arrogance up too !
The inadequacy you imply arises from the ignorance and the silly little gauging of forces you need, to make you feel better about your 110 IQ.
So what am i left with, if not calling you what you really are...stupid.

Can't i argue the actual issue ?

By issue you mean you right ?
Listen carefully, Ken...A poster, by the name of "napoleon_bonaparte", made a reference to Robinson Crusoe. This individual has French roots, since i checked out his personal profile, so, as a "hello" of sort, i simply wrote the title of this book...and also because i really enjoyed the book.

Now, here you come, with your big muddy boots, soiling my "hello", and making a fool out of yourself for no reason, no "issue" but your own.




Now...
Two possibilities.
You see, i am making this simple for you...

1- you let it go, and go back to your unsatisfied wife and your moronic beagles.
2- you keep on being stupid.

Ahhh, Remy, name calling again, I see.

Well, please remember, you started this with your "Duhhhhh" post. Remember it, Remy? I honestly didn't know what the hell you were talking about in the context of your original French lesson. I suspect many others didn't, as well. So, I ask for clarification, and you insult me.

Yes, Remy, I will measure I.Q.s with you. I know where I stand on the standard deviation curve, and, again, the law of averages suggests that even though you MAY be well above 110 yourself, although I suspect you are not, I will still have you smoked by at least 30 points regardless. Yep, my I.Q.'s that high, Remy. How about low man pays for a 4 week vacation for 2 for the other? Can you afford that bet, Remy? I have no fear of losing this one, and I'd enjoy having someone like you pay for my honeymoon.

Yes, Remy, as you admit, you are arrogant. You are VERY arrogant. But, you have no reason to be based on the personal attacks and invalid assumptions you wrote in your last post.

Let's see......

"Unsatisfied wife?" Remy, do you suffer from a reading disability or comprehension problem? I've NEVER said I was married, Remy. I'm engaged, Remy, and, since she's planning the wedding, I would suspect that she's still satisfied. MY, my, my. What did you think you'd gain by stating (incorrectly, as usual) that I had an unsatisfied wife, anyway? Have you ever taken a course in Logic, Remy? Your debating skills are pathetic. Have you ever taken a Debating course, Remy?

Just where DID you go to school, Remy? Was the admissions application printed on the inside of a matchbook? Wherever you went, DEMAND A REFUND, REMY!!!

Moronic Beagles? Remy, Remy, Remy. My Beagles may not be the brightest creatures in the world. I'll agree with that. Do you feel good knowing that you're probably brighter than they are? Do you feel SUPERIOR to my beagles, Remy? Tell us about it. Take your time and explain yourself. We're here to HELP YOU, Remy.

BTW - Did your classmates pick on you in school, Remy? Are you getting ANGRY with me, Remy? Do you want to hurt me, Remy? Do you want to hurt YOURSELF, Remy? Have you EVER tried to hurt yourself, Remy? How do you feel about your mother, Remy? REMY, PLEASE NOTE THAT I'M NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING BAD ABOUT YOU OR YOUR MOTHER HERE - I'M ONLY ASKING THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE I WANT TO UNDERSTAND, OKAY, REMY?

Remy, are you REALLY a mental health professional? Do you interact with your patients in the same manner in which you conduct yourself here?

PLEEEEEZE. Explain yourself and make us understand. We are your friends, Remy, and, once again, we are here to help you.

[DOGMAN]

Dang main...this is heatin' up. I think your both a couple of pompous windbags. And, if you ever met on a golf course you'd start a hot and bothered BROMANCE. You guys are only arguing, because your so much alike. Ha ha ha ha

[DOGMAN]

I really just wanted to try the word "BROMANCE" out. Its a pretty good word...I just needed a situation to dazzle the crowd with it... this context seemed to work.

As far as the Homoerotic allusion, I can't help myself. I am very immature. That combined with my below average IQ forces me to regularly blurt out sexual innuendos, be they referencing relationships with animals, men or whatever.
Also, I am a hick....you got me there. But, so what, I keep myself stimulated.

[Ken]

Hummm...Well that was clever.
Why is it that there is always an infinite supply of sexually frustrated faggots around ?

We are having a little moment, Ken and I...well, especially Ken...go touch yourself somewhere else you hick, you are messing up the mood.

Remy, Remy, Remy!!!! Still the name calling!!! Can't you do BETTER THAN THAT????.

Why do you feel Jason is a "sexually frustrated faggot", Remy?

Who else on the Forum do you believe to be a "sexually frustrated faggot," Remy?

Why did you feel it necessary to call MY FRIEND, JASON, a "hick", Remy. Even if Jason were a hick (which implies uneducated, which he certainly is not) would it make you feel superior to call him that name, Remy?

Why did you tell Jason to go "touch himself," Remy? Is that what your Mommy and Daddy told YOU to do when you were bothering them?

What "mood" are you referring to, Remy? PLEEEEZE tell me that you're not getting sexually aroused by this, ARE YOU REMY????

[DOGMAN]

In all honesty I don't fit in, in any circles...educated or not. Cultured and Educated people always view me as a redneck...or hick if you prefer.True Redneck hickoids view me as a hippie type.

So, I guess I'll just invent a word to describe me like our Shadoran friend.

How about "Green Neck"
1/2 Hillbilly...1/2 Hippie.

[DOGMAN]

Lastly, you got me...I am sexually frustrated. But, I'm saving up my money!

[Ken]

In all honesty I don't fit in, in any circles...educated or not. Cultured and Educated people always view me as a redneck...or hick if you prefer.True Redneck hickoids view me as a hippie type.

So, I guess I'll just invent a word to describe me like our Shadoran friend.

How about "Green Neck"
1/2 Hillbilly...1/2 Hippie.

Jason,

Please DON'T let Remy cause you to look down on yourself. You and I have spoken over the telephone in the past, and I know without any doubt that you are a bright guy. Formal education has NOTHING to do with intelligence, knowledge acquired, or common sense. Remy professes to be educated, and look at him!

You have chosen to live a lifestyle that many living in the so called "cultured" world would truly enjoy if they only had the courage to make the break from where they now stand. I'm talking about folks who dread getting up and going to work each day. Certainly, you don't feel that way.

Remy's arrogance and his depricating remarks toward others are merely attempts to compensate for his own feelings of inferiority and to intimidate those who may otherwise challenge him.

Arguing with Remy is like shooting goldfish in a teacup with a 12 guage. No challenge whatsoever.

Really, he's a sad little man. Look at his significant other in the pic he posted. Does SHE look happy? She looks like she's zoned out on something or other. How could anyone be happy living with a narcissist? And yes, if you can't tell, the odds are quite strong that Remy is a narcissist. Narcissists love to belittle others, and they are NOT nice people. Remy seems to meet all of the criteria. Check the DSM IV-R. Remy can explain what that book is all about. Can't you, Remy?

(Remy, let me help you on this one if you've forgotten: The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual IV-Revised (DSM IV-R) is a guide for assessing and diagnosing mental disorders that are known in the world.


Ken

[DOGMAN]

Education is relative really....I have a college degree (BS). But, its from a small state university. I feel educated....but, to an Ivy League PHD....I am just another hick.

I don't mind that though. I chose my life...I chose my destiny. However, I didn't choose this dang personality....I really cant help blurting out weird stuff

[Ken]

Education is relative really....I have a college degree (BS). But, its from a small state university. I feel educated....but, to an Ivy League PHD....I am just another hick.

I don't mind that though. I chose my life...I chose my destiny. However, I didn't choose this dang personality....I really cant help blurting out weird stuff

I hope you don't believe that Remy is "an Ivy League PHD," do you? Your BS is from a small state school? SO WHAT??? That doesn't mean you aren't as bright as graduates from any other school. I've taught at two colleges and also at two universities (one that you have certainly heard of). As a professor, I know what I'm talking about here. Honest.

If you want to hear weird stuff blurted out on a regular basis, just hang around a courtroom and listen to the judges and lawyers - never mind witnesses and the other players.

HEY REMY!!! What say you about the I.Q. challenge? :lol::lol::lol:

[DOGMAN]

Oh no...I defiently don't think that low of REMY. If I remember correctly, he's still working on his associates degree at the Rancho Cucamonga Community College. Just two more classes!!!

He thinks I am hick because I've used a whip as a dog training tool, and I like to kill animals....not because of my lack of education.

[Ken]

If I remember correctly, he's still working on his associates degree at the Rancho Cucamonga Community College. Just two more classes!!!

ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? The way this guy analyzes others, I thought he was some type of frustrated professional of one kind or another. Sooooo, he's just another wanna' be, huh?

REMY!!!! You still there? THE I.Q. CHALLENGE, REMY? READY TO BACK UP WHAT YOU SAID, REMY????

[DOGMAN]

I made that up...or, at least I think I did. I have no idea about his educational background. I assume he is self-educated and never got the chance to bounce any of his theories off anyone other than the members of this forum.

[Ken]

Ken,

It feels to me...like you just want to argue, for the sake of arguing.
Which has never been, nor will it ever be, my intention.

I argue with people sometimes, but with the intent to reach a better understanding of either the situation at hand, or in better cases, when all the stars line up, a better understanding of ourselves.

Arguing is not even really a mathematical ordinance, since it is mostly a singular event we could call "digestion".
Once in a while, individuals like you cross my path...wanting desperately to prove a point, to compare numbers and who knows what...this is not entirely void of interest, but can quickly resonate as a competition of sort.

With you, i sincerely felt that you needed this confrontation. I do not know why you have this need, nor do i remember what could have happened in the past between us that still inhabits your present. Your view, opinion, idea of my situation, my motives, or even my style is not of importance...since it has very little relevance to the foundations of this rapport you have come to beg for.

Your view, opinion, idea of what psychologists are, or how they should behave or speak, is obviously borrowed from 50 year old depictions, that you most likely took from hollywood. we are not co-pathetic mops, asking over and over about your feelings. This field, has progressed beyond your wildest imagination, rapport between human beings have evolved for some, and i am gladly optimistic about our future.

My words are always chosen carefully, and this includes all words...even when i say "stupid", it is for a reason carefully weighed.
Your emotional responses are a sign of need your consciousness can only formulate in a series of sentences all created to minimize the gap between what you are, and what you think you are, in rapport to who you think i am.

It is all a game, an act you yourself direct, and perform, for the benefit of your ego. If you want...we can continue in this light, for i will always discover more about myself playing those games than you ever will.
If on the other hand, you want to have a discussion about Robinson Crusoe, or even your life, then i am all ears...al eyes, even if this means that i will not always ask about your feelings, and remain silent at the door of your compulsions.

Best wishes.
Remy.

Remy,

First of all, what do you do? Do you log-off, type posts in Word, copy them, and paste them here? Just curious, since one moment you're not logged in and seconds later what appears but another of your lenghty nonsensical diatribes.

Secondly, I find it excruciatingly difficult to believe that you are really a psychologist. Why? Because my profession requires me to interact with genuine "honest-to-goodness" professional psychologists and psychiatrists on a regular basis --- and you don't come across like they do in any way, shape, or fashion. Believe me, I have no misconceptions whatsoever about psychologists or modern psychology.

Your words - the name calling, the insults, the depricating comments, etc. - are about as carefully chosen as are French Fries from a McDonald's bag. More like verbal diarrhea if you ask me.

Argue? I argue for a living. Unfortunately for you, the people I argue with have at least a vague concept of what they're talking about. You don't.

Remy, in case you don't realize it (and you may realize it but just don't care) forums like this are for an exchange of ideas. Feel free to disagree. However, gratuitous insults and just plain trying to make other people feel intimidated or stupid doesn't fly because it inhibits rather than promotes the exchange of ideas we hope to achieve here. Unfortunately, gratuitous insults and just plain trying to make other people feel intimidated or stupid has been your style. It speaks far more about you than it does about others.

Remy. I'm not the toughest kid in town - nobody is - but I've never ever walked away from guys like you regardless of the situation.

Grow up.

[Sarge47]

...There's no place like home, & yes, Sarge is home with the Frisky Wolf Pack nipping at each other!:chair: So are we through venting? Both Crash & Rick are out of the area & tonight is "Magic"night for me. i just got back from my Mentor's home, who's a University Prof. by the way; teaches Buisness manaement. but he also is a world traveler, has a Russian Girlfriend living in Paris whom he recently visited, & more girl-friends in Vegas, & had Thanksgiving dinner there with many professional magicians, including Max maven & Lance Burton. Sorry guys, but after "Destroying Angel" you guys were a bit on the "tame" side for me. Hey Jason, you like putting extra letters in front of words? What do you get when you put a "c" in front of hick? (heh-heh.):lol: So, are we done now?:gagged:(BTW, my IQ's around 129...so why ain't I rich???)

[Sarge47]

...back to my original question; whateve happened to YouthPastor?:detective:

[Ken]

Sarge, Magic show, huh? If your former professor's girlfriends read your post #76 above ..... poof, you'll disappear.

[klkak]

My I.Q is scary high. But my shrink says my psych issues inhibit my ability to use it to the fullest.:wacko:

[Dennis K.]

My I.Q is scary high. But my shrink says my psych issues inhibit my ability to use it to the fullest.:wacko:

I don't mind smart people, so long as they act stupid.
:D:D:D

[klkak]

I don't mind smart people, so long as they act stupid.
:D:D:D

I get a head ache when I'm being smart. I think it has something to do with the drugs.

[DOGMAN]

My I.Q is scary high. But my shrink says my psych issues inhibit my ability to use it to the fullest.:wacko:


Now that is funny...

[Alpine_Sapper]

Why is it that there is always an infinite supply of sexually frustrated faggots around ?

As I have not observed this same phenomenon, it must be attributed to the simple law of nature, like attracts like, opposites repel.

so I guess that would make you a sexually frustrated faggot magnet... :)

[Rick]

Well crap!! You got that wrong. Opposites attract. Since I'm neither sexually frustrated nor a homosexual, does that mean I'm attracted to them?:oops:

[Alpine_Sapper]

Well crap!! You got that wrong. Opposites attract. :

lol. that depends on what you are talking about. And in regards to you attracting them, I dunno, are you experiencing the same symptoms remy is describing?

[old soldier]

Instantly reminded me of the movie Defiance. Band of brothers only three-strong go into the woods to escape the Nazis, but eventually accumulate Jewish survivors and grow into a group of something like >100. With a group you begin having politics, social ordinances, democracy, etc. In a SHTF situation, martial law is always preferred over group dynamics. A large group also attracts more people, good or bad. A larger group gives more resources but also requires more. Large grounds leave a definitive impact where they stay verses a small group that can easily practice evasion. Moving a large ground is slow and noisy progress. Unless you have a group of trained personnel, you're going to be stuck carrying the sick, weak, old, and young. Babies and children will really **** you over if you're trying to evade silently. However if the 'enemy' knows you are somewhere in a wood and are actively pursuing you, a larger group with adequate weaponry has a much better chance of defense than individuals. When evasion fails, a small group will perish but a large group can fight.

However this is evasion. If you are expecting to start a new community - farming, society, all that stuff - then a larger group is a necessity. It's infinitely easier to sow the field and manage the crop with a large group without putting strain on resources. Therefor, it depends on the stage of SHTF: early vs recovery.


just happen to read, but isn't politics, social ordinances, democracy laws and just losing rights everyday what got us to where we're at?

[Ken]

Well...you are still stupid.


Where your poor excuse for "arguing" becomes somewhat interesting, is not in the obviously aggressive behavior you try to repress by imagining yourself "grown up" and less "juvenile" than myself...but in the simple fact that you inevitably forget that everything you can say or do to negate my existence, my presence, is anchored in a certain language, a certain perception which always brings you back in a place where you must consider as exclusively real everything that enters the word and the sentence, the text and the syntax, and what can only be, in the end, what we apply as filters upon a fluid and subtle reality...upon a mysterious reality that we will never know as long as we do not have access to a different mind...a different intellect...less emotional, larger and more coherent with the intention to conceive paradoxes and opposites...similar things lightly different as being facets of your own limitations.

Your posts are stupid, because you do not even know what you are saying...even worse, you do not know why you are saying those things.

I'll show you what i mean.
This is how it started :

02-25-2009, 03:41 AM
*post #36
napoleon_bonaparte
Junior Member
*
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates
Posts: 3

"I say there is a much better chance survival in a group. The faster the work is done, the more art you can make. You have a team that makes the shelters, while a second group makes fire, a third party gets water, and a fourth party goes on a hunt. Look at the example of Indians. They work with a teammate, because both of you will depand on each other. One always look and defend your back. Look at the example of Robin Crusoe. His buddy, a local was his bestfriend."
---------------------
My response was :

02-25-2009, 08:14 AM
post #38
remy
trace
*
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 171

"Ah, vendredi...ou la vie sauvage."
--------------------------


Then...here you come :

Yesterday, 10:37 AM
post#40
Ken
Senior Member
*

*
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,051

"Ah, Friday. ..or wild life. I get the Friday - Robinson Crusoe part (although Friday was not capitalized) but what' the connection with wildlife all about?"
-----------------------------

Note that you say that you "get" the friday-Robinson part.

My response to you was :

Yesterday, 02:11 PM
post #44
remy
trace
*
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 171

"It is the title of a book written by Michel Tournier."
----------------------------

And here is where i know you have decided to challenge your intellect :

Yesterday, 02:25 PM
post#45
Ken
Senior Member
*

*
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,051

"Can you give us the Cliff Notes Summary? In English? And WTF does it have to do with Friday/Crusoe?

Cảm ơn bạn rất nhiều!"
--------------------------

Note that now...You write "WTF does it have to do with friday-crusoe" ?
When your last post clearly stated that you "got" the correlation. The fact that you had to use "WTF", let me know that you were already set on being passive aggressive about the entire thing, and i questioned your intelligence, giving you an excuse to express whatever it is you repress, by adding the little, but powerful "duh" at the end of my post :

Yesterday, 02:45 PM
post* #46
remy
trace
*
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 171

"Cliff notes summary :
Robinson Crusoe lands on an Island. He must survive on his own...but at some point finds a savage by the name of Vendredi (capitalized just for you).
Vendredi shows him a different way of life, in harmony with nature.

In English :
Robinson Crusoe lands on an Island. He must survive on his own...but at some point finds a savage by the name of Vendredi (capitalized just for you).
Vendredi shows him a different way of life, in harmony with nature.

And WTF does it have to do with Friday/Crusoe ? :
Well, it is their story...duh..."
-----------------------------

Then...you really get to write a stupid post fueled by emotions...filled with once again so much passive aggressive tendencies, that i had to challenge your intelligence, in order for you to be able to once and for all express clearly your love for me, by asking (not saying !!!!) :

"Are you stupid or something ?"

What happens after that, is you being stubborn...and stupid.
So i will say again...
2 choices...

1-let it go, and go back to your unsatisfied wife...and your moronic beagles.
2-keep on being stupid.

Actually...i will add one more choice...

3-go **** yourself.

REMY!!!

Yep, you're composing off line and doing a copy and paste routine! Just 15 seconds ago you weren't logged in and flash, in an instant, this crap appears.

REMY!!! Less than 24 hours ago you :scared: were begging the Super Moderators to shut this post down. Remember? You want to start this up again, REMY?

Are you a masochist? A narcisist? Just what are you, Remy?

Why don't you tell us your life story. The truth, this time. No more B.S. about being a psychologist or a military veteran or anything like that. Just the truth, okay? REMY?

I've read a wide range of your posts. Man, are you inconsistent. Are you just like Walter Mitty, REMY???

How many different Member names have you posted under, REMY? WHO ARE YOU???? WHAT ARE YOU???

[Tony uk]

Remy is not a person, thing, object, or belief, He is just there ...........

[tsitenha]

"a better chance to survive, alone or in a group?"

Depends on circumstances and people around you.

Some people refer to a "tribe, aboriginal or otherwise" working well but you have to realize they were that way before anything happened. They were already cohesive; at least to the outside world's point of view, inside.......... the tribe there's still politics as usual.

[Sarge47]

Maybe Remy is "YouthPastor...nahh, that'd be too easy!:lol:

[Norse&Native]

no doubt about it, a group gives you more protection BUT

I'm a loner all the way and trust no one except my immediate family, I even have my doubts about son and daughter in laws, they also have family whom their loyalties should lay with, but they are married to my sons and daughters and that makes them my responcibility.I wouldn't want to have my family here and in great shape for a couple yrs and then have my DILs family show up with just the rags on their backs, it could be very embarrassing or even bloody, maybe even break up some familys.

I've spent the past couple yrs printing out info for them hoping they will pass it on and start prepping so i figure they have all got the warnings. I don't believe in the old saying, "we'll all starve together" they'll starve before me if they aren't prepared

I'm with old soldier all the way on this one. My wife is pretty damn skookum, but aside from her I wouldn't ever consider "teaming" with anyone. I know my physical strengths. I know my limitations. I know my mental preparation is dialed. I can't vouch for someone under stress, you never know what the hell people are going to do. Someone might be ok one minute and then sitting there crying the next. You don't want to have to drag some sobbing mess around the woods with you giving up your location and slowing you down. It'd be better to just dispatch 'em and give 'em a proper burial than to slow yourself down and give you more of a handful of B.S. to deal with than you already have.

I really couldn't even vouch for my own immediate family members. They're pretty sedentary and don't seem to know a lick about anything. They talk an awful lot about survival and making it in the rough, but I don't think any of them have roughed much of anything.

Pretty disappointing to have to think about that, but when it's down to the wire and it's your @$$ or mine in a sling, whoever I'm dealing with had better believe it's theirs and not mine.

[trax]

Doncha just hate it when yer watching a real good *itch slapping session going on in a thread and a couple of people go and start posting back to the original question of the thread. Geez, you guys, the scrappers were almost in tears here---that would've been great!

[Geronimo!]

Remy,

You seem like a well read fellow. Have you read A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole?

In my head, I have painted you as the main character.

From Wikipedia-
"The central character is Ignatius J. (Jacques) Reilly, an intelligent but slothful man still living with his mother at age 30 in the city's Uptown neighborhood, who, because of family circumstances, must set out to get a job. In his quest for employment he has various adventures with colorful French Quarter characters."

Not a personal attack on you, but, from your posts, it seems to fit.

"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Wait... Or is that the other way around?

[Beans]

I liked Mental Health Professionals, because when I was medically retired from the USMC, one of them gave me a certificate certifying I was sane :tongue_smilie:

I have used it a couple of times when people thought I was crazy or accused me of doing crazy stuff. It helped

[Ole WV Coot]

Doncha just hate it when yer watching a real good *itch slapping session going on in a thread and a couple of people go and start posting back to the original question of the thread. Geez, you guys, the scrappers were almost in tears here---that would've been great!

It just ain't right for sure. Best not to stir it up, those high heels are pointy. I
would have a rough time trying to fight back with one hand and have a dictionary in the other trying to find out what I was just called. Guess we are
just uncivilized. Back of the head with an EMPTY beer bottle, remember son?
Now that is the civilized way.:chair::smash::3:

[trax]

It just ain't right for sure. Best not to stir it up, those high heels are pointy. I
would have a rough time trying to fight back with one hand and have a dictionary in the other trying to find out what I was just called. Guess we are
just uncivilized. Back of the head with an EMPTY beer bottle, remember son?
Now that is the civilized way.:chair::smash::3:

You do always keep things in perspective for me Pop, thanks.

[Norse&Native]

Since this thread has pretty well deteriorated, I'd like to throw something vaguely on-topic back into it.

Regarding survival: independent vs. group and what I've learned from this thread alone:

It's pretty clear that some types of people would survive better independently, because any group would surely rank them out and kill them him within the first few minutes.

It really just depends on what kind of a person you are. If you're a knowledgeable person that makes their skills available and useful to a group, and can indeed work within a group, your chances of survival within that group and the chances of the survival of the group on the whole are greatly increased.

But, if you're a loud-mouth, know-it-all @$$HOLE that would rather be right than be useful, chances are you probably won't survive with a group, and probably won't do too well on your own, either.

[Ken]

Since this thread has pretty well deteriorated, I'd like to throw something vaguely on-topic back into it.

Regarding survival: independent vs. group and what I've learned from this thread alone:

It's pretty clear that some types of people would survive better independently, because any group would surely rank them out and kill them him within the first few minutes.

It really just depends on what kind of a person you are. If you're a knowledgeable person that makes their skills available and useful to a group, and can indeed work within a group, your chances of survival within that group and the chances of the survival of the group on the whole are greatly increased.

But, if you're a loud-mouth, know-it-all @$$HOLE that would rather be right than be useful, chances are you probably won't survive with a group, and probably won't do too well on your own, either.

Excellent observations.

[wildography]

This has been an interesting thread...

Some of you have gone to "mountain man" rendevous (spelling?) and this thread makes me think of the mountain men of old... generally speaking the mountain me went out on their own, or at times with one other person... but once a year, or sometimes a little more often, they would all get together to re-supply, reconnect, party, and hang out together. As the fur trade started to deteriorate some, some of the guys went on to buffalo hunting or other endeavors... with the buffalo hunters, generally the groups were small... 3-5 people typically, sometimes more...

to my mind, that is the way to "do it" when the SHTF, resulting in TEOTWAWKI... small groups, maybe 3-5 men (or familes) with other small groups scattered through the area.

The "frontiersmen" of the Daniel Boone/Simon Kenton era would often do the same thing... have regular gatherings with other families, etc. And during times of crisis, in their instance "Indian" uprisings, the small groups would get together for mutual protection,support, etc

To me, that is the way to go.. have "units" of 1-3 men/families with other "units" maybe within in 20-50 miles of each other... closer or further away depending on the area of the country, etc...

that way... for the most part, you can tolerate people "for a while", whereas, if they were there every day... you'd end up killing each other... which would sometimes happen at the mountain men rendevous...

[Norse&Native]

Excellent observations.

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Rick]

I agree with Norse to an extent. However, it would be the very rare group that someone didn't think someone else in the group was an a$$. I don't think that's the criteria. It's more our ability to productively deal with them and them us. They may, afterall, feel the very same way about us. So we either end up killing each other because we are both a$$holes or we do the civilized thing and learn to deal effectively with each other.

I'm sure most on here have taken the Jung-Myers-Briggs personality test or some variation. While it is helpful to understand the type of personality you have, what traits you exhibit and who best you get along with, I think it far more important to understand we are all different and still all similar and learn to deal with it.

To suggest that one person would be singled out in a group to be eliminated because we didn't like them seems to be a tragic waste of life and a terrible group mind set. I doubt a group with that mentality could survive in the long run.

Every neighborhood has an a$$hole. If yours doesn,t then you are probably it.

[Dennis K.]

I think Wildography has a pretty realistic outlook. You have an immediate circle that is the most trusted. Then there are more distant circles, then even more distant circles. Your closest circle is with you daily - the farther out from that circle a person is, the more distant the relationship, etc - the less you rely on that person or group for daily survival.
SO - occasionally, the groups come together - like families - going to a grocery store.

[Rick]

Now THAT'S a great analogy. Great post, Dennis.

[klkak]

Originally Posted by Norse&Native
Since this thread has pretty well deteriorated, I'd like to throw something vaguely on-topic back into it.

Regarding survival: independent vs. group and what I've learned from this thread alone:

It's pretty clear that some types of people would survive better independently, because any group would surely rank them out and kill them him within the first few minutes.

It really just depends on what kind of a person you are. If you're a knowledgeable person that makes their skills available and useful to a group, and can indeed work within a group, your chances of survival within that group and the chances of the survival of the group on the whole are greatly increased.

But, if you're a loud-mouth, know-it-all @$$HOLE that would rather be right than be useful, chances are you probably won't survive with a group, and probably won't do too well on your own, either.


Excellent observations.

So when do we get to "rank out" and "kill" That member that finds it necessary to use "essay's" for posts. You know the one. Fat, bald, lonely and thinks he's smarter then everyone else on the forum. He's a real "loud-mouth, know-it-all @$$hole that would rather be right then be useful. I think his screen name starts with an "R"?

[Rick]

WELL! I rest my case, sir.

[Amazon]

Well my brothers thank you all for the shower of pee...is the contest over?!:)

I believe the group situation is best for me and mine. We work well together and everyone has skills that are needed. Our group is made up of mostly family members with a few very close friends. Everyone puts in sweat equity and money to maintain our survival refuge. We all retreat there one weekend a month as a group to practice our plans and skills. It's part of our guidelines for belonging and it works. DH and I are there often, as we have a (private) shooting range on the property, three, one acre gardens and all the livestock.
We are secure in the knowledge that we work great as a team or as a single
individuals.

[Alpine_Sapper]

Well my brothers thank you all for the shower of pee...is the contest over?!:)

I believe the group situation is best for me and mine. We work well together and everyone has skills that are needed. Our group is made up of mostly family members with a few very close friends. Everyone puts in sweat equity and money to maintain our survival refuge. We all retreat there one weekend a month as a group to practice our plans and skills. It's part of our guidelines for belonging and it works. DH and I are there often, as we have a (private) shooting range on the property, three, one acre gardens and all the livestock.
We are secure in the knowledge that we work great as a team or as a single
individuals.

That's awesome, and different. Most people think of survival in a group in terms of being solo, and then connecting to a group. If you are not friendly with the people beforehand, in a survival situation, most people will withdraw rather than open up to outsiders. Otherwise, why would there be so much media hype about not falling into "protecionism?"

[Ken]

So when do we get to "rank out" and "kill" That member that finds it necessary to use "essay's" for posts. You know the one. Fat, bald, lonely and thinks he's smarter then everyone else on the forum. He's a real "loud-mouth, know-it-all @$$hole that would rather be right then be useful. I think his screen name starts with an "R"?

Now you've done it, Klkak!

Now some frustrated essay-writer (who usually lurks around without logging-in) is gonna' start making juvenile remarks about your wife. He's gonna' call your dogs morons. He's gonna' suggest you go **** yourself. Then he's gonna' ask the Super Moderators to kill the thread before you can respond.

Loud mouth know-it-all runs back inside school from playground and cries: "Teacher! Teacher! Please protect me from Klkak! He's gonna' whip my butt just because I was saying real nasty things about his girlfriend and his dogs and told him to **** himself.":3:

Teacher replies: "Get back out to the playground, Remy! Klkak ain't gonna' hurt you none today. There's 10 kids in line ahead of him :boxer: and only 5 minutes of recess left.":triage:

[trax]

Well my brothers thank you all for the shower of pee...is the contest over?!:)

:lol: :lol: :lol: You gotta hang around a little longer Amazon, they're just getting warmed up.

[DOGMAN]

I think for long term survival a group situation would be ideal. Not in a barricaded Mad Max commune way. But, in a small scale barter society way. A tribal set-up, where a group watches out for one another and helps in certain areas, but day-to-day living is done in a family arrangement.
I think I could get by fine with just 5-6 wives, and a colony of children to work for me.

[Ken]

I think I could get by fine with just 5-6 wives, and a colony of children to work for me.

Three kids and I always got my own newspaper.............

[Ole WV Coot]

I think Wildography has a pretty realistic outlook. You have an immediate circle that is the most trusted. Then there are more distant circles, then even more distant circles. Your closest circle is with you daily - the farther out from that circle a person is, the more distant the relationship, etc - the less you rely on that person or group for daily survival.
SO - occasionally, the groups come together - like families - going to a grocery store.

Yep, a very realistic outlook and one I can understand. I couldn't have said it better myself, well maybe but sometimes I doubt it. Can't find any holes in that logic at all.:gagged:

[crashdive123]

Think about what Remy has done on this thread. He has demonstrated that a group can easily be fractured by the actions of some. Pretty sure that was his intent all along. I guess the question would be, if you had some sort of relationship before hand as we do here would you move to remove or banish percieved trouble makers from your group in order to maintain harmony in the group? What if that individual had a valuable skill or equipment? If they were needed by the group would you strive to smooth over the rough edges in order to get along as a group?

[Ken]

Think about what Remy has done on this thread. He has demonstrated that a group can easily be fractured by the actions of some. Pretty sure that was his intent all along. I guess the question would be, if you had some sort of relationship before hand as we do here would you move to remove or banish percieved trouble makers from your group in order to maintain harmony in the group? What if that individual had a valuable skill or equipment? If they were needed by the group would you strive to smooth over the rough edges in order to get along as a group?

If a mosquito starts buzzing around your head, you try to swat it away. If it keeps coming back or starts to draw even the smallest amount of blood, you don't ignore it - you squash it.

[trax]

"Valuable equipment?" he asked, leaning over the victim's corpse.....

[dolfan87]

Here was a group, that became one man alone. The one man has been rescued...the group still missing.

The mistake made was leaving the boat...but it is still a worthy thing to add to the group vs alone discussion.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9280632/NFL-player%27s-boat-found;-1-survivor,-3-still-missing?MSNHPHMA

[trax]

Whoa, someone get me a tissue.

this was not in response to the link immediately posted above me, it was meant for the post before it, bad timing.

[Geronimo!]

Schuyler ate em all.

[Ken]

Yeah...awesome imagery.
Cause, we all know i am a mosquito...a fat, bold, lonely 6'4" 190 pound mosquito !!! ... remy.

Now, sometimes Preparation H makes these things go away, but the mere fact that the post quoted appeared proves that sometimes even the old reliables don't work.

[klkak]

Yeah...awesome imagery.
Cause, we all know i am a mosquito...a fat, bold, lonely 6'4" 190 pound mosquito !!!


Anyway...this is just sad now.

You know the difference between you and me ?
Well...there are many really, like i am not passive aggressive nor am i stupid...but the main one...is that if you were hurt somewhere and needed help...i would be there.
You know why ?
Because even if you were the most limited human being i have ever met, i am that guy.

That's my religion.
I might not tell you what you want to hear...but i will always be here...as constant as the sun greets your day every morning. As present as the darkest night...
Consistency is part of my job description.

During a major accident i was in, with my wife being critically injured, i was the guy using a sledge hammer to get to people and get them out.
In the marines, i was the guy you would go to to write your letters of recommendations, or the guy pulling you out of the mud...or taking on your load when you could no longer carry it.
I have always been that guy...
I do not see enemies or friendlies here, i see natures and limitations, hopes and dreams, repressed tensions and secret desires...compulsions and processes, tendencies, pasts haunting presents, possible futures haunting present dreams, traces and inheritances, dichotomies and disharmonies...

Do not be fooled though.
Me being here for you is not a weakness.
The soup you call your consciousness is my battle field...

As was said in many occasions, if you do not like my style, what i write, or the way i interact with you...just ignore me...for there are thousands of "you" out there whiling, able, wanting to discuss and share different approaches.

The rest is like life...the more you resist, refuse, obsess, wish, oppose, hope, repress, fight, fear...the more you will encounter...it, in ways you could have never imagined.


With tenderness...
Now come and kill me, i have not yet died today.
remy.

Allot of the preceding lines I've either read in a book or heard in a movie....hmm.....maybe both.:lol:

[Norse&Native]

Yeah...awesome imagery.
Cause, we all know i am a mosquito...a fat, bold, lonely 6'4" 190 pound mosquito !!!


Anyway...this is just sad now.

You know the difference between you and me ?
Well...there are many really, like i am not passive aggressive nor am i stupid...but the main one...is that if you were hurt somewhere and needed help...i would be there.
You know why ?
Because even if you were the most limited human being i have ever met, i am that guy.

That's my religion.
I might not tell you what you want to hear...but i will always be here...as constant as the sun greets your day every morning. As present as the darkest night...
Consistency is part of my job description.

During a major accident i was in, with my wife being critically injured, i was the guy using a sledge hammer to get to people and get them out.
In the marines, i was the guy you would go to to write your letters of recommendations, or the guy pulling you out of the mud...or taking on your load when you could no longer carry it.
I have always been that guy...
I do not see enemies or friendlies here, i see natures and limitations, hopes and dreams, repressed tensions and secret desires...compulsions and processes, tendencies, pasts haunting presents, possible futures haunting present dreams, traces and inheritances, dichotomies and disharmonies...

Do not be fooled though.
Me being here for you is not a weakness.
The soup you call your consciousness is my battle field...

As was said in many occasions, if you do not like my style, what i write, or the way i interact with you...just ignore me...for there are thousands of "you" out there whiling, able, wanting to discuss and share different approaches.

The rest is like life...the more you resist, refuse, obsess, wish, oppose, hope, repress, fight, fear...the more you will encounter...it, in ways you could have never imagined.


With tenderness...
Now come and kill me, i have not yet died today.
remy.

There is always some blowhard telling everyone what a great guy he is, while the whole time he acts like a piece of $#!T. I'm going to have to say that guy is you in this group. You're not what you say you are and not who you say you are. That's all I know for sure about you, so that's all I'm going to say.

What you're saying you are and what you're actually demonstrating are two different things. You're not an intellectual protagonist gracing people here with your wisdom and helping people see the error of their ways. You're just someone who is trying to play devil's advocate to everything and don't really have an opinion or an argument, and it's always someone like you that gets things stirred up. You want attention? Well, you got it, buck-o...and now everyone knows what an ignorant moron you are for it.

Quit telling everyone you're different and start proving it.

P.S. the more you tell people how great you are, how tall you are, how strong you are and how much military training you have, the less credible you become.

If someone has to consistently convince others of something with their words without action to back it up, the more clear it becomes that what they're telling people isn't the truth.

In short, I'll tell you what my grandfather always told me, "Put up or shut up". Everyone was having a good discussion until you decided to add your two cents, then it all pretty well went to $#!T. You're not offering anything to this discussion, any helpful tips, no apparent skills which makes you obsolete whether you like it or not.

If you want us to think you're smart and right, you're going about it entirely the wrong way.

I've seen a hundred phonies in my lifetime, that's how I spotted you.

That being said, by even responding to your inane b.s. I myself have taken away from the attention of the topic at hand, so I'm just going to leave this at this and be done with it, hopefully things will get back on track.

[crashdive123]

Not to try and bring this back around to the original question (I would never do that) but look at your individual situation now. Do you live in and around people? Do you interact or rely on them at all? Then IMO you will probably continue this in stressful situations. However, if you currently are isolated and depend on nobody, that too will most likely continue IMO. Afterall, what are neighborhoods, towns and cities now if not "group survival"?

[DOGMAN]

Not to try and bring this back around to the original question (I would never do that) but look at your individual situation now. Do you live in and around people? Do you interact or rely on them at all? Then IMO you will probably continue this in stressful situations. However, if you currently are isolated and depend on nobody, that too will most likely continue IMO. Afterall, what are neighborhoods, towns and cities now if not "group survival"?

Well, I guess I'll be going at it alone then. Because I pretty much run everyone off at some point. Heck, if I didnt keep my dogs on chains they'd probably leave me...:cold::gagged::fuk2:

[Ole WV Coot]

Hey Norse&Native save your fingers you just got baited in. Remember when two skunks are in a pi$$ing contest there really ain't a winner. I got had early on myself before I learned who was who. I am the same weight that I was 40yrs ago only it's in different places but I ain't top heavy if you know what I mean.

[DOGMAN]

Hey Norse&Native save your fingers you just got baited in. Remember when two skunks are in a pi$$ing contest there really ain't a winner. I got had early on myself before I learned who was who. I am the same weight that I was 40yrs ago only it's in different places but I ain't top heavy if you know what I mean.

Are you trying to tell us you've been taking EXTENDZ or some similar male enhancement product:knight:

[Sarge47]

...what Happened To Youthpastor!

[Ken]

...what Happened To Youthpastor!

I found him: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.maniacworld.com/FCC-Prank-on-the-Youth-Pastor.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.maniacworld.com/Youth-Pastor-Slips-Up-In-Sermon.html&usg=__ccl2p2fHyc1SV2uAjivfZmNaNgY=&h=271&w=443&sz=15&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=RYZxIcn9HEXgHM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyouth%2Bpastor%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DG

[wildography]

:lol: LOL... sorry.. I thinks its funny when two bulls start pawing the ground and snorting at each other...

to quote an often used lament from someone that I think, in my opinion, is an idiot: "can't we all just get along?"... the answer is... its human nature to not get along with everyone!

but, seriously, my thoughts are... it is ill-advised to broadcast all that you are capable of doing or accomplishing... answer questions, offer advice, relate experiences and lessons learned tuthfully and honestly (with, of course, the prerequisite "slight" stretching of the truth)... but don't believe everything that you read.

Personally, I would much rather that un-informed people underestimate my capabilities... that way, I can surprise them with assisting them in learning why you should not "assume" something...

I, personally, try to offer advice, give out my opinion, relate some lessons that I've learned and perhaps try to offer up some information that may cause others to think or learn... because I'm here to do the same thing... learn, get advice, gather ideas, improve upon my thinking in some areas and just hang out and be entertained on occassion...

I don't feel the need to prove my "man-hood" by blowing my own "horn" (lol... there's a few jokes in there that I'll not even go to)... if I say that I've "done" "such-n-such"... it really doesn't matter if people believe me. Actions speak louder than words... most especially words typed on the internet...

hmmmm... thus ends my filosiphizing... :yawn:

[Ole WV Coot]

Are you trying to tell us you've been taking EXTENDZ or some similar male enhancement product:knight:

Too late:yawn: But I do think somebody got a mouthful and didn't swallow:gagged:'The only part it got to was the head.:lol::lol:

[nell67]

I found him: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.maniacworld.com/FCC-Prank-on-the-Youth-Pastor.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.maniacworld.com/Youth-Pastor-Slips-Up-In-Sermon.html&usg=__ccl2p2fHyc1SV2uAjivfZmNaNgY=&h=271&w=443&sz=15&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=RYZxIcn9HEXgHM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dyouth%2Bpastor%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DG


Oh,he did NOT say that!!!!!! LMAO!

[bulrush]

I have discovered that alone is the productive way to go. with a group of people, every task, every toil,every failure, turns into a finger pointing free-for-all.

A good point. But it doesn't have to be that way. It depends on the caliber of people you are with. And besides, everyone has a bad day now and then. Right Ken and Remy?
:3:

[nell67]

:blink::blushing::ohmy:
Too late:yawn: But I do think somebody got a mouthful and didn't swallow:gagged:'The only part it got to was the head.:lol::lol:

[dolfan87]

Norse&Native,

Most of us have at one point or another stated our hight and weight, which is just a clue to our temperament...i never said i was strong, nor have i ever said i was a black belt in who knows what, nor have i ever said i would kick anybody's ***, squish or kill anyone...in more than 2 years of me posting here.

I never post in certain threads or even certain sections because i have no expertise in those realms...i am however reading them and learning from other members...

You know what i look like.
I was even willing to meet with Mitch, since his move to LA.

My military training is part of who i am...that you like it or not. I know what i have done, i know where i have been...if you do not believe me...who cares ?

You thinking that i do not offer anything to discussions is your opinion...and there will always be a handful of individuals that will not like what i do or say...it is part of the deal on forums, but your opinion is not representative of the whole of the members.

Wrong way, right way...pretty subjective thoughts if you ask me.
Maybe you are right though, maybe i am going about it the wrong way...after all, i have the right to make mistakes.
As for "put up or shut up"...i don't know how much more i can actually "put up".
"Put up" what anyway ?

You are right about one thing though...i do not really have an opinion.
But i do think that this thread for example is actually interesting...even you, from the hight of your 13 posts is getting involved. We are getting more than 2000 views and we just skimmed the surface of this subject.

Your response is interesting, because it aligns with group behavior. Everything that happens on this thread is interesting.

Further more...words, are actions.
Don't you ever pray ?

I was going to try and stay out of the debate with you and Ken, (and maybe everyone slamming you has humbled you a bit) but the one conversation you and I had, you came off like an a**hole.

No one wants to be talked down to...and in fact I believe that was the subject of our conversation.

We are all here to learn. We are all here to give whatever advice we can offer. But the heady crap gets old.

I would hope that most who frequent these forums are more common sense then philosophers. Because when the SHTF I want "nose to the grindstone" common sense people around me.

THAT is why I am here.

Get it?

[Rick]

Can we get back on the intended topic? Group forum interactions aside? I've seen enough name calling and bashing to last me a while.

[trax]

Can we get back on the intended topic? Group forum interactions aside? I've seen enough name calling and bashing to last me a while.

Not a chance ....(dang I've called Rick so many names in the past I can't think of a new one to call him...oh well so much for my temper tantrum):yawn:

[dolfan87]

Can we get back on the intended topic? Group forum interactions aside? I've seen enough name calling and bashing to last me a while.

My apologies.

[klkak]

Can we get back on the intended topic? Group forum interactions aside? I've seen enough name calling and bashing to last me a while.

We had an intended topic? What was it?

[Rick]

Hey I'm trying to figure out what way you have a better chance to survive, alone or in a group? And why?

From the looks of this thread, he'd be better off alone. Otherwise he might be talked to death. What a horrible way to go.

[Sarge47]

Let's all pull in the claws, place those fangs back under those furry lips, & have a round of "Cow Pee" on me! :nono::hammer::rambo::saberbattle::triage::boxer: (Wait! Did I really say that?):whistling:
Group Hug! :hugs: Let's all kiss & make up!:lips: No? Okay, show of hands, who wants to beat Remy to a pulp? (Counting furiously) Wow! :oops: Okay, who wants to find Youth Pastor? (Counts briefly) Just me? Oh well; who wants to mail Sarge you're Morels? Aw c'mon guys!:wub: Cow pee anybody?:drink::w00t:

[rebel]

[QUOTE=remy;103163 To be serious for a minute...
The answer to the original question is as often : "it depends", and most likely anyway, we will, god forbid we were ever in a survival situation, never really have a choice in the matter. We will have to adapt to whatever the circumstance is, and overcome a lot of things...[/QUOTE]

Remy's right. Flexibility and willingness to do what has to be done to survive is the key. You probably will not know until the time of decision if you're capable of making the decision. It would probably be personal and not something you could project yourself in to. No arm chair quarter backing so to speak for some situations. I guess I'm saying, how can we judge another without being in their shoes.

[Dennis K.]

Remy's right. Flexibility and willingness to do what has to be done to survive is the key.

Does this mean I might have to squeeze the juice out of elephant poop like Baer Grylls?
:D

[trax]

Does this mean I might have to squeeze the juice out of elephant poop like Baer Grylls?
:D
Sarge made the offer, he should do the squeezing, but hey Ken and Crash get first taste right? QC department, and yeah, I have to agree with Remy's last post, although I guess I should tell him, I printed his pic, made a bunch of copies and have been using it for a target for months now:lol::lol::lol: (don't worry Remy, I never hit your wife)

[bulrush]

I will not be drinking no poop juice, thankyouverymuch.

[sh4d0wm4573ri7]

a group can be a blessing or a hinderence but is usually somewhere in between Iam and have always been a loner not much for crowds and in my opinion more then 2-3 people would be a hinderence

[Sarge47]

Sarge made the offer, he should do the squeezing, but hey Ken and Crash get first taste right? QC department, and yeah, I have to agree with Remy's last post, although I guess I should tell him, I printed his pic, made a bunch of copies and have been using it for a target for months now:lol::lol::lol: (don't worry Remy, I never hit your wife)
Can i get a few of those pics? We got a rodent infestation problem & I lost my "man-killing sling"!:whistling::innocent::yes:

[DOGMAN]

(hey hold on a minute...maybe i can turn this into a business, selling my face online to anyone that thinks i am an *** hole !)...

Reminds me of the bad pick-up line...."I was surfin' the web last night and came across your face"

[Sarge47]

A newbie/numpty shows up, posts one question, one that's been done several times before, & the next thing ya know we got 154 responses and 2,673 views!
Not to mention Remy & some of the others going at it hammer & tongs! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[crashdive123]

155.....no wait....156.

[Sourdough]

After carefully reviewing this thread.......I am wondering......does anyone know how to contact: "SPUD" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Ken]

After carefully reviewing this thread.......I am wondering......does anyone know how to contact: "SPUD" :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yep! http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/member.php?u=1099

[Sourdough]

Yep! http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/member.php?u=1099

He had 18 posts total....the man raised a lot of HE11 with just 18 posts.:knight:

[yellowcab]

firs (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/12041)148.6 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/75)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-01)Comi (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1778423)Дюми (http://filmzones.ru/t/1857166)Жмур (http://gadwall.ru/t/1824488)рево (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1642859)журн (http://gageboard.ru/t/1727700)Daga (http://gagrule.ru/t/1655708)прив (http://gallduct.ru/t/1658541)Ever (http://galvanometric.ru/t/1998951)Snap (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1920037)Jewe (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1973881)Bonu (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1951857)
О�ьм (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1756630)Aero (http://gascautery.ru/t/1778267)Leig (http://gashbucket.ru/t/1830365)Шишо (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1828481)Salu (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/1995011)Sail (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1984674)Stor (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1880537)Bewi (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/1785014)Samb (http://geartreating.ru/t/1713004)Rust (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/1688323)�мал (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/1715460)Alle (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/1704737)карт (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/1636439)Regi (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/1641108)Robe (http://getthebounce.ru/t/1641120)
Here (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1706482)Дымо (http://habituate.ru/t/1718291)This (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/1784550)Мафи (http://hackworker.ru/t/1700302)Sara (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1726107)Волг (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1742288)Кубе (http://hailsquall.ru/t/1727814)Mood (http://hairysphere.ru/t/1712938)Можа (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/1829706)ра�� (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/1613584)Rudo (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/1745144)живы (http://haltstate.ru/t/1786834)Mari (http://handcoding.ru/t/1681918)Enco (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1713335)Anni (http://handradar.ru/t/1761123)
ШеÑ�Ñ‚ (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/1792157)2010 (http://hangonpart.ru/t/1827708)Zone (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/1859529)Ð*Ñ�бц (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/1764611)КурÑ� (http://hardasiron.ru/t/1746670)Воро (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/1613583)ИÑ�ак (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/1640286)Свин (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/1642624)Circ (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/1783623)Swee (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/1713007)Корш (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/1746671)Степ (http://headregulator.ru/t/1747388)Кузн (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1768960)Jewe (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/1828170)Mode (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1828121)
иллю (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1690005)Down (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/1992927)Heal (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/1772363)Jewe (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/1994937)With (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/1984647)Jewe (http://jobstress.ru/t/1903823)Wher (http://jogformation.ru/t/1903812)Mott (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1883981)Прав (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1792709)выпу (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1740774)Смир (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1729774)обла (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1808379)Nels (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1641712)Pedr (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1659325)Берк (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1619685)
Will (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1992868)Выпу (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/1674149)авто (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1790511)Almo (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1783641)Jayn (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/1722774)Alfr (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/1637392)Ди�т (http://keyserum.ru/t/1747372)наро (http://kickplate.ru/t/1787023)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1827788)Серг (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/1920249)Enha (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/1964701)не�ч (http://kinozones.ru/film/3477)�лек (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/1742253)remi (http://kneejoint.ru/t/1920200)Beat (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1815334)
Albu (http://knockonatom.ru/t/1850605)Surp (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/1969600)Carr (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1933015)Thin (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1920010)Wenn (http://laborracket.ru/t/1942896)Dafu (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1998736)Your (http://labourleasing.ru/t/2004397)по�т (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1714358)Jill (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1720277)Born (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1713423)Zdob (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1780191)Fire (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1815286)XVII (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1641295)Dead (http://laggingload.ru/t/1825242)Para (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1848428)
(197 (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1902559)Facc (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/2000792)Zone (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1827806)Друн (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1740743)друж (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1751412)ма�т (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1683169)Лерм (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1612306)Intr (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1992955)Char (http://landreform.ru/t/1785531)Time (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1828666)Fore (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1987854)точк (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160028)Gold (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/152074)гара (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1838)клей (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/589234)

[yellowcab]

Ситн (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031252)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452768)Bosc (http://layabout.ru/shop/99558)Wind (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/25322)брел (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/101531)Bull (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/269981)9104 (http://leaveword.ru/shop/145259)Фили (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/107211)Pola (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/195342)SQui (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/145886)Поль (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/69851)Brad (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/268235)Саве (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/158905)AVTO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159266)Прои (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613098)
комп (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/597460)прив (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1995)Panf (http://mp3lists.ru/item/2949)Tele (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/144862)Wind (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104244)Bead (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/449025)Юр�к (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/176466)Towa (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/23694)пане (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100524)Robo (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/177380)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/27425)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/178131)Bosc (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/98429)зада (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108224)DeLo (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97699)
Phil (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98048)Chou (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458495)Bozi (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571326)Wind (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/147460)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/199603)Бюхе (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/146724)ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/378827)заме (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/579216)Gone (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/585846)Ð*нци (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/201326)боцÑ� (http://palmberry.ru/shop/204538)Ð*ома (http://papercoating.ru/shop/580377)Ð�леш (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/684632)наук (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1165921)Цыга (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1165988)
VIII (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1164997)prix (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1167703)XVII (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1295509)Ð�леш (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/165717)MUSE (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/593462)древ (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/593446)акад (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/126256)одна (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1070575)Tigh (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/126140)(Зве (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/173122)Серо (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/340194)Worl (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/509997)Ñ�ыгр (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/635229)наши (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1031567)Ð*Ñ�за (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/160632)
Chri (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/175738)чув� (http://rearchain.ru/shop/350055)ан�а (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/513211)Карн (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/14629)возр (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1051447)Кочк (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1058680)Парх (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1068311)Трен (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1692373)Зава (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1217531)Stia (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/121217)Wind (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1323624)авто (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1043391)Кули (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1064607)Баку (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1407317)118x (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1454893)
Туль (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1433558)�зык (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1454927)Шорн (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1488236)Mimi (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/172567)отли (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/248963)Ке�� (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/270081)опуб (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/41301)Ершо (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/54151)Иллю (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/398444)Alfr (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/73021)гара (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1838)гара (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1838)гара (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1838)Жебр (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/475417)wwwn (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/488547)
Enri (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/82432)�кен (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/83978)лучш (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/484829)рабо (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/496619)popu (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1814192)чита (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/620385)взро (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/620096)Марк (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/270844)Коже (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/398432)Селе (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/943320)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Купр (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/973053)разв (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/475887)

[yellowcab]

http://audiobookkeeper.ruhttp://cottagenet.ruhttp://eyesvision.ruhttp://eyesvisions.comhttp://factoringfee.ruhttp://filmzones.ruhttp://gadwall.ruhttp://gaffertape.ruhttp://gageboard.ruhttp://gagrule.ruhttp://gallduct.ruhttp://galvanometric.ruhttp://gangforeman.ruhttp://gangwayplatform.ruhttp://garbagechute.ru
http://gardeningleave.ruhttp://gascautery.ruhttp://gashbucket.ruhttp://gasreturn.ruhttp://gatedsweep.ruhttp://gaugemodel.ruhttp://gaussianfilter.ruhttp://gearpitchdiameter.ruhttp://geartreating.ruhttp://generalizedanalysis.ruhttp://generalprovisions.ruhttp://geophysicalprobe.ruhttp://geriatricnurse.ruhttp://getintoaflap.ruhttp://getthebounce.ru
http://habeascorpus.ruhttp://habituate.ruhttp://hackedbolt.ruhttp://hackworker.ruhttp://hadronicannihilation.ruhttp://haemagglutinin.ruhttp://hailsquall.ruhttp://hairysphere.ruhttp://halforderfringe.ruhttp://halfsiblings.ruhttp://hallofresidence.ruhttp://haltstate.ruhttp://handcoding.ruhttp://handportedhead.ruhttp://handradar.ru
http://handsfreetelephone.ruhttp://hangonpart.ruhttp://haphazardwinding.ruhttp://hardalloyteeth.ruhttp://hardasiron.ruhttp://hardenedconcrete.ruhttp://harmonicinteraction.ruhttp://hartlaubgoose.ruhttp://hatchholddown.ruhttp://haveafinetime.ruhttp://hazardousatmosphere.ruhttp://headregulator.ruhttp://heartofgold.ruhttp://heatageingresistance.ruhttp://heatinggas.ru
http://heavydutymetalcutting.ruhttp://jacketedwall.ruhttp://japanesecedar.ruhttp://jibtypecrane.ruhttp://jobabandonment.ruhttp://jobstress.ruhttp://jogformation.ruhttp://jointcapsule.ruhttp://jointsealingmaterial.ruhttp://journallubricator.ruhttp://juicecatcher.ruhttp://junctionofchannels.ruhttp://justiciablehomicide.ruhttp://juxtapositiontwin.ruhttp://kaposidisease.ru
http://keepagoodoffing.ruhttp://keepsmthinhand.ruhttp://kentishglory.ruhttp://kerbweight.ruhttp://kerrrotation.ruhttp://keymanassurance.ruhttp://keyserum.ruhttp://kickplate.ruhttp://killthefattedcalf.ruhttp://kilowattsecond.ruhttp://kingweakfish.ruhttp://kinozones.ruhttp://kleinbottle.ruhttp://kneejoint.ruhttp://knifesethouse.ru
http://knockonatom.ruhttp://knowledgestate.ruhttp://kondoferromagnet.ruhttp://labeledgraph.ruhttp://laborracket.ruhttp://labourearnings.ruhttp://labourleasing.ruhttp://laburnumtree.ruhttp://lacingcourse.ruhttp://lacrimalpoint.ruhttp://lactogenicfactor.ruhttp://lacunarycoefficient.ruhttp://ladletreatediron.ruhttp://laggingload.ruhttp://laissezaller.ru
http://lambdatransition.ruhttp://laminatedmaterial.ruhttp://lammasshoot.ruhttp://lamphouse.ruhttp://lancecorporal.ruhttp://lancingdie.ruhttp://landingdoor.ruhttp://landmarksensor.ruhttp://landreform.ruhttp://landuseratio.ruhttp://languagelaboratory.ruhttp://largeheart.ruhttp://lasercalibration.ruhttp://laserlens.ruhttp://laserpulse.ru

[yellowcab]

http://laterevent.ruhttp://latrinesergeant.ruhttp://layabout.ruhttp://leadcoating.ruhttp://leadingfirm.ruhttp://learningcurve.ruhttp://leaveword.ruhttp://machinesensible.ruhttp://magneticequator.ruhttp://magnetotelluricfield.ruhttp://mailinghouse.ruhttp://majorconcern.ruhttp://mammasdarling.ruhttp://managerialstaff.ruhttp://manipulatinghand.ru
http://manualchoke.ruhttp://medinfobooks.ruhttp://mp3lists.ruhttp://nameresolution.ruhttp://naphtheneseries.ruhttp://narrowmouthed.ruhttp://nationalcensus.ruhttp://naturalfunctor.ruhttp://navelseed.ruhttp://neatplaster.ruhttp://necroticcaries.ruhttp://negativefibration.ruhttp://neighbouringrights.ruhttp://objectmodule.ruhttp://observationballoon.ru
http://obstructivepatent.ruhttp://oceanmining.ruhttp://octupolephonon.ruhttp://offlinesystem.ruhttp://offsetholder.ruhttp://olibanumresinoid.ruhttp://onesticket.ruhttp://packedspheres.ruhttp://pagingterminal.ruhttp://palatinebones.ruhttp://palmberry.ruhttp://papercoating.ruhttp://paraconvexgroup.ruhttp://parasolmonoplane.ruhttp://parkingbrake.ru
http://partfamily.ruhttp://partialmajorant.ruhttp://quadrupleworm.ruhttp://qualitybooster.ruhttp://quasimoney.ruhttp://quenchedspark.ruhttp://quodrecuperet.ruhttp://rabbetledge.ruhttp://radialchaser.ruhttp://radiationestimator.ruhttp://railwaybridge.ruhttp://randomcoloration.ruhttp://rapidgrowth.ruhttp://rattlesnakemaster.ruhttp://reachthroughregion.ru
http://readingmagnifier.ruhttp://rearchain.ruhttp://recessioncone.ruhttp://recordedassignment.ruhttp://rectifiersubstation.ruhttp://redemptionvalue.ruhttp://reducingflange.ruhttp://referenceantigen.ruhttp://regeneratedprotein.ruhttp://reinvestmentplan.ruhttp://safedrilling.ruhttp://sagprofile.ruhttp://salestypelease.ruhttp://samplinginterval.ruhttp://satellitehydrology.ru
http://scarcecommodity.ruhttp://scrapermat.ruhttp://screwingunit.ruhttp://seawaterpump.ruhttp://secondaryblock.ruhttp://secularclergy.ruhttp://seismicefficiency.ruhttp://selectivediffuser.ruhttp://semiasphalticflux.ruhttp://semifinishmachining.ruhttp://spicetrade.ruhttp://spysale.ruhttp://stungun.ruhttp://tacticaldiameter.ruhttp://tailstockcenter.ru
http://tamecurve.ruhttp://tapecorrection.ruhttp://tappingchuck.ruhttp://taskreasoning.ruhttp://technicalgrade.ruhttp://telangiectaticlipoma.ruhttp://telescopicdamper.ruhttp://temperateclimate.ruhttp://temperedmeasure.ruhttp://tenementbuilding.rutuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)http://ultramaficrock.ruhttp://ultraviolettesting.ru

[yellowcab]

раÑ�Ñ� (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1134)301.63 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/178)CHAP (http://eyesvision.ru/strengtheningeyes/29)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Jewe (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1126722)Панк (http://filmzones.ru/t/912578)Grid (http://gadwall.ru/t/895254)Ð*оги (http://gaffertape.ru/t/1101656)Bonu (http://gageboard.ru/t/1094263)Manu (http://gagrule.ru/t/839124)поте (http://gallduct.ru/t/1162122)Lite (http://galvanometric.ru/t/856833)Соро (http://gangforeman.ru/t/1048994)025t (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/1426697)4038 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1144062)
Deko (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/1027667)Natu (http://gascautery.ru/t/1143938)Шеве (http://gashbucket.ru/t/816556)Ð*азм (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1144066)МаÑ�л (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/820636)Fabr (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1161516)What (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1205071)PRES (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/928374)Deko (http://geartreating.ru/t/927274)Wese (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/920878)учаÑ� (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/854421)Cart (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/853890)леÑ�о (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/855532)арми (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/855297)Ð�еот (http://getthebounce.ru/t/662944)
Your (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/1088044)What (http://habituate.ru/t/1090394)Лен� (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/813231)Dare (http://hackworker.ru/t/1120453)Payi (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1102078)Мо�к (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1095558)Alex (http://hailsquall.ru/t/812757)Rudo (http://hairysphere.ru/t/834723)Fyod (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/762512)Огар (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/853491)пере (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/762920)карт (http://haltstate.ru/t/859951)Глаз (http://handcoding.ru/t/1026240)Pisa (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1042101)Bren (http://handradar.ru/t/772807)
Гаре (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/834624)назв (http://hangonpart.ru/t/859927)Jean (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/672828)Jovi (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/566933)Тру� (http://hardasiron.ru/t/568011)�зык (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/806445)Дмит (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/834834)Eric (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/663140)Clau (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/808563)Кудр (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/944612)Бега (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/810102)�бра (http://headregulator.ru/t/1248680)Sela (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1547183)Пари (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/775603)реме (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1188069)
Davi (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/1182242)Alfr (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/640646)отде (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/609961)Timo (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/764079)ауди (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/638948)Kuni (http://jobstress.ru/t/638095)Куде (http://jogformation.ru/t/768496)Push (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/1147203)�ерт (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1147616)Лева (http://journallubricator.ru/t/1050389)�ерт (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/1147210)Eleg (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1180120)ELEG (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/1181613)Eleg (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/1182987)Vent (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/1179774)
Jeff (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/1049865)Дахн (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/621102)тек� (http://kentishglory.ru/t/1182862)Adio (http://kerbweight.ru/t/1179608)Zone (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/608624)Morg (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/610805)GUES (http://keyserum.ru/t/1180641)Сы�у (http://kickplate.ru/t/882251)Nost (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/1201725)Emma (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/781281)Ленк (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/881585)пре� (http://kinozones.ru/film/6030)Ману (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/679086)Kapl (http://kneejoint.ru/t/820593)Федо (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1245206)
Ð*епи (http://knockonatom.ru/t/677517)Бутр (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/816703)Emil (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/1199593)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1194268)Seba (http://laborracket.ru/t/1074531)Ð�Ñ�та (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1387199)Сухо (http://labourleasing.ru/t/1226689)Zone (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1190347)3110 (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1188623)Zone (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1188241)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186602)Кевх (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/1184133)Zone (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/1191708)Zone (http://laggingload.ru/t/1190014)Zone (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1191650)
Zone (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/1191689)Zone (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/1193123)мен� (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/1183881)diam (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184829)Zone (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/1184777)Zone (http://lancingdie.ru/t/1186193)Happ (http://landingdoor.ru/t/1188380)Zone (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1184526)Zone (http://landreform.ru/t/1186682)Zone (http://landuseratio.ru/t/1185006)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190807)Chip (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1161092)�теб (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/590334)Harm (http://laserlens.ru)живо (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590474)

[yellowcab]

Wind (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178913)Apel (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451862)Zigm (http://layabout.ru/shop/452481)Back (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/181110)Brid (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105728)Дежк (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/465106)MSDN (http://leaveword.ru/shop/465161)Afro (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/194495)Узбе (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/558537)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/195546)Mist (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/268176)моди (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/305915)9081 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/445835)STAR (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/160141)HYUN (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613871)
Amer (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598322)Exac (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1190)trac (http://mp3lists.ru/item/5502)афга (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/601288)�веч (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/105025)пазл (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461317)рабо (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/501622)праз (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/458735)и�ку (http://navelseed.ru/shop/101215)1991 (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454964)Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/175651)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/186347)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/507401)Opti (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108950)Sens (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/446478)
Moul (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98625)Boss (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/1149632)упак (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571234)XXII (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148376)ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/201138)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/148615)enou (http://onesticket.ru/shop/579130)ЛитÐ* (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/581026)Жмул (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/683338)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/682730)1585 (http://palmberry.ru/shop/578056)Luki (http://papercoating.ru/shop/582733)ПолÑ� (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/688315)Мони (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167621)Бара (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167658)
Вино (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166771)небл (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1171446)Ганн (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539716)Джав (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1307614)Edit (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594460)�ико (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/596627)Goog (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1070993)Davi (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1073098)теат (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/321622)Star (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/508852)круж (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/517330)Смир (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/513420)дека (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/899360)(вед (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1078504)кино (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/318049)
поко (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/513317)�зык (http://rearchain.ru/shop/641371)Suns (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/516731)нере (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/880234)�мел (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1054001)роди (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1062512)�лек (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1679678)Пику (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693258)Цыфе (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1760326)Ка�а (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1207987)Many (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1814940)�к�е (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1054336)Goff (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1067863)Михн (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1439245)Гали (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1462982)
Mary (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1492367)Чура (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1462932)Толм (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1493961)�ове (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1324631)людь (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1388990)�рха (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1482611)Макл (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/324600)авто (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/399515)Мило (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/400602)Звер (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/472285)Harm (http://spicetrade.ru)Harm (http://spysale.ru)Harm (http://stungun.ru)Book (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/482848)�ови (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/490257)
Ð�ище (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/498273)Rode (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/483107)85-8 (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/487301)Люба (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/499007)Wrin (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1821559)Ð*ыжо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1880159)Соко (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/686474)Дува (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/347567)Lame (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/400585)Digi (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/980038)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Bhag (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/980574)Nord (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/483175)