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hoosierarcher
01-20-2009, 07:32 PM
OK I've been trying to master the bowdrill fire making method. The predominate wood around me is rock maple. I made a good spindle out of this with a small piece of cocobola that was an arrow footing as an extention to the hand hold socket. A hearth board of the same rock maple proved ineffective as the hearth board and the spindle simply polished each other. The rock maple just chewed up a hearth board made of punk hard maple and did the same to a hearth board of yellow pine.
My questions are what are the best woods to make the spindle and the hearth board from? Also is it better to use a spindle and hearth board of the same or different woods? In my books on survival it just says "available hardwood"; but as I am seeing rock maple to rock maple is not working. Neither does rock maple to sugar maple. Any help and advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

crashdive123
01-20-2009, 08:46 PM
I would recommend using a softwood for you drill and a hardwood for your fireboard (you can do it the other way around if that's all you have). If you are using two hardwoods you will (as you said) polish them. By using a softwood as your drill you will generate wood dust along with the heat. When that dust becomes hot enough it becomes your coal.

sthomas
01-21-2009, 11:45 AM
See this link for a nice list of woods and their likely success rate.
http://survivalinstructor.blogspot.com/2006/08/bow-drill-woods.html

I've used white cedar in bow/drill instructing and can validate that guy's rating of it. Of course "very easy" only applies if you know what you're doing in the first place, and I've seen people struggle with it for sure. As many here surely know, while wood types are important, drilling "posture", tinder bundle composition, and coal-tending are at least equally important.

dolfan87
01-21-2009, 01:04 PM
I would recommend using a softwood for you drill and a hardwood for your fireboard (you can do it the other way around if that's all you have). If you are using two hardwoods you will (as you said) polish them. By using a softwood as your drill you will generate wood dust along with the heat. When that dust becomes hot enough it becomes your coal.

Agreed with this.

hoosierarcher
01-21-2009, 05:39 PM
Thanks guys, I did a little online research after I posted the question and started looking for some cottonwood locally. It seems it makes one of the better hearth boards.
I don't understand about using a soft wood drill on a hard wood hearth board. I thought the drill was supposed to wear on the hearth and make dust from it. I also thought a hardwood drill was needed to "form/burn in" the hole in the hearth board?

hoosierarcher
01-21-2009, 05:49 PM
See this link for a nice list of woods and their likely success rate.
http://survivalinstructor.blogspot.com/2006/08/bow-drill-woods.html

I've used white cedar in bow/drill instructing and can validate that guy's rating of it. Of course "very easy" only applies if you know what you're doing in the first place, and I've seen people struggle with it for sure. As many here surely know, while wood types are important, drilling "posture", tinder bundle composition, and coal-tending are at least equally important.
Thanks for that link. I have been using a wood rated as "Very Difficult"
I know my posture is alright, Resting on right knee, left foot stabilizing hearth board, drill in right hand, spindle socket in left applying moderate pressure, sawing motion with bow in a slightly downward motion to keep cord from touching and possibly fouling as it works, start slow and build up speed, watch for smoke. Lube socket with beeswax. If I can get to Kentucky soon I know where a large amount of white cedar is and I can harvest some. I know it lives here in Indiana too but I can't remember running across any. I guess I'll convert my maple spindle to part of a figure 4 deadfall trigger.

sthomas
01-22-2009, 11:40 AM
You're correct about the common rig where the drill wears into the hearth and creates the coal from that. It can work the other way around as well though.

On that, I've seen people try without notching the hearth. That can be an exercise in futility (heh).

And yes, I saw that the wood you were using is rated as difficult, increasing your challenge.

Your posture sounds good. The only thing I would recommend if you aren't already doing it is leaning your left forearm against your left leg, for stability. Like this scout I was instructing:

http://www.well.com/~sthomas/WildernessSurvival2008/100_1578.jpg

He has a little piece of foil under the notch to catch the coal, which was in his survival kit (for signaling, making a cup/bowl, etc.). A piece of dry bark works just as well.

pgvoutdoors
01-22-2009, 12:05 PM
I personally use a softer spindle (Yucca) and a harder fireboard (Cottonwood) both of these are readily available in my area. This allows the fireboard to be notched and act as a shaver as well as a friction board. As the friction increases the powder from the spindle starts to turn black and smolder.

Another thing I've found to be of some help is to have a bow that is not too bowed. I've even used a straight stick with very good performance. The reason is that if the bow is too curved it allows for more wobble and the cord will stretch more, requiring constant adjustment.

I also always allow the dust extra time to form into a smoldering coal before I remove the fireboard and try and use it to start a fire. Moving it too soon can cause it to go out or the coal to fall apart when blown on.

For any of you trying this for the first time be aware that as the friction increases so does the resistance between the spindle and the fireboard. This makes it much harder to work the drill but keep working it as this is the critical point in which the coal is made.

tsitenha
01-22-2009, 12:24 PM
I put a piece of birch bark (leaf, etc...) under the spindle "hole/notch" to collect any coal in case the fireboard is jarred away.
I also use a straight bow and "bend/arc" it using the leather thong around the spindle.
We wear a antler pendant with a pivot indentation on the back side to act as our top bearing (multi use item) for the spindle to rotate in.

hoosierarcher
01-22-2009, 06:14 PM
I forgot to list the left arm against the leg to stabilize it but I do that.

hoosierarcher
01-22-2009, 09:35 PM
I hiked all over town today and couldn't find any dead wood in the easy, moderately easy, or very easy catagories. I did find a yellow poplar, a cottonwood(very young tree) a sycamore(another very young tree) there used to be more sycamores here when I was young. I'll keep looking or break down and buy a bowdrill kit off ebay.

dolfan87
01-22-2009, 09:42 PM
don't buy one...if it comes to that I will get you some stuff from here and mail it to you.

It took me a few days to get everything working here at home, but once I finally "got it" I was able to go out in the desert and make one out of whatever wood I could find out there.

Part of the experience is how difficult it is. Don't give in, because trust me that first burst of flame is so exciting.

sthomas
01-23-2009, 12:26 PM
Another thing I've found to be of some help is to have a bow that is not too bowed. I've even used a straight stick with very good performance. The reason is that if the bow is too curved it allows for more wobble and the cord will stretch more, requiring constant adjustment.
Agreed completely and I've made some straight bows as well.
When I'm teaching others I need to have enough gear to have multiple people working it simultaneously rather than sequentially due to time constraints, so I have various models of various survival gear collected/bought/made over time.

RichNH
01-25-2009, 06:09 PM
I've done this once several years ago and was successful but that was having an experienced person guide me. I'm trying this again now but find that the string on my bow is slipping and I tend to rip the spindle right out of the board when I try to work it. I think part of my problem is that the drill is slightly curved.

We have plenty of sugar maple and white pine in this area and I've made my fireboard and spindle from both of these. I'm thinking that perhaps I should find a straighter spindle and make a fireboard from a log of white pine.

Comments?

hoosierarcher
01-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Here's another question. It's would seem logical that the bigger team bowdrills would be more efficient than a single person type BUT is that actually true? I mean I think it would take time to develope the teamwork needed to get the job done quick and easy.

pgvoutdoors
01-26-2009, 03:14 PM
When using a hand-drill it's much easier to work with a partner, but a bow & drill is really a single person device that when made proper works quite well.

Another point should be made, the drill methods are effected by humidity and wet climates. The more moisture the wood is exposed to the less effective it becomes. And it doesn't take a lot of moisture either! Trying to scrounge up proper materials while in the field in the eastern states is much harder than the drier western states.

Once you have the proper setup it's imperative to keep it bone dry.

pgvoutdoors
01-26-2009, 03:25 PM
For practice purposes - once you have your bow and drill made, dry the spindle and fire-board in the oven at 250 degrees for thirty minutes, each time you use it. Again this is more important in wetter climate. Otherwise take advantage of hot, sunny days while your on the trails to dry out your spindle and fire-board.

Just remember that the drill method works quite well when all factors are at there best. With practice you will be able to start a fire in minutes! :)

primitiveroots
01-27-2009, 12:50 AM
I'm not an expert by any means. In fact, I have a ton to learn but I do know that the right wood is so important for beginners. The link that was posted earlier is to a good friend of mine's website and I can vouch for what he says. I know they've done extensive testing of woods and practicing firestarting.

When I first started trying to get a coal, I had similar problems until I found the right woods to use and to really lock my holding hand against my leg. Plus remembering not to go crazy and to take deep breaths. Everyone's ability is different. My partner, Mark is super strong, so he can get coals quick while I have to use a different technique.

The other thing that helps me when I am getting the shiny rubbed smooth affect is to roughen up the spindle so that you can get more dust. I hope you update us on how your fire starting went.

Gray Wolf
01-30-2009, 09:29 PM
With lots of practice, it works well! :D

dolfan87
02-06-2009, 12:48 AM
Hoosier...check your PM's

NE Survival
04-26-2017, 11:22 AM
I use a soft wood for my spindle, it creates a good coal after only 45 seconds to a minute

Graf
04-26-2017, 02:18 PM
My best results have always been soft spindle and board when ever possible from same tree, in Cottonwood is my favorite source

Antonyraison
04-27-2017, 05:18 AM
best wood to use is willow for both spindle and hearth, failing that find Alder, or cotton wood... if you cant find that go for other soft woods...
here is a video Of me making a set start to finish:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFV7HHL8FRQ

bigbob
10-24-2017, 10:33 PM
Sycamore and cedar work great for board and spindle. Keeping your forearm tight against your org is important. Wait for lots of smoke from dusts mouldering in the notch and let the coal burn and set up just a little. Have leaf or bark under the board. Use oil fron ear/side of nose, green leaf etc to lubricate handhold that has sharper pointed end. Be sure wood spindle and board are dry. I keep them wrapped in plastic in mu pack.

kyratshooter
10-25-2017, 08:34 AM
Sycamore and cedar work great for board and spindle. Keeping your forearm tight against your org is important. Wait for lots of smoke from dusts mouldering in the notch and let the coal burn and set up just a little. Have leaf or bark under the board. Use oil fron ear/side of nose, green leaf etc to lubricate handhold that has sharper pointed end. Be sure wood spindle and board are dry. I keep them wrapped in plastic in mu pack.

Which brings us to the question I just have to ask.

You brought the pack.

You brought the bow drill kit.

You wrapped it in plastic.

But you did not bring a Bic lighter, Zippo or ferro rod?

bigbob
10-25-2017, 04:55 PM
I Always take lighter or two for each pack, same with Swedish fire steels and carbon ( not stainless since they do not create spark). I also almost have WWII bolo knife and folding saws, large trash bags and water stray or katydin filter. I really like using bow drill but keep some tinder on me in case it gets wet or too damp. Also cotton with Vaseline. Fanny pack is more skimpy, but can make fire. I carry gps, but each pack has a compass. It is easy to go a long way in the forest around here.
Also, 357 and bear spray along are comforting as is one man double wall tent. This is not primitive stuff. I like making snares, bow/arrows shelters, etc,BUT it is nice knowing I can revert from primitive if I want including some food. Insect repellent on warm weather really helps. Carried almost most same in land between the lakes in KY when I lived there.

crashdive123
10-25-2017, 07:46 PM
You CAN generate a spark with a stainless steel blade and a ferocerium rod. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

hunter63
10-25-2017, 10:17 PM
You CAN generate a spark with a stainless steel blade and a ferocerium rod. Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

FYI
You can also spark a FERRO rod with anything harder than a ferro rod, with a sharp edge....even glass,... like a broken bottle.

Flint Rock referred to in "flint and steel"...is a chert/flint rock ....the steel needs to be high carbon.... so your sparks are carbon steel filings being scarped off the steel... to form the "spark"

JohnLeePettimore
10-25-2017, 10:25 PM
Which brings us to the question I just have to ask.

You brought the pack.

You brought the bow drill kit.

You wrapped it in plastic.

But you did not bring a Bic lighter, Zippo or ferro rod?

I've thought that same thing whenever I see someone talking about keeping a bow drill set in a pack, or B.O.B.

Antonyraison
10-26-2017, 01:41 AM
FYI
You can also spark a FERRO rod with anything harder than a ferro rod, with a sharp edge....even glass,... like a broken bottle.

Flint Rock referred to in "flint and steel"...is a chert/flint rock ....the steel needs to be high carbon.... so your sparks are carbon steel filings being scarped off the steel... to form the "spark"

confirmed. done that before many times.

Antonyraison
10-26-2017, 01:45 AM
I've thought that same thing whenever I see someone talking about keeping a bow drill set in a pack, or B.O.B.

I never relie on A bow drill, its simply a last ditch method, its not very realiable, expends a ton of energy.. (even if you really good at it)
In a survival situation it is gona be my last choice...
I have made many many many sets, made many many bow drill fires.. but I rather use a ferro rod or a lighter.
I would not add it to a b.o.b or survival kit,
If you desire to go fully primitive well then go for it, still want to set myself up that challenge for 48 hour primitive.. to test my skill.
but yeah been putting that off, and I have even slammed into african bush with a knife and a ferro rod and a water bottle (thats about as minimal as I have gone for 72 hours thus far)

JohnLeePettimore
10-26-2017, 08:49 AM
I never relie on A bow drill, its simply a last ditch method, its not very realiable, expends a ton of energy.. (even if you really good at it)
In a survival situation it is gona be my last choice...


Exactly. It's great to know how to make one and use one if you absolutely have to in a survival situation, but you don't PLAN on using one.

It's like taking worms, grubs, and spiders in your pack for food. Yeah, you'd eat them if you HAD to, but don't make that your first choice.

Rick
10-26-2017, 06:33 PM
There are some things worse than starvation.

crashdive123
10-26-2017, 07:54 PM
There are some things worse than starvation.

Balut? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balut_(food) I swore off of them after Chief's initiation.

edr730
10-26-2017, 09:10 PM
I don't think anyone would make the arguement that the very best fire making method is the firebow, but it's easy if you make use of the right conditions and dry and store everything properly.
Making a coal or fire with the bow drill is a bit of a magic trick. You divert the attention with one hand and talk about form and types of wood and the bow etc and with the other hand you pull out your bone dry softwood set and tinder and proceed to make a coal in literally a very few seconds.
I'm sure there were individuals from days past who refused to keep their bow set dry by the fire or mantle and those where probably the same people who liked to keep their gunpowder damp to make the shooting more challanging. I suspect those individuals were rare, but not nearly so rare today.

Antonyraison
10-27-2017, 01:28 AM
I don't think anyone would make the arguement that the very best fire making method is the firebow, but it's easy if you make use of the right conditions and dry and store everything properly.
Making a coal or fire with the bow drill is a bit of a magic trick. You divert the attention with one hand and talk about form and types of wood and the bow etc and with the other hand you pull out your bone dry softwood set and tinder and proceed to make a coal in literally a very few seconds.
I'm sure there were individuals from days past who refused to keep their bow set dry by the fire or mantle and those where probably the same people who liked to keep their gunpowder damp to make the shooting more challanging. I suspect those individuals were rare, but not nearly so rare today.

hahahahahhahaha... yeah it is kinda like that. Its my party trick.

hunter63
10-27-2017, 09:51 AM
Not having to do with bow drill....but more flint and steel
Was practicing up for a fire starting contest at a Rondy.....

Hot and humid, I was using their tinder and wood provided like the contest....equal components for all.

I was having a problem catching a spark on my char cloth.......Was working up a sweat.
Young boy standing there watching....

Took a break....took out a cigarette, lit it with a "Lucifer" (strike anywhere match)....

Kid looks a me and says...."Why don't you just use those for your fire?....."
He walks away with the "Sometimes I really wonder about grown-ups........DUH....look on his face.

WalkingTree
10-27-2017, 07:49 PM
Kid looks a me and says...."Why don't you just use those for your fire?....."
He walks away with the "Sometimes I really wonder about grown-ups........DUH....look on his face.
hahahahaha!

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псих (http://readingmagnifier.ru)маст (http://rearchain.ru)Кайд (http://recessioncone.ru)Anne (http://recordedassignment.ru)Форм (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)Nele (http://redemptionvalue.ru)Хлеб (http://reducingflange.ru)Нефе (http://referenceantigen.ru)Tamr (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)Анаш (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)клас (http://safedrilling.ru)Aris (http://sagprofile.ru)Марч (http://salestypelease.ru)Льво (http://samplinginterval.ru)Буда (http://satellitehydrology.ru)
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Phil (http://tamecurve.ru)Кура (http://tapecorrection.ru)Дмит (http://tappingchuck.ru)Ерем (http://taskreasoning.ru)Lucy (http://technicalgrade.ru)Степ (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)Яким (http://telescopicdamper.ru)vino (http://temperateclimate.ru)prog (http://temperedmeasure.ru)Кали (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Форм (http://ultramaficrock.ru)Межи (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

yellowcab
01-24-2026, 12:43 AM
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yellowcab
01-24-2026, 12:44 AM
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yellowcab
04-28-2026, 01:26 PM
Март (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/947)120.1 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/46)знач (http://eyesvision.ru)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1925-05)Hous (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1109872)Edwa (http://filmzones.ru/t/818431)Иван (http://gadwall.ru/t/787118)Andr (http://gaffertape.ru/t/860466)Demi (http://gageboard.ru/t/900963)Nori (http://gagrule.ru/t/768983)Лев- (http://gallduct.ru/t/994655)Винн (http://galvanometric.ru/t/662953)Jame (http://gangforeman.ru/t/818434)Кузн (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/990657)Арти (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143446)
Ваги (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/821360)Svei (http://gascautery.ru/t/1142895)Mega (http://gashbucket.ru/t/472243)Sher (http://gasreturn.ru/t/1041281)Tefa (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/568093)погл (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160471)укра (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1152031)Pepp (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/918733)роди (http://geartreating.ru/t/835770)Фила (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/813648)Erle (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/742457)Jack (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/664435)Детс (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/759274)Arth (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/810512)Gera (http://getthebounce.ru/t/301275)
рево (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/854999)Wien (http://habituate.ru/t/1089172)Edga (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/653661)АГай (http://hackworker.ru/t/1047866)(189 (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/1050279)Воро (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/1041692)иллю (http://hailsquall.ru/t/671322)Anne (http://hairysphere.ru/t/664477)Bald (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/570566)Прил (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/676117)Patr (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/565434)Nint (http://haltstate.ru/t/617994)Eric (http://handcoding.ru/t/859122)Tesc (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1028861)Aquo (http://handradar.ru/t/563127)
Далг (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/642924)Micr (http://hangonpart.ru/t/788337)Push (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565950)Push (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/565948)Step (http://hardasiron.ru/t/567295)Vogu (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567816)1926 (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/596414)Phot (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/282456)Wolf (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/623306)Литв (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/808675)Krak (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/439030)Орды (http://headregulator.ru/t/813346)Лери (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1223403)Pict (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/557307)Клас (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1183463)
Andr (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/900179)visc (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603914)XVII (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/607388)Злоб (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/655349)Roxy (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/605986)Quik (http://jobstress.ru/t/605952)Prah (http://jogformation.ru/t/638775)Mick (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/907997)Вахм (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1142450)иску (http://journallubricator.ru/t/810589)Майз (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/820806)Снег (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/1003369)панс (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/855415)Салг (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/836829)Шеве (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/835098)
Сапе (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/797192)Rond (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/611033)Dani (http://kentishglory.ru/t/936223)VIII (http://kerbweight.ru/t/841806)кара (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/607302)*осс (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609999)Hugo (http://keyserum.ru/t/1049765)друг (http://kickplate.ru/t/652899)Harl (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/781389)Naso (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/607152)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/610384)пред (http://kinozones.ru/film/5843)Габо (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/660375)чист (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606577)ELEG (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/1026514)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608823)Tade (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/659191)чита (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/679245)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193542)XVII (http://laborracket.ru/t/768742)Кова (http://labourearnings.ru/t/1060508)Patr (http://labourleasing.ru/t/898443)Thes (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/1091531)Кисе (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1158383)рель (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/1010621)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1186015)Patr (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/885594)Кузн (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/829784)Alis (http://laggingload.ru/t/845305)Соде (http://laissezaller.ru/t/1002578)
Витя (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/841042)внчь (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/854297)Henr (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/846292)меня (http://lamphouse.ru/t/1184194)Буро (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/841060)Лапп (http://lancingdie.ru/t/831862)хозя (http://landingdoor.ru/t/831177)RHIN (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1183848)допу (http://landreform.ru/t/1082190)Тимо (http://landuseratio.ru/t/953950)Zone (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1190252)Андр (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160458)клей (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589307)BioV (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/2052)само (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590149)

yellowcab
04-28-2026, 01:27 PM
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