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Sarge47
12-29-2008, 01:42 AM
I watched some of the "Survivorman Marathon" last night & saw the one where Les takes the 2 horses up into the Rockies. He found an abundance of "wild edible plants" but mentioned that, while somewhat nourishing, it wasn't enough to give him all the nutrition he needed to think & function properly! Earlier he'd found & devoured an earthworm to give him a boost, &, since there didn't seem to be any "snail slime" or Twinkies, he went fly fishing & finally caught a couple of brookies. I think he'd of done better if he hadn't eaten the "bait" earlier on, but that's just me. Anyway, this caused me to start thinking, which, in turn, gave me a headache,:rolleyes: which brings up the following:

1.) With all the talk about wild edible plants that goes on here, I had the feeling that it was a great "alternative" food source, however this has proven not to be the case. The Survivor's diet will also require a more substantial diet of meat &/or fish to survive. Any thoughts on this?

2.) I've lived in Colorado for about 8 years & it's where I 1st learned about fly fishing & tying. The fishing laws there forbid the use of live bait in the mountains above certain altitudes...the reason? They work TOO WELL! :eek:That's good to know if you ever find yourself stranded up there! So, maybe you shouldn't be in a hurry to eat up the bait?:rolleyes:
flandersander
12-29-2008, 02:07 AM
I think live bait is a killer in the fishing world. In saskatchewan you aren't allowed to use live bait, period. Night crawlers are allowed but aren't considered live bait. It would be fun, but way to easy to catch your limmit.
dougz
12-29-2008, 02:24 AM
The Survivor's diet will also require a more substantial diet of meat &/or fish to survive. Any thoughts on this?

It's said that the body can go for over 4 weeks without food..

I dunno about you, but I can't go 4 hours.. :)

If I it was a choice between a mushroom I wasn't sure about, or worms..

I'd eat the worms..

And as far as plants go, it's better than nothing, right?

Unless you eat the wrong kind and vomit it up or something!

I'd not risk it, unless it was something I was dead sure about, like dandelion leaves, fern fiddleheads, etc..
laughing beetle
12-29-2008, 02:26 AM
I think Sarge was refering to wild plants not being a good source of nutrition.
Sarge47
12-29-2008, 02:26 AM
I think live bait is a killer in the fishing world. In saskatchewan you aren't allowed to use live bait, period. Night crawlers are allowed but aren't considered live bait. It would be fun, but way to easy to catch your limmit.
I can see that you've never fished for "Channel Cat" on the Mississippi!:eek:
And yes, Night-crawlers ARE live bait; but I was talking about a "Survival" situation where anything that can keep you alive goes. Try to stay "on-topic". Thanks!:cool:
Sarge47
12-29-2008, 02:29 AM
It's said that the body can go for over 4 weeks without food..

I dunno about you, but I can't go 4 hours.. :)

If I it was a choice between a mushroom I wasn't sure about, or worms..

I'd eat the worms..
I WAS talking about plants being a weak source of nutrition. I'd eat the mushroom if it was a Morel! And regardless, I'd use the worms to catch fish...DUH!:rolleyes::D Fish taste better!:cool:
dougz
12-29-2008, 02:37 AM
A worm in hand.. :)

I'm useless at fishing.. LOL
flandersander
12-29-2008, 02:48 AM
I can see that you've never fished for "Channel Cat" on the Mississippi!:eek:
And yes, Night-crawlers ARE live bait; but I was talking about a "Survival" situation where anything that can keep you alive goes. Try to stay "on-topic". Thanks!:cool:

sorry sarge. Its just most if not all of the threads on here are derailed really fast. lol. But yeah, i'll stay "on-topic" a little more.
Cheers
laughing beetle
12-29-2008, 03:05 AM
Sarge, I am curious. Do you happen to remember which plants Les was eating? It could well be that while he had found plants that were "edible", as in not poisonous, Les didn't find plants that actually had much nutritional value. however I see where you are going, because in a true "survival" situation you are going to need a high protien, high calorie diet. as much as you can provide for yourself at any rate. You can land yourself a real nasty case of scurvy if you dont have some knowledge of plantlife, (you need to consume some greens, you cant survive on just protien) but in a true life or death situation that will be the least of your worries.
doug1980
12-29-2008, 03:13 AM
What about the dead fish Les found on the shore in Alaska? I'm not sure I could eat something that has been dead for awhile. Anyone know what the time span is on dead game meat, in a moderate climate say 60-70* F? As far as plants I can't imagine they would be that nutritious expecially compared to meat but it might take the hunger pains away if you eat enough.
Sarge47
12-29-2008, 03:13 AM
Sarge, I am curious. Do you happen to remember which plants Les was eating? It could well be that while he had found plants that were "edible", as in not poisonous, Les didn't find plants that actually had much nutritional value. however I see where you are going, because in a true "survival" situation you are going to need a high protien, high calorie diet. as much as you can provide for yourself at any rate. You can land yourself a real nasty case of scurvy if you dont have some knowledge of plantlife, (you need to consume some greens, you cant survive on just protien) but in a true life or death situation that will be the least of your worries.
Well, let's see, there was dandelions, shooting star, & several others that I can't recall. He was pretty excited about finding them, it was just that they didn't provide ALL the nessasary nutriants. Hence the Fly-Fishing.:cool:
laughing beetle
12-29-2008, 03:23 AM
Well, he had the right plants, but you do need to add protien for a well balanced meal. I think, (and this is just my opinion) that meat or plant alone will not succor you in a bad situation, you need both to keep your body running at it's peak. Which is why training in wild edibles comes in handy. Your body can't run "well" on protien alone. you need the vitamins in the plants too. ( or just pop a couple of "one a days")
laughing beetle
12-29-2008, 03:24 AM
Basically what you said!!
tsitenha
12-29-2008, 03:31 AM
In a "survival" situation you won't be vitamin defficient for a while.

I think Les in his last season is starting to hunt and fish, a subject he always didn't want to comment on a few years ago on his first forum. Now a change?

Maybe instead of enduring his adventure he is actually showing an alternative way?
Imagine what stress your body has to go through to re-adapt to vegetation alone? Some meat makes sense. Carry a few vitamin pills if it gives you that moral boost along with E ration of course.
RichNH
12-29-2008, 09:46 AM
There's a difference between food for nutrition and food for energy. My experience is that the meat gives you energy where as the plants help with nutrition and "regularity" which can be a nice mental boost when times are tough (at least it is for me! LOLOL)

In my mind, if you are in a true survival situation nobody (in authority) is going to fault you for doing what you need to do to survive, up to and including eating your own dead. So if you have plant food available eat it, especially if it tastes good, it'll boost your morale which is always a good thing.

The whole thing about eating bait or using bait, that's a judgment call.

I do remember in one of his first episodes he caught a rabbit. It was the downed plane one I think. He commented that in a long term survival situation you need to eat all parts, including bones, in order to get all the nutritional value from it. Otherwise a diet of only rabbit meat will eventually harm you.

The thing is, you never know exactly how long you're going to have to survive before being rescued or saving yourself. Best to take the fullest advantage of any food source, plant or animal.

Rich
MCBushbaby
12-29-2008, 11:08 AM
Two horses? Well golly gee, that solves any food problem right there. Worms and grasses be damned, have some horse jerky!

EDIT: and for point numero uno, don't get sucked into the protein-only survival diet. You need carbs and fat too. My research into arctic expedition diets run about 20 carb - 40 fat - 40 protein, probably more carbs in warmer climates.
rrsnook
12-29-2008, 11:59 AM
I don't know why anyone would eat a worm if there are streams around to catch fish. I'd cut that worm up and turn it into 4 fish.
Sarge47
12-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Two horses? Well golly gee, that solves any food problem right there. Worms and grasses be damned, have some horse jerky!

EDIT: and for point numero uno, don't get sucked into the protein-only survival diet. You need carbs and fat too. My research into arctic expedition diets run about 20 carb - 40 fat - 40 protein, probably more carbs in warmer climates.
You know, he never did mention that option, probably because the horses were rented. But I agree with you; that WAS a viable option!:cool:
ClovisMan
12-29-2008, 01:01 PM
Two horses? Well golly gee, that solves any food problem right there. Worms and grasses be damned, have some horse jerky!

EDIT: and for point numero uno, don't get sucked into the protein-only survival diet. You need carbs and fat too. My research into arctic expedition diets run about 20 carb - 40 fat - 40 protein, probably more carbs in warmer climates.

He can't eat the horses!!! Who would carry all that damn camera gear in mountains?
RichNH
12-29-2008, 01:11 PM
LOLOLOLOL

Regarding the worm, maybe there were lots of worms and he was hungrey then. Fishing sometimes takes time. Maybe he wanted ratings or perhaps just proving a point.

Personally, seeing all his shows, he was most likely hungrey, then and there.

Rich
BruceZed
12-29-2008, 02:02 PM
Considering that he never goes longer than 7 days than FASTING for that short period of time would be quite successful. You would only be hungry for the first few days and your energy use would be limited to finding firewood and water.
davef
12-29-2008, 03:20 PM
Concerning diet, your body needs to burn fat to obtain energy otherwise you die.
Your body doesn't care where that fat comes from (carbs or protein), it just cares
that there is fat otherwise it needs to burn something else (muscle) to obtain energy.

Given this, it is far easier for your body to convert carbohydrates to fat than it is to
convert protein to fat, which means that you use up less of your energy reserves
storing up fat to burn for energy.

Which is a good thing right?

So if you are in a survival situation, it only makes sense that if you can eat a food
that is converted to fat faster and easier, allowing you to use less energy then you
are going to have more energy to deal with the needs of survival.

Plants are chock full of carbohydrates which would be a good thing.
Meat on the other hand is lacking in carbohydrates but does have fat
(unless it's an animal that is very lean ie; rabbit).

So I guess that it boils down to how much energy you need to expend in order to
obtain food that is capable of sustaining you.

Is it easier to gather up enough plant food, a good source of carbohydrates, that
can easily be converted to fat to be burned for energy?
Or is it easier to catch enough fish to provide you with a good source of fat?

Another thing to look at, is that if you drastically reduce the amount of carbohydrate
in your body, then you retain less water.
In a survival situation, this dehydration could be more detrimental to your survival
than lack of food would be.

Opinions?
red lake
12-29-2008, 04:29 PM
Read the accounts of MacKenzie, Hearne and Back exploring the north of Canada and you will get a whole new appreciation of what one can eat and will eat when hungry.

Some highlights...
Leather Shoes
Tripe de Roche? which is a lichen and has no nutritional value
Rotting Deer carcasses

And to quote Samual Hearne in 1770.....
AS such favourable opportunities for indulging the appetite happen but seldom, we did not neglect any art, in dressing our food, which is the most refined skill of Indian cookery has been able to invent. These consist chiefly of boiling, broiling and roasting, but also of a dish called beeatee, which is most delicious. It is made with the blood, a good quantity of fat (shredded small), some of the tenderest flesh and the heart and lungs torn into small slivers. All of this is put in the deers stomach and roasted by being suspended before the fire. When it is sufficiently done it wil emit steam which is as much to say "Come and eat me now!" and then the best part

This preparation is somewhat related to the most remarkable dish known to both the Northern and Southern Indians, which is blood mixed with the half-digested foods found in the deer's stomach, and which is then boiled to the consistency of pease-porridge. Some fat scraps and tender flesh are also boiled with it. To render this dish more palatable, they have a method of mixing the blood with the stomach contents in the paunch itself, and then hanging it up in the heat and smoke of the fire for several days. This puts the whole mass into a state of fermentation, and give it such an agreeably acid taste that, were it not for prejudice, it might be eaten by those who have the nicest palates.

It is true that some people with delicate stomachs would not be persuaded to partake of this dish if they saw it being prepared, for most of the fat is first chewed by the men and boys in order to break the globule, so that it will all boil out and mingle with the broth. To do justice, however, to their cleanliness in the particular, I must observe that neither old people with bad teeth nor young children, have any hand in preparing this dish.

Sorry for quoting nearly an entire page out of a book, but it is the best example of what we as a nation used to eat and find acceptable and even palatable.
crashdive123
12-29-2008, 04:30 PM
DaveF - I’ve got to disagree with your analysis just a bit. Carbs are not turned directly into fat, but rather sugar. Proteins take much longer (hence more energy) to be broken down into nutrients that you body can use. Fats are necessary to process a variety of body functions, including of some vitamins. Your body needs nutrients and energy. Nutrients are carbohydrates, protein, and fat. When you eat, your body takes from it the nutrients it needs. The excess is stored as fat.
davef
12-29-2008, 10:18 PM
DaveF - Ive got to disagree with your analysis just a bit. Carbs are not turned directly into fat, but rather sugar. Proteins take much longer (hence more energy) to be broken down into nutrients that you body can use. Fats are necessary to process a variety of body functions, including of some vitamins. Your body needs nutrients and energy. Nutrients are carbohydrates, protein, and fat. When you eat, your body takes from it the nutrients it needs. The excess is stored as fat.


Quite right Crash. My bad:o
I was writing while at work and glossed over things a bit too much in my
haste to get it done between actual "work tasks". :)
crashdive123
12-29-2008, 10:20 PM
WORK! I'll have you know there are children on this site - we'll have none of that talk!:D
catfish10101
12-29-2008, 10:39 PM
I don't know why anyone would eat a worm if there are streams around to catch fish. I'd cut that worm up and turn it into 4 fish.

LOL. The eternal optimist!!!
Either you are a very good fisherman AND VERY LUCKY, or you have not fished a whole heck of alot. LOL!!!
:p

Myself, I'd go fishing too!! LOL.
SARKY
12-29-2008, 11:13 PM
A side note pertaing to survival fishing.... In a survival situation you want to do as little ACTIVE gathering of consumables (food) as possible. That is why we set traps and snares and use a trot line to catch fish. The big joke in northern Maine was "if lost in the woods, set a trot line and a game warden will be around shortly to site you" then just follow him out. Always check your traps and snares while out doing other chores (multitasking) such as gathering firewood.
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yellowcab
01-23-2026, 01:24 PM
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yellowcab
01-23-2026, 01:25 PM
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yellowcab
04-28-2026, 01:59 AM
амил (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/671)228.5 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/927)улуч (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/227)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com/stories-from-the-clinic-chapter-7)Атмо (http://factoringfee.ru/t/760324)уйде (http://filmzones.ru/t/284568)Jasc (http://gadwall.ru/t/356364)теат (http://gaffertape.ru/t/662513)Ухто (http://gageboard.ru/t/805812)Выле (http://gagrule.ru/t/319166)Вунд (http://gallduct.ru/t/818961)Atla (http://galvanometric.ru/t/392052)KG-0 (http://gangforeman.ru/t/306454)Gerh (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/668049)Крем (http://garbagechute.ru/t/959658)
Самс (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/267539)Исфа (http://gascautery.ru/t/836197)Аста (http://gashbucket.ru/t/301434)XVII (http://gasreturn.ru/t/836313)Tefa (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559427)Oxfo (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/837243)Силь (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/816023)Didi (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/674636)4006 (http://geartreating.ru/t/644467)упак (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/568094)Empe (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559045)Swin (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/559703)Exce (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/139628)Patr (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/139691)Trus (http://getthebounce.ru/t/138418)
XVII (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/669036)Fran (http://habituate.ru/t/751256)серт (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/355638)Соде (http://hackworker.ru/t/672823)Davi (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/671279)Ахна (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/669994)Дмит (http://hailsquall.ru/t/142646)серт (http://hairysphere.ru/t/450811)Disc (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561383)Myth (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562382)Sham (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/562504)Acry (http://haltstate.ru/t/450812)Wolf (http://handcoding.ru/t/641045)Наво (http://handportedhead.ru/t/850942)серт (http://handradar.ru/t/561789)
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Luck (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/639201)*осс (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/609977)Кула (http://kentishglory.ru/t/669496)Rank (http://kerbweight.ru/t/537300)Unde (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/527560)Соде (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/372169)Ерем (http://keyserum.ru/t/672117)зака (http://kickplate.ru/t/157848)Zone (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/604877)меня (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/605669)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/608969)мысл (http://kinozones.ru/film/5567)Rond (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/610857)Zone (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605016)Zone (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/611744)
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yellowcab
04-28-2026, 02:00 AM
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