Another Pattern emerges!

[Sarge47]

Hmmm, there seems to be something new attacking our site here; something a bit more subtle. I think some of the Newbies are actually Trolls who are not doing anything to get themselves banned but, instead, are asking foolish questions then sit back & laugh as some of the Wolves "chase their own tails" in answering. Note, if you will, that there has been a recent influx of Newbies that are either one of two types; those that intro & those that don't; & of those that do, most are a serious intro.

The ones that don't intro, or do so very weak, pop in & ask a really stupid question, like: "the nutritional value of animal poo", for example; or just post nonsense. Then we don't seem to hear from them anymore. I recently deleted some post that I considered "bogus" to see what the party in question might say; but they haven't even bothered to come back on yet. I don't want to be heavy-handed about this, though I have thought about just "locking down" suspicious posts & see what happens. What are some of your thoughts out there?:confused::cool:

[nell67]

Anymore,I just report the ones I think are trolls,some I may give a short reply to,but other than that,if I call bs on someone,a certain member of the forum makes digs at my posts,so why bother.

[chiangmaimav]

This is very coincidental to me that you bring up this topic here, as it was almost same one I just read about in other forum I participate in, which is a forum for expats living in Thailand. I am new to the internet forum business and did not know what a troll was. They were writing about trolls on Thailand forum today, and I wrote a posting that I thought a troll was a little mean guy who lives under a bridge. Someone explained about trolls, and apparently this is a common thing on Thai forum, but I have only recently discovered this forum so I cannot give opinion on this. I will say that from my short experience with this forum, people are much more mature and polite than on the Thai one. Some of those people are very nasty and often I believe mentally ill, which is not surprising if you see some of the foreigners living here. I actually am probably not wrapped too tight, or I wouldn't be here either.

[Sourdough]

Wow, I thought a troll was anyone who disagreed with me about anything. And I know my ex-wife never agreed to anything and she is head of (UTWA) "United Troll Witches Association".

[backtobasics]

What about midgets and dwarfs, are they OK?:D

[crashdive123]

Sometimes they are pretty easy to recognize, sometimes not. If it's a semi serious question, I will usually answer if I have one. Even if the troll isn't trying to learn anything, somebody else may be able to. Now in the case of Skeeterlips..........seems like just a troll.

[FVR]

Midgets.......lolololololol..........you said midgets.

So, on an early date with my now wife. Taking her to the movies, she is driving. We drive up, then around the cinema.... do it again, on the third time she asks..."where do we turn" I don't even look at her and say "C, take a left at the midget." We both busted out laughing, up to that point, it was a pretty serious date.

It still makes us laugh.


To top it off, the midget who was the guider person at the cinema, ended up standing in line behind us.

You said midget...................................

[tonester]

i agree with sarge. it kinda gets annoying when people keep on posting nonsense that has nothing to do with this forum or is just plain stupid. i just dont want it to get to the point where you have to read through a bunch of bs to get some info.

[klkak]

Sometimes they are pretty easy to recognize, sometimes not. If it's a semi serious question, I will usually answer if I have one. Even if the troll isn't trying to learn anything, somebody else may be able to. Now in the case of Skeeterlips..........seems like just a troll.

:confused:Skeeters have lips?:eek:

[Arsey]

I suppose that you guys must have been attacked pretty hard by those you call trolls in the past?

I'm only assuming that by your seemingly constant reaction to newcomers.

Personally I think that in this day and age of complete uncertainty and chaos, and I don't know who started this site or why or when, you would expect to find loads of semi like minded people being drawn to your site by the name.

As I was.

I can only speak for myself but I know that in your 'collective' eyes I was a troll at the start because I didn't intro myself properly. Oops. No big deal. But still I don't feel as though you don't think of me any differently. I'll persevere because I'm stubborn, I'm a Scot. We're bred that way. Sorry.

I'm not a mega computer person but I do visit a few sites that I think are worthy of contributing to.

Yours is one.

I've liked your site enough to recommend it to others, even before I joined up and introduced myself so disastrously , in your eyes. However I know of at least 3 other people who have come here on my recommendation that feel like they have been 'burnt, treated less than welcome and ignored and therefore have left before they even joined.

I think you guys have a nice wee club going here.

You either want people to join......or not.

You get ********** wherever you are...whatever you do...it's unfortunate...but it seems to be life.

Y'know it's odd reading the posts.

Sarge is concerned about something and is voicing it.

Personally I'm surprised at some of the replies from those who feel that they own this forum.

Obviously that only my tuppence worth and if you don't give a damn then I guess you don't give a damn, but I suggest that you collectively change your attitudes if you want this to expand more than it is.

People are interested in what you have to offer, whether it's experiences from a world, or a climate, or a psyche they are not familiar with or what....I don't know.

Either that or keep your wee club to yourselves.

Your choice.

[Ole WV Coot]

Some people shouldn't be allowed to reproduce as I've said before. That being said, we know it's tough to pick fly crap out of pepper so If it's extra stupid questions or statements except those made by me I ignore anymore. You can pick your nose but can't pick who posts what. I know some of them are typing with their head on brick keys in a rubber room but following an animal or human to get a warm meal is sick and don't deserve an answer.

[wareagle69]

some folks that have been here along time veiw this as home, i am one of them.but that doesn't give anyone the excuse to have the "pack mentallity" that does go on here, i am sure many have been scared away after joining and some lurkers will not join because of these antics. it pisses me off to no end to see the closed minded mentality that goes on here, i just hope that some of the new members can ignore it and get down to reading the posts by some of the folks here that are a great source of information, it would be a shame and a great loss if someone was interested in this forum and walked away and did not learn something that could save a life yours or theirs or share a valuable piece of info here. as has been pointed out people will say things here they would not say in real life- trust me on this people out here in the real world barely even look me in the eye and give me a wide berth -much less say the things to me that is said on here. yes we do get trolls and that does put us on the defensive but there are better ways to handle that, but it is even the folks who are not trolls who get treated very badly that folks here should just hang there head. treat others here as you want to be treated give respect get it back be serious get taken serious.

[crashdive123]

I've liked your site enough to recommend it to others, even before I joined up and introduced myself so disastrously , in your eyes. However I know of at least 3 other people who have come here on my recommendation that feel like they have been 'burnt, treated less than welcome and ignored and therefore have left before they even joined.


I am being serious when I ask this --- how so? How were they treated "less than welcome"?

[wareagle69]

seriously crash? just look at how arsey was treated when he got here and speaking of patterns emerging i have seen it over and over with a few certain members being more than a little harsh with the newcomers here, i think it is pretty obvious.

[Sarge47]

...on the newcomer. I still remember 50 spam posts from TheFreakinBear! I just went back over Arsey's 1st intro & the only one who responded in a negative way was Rick, & it wasn't "all that"! He was suspicious of Arsey's screen name and avatar line at the time, not understanding that Aussies are automatically dropped on their heads at birth as opposed to slapping them on their backsides 'cuz they live down-under & this then helps in telling them apart from the KIWI's!:D I've done worse, sometimes to provoke a response to help determine if the person is going to be trouble. (Remember Oday & all of his pornographic crap? Chinese Spambots? Brad & Adrian?) Intros are nice, they give a "verbal picture" to the newcomer as well as letting the rest of us know certain data which can be helpful in answering any questions that they might have as well as, perhaps demonstrating that they may be qualified to answer some of ours. Oh, & Arsey, this site is not that "Wee". Besides, "size isn't everything." Both my son & wife belong to the "Time-Bomb" forums & it is really large; however this one is the best!:cool:

[crashdive123]

seriously crash? just look at how arsey was treated when he got here and speaking of patterns emerging i have seen it over and over with a few certain members being more than a little harsh with the newcomers here, i think it is pretty obvious.

Yeah - seriously. Some thought, as Arsey pointed out, that he was a troll. Turns out he wasn't. Look back at his first few posts and his original bio, his original signature and it would be easy to see why some felt that way. What I was asking specifically was about his 3 friends. Not knowing whom they are, I do not know how they were treated, nor do I know why.

[wareagle69]

even provoking a harmless animal will get it to bite sarge- i think that doing that sets people on the defensive automatically and can bring out the worst - for some folks nothing worse than rejection they are not used to it the way you are

[Sourdough]

A lot of people make their first post a direct challenge. Well, you better have a good understanding of the subject if you do that maneuver. I know a lot about one or two subjects, hands on, boots in the field experience. If some whippersnapper, google educated, wannabe wants to jump on my advise, and challenge 40 or 50 years of field experience that I am giving as a gift, for free.....yep....he is going to not get a warm welcome from me.

I did not come here to be liked, I came because I am 62, and have no children to give the truth of near 40 years experience tromping Alaska back country.

I think the whole Internet/forum tool sucks as a method of teaching or learning.

I feel anyone who joins the forum, states clearly what their skill'set is in the introduction section, then ask a serious question, and sits back and hears what is said, gets good advise. I know that I have.

Contrast that with the many who ask a question as "BAIT", so that "they" can expound there opinion of the perfect knife (this can be a good teaching/learning method). But their feathers get ruffled, and their feeling gets hurt when someone like Grey wolf, Crash, or Sarge show how little they really know about the subject.

And Last thing: if you got an issue with me be "Man" enough to PM me. Doug1980 and I got into it yesterday, one PM and it was resolved.

[wareagle69]

=hopeak;87735]
A lot of people make their first post a direct challenge


why so hostile, do you feel like they are questioning your knowlegde and experience? see the problem with the computer is that you cannot read body language facial expression or tone of voice so it is hard to guage the person asking the question. yes there are some (brad and adrian come to mind) that ask a question but do not want to hear the answer they just wanted to awe us with what they wanted to do, even going as far as to call the media, then in failure they dissappeared. how many of us have not failed at something? trick is to learn and move forward and to share that with others, this medium we use here is not personall so don't take it that way.

[Sourdough]

SORRY, Wareagle: the "TRUTH" takes it personal. And I'll defend the truth of the subject. It is a challenge to the truth, with half lies, and outright ignorance that I stand up and fight for....:)

A "TRUTH" like that quested for in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

[Sarge47]

Yeah, people leave 'cuz they feel we were rough on them. They also leave when Spammers & Trolls get out of hand, remember, WE? We're not going to please everybody, however I've decided to pretty much leave Newbies who don't want to post intros alone, but keep an eye on them if I think they're not what they should be. The thing is, that of those who responded in the negative about treating some Newbies harshly, it shows, to me, the wide range of personalities that we have here. Asking someone to read up BEFORE posting a question is NOT being mean, it's only logical. Asking for more info when someone says that they are here hoping to learn more is also logical. If they refuse, or don't like the answers then some of us feel offended & some don't. Different personalities! Here's the bottom line guys; Whatever they might find themselves up against in the great outdoors is gonna be a LOT tougher on them than we are. Oh, & Hopeak is right; the internet sucks as a teaching tool.:cool: A final note; we ARE being invaded by Trolls even as I write, so be alert & report anyone suspicious. For the record, thanks to his "inflatable" post, kiss Skeeterlips goodbye!:eek:

[crashdive123]

To go a little bit further, since Sarge mentioned The Freakin Bear. I apparently was the reason he tripped off line and made some 60 or so idiotic posts in the span of 30 minutes. Sarge deleted most of the posts the next morning. Here's what tripped him off. He introduced himself and included his website in the body of his post. I welcomed him and let him know about the rule of not posting a website that you are affiliated with in the body of your post, but that it was OK to put it in your signature. He posted his displeasure with the rule and proceeded to post and post and post. He thought it was odd that nobody stopped him, so he kept at it. Seems that on the forum he owns there are about 20 moderators that routinely ban several people a day. So did he come here planning on being a troll or was I rude and chased him away? You decide.

[doug1980]

Are there any Moderators here? I belong to several forums and they all have Mods. Might help weed out the spammers and trolls a bit. Also I hope my intro was sufficient for everyone to tell I am not a troll. Hopeak and I had a misunderstanding, which is easy to do here but were able to resolve it and move on. I'm here to learn from the "Masters" and maybe one day I'll know enough to teach it to others.

[crashdive123]

Doug - right now there are 2 - Sarge47 and Rick. Rick is away on business for a bit and doesn't get the chance to be online as much lately.

[Arsey]

I am being serious when I ask this --- how so? How were they treated "less than welcome"?

The people I was talking about were acquaintances from another site that I was on. We were all getting a bit jaded with that site and when I came across yours I hovered for a wee while but then decided to let them know that I thought the site looked good enough to join.
2 of them PM'd me to tell me they'd been on it before and had left but said I should try in case it was my kind of thing, the other one said he'd check it out.
After a week or so I got a PM from one of the original 2 to see how I'd got on. It was natural for me to relate the introduction 'thing' to him. At that point he told me that the reason he left was the way he'd been treated in answer some question he'd been asked.
The one who said he'd check it out, did. And he joined. But I haven't seen him on here since the first few times he inter-reacted. In fact I didn't even know it was him until he told me.
He PM'd me and said that he'd drop in from time to time but as it was quite a 'hard' site to get on in he'd stick with the original where at least they are friendly (ish)
So there you have it as far as I know it.:)

WareEagle - you have open eyes. Thanks for that.
OleWVcoot- you're a funny old coot. :D
hopeak- I'm sure that what you say is true. It is knowledge, like yours and those you mention that make this site different to others. Thank you for offering it. Please don't stop.
Sarge- I wouldn't have your job for anything. I couldn't imagine anything worse than being a mod on a forum. I understand completely that you are doing what you think is right. It must be incredibly frustrating to have to deal with 'trolls' and such all the time. No wonder you are suspicious.
You were right when you said that what people will have to face in real survival will be a hell of a lot tougher than anything you lot throw at them. It's not a bad thing to toughen up and grow a thicker skin.
And just so you know :rolleyes: I was dipped in Haggis before I was dropped on my head :D.
Oh...and by the way....'Arsey' means Lucky in Scots vernacular....I'd forgotten that :o.

[FVR]

Midget................

Hahahahahahaha......................

Bunch of midgets.........hahahahahahhahhhahahhaha...I'm going to pee my pants.

[chiangmaimav]

I am new to this forum but I have participated in 2 other forums since moving to Thailand, one for expats and one about martial arts, and from what I see people on this one are much more respectful and helpful than on the other ones. I have not seen anyone on this disrespected and it has been very helpful to me. I got alot of good advice about travelling with medication and it is very informative reading other people's writing. I live where there are very few English speaking people and no Americans nearby. So this forum not only gives me information but helps me keep in touch with other American people with same love of wilderness. Also, the westerners I know here are not outdoorsman, and the only people I talk to here about wilderness stuff are hilltribe and jungle people. I will say the forum people have treated me very kindly and made me welcome.
I just have one more thing to say. Perhaps this doesn't even apply, but I will say it in case. I am 55 years old and Iroquois and been around the wilds alot but I learn something new everyday. The people here who lived their whole lives in poverty in jungle have incredible knowledge of survival and especially jungle plants and animals and native medicine, and I learn from them every day and I learn from forum people. My point is, there is always more to learn if we open our mind. Also, even a man who lived 100 years in the jungle or in the arctic at one time was young and ignorant. Everyone must start someplace, and my teachers used to say there are no stupid questions, only stupid people. Survival is serious topic. It would be a tragedy if someday someone wanted to ask a question, but did not ask for fear they would be ridiculed. And then maybe they could die because they never learned the answer to a question they feared to ask. Not that that would ever happen here. I don't think it would. It is just a thought.

[FVR]

I just think that sometimes, there are those that just get themselves grumpy. I know I do in every now and then. I am also a smartarse.

I think I said this on another thread, but I've learned some pretty neat tricks from greenhorns who have just started. They bring a diff. way of thinking to this old or semi old fart.

I hate the jungle, yet I really liked it. I feel the same about Ga. swamps. I pref. the mountains, but dream of the coast and the big oceans and bays.

What I see happening sometimes, is that there are those that have been here awhile. They have participated in many threads that the newbees bring up in questions. Most times, the newbee won't do a historical search, but rather just come out and ask a question like, what's the best survival knife. My theory on this is, any knife available at the time.

We have gotten some spammers, most times ya can pick them out real fast, some are pretty tricky though.

So, my particular way is to be good natured and answer questions to the best of my knowledge. I enjoy doing that anyway, so if it actually helps someone, the better.

I think there should be a bit of leanancy towards newbees that are actually coming here to learn something. That being said, they also should realize, by looking at the member status and post numbers, you just might get a hard time, sometimes. If you have thin skin, a short fuse, or get upset easlily, maybe this is not the place for you. Because, ya gonna get a hard time now and then. He ll, the old timers get hard times, it's just the way.

So, what I'm saying is that if I affend you, oh well, get over it. Be a big boy (or girl) and move on. I have.

[Sarge47]

Arsey, C'mon man! Go back to your original "intro" & you'll see that Rick was the only one who thought you might be playing us! & he was being direct, not mean. It was cleared up really easy & remember, I welcomed you here as well. As for your pals, well, I don't see what's so hard about doing a proper intro. The only time anybody's been given a really hard time is when they start giving 'tude to the others 1st; otherwise they've been directed to one place or another; how is that "giving somebody a hard time"? I challenge any of those people that you're talking about to come on back & discuss it like adults. It's not hard to get on here, just be polite, that's all, and please keep the profanity out of your post; thanks in advance. (kissey, kissey):rolleyes:

BTW, we use to have an actual Aussie here by name of SOE Digital; he was a real tough customer & that's where we learned the term: "Numpty".:eek:

[klkak]

When I first joined this forum I made some comments in regards to my feeling about wolves. I got hammered from every direction. I got really mad at some folks on here for what they said but I did not run off with my tail between my legs-a-whimpering. I figure if you can't handle what the folk's here tell you, then get lost.

I've also been one to call someone on what they say in their post and I will continue to do it if what they are saying is bogus information. If you come on here looking to stir things up then you can expect me to "get-all-up-in-your-face".

I can't tolerate ignorance and given half a chance I will hurt an ignorant mans feelings.

My advice to newcomers is to enter with humility, your ears open and you mouth shut. If you have a question then ask it respectfully and accept the answers you get humbly. Also, "Don't ask what we think of your knife, gun, kit, etc." If you do you will get your feelings hurt!!!

[crashdive123]

even provoking a harmless animal will get it to bite sarge- i think that doing that sets people on the defensive automatically and can bring out the worst - for some folks nothing worse than rejection they are not used to it the way you are

So you would recommend - what? Handling it the way you did with Batcat?;)

[rockymtnchief]

If you have a question then ask it respectfully and accept the answers you get humbly. Also, "Don't ask what we think of your knife, gun, kit, etc." If you do you will get your feelings hurt!!!

Personally, I'd rather be humbled and lead down the right path than get in an emergency situation and find out that my gun/knife/kit is indeed a piece of crap. Have thick skin, listen, then make up your own mind.

BTW...what do you think of this rain poncho I made out of toilet paper?:D:D

[klkak]

Almost without fail when someone drops a post asking what everyone else thinks of their "whatever". If its a p.o.c. and someone says it is then the person dropping the post gets their feelings hurt. Its better not to ask. Take your stuff out into the bush and try it. You'll know soon enough whether its a p.o.c. or not.

As an example: I happen to think that Mora knives are junk and would never put one in a survival kit! Every one I've owned has failed.

If someone says "what do you think of my new Mora I bought for $14.00 to put in my survival kit?"

I'm gonna tell them "I think they are a p.o.c. but if you want to bet your life on a $14.00 knife thats your choice. You get what you pay for."

[klkak]

even provoking a harmless animal will get it to bite sarge- i think that doing that sets people on the defensive automatically and can bring out the worst - for some folks nothing worse than rejection they are not used to it the way you are

I hope you remember this post the next time you pedal in here as "Palerider":confused:

[trax]

Like Sarge said...be alert. Your country needs lerts.

[remy]

Anymore,I just report the ones I think are trolls,some I may give a short reply to,but other than that,if I call bs on someone,a certain member of the forum makes digs at my posts,so why bother.

Ooohhh...who would dare make digs at your posts ?...They are so intelligent and full of really useful stuff. Where are you at now...at least 2000 posts of "introduce yourself" ?
Which by the way...isn't that an insult ?
Go introduce yourself alright.

You guys are funny.
Most of you can dish it out pretty well (especially as a group), but when you are on the receiving end, you start whining, banning, reporting, complaining, ignoring...or being extremely passive aggressive and talking about others as "certain members".
And don't you dare tell me i am out of line...you asked for it.


Hopeak talks about his truths...but the truth is subjective.
Klkak cannot tolerate ignorance...let me smile a little...Intolerance IS ignorance.

Ah...this is stupid.

[rebel]

Ooohhh...who would dare make digs at your posts ?...They are so intelligent and full of really useful stuff. Where are you at now...at least 2000 posts of "introduce yourself" ?
Which by the way...isn't that an insult ?
Go introduce yourself alright.

You guys are funny.
Most of you can dish it out pretty well (especially as a group), but when you are on the receiving end, you start whining, banning, reporting, complaining, ignoring...or being extremely passive aggressive and talking about others as "certain members".
And don't you dare tell me i am out of line...you asked for it.


Hopeak talks about his truths...but the truth is subjective.
Klkak cannot tolerate ignorance...let me smile a little...Intolerance IS ignorance.

Ah...this is stupid.

SNAP! I knew this was coming...

[Sourdough]

Los Angles troll, disguised as a Pet Shrink.....:rolleyes:

or:

A Pet Shrink, disguised as a Los Angles Troll..........:p

[Sarge47]

You wanna tell everybody why you're not here under your old user name of Vol-West?:confused: And also why you keep taking down your posts & leaving? Who can't take it? We're still here under our original names, so be careful what you dish out as it can come back & bite you on the kiester!

[FVR]

Now boys.............maybe it's time to draw a pitcher of beer...............put on the gloves (boxing gloves), first one that hits the mat, loses, winner gets to either drink the beer or pour half of it on the guy on the mat, then ya'll can share the rest.

Actually, I never got why ol VW left, it was right after the scenario which was pretty good, for awhile. That's in the past and over and NOMDB.

[remy]

Good lord...how many times am i going to have to say this.

I am not here under my old user name because you did not like what i had to say at some point, and i was put on the "general ignore" thingy for something silly.

I re-registered under the name "Remy", and stayed under this new name ever since. I never tried to disguise myself, everyone knew who i was after a couple of posts yes ?
No need to go back to Volwest unless you guys want me to...same person behind the two names, so really does not make a difference to me.

I take down my posts, as i do in every forum i participate in.
I do it for personal reasons, for personal beliefs...it has nothing to do with you, or anyone here for that matter.
I took a break after the said scenario indeed, since i was silenced...if you want to believe i "ran away", be my guest.
The take down of the post is in no way related to what is going on at that time on the forum...i just did it again last week by the way.

May i remind you also, that i weathered more anger, stupidity and threats on this forum, than you and everyone combined here.
Guess what, i am still here...and i still take breaks once in a while.

You just can't leave it alone Sarge...you are like Nell.
Last week again you were referring to me leaving and taking down my posts in another thread. Leaving, even if it is for a while, might be more appropriate than rehashing stuff that happened more than a year ago.
Letting go is not your thing...OK...i get it.
Newbies, "the freakin bear", and me taking down my posts. Those are your favorite topics.

You proclaimed so many things about me, funny stuff too...if you guys really want to go back there...no problem...bring it on.
And by the way...the pattern is YOU.

[doug1980]

So when are we gonna get back to the whole "Wilderness Survival" stuff? Seems like a lot of drama around here.

[Arsey]

Arsey, C'mon man! Go back to your original "intro" & you'll see that Rick was the only one who thought you might be playing us! & he was being direct, not mean. It was cleared up really easy & remember, I welcomed you here as well. As for your pals, well, I don't see what's so hard about doing a proper intro. The only time anybody's been given a really hard time is when they start giving 'tude to the others 1st; otherwise they've been directed to one place or another; how is that "giving somebody a hard time"? I challenge any of those people that you're talking about to come on back & discuss it like adults. It's not hard to get on here, just be polite, that's all, and please keep the profanity out of your post; thanks in advance. (kissey, kissey):rolleyes:

BTW, we use to have an actual Aussie here by name of SOE Digital; he was a real tough customer & that's where we learned the term: "Numpty".:eek:

Hey, I got over it. I PM'd Rick straight away to see what the go was on this site, I couldn't work it out at all.

I'm just answering your question and trying to be helpful by giving you my perspective on something that you find hard to see.

What was the profanity?? You have to remember I'm Scottish. We punctuate and elaborate and describe with 'profanity'. Sometimes it's hard to reign it in....but I'll do my best OK just stop kissing me.

It's all good.

[crashdive123]

Ooohhh...who would dare make digs at your posts ?...They are so intelligent and full of really useful stuff. Where are you at now...at least 2000 posts of "introduce yourself" ?
Which by the way...isn't that an insult ?
Go introduce yourself alright.

You guys are funny.
Most of you can dish it out pretty well (especially as a group), but when you are on the receiving end, you start whining, banning, reporting, complaining, ignoring...or being extremely passive aggressive and talking about others as "certain members".
And don't you dare tell me i am out of line...you asked for it.


Hopeak talks about his truths...but the truth is subjective.
Klkak cannot tolerate ignorance...let me smile a little...Intolerance IS ignorance.

Ah...this is stupid.

In a thread that seems to have some basis in discussing not provoking others you have seemingly without provocation gone after Nell, Hopeak and Klkak. Maybe there was past cause for you to do this, maybe not. It seems to conflict a bit with your later statement of "You just can't leave it alone Sarge".

[wareagle69]

I hope you remember this post the next time you pedal in here as "Palerider":confused:

why klkak whatever do you mean?:cool:

[remy]

In a thread that seems to have some basis in discussing not provoking others you have seemingly without provocation gone after Nell, Hopeak and Klkak. Maybe there was past cause for you to do this, maybe not. It seems to conflict a bit with your later statement of "You just can't leave it alone Sarge".

Ah...my friend Crash.

What would you know about the basis of this thread ?
How is saying that the truth is a subjective thing going after Hopeak ?

How is saying that intolerance is ignorance going after Klklak ?
I thought it was more in the realm of noticing ironies.

Now Nell, yes, i went after her.
But that is between her and me...yes ?

As for my last statement...it stands.
Back to the "basis" of this thread...Well the word "pattern" comes to mind.
But "observed patterns", and "patterns" are of two different sort. The thread started being about patterns, and ended being about "observed patterns".
Do you know the difference ?

[crashdive123]

What would you know about the basis of this thread ?

I may suprise you on what I know. Or maybe not.


How is saying that the truth is a subjective thing going after Hopeak ?

How is saying that intolerance is ignorance going after Klklak ?
I thought it was more in the realm of noticing ironies.

I believe there were not so subtle implications that were intended to insult there, but if I was wrong, I will take you at your word.


Now Nell, yes, i went after her.
But that is between her and me...yes ?

Now that is just silly. Of course it is not between you and Nell, for if it were neither the 2,391 members, nor the thousands of visitors would have been able to read it.

[remy]

I may suprise you on what I know. Or maybe not.

.

I believe there were not so subtle implications that were intended to insult there, but if I was wrong, I will take you at your word.



Now that is just silly. Of course it is not between you and Nell, for if it were neither the 2,391 members, nor the thousands of visitors would have been able to read it.

"I may suprise you on what I know. Or maybe not."

Ok...in other words...it is a no ?

"I believe there were not so subtle implications that were intended to insult there, but if I was wrong, I will take you at your word"

I guess we have a different understanding of what an insult is then.

"Now that is just silly. Of course it is not between you and Nell, for if it were neither the 2,391 members, nor the thousands of visitors would have been able to read it."

What is silly, is you thinking that because you can read it, it belongs to you. The provocation, to use your language, was done on post number 2 by Nell. Most of the provocations i read directly or indirectly directed at me is a sign of unfinished business. Tensions not yet resolved.
I have three options to deal with this.
1-i ignore it.
2-i give a tangible life to the said tension...to maybe resolve it.
3-i make nice.

Since i have a hard time ignoring things, especially things pertaining to the realm of compulsions, or in broader terms the psyche, i owe it to both Nell and i to see if we can each learn something about the tension itself.
Making nice would only cover with gratuities, protocols and maybe dying flowers, the tension. I obviously do not believe in covering things up with trivial niceties.

Is your curiosity satisfied ?

[crashdive123]

My curiosity was never seeking to be satisfied. Just an observation.

[remy]

But what are observations fueled by if not curiosity ?

[RangerXanatos]

But what are observations fueled by if not curiosity ?

I've had to make observations in class not fueled by curiosity, but by grades. :p :D

[rebel]

I've had to make observations in class not fueled by curiosity, but by grades. :p :D

had or encouraged?

[trax]

[QUOTE=remy;87988][I].....Since i have a hard time ignoring things,..... /QUOTE]

So...you just can't leave it alone huh?

[palm stalker]

hello wolf pack.i sent a thread.i was abused a little.rick thought i was a troll. i want to introduce myself.im a 57 yo male living in fla.cent polk co.ive loved the woods since i was little . im not able to hike as im disabled.. i still enjoy ur forum. it gives me insite.i have read,and rereading all arhcives and threads,i have learnd so much.all sevreal thousand of them..please acsept my appology,for missspelling. hi all u folks in florida

[Sourdough]

Palm Stalker, why not just start over, I start over every day. Well a big warm welcome from Alaska........

[Sarge47]

Whatever you say dude. You were put on global ignore by the administrator for being a Troll. BTW, those posts that you couldn't mess with may still be around! There was a number of complaints filed against you & the only reason I'm bringing this up is your assinine remark about "dishing it out but not being able to take it." I really don't care if you take your post down or not, but I call it destroying the evidence that shows the "duplicity" that you've displayed in your posts now as opposed to then. (just noting some ironies.) You weren't allowed back on here under your old name, remember? So don't worry about how we treat Trolls here; it's not your concern; and, oh yes, another spammer just bit the dust. :cool:

[crashdive123]

Hello and welcome Palm Stalker.

[Sarge47]

My "flame alarm" just went off!:eek: Time to remedy the Remy situation...Now let's see, where IS that "ignore" button...OH! There you are...you little dickens! Ahh! Blessed silence!:D:cool:

[Sarge47]

hello wolf pack.i sent a thread.i was abused a little.rick thought i was a troll. i want to introduce myself.im a 57 yo male living in fla.cent polk co.ive loved the woods since i was little . im not able to hike as im disabled.. i still enjoy ur forum. it gives me insite.i have read,and rereading all arhcives and threads,i have learnd so much.all sevreal thousand of them..please acsept my appology,for missspelling. hi all u folks in florida
Welcome back dude!:D

[palm stalker]

tks sarge5 .thanks all

[palm stalker]

thanks crash

[klkak]

Make yourself comfortable Palm stalker. What the heck is a palm stalker? Isn't there a law against that?

[palm stalker]

lol klkak..the palms and palmettos,it hog country

[nell67]

Welcome back palmstalker!

[nell67]

"I may suprise you on what I know. Or maybe not."

Ok...in other words...it is a no ?

"I believe there were not so subtle implications that were intended to insult there, but if I was wrong, I will take you at your word"

I guess we have a different understanding of what an insult is then.

"Now that is just silly. Of course it is not between you and Nell, for if it were neither the 2,391 members, nor the thousands of visitors would have been able to read it."

What is silly, is you thinking that because you can read it, it belongs to you. The provocation, to use your language, was done on post number 2 by Nell. Most of the provocations i read directly or indirectly directed at me is a sign of unfinished business. Tensions not yet resolved.
I have three options to deal with this.
1-i ignore it.
2-i give a tangible life to the said tension...to maybe resolve it.
3-i make nice.

Since i have a hard time ignoring things, especially things pertaining to the realm of compulsions, or in broader terms the psyche, i owe it to both Nell and i to see if we can each learn something about the tension itself.
Making nice would only cover with gratuities, protocols and maybe dying flowers, the tension. I obviously do not believe in covering things up with trivial niceties.

Is your curiosity satisfied ?

Remy,if you believe that you and I have unfinished business,then bring it to me in pm,not on the forum. So very sorry if you believe that my post was directed at you,must be a little guilt on your part,eh? You think too much of yourself if you believe that I care one way or another what you think,it is quite posssible that you, in fact, think too much.

Now,if you think that we still have any unfinished business,you know how to use the pm's,right?

[RBB]

Hmmm, there seems to be something new attacking our site here; something a bit more subtle. I think some of the Newbies are actually Trolls who are not doing anything to get themselves banned but, instead, are asking foolish questions then sit back & laugh as some of the Wolves "chase their own tails" in answering. Note, if you will, that there has been a recent influx of Newbies that are either one of two types; those that intro & those that don't; & of those that do, most are a serious intro.

The ones that don't intro, or do so very weak, pop in & ask a really stupid question, like: "the nutritional value of animal poo", for example; or just post nonsense. Then we don't seem to hear from them anymore. I recently deleted some post that I considered "bogus" to see what the party in question might say; but they haven't even bothered to come back on yet. I don't want to be heavy-handed about this, though I have thought about just "locking down" suspicious posts & see what happens. What are some of your thoughts out there?:confused::cool:

I'd just take them at face value. There are some very ignorant people out there.

If they're doing it for laughs - who cares. There is hardly a thread where I don't learn something from the responses. Some of them (like the food value of poo) are good for a laugh on our part as well.

[chiangmaimav]

Hello Palmstalker. I like your name. Many palms here and I think I will stalk them. It sounds like fun, as they cannot run away and are easy to stalk. I am ignorant about this stuff. On the thai forum they are always talking about trolls but I am still unsure what they are. Does it mean someone who tells lies, or just says things to make other people angry? I do not understand flame or spammer either. I have another ignorant question. I can understand people getting angry talking about religion, or politics, or personal stuff. But why do people get angry about survival and wilderness stuff. If I said I had a knife or some boots or whatever that I think are good, and someone else doesn't like it, I would not take it personally. If someone gives some information or opinion, and someone else thinks it is wrong, then I think the decent thing is for the second person to say he does not agree with this and why. If people just say to the guy that he is an idiot, then naturally the person would be offended. But I am not saying this happens because I am new. Besides, it is an anonymous forum, so if someone insults you here, it is not really personal as they generally don't really know you anyway.

[remy]

trax,

The quote you chose is a typical example of taking things out of context...and not really understanding the difference between ignoring and leaving it alone.
Of course i can leave it alone...Not ignoring things is not synonymous with not leaving things alone ?!?!?
I can keep an eye on the apple pie in the oven (not ignoring), without putting my fingers in it (not leaving it alone).
I cannot ignore the participants of this place...that's just the way i am, but that does not mean that i do not leave things alone.

Sarge,

I was given a warning for "being rude" (can you believe that ? Me...rude ?)...i would have been fine with that, if you were not the rudest of us all...just ask newbies.
Obviously you care about what i do with my posts since you keep bringing it up. "Destroying the evidence"...lolll...why not.
Here is what you wrote on december 7 for example...
"As for the deleted posts, maybe it's just covering up evidence of "wrongdoing". I know of one case in point where a member has done this repeatedly after getting in trouble, then coming back later like he's "pure as the driven snow." My opinion on this? It frees up a lot of space otherwise taken up by unimportant stuff. Good Riddence!"

I had let that one go (leaving it alone, but not ignoring it for trax)...but here you are at it again!

So, if you know that i was not allowed back under my old name, why do you keep on asking me why i had to pick a new name ? Which by the way is absurd, since i am the same person.
And again, with your ignore button...you see, that is what i mean by you writing stuff about people, and then not wanting to hear the other side of things.
Just like you did with "Spiritman" when you stopped liking what he had to say. He did not agree with you once, and you pressed your precious little ignore button. You come on, accuse, make stuff up, bring stuff back, say stuff like "flame alarm" (when you are the first one to flame), and when it gets a little tricky, you look for your ignore button.

Case closed yes ?

Nell,

Lolll...Now you are going to try and make yourself believe that your post was not directed at me ?
Why not...
I will not "pm" you no...as you said yourself..."why bother".
What i will do though, is address posts which speak of unresolved tensions...as i do now.

In other words...i won't talk about it, if you stop bringing stuff up in the first place, directly or indirectly, consciously, or unconsciously, intentionally, or unintentionally.

[crashdive123]

Remy - believe it, or don't, but when Nell made post #2 it was not directed at you.

[crashdive123]

On the thai forum they are always talking about trolls but I am still unsure what they are. Does it mean someone who tells lies, or just says things to make other people angry? I do not understand flame or spammer either.

Here are some definitions (snippets from Wikipedia).

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site. In some cases, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they can be called "trolls". Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject.

Spam is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages. While the most widely recognized form of spam is e-mail spam, the term is applied to similar abuses in other media: instant messaging spam, Usenet newsgroup spam, Web search engine spam, spam in blogs, wiki spam, Online classified ads spam, mobile phone messaging spam, Internet forum spam, junk fax transmissions, and file sharing network spam.


But why do people get angry about survival and wilderness stuff.

If we knew the answer to that, there would be world peace.:D

[pgvoutdoors]

Here are some definitions (snippets from Wikipedia).

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Flaming is a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site. In some cases, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they can be called "trolls". Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject.

Spam is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to indiscriminately send unsolicited bulk messages. While the most widely recognized form of spam is e-mail spam, the term is applied to similar abuses in other media: instant messaging spam, Usenet newsgroup spam, Web search engine spam, spam in blogs, wiki spam, Online classified ads spam, mobile phone messaging spam, Internet forum spam, junk fax transmissions, and file sharing network spam.



If we knew the answer to that, there would be world peace.:D

I like the definitions, I myself know little of the lingo of the Internet. This is the only forum I bother to follow. I try to be strait forward, this is something I'm starting to learn is a little out of the ordinary on forums.

I see the battle between these "Trolls" and the regulars, and it's such a waste of time. It has led to quick and aggressive responses to many new members, and this I don't like. Too many good people have been caught in the cross-fire. I don't know what to do as a moderator, wouldn't take the job if you paid me, but I personally just steer clear of suspicious comments. I ignore them.

Good luck with this problem, just let me know when the artillery is called in so I can take cover. :rolleyes:

[remy]

Remy - believe it, or don't, but when Nell made post #2 it was not directed at you.

Who then ?

[nell67]

Who then ?That would be none of your business,your imagined problem with me is weighing heavy on your feeble mind.

I gave you an option to work out the problem you think we have,and you refused,too bad,could have been interesting in discovery.

[trax]

trax,The quote you chose is a typical example of taking things out of context...and not really understanding the difference between ignoring and leaving it alone.

remy, the response you've provided is a typical of someone who either can't get a joke or won't take one....and not really understanding the difference between someone poking a little fun at you and someone really giving a rat's a$$ about all this blather. Consciously, unconsciously, intentionally, unintentionally, surreptitiously, grammatically, ecumenically....

YAWWWWNNNN....naptime for Trax

[Sarge47]

remy, the response you've provided is a typical of someone who either can't get a joke or won't take one....and not really understanding the difference between someone poking a little fun at you and someone really giving a rat's a$$ about all this blather. Consciously, unconsciously, intentionally, unintentionally, surreptitiously, grammatically, ecumenically....

YAWWWWNNNN....naptime for Trax
...ole buddy! You & Nell need to do what I do when Remy is "off his meds"; click the "ignore" button.:eek::D

[Sarge47]

I'd just take them at face value. There are some very ignorant people out there.

If they're doing it for laughs - who cares. There is hardly a thread where I don't learn something from the responses. Some of them (like the food value of poo) are good for a laugh on our part as well.
I agree that posts like this are great targets for Wolf-Pack humor. I also know that there are some here who really don't mind answering the same question day in & day out. I hold people like that up as "Saints".:D

[remy]

Nell,
That's what i thought...


TRex,

The response you've provided is typical of someone who can't get a joke a little higher on the IQ poke...and not really understanding the difference between someone being dense and literal, and someone talking about apple pie !!!!!

I get your humor...i think you'll never get mine in the written form though. Consciously, unconsciously, intentionally, unintentionally...I'll leave you too alone yes ?

Have a good nap...you need one.

[Sarge47]

Hey, I got over it. I PM'd Rick straight away to see what the go was on this site, I couldn't work it out at all. SEE, YOU DISCUSSED IT LIKE ADULTS & IT ALL GOT WORKED OUT...THAT'S MY POINT!:cool:(btw, did he show you his Twinkee......suit?):rolleyes::D:eek::cool:

I'm just answering your question and trying to be helpful by giving you my perspective on something that you find hard to see.

What was the profanity?? You have to remember I'm Scottish. We punctuate and elaborate and describe with 'profanity'. I EDITED MOST OF IT OUT; REMEMBER, HERE IN AMERICA WE ARE MORE SENSITIVE ABOUT CERTAIN WORDS THAN OUR INTERNATIONAL NEIGHBORS. :D

Sometimes it's hard to reign it in....but I'll do my best OK just stop kissing me. WHOA, DUDE, THAT BREATH! HAVE YOU BEEN MAKING OUT WITH A 'ROO?

It's all good.

So talk at ya later lad...or is it mate?:confused:

[Sarge47]

I have another ignorant question. I can understand people getting angry talking about religion, or politics, or personal stuff. But why do people get angry about survival and wilderness stuff. If I said I had a knife or some boots or whatever that I think are good, and someone else doesn't like it, I would not take it personally. If someone gives some information or opinion, and someone else thinks it is wrong, then I think the decent thing is for the second person to say he does not agree with this and why. If people just say to the guy that he is an idiot, then naturally the person would be offended. But I am not saying this happens because I am new. Besides, it is an anonymous forum, so if someone insults you here, it is not really personal as they generally don't really know you anyway.
Well chiangmaimav, the thing is that people sometimes come on here, ask for an opinion on something they've already bought or built, & when the critisism gets negative they then get angry and become verbally abusive to some of the members. I guess it's because they didn't get the answer they want. Here's an example; say you just bought one of those "hollow-handled" piece-of-crap Rambo knives & you post something like: "Hey guys, my name is________& I just bought this great big Ka-nife off of e-bay for only a quarter...what do you all think?" Then comes what the person ask for...opinions. Unfortunately the opinons are not favorable but the knife-buyer is already committed and has asked a "loaded" question & now that person is "madder than a wet hen!" LOOK OUT WOLF-PACK!:eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

[rebel]

Hmmm, there seems to be something new attacking our site here; something a bit more subtle. I think some of the Newbies are actually Trolls who are not doing anything to get themselves banned but, instead, are asking foolish questions then sit back & laugh as some of the Wolves "chase their own tails" in answering. Note, if you will, that there has been a recent influx of Newbies that are either one of two types; those that intro & those that don't; & of those that do, most are a serious intro.

The ones that don't intro, or do so very weak, pop in & ask a really stupid question, like: "the nutritional value of animal poo", for example; or just post nonsense. Then we don't seem to hear from them anymore. I recently deleted some post that I considered "bogus" to see what the party in question might say; but they haven't even bothered to come back on yet. I don't want to be heavy-handed about this, though I have thought about just "locking down" suspicious posts & see what happens. What are some of your thoughts out there?:confused::cool:

It's hard to tell who your conversing with. Lately, I've seen some questions that made me think we were being "owned".

As for introductions can you trust them to be honest? For myself, and so it seems for others who initially join, it takes a period of adjustment. Intro or not. Adjustment for the individual and the other forum members to learn this person. After a little time you gain an understanding of where they are in life. If they want to be a part of this forum or here to satisfy their needs and move on.

I'm behind you locking down posts. I believe in the newspaper. If the dog craps on your floor, you don't pat him on the head and tell him how great he is.

[remy]

"...ole buddy! You & Nell need to do what I do when Remy is "off his meds"; click the "ignore" button"
Sarge.


So, let me see if i get this one right.
I could be wrong yes ?

When you talk about my behavior = you are in your right.
When i talk about your behavior = i am "off my meds".

When you are rude = you have tough skin.
When i am rude = i am a troll.

When you tell others to buzz off = you are moderating.
When i tell others to buzz off = i am given warnings.

Is that about right ?
Thank God for this forum, Rick is a people person. A reasonable person. A smart person.
You are a good yard dog though...i'll give you that.
Growl, bark and chase out.
It's not the "wolf pack", it's the dog pack. Clawing and showing teeth to defend what they think is theirs.

Woof.

[crashdive123]

I'm behind you locking down posts. I believe in the newspaper. If the dog craps on your floor you don't pat him on the head and tell him how great he is.

You've paid attention to Pops - good job.

[klkak]

What we need right now is some Cootism.

See'n as how I ain't Coot I'll bless you'all with some klkakism.

"If you can't stand your tail getting all twisted up-then quit put'n it in the fan"

[doug1980]

"...ole buddy! You & Nell need to do what I do when Remy is "off his meds"; click the "ignore" button"
Sarge.


So, let me see if i get this one right.
I could be wrong yes ?

When you talk about my behavior = you are in your right.
When i talk about your behavior = i am "off my meds".

When you are rude = you have tough skin.
When i am rude = i am a troll.

When you tell others to buzz off = you are moderating.
When i tell others to buzz off = i am given warnings.

Is that about right ?
Thank God for this forum, Rick is a people person. A reasonable person. A smart person.
You are a good yard dog though...i'll give you that.
Growl, bark and chase out.
It's not the "wolf pack", it's the dog pack. Clawing and showing teeth to defend what they think is theirs.

Woof.

I don't know you and I am new here but from reading all your posts I have realized that you may be the problem here. If you would just STOP replying and let it go as you keep saying that you do, but don't. Then maybe we could get back to the purpose of this forum. I joined to learn survival skills not read a bunch of whinning and crying. You claim you are not a Troll then stop stirring crap up, get off your high-horse and shut up. If I offend anyone than I am sorry but this is rediculous.

[chiangmaimav]

Thank you crashdive and sarge for taking the time to explain these things. Now I see what can happen. I think this troll stuff happens much more often on Thailand forum than this one. But I can also see where it could happen where someone who may not know very much about outdoor stuff and is new could ask a legitimate question and peoplemay think it is stupid question and guy is a troll. There are things that happen here in Thailand and Cambodia which are very bizarre to westerners, and if I mention it people may think I am a troll because it is so strange peoplemay think I make it upbut really it is true, though I do not write about so peo[ple do not think I am a troll.

[crashdive123]

Nah. Nobody's going to think you're a troll. IMO (in my opinion) that is why the introductions are important. Somebody that states they have x, y, or z level of experience kind of set up the expectation. So if somebody says they have very little experience, the questions aren't dumb, but rather from an inexperienced person. The other side of that is if somebody states that they are a wilderness survival instructor and asks "Has anybody seen one of these?" ....might raise some eyebrows. http://www.pjcj.net/yapc/yapc-eu-2006-enigmatic_perl/slides/images/match.jpg

[chiangmaimav]

That is pretty funny. I see what you mean. Over here as you may have read there were a lot of protests and the airports were taken over by the protestors. They also took over Government House. Police tried to remove the protestors by force but it was a big mess, people died and some lost limbs. Someone on forum here asked what is proper way to handle riot situation. I was supervisor of riot squad in maximum security prison for 15 years and been involved in many such situations and I answered this question. So numerous people get on with some really ridiculous theories of crowd control and such and claimed I did not know anything so I said the heck with it. But I know how people feel because if someone who admits they knew nothing of chemical agents and such came up with a ridiculous idea I did not mind as they admit they are not experienced. But when some guy who claimed to be a special forces veteran who was involved in crowd control operations came up with other stupid ideas, I knew he was just a liar and wasting people's time.

[remy]

I don't know you and I am new here but from reading all your posts I have realized that you may be the problem here. If you would just STOP replying and let it go as you keep saying that you do, but don't. Then maybe we could get back to the purpose of this forum. I joined to learn survival skills not read a bunch of whinning and crying. You claim you are not a Troll then stop stirring crap up, get off your high-horse and shut up. If I offend anyone than I am sorry but this is rediculous.

Hi to you too big boy.

Hey buddy, you cannot tell someone to shut up and stop stirring crap, since that is exactly what it does, stir crap that is. And yeah, you don't know me, and you are new here.

Now...seeing the growing amount of views this "crap" is getting...i wonder if somewhere, somehow, there is something deeper happening.

By the way...you are not obliged to read this thread. So imagine contributing !

[rebel]

Now...seeing the growing amount of views this "crap" is getting...i wonder if somewhere, somehow, there is something deeper happening.

Maybe, winter boredom.

[klkak]

(Austrian accent)
How do you do! I am klkak. Doctor of psychology.:cool:

(average American accent)
Doug, I have taken off my fur hat and put on my doctor hat to help you understand what we are dealing with in regards to he I shall leave unnamed.

(Austrian accent)
He seems to have a subconscious neurotic mechanism of compensation that he developed as a result of feelings of inferiority. The feelings of inferiority in this individual are likely brought on by real or perceived social rejection.

(average American accent)
He has difficulty discerning between the two.

(Austrian accent)
He has what some would call a Superiority complex. In everyday usage this means he has a very high opinion of himself.

In psychology it refers to the same attitude, however in psychology it is considered that the attitude is actually a way to hide or compensate for feelings of inferiority.

Those exhibiting the superiority complex commonly project their feelings of inferiority onto others they perceive as beneath them, possibly for the same reasons they themselves may have been ostracized, i.e. viewing most, possibly all others as "ugly" or "stupid", and beneath oneself. Accusations of arrogance and cockiness are often made by others when referring to the individual exhibiting the superiority complex.

Behaviors related to this mechanism may include an exaggeratedly positive opinion of one’s worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, the persistent attempt to correct others regardless of whether they are factually correct or not, vanity, extravagant style in dressing (with intent of drawing attention), excessive need for competition, pride, sentimentalism and affected exaltation, snobbishness, a tendency to discredit other’s opinions, forcefulness aimed at dominating those considered as weaker or less important, credulity, and so on...,

Superiority and inferiority complex are often found together as the different expressions of the same pathology and the two complexes can exist within the same individual.

Superiority can also be caused by PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

(average American accent)
To top it all off he appears to be highly educated.

Wow, I haven't put that much thought into psychology since I was in school.

I hope that helps you understand. :) Besides, banter like this keeps things interesting and provides an outlet for some of the days stress's.

Ok, I'm done playing doctor and I'm putting my fur hat back on.

The Doctor Has Left The Building!!!:D

[Sarge47]

How do you do! I am klkak. Doctor of psychology.:cool:

Doug, I have taken off my fur hat and put on my doctor hat to help you understand what we are dealing with in regards to he I shall leave unnamed.

He seems to have a subconscious neurotic mechanism of compensation that he developed as a result of feelings of inferiority. The feelings of inferiority in this individual are likely brought on by real or perceived social rejection. He has difficulty discerning between the two.

He has what some would call a Superiority complex. In everyday usage this means he has a very high opinion of himself.

In psychology it refers to the same attitude, however in psychology it is considered that the attitude is actually a way to hide or compensate for feelings of inferiority.

Those exhibiting the superiority complex commonly project their feelings of inferiority onto others they perceive as beneath them, possibly for the same reasons they themselves may have been ostracized, i.e. viewing most, possibly all others as "ugly" or "stupid", and beneath oneself. Accusations of arrogance and cockiness are often made by others when referring to the individual exhibiting the superiority complex.

Behaviors related to this mechanism may include an exaggeratedly positive opinion of one’s worth and abilities, unrealistically high expectations in goals and achievements for oneself and others, the persistent attempt to correct others regardless of whether they are factually correct or not, vanity, extravagant style in dressing (with intent of drawing attention), excessive need for competition, pride, sentimentalism and affected exaltation, snobbishness, a tendency to discredit other’s opinions, forcefulness aimed at dominating those considered as weaker or less important, credulity, and so on...,

Superiority and inferiority complex are often found together as the different expressions of the same pathology and the two complexes can exist within the same individual.

Superiority can also be caused by PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)

To top it all off he appears to be highly educated.

Wow, I haven't put that much thought into psychology since I was in school.

I hope that helps you understand. :) Besides, banter like this keeps things interesting and provides an outlet for some of the days stress's.

Ok, I'm done playing doctor and I'm putting my fur hat back on.

The Doctor Has Left The Building!!!:D
Holy crap! That sounds like me! :eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

[nell67]

Oh My God! He thinks I'm UGLY????:confused:

DR.klkak,I need an appointment with you,I don't know if I can handle it...I may have to... I may have to....:eek::eek::D

[FVR]

Doug,

This is the General Chat, this is where this kind of banter goes on.

There are many other forums here where you can learn something.

[klkak]

Holy crap! That sounds like me! :eek::rolleyes::D:cool:

I would encourage you to talk to a professional about this condition. Start with your wife. If that doesn't help then you could try her mother....,:rolleyes::D

[klkak]

Oh My God! He thinks I'm UGLY????:confused:

DR.klkak,I need an appointment with you,I don't know if I can handle it...I may have to... I may have to....:eek::eek::D

Now, now young lady we'll hear none of that. Just remember that UGLY is in the eye of the beholder. He is trying to see you as he see's himself.

[nell67]

Now, now young lady we'll hear none of that. Just remember that UGLY is in the eye of the beholder. He is trying to see you as he see's himself.
Thanks Dr. I just didn't know how I was gonna live with myself ;)

[nell67]

P.S. Dr.,are you mad at Sarge? That advise on whom to talk to,well it seems a little iffy!

[Sarge47]

I've got Remy on my "ignore" list so's I don't have to read his crap, (has it been 28 days already?) yet you yahoos are quoting his stuff in your posts, which sorta defeats the purpose. Dog pack? Arf! Arf!:D:rolleyes::cool:

[tsitenha]

Tensions are getting high on a lot of boards, this is not unusual, maybe the stress of the holiday season mixed with the economic instability, the cold weather and all.

like Nell said : Don't worry be happy :p

[klkak]

Nell, I'm sitting here laughing at the thought of what the reaction to my post is going to be. It's to bad I can't read any of his post. I have no doubt they are going to be quite colorful.

I just had a vision of someone running up to a momma grizzly and kicking her cub then slapping her face.

[laughing beetle]

Tensions are getting high on a lot of boards, this is not unusual, maybe the stress of the holiday season mixed with the economic instability, the cold weather and all.

like Nell said : Don't worry be happy :p

or "hakuna matata"?

[nell67]

Nell, I'm sitting here laughing at the thought of what the reaction to my post is going to be. It's to bad I can't read any of his post. I'm have no doubt they are going to be quite colorful.

I just had a vision of someone running up to a momma grizzly and kicking her cub then slapping her face.
I'll give ya the Cliff notes when I get 'em!;)

[klkak]

P.S. Dr.,are you mad at Sarge? That advise on whom to talk to,well it seems a little iffy!

No. I was just hoping if did ask those people he would come back here and tell us what they said.:D I'm just a little bit sadistic.:eek:

[klkak]

I'll give ya the Cliff notes when I get 'em!;)

I can hardly wait.:D

[nell67]

No. I was just hoping if did ask those people he would come back here and tell us what they said.:D I'm just a little bit sadistic.:eek:
LMAO,just wondering,cuz ya know,just seemed like you were sending him to the gallows,and I was wondering if maybe we should put a disclaimer on that post?:D:p

You have dibs on his ban button dontcha?

[klkak]

(In a Latin accent)
Disclaimers? Disclaimers?........we don't need no stinking disclaimers!:D

[Sarge47]

..anybody ever hear of a so-called professional in the field of psychology get his/her undies in a bunch, insult people, throw a hissy fit, tear down all of his/her posts, then keep coming back like nothing ever happened?:eek: Don't they have a professional career with patients & all to take up their time? :confused:Inquiring minds are curious.:cool:

[doug1980]

Never knew there was an ignore list....Ah now that's better.

[Sarge47]

Never knew there was an ignore list....Ah now that's better.
I use it as a self-imposed self-dicipline.:cool:

[Ole WV Coot]

..anybody ever hear of a so-called professional in the field of psychology get his/her undies in a bunch, insult people, throw a hissy fit, tear down all of his/her posts, then keep coming back like nothing ever happened?:eek: Don't they have a professional career with patients & all to take up their time? :confused:Inquiring minds are curious.:cool:

I know more bartenders that are better psychologists that pointed me in the right direction. I had a profile done one time and the shrink told me I didn't have the right attitude when he asked me if I would kill another person if I thought my life was in danger, I think I could have beat the draft if I had lied.:eek: Professional opinion from the other side: He's one sick puppy and needs wormed.

[crashdive123]

I like to have fun as much as the next person. Back and forth banter is often amusing, fun and good spirited. Seems like this thread is getting a wee bit out of hand and has less of the good spirited component in it. Let's all move along or else I'm locking this thread down (oh wait, I can't do that) Well you get my drift anyway.

[FVR]

I really don't know what the problem is with Remy, I kind of like his posts. Sometimes long, but his direction to the subject is diff. from what many here would take.

Okay, some are a bit long, and I have to read them a couple times to try and get the full meaning, but hey, we are who we are.

So, keep posting Remy.

[edr730]

A certain degree of hostility and suspicion toward strangers is, in itself, a basic survival instinct. Primative peoples, as well as some in small communities, balanced this instinct with desire to cooperate. On one hand, a community would not wish to reveal it's resistance to invasion by an aggresive adversary. On the other, a community did not want to eliminate the advantages of trade of valuable goods and knowledge. These posts are an example of how a community would deal with this age-old problem (and other problems) though council.
I did read the post on eating "poo". I'm not sure if it was serious either. However, dogs always eat human feces on a regular basis without ill effects and I don't stop them from doing so. I don't "kiss" them. Dogs can eat human feces.....it's well documented that we can't. Other animals can consume plants that would make us ill....poison ivy is one that comes to mind...

[tsitenha]

However, dogs always eat human feces on a regular basis without ill effects and I don't stop them from doing so.

Documented yes, healthy no, spreads bacteria, parasites, viruses etc... anything that is carried by the "depositor"

[remy]

Ok...We've gone this far...we might as well learn something from this thread.
It is going to be long...

What have we learned ?
Well, a great deal about group behavior...no ?
Mostly, we have 4 groups.
One group made of the "good guys"...or the majority in presence if you will. I say "good", i could have said "strawberry", it does not really imply anything since before Man came up with this adjective, this planet was doing just fine without it. Also note, that "good" as we understand it today, rests on ideas more or less subjective and relative.
The "good guys" are as follow, for the duration of this thread: Sarge, Nell, Klkak, Coot, Trax, and whomever wants to join.

So we have "the good guys".

Then we have of course the opposite of this group, without it, the group would collapse under the mechanics of having nothing else to oppose its forces to, or from.
I, obviously, am this opposing force for the duration of this thread.

A third group is then formed, by the simple contact of those two forces. Those two forces, which we have named "good" and "its opposite" create the third force..."the savior".
The savior, is in our case Crash for the duration of this thread.
Now his role, is not necessarily to be objective, but to "restore peace"...or in other words, to join opposite forces and neutral forces into one...to fuse if you will. This fusion, translates into : "come on guys, let's not do this, instead, let's do that". Mind you that the "that", only serves the savior's ideal, and not the whole of the forces.

But a forth group appears...this group is composed of individuals not likely to "join" a certain force, or a certain promise, since as you all know it, a force is a promise.
Those individuals are actually the key to this soup...but we will talk more about them later.

In any situation, where a group of humanoids share the same space and time, those 4 groups will be created. The four directions if you will.
I talked about influences in many of my posts...influence is power...as in and i will say it again for the late comers, 3 individuals are in a boat, if those individuals row in 3 different directions, the one with the most power will make the boat go his way.

So it would seem that the direction of a group, is determined and governed by a certain influence, a certain power, which does not necessarily represent the whole of the group. This is why some semi-intelligent bipeds always talk about eliminating the "leader" of a group first in case of a threat where more than one individual is present. The leader has enough power to steer the boat his way, but this does not mean that the group, without the one doing the most rowing, will keep the tradition, the direction. (does this sound familiar to you ? traditions, evolution...)

We can see this phenomenon with the sudden appearance of individuals like Doug for example (we Pm'ed each other by the way, and everything is cool) . Out of nowhere, a seemingly "non-rower" jumps in the boat, and picks up a paddle, and contributes to the direction.
Was this a conscious choice ?
Why not jump in my boat ? Or in the "saviors" boat ?
Why jump at all ?

Well, because in a group situation, the numbers are paramount.
It all comes down to math, and instincts.
The greater the numbers, the greater the chances of surviving.
Yes, but you are going to say that most of us are loners, that we do not like groups to start with. And i will say, no. Numbers are not necessarily made of bodies, they are also made of mentalities, of traditions, of directions, of ideas...etc.
If you are lost with a group, and you decide to do west with your buddy, and 12 people decide to go east, whomever remains in doubt, will 99% of the time go with the numbers.

You are here on this forum, because you like being among individuals who "share" the same interest. Share ? Interesting...you are already numbers, since i can multiply you and divide you.

At any moment, i can recapitulate you as a group. You move like one, you act like one...this is why certain threads appear about newbies for example, about "outsiders". Outsiders to what if not a group ? And what is the glue of this group if not a shared direction ? A shared mentality ? Shared ideas ? Shared traditions now ?
Traditions ? Well yes...introducing yourself for example has become a tradition here. And the appearance of traditions, are the first signs of a force gaining power. In doing so this force can regulate "who belongs", and "who does not", by implementing rationalizations as in : "if you do not introduce yourself, it means you are not one of us"...maybe you are bad, maybe you are a scary creature, a threat, and our memory summons words like Troll.

The image of a creature threatening power. Threatening an artificial cohesion...threatening a certain mentality.
So in turn we invent totems...primitive thinking tends to flourish and grow in the form of animal totem. The bear, the beaver for more maladapted minds, the wolf.
Ah...the wolf.
What a find...the same totem as the Romans.
The outmost representation of power in history.

My stand has nothing to do with the individualization of promises...it has to do with traditions, with the development of power, and the resolution of influences.
The symbolism thrown around on this site since my arrival has been astonishing...yet you refuse again and again to look at it.
It is pure survival indeed...a new kind of survival.

The development of forum based groups, is fascinating.
Within months, we can see the formation of power, of intent, of motives, of influences, of traditions.
The size of the window, ever more catapulting the member into his own desires.

As any good group would have it, we have, just as with ancient civilizations and cultures, the ability to ban. To excommunicate. To silence, to pressure, to mock...etc.
But haven't you notice that in our history books, the numbers are not always objective ? What was the decision of banning Bragg based on for example ?
Ok, you are going to say that he literally asked for it. Ok...good enough for army work i guess, but what pushed Bragg to "ask for it" ?
What is the symbolism behind this "social suicide" ? What does it mean for us the banners ? What does it say about us as a group ?

To be continued...

[FVR]

Remy,

You thread killer.

Actually, what you speak of was shown in the scenario that took place a year back. I believe it's human nature to flock together, then once flocked, sub groups slowly try to position and control. The groups may co-exist, yet be in constant competition and worse. The members of the groups, in their own way will jockey for position to further their ideals.

There are those that can walk from one group to the other with ease, yet are always held in suspicion. Some intermediataries may even be held to certain levels of respect, but in truth, the subgroups know that they may at anytime cross or sell out one or another.

And Bragg, don't know why he got banned. I had words with him early on about something stupid, we both typed some terrible BS, but we did get over it. I don't think we ever apologized to one another, we just moved forward. Which is how it should be. Apologies are not always warranted, especially when one holds their views close to heart. Matter of fact towards the end, I'd give him crap and he would return it the same, all in fun.

His economic posts did bring something to the table, a survival level that many don't want to acknowledge.

Just ramblings of one who hates to watch tv.

[Sarge47]

I actually read part of your last post, but didn't read through as I found it quite boring, but that is not why I am posting this. I disagree with you on one thing...there are no "good" guys here or "bad" guys. As the British singer/songwriter Dave mason wrote, "there is only you & me & we just disagree." So what? You might remember that back in the day I asked you a question from my Sociology 101 class. Well here's something else straight out of the textbook. This is a "social" group, hence we look at sociology. All groups need "Norms" to survive, both formal & informal. Formal norms are known as laws & are usually clear-cut & iron-clad. Informal norms are a bit more vague; like socially acceptable Customs &/or manners & what a group might expect in that way.

Everybody who signed on here did so with their given consent regarding the rules that Chris, the administrator, set in place. Those are our "formal Norms" & they're NON-NEGOTIABLE. You agreed to it & that's what allows you to be part of this forum until you "step over the line." If you do I'll do what I have to do & I know that you know that.

Our informal norms are a bit more relaxed, like the way some of us want "intros" & others don't; at the end of the day it's a matter of personal opinion.

Then there's the job of the Mod, to try & keep order, & that's what I do. Whatever you see in me, whatever you might think, whatever you have to say in regards to my personality or whatever doesn't matter to me, I like me. You can't change that, no one can. It's been tried since I was 5 years old. I don't hate you, I don't even hate your posts, I just don't "get into them". However there are those that do & that's whats important to me; just one of MY informal norms I guess. So I let those who enjoy them do just that & those that don't vent their feelings as well. I don't know if you can understand my simple philosophy, but that's what I have & the way I am.:cool:

[Dave Johns]

Ahhh. I wondered why the threads were getting quiet. Good to know that infighting exists everywhere, even in Cyberspace.

So, its been 2 days. Is the war over?

Ok! May we resume the chatting about the end of the freakin world, and cancel the *****ing? I gots a lot to learn.


EDIT: You guys have auto-edit turned on? Heh.

[klkak]

Sarge, I hope you don't mind if I add a few words about groups.

The developmental process of groups can be viewed in several ways. Firstly, it is useful to know the persons who compose a particular group. (This is where introductions come in)
• People bring their past experiences
• People come with their personalities (their perceptions, attitudes and values)
• People also come with a particular set of expectations
• The priorities and expectations of persons comprising a group can influence the manner in which the group develops over a period of time

Stages
Viewing the group as a whole we observe definite patterns of behavior occurring within a group. These can be grouped into stages.

FIRST STAGE
The initial stage in the life of a group is concerned with forming a group. This stage is characterized by members seeking safety and protection, tentativeness of response, seeking superficial contact with others, demonstrating dependency on existing authority figures. Members at this stage either engage in busy type of activity or show apathy.

SECOND STAGE
The second stage in a group is marked by the formation of dyads and triads. Members seek out familiar or similar individuals and begin a deeper sharing of self. Continued attention to the subgroup creates a differentiation in the group and tensions across the dyads/triads may appear. Pairing is a common phenomenon.

THIRD STAGE
The third developmental stage is marked by a more serious concern. The dyads/triads begin to open up and seek out other members in the group. Efforts are made to establish various norms. Members begin to take greater responsibility for their own group and relationship while the authority figure (moderator) becomes relaxed.

FOURTH STAGE
This is a stage of a fully functional group where members see themselves as a group and get involved. Each person makes a contribution and the authority figure (moderator) is also seen as a part of the group. Group norms are followed and collective pressure is exerted to ensure the effectiveness of the group.

Stay tuned. I may feel the need for further intellectual regurgitation...,

[chiangmaimav]

This is very heavy stuff. I cannot believe I read all this, but I am new to this and wondered what it is all about but 1 thing confuses me. I do not think the same questions about group survival of a tribe, a village or even a country apply to internet forum. This group only exists on internet. The members are anonymous and don't generally know each other, and in some cases are separated by thousands of miles. The worst that can happen on internet forum is to be banned from forum, which can make you sad or angry, but not the same as being murdered or imprisoned or banished from the tribe, which could happen in real world. And also if people all row a boat differently no matter who is trongest the boat will just go in a circle and go nowhere.

[Sarge47]

Great posts to both of you! Klkak & Chiang! Chiang, look at all this as a learning tool regarding groups as in any survival situation regarding a large group of people it will be pretty much what Klkak posted, not just on the forum.:cool:

[Sarge47]

Ahhh. I wondered why the threads were getting quiet. Good to know that infighting exists everywhere, even in Cyberspace.

So, its been 2 days. Is the war over?

Ok! May we resume the chatting about the end of the freakin world, and cancel the *****ing? I gots a lot to learn.


EDIT: You guys have auto-edit turned on? Heh.
The end of the world? That's not what this site is for. It's about "Wilderness Survival". No one knows whats going to happen to the world, just wild guesses.
:cool:

[trax]

We need Norms to survive??? Awesome, there's a moose living at WE's place....called Norm! (aw man does it get any better than this?)

[klkak]

This is very heavy stuff. I cannot believe I read all this, but I am new to this and wondered what it is all about but 1 thing confuses me. I do not think the same questions about group survival of a tribe, a village or even a country apply to internet forum. This group only exists on internet. The members are anonymous and don't generally know each other, and in some cases are separated by thousands of miles. The worst that can happen on internet forum is to be banned from forum, which can make you sad or angry, but not the same as being murdered or imprisoned or banished from the tribe, which could happen in real world. And also if people all row a boat differently no matter who is strongest the boat will just go in a circle and go nowhere.

I have one more regurgitation on the subject of groups then I'm done with it cause it's giving me the same kinda headache I used to get in school. Besides its more fun being the "lower class" me then the "intellectual" me. There is less stress involved.

Ok so here goes.

Groups ranging in size from a few people to thousands and millions within a “community” are forming within cyberspace. Many of the classic social-psychological principles of group dynamics can be applied in understanding and improving the functioning of these groups - such as issues concerning leadership, communication patterns, group boundaries, cohesion, alliances and sub groupings.

However, given the special psychological features of cyberspace, on-line groups also can be quite different than in-person groups. Text-only communications, equalization of status, and the opportunity for altering or hiding one's identity are all unique monkey wrenches tossed into the on-line group process.

New social-psychological principles are needed to account for these varied and unusual group dynamics in cyberspace.

Every on-line community seems to go through the same cycle:

1. Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush a lot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls).

2. Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting).

3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up).

4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions).

5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed)

6a. Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious post; newbie’s are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen by private email and are limited to a few participants; the purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each other on keeping off-topic threads off the list).

OR

6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly every few weeks; many people wear out several 'delete' keys, but the list lives contentedly ever after).

In simple terms: A group is a group and a community is a community. Sarge is in charge, Crash is the son of God, Coot is really old, Nell isn't ugly, Remy thinks he's the smart one and Mac is a "Youtube" movie star.:D (sorry Mac, couldn't help myself)

[klkak]

Now I have to go take some Imitrex.

[remy]

Ah...you see...we are going to learn something from this thread.

FVR,
That thread you speak of was indeed interesting...and you point out something important, actually it is one word : "position".

Sarge,
Like i said, i wrote "good guys", but i could have written "strawberry" all the same.
I used these particular terms to emphasis on group mentality...for there are many levels to our understandings.
I also never argued about the laws of this forum. I understand perfectly well your job, Chris's job, and mine. What i have noticed though, as in every other "social group", is that some can "get away" with certain behaviors more than others...that a certain hypocrisy tends to make its way within the fabrics of the laws.
For example, "you" (by you i mean whomever has the power to do it), just erased a post of mine that was not out of line, by this forum's laws. On the other hand, some members can be rude, insulting, and receive a different treatment.

But we will talk more about that later...

Klkak,

I have another way of saying what you are regurgitating.
The way i see it, there are only three stages.

-confrontation: the moment where forces are gauged. Without confrontation, forces cannot recognize each others.

-forgiveness: the moment which comes after recognizing one another, when we can truly accept to position ourselves in rapport to the other individual.

-collaboration: the moment when we can "do" together, because a common language finally exists, a common goal, a common direction.

Same thing happens here, and in fact most silly movies are based on those three steps also. I hate you, I forgive you, I work with you.

We could go further here in trying to understand bonding, and talk about "natures", which in certain environments would give us a unfathomable edge in understanding others, to better create a survival chance in a group.
Any special op group, or field personnel follows courses in basic psychology for this purpose...but like everything, the understanding of motivations, the understanding of dynamics, of group mentality and who knows what is based on concepts that for the most part have not grown or changed since freud last puffed on his cigar...hence your regurgitation.

The first mistake in the assessment of group behavior, is to believe we are all different...we are all unique, and will survive based on our uniqueness. This is false. This religion of the self, of the individual, has been developed to make us think that we are free. That we can do what we want, and in turn is used as leverage. It is a mockery that divides us to the point of making us fear everything and anything...and in the end, our freedom is only expressed through silly displays of "look what i have", "look at what i can do". The traps of individualistic mentalities are just too strong and subtle for anyone to even realize their fate.
You can be in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, and still think like millions do...act like millions do, do like millions do, react like millions react...and so on. Because our heritage is beyond location.

Sarge tells us that "nobody here really knows about one another" (old thread).
Here is this lack of freedom speaking, this individualistic movement in the open...because for us, knowing one another means knowing our habits, what kind of car we drive, what kind of coffee we drink, what kind of movies we like, what kind of jobs we do, where we live, what are our hobbies...this is what defines us ?
It is the same all over the world...we are all the same. "Who we are" is based on a series of likes and dislikes, old habits and compulsions picked up at some point or another...maybe even at a time we cannot even recall.

I want to go back on the subject of Trolls...but before i do...

Chiangmaimav,

Tribes, villages, or internet forums are of the same mathematics, of the same principles. That the group exists on internet or in the form of a village, this group still exists. Miles, or should we say distances, have no effects on relationships. We think they do, and often create limits but those limits are of ideas. Being banned, is being rejected...the consequences can be as devastating, for once again, you think of your being as a single entity, when in fact, each realm is engaged by everything we do, see, hear or touch.
If you watch closely a muai tai match, you can see that each blow, each kick, affects much more than the point of impact. It affects different realms, the physical, the psychological, the physiological.

As for rowing...try it out...get a boat, 3 of your friends, and all row in a different direction...you will see, maybe after 10 minutes, 20 minutes, that the boat will move in one direction only. I assure you.

Ok...trolls.
Let's take the definition that Crash gave us.
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

So, by this definition, we are all trolls.
The key word here is "emotional". What is interesting for example, is the use of "smilies".
Those little faces, used by some to convey emotions.
Just on this thread, the frequent users of smilies are the same people being after "trolls"...

I can take any thread and find hundreds of posts aimed at provoking an emotional response, or off topic. Sarge saying he finds what i write boring, is based on emotional responses, or the provocation of such emotional response. Klkak is doing the same thing...yet, those provocations are not seen nor registered as "trolling". How many times have we seen Sarge write heavily charged posts based on emotional responses or the provocation of ? :cool:

About Klkak's last post.
Your regurgitation lacks understanding. And by the way, you bringing up "class" is extremely telling of your opinion regarding what or who i am, and your general understanding of groups. In other words, you are regurgitating obsolete data, you mindlessly copied.

I'll just take this one:
"However, given the special psychological features of cyberspace, on-line groups also can be quite different than in-person groups. Text-only communications, equalization of status, and the opportunity for altering or hiding one's identity are all unique monkey wrenches tossed into the on-line group process."

Those things are not unique to cyberspace.

"Text only" communication implies that you think that the participants have too much room for interpretation, the truth is, that verbal communication is not much better, we still interpret.
the mistake here, is to think that the medium dictates understanding, when in fact, what dictates understanding is you.

"Equalization of status" is even more moronic. Can't you see status everywhere ? Unless of course, your definition of status is a new one.

"Altering or hiding one's identity"...If by identity you mean my social security number, it is the same. If by identity you mean where i live, this location will tell you nothing about who i am. If by identity you mean my hobbies or my profession, those things are only part of who i am. In the flesh or here, who we really are is so vast and mysterious, that defining oneself by attributes often given to us is a great tragedy of the human experience.

In the end, you somewhat missed the point.
It is not the psychological realm that is different, it is the physical.
You could have talked about temperament, natures, body language, but in your attempt to narrow a certain "class", you in fact were governed by it.
If you only knew where i come from, you would be ashamed to bring class into this.

What else ?

[klkak]

About Klkak's last post.
Your regurgitation lacks understanding.

You are wrong! I do have an understanding.


And by the way, you bringing up "class" is extremely telling of your opinion regarding what or who i am and your general understanding of groups.

"I think" you may have a little self esteem issue. My bringing up "class" had absolutely nothing to do with you.

My exact words were: Besides its more fun being the "lower class" me then the "intellectual" me. There is less stress involved.

I believe the use of the word "me" indicates I was talking about "me". Not you. There for has nothing to do with my general understanding of groups but rather it has everything to do with my general understanding of "me".


In other words, you are regurgitating obsolete data, you mindlessly copied.

You are absolutely right Remy and my data may be obsolete. It's been a few years since I was in school and most of what I know about group dynamics I learned there and haven't had much use for since then.

Did I mindlessly copy? What are you saying? Of course I didn't! I was using my mind, eyes, fingers, mouse, keyboard..., Same as you!

Every single word you have put down in this thread concerning "groups" is nothing more then your plagiarized version of something you learned from someone else or read in a book authored by someone else. You did not magically come by your vast knowledge. Someone else gave it to you. Just like "me".

Now I'm going to revert to the "me" that everyone knows and loves.

[remy]

I did not say you did not have an understanding, i said your regurgitation lacked understanding.

As for my self esteem, its doing fine loll.
The class thing has everything to do with groups and all of us, but since i cannot speak for all of us, i replied in the first person...Your sentence implies that "lower class" and "intellectual" states do not mix. It means that you cannot be intellectual, and low class at the same time...or low class and also intellectual. It is one of those perverted implications of our specie...you just don't see it that way, and hide your limitations behind the word "me", thinking it will free you from certain responsibilities.

The difference between copying, and mindlessly copying is what i was referring to. Hence your regurgitation lacking understanding. If you thought a little about what you were writing, with your little fingers, your little mind, your little eyes and so on, you would have realized that your "knowledge" is indeed obsolete.

And no, i did not come by my vast amount of knowledge magically, it took years of demolition and reconstruction...years of questioning.

Have fun with the "me" hiding the other "me".
I won't even ask how many of those you think you have...

[Sarge47]

Sarge, "you" (by you i mean whomever has the power to do it), just erased a post of mine that was not out of line, by this forum's laws. On the other hand, some members can be rude, insulting, and receive a different treatment. Sarge tells us that "nobody here really knows about one another" (old thread).

"Altering or hiding one's identity"...If by identity you mean my social security number, it is the same. If by identity you mean where i live, this location will tell you nothing about who i am. If by identity you mean my hobbies or my profession, those things are only part of who i am. In the flesh or here, who we really are is so vast and mysterious, that defining oneself by attributes often given to us is a great tragedy of the human experience.

If you only knew where i come from, you would be ashamed to bring class into this.

What else ?
Remy, I really don't care how you view all of this. I don't read your stuff because I'm no where near as impressed with your writing as you are. Yes, I deleted your post because f a complaint filed that you were being abusive to PGV. That complaint went out to the Mods as well as Chris. Deleting it is better than banning the party in question, as is locking down a post, for example. That's why Bragg wound up getting banned, his stuff just crossed the line, I lokced down the threads & deleted parts or all of his posts that violated the rules. He then came back attacking me, which was okay, but then using profanity on some of the others, which was not. He also told me to ban him, which I did.

Oh, BTW, I have recently meant & have become friends with a fellow magician who is also the head of the Law Enforcement department out at our university. He used to be the 2nd "Top Cop" in L.A. & still has his contacts out their. Finding out more sbout people MAY be easier than you think!

The difference between you & me is NOT class, but how we view things. I see them in their simplest form, you try to make everything way more complicated than they need to be. Picking on me as subtle as you do does not help your case. BTW, note that I have NOT deleted all of the really long posts. No ones complained about those yet, probably because they don't understand what your talking about. OH, and these are for you.!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[trax]

Can I get all you guys' opinions on this really big knife I just bought? :p

[crashdive123]

Got any pictures?

[Sarge47]

Can I get all you guys' opinions on this really big knife I just bought? :p

Remy's back on the "ignore" list! So let's see the knife Trax!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[trax]

tried the wide scan on the camera but couldn't get the whole thing in the frame, sorry..it's one bigazz knife. Got a handle full of nifty stuff too :D

actually, I've been going through this thread thinking "watching Remy ramble on for page upon page really isn't a new pattern" but I don't want to insult my friend (whoops, I didn't did I Rem?"

[RangerXanatos]

Does it have a cool compass on it! :D

[remy]

Abusive towards PGV ?
lolll

I would think that PGV is a big boy first of all, and second of all i am sure he can differentiate between abuse and humor. I humorously said he was disgustingly nice !!!! To most it is a complement...but i guess not around here. You see what i mean though when i talk about hypocrisy ?
You can be pretty rude and abusive to newbies...come on...admit it...don't make me dig up some posts.
But i tell PGV he is quiet the nice guy, and i get my posts deleted.
Anyway...no big deal.

And yes you are absolutely correct when you say we view things differently. I could argue that what you call simple i call complicated, and what i call complicated can be simple...but then it gets complicated.

Thank you for not deleting posts based on length, we all appreciate it.
And i am sure that people understand what i am talking about, you just can't project like that, i mean it is not because you don't get it that no one gets it yes ? That would be insulting !


Now come on...let's see that knife.

[remy]

Remy, I really don't care how you view all of this. I don't read your stuff because I'm no where near as impressed with your writing as you are. Yes, I deleted your post because f a complaint filed that you were being abusive to PGV. That complaint went out to the Mods as well as Chris. Deleting it is better than banning the party in question, as is locking down a post, for example. That's why Bragg wound up getting banned, his stuff just crossed the line, I lokced down the threads & deleted parts or all of his posts that violated the rules. He then came back attacking me, which was okay, but then using profanity on some of the others, which was not. He also told me to ban him, which I did.

Oh, BTW, I have recently meant & have become friends with a fellow magician who is also the head of the Law Enforcement department out at our university. He used to be the 2nd "Top Cop" in L.A. & still has his contacts out their. Finding out more sbout people MAY be easier than you think!

The difference between you & me is NOT class, but how we view things. I see them in their simplest form, you try to make everything way more complicated than they need to be. Picking on me as subtle as you do does not help your case. BTW, note that I have NOT deleted all of the really long posts. No ones complained about those yet, probably because they don't understand what your talking about. OH, and these are for you.!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

"Oh, BTW, I have recently meant & have become friends with a fellow magician who is also the head of the Law Enforcement department out at our university. He used to be the 2nd "Top Cop" in L.A. & still has his contacts out their. Finding out more sbout people MAY be easier than you think!"
Sarge.

Is that a threat ?
Sarge...don't go there buddy.
You don't want to know who i know.

[doug1980]

Am I late for the pi$$ing contest? I'm always the last to find these things out. : )

[Sarge47]

Am I late for the pi$$ing contest? I'm always the last to find these things out. : )
I give up! Remy wins! Now let's talk about stuff that's interesting!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[doug1980]

I give up! Remy wins! Now let's talk about stuff that's interesting!:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Can't teach old dogs new tricks, or something like that. :D

[Sourdough]

Is that a threat ?
Sarge...don't go there buddy.
You don't want to know who i know.


You bet your bragging A$$, I want to know "WHO" you know. Do you like know Shirley Temple.....? Do you like know Doris Day......? :):):):):)

[klkak]

Hey Sarge, My best friend from High School is a Detective in L.A. I wonder if your friend and my friend knew eachother?.....hmmm.

[Sarge47]

Hey Sarge, My best friend from High School is a Detective in L.A. I wonder if your friend and my friend knew each other?.....hmmm.
Sounds like Remy's nervous. :eek: Your friend might know him. He drives a "Silver Shadow" Rolls Royce, has performed at the "Magic Castle" in Hollywood, & knew Gene Rodenberry (of Star Trek fame) personally. Seems like Gene was a retired sergent of the L. A.P.D. & visited all the time. PM me if you want more details. Don't worry Remy, trust me, you're not that important. BTW, this thread has run it's course so I'm locking it down, it's mine, after all. Also, if someone decides to "beat feet" later & tear down their post, they can't do it on a locked thread.:D Say goodnight Gracie!:cool: