Gun Fights & Knife Fights and other solutions

[Sourdough]

Want to be a looser, a real first class looser.....? Get in a knife fight. My guess is if you have 40 years experience as a knife fighting instructor, you would not make it through three full out knife fights to the death. They say, "No one wins a knife fight"

Gunfights....??? If your real good, you might have a 70% chance in the first engagement. But more likely 40% to 50% in the first engagement. Second engagement if real, real good and lucky, your odds for the first and second have dropped to maybe 45% to 55%. The more engagements you have the greater the chance you will die. If you are the best of the best, the other guy might just get a lucky shot.

I just find it interesting that Knives and Firearms are what people spend the most money on, in terms of "so'called" survival gear. For the most part have no training or practice with-in the last six months. Yes, you are the exception, yes you, you don't need to post your skill set. My point is not you, but everyone else who their only subject in the survival area is firearms and knives for killing people. Or the fantasy of repelling an attack, more than once.

Ever notice people buy them self several firearms, but no one buys himself even one personal bodybag.........:rolleyes:

[Dave Johns]

Well said. but I haven't bought my own personal bodybag because I never plan on using it. :)

[Sourdough]

One never does........

[dbldrew]

Well I would guess that most people that spend $$ on guns and knifes for survival gear aren’t doing it anticipating a knife or gun fight. My guess is they would use them as survival tools, guns for hunting, knife for field dressing, shelter making, etc.

But on the other hand if something catastrophic happens and anarchy ensues what are the percentages of living a knife or gunfight if you don’t have a knife or gun? Probably significantly less, I guess if you end up in a gunfight you better bring a gun…

[wareagle69]

ok if two folks are trained to fight with a knife then they are both going to the hospital and possibly the morgue, pride my self on my knife skills as i can carry anytime anywhere can't say the same for a pistol
2nd study the statistics from the gunfighter era most times they missed standing right in front of each other look at the running gunfights nowadays most times an innocent bystander gets killled
my weapon of choice knife vs your gun hands down anyday of the week
funny part of that hopeak is that lastnigth while out snowshoeing in the dark in the bush i am alone and with no firearm not many that i know do either cuz they feel safer having someone else and a gun keeps the boogy man away, this is why i go out alone i get into my head and keep at bay teh unknown or go out into the unknown on purpose to feel that hair on the back of the neck sensation having a firearm or freind there takes away from that, and by the way i know you said this thread doesn't pertain to "you" i know what you meant but knives are a small part of muy gear hense my arguement here over and over whn folks are asked "what one thing would you take into the bush" like frank i would take a wool blankey i can fashion my own sharp cutting instrument myself but take away the guns and knives and see how many members we would still have here my gues would be close to 10

[Sourdough]

Well I would guess that most people that spend $$ on guns and knifes for survival gear aren’t doing it anticipating a knife or gun fight. My guess is they would use them as survival tools, guns for hunting, knife for field dressing, shelter making, etc.

But on the other hand if something catastrophic happens and anarchy ensues what are the percentages of living a knife or gunfight if you don’t have a knife or gun? Probably significantly less, I guess if you end up in a gunfight you better bring a gun…


Well, you missed the point......

[dbldrew]

Well, you missed the point......

I don’t think so I guess this is your point.

“I just find it interesting that Knives and Firearms are what people spend the most money on, in terms of "so'called" survival gear. For the most part have no training or practice with-in the last six months. My point is not you, but everyone else who their only subject in the survival area is firearms and knives for killing people. Or the fantasy of repelling an attack, more than once.”

I just think that most people that are buying such weapons, getting in a knife or gun fight is low on the list of why they are buying them. It also doesn’t change the fact that if you do end up in a gun fight, having a gun and being a little rusty with it is much better than not having a gun at all.

[Sam]

Well, you missed the point......

I think the best way to survive an 'engagement' it to avoid it if possible. In a SHTF scenario I see NOT getting into running firefights as a good plan.
-Sam

[wareagle69]

I don’t think so I guess this is your point.

. It also doesn’t change the fact that if you do end up in a gun fight, having a gun and being a little rusty with it is much better than not having a gun at all.
i dissagree
also i think that most folks who buy a revolver or pistol or semi automatic weapon do anticipate needing the weapon thats why they bought it. when i lived in arizona i carried because i knew i would have to use it
shotguns and rifles i put into a different catagory

[Sourdough]

I think the best way to survive an 'engagement' it to avoid it if possible. In a SHTF scenario I see NOT getting into running firefights as a good plan.
-Sam


That is my point.

I shoot almost every day. I will run away, beg, negotiate, wine, plead, hide, anything to avoid another gunfight.

I know nothing about knives, but I run good.

We have a saying in Alaska Aviation. There are old pilots and there are also bold pilots.......There are no "Old-Bold" pilots.....;)

[FVR]

LOL....Even the winner of a knife fight bleeds.

As far as guns, don't matter how many ya have, if'n ya don't know how to use them, you are SOL. Just look at that kid who just died while shooting a mini 9mm uzi fully auto. There is a reason why we were trained on auto weapons, they don't shoot like other guns......duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........but stupid Mr. Survivor Man who waits for Armagedon just has to have one.

I like knives, alot. Like to throw them, just rec'd a few today. Like to carry them, use them, don't however really want to fight with them. If I am in a situation that warrants a knife, you won't see it, and chances are it will be a hit and run.

Best survival in these situations, get out, run out of the situation.

[wareagle69]

would have liked to read what you posted frank but i was running the other direction when you posted maybe if i come full circle i''ll finish it

[dolfan87]

I don't want to get into a knife fight, or a gun fight. Having said that, I own a .40 Glock, M77 Ruger 30 06, Ruger 10-22, and a Sig .22 semi auto hand gun. Up next is a shotgun.

I also own three expensive knives. The reason I own the guns and knives is because if the SHTF for whatever reason, I know my .06 will bring down a deer, elk, bear...whatever, and I could feed my family.

The guns just happen to be some of the most expensive things one can buy.

My tent, and sleeping bag cost more than my .06. My water purifier cost more than my Sig.

But over all, the guns and knives are just pricey pieces.

I am not going to get into my beliefs right now, but I will say this; I want to be prepared to live off the grid for a long period of time if I NEED to. We can all sit here and type about what we THINK may or may not happen in the future, but I have always felt it is better to prepare for the worst case scenario, then not.

Guns and knives will be very useful tools in a worst case scenario survival situation.

[Ole WV Coot]

I make it a point not to run with a knife in my hand, that's dangerous and a gun slows me down. I only get a spoon to eat with anyway. I had the last gunfight won until I ran out of caps. Grabbed my rubber knife but she took it away and beat the dickens out of me, didn't work couldn't get a 4-F out of it either.

[muddyredneck]

i think we buy guns and knives because they make us feel safer more prepared than other survivial gear my -40 sleeping bag doesnt make me feel like i can take on the world alone like a sawed of pump does

[crashdive123]

.....but that -40 sleeping bag will keep you alive longer in cold weather than the sawed off pump.:D

[marberry]

dont waste the time and money for guns knives and combat knowledge. running away gives you a far higher survival rate in ANY situation and a quality treadmill can be bought for $500 new on sale. and concerning gunfights , this is not the wild west , you cannot carry a gun around anymore. and most situations in which you would get shot are attacks of opportunity. and you dont have the element of surprise unless you are murdering someone in cold blood. a quality bullet resistant vest (III-A safariland, same defence as SWAT but concealable) only costs $450 with S&H. and there you go , strong legs and a vest will save your life alot better then any amount of money worth of guns, knives, or training.

[tsitenha]

If you train realisticly with a knife or a firearm, you will be more competent, and add to your chances (statisticly if you begin with 70% then the next time you are exposed you still have 70% chance, no diminishing return, only your exposure rate will change), but realisticly that you will actually use either is marginal. You hear of those cases as they out of the ordinary, that being said better to have one and know what to do with it then need one and not even have access to it.
Like survival training its all in your own exposure (realistic or other wise) to the situation/elements.

[wareagle69]

dont waste the time and money for guns knives and combat knowledge. running away gives you a far higher survival rate in ANY situation and a quality treadmill can be bought for $500 new on sale. and concerning gunfights , this is not the wild west , you cannot carry a gun around anymore. and most situations in which you would get shot are attacks of opportunity. and you dont have the element of surprise unless you are murdering someone in cold blood. a quality bullet resistant vest (III-A safariland, same defence as SWAT but concealable) only costs $450 with S&H. and there you go , strong legs and a vest will save your life alot better then any amount of money worth of guns, knives, or training.

well you can't and i can't just go around carrying but many still can when i lived in arizona i have my 45 strapped to my leg at all times unless in a bank bar or courthouse which is usually how thing s work in that order

[Ole WV Coot]

I sat in the car in a shopping center yesterday and cleaned my 45, didn't bother anyone. I carry it because I am too fat to run and I have been trained and still practice point shooting every day if I get a chance and I know how to use a knife. I haven't used either since the '60s on anyone but it's more habit than anything that I always carry both. Kinda like a pocket knife that I started carrying around 1950 back when a knife was a tool. Kinda like a check list when I leave home : spectacles, testicles, wallet, watch, gun, knife then I am set, some I need and some I don't.

[dolfan87]

well you can't and i can't just go around carrying but many still can when i lived in arizona i have my 45 strapped to my leg at all times unless in a bank bar or courthouse which is usually how thing s work in that order

Yuppers, here in AZ you can walk around with an unconcealed gun strapped to your hip...no license required.

[dolfan87]

You know after re-reading hopeak's original post, I think I originally misunderstood his reason for this thread.

My apologies hopeak. ;)

[SARKY]

As far as guns and knives go.... they are tools just like my compass, sleeping bag, mag block, and poncho. I find the knife (that is a well made utility knife) is way more important than a firearm. With a good knife I can make all the other tools I will need (this includes a bow and arrows). I can even make snares and traps (that includes man traps) in order to acquire food and protect/defend my little piece of this world. I am very picky about my knives, I've seen a lot of fancy fighters but they won't be worth a damm for camp chores. So it is all about the design of the knife and the material/s it is made of. If I were to pick just one gun to grab, it would be my Ruger 10-22 (second choice would be my Mossy 500) lots of ammo and a cleaning kit. I can take most game I would need to survive with the diminiive .22lr and if the need arose I could still use it to defend myself. Besides the darn thing only cost me $50.00 used.

[backtobasics]

I like knives, alot. Like to throw them, just rec'd a few today. Like to carry them, use them, don't however really want to fight with them. If I am in a situation that warrants a knife, you won't see it, and chances are it will be a hit and run.

Best survival in these situations, get out, run out of the situation.

FVR I've been thinking about learning to throw knives. Is it hard to learn? And whats a good knife to start with? I've seen many knives but I'm sure many are junk. I just don't know what to look for in a throwing knife. Thanks for any suggestions.

[backtobasics]

dont waste the time and money for guns knives and combat knowledge. running away gives you a far higher survival rate in ANY situation and a quality treadmill can be bought for $500 new on sale. and concerning gunfights , this is not the wild west , you cannot carry a gun around anymore. and most situations in which you would get shot are attacks of opportunity. and you dont have the element of surprise unless you are murdering someone in cold blood. a quality bullet resistant vest (III-A safariland, same defence as SWAT but concealable) only costs $450 with S&H. and there you go , strong legs and a vest will save your life alot better then any amount of money worth of guns, knives, or training.

First i want to say that i agree with you avoiding a fight and running is a persons best bet.
Now as far as not being able to run around with a gun, in Lassen county (thats where i live) just about anyone can get a concealed wepons permit. Just as long as your mentaly stabil and are not a felon. I use to work for the sherrif dept. and filed many permits. I'm sure its this way in other parts of the U.S.A also.

[marberry]

thats called open carry and there are VERY few states that allow it without a licience , alaska and montana too name a few. wikipedia has a list. and in canada the ONLY civillians that can EVER carry guns (apart from people who rat out the mob and get special licenses) are professional trappers. and they can only carry there handguns on the trapping line. im in the process of applying for one but i dont think theyl give me it till i turn 18.

[Ole WV Coot]

thats called open carry and there are VERY few states that allow it without a licience , alaska and montana too name a few. wikipedia has a list. and in canada the ONLY civillians that can EVER carry guns (apart from people who rat out the mob and get special licenses) are professional trappers. and they can only carry there handguns on the trapping line. im in the process of applying for one but i dont think theyl give me it till i turn 18.

A little advice that I know you won't take but I am gonna waste my time anyway. Open carry is legal here. I have a CCW. I have carried 45yrs depending. I always carry a couple of knives, SOG & SAK guess which one I use. What I carry is legal because I have a clean record. If you aren't aware a convicted felon cannot have a firearm or knife. I have a friend that killed a man. Back then he wasn't on his property, just had a mad on for 3 drunks that bothered his son. The man he killed wasn't worth the lead and semi justifiable. He did a couple of years and somehow he got probation. This was around 20yrs ago and he won't get near a firearm and I was visiting him when his PO came with a couple of troopers and shook the house down, scared his wife & kids and measured the kitchen knives. Lost his job of course and nobody would hire him. If you want to live like that or worse do your thing. I maybe pulled a trigger used an EK a few times but I didn't enjoy it and if you think you will you're one sick puppy.:(

[marberry]

How has my post even said that i want to kill people? and im not planning on living in a hypocritical society like the west has anyway. i have NO criminal record and have NEVER committed a criminal offence , much less been caught doing so. i was put into juvi because my parents wanted to scare me into being like them, not because i did anything wrong. and im very offended you think i am some kind of serial killer in the making. and i do not live in the united states and never will live in the united states so your laws dont matter to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
for open carry laws by state

[Ole WV Coot]

How has my post even said that i want to kill people? and im not planning on living in a hypocritical society like the west has anyway. i have NO criminal record and have NEVER committed a criminal offence , much less been caught doing so. i was put into juvi because my parents wanted to scare me into being like them, not because i did anything wrong. and im very offended you think i am some kind of serial killer in the making. and i do not live in the united states and never will live in the united states so your laws dont matter to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry
for open carry laws by state

Enough said, juv records are sealed but there is still a record. Have a great life in Canada. :) I hope you get your life in order. Just an example of how things can easily get out of hand.

[SARKY]

First i want to say that i agree with you avoiding a fight and running is a persons best bet.
Now as far as not being able to run around with a gun, in Lassen county (thats where i live) just about anyone can get a concealed wepons permit. Just as long as your mentaly stabil and are not a felon. I use to work for the sherrif dept. and filed many permits. I'm sure its this way in other parts of the U.S.A also.

I am up in the bay area (SanFrancisco) and if you want a permit to carry you had better be someone...... you knon, like Don Peratta or Sean Penn. If you aren't too bad.

[sgtdraino]

It also doesn’t change the fact that if you do end up in a gun fight, having a gun and being a little rusty with it is much better than not having a gun at all.

Bingo. There is a reason why guns are called "equalizers." More than any other device created, a gun can make an individual capable of defending himself or herself regardless of gender, physique, etc. Without a gun, you are at the mercy of your attackers. Unless you can get away, your survival is completely out of your hands. And if you can get away, you shouldn't be trying to have a gunfight anyway. Gunfights are what you have when you can't get away.

And agreed on knife fights. No winners in knife fights.


I like knives, alot. Like to throw them,

Me too, FVR! Not a very functional hobby, but a helluva lot of fun, eh? :)


Best survival in these situations, get out, run out of the situation.

Absolutely. Running should always be the first option.


this is not the wild west , you cannot carry a gun around anymore.

Huh? What? Ooooooh... you're Canadian. ;)


FVR I've been thinking about learning to throw knives. Is it hard to learn? And whats a good knife to start with? I've seen many knives but I'm sure many are junk. I just don't know what to look for in a throwing knife. Thanks for any suggestions.

Start with something tough but cheap that you can practice with, that's not too badly balanced. Something with a bit of heft to it. Start with half-turns, move to 1 rotation, 2 rotations, etc. The more you practice, the more you will get a feel for how far away you need to be to hit your target. You will find you are better with certain knives than others, everyone is different. Some guys who are really good are able to vary their rotation speed to hit targets from almost any distance, but I frankly don't know how they do that. :)

Hmmm... we need a knife throwing thread! :D

[RBB]

Want to be a looser, a real first class looser.....? Get in a knife fight. My guess is if you have 40 years experience as a knife fighting instructor, you would not make it through three full out knife fights to the death. They say, "No one wins a knife fight"

Gunfights....??? If your real good, you might have a 70% chance in the first engagement. But more likely 40% to 50% in the first engagement. Second engagement if real, real good and lucky, your odds for the first and second have dropped to maybe 45% to 55%. The more engagements you have the greater the chance you will die. If you are the best of the best, the other guy might just get a lucky shot.

I just find it interesting that Knives and Firearms are what people spend the most money on, in terms of "so'called" survival gear. For the most part have no training or practice with-in the last six months. Yes, you are the exception, yes you, you don't need to post your skill set. My point is not you, but everyone else who their only subject in the survival area is firearms and knives for killing people. Or the fantasy of repelling an attack, more than once.

Ever notice people buy them self several firearms, but no one buys himself even one personal bodybag.........:rolleyes:

I'm not sure of the exact quote, but it is something like: "The average gunfight (involving law enforcement) is fought at a distance of six feet and lasts three seconds."

Fortunately, those few I've been involved in were at longer ranges against poor (and usually intoxicated) marksmen.

As to knives: Our protocol states if a knife comes out - and the perp is less than 21 feet away from you - with no barrier between you and him - you shoot.

I've taken a number of eskrima courses on edged weapon defense, which consisted mainly of getting to decide where you get cut (if you're quick enough!).

As said - there are no winners in a knife fight.

[wareagle69]

but i think you will have noticed not many people really know how to use a knife. you can tell as you have been trained to observe and i am sure would not hesitate to shoot when coming upon one that looks compentent with a knife

[wareagle69]

and i beg to differ the guy still breathing at the end of the fight is the winner, i can guarantee you if any one brings a fight to me with a weapon be it knife or guy one of us will be dead at the end of the day and even if it requires 6 hours of surgery to repair my torn up body at the end of it i am still going home to my loved one so i can still hear bruce buffer say winner by split decision wareagle

[crashdive123]

Wouldn't that be "slit" decision?:D

[Ole WV Coot]

I would have to cut a deal with the ref and win on a split decision, or better yet just cut and run.

[A190]

INtresting post and points all.................
That being said, I have survived three separate stand up pistol fights...........
eye ball to eye ball and the pucker factor is huge after the fact...........

Anybody recognize this phrase without googling it.........."There are no second place winners"

Oh and pull a knife on me and I will just shoot. I have been in a knife fight, in high school, and it sucks.............

[RBB]

INtresting post and points all.................
That being said, I have survived three separate stand up pistol fights...........
eye ball to eye ball and the pucker factor is huge after the fact...........

Anybody recognize this phrase without googling it.........."There are no second place winners"

...........

Mr Jordan, I believe (heavy on the MR).

[trax]

thanks for the input guys, me and Obi-Wan will stick with the Force....:D

[A190]

Mr Jordan, I believe (heavy on the MR).
Sir my hat to you in respect for knowing my hero.
Even have his book, autographed.
That man could shoot. Probably the last of the old time shootist.........:D

[Badawg]

I have been in a knife fight... I was collecting rent and this crack head was waiting for me at the bottom of the stairs. he didn't hear me coming down though so I kinda surprised him. He started to pull the knife from the sheath so I put all my considerable weight into a left uppercut and broke his mouth, and knocked him completely off the landing and onto the concrete. Broke my hand and had one of his teeth stuck in my hand. That was 20 odd years ago and I still have a nice scar on my hand. He was knocked senseless and I took his knife and still have it. If he had gotten it out I would have been dead. That is as close as I ever want to get... I take Krav Maga now. I hope to never need it.

[RBB]

Sir my hat to you in respect for knowing my hero.
Even have his book, autographed.
That man could shoot. Probably the last of the old time shootist.........:D

(Laughs)

I have an autographed copy as well. Don't know who got it autographed - it was at the SO and was going in the trash when I rescued it.

[RBB]

I have been in a knife fight... I was collecting rent and this crack head was waiting for me at the bottom of the stairs. he didn't hear me coming down though so I kinda surprised him. He started to pull the knife from the sheath so I put all my considerable weight into a left uppercut and broke his mouth, and knocked him completely off the landing and onto the concrete. Broke my hand and had one of his teeth stuck in my hand. That was 20 odd years ago and I still have a nice scar on my hand. He was knocked senseless and I took his knife and still have it. If he had gotten it out I would have been dead. That is as close as I ever want to get... I take Krav Maga now. I hope to never need it.

Fists are a bad thing to hit people with - especially dopers - especially if you are going to hit them in the face. Good way to end up with HIV or hepatitus.

These days I use an open hand, or elbows if I'm close enough, though I forgot the day before yesterday. Served a search warrant and a meth-head sucker punched me in the chest. Bad move on his part as it was the last punch he landed. He was up against a concrete wall and couldn't back up when I layed into him. He's been lying in jail ever since - moaning about his ribs.

[Ole WV Coot]

I haven't hit anyone with my fist since I was 13 or so. Learn open hand, cane, striking points, joint locks and KISS always. I had an instructor that taught me a gentle poke to the eye beats a hard punch to the chin. You have so many weapons around you learn to open your eyes. Personally I liked a pool cue or a nice heavy ashtray in a bar. If you're on the wrong side of 60 you can get away with almost anything and tell everyone you "accidentally" hit the right spot and breathe hard and hold your back or chest and moan a lot. I think most folks on here could defend themselves if I can. Age & nasty beats youth & strength, always.

[Kankujoe]

No one is unscathed in either a gun fight or knife fight... even if you do win... you lose... because you are never the same afterwards... better to be proficient (& have respect for the use & effects of all available tools) than to be unprepared...

Firearms & knives (just like first aid kits & compasses) are tools... the more tools in your tool box the better prepared you can be... the better trained you are to use your tools, the better prepared you are for the unexpected...

[Badawg]

[QUOTE=RBB;86672]Fists are a bad thing to hit people with - especially dopers - especially if you are going to hit them in the face. Good way to end up with HIV or hepatitis.

True dat! My hand is much better now, of course. The would be mugger was on parole so he was violated back to custody. I got 2 days in the hospital because of the ligament sheath damage. My last fight was all open palm's, knees and elbows. A lot easier on my body...

I was quite young back then and was still feeling my way around... If I can run, I will. If I can't, I aim to kill.

[primeelite]

When going far out into the wild I usually carry a pistol that I have a concealed permit for just for the intimidation factor more than anything as I have been approached by some pretty strange characters when I was pretty far out there with a few friends. But like you said if I have the choice I will get out of the situation but I just want the ability to be able to shoot back if I get caught in a situation where there is no choice or at least fire some at the person to be able to get away.

[Kankujoe]

When going far out into the wild I usually carry a pistol that I have a concealed permit for just for the intimidation factor more than anything as I have been approached by some pretty strange characters when I was pretty far out there with a few friends. But like you said if I have the choice I will get out of the situation but I just want the ability to be able to shoot back if I get caught in a situation where there is no choice or at least fire some at the person to be able to get away.

Carrying a pistol "just for the intimidation factor" is called "brandishing" which is illegal in most states... carrying concealed means, the weapon is concealed and therefore should not be intimidating at all since no one knows you have a weapon. If carrying concealed & you unconceal it you had better be doing so only if you are in fear for your life or you are breaking the law, brandishing is a form of assault and you can be prosecuted for that.

[FVR]

When I go into the woods, I always carry a sidearm out in the open. I'm not brandishing, I'm hunting, or just walking with a gun during hunting season.LOL...I'm not going to kill anything anyways. Just feels right. Also have my bowie, that feels better than anything.

[Kankujoe]

When I go into the woods, I always carry a sidearm out in the open. I'm not brandishing, I'm hunting, or just walking with a gun during hunting season.LOL...I'm not going to kill anything anyways. Just feels right. Also have my bowie, that feels better than anything.

Open carry is a whole different animal... where legal it is the preferred method of carry... especially in the back country...

but still, if carrying just for intimitation.... hmmm, not sure I want to pursue that argument any further...

[Pict]

In Brazil I carry a folder (Endura). I don't carry a knife because I want to be in a knife fight. I want the person who is trying to inflict death or grave bodily injury on me to be in a knife fight.

The idea of "intimidation" is a poor choice of words IMO because forcing the perp to re-evaluate you as a victim is a very successful strategy in my experience. I have done this several times: two guys tried to jump me while solo backpacking and stopped when they spotted my holstered revolver, two guys pulled switchblades on my brother and I while we were metal detecting and backed off in the face of two Swedish bayonets, two guys tried to strong-arm rob me and a friend in a coconut grove in Fortaleza Brazil and backed down because I had a machete. I have also used my car as a weapon twice and pepper spray once.

Surviving in a violent place is 90% situational awareness and the willingness to ACT upon it EARLY. I can't count the number of times I have been saved by this from a hinky situation that turned out to be nothing but odd circumstances because I forced someone to go to plan "B", which is usually "find an easier mark".

Gun and knife fights are some of the most hostile environments on the planet and they should be avoided at all costs. Most criminals have calculated those costs as well and don't want to pay that price either. That's why I will always maintain the means to force the issue into their fuzzy thinking. Once someone decides to go for it the only option you have is to win. If they want to go the route of wounds and death, yeah, we can do that too. Committing yourself to inflict harm on an innocent human being should be the most dangerous decision a person could make. Mac

[primeelite]

Well sorry let me clarify I do have a concealed but when I am out in the backwoods I do carry it out in the open. I think it helps avoid any conflict just because of the intimidation factor. Plus I feel it is a safer way to carry to so you don't get it snagged in clothing or have it go off.

[Cleankill47]

Personally, I carry a gun and a few knives for different reasons. The knives I carry because I rarely go a few hours without needing one for something, so I try to always have at least one on me. The gun I carry because I know how to use it, and should someone try to hurt me, my family, or an innocent around me, it can mean the difference between going home, the hospital or the morgue.

I can fight with knives, but it wouldn't make sense to me, especially with my fiancee' carrying our first child, to get into a knife fight when I have a permit to carry. If someone comes up to me with a knife, he'll get to stare down the barrel of my Glock 21 until the police get there, unless of course he does something stupid.

Of course, it's the last resort, but if you get down to that point, and you don't have the necessary equipment, then you have very little chance of coming out on top. You should do everything you can to prepare for anything you can, especially something as important as defending yourself and your family from simple thugs.

[klkak]

The only time I carry a gun now is while hunting or going to church. Yes I said church. I am part of the church security team. I do have a knife on me all the time. It is a folding Benchmade with a 2 1/2 in. blade.

I don't carry the knife as some form of protection. I only carry the gun at church because I was asked. The others and I received the states mandatory training for armed security and we are licensed.

"If you must get in a gun fight. Make sure you are behind the guy that wants to kill you. That way when the shooting starts you have a nice big target to shoot at."

[trax]

This is a small town, people get to know each other. Ever since I tore that guy's heart out and ate it raw, no one bothers me. I don't have to carry a gun, I carry a pocket knife in case I need to cut something.

[klkak]

Want to be a looser, a real first class looser.....? Get in a knife fight. My guess is if you have 40 years experience as a knife fighting instructor, you would not make it through three full out knife fights to the death. They say, "No one wins a knife fight"

Gunfights....??? If your real good, you might have a 70% chance in the first engagement. But more likely 40% to 50% in the first engagement. Second engagement if real, real good and lucky, your odds for the first and second have dropped to maybe 45% to 55%. The more engagements you have the greater the chance you will die. If you are the best of the best, the other guy might just get a lucky shot.

I just find it interesting that Knives and Firearms are what people spend the most money on, in terms of "so'called" survival gear. For the most part have no training or practice with-in the last six months. Yes, you are the exception, yes you, you don't need to post your skill set. My point is not you, but everyone else who their only subject in the survival area is firearms and knives for killing people. Or the fantasy of repelling an attack, more than once.

Ever notice people buy them self several firearms, but no one buys himself even one personal bodybag.........:rolleyes:

(While standing in front of the mirror trying to look tough)

Are you talking to me?

Are you talking to me?

Are you Talking to Me?

[trax]

I don't see no one else here..you must be talking to me...

[RBB]

For years I've been trying to get my wife to learn to shoot. It is a lost cause. My kids all shoot, and my daughter is the best pistol shot of the bunch, but the Mrs just won't learn and I worry when she's home alone.

At work we've been using these tasers for a few years. Great tool! Now the company has come out with a civilian model for about half price. Instead of a five second tase, followed by three second tases, it gives one 90 second tase, allowing the user time to get away. It looks like a lady's electric razor and comes in designer colors. I'm thinking of getting her one.

[crashdive123]

Is that the Taser C2?

[chiangmaimav]

I believe hopeak is 100 per cent right about this. People who go on jungle treks here are more interested in knives than any other equipment. It is illegal for foreigners in Thailand to carry firearms, but they generally wish they could. Working in the prison in NY state, I was a peace officer and owned several firearms, which I loved to shoot but generally only carried when I went to NY city, as this is where most of the cons came from and you never knew when you would run into one with a beef. As far as knives go, my mother's family are iroquois and I was brought up with knives all my life but I just think of them more as a tool than a weapon. In prison I was in knife fights, but I never had the knife. So I got cut but I survived. I was an unarmed defensive tactics instructor and a baton instructor, and became proficient with a stick and have used them many times but I never have been in a gunfight, although I have been shot at three times while I was unarmed. In Thailand everyone in the jungle has a knife, but they are illegal to use as a weapon. Consequently, there are numerous very efficient Thai stickfighting systems, and I used to have a school in central Thailand where I taught farmers to use bamboo staffs to protect their crops as bandits were robbing the rice crops at night. As far as equipment goes, I think a good pair of boots is worth more than a gun, but I would not like to be in jungle without a machete or a parang.

[crashdive123]

Sarge - Move to General Survival

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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инфо (http://scarcecommodity.ru)инфо (http://scrapermat.ru)инфо (http://screwingunit.ru)инфо (http://seawaterpump.ru)инфо (http://secondaryblock.ru)инфо (http://secularclergy.ru)инфо (http://seismicefficiency.ru)инфо (http://selectivediffuser.ru)инфо (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)инфо (http://semifinishmachining.ru)инфо (http://spicetrade.ru)инфо (http://spysale.ru)инфо (http://stungun.ru)инфо (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)инфо (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
инфо (http://tamecurve.ru)инфо (http://tapecorrection.ru)инфо (http://tappingchuck.ru)инфо (http://taskreasoning.ru)инфо (http://technicalgrade.ru)инфо (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)инфо (http://telescopicdamper.ru)инфо (http://temperateclimate.ru)инфо (http://temperedmeasure.ru)инфо (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)инфо (http://ultramaficrock.ru)инфо (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

Econ (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/227)369.9 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/483)Bett (http://eyesvision.ru/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1926-04)Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1920-01)Blaw (http://factoringfee.ru)Vilh (http://filmzones.ru)Thre (http://gadwall.ru)Stan (http://gaffertape.ru)Гинд (http://gageboard.ru)Шевч (http://gagrule.ru)Nina (http://gallduct.ru)Oper (http://galvanometric.ru)Zyli (http://gangforeman.ru)Micr (http://gangwayplatform.ru)Comp (http://garbagechute.ru)
Inte (http://gardeningleave.ru)Мак� (http://gascautery.ru)Zyli (http://gashbucket.ru)Chri (http://gasreturn.ru)�лов (http://gatedsweep.ru)Dalv (http://gaugemodel.ru)Medi (http://gaussianfilter.ru)Blum (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)Wind (http://geartreating.ru)Csar (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)Ando (http://generalprovisions.ru)What (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)Кита (http://geriatricnurse.ru)Dolb (http://getintoaflap.ru)�ерт (http://getthebounce.ru)
Cafe (http://habeascorpus.ru)Корж (http://habituate.ru)Mika (http://hackedbolt.ru)Brad (http://hackworker.ru)Gord (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)Мака (http://haemagglutinin.ru)�ерт (http://hailsquall.ru)Doct (http://hairysphere.ru)обуч (http://halforderfringe.ru)Fran (http://halfsiblings.ru)Kres (http://hallofresidence.ru)Noki (http://haltstate.ru)Tefa (http://handcoding.ru)Sony (http://handportedhead.ru)Pete (http://handradar.ru)
Patr (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)Льво (http://hangonpart.ru)Jean (http://haphazardwinding.ru)Kate (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)XVII (http://hardasiron.ru)Тимч (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)1278 (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)Icon (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)губе (http://hatchholddown.ru)Sure (http://haveafinetime.ru)кино (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)Poke (http://headregulator.ru)Eleg (http://heartofgold.ru)Morn (http://heatageingresistance.ru)Mark (http://heatinggas.ru)
Jame (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)Фили (http://jacketedwall.ru)Chri (http://japanesecedar.ru)Миха (http://jibtypecrane.ru)Гиб� (http://jobabandonment.ru)Стеф (http://jobstress.ru)Звер (http://jogformation.ru)Nigh (http://jointcapsule.ru)цент (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)Etni (http://journallubricator.ru)Aman (http://juicecatcher.ru)XVII (http://junctionofchannels.ru)Delu (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)Wind (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)коро (http://kaposidisease.ru)
Медв (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)Wind (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)Mari (http://kentishglory.ru)Half (http://kerbweight.ru)Браг (http://kerrrotation.ru)Rune (http://keymanassurance.ru)Lynn (http://keyserum.ru)Hear (http://kickplate.ru)мен� (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)Skin (http://kilowattsecond.ru)Krin (http://kingweakfish.ru)импе (http://kinozones.ru/film/5123)Иллю (http://kleinbottle.ru)9059 (http://kneejoint.ru)Bubc (http://knifesethouse.ru)
Patr (http://knockonatom.ru)Anot (http://knowledgestate.ru)Кита (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)9055 (http://labeledgraph.ru)Swee (http://laborracket.ru)diam (http://labourearnings.ru)RHZN (http://labourleasing.ru)Bern (http://laburnumtree.ru)Smar (http://lacingcourse.ru)мате (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)Фоми (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)Гогу (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)Robi (http://ladletreatediron.ru)Alex (http://laggingload.ru)Wolf (http://laissezaller.ru)
Carl (http://lambdatransition.ru)Brad (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)Pete (http://lammasshoot.ru)жизн (http://lamphouse.ru)Ð*азм (http://lancecorporal.ru)Garm (http://lancingdie.ru)Simp (http://landingdoor.ru)Disn (http://landmarksensor.ru)Resp (http://landreform.ru)Ryut (http://landuseratio.ru)FORD (http://languagelaboratory.ru)оÑ�но (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1827134)обыч (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1827050)Senn (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1331)Прои (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030718)

[yellowcab]

Ardo (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030761)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452932)Louy (http://layabout.ru/shop/601831)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1418634)�еры (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/465347)�ови (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/902565)Кита (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1152234)R181 (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447264)Итал (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/922914)1001 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/862167)Kurt (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/576384)�рти (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/789244)9073 (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1151868)Phar (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/614174)обра (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1176290)
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happ (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032773)хлоп (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/458293)Euka (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571736)Even (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/1154364)Luis (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1256939)Boul (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/317568)Rada (http://onesticket.ru/shop/584459)Jean (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585610)ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689877)Тата (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690859)Буха (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956499)подв (http://papercoating.ru/shop/683126)гипн (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1670812)Иллю (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1710415)Бузи (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1178294)
Бров (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1420663)Коню (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1538426)Ñ�тор (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545818)Молл (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1708945)Mark (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/739727)Мака (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/940375)Лени (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1216452)Соло (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1458133)Поку (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1504444)унив (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/518246)ЯÐ*ай (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/898120)прем (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/975553)Прав (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1651247)БорÑ� (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1408846)прор (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1559854)
Ever (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/636174)зако (http://rearchain.ru/shop/880247)Царе (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/970386)Бара (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1655041)Моро (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1662355)авто (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1668412)Alan (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1690139)Dell (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1716009)Триф (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1774145)Pian (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1785657)Ванц (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822982)Копе (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1848715)Шере (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856346)51-6 (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1884394)авто (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918801)
�ико (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1932099)авто (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950460)прог (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1964087)Vive (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973634)Сары (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1463832)Джеж (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1498633)Ситн (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1608606)Кучм (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1658851)Дени (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1680580)изда (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1714269)Senn (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1331)Senn (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1331)Senn (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1331)МГор (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/488248)ин�т (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1765129)
земл (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773685)руÑ�а (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776832)Ð*аут (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/1784953)Дерз (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/506222)Суво (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1856115)банд (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901940)Пушк (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1969251)publ (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/891469)лите (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/940192)ЛипÑ� (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/986538)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Joha (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/988860)Adri (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488644)