My gun of choice, sorta...

[Nomad]

My gun of choice would still be a 22 magnum like I stated in another post, but. Survival is as survival does, whatever that means. Anyway, I placed a toy I had on the net to trade for a gun and ended up with a 12 guage pump.
I think I could get by with less but I do like my shotgun. I found that I like #6 shot the best, it does the job for what I hunt. The shells cost me 30 to 50 cents each on average depending on what brand. Needless to say, on a survival budget theres no room for target practice. Theres alot of woodchucks around my neck of the woods, and their not bad eating either so thats one of my menu selections. I'm training my dog to get'em so I can save my shells. he's still young so I don't let him scrap with one yet, but he's more than eager. anybody here tried a chuck ???

[Sourdough]

My gun of choice would still be a 22 magnum like I stated in another post, but. Survival is as survival does, whatever that means. Anyway, I placed a toy I had on the net to trade for a gun and ended up with a 12 guage pump.
I think I could get by with less but I do like my shotgun. I found that I like #6 shot the best, it does the job for what I hunt. The shells cost me 30 to 50 cents each on average depending on what brand. Needless to say, on a survival budget theres no room for target practice. Theres alot of woodchucks around my neck of the woods, and their not bad eating either so thats one of my menu selections. I'm training my dog to get'em so I can save my shells. he's still young so I don't let him scrap with one yet, but he's more than eager. anybody here tried a chuck ???

Yep, We ate them. and sold them to the few people poorer than us. Sold pigeons also. I'll ditto the .22 Magnum idea.

[davef]

Nomad,

I'm just in the process of getting my first rifle.
Basically, I'm going to be using it for predator protection when I go fishing.
The fishing takes place in bear country, and although I'm not much of a hunter,
I have this aversion to being eaten by a hungry bear, if you know what I
mean...:)

Looks like I might be going with a 12 gauge Remington 870.
Am looking at a Marlin 1895 Guide rifle (45-70) as well.
Hard decision to make!

Cheers

[klkak]

Nomad,

I'm just in the process of getting my first rifle.
Basically, I'm going to be using it for predator protection when I go fishing.
The fishing takes place in bear country, and although I'm not much of a hunter,
I have this aversion to being eaten by a hungry bear, if you know what I
mean...:)

Looks like I might be going with a 12 gauge Remington 870.
Am looking at a Marlin 1895 Guide rifle (45-70) as well.
Hard decision to make!

Cheers

Go with the 12 guage. It is much more versatile. A 3 inch Brenneke Black magic slug is much more effective on bear then anything from a 45-70.

[tsitenha]

Klkak is right, 12 with a sturdy slug back by another, ghost sights and short bush barrel is the way to go, and a prayer :)

[Sourdough]

Woodchuck's .......Woodchucks. never had to stop a charging woodchuck. If you took his credit card away, he could not charge......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[klkak]

Hopeak, I just picked up a Winchester mod-94 AE SRC in .44 magnum. I got it at Great Northern Guns. Like new, never fired, no box. Yog said he almost regrets selling it to me cause he knows I'll use it and in a year it'll look like an antique.

[Sourdough]

Hopeak, I just picked up a Winchester mod-94 AE SRC in .44 magnum. I got it at Great Northern Guns. Like new, never fired, no box. Yog said he almost regrets selling it to me cause he knows I'll use it and in a year it'll look like an antique.

You know I worked for years at Great Northern Guns. And with Yog. Great walk'about gun, easy to carry in one hand. More than $595.- or less????

[klkak]

I really like Yog. It was a bit more then $595. I paid what they were asking cause I knew it wouldn't be there long enough for the price to go down.

[Sourdough]

Good move no matter what you paid. There won't be anymore made in New Haven, Conn.

Enjoy the gunshow tomorrow, My partner will be the guy in the corner with the cowboy (western) Hat.

[Rick]

Hey, was that the gun Chuck Connors used in the Rifleman? It's the one with the large lever, right?

[Sourdough]

Only a very old, old, old person would remember the Rifleman. Now what was his son's name. And "Son" does not count......however that is what he called him, Son.

[crashdive123]

Just watched an episode (it's on that TV thingy Hope). Just reminds me of a simpiler time. Mark's the son, Micha the law.

[Sourdough]

Very good, I wonder what became of the boy....?

[crashdive123]

Johnny Crawford. Since you asked.....http://www.celebhost.net/johnnycrawford/

[Sourdough]

WOW, he even looks the same...

[crashdive123]

I was wondering how old the pic was. I'll see what I can find.

[crashdive123]

This one is from 2008. A bit older, but looks the same.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM5MDczNjMyMl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTkyNTQ4._V1._ SX297_SY399_.jpg

[Ole WV Coot]

OLD????? I remember when Connors washed out of pro baseball. Ain't been that long ago has it?

[crashdive123]

He played basketball for the Boston Celtics in 1946, baseball for the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1949, was drafted to play football by the Chicago Bears but never played. I think he made the right career choice. Nobody beating on you all day and you get to use a rifle.....

[Stony]

the Rifleman used a M 92 with modified lever and set screw to trigger when action is closing.
the pree 1920 winchesters where much better than anything made until close-down.
I have a take-down version of the M 94 (made in 1917). this old gun is MUCH better than the junk the sold in the last 30 years.
I am glad they had to shut down.

[klkak]

the Rifleman used a M 92 with modified lever and set screw to trigger when action is closing.
the pree 1920 winchesters where much better than anything made until close-down.
I have a take-down version of the M 94 (made in 1917). this old gun is MUCH better than the junk the sold in the last 30 years.
I am glad they had to shut down.

Stony, that is a very bad attitude to have. No one should be happy when a company like Winchester shuts down. A lot of good people lost their jobs and the rest of us lost an American icon.

I own several Winchester lever actions from as far back a 1902 up to 1994. None are any better then the others. They are all rugged and reliable. They all do exactly what they were designed to do.

When I hear someone speak as you just did it leads me to believe you have little or no subject matter expertise and are trying to make up for your lack of experience with bravado, bad manners and loud talk.

I'm willing to bet a good deal of the folks that read your post will consider you some kind of "NUMPTY":D

[nell67]

I wouldn't put too much stock in his posts klkak,here is a post he made a while back on guns,mmmm one would assume from his anti-gun posts before this that he wouldn't own one.


there should be less guns and not more!
already bad enough that every nut case can buy, own and carRy guns.
i am against cc in parks, fact i am against cc periode!
get a can of bear spray and a whistle, less harmful to the carrier and every one else!

[crashdive123]

Yeah - numpty is kind of polite when talking about Stony the drive by poster.

[klkak]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Beo]

Some call me a thug with a badge, and some say I am a Godsend, while still others call me a psychopath, a murderer and evil. Whatever I am… I am efficient.
I work at night in the cold darkness of 3rd shift, when the predators of the city come out, I work from the shadows where no one can see, but I am no less powerful for this. They all know me, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, gangbangers and car jackers, thieves and muggers, purse snatchers and the average citizen, even the higher ups of the city and county, and especially the press.
Alright most on here know I am a cop, a Deputy Sheriff to be exact, but in the end I'ma cop and if you didn't know that then you don't know me. So anyway I get a lot of questions like "This happened to me what do I do" or "this cop did this what can I do" and I give my advice from my 17+ years of experience.
But here's the thing I run into and it sometimes tears me up on what I should do. People always think they know what a cop is and what his job is, and separating the facts from fiction can be pretty confusing.
A Law Enforcement officer is a composite of what all men are a mingling of saint and sinner, devil and deity. Cold statistics turn out the lights on the good and brave deeds they do and shine beams of lights on instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news. What that really means is they are exceptional, unusual, and not commonplace. Buried under the murk and froth is the fact that less than half of one half of one percent of policemen commit misconduct, and that's a better average than among clergymen. A policeman made up of several different men at once, he of all men is at once the most needed and most unwanted, a strangely nameless man who is "Sir" to his face and "Pig" to his back. He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals, so that each will think he has won. But if he is neat, he's a flirt or womanizer. If he's sloppy, he's a grouch and dirt bag.
In an instant he must make decisions, which require months for a lawyer and judge, but if he hurries he's careless, if he's deliberate he's lazy. He must be first to an accident, infallible with his diagnosis; he must be able to start breathing and stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued. The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and shoot where it doesn't hurt or kill. He must be able to whip two men twice his size and half his age, without damage to his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him he's a coward, if he hits you he's a bully. A policeman must know everything and not tell; he must know where all sin is and not partake of it. The policeman must, from a single piece of evidence, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding, but if he catches the bad guy he got lucky, if he doesn't he's stupid. If he gets promoted he has political pull, if he doesn't he's a dunce or bad apple.
The police officer must chase bad leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights in row to tag one criminal, sift through countless files and write reports until his eyes ache to build a case against a felon who will cut a deal with a shameless shyster or an honorable who isn't. A policeman must be a minister, social worker, a diplomat, a tough guy, a mechanic, a computer wiz, and a gentleman all in one, and of course he will have to be a genius, because he will have to feed a family on a pitiful policeman's salary.
So I am glad you can get your ccw permit, for once let the bad guys fear who they are preying upon, let them know what its like to be frightened by having a gun shot at you or pointed in your face.
Beo,

[Beo]

Oh yeah, the 12 guage is the best of the two in my opinion.

[crashdive123]

Beo - nice to see you back around.

[Beo]

Thanks bro, nice to be here.
Sorry about the rant. ever since I lost my friend in the line of duty I been working OT, gets kind old. But I do have the most felony arrests in the county for the past two months :) (yeah for me I know) and it passes the time while working to actually make a slight difference. I got onto a joint task force here with the city called VORTEX, we hit all the corners and roust the dope boys, It's a plain clothes narcotics job and pretty cool, and once again I'm the old man of the group at 43... heee heee youngsters can't hang.
My hours are screwy so I usually just brouse, spend most of my time working out or working. But it is so good to sit here and read the posts.
Beo,

[Fletcher]

Oh yeah, the 12 guage is the best of the two in my opinion.
I agree 12 gauge is the best choice.

[Fletcher]

Thanks bro, nice to be here.
Sorry about the rant. ever since I lost my friend in the line of duty I been working OT, gets kind old. But I do have the most felony arrests in the county for the past two months :) (yeah for me I know) and it passes the time while working to actually make a slight difference. I got onto a joint task force here with the city called VORTEX, we hit all the corners and roust the dope boys, It's a plain clothes narcotics job and pretty cool, and once again I'm the old man of the group at 43... heee heee youngsters can't hang.
My hours are screwy so I usually just brouse, spend most of my time working out or working. But it is so good to sit here and read the posts.
Beo,
Good job and a job well done. Sorry to here of your friend i know how it feels.

[klkak]

Welcome back brother. You just laid out every reason I'm not on the job. for me it boiled down to "Stress". I realized that I nor my family could handle me being a cop. Twenty years of the military. Twenty years worth of south of the border deployments and my wife made it very clear to me she'd had enough.

For me life is so much better now. One day not to long ago at church my wife put her arm around my waist. She looked up at me and whispered in my ear "Where's your gun?" I told her I left it at the house. She asked me if I was ok. I looked her in the eyes and almost cried when I said "That life is behind us now".

Now I carry when I want to not because I'm worried someone from my past will recognize my face

This country needs allot of good cops. I believe you are one. Thank you for your service.

[crashdive123]

Yep, ditto what Kevin said.

[Ole WV Coot]

Yep, hang in. You may be amazed how many folks back you up all the way. They said it for me.

[Nomad]

Ok I guess i've missed alot of things going on since i moved to the woods. Did I just read Klkak's post that said WINCHESTER is out of business??? I just can't believe that. tell me it aint true...

[Sourdough]

Marlin Arms, New England Arms, H&R Arms, Bushmaster Firearms, are now owned by Remington Arms, which is owned by someone else. Winchester Firearms were made under pattens and trademarks owned by Olin Corp. in New Haven conn. that factory is largely closed, some custom work is still done there. Some models are being manufactured by FN factories in America. Winchester claims they will reopen a factory in the South East. It changes by the day and sometimes by the hour. I sold several Winchester M-70 new model controlled feed for up to $1,800.00 each after they closed production. Both Blued and Stainless steel.

[davef]

beo,
SIR on both sides of you Front and Back!!

nomad
why a .22 as a survival rifle? Forgive my ignorance here as I'm new to firearms.
I can see the .22 for the sake of carrying ammunition, because you can carry
way more bullets for the weight, but what other reasons would be involved in
that particular choice?

[crashdive123]

Dave F - on the .22 - unless you have a way to store and preserve big game, it's small game that you will be going after in a "survival situation". Also, as you say - ammo is lightweight so you can carry quite a bit very easily.

[FVR]

DaveF,

I fall into the cat. of a 22 magnum also. Why? because look where I live, Georgia. Biggest thing in the woods is going to be a black bear or man. Black bears really don't want anything to do with humans, most the time. A 22 mag. fits the bill of: lightweight, many rounds, will kill a deer, turkey, hog, small game, and a human. I don't worry much about da bears.

Now, if I venture out west, whole different set up. My choice would be the Mossberg 500, no plug or rather extended tube with a possibles bag full of buckshot, slugs, and 6 shot. Buckshot and slugs would be the traveling load.

[Arsey]

Some call me a thug with a badge, and some say I am a Godsend, while still others call me a psychopath, a murderer and evil. Whatever I am… I am efficient.
I work at night in the cold darkness of 3rd shift, when the predators of the city come out, I work from the shadows where no one can see, but I am no less powerful for this. They all know me, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, gangbangers and car jackers, thieves and muggers, purse snatchers and the average citizen, even the higher ups of the city and county, and especially the press.
Alright most on here know I am a cop, a Deputy Sheriff to be exact, but in the end I'ma cop and if you didn't know that then you don't know me. So anyway I get a lot of questions like "This happened to me what do I do" or "this cop did this what can I do" and I give my advice from my 17+ years of experience.
But here's the thing I run into and it sometimes tears me up on what I should do. People always think they know what a cop is and what his job is, and separating the facts from fiction can be pretty confusing.
A Law Enforcement officer is a composite of what all men are a mingling of saint and sinner, devil and deity. Cold statistics turn out the lights on the good and brave deeds they do and shine beams of lights on instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news. What that really means is they are exceptional, unusual, and not commonplace. Buried under the murk and froth is the fact that less than half of one half of one percent of policemen commit misconduct, and that's a better average than among clergymen. A policeman made up of several different men at once, he of all men is at once the most needed and most unwanted, a strangely nameless man who is "Sir" to his face and "Pig" to his back. He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals, so that each will think he has won. But if he is neat, he's a flirt or womanizer. If he's sloppy, he's a grouch and dirt bag.
In an instant he must make decisions, which require months for a lawyer and judge, but if he hurries he's careless, if he's deliberate he's lazy. He must be first to an accident, infallible with his diagnosis; he must be able to start breathing and stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued. The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and shoot where it doesn't hurt or kill. He must be able to whip two men twice his size and half his age, without damage to his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him he's a coward, if he hits you he's a bully. A policeman must know everything and not tell; he must know where all sin is and not partake of it. The policeman must, from a single piece of evidence, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding, but if he catches the bad guy he got lucky, if he doesn't he's stupid. If he gets promoted he has political pull, if he doesn't he's a dunce or bad apple.
The police officer must chase bad leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights in row to tag one criminal, sift through countless files and write reports until his eyes ache to build a case against a felon who will cut a deal with a shameless shyster or an honorable who isn't. A policeman must be a minister, social worker, a diplomat, a tough guy, a mechanic, a computer wiz, and a gentleman all in one, and of course he will have to be a genius, because he will have to feed a family on a pitiful policeman's salary.
So I am glad you can get your ccw permit, for once let the bad guys fear who they are preying upon, let them know what its like to be frightened by having a gun shot at you or pointed in your face.
Beo,

Hey Beowulf,

You have put that better than I've ever heard it put before.
I'm not anything to do with law enforcement and so I am glad there are people like you who actually want to make a difference.
I'm too am sorry to hear you lost your partner.

[Arsey]

On the subject at hand has anyone considered a .410.
I believe you guys can get semi auto versions. (Check out the Safirarms webpage).
They'd be lightweight and effective with a variety of loads to suit from single ball shot to #9 ratshot/snakeshot.

[Arsey]

Some call me a thug with a badge, and some say I am a Godsend, while still others call me a psychopath, a murderer and evil. Whatever I am… I am efficient.
I work at night in the cold darkness of 3rd shift, when the predators of the city come out, I work from the shadows where no one can see, but I am no less powerful for this. They all know me, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, gangbangers and car jackers, thieves and muggers, purse snatchers and the average citizen, even the higher ups of the city and county, and especially the press.
Alright most on here know I am a cop, a Deputy Sheriff to be exact, but in the end I'ma cop and if you didn't know that then you don't know me. So anyway I get a lot of questions like "This happened to me what do I do" or "this cop did this what can I do" and I give my advice from my 17+ years of experience.
But here's the thing I run into and it sometimes tears me up on what I should do. People always think they know what a cop is and what his job is, and separating the facts from fiction can be pretty confusing.
A Law Enforcement officer is a composite of what all men are a mingling of saint and sinner, devil and deity. Cold statistics turn out the lights on the good and brave deeds they do and shine beams of lights on instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news. What that really means is they are exceptional, unusual, and not commonplace. Buried under the murk and froth is the fact that less than half of one half of one percent of policemen commit misconduct, and that's a better average than among clergymen. A policeman made up of several different men at once, he of all men is at once the most needed and most unwanted, a strangely nameless man who is "Sir" to his face and "Pig" to his back. He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals, so that each will think he has won. But if he is neat, he's a flirt or womanizer. If he's sloppy, he's a grouch and dirt bag.
In an instant he must make decisions, which require months for a lawyer and judge, but if he hurries he's careless, if he's deliberate he's lazy. He must be first to an accident, infallible with his diagnosis; he must be able to start breathing and stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued. The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and shoot where it doesn't hurt or kill. He must be able to whip two men twice his size and half his age, without damage to his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him he's a coward, if he hits you he's a bully. A policeman must know everything and not tell; he must know where all sin is and not partake of it. The policeman must, from a single piece of evidence, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding, but if he catches the bad guy he got lucky, if he doesn't he's stupid. If he gets promoted he has political pull, if he doesn't he's a dunce or bad apple.
The police officer must chase bad leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights in row to tag one criminal, sift through countless files and write reports until his eyes ache to build a case against a felon who will cut a deal with a shameless shyster or an honorable who isn't. A policeman must be a minister, social worker, a diplomat, a tough guy, a mechanic, a computer wiz, and a gentleman all in one, and of course he will have to be a genius, because he will have to feed a family on a pitiful policeman's salary.
So I am glad you can get your ccw permit, for once let the bad guys fear who they are preying upon, let them know what its like to be frightened by having a gun shot at you or pointed in your face.
Beo,

Hey Beowulf,

You have put that better than I've ever heard it put before.
I'm not anything to do with law enforcement and so I am glad there are people like you who actually want to make a difference.
I'm too am sorry to hear you lost your partner.

[FVR]

Some 410's are also cap. of firing the 45 long colt.

[Nomad]

beo,
SIR on both sides of you Front and Back!!

nomad
why a .22 as a survival rifle? Forgive my ignorance here as I'm new to firearms.
I can see the .22 for the sake of carrying ammunition, because you can carry
way more bullets for the weight, but what other reasons would be involved in
that particular choice?

The reasons for my choice of a 22 magnum is simple. Inexpensive ammo, low noise, compared to my shotgun. I don't like to make my presence known if at all possible. and it's deadly effective for what I hunt. Groundhogs, squirrell, coon's, rabbit, turkey, etc... Now if I lived out west I would have something in addition to my 22 for use as protection against bears, and big cats.
I'm up for trading my scattergun for a 22 mag. any takers???

[Sourdough]

Count me solid in the .22 Magnum camp also, for a pure survival cartridge. The REMINGTON model 597 with 1X to 4X scope is one of my favorite winter (Big'Fuzzy Sleeps) walk'about firearms. I always wished they would make a rimfire .25 Mag. on the same length case.

Not very many cartridges that you can dump 50 rounds in each front pocket.

[chiye tanka]

Some call me a thug with a badge, and some say I am a Godsend, while still others call me a psychopath, a murderer and evil. Whatever I am… I am efficient.
I work at night in the cold darkness of 3rd shift, when the predators of the city come out, I work from the shadows where no one can see, but I am no less powerful for this. They all know me, drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, gangbangers and car jackers, thieves and muggers, purse snatchers and the average citizen, even the higher ups of the city and county, and especially the press.
Alright most on here know I am a cop, a Deputy Sheriff to be exact, but in the end I'ma cop and if you didn't know that then you don't know me. So anyway I get a lot of questions like "This happened to me what do I do" or "this cop did this what can I do" and I give my advice from my 17+ years of experience.
But here's the thing I run into and it sometimes tears me up on what I should do. People always think they know what a cop is and what his job is, and separating the facts from fiction can be pretty confusing.
A Law Enforcement officer is a composite of what all men are a mingling of saint and sinner, devil and deity. Cold statistics turn out the lights on the good and brave deeds they do and shine beams of lights on instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news. What that really means is they are exceptional, unusual, and not commonplace. Buried under the murk and froth is the fact that less than half of one half of one percent of policemen commit misconduct, and that's a better average than among clergymen. A policeman made up of several different men at once, he of all men is at once the most needed and most unwanted, a strangely nameless man who is "Sir" to his face and "Pig" to his back. He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals, so that each will think he has won. But if he is neat, he's a flirt or womanizer. If he's sloppy, he's a grouch and dirt bag.
In an instant he must make decisions, which require months for a lawyer and judge, but if he hurries he's careless, if he's deliberate he's lazy. He must be first to an accident, infallible with his diagnosis; he must be able to start breathing and stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued. The police officer must know every gun, draw on the run, and shoot where it doesn't hurt or kill. He must be able to whip two men twice his size and half his age, without damage to his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him he's a coward, if he hits you he's a bully. A policeman must know everything and not tell; he must know where all sin is and not partake of it. The policeman must, from a single piece of evidence, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal, and tell you where the criminal is hiding, but if he catches the bad guy he got lucky, if he doesn't he's stupid. If he gets promoted he has political pull, if he doesn't he's a dunce or bad apple.
The police officer must chase bad leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights in row to tag one criminal, sift through countless files and write reports until his eyes ache to build a case against a felon who will cut a deal with a shameless shyster or an honorable who isn't. A policeman must be a minister, social worker, a diplomat, a tough guy, a mechanic, a computer wiz, and a gentleman all in one, and of course he will have to be a genius, because he will have to feed a family on a pitiful policeman's salary.
So I am glad you can get your ccw permit, for once let the bad guys fear who they are preying upon, let them know what its like to be frightened by having a gun shot at you or pointed in your face.
Beo,

Beo, well said brother. I know you have several years on me on the job, but I've seen most of that already.
I COULD NOT have said it any better. Thanks.:cool:
Sorry to hear about the loss of another brother. You know where I am if there's anything I can do.

[chiye tanka]

I agree with the 12 ga. but don't rule out the 45-70. When I lived in New England, Marlin had just intro'd the 1895 Guide Gun. Kittery Trading Post (BIG outdoors store, the Holy Land) had a six month back order due to all the guides in the area wanting one. That says a lot to me.

[Sourdough]

I agree with the 12 ga. but don't rule out the 45-70. When I lived in New England, Marlin had just intro'd the 1895 Guide Gun. Kittery Trading Post (BIG outdoors store, the Holy Land) had a six month back order due to all the guides in the area wanting one. That says a lot to me.

Nothing wrong with the .12 Ga. nothing wrong with the 45/70.......BUT, here is a interesting experiment. Either on paper or in your memory keep track of what you see in the outdoors. like 175 robins to 1 turkey. or 815 prairie dogs to 1 Elk. I have spent a whole week in some parts of Alaska in the fall and seen nothing bigger than spruce hens in the whole week. There is no perfect answer, I think the 256 Winchester, is near perfect. It is a .357 Magnum case necked down to .25 caliber. or the .22 Hornet, or .22 K-Hornet is better.

What if the survival situation lasted 5 months, or 5 years...? Most people only think in terms of 2 days or 4 days, what if it was forever, the rest of your life.....? I would want a lot of ammo.

[klkak]

Hope, I have a Ruger 77/22 hornet stainless/laminated that I had Wild West cut down to 22 inches and recrown. I put low power Burris glass on it. I use it to hunt winter Sitka in PWS as well as fur. I use Remington 45gr. hollow points and Hornady 35gr. V-max's with deadly effectiveness. But then everyone here should know I am a die hard fan of .22 caliber.

[Sourdough]

Years ago when there was a bounty on seals, there was a guy who would fill his pockets with .22 K-Hornets and wander all around Afognak Island shooting seals. He had many run'ins with Kodiak Brown Bears, He just used the .22 k-Hornet to solve the problem. Most likely more Polar Bear been harvested with the .222 Remington than everything else together.

[klkak]

There is nothing wrong with the .223. Well there is the fact that .223 ammo is getting harder to come by due to the war. Oh yea and you can carry more .22 hornet. If you are a good shot you won't need all those fast back up shot you get with the AR. Nope, there is nothing wrong with the .223, Nothing at all.

[crashdive123]

Just bought another 1000 rounds of 223 this past week end. No shortage at the gun show I attended, but it has gone up in price.

[Bibow]

the only problem with 22 cals is that in some places its illegal for big game that's why i like 243.

[Sourdough]

So, what's wrong with the 223.?

Nothing the .223 Remington, is nothing more than the .222 Remington Magnum with the shoulder changed so the Government did not have to pay Remington a fee.

If one wants to be super critical of the .223 Rem. class of cartridges, it is the painful loud report. Making it hard to hunt game or scout the enemy with our ears wide open, and the next second, painful loud discharge, and made worse by the 10" 14" or 16" barrel length.

[Runs With Beer]

Think about, The shotgun is sub sonic the 22 Mag is not. You will here the 22 long ahead of the shotgun.

[Sourdough]

It is MY hearing I care about, I shoot all three most days. And the .223 Is the only one I must have hearing protection for. For all firearms hearing protection should be used. But if you are hunting you can't have hearing protection on. In a DLP situation I will discharge the .22 mag. or the shotguns, but it really hurts to discharge the 10" barrel AR-15 .223 Rem. or 6.8 SPC.

[klkak]

Think about, The shotgun is sub sonic the 22 Mag is not. You will here the 22 long ahead of the shotgun.

:eek:The shotgun is sub-sonic?:confused:

What ballistics charts are you reading?

Even Remington's Managed recoil target loads clock 1100 fps. That is not sub-sonic my friend.

You need to have your fact straight before you make a post.

[chiye tanka]

Hopeak I see your point, just saying that in bear country the 45-70 wouldn't be a bad idea.

Klkak, how do you like Wild West's work? Been thinking about having them do a 1895 guide gun for me.

[klkak]

Hopeak I see your point, just saying that in bear country the 45-70 wouldn't be a bad idea.

Klkak, how do you like Wild West's work? Been thinking about having them do a 1895 guide gun for me.

Wild West Guns is second to none. So are their prices!

I had them do some work on my Ruger 77/22 Hornet. On a good day I can shoot dime sized groups at 100 yards with it. Which is real nice since a Sitka blacktails eye is about the size of a quarter.:cool:

[Le Loup]

A 20 gauge/.62 cal flintlock fusil, or a .32 cal flintlock rifle.

[HOP]

If shooting zombies is not in the senario The gun in my photo would work for me it is an old Stevens .22/410 it has a plastic stock that is holow with a 1"hole in the bottom that you could store a few items.http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r124/HOP_2007/100_0669.jpg

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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