Mosin nagant rifle question on headspace.

[ADEPT]

I just got a Mosin nagant M44 in 7.62X54r. I've cleaned it well doing a field maintenance break down only. I have read where its a good idea to do a headspace check but the cost for this with a gunsmith is more than I paid for the rifle ($65 :D) How important do you feel this really is?

[klkak]

The gun is going to fire even if the head space is a little off. Accuracy is what is really going to suffer. You can take an unfired cartridge and mark the shoulder with a black permanent marker then fire it. If the head space is off then the shoulder will move from where you marked it. If this happens then you can have it fixed or just live with it. Remember you are talking about a very cheap gun.

[ADEPT]

Thanks klkak. And yeah its cheap but fun. All I want it for is a plinker, and if it does happen to be pretty accurate then so much the better. I was thinking of getting one for my truck to keep in the back, but I'm not sure if its legal to do so. I have a concealed carry permit for TN so do you think I would be legal to keep a rifle and a few rounds in the back? The rounds would be with the rifle but not loaded into it. Thanks

[crashdive123]

ADEPT - Here is the opinion of the Tennessee Attorney General:

1. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1307(a)(1) states that "a person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm," a certain kind of knife or a club. This statute does not prohibit owning or carrying a firearm. It prohibits the carrying of a firearm with the intent to go armed. Thus, the carrying of a firearm is prohibited only when it is carried in a manner so as to be "readily accessible and available for use in the carrying out of purposes either offensive or defensive." Kendall v. State, 118 Tenn. 156, 101 S.W. 189 (1906). This statute does not, in the opinion of this Office, infringe upon the citizen's "right to keep and bear arms for their common defense."

The right established by Article I, Section 26 does not apply to every type of arm. Andrew v. The State, supra, and Aymette v. The State, supra, clearly establish that the right applies only to arms that "make up the usual arms of the citizen of the country, and the use of which will properly train and render him efficient in defense of his own liberties, as well as of the state." Andrews v. The State, 50 Tenn. at 179. Weapsons not falling in this description do not receive the protection of Article I, Section 26 at all.


Wearing constitutionally protected weapons can still be regulated as long as it is done "with a view to prevent crime." Andrews indicates that such regulations must "bear some well defined relation to the prevention of crime...." Id., at 181. This would include limiting the use of such arms to the ordinary mode and at the usual times and places. Id., at 182. The right to keep and bear arms "is no more above regulation for the general good than any other right." Id., at 185, quoting Aymette v. The State, 21 Tenn. at 159. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1307(a)(1) is within the powers of the state and bears a well defined relation to the prevention of crime by regulating the manner in which firearms may be carried. A firearm carried without the intent to go armed is less likely to be used in a crime.

If in doubt, call your local law enforcement or NRA office before you intall that rifle rack.

[ADEPT]

I forgot to say in the other post that I have a Carry permit but I don't know if that pertains to rifles.
Thanks crash for that info though, its always good to learn the wording for your states gun laws. They seem to differ much from state to state. And I'm gonna call the TN NRA office in Nashiville. My $35 bucks a year and at least they can answer me one question. Well, I hope. Thanks

[klkak]

ADEPT - Here is the opinion of the Tennessee Attorney General:

1. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1307(a)(1) states that "a person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm," a certain kind of knife or a club. This statute does not prohibit owning or carrying a firearm. It prohibits the carrying of a firearm with the intent to go armed. Thus, the carrying of a firearm is prohibited only when it is carried in a manner so as to be "readily accessible and available for use in the carrying out of purposes either offensive or defensive." Kendall v. State, 118 Tenn. 156, 101 S.W. 189 (1906). This statute does not, in the opinion of this Office, infringe upon the citizen's "right to keep and bear arms for their common defense."

The right established by Article I, Section 26 does not apply to every type of arm. Andrew v. The State, supra, and Aymette v. The State, supra, clearly establish that the right applies only to arms that "make up the usual arms of the citizen of the country, and the use of which will properly train and render him efficient in defense of his own liberties, as well as of the state." Andrews v. The State, 50 Tenn. at 179. Weapsons not falling in this description do not receive the protection of Article I, Section 26 at all.


Wearing constitutionally protected weapons can still be regulated as long as it is done "with a view to prevent crime." Andrews indicates that such regulations must "bear some well defined relation to the prevention of crime...." Id., at 181. This would include limiting the use of such arms to the ordinary mode and at the usual times and places. Id., at 182. The right to keep and bear arms "is no more above regulation for the general good than any other right." Id., at 185, quoting Aymette v. The State, 21 Tenn. at 159. Tenn. Code Ann. § 39-17-1307(a)(1) is within the powers of the state and bears a well defined relation to the prevention of crime by regulating the manner in which firearms may be carried. A firearm carried without the intent to go armed is less likely to be used in a crime.

If in doubt, call your local law enforcement or NRA office before you intall that rifle rack.

Thanks Crash, now I have a headache!

[ADEPT]

ok, I shot it today after work and it is pretty accurate, and wow what a beast it is. The 185 grain bullet makes a hyooge hole. All in all not too bad for the money I paid I think. :)

[canid]

remember that if you ask the local law enforcement about the legality of any ambiguous issue, you are likely only to get their opinion or position on the matter. this is double edged sword, so to speak because while it does not tell you in all cases what is legal or illegal [you won't believe how many members of california law enforcement are ignorant of concealed and dangerous weapon law as it regards the carry of knives], it does tell you how they are likely to treat it locally.

[FVR]

The problem you have with many of the old rifles, is the switching of barrels and receivers.

If you are not going to get the headspace checked, take it to the gunsmith anyway and have them check to see if the barrel is seated correctly. I had a beautiful 8mm mauser that shot okay, I took it to the local smith in Marietta, he looked into the receiver and showed me a gap where a diff. barrel was put on, and not seated correctly. He said I was lucky that the barrel did not fly off.

After that, all my old military rifles get the once over by Deercreek. If the barrel has been changed out, they can tell, then you would need to worry about headspace.

My biggest problem with the FR-8 is the opinions on military ammo vs standard 308 ammo. So, I took it to my gunsmith, he did a quick check, and informed me that the standard 308 ammo would work just fine as the barrel was properly put on and seated.

Better safe than dead.

I do have an old friend who lost his right hand and lower arm because of a mistake.

[ADEPT]

The problem you have with many of the old rifles, is the switching of barrels and receivers.

If you are not going to get the headspace checked, take it to the gunsmith anyway and have them check to see if the barrel is seated correctly. I had a beautiful 8mm mauser that shot okay, I took it to the local smith in Marietta, he looked into the receiver and showed me a gap where a diff. barrel was put on, and not seated correctly. He said I was lucky that the barrel did not fly off.

After that, all my old military rifles get the once over by Deercreek. If the barrel has been changed out, they can tell, then you would need to worry about headspace.

My biggest problem with the FR-8 is the opinions on military ammo vs standard 308 ammo. So, I took it to my gunsmith, he did a quick check, and informed me that the standard 308 ammo would work just fine as the barrel was properly put on and seated.

Better safe than dead.

I do have an old friend who lost his right hand and lower arm because of a mistake.

wow, I'll just have to get it checked then. I work next door to Dixie gun works, one of the largest black powder weapons companies in the world. The only prob is I used to date the owner's daughter and it didn't end well. That was like 10 years ago, I guess its time to see if he's still mad at me. :D

[trax]

wow, I'll just have to get it checked then. I work next door to Dixie gun works, one of the largest black powder weapons companies in the world. The only prob is I used to date the owner's daughter and it didn't end well. That was like 10 years ago, I guess its time to see if he's still mad at me. :D

It is never time to see if a man is still mad at you when he owns one of the largest black powder weapons companies in the world. This would be doubly so if it involves his daughter. That's like when a man with a gun threatens to kill you and you respond with "I dare you". Just not good judgement there, ADEPT, I'd go find another gunsmith. Just my .02

[tsitenha]

Or maybe she moved on to a an another man and he is ever so glad for it that he may even do it for free.

That didn't come out right did it?

[ADEPT]

It is never time to see if a man is still mad at you when he owns one of the largest black powder weapons companies in the world. This would be doubly so if it involves his daughter. That's like when a man with a gun threatens to kill you and you respond with "I dare you". Just not good judgement there, ADEPT, I'd go find another gunsmith. Just my .02

That was just supposed to be an amusing anecdote, but I can see where a dad might say he!! yeah I would be still mad so let me explain. I was dating his daughter my senior year of H.S. (1999 yeah I know I'm young for all you old farts. *said under breath. ;) in a most respectful way) She ended up cheating on me and I found out and called her a few choice ones and we broke up. She being the socialite that she was, told her daddy an he comes an has a "talk" with me thinking I was solely in the wrong. I proceeded to tell him exactly what happened and who my sources where and he said "oh well I can see how you could be mad" and that was the end of it. I've seen him a few times since and he has always been polite so I think I would be ok. It has always been weird when I have seen him though. They have a big store so I'll probably won't see him but an employee and they do have the best gunsmiths in my area.

[ADEPT]

Or maybe she moved on to a an another man and he is ever so glad for it that he may even do it for free.

That didn't come out right did it?

haha, thanks i think :confused:

[tsitenha]

His good name in the firearms industries wouldn't allow him to even consider such a thing, get it done.

[crashdive123]

yeah I know I'm young for all you old farts. *said under breath. ;)


Just because some of us have socks as old as you.......what makes you say that?;)

[ADEPT]

Just because some of us have socks as old as you.......what makes you say that?;)

haha, You know if humans could contract viruses from computers and the members of this site all died off, I bet Viagra would take a hit. :D

[ADEPT]

*checks window for hordes of cagey old men with pitch forks and blue pill bottles*

[klkak]

*checks window for hordes of cagey old men with pitch forks and blue pill bottles*

Keep it up, you are winning friends with every word you type:confused:

[crashdive123]

*checks window for hordes of cagey old men with pitch forks and blue pill bottles*

That's not what you should be looking out for. Cagey old men got to be cagey and old by......well, being cagey. <<it's the ninjas you need to look out for>>

[ADEPT]

Keep it up, you are winning friends with every word you type:confused:

come on, y'all gotta know I'm kiddin. What would a good forums be without friendly banter.

[ADEPT]

That's not what you should be looking out for. Cagey old men got to be cagey and old by......well, being cagey. <<it's the ninjas you need to look out for>>

Ok, I quit. I'm making a mental note not to try and one up crash again. :D This could go on forever

[Rick]

Yeah, if her dad was REALLY mad at you I'm sure you'd be smoke by now. Of course, he might still be perturbed in which case he'll just charge you more.:D

[ADEPT]

Yeah, if her dad was REALLY mad at you I'm sure you'd be smoke by now. Of course, he might still be perturbed in which case he'll just charge you more.:D

haha, too true. I took it in today and they ended up having a set of go, no go, gauges for 7.62 x 54 rounds, so they are gonna check that and the condition of barrel and receiver. Total cost is $50 bucks, but well worth it after what FVR wrote.

[crashdive123]

Hmmmmm. Ninjas may not be required here. Maybe an email to the owner of Dixie......hey do you remember that guy that broke your little girls heart? Yeah, that's the one. Well he said something about you being an old fart and your daughter.....well I can't repeat it. Anyway, he'll be bringing a rifle in to have you check it out....thought you might like to say hi.

Yep, downright cagey ya might say.

[ADEPT]

Hmmmmm. Ninjas may not be required here. Maybe an email to the owner of Dixie......hey do you remember that guy that broke your little girls heart? Yeah, that's the one. Well he said something about you being an old fart and your daughter.....well I can't repeat it. Anyway, he'll be bringing a rifle in to have you check it out....thought you might like to say hi.

Yep, downright cagey ya might say.

hahaha, oh that would suck. ok ok, your not cagey just well seasoned, toughened, gentlemen who are well versed in the ways of the world. Which whom a young man like myself should and is privileged to learn from. All kidding aside you guys are pretty cool.

[crashdive123]

It's all about survival youngin, all about survival.;)

[ADEPT]

it is that and there is a lot of good info on the site, but its the people who make this one. I've been a guest on most and this ones got the best overall attitude about helping people that I've seen. thanks for that.

[crashdive123]

Ahhhhhh give us some time....we can change that.:D:D:D kidding, just kidding!

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[yellowcab]

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