Night # 2 "Alone in the DARK" Lessons learned

[Sourdough]

It was not only dark, but also a foggy and cold night, last night. So off I ventured at last light of the day, taking "NO" flashlight or artificial light of any type.

This is what was learned tonight. Binoculars are vastly better than rifle scope for identifying objects in low to no light in the deep and dark woods at night. One could say the difference was night and day. However there comes a point where even the binoculars are useless.

I learned to avoid the creeks because of the noise they make voids one of your last two useful defensive senses, hearing.

I could not detect changes in smell, other than the level of dampness of the air.

I learned that If anything had moved, I would have been hard pressed to hold my fire. For those who don't know, I co-habituate with number of LARGE fuzzy things with long claws, and sharp teeth. I could only distinguish objects at three feet to ten feet, depending on the forest canopy.

I was not scared, but was extremely uncomfortable with the conditions. And must admit that had anything large moved I was sure that stark terror would have been my automatic uncontrollable reaction.

I also learned that when you fall, you have no control over where you land, as contrasted with daytime you can make minor adjustments in mid-fall so as to avoid sharp sticks or sharp rocks. In the dark you just fall and have a surprising amount of time to wonder if you will get hurt, and how badly.

I thought after falling several times that I should have brought a flashlight, for should I have gotten hurt it would help with getting home. But that would have voided the whole point of the research.

I wonder if colored glasses would help, like amber, yellow or rose.....???

[canid]

you sure you meant research and not aneurysm? if the terrain is uneven, i stay put when it's dark.

as for the colored shades, i've tried using green tinted lenses in oregon whilst looking for some of those little pointy capped fun guys that like to hide in grasses [excpetion to the above rule about staying put when it's dark. you can read a newspaper on an overcast night when your pupils are the size of dinner plates]. the success was limited, but there seemed to be some benefit of contrasting all the not green things. i don't know how well that would work in low light conditions, as the cones don't work so well in the dark. i'd experiment.

[Rick]

Wouldn't it be better to have a flashlight and not use it than to need one and not have it? I've heard that somewhere. And what of the large brown poodle? No help with large brown furry stuff? Or cowering at home where it's comfortable?

[RobertRogers]

"I learned that If anything had moved, I would have been hard pressed to hold my fire."

STAY IN TOWN AT NIGHT! I do not want to insult you, but that is just plain dumb. I say this for your own good and that of anyone else who may be out at night.

You may think other people are not out and about in the wilds at night. Think again. For example, a few nights ago I met a group of mountain bikers riding the local trails. I very much enjoy night hiking. Or maybe you would shoot me in my encampment when you heard me snoring!

Manslaughter charges, or firing into an object right next to you and getting hit by your own shrapnel are just a few of the scenarios I can see.

The chances of something trying to get you in the darkness are millions to one, less than getting hit by a car while crossing the street (by far).

If you are scared out of your mind, put your rifle down and come back for it in the morning.

[Sourdough]

"I learned that If anything had moved, I would have been hard pressed to hold my fire."

STAY IN TOWN AT NIGHT! I do not want to insult you, but that is just plain dumb. I say this for your own good and that of anyone else who may be out at night.

You may think other people are not out and about in the wilds at night. Think again. For example, a few nights ago I met a group of mountain bikers riding the local trails. I very much enjoy night hiking. Or maybe you would shoot me in my encampment when you heard me snoring!

Manslaughter charges, or firing into an object right next to you and getting hit by your own shrapnel are just a few of the scenarios I can see.

The chances of something trying to get you in the darkness are millions to one, less than getting hit by a car while crossing the street (by far).

If you are scared out of your mind, put your rifle down and come back for it in the morning.

My dear Mr Rogers, I have never, ever, ever, ever encountered anyone (Human) in my part of the wilderness, never. Never even a footprint. I was on my property. I was doing testing of me and testing of equipment. You really have no idea where I live or how I live. Have you ever gone six months and never seen a human. Were ever you live the silly humans most likely out number the Grizzly/Brown Bears. Your not a school teacher by chance....?

[Sourdough]

STAY IN TOWN AT NIGHT! I do not want to insult you, but that is just plain dumb. I say this for your own good and that of anyone else who may be out at night.

You don't insult me, only yourself, you silly city person. Town is where I go once every (8) eight weeks to get supplies. And I never stay there at night, because it is infested by humans.

[Sourdough]

Wouldn't it be better to have a flashlight and not use it than to need one and not have it? I've heard that somewhere. And what of the large brown poodle? No help with large brown furry stuff? Or cowering at home where it's comfortable?

Easier..? Yes......Educational.....? No.....! Someone has to go afield and write the reports for "Google".

[crashdive123]

Hope - I'm curious. With as long as you've been there, and with your guiding background I would have thought this would be a common experience for you. While I know you don't head to your outhouse without a weapon, and you've talked about walk about guns in the past, would the addition of a staff have kept the falls from occuring?

[RobertRogers]

I never intended to insult, please do not insult me. I only appeal to reason for yours and the good of everyone else. I ask that you do not take it the wrong way.

Firing a weapon anywhere means you take full responsibility for the result. Firing blindly into the darkness is gambling with your life and that of others. There are a myriad of reasons why someone else may be in your area, though you never saw anyone else there before and even if it is your property. I stake my wilderness survival reputation on that.

Simply put, do not do it. I have spoken.

[Sourdough]

Hope - I'm curious. With as long as you've been there, and with your guiding background I would have thought this would be a common experience for you. While I know you don't head to your outhouse without a weapon, and you've talked about walk about guns in the past, would the addition of a staff have kept the falls from occurring?


A Good and Helpful idea. Yes, a walking stick might help. I am ashamed to say, that when guiding I always carry a flashlight, or those modern headlight LED thingies. There is dark, and then there is damn dark, and I wanted to learn what of the tools I normally carry would be helpful. The binoculars was something I had forgot about using. I had not realized how little percentage wise of my daylight hiking is spent checking footing, maybe 5% to 10%. But in the dark it was 90% plus. And remember this was in my back yard.

We also never think about reloading in the dark, or clearing a malfunction. For that reason tonight I'll take the sawed off side by side. You can reload by feel.

[RobertRogers]

You don't insult me, only yourself, you silly city person. Town is where I go once every (8) eight weeks to get supplies. And I never stay there at night, because it is infested by humans.

I was merely pointing out that since you are afraid of the dark, as you clearly are, you should think twice about carrying a rifle while in the dark.

[ryaninmichigan]

I was merely pointing out that since you are afraid of the dark, as you clearly are, you should think twice about carrying a rifle while in the dark.

Ziiiiinnnngggg.

[trax]

Ziiiiinnnngggg.

Now was that the sound of a bullet passing oh so closely overhead in the dark? :D :D :D (couldn't resist)

[Sourdough]

I was merely pointing out that since you are afraid of the dark, as you clearly are, you should think twice about carrying a rifle while in the dark.


I tried to be nice. I tried to diplomatic. If you learn to read you would get that I stated clearly was "NOT" afraid the dark. I was concerned about the 1,000 pound Grizzly/Brown Bears that outnumber the the humans 100 to 1 in these parts. No place but in you imagination did I state being afraid of the DARK. However I have utmost respect for the large Brown Bears even in the full light of day.

If this is still unclear, I can draw you a picture.



:):):):)

[trax]

If this is still unclear, I can draw you a picture.
:):):):)

Use a black crayon on black paper!

[Icemancometh]

hopeak:
I have not been around here long but I appreciate and envy your enthusiasm. If it works for you I say do it.

[crashdive123]

Is that kind of like if it works for you, it works for me?

[wareagle69]

ok dude, hmm lets start with da grizzles not sure cuz i have not met any but could you not smell them in the dark? (of course it would probably mean you're within cuddleing reach) and now for night walking
first off slow down wheres the fire, what type of foot wear are you useing? ther is a reason the indians used moccisans you need something soft on your feet and feel with your toes i almost shuffle along or you can high step keeping your balance on your firmly balanced leg then press down with your lead foot feeling what you are about to step on.. very slow and akward at first but then gets easier and faster as with anything

[Icemancometh]

Is that kind of like if it works for you, it works for me?


that would be correct. in otherwords: To each his own

[wareagle69]

not in other words iceman those are the words

[laughing beetle]

not in other words iceman those are the words

Absolutly!!:D:D

[crashdive123]

Sorry Iceman - it's just a saying I use from time to time.

[ryaninmichigan]

discharging your weapon at something you can not ID is a big mistake. bottom line.

[Sourdough]

discharging your weapon at something you can not ID is a big mistake. bottom line.

I agree 100%......Now, the question on the table is: Other than battery powered night vision goggles. Do you have any ideas on assisting night vision.

[crashdive123]

Hope - one of the things I learned quite a while ago was to not look directly at what you want to see, but rather try and use your peripheral vision to see what you want. I don't know how it works, but it does work some. On the surface of an open ocean - no moon - no stars - gets mighty dark. The only lights are from the phosphorescence generated from little sea creatures.

[tsitenha]

Eating blueberries, billberries and others of the same family of berries will gradually improve your night vision, (night fighter pilots WWII used this method)
Carrots will also help, none of theses are failsafe but they do improve over a period of time.
Carry a storm lamp, early colonist used a candle in a lamp that had a perforated tin body worked well enough for them. The back side of the lamp was solid and polished reflecting the small amount of light away from your eyes and toward your traveling direction

[Sourdough]

This is meant to be funny so don't have a cow, or go ahead have a cow. So you are OK with the whole ID thing. Please be assured all bodies are ID be for being turned over to the Grizzly Bears for proper disposal.

[laughing beetle]

HAHAHAHA!!! more coffee on the computer screen!!! HAHAHAHA!!! :D:D

[Sourdough]

discharging your weapon at something you can not ID is a big mistake. bottom line.

Here is a "Bottom Line" for ya. Many times I have gone into tall grass and willow thickets to Finnish off wounded Bears. When charged at 12' feet, I don't ask for proper ID. However I do present my ID .375 H&H. Please note I present my ID over and over as fast as I can.

[laughing beetle]

Amen to that!! :)

[ryaninmichigan]

Here is a "Bottom Line" for ya. Many times I have gone into tall grass and willow thickets to Finnish off wounded Bears. When charged at 12' feet, I don't ask for proper ID. However I do present my ID .375 H&H. Please note I present my ID over and over as fast as I can.

Going in for a wounded bear is another topic. Wondering aroud in the dark is another. Remeber We have bears also. your not the only one to be charged. The longer you are in the dark I find, teh better vission gets.

[crashdive123]

Please don't take this as a jab Hope - one of the things that I have noticed as I get older is that my night vision is not as good as it was long ago. That may be contributing a bit.

[Sourdough]

Please don't take this as a jab Hope - one of the things that I have noticed as I get older is that my night vision is not as good as it was long ago. That may be contributing a bit.


Crash, I have "Blessed" eyesight, even at near 62 I have 20/20 and 20/15. This project started out as a practice in reconnaissance. SHTF, and I want to monitor what human activity is in the area. Kind of a variation on my regular daylight patrols to see which bears are in the swamps, or along the river fishing. The snows came for keeps today so there will be no more dark-dark nights. It was a narrow window of little moon, no snow, in which to do some research. I am good with the results. I still wonder about yellow goggles. Or even a helmet with yellow motorcycle lens. I would like to be able to distinguish a person at a safe distance, so as to be able to retreat, without engagement. Maybe I should buy some "night vision" goggles so I can properly "ID" targets, be for shooting them. I think the target won't care as much as people on this forum care........:)

[crashdive123]

Gotcha......

[wareagle69]

Here is a "Bottom Line" for ya. Many times I have gone into tall grass and willow thickets to Finnish off wounded Bears. When charged at 12' feet, I don't ask for proper ID. However I do present my ID .375 H&H. Please note I present my ID over and over as fast as I can.

so are you wounding finnish bears or are you going to finnish wounded bears:eek::D

[Rick]

I have a Sony handi cam that I purchased several years ago. The neat thing is it has night vision built in. I can film at night in nearly total darkness without lights and it was a lot cheaper than night vision goggles.

Hopeak, the only thing I can offer is a red lensed flashlight.

[Gray Wolf]

Rick, what model Sony is that?

[Rick]

It's the CCD-TRV65. I bought it in '99. It's out of production but I'm sure you can still find the technology on other cameras. It has what Sony called Nightshot capability. You can film in 0 lux.

[indiana joe]

thanks for the report you never learn unless you try i envy your remote location
to be part of the wild instead of visiting it is a dream of many but many are also to
scared to try.

[Jay]

1 This is a very interesting experiment. I've had similar experinces in real situations and my feelings and conclutions about it mirror yours to a large extent. I think you should (maybe all of us) do this more often and carefully document our feeling and thoughts. (after we come back home.) I do an exercise with my military students...where they are blindfolded and sent over difficult terrain along a pre laid course. A string is streched from tree to tree,over and under obstacles through thick brush etc. the student has to keep a hand on the string and negotiate his way along the course. At the debrief I ask them. How far do you think you traveled. what was under foot, what did you smell what trees did you touch. (some can be identified clearly by touch....bark texture shape of leaves smell etc.) How many knots were on the string. what did you hear. etc. Some people just dont absorb much via other senses once they loose the sense of sight. A very few are remarkably accurate in their discription of the terrain and conditions involved. one even gave compass directions based on how the heat of the sun was hitting his body.


Do this exercise if you can.....its a real eye operner. You'll be amazed at how much we depend on our sight.


I learned to avoid the creeks because of the noise they make voids one of your last two useful defensive senses, hearing.
2 I learned that working in elephant county. I'm extremely uncomfortable if my hearing is interfered with. Ditto rain.

I could not detect changes in smell, other than the level of dampness of the air.
2 I agree....especially in damp or wet conditions.

I learned that If anything had moved, I would have been hard pressed to hold my fire. For those who don't know, I co-habituate with number of LARGE fuzzy things with long claws, and sharp teeth. I could only distinguish objects at three feet to ten feet, depending on the forest canopy.
3 Sometimes suspense builds up to such a level that it hard not to do anything. every nerve is screaming for action....some action....any action!

I was not scared, but was extremely uncomfortable with the conditions. And must admit that had anything large moved I was sure that stark terror would have been my automatic uncontrollable reaction.

4 I agree completely. I am not scared...just quite frequently terrified. Especially since some of the animals in areas that I work in carry automatic wepons.

I also learned that when you fall, you have no control over where you land, as contrasted with daytime you can make minor adjustments in mid-fall so as to avoid sharp sticks or sharp rocks. In the dark you just fall and have a surprising amount of time to wonder if you will get hurt, and how badly.


5 Ditto. found that moving slowly in a low crouch with thighs almost paralel to the ground helps a bit.


I thought after falling several times that I should have brought a flashlight, for should I have gotten hurt it would help with getting home. But that would have voided the whole point of the research.

I wonder if colored glasses would help, like amber, yellow or rose.....???[/QUOTE]


6 It would be nice to get some feedback from other who have tried this. I think it will be a very useful experiment and will teach us a lot of lessons.

my two cents worth.
cheers
J