Forging a knife

[Blood Groove]

Over the summer I got an apprenticeship with a blacksmith. He made 300 of the swords for the movie Braveheart. Right now I'm making a bowie knife, it's my first time making a knife. Saddly I don't own a digital camera, but it's 12 1/2 inches long from high carbon spring steel (1095) It's got a ball-peen finish and a slightly curved handle. It's hollow ground, and has a sharpened false point (Will have it's not there yet) If any of you guys have made knives by forging of grinding or whatever I'd love to hear about it. :)

[Sourdough]

BG, I am impressed. Good for you. Any chance you can work with him next summer.....?

What material will you put on the handel....? Does he do leather work...?

[Ole WV Coot]

What's this maker's name? I would like to see some examples of your and his work. I have been interested in giving it a try myself and maybe pick up a few pointers.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Ive done a little green sand molding with brass and copper

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

this is a copper rose that i forged...http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=87

[Blood Groove]

BG, I am impressed. Good for you. Any chance you can work with him next summer.....?

What material will you put on the handel....? Does he do leather work...?

Thanks! I'm stilll working with him through the school, year and I plan to continue into next summer as well. For the handel I'm using Black Walnut, and yes he also works leather to make the sheaths. I think that a dark handle, gold guard and a silver blade with a ball-peen finish is going to look really good. I just did the heat treating today (It's oil quenched) and it didn't crack wich is great. The bad news is that when I was annealing it I used a small oven and I think it got too hot. It might be too soft. I'm going to take it to this factory on monday though, and a guy I know there can get the RC hardness with his epuipment, so I'll know then if it's too soft. I'd hate to have to repeat the oil quench again, I wouldn't want it to break!

[Gray Wolf]

BG does it have a full tang?

[Blood Groove]

What's this maker's name? I would like to see some examples of your and his work. I have been interested in giving it a try myself and maybe pick up a few pointers.

His name's Stuart, when he made the swords he was working for a different guy, but now he does his own work and has his own business. Saddly he doesn't have a website for his business but I think he has a my-space page for it, I'll ask him what that is next time I see him, and then get back to you. I don't know if he has some pictures up there or not. When I finish my knife I'd like to get it on the internet somehow. I'll have to barrow a digital camera or something.

[crashdive123]

Or you can use a regular camera (even the disposable ones) and most of your photo developing places can download digital pictures to a disk for you.

[Blood Groove]

BG does it have a full tang?

Yeah it's full tang with the wooden handel scales connected to the tang. It's going to be connected by 5 pewter pins.

[Blood Groove]

Or you can use a regular camera (even the disposable ones) and most of your photo developing places can download digital pictures to a disk for you.

Oh yeah? So I guess wallmart can do it then, because that's where I get my pictures developed. Well good then I'll try that. thanks.

[Gray Wolf]

Are you going to put a lanyard hole at the end of the handle?

[Blood Groove]

this is a copper rose that i forged...http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=16&pictureid=87

Hey, that looks great! Stuart does some flowers like that too. He makes them out of aluminum and uses a ball-peen to form them to the flower shape.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Yeah it's full tang with the wooden handel scales connected to the tang. It's going to be connected by 5 pewter pins.

I have seen knives like that but i think they were pinned with bone

[crashdive123]

That's some nice work with that copper rose erunkiswldrnssurvival.

[Blood Groove]

Are you going to put a lanyard hole at the end of the handle?

I was planning to eventhough I don't really use the lanyard hole on my other knives, but it's already heat treated now, and I don't think we can drill threw it. We had a hard enough time drilling the pin holes before it was heat treated, because all the drill bit's were pretty dull. I had one in my original sketch though.

[Blood Groove]

I have seen knives like that but i think they were pinned with bone

I'm not quite sure his technique for securing the pewter, but he uses it with all his knives and says that it holds great.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

THANKS Blood Groove, I used ball peen hammers and i carved depressions in wood to partialy shape the parts. I even made copper nails to secure them to the wood base

[Gray Wolf]

Hey you can always do it on your next one if you want.

[Blood Groove]

Hey you can always do it on your next one if you want.

Yeah I'll be sure to include one in the next knife I make.

[Blood Groove]

THANKS Blood Groove, I used ball peen hammers and i carved depressions in wood to partialy shape the parts. I even made copper nails to secure them to the wood base

Wow! How long did it take you to make that?

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

to make the Rose , and Leaves then mount it bout three hours. to set up the tools about
two hours.(carving and shaping the chisels,ect)...

[Blood Groove]

Did you make more than one of them? It looks like a one-of-a-kind piece of work to me.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

thats the only one of those.i have a friend that builds water fountains, out of hammered bronze I gained some experiance from him

[Blood Groove]

Oh wow, water fountains!? I bet he gets a fortune for those.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

You'll have to tell me more about how you make your knives

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

Oh wow, water fountains!? I bet he gets a fortune for those.

Yea he does he does multi colored patenas, puffy fish, some rose and flower stuff, his fountains are spectacular

[Blood Groove]

Well I don't think that the way I do it is very different from how others do it. I just start with a chunk of 1095 high carbon steel and stick it in the forge. Then it's just a mater of drawing it out as for as you want it, and making a rough point, and handle. The just working on your taper on the spine of the blade and the handle. After you get it pretty close to how you want it, you can do the rest on a belt grinder. Actually I was really suprised to see how much work could be done on the belt grinder. OF course that's the rough grind. After that you can heat treat it, temper it, and do the finishing grind. Then you connect the handle. As for the guard, I'm not too sure how they work and how they are secured to the blade, but I'm going to learn about it soon. That's basically it, but obviously it takes a lot of other little details that I haven't written about. I'm really not very skilled at it yet though.

[Blood Groove]

They sound pretty amazing to me.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

That guy taught me how to heat and hammer the metal i'm sure steel isnt much different
anneal the metal with heat then hammer, repeat the process

[Blood Groove]

Yeah, I guess that every time after your done pounding on a knife putting it back in the forge is like annealing it. Then like you said you just take it out and pound again. The good thing about carbon steels is the more you pound on them the smaller the grain structure of the metal gets, which means that when you heat treat it it's got a smaller chance of cracking, when it's done it'll hold a better edge and not crack. The guy who taught you all those things sounds like he has some serious skill. Well It's getting late, I'm headed off to bed now.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

YEA skill and Desire

[Ole WV Coot]

That rose is an art piece for sure. I am a little short on the talent side so I am always interested in how things are made. Might I suggest a fancy display knife for some future project? I am sure interested in the walnut handles and pics of the knife you forged BG. Way back when he was alive John Ek made fighters with poured lead rivets and I was fortunate enough to get one. The rivets were lead because he said if the handles ever got loose just hit it with something hard to tighten. I retired my edge & 1/2 Ek in the late 60s but still keep it handy in the bedroom. Second or third set of handles, now walnut with plain copper rivets. It and my KaBar also from the same era both retired along with me now. If you can equal Ek's steel you will have a winner.

[erunkiswldrnssurvival]

The lead rivits reach back to the early greek/ roman era. thats a good method to know.Thnks you ole Coot

[Blood Groove]

Ole Coot, I really like the idea of lead rivets! I'd have never thought about that but it makes so much sence. You just give it a few good hits and it's tight again. I'll remember that technique. Well if I can get pictures up on the site I will. I can't wait until I finish it. It shouldn't be too long now.

[Blood Groove]

Well the Rockwell testing I got said that it was 37...but they tested a part taht wasn't dunked in the oil. We only put about half the blade in the oil, and the spine was out, so it would have a lower hardness than the blade (It makes the knife more tough) I went to do blacksmithing today, and Stuart ran a file over the blade. The blade has a good hardness (Although I don't know what the Rockwell is) And the spine and handle are softer. But we don't have to re heat-treat it. We started making the guard, and then I did some hand-filing on it. Oh Stuarts business is called Highland Iron Works, and his full name is Stuart MacCaskill. I think that Highland Iron Works site is on a my-space. In case anyone wanted to know.

[Blood Groove]

Well I did some more work on my knife today. I finished the filing...with a belt grinder, and then drilled the handle holes. The knife could be done as soon as this Saturday.

[crashdive123]

Good deal. You know of course that we're still expecting pictures.

[Blood Groove]

I'll try my best to get some up. I like the wallmart idea.

[crashdive123]

Do you have a cell phone with a camera in it?

[Blood Groove]

Nope I don't even have a cell phone. But I kind of like it that way, because then I don't get all the prank crap that all my friends send around to everyone they know who has a cell phone.

[crashdive123]

Use one of your friends phones to take the pic and then just email it to yourself.

[Blood Groove]

I'd like to do that...but I'd have to take the knife into school, because I nevre see them anywhere else. Oh and the knife has been delayed, justthe guard got made this saturday, and I can' go back to working on it until next week. Don't worry, I'm going to find some way to get pictures of that thing up!

[Blood Groove]

YES!!! I just became a senior member!

[Blood Groove]

Well I used a hacksaw to cut out teh guard, then I used the beld grinder to get the edges nice and straight and then used silver sodder to secure the guard to my knife, although it was on there pretty right just from friction. So the guard needs to be filed and stuff, to make it look right then all I need are the handle scales, rivits and to shine and sharpn the blade. Then It'll be done. I haven't een able to visit the blacksmith more than once a week because he's really busy. But he says that next visit it'll be done. I'm thinking 2 more at the least though.

[Blood Groove]

Well the knife's finished!!!! I just got done polishing and sharpening it today. It's nice and sharp, and everything. Now all I need is a disposable digital camera or soemthing to get pictures up. There's be here eventually, so anyone who wants to see it can.

[crashdive123]

Looking forward to seeing it BG.

[Blood Groove]

I'm glad you're still interrested Crash.

[Blood Groove]

Well it's all done, I just have to make the sheath. And find a way to get pictures on the internet of course. My dad is going to borrow a digital camera sometime and then I'll put the pictures up. It's really nice though, and very very sharp.

[Gray Wolf]

That's great BG, you must be proud, can't wait to see the pic's!

What kind of edge did you put on it? Flat? Convex?

[crashdive123]

Still looking forward to seeing the pics. I'm getting older though, you may have to hurry.:D

[Blood Groove]

Well there's a digital camera at my dad's work so it could be up tomorrow. But I don't really know how to put pictures on this site. I hope that I could figure it out. Stay alive dang it!:D

[Blood Groove]

That's great BG, you must be proud, can't wait to see the pic's!

What kind of edge did you put on it? Flat? Convex?

Well just kind of done by eye, but it's supposed to be a flat grind, but looking at it, I'd say it's a cross between flat and convex. I kind of like a convex edge though becuase it retains it's edge better than a hollow ground blade, but of course it can't get quite as sharp as a hollowground blade. Still it's very sharp. It shaves hair off my arm adn sheers right through computer paper, and cuts through paracord easily. Those are basically the three ways I test if my knives are sharp enough or not. my new Cold Steel Recon Tanto is the sharpest thing I've ever had. I can just pull it effortlessly through paracord. It's seriously like cutting butter. I want you guys to get to see the knife I made so bad though, I hope I get teh pictures up tomorrow.

[Blood Groove]

OK here's a picture of the knife finally. The dents in it are a ball-peen finish in case you're wondering. The piece of metal is what it originally started out as, and I put a quarter in one of the pictures just for perspective. I hope you enjoy.

[crashdive123]

Great work Blood Groove. Looks like an apprenticeship well spent.

[nell67]

Nice work blood Groove!

[S.E.R.E Guy]

Cool knife, but the question I have is are you going to have it as a show knife or actual opperational field knife?
I've made a few knives before with antler and micarta handles and if your going for a show knife pins look good but if your going opperational I recomend screws because pins and rivets tend to get worked out after a while of putting your knife the the motions

[nell67]

Hey S.E.R.E. Guy,how about heading over to the introductions thread and telling us a little about yourself!

[huntermj]

BG that is one honking big knife! And really cool! Nice work. Have you made a sheath for it yet? if so i would like to see it. Thanks for sharing the pics before crash died. :D

[Blood Groove]

Cool knife, but the question I have is are you going to have it as a show knife or actual opperational field knife?
I've made a few knives before with antler and micarta handles and if your going for a show knife pins look good but if your going opperational I recomend screws because pins and rivets tend to get worked out after a while of putting your knife the the motions

I definitely want this one to be a working knife. I really wouldn't want to make a show knife, I mean it's like making a really nice looking car that can't drive or gun that can't shoot. I'd like to be able to use this one a lot, but you're right the rivets, I don't know if they'd hold tight forever, even thought they are poored pewter. Actually the middle one didn't quite secure the handle to the tang so I had to use some superglue. I like the idea of using screws or something more dependable. The last thing I want on a knife is a loose handle that makes that annoying ratteling noise if you accidentally drop it. Of course this was my first knife, so the next ones will hopefully have improvements. Do you have any pictures up of the knives that you made? I'd love to see them.

[Blood Groove]

BG that is one honking big knife! And really cool! Nice work. Have you made a sheath for it yet? if so i would like to see it. Thanks for sharing the pics before crash died. :D

Lol yeah I'm glad that Crash pulled through.:) As far as the sheath I'm making one right now. I have all the holes punched I just need a big needle. It should be don'e this week I think. I'm really glad you like the knife:D

[Blood Groove]

Thanks everyone! I'm so glad you appreciate my work. I hope to keep this up and make many more knives.

[Rick]

BG - That is some serious art work! You did a fantastic job!

[Blood Groove]

Thanks a lot Rick:D glad you like it!

[Gray Wolf]

Nice work for your first, and thanks for posting the picks. Not sure if you're aware of this, but when making the sheath, don't forget to put that extra strip of leather, so you don't wind up slicing the stitching with the edge of the knife.

[Blood Groove]

Nice work for your first, and thanks for posting the picks. Not sure if you're aware of this, but when making the sheath, don't forget to put that extra strip of leather, so you don't wind up slicing the stitching with the edge of the knife.

Ahh thank you for reminding me of that Gray Wolf, I would have forgotten to put that in there. Yeah it'd hate to have the knife cut right threw the stiching of my sheath.

[tonester]

wow BG thats a really good looking knife you made! i love the finish on the blade. you should keep on making knives!

[chiye tanka]

Great blade BG. Are you going to make the sheath as well?

[Blood Groove]

wow BG thats a really good looking knife you made! i love the finish on the blade. you should keep on making knives!

Thanks, when I show the knife to people they usually don't know what the finish is, but I'm glad that you liked it. Yeah I'd really like to keep on making knives. When I eventually have to stop the apprenticeship, I'm going to get my own forge and anvil and belt grinder ect so I can keep it up.

[Blood Groove]

Great blade BG. Are you going to make the sheath as well?

Thanks. I'm in the process of making a sheath right now. It will be done sometime with week with any luck. I still need to get a big needle to sow the sinew.

[crashdive123]

When your apprenticeship is over, maybe you can get a job with him.

[Runs With Beer]

For the Pewter pins, After you drill the holes in the tang and the handle. Use a counter sink on the handles on both sides,Clamp all togeather down on a hard surface, Pour the melted pewter in the holes, Let cool and sand smooth>

[Blood Groove]

When your apprenticeship is over, maybe you can get a job with him.

I'd love to get a job with him making knives, but my apprenticeship will probably stop when I got to college. And seeing as he's here in New York adn I'm going to college in ohio, I wouldn't be able to work with him. I definitely want to keep making them though. Custom knives fetch a great price, and I love doing it.

[Blood Groove]

For the Pewter pins, After you drill the holes in the tang and the handle. Use a counter sink on the handles on both sides,Clamp all togeather down on a hard surface, Pour the melted pewter in the holes, Let cool and sand smooth>

I think that's what we did exactly. But there wasn't a good clean hole between the wood and metal in the middle and we didn't get a good connection there.

[Runs With Beer]

It has to go all the way through to hold solid.

[Blood Groove]

YEah, but I've used glue and epoxy to help. I wish that teh hole was better drilled, though so I wouldn't have had the problem. But I see at as a lesson learned. I'll make the holes bigger and more clear next time, and possibly make more of them.

[Runs With Beer]

Most often, Three pins on a knife handle is the norm. The holes thru the tang need to be at least 3/16. the counter sink in the handle holes A 1/4 counter sink about half way thrn your handle materal. Hope this helps you.

[Blood Groove]

Thanks for the information. I'll remember that with the next knife I make.

[Beo]

I really like your knife Blood Groove, great work i'm kinda jealous.

[Blood Groove]

I really like your knife Blood Groove, great work i'm kinda jealous.

Hey thanks a lot Beowulf, I'm glad that you like it. I can't wait to work on my new designe, although I'm sure it's not going to happen for a while. I have to forge a present for my brother.

[hoosierarcher]

Great Job Blood Groove!

[welderguy]

Great job, good looking knife

[Blood Groove]

Hey thanks! I kind of thought that this thread had died.