View Full Version : Wilderness Psychology
I'm not quite sure if anyone has noticed this, but it would seem that humans are very much like sheep in the way that we tend to group together. We live in large and bustling cities, and we don't like to stick out from others too much. We feel embarrassment when we do from this, and most people tend to cast out the oddities and anomalies. We who live away from others and spend long times on our own may be considered eccentric, though I believe that we have found a new kind of genius. Many past and present geniuses are noted to be different from others, whether it is in the way they act, think, or look. We who practice skills not even known to many could be considered genius.
This being said, i was hoping to get your opinion on whether we are all geniuses, or slightly mentally deranged (due to the fact that some of us stay in isolation for a while). Truthfully, I'm not too much of a psychologist or philosopher, but this was an issue brought up by some friends that i would like to have clarified.
DOGMAN
08-22-2008, 10:31 PM
According to many, "Survival" is an instinct. So, if Survival is an instinct than I guess we are not "geniuses" for doing what merely comes naturally.
Sarge47
08-22-2008, 10:48 PM
Ohhhh Reeeemmmmmyyyyy!:rolleyes:
This is true. but it is not an instinct to practice this. we choose to do this, whereas many people just go about their daily lives. we supplement our knowledge, even though it is not vital to our immediate survival. true it may help us in the future, though i do not think that the instinct of survival makes us prepare. it is an immediate situation reaction, and until that particular moment, we are still guided by our own wills and our own minds.
canid
08-22-2008, 11:38 PM
it is ambition and a sort or assortment of personality trait[s] to desire to learn and practice skills we do not regularly use, and this is true of willderness survival in these days as it has been of innovation and hobby undertakings for all of human existence.
it is no different than the man, concerned much with survival, but driven to try new things to figure out what you could do with that strange bubbly and inebriating liquid that resulted from accidental, or in time deliberate aging of fruit or grain decoctions. it seems general and inherent to the species at large, but is usually quite specific and in no way universal to a given individual.
cultural evolution is interesting and damage is often distinguished from genius only by the practical or artistic value of the result. the way that we as a group seem to come together in a more or less common manifestation of our interest, and the ways that other things, including both the practical applications and the fanciful, would seem to me to demonstrate the complexity of the phenomena, more than explain it. it's no simple business; culture nor the workings of the individual mind.
Sarge47
08-22-2008, 11:51 PM
I'm not quite sure if anyone has noticed this, but it would seem that humans are very much like sheep in the way that we tend to group together. We live in large and bustling cities, and we don't like to stick out from others too much. We feel embarrassment when we do from this, and most people tend to cast out the oddities and anomalies. We who live away from others and spend long times on our own may be considered eccentric, though I believe that we have found a new kind of genius. Many past and present geniuses are noted to be different from others, whether it is in the way they act, think, or look. We who practice skills not even known to many could be considered genius.
This being said, i was hoping to get your opinion on whether we are all geniuses, or slightly mentally deranged (due to the fact that some of us stay in isolation for a while). Truthfully, I'm not too much of a psychologist or philosopher, but this was an issue brought up by some friends that i would like to have clarified.
I find it interesting that you pointed out"sheep". Don't all animals move in packs or herds?:confused:
canid
08-23-2008, 12:01 AM
uhm; that would be a no sarge.
Sarge47
08-23-2008, 12:07 AM
uhm; that would be a no sarge.
There are Herds, Flocks, Gaggles, Schools, Packs, Prides, Etc.. In other words, why link us to "sheep" when it could have just as easy been any other species of animals that live & travel in packs. I find the use of the word "sheep" very revealing.:cool:
Sourdough
08-23-2008, 12:46 AM
Odd this question came up as I have been pondering a slightly different part; and That is the obsessive, and excessive interest some people have in the survival subject.
Given that sooner or later you will fail to survive........It is called death, or end of survival.
And that some of the people who are the most interested in the survival skills, spend very little time if ever in "HARMS WAY", the are just interested in the subject, and not the practice.
As WarEagle is now 14 days into a self inflicted 30 day solo, minimal tools survival ordeal to test himself.
See I understand WarEagle, and I get what he is questing for, but what I don't get at all are those who seldom if ever are out of their safe zone, but are fascinated with the subject of survival, and these are not all just youth.
And to seperate the story they tell them self, from the truth about there obsessive interest in the study of survival skills.
These are excellent points. i thank you for your input. the reason i used sheep was because i just got back from a friends, where we were making slings from wool we sheared ourselves. My mind has been stuck on sheep for a while now, no matter how i try to ignore them.
Sourdough
08-23-2008, 01:06 AM
I believe that isolation leads to "ENLIGHTENMENT", you know there was a time that seekers would go into the wilderness, take nothing, for 40 days and 40 nights, this was common in the time of Christ.
I think that subconsciously we want to escape the distraction and emptiness of the physical world, with it's endless pursuit of more things, and hunger for a oneness and peace with the spiritual world.
Old Sourdough Koan:
Befor enlightenment, split firewood, fetch water.
After enlightenment, split firewood, fetch water.
Man, you guys are way too cerebral for me. You know, it's just possible that people do things because they enjoy doing them and they shy away from other things because they don't enjoy doing those.
Personally, I enjoy surviving. It's part of that whole existential thing, I guess. But it's just, well, fun. I shy away from not surviving because I don't think I would enjoy that.
However, I do like the title genius and you are welcome to use when speaking about me anytime you wish. Super Genius would even be better. Sort of goes along with my Super Moderator title.
Ole WV Coot
08-23-2008, 07:53 AM
Break out the boots, getting deep again. REMY I take back almost everything I ever said. I tried to live up to the genus part and my head hurts.....
Oh Remy, Oh VW, you are being summoned.
Input please.
Remy,
I just enjoy reading what you write.
crashdive123
08-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Remy - not sure if that was Ben was looking for, but I enjoyed your post....thought it was one of your better ones.
um...Sarge...I've never seen a herd of wolverines or a flock of eagles (although they will nest near each other), lynx live alone except when mating, male bears wander away after getting lucky with Momma, (she chases him away when her and cubs come out in springtime) There's plenty more.
Remy, I couldn't agree more on your statement "I believe in clans, not societies" and I thought that was a really well written response.
Sarge47
08-25-2008, 12:17 PM
Not all animals, but more than just sheep!:rolleyes:
good point, You also never see sheep flocking around wolverines :D
Sarge47
08-25-2008, 12:21 PM
These are excellent points. i thank you for your input. the reason i used sheep was because i just got back from a friends, where we were making slings from wool we sheared ourselves. My mind has been stuck on sheep for a while now, no matter how i try to ignore them.
"Baaaaaaa...h"!:rolleyes:
That's because early attempts at making friends were seen as a bit insincere by the sheep.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rrs/lowres/rrsn71l.jpg
BruceZed
08-25-2008, 12:24 PM
"...humans are very much like sheep in the way that we tend to group together."
Lets face it, life is way easier in the wilderness if you work in a cooperative group. All nomadic peoples understood the idea of the extended family working closely together to survive in harsh environments. Yes it is possible to live by ones self, it just easier to work together and breakup the work load.
http://boreal.net/BorealLinks/images/survival-03.jpg
A fire is an excellent example: 1 person alone requires the same waist high parallel fire to survive for one night at -40 degree C as 6 persons in two Shelters using the same waist high fire. Six people cooperating will be required to collect 1/6 of the wood that 1 person will get better, longer sleep by taking sifts minding the fire during the night.
Bruce, the key there is "work as a cooperative group" that, to me, implies, everyone shares in the work load and doesn't need a lot of teaching/training/supervision. Sure, everyone needs that at some point, but the important point is picking up their own share of the work.
I've had some...embittering experiences. :D (Lazy, no good, @#@!!&*!)
I think the Donner Party started out believing that then along the way said the heck with it and decided to do it individually. They worked out a plan where they could just bite off a piece of the problem one bite at a time until they finished it. Seemed to work, too.
teaching/training/supervision
Now there's some words that apply to me. I need lot's of that. That whole "pull your own weight" thing .... well, look. See? I've already started breaking out in a rash.
Evidence that there's truth to the adage "never bite off more than you can chew"
Also...started the nicer habit of never talking with a mouthful.
"Dude, you got some of Aunt June right here. No, stupid. Other side. You need to stop talking with your mouth full. June is busting out all over."
Ha! Double pun!!!! That's a triple score!!!
Ha! Double pun!!!! That's a triple score!!!
We are not worthy, we are not worthy.
Are we genius's, no. But we are following our instincts and what our forefathers did to survive. When not at work I pretty much stay to myself, working on my gear, flinter, and other things. Sure Trooper comes around but he's 16 so he's too cool for that stuff. The wife is a homebody, so most of the time in the woods is either alone or with two or three very trusted companions and we are like minded in the things we do. When out alone for a week or weekend we live mostly off the land and what our flinters can bring in, is this primitive? Maybe, nuts-not really, but being alone in the forests is my thing, doing that I'm not behold'n to anyone else, look after only me, and do things my way. Works for me though its not for everyone. In the group I trek with we work well together because we don't have to say what needs to be done, we just see it, know it, and do it. Like minded people as I said.
Beo,
bulrush
08-29-2008, 09:18 AM
Yeah i am not sure either it is what Ben was looking for, but sometimes conversations are like fishing...a lot of patience and staying still...a lot of throwing lines "out there" and waiting for something to bite.
As the journey can be as interesting as the destination, so can the conversation be as interesting as the answer.
Oommmmmmmm....
And life is the most interesting journey of all... Grasshopper, now if you can snatch this pebble from my hand....
bulrush
09-02-2008, 09:43 AM
I've had some...embittering experiences. :D (Lazy, no good, @#@!!&*!)
One has problems because Person A thinks a certain chore must get done, but Person B disagrees.
"What do you mean we need a 1000 sq ft cabin? It's the middle of summer and we're only here for a week!"
However there are certain chores which most people would agree are always necessary: gathering food, cooking, gathering water.
And there are different ways to do things. Your experience may show that your way is the best way. My experience may show a new, better way to do it.
And as I was in the store this weekend, I was reminded that some people think they only need to bathe every 2 months, whether they need it or not. *cough*
pgvoutdoors
09-03-2008, 08:51 PM
Here's a couple of books I've found interesting on the subject of physiology of survival.
"Surviving the Extremes" by Kenneth Kamler, MD
"Deep Survival" by laurence Gonzales
ArmySurvivalist
09-04-2008, 01:09 PM
I believe that people are locked into whats only around them. People complain and get no where because they are only seeing what effects them in their day. Most people fear change and most fear the outdoors.
I have had soldiers out of basic that wont pee in the " Wood line ", instead they want a full latrine ( Bathroom ) to do it in. The silver spoon age is upon us and the way we raise our children around technology is actually not going to help them. More then likely they will steer clear of helping someone in distress because when they grew up they didnt have to be outside at all. They think life is video games and chips.
God forbid that someone actually has to go camping these days. With the video game age more kids dont know how to help themselves. I had another troop who didnt even know how to make his bed properly.
Sad.
I could rant all day about this. Lemme know if you want more of my 2 cents.
Zach
P.S Survival is inside us and is a instinct. We are the ones who can see the " Big Picture " And we will be the ones called upon to fix the mess that the so called " Sheep " create. People think that we are foolish for preparation and practice, but when your lost in a plane crash I bet you sure wish you had some knowledge !!!!
Afghanistan 04-05 navy seal chinook got shot down and 2 survived, they had to live off the land and hide for 2 days until they were rescued. Survival is about the will to live and not give up and die.
LOL OK OK IM GOING IM GOING
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