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View Full Version : Do You Get Lost or Do You Have a Mental Compass?



Rick
06-14-2008, 08:13 PM
You all know them. They can walk through the thickest forest in the middle of a moonless night and come out within 4 inches of where they pointed to on the map. Or they pitch one eye to the sky, get a bearing on the sun, and walk right back to the truck 8 miles away.

There there are those other poor souls that get lost getting out of the cab and trying to find the bed of the truck. If they turn half way around they have to check a compass to find the edge of the road.

So, what about you? Do you tend to get lost or do you have a mental compass?

crashdive123
06-14-2008, 08:21 PM
I do fairly well at determining direction, but when I wander off into the woods fairly well isn't good enough for me. That's why I carry a mechanical compass to compliment the mental one.

Sam Reeves
06-14-2008, 08:29 PM
I've broke my mental compass or something. I am very observant so I do fine during the day but after it gets dark on a cloudy night I have to follow the dog and hope he wants to go straight home...

Flavor Bear
06-14-2008, 08:40 PM
I have a pretty good mental compass, but that's not to say I would ever go out into the bush without an actual compass.

rebel
06-14-2008, 09:19 PM
It's weird. My wife just sits in amazement. I don't know but, it feels like a faint tug to go in the direction of intended travel. Give it a try w/a back up of course. Relax and see where it takes you.

How 'bout those internal alarm clocks? Does anyone else get up when they want w/o the alarm?

awfoxden
06-14-2008, 10:03 PM
while i do cary at least 1 compas when in the woods i have never had the need. i'v always seemed to know which direction i need to go. however if i did become lost i think it would shake me a bit harder than some because i would have to deal with imediate self dout since never being in that situation. ive talked with several old hands in the woods that have hunted the same area for their whole lives and one day they got disorented and they all say to a one that is was one of the most scary times of their lives and then they get somewhere or see something they know and its like focusing a camara and they know exactly where they are and how to get out.

dragonjimm
06-14-2008, 10:26 PM
@rick...yep thats me maybe not with in 4 inches but less than a hundred yards....and i'm a little better in the dark :p cause there is less distractions
my military instructors hated it.

Pict
06-14-2008, 10:26 PM
I have a strong sense of direction but I thnk it is a major mistake to depend on it.

START NAVIGATING RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING

The goal is to never be lost. I've been lost enough times to see a pattern. Getting lost starts with knowing exactly where you are and sticking with that idea until the landscape warps and slaps you senseless with a stream where there should be a road or a dry valley where there should be a stream. The fact is you have been lost for a while just didn't realize it.

The times I have gotten lost are all in limited visibility, night, dense brush especially in flat ground, and FOG. Fog is a killer because you can be motoring along and suddenly it turns into a whiteout and since you knew where you were all day in the clear you haven't been paying close enough attention to directions and recognizable landmarks. OK now find your way back, how far did you walk? What time was it that you left, how long did that break take, which direction?

I would rather be with someone who can't find the mensroom in a restaurant but navigates consistently than someone who always knows right where they are but has poor map and compass skills or doesn't take navigation seriously enough to do it. It takes discipline to navigate when it "isn't necessary".

Getting lost is like having an accidental discharge with a firearm. If you say you've never had an AD I'd say you probably haven't lived your entire life with firearms. AD's are the reason you always handle a gun like it's loaded. If you say you've never been lost, get out in the bush more, it will happen. Navigating from the beginning is the only sure remedy. Mac

dragonjimm
06-14-2008, 10:29 PM
thats timing:D

rebel
06-14-2008, 10:57 PM
I have a strong sense of direction but I thnk it is a major mistake to depend on it.

START NAVIGATING RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING

The goal is to never be lost. I've been lost enough times to see a pattern. Getting lost starts with knowing exactly where you are and sticking with that idea until the landscape warps and slaps you senseless with a stream where there should be a road or a dry valley where there should be a stream. The fact is you have been lost for a while just didn't realize it.

The times I have gotten lost are all in limited visibility, night, dense brush especially in flat ground, and FOG. Fog is a killer because you can be motoring along and suddenly it turns into a whiteout and since you knew where you were all day in the clear you haven't been paying close enough attention to directions and recognizable landmarks. OK now find your way back, how far did you walk? What time was it that you left, how long did that break take, which direction?

I would rather be with someone who can't find the mensroom in a restaurant but navigates consistently than someone who always knows right where they are but has poor map and compass skills or doesn't take navigation seriously enough to do it. It takes discipline to navigate when it "isn't necessary".

Getting lost is like having an accidental discharge with a firearm. If you say you've never had an AD I'd say you probably haven't lived your entire life with firearms. AD's are the reason you always handle a gun like it's loaded. If you say you've never been lost, get out in the bush more, it will happen. Navigating from the beginning is the only sure remedy. Mac

So true. Navigate from the start.

Ole WV Coot
06-14-2008, 11:24 PM
I have never been lost, confused for a couple of hours but never lost. I never knew anyone that used a compass or even had one growing up in Eastern KY in the 50s. I can't recall anyone ever getting lost or if they did admitting it. I had a little problem in the Northern Maine woods when I was a teen because everything looked the same. In this part of the country I ran the woods from daylight til dark, barefoot and just a pair of shorts on. (NO loincloth BTW). In a strange place we learned to look back and remember landmarks. Kinda like auto pilot, we were born with it.

klkak
06-15-2008, 03:42 AM
I always carry a compass, GPS and local map when in the bush. I rarely ever use either unless I am covering many miles out on the tundra in which case I navigate from the start.

When running the trap line in PWS we always use the GPS. It is winter, nasty weather and dark most of the time. We can't afford to make any mistakes.

Rick
06-15-2008, 05:17 AM
Interesting split so far. I would never advocate entering the wild without proper safety equipment: compass(es), signal device(s), etc. but it is amazing to me that many of us have a sort of built in sense of direction. There is nothing truly remarkable about that I suppose. Bees, wasps, ants, birds and other mammals do it all the time. Any life form that forages and has to return to a fixed home (anthill for example) has to have the ability. Still, I find it curious that we have that capability.

I think there is something genetic about it as well. I've noticed that those who get lost easily also have difficulty reading a map and often get turned around just stepping off an elevator or waking up in the woods the next morning. It's just enough of a change that throws them off.

Rebel also asked a very good question about internal clocks. I'll start a poll on that. I would bet that those who have a good sense of direction also have a good internal clock. So, let's see!

Pict
06-15-2008, 06:37 AM
Moving to South America totally screwed up my internal compass. In the northern hemisphere the sun rises in the east and sets in the west but travels through the southern sky. Here it also rises in the east and sets in the west but travels through the northern sky. This has the effect of flipping your internal compass 180 degrees as all the shadows point the wrong way. All those clues your brain is picking up on for orientation are just wrong.

I find this doesn't bother people who have no real sense of direction anyway but the better you are at "just knowing" where you are the worse the impact of reversing everything. Mac

nell67
06-15-2008, 06:58 AM
Compass?? Whats a compass?

Pict
06-15-2008, 07:42 AM
Compass?? Whats a compass?

They help you draw a nice round circle. Its a navigation aid that allows you to draw a map of your wanderings. Mac

wareagle69
06-15-2008, 07:47 AM
well heres one of my pet peeves sense of direction or internal compass, baloney as my land nav instructors would say (not really but this is a family site) if you have these qualities then i could blind fold you take you out in the middle of the bush , desert jungle what have you and spin you around a dozen times and then let you lead me back to the starting point w/o a map and compass.

now that being said as pict said if youstart when you enter the enviroment and some guys can use natural navigation to always beaware of where they are but then i just say they are more in tune with things have better observational powers

my instructor allan beauchamp has written an excellent article about natural navigation look him up either google his name or go to wildsurvive.com and go to bow's bushcraft he no longer participates in forums but his articles have been well documented and worth the look for anyone intereseted in the outdoors

Rick
06-15-2008, 12:13 PM
I can't disagree with that. Of course, if you did the same thing to someone and handed them a map how would they know which way to go? If you have no clue as to the starting point how can you know where the end point is supposed to be? Am I missing something?

nell67
06-15-2008, 01:02 PM
They help you draw a nice round circle. Its a navigation aid that allows you to draw a map of your wanderings. Mac

LOL!:D Thanks Mac!

Leon
06-15-2008, 02:49 PM
If i have been somewhere before i never get lost but if its a new area it depends on one thing - is this the wilderness or city? For some reason i can navigate wilderness a lot easier than a city. I think its because with London i just know certain specific areas and im limited to the roadways and pathways etc.

If im in the woods, like the new forest, then i have a 360 degree field of movement and i can also make use of audio landmarks like a nearby river, or even a far off road. I took my wife camping in the new forest and i was quite fond of wandering off without a map to get to where i wanted to go, it may sound silly but England is a small country and the new forest does not have the risks that dartmoor has. My wife was rather surprised that i got to exactly where i wanted to be and made our way back, partly because her sense of direction is terrible. Denser forest particularly mountainous or hilly areas would be more risky as of course field of vision is reduced along with mobility but i judged the new forest as risk free for myself to wander off care free.

flandersander
06-15-2008, 04:38 PM
I can point north in any time and get it right, weather I am guessing or not, nobody knows.




How 'bout those internal alarm clocks? Does anyone else get up when they want w/o the alarm?

Almost everyday I wake up, sit up then the alarm goes off. And I can be working all day, suddenly stop working and count down from ten and hit the break buzzer. Well not always but I am always within a few seconds.

Ole WV Coot
06-15-2008, 07:15 PM
Getting lost is like having an accidental discharge with a firearm. If you say you've never had an AD I'd say you probably haven't lived your entire life with firearms. AD's are the reason you always handle a gun like it's loaded. If you say you've never been lost, get out in the bush more, it will happen. Navigating from the beginning is the only sure remedy. Mac

Guess I am due to get lost and shoot myself in the foot. Been around and had firearms for over 60yrs. Guess I averaged 50 rounds a day over the years. I still run the woods, carry a compass, "GPS" no decent topo maps available for where I roam. The GPS has a large beech tree by a stream that everyone within miles knows marked. I have over 300 acres of private property adjoining East Lynn state park that I can roam. I never go by myself, you may think I'm dumb but I ain't stupid. I am an average displaced Redneck from Eastern KY that can probably survive with less because that's what we started with. No offense but in the 1950s we wouldn't see a compass until we were drafted or volunteered.

Sunshine
06-15-2008, 08:13 PM
I get lost all the time. I've taken compass and navigation classes and I still have a hard time when I'm out in the woods. I second-guess myself and get all turned around. It's SO embarrassing!

Rick
06-15-2008, 08:16 PM
No need to be embarrassed. Each of us have strong suits and weak suits. Navigation is just something you have to work on. I'm pretty good at it. It's everything else I have trouble with.:o

wareagle69
06-15-2008, 08:24 PM
I get lost all the time. I've taken compass and navigation classes and I still have a hard time when I'm out in the woods. I second-guess myself and get all turned around. It's SO embarrassing!

look up allan beauchamp andread his bit on natural navigation

Sunshine
06-15-2008, 08:28 PM
Thanks, wareagle69! Navigation is one of those skills I am determined to acquire!

wareagle69
06-15-2008, 08:30 PM
hey no problem and my friends just call me WE

Pict
06-15-2008, 10:26 PM
Here's a short video I did a while back about my back-up compass. I thought it was relevant to the discusson.

Back Up Compass (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VSkm-iGp3w)

Mac

crashdive123
06-16-2008, 06:30 AM
Just like the others, great vid Mac.

Riverrat
06-16-2008, 06:59 AM
I usually can go into the woods, and come out where I want to. I always take a compass as a back up just in case.

Teacher
06-16-2008, 10:48 AM
Some people have a "nack" for staying on course no matter what the situation is. Others I have worked with could not follow the path of bread crumbs across thier own driveway. I feel alot of the "mental compass" is actually just situational awareness for where you are and what you are doing.

Beo
06-16-2008, 11:06 AM
WE I totally agree with what you said and understand it (must be a Ranger thang), its not about always knowing where you are and finding your way home, its about once your lost finding the compass points (no matter how you do it) and then determiming your direction of travel. As WE said if you are blind folded and then flown to say Saudi in the middle of the desert, or to the center of Canada's deep forests and dropped off, not having a map or compass the best one could hope for would be finding the compass points and getting their sense of direction, you will know which way is north,s,e,w but would not know where you were.
That said I have a "real good sense of direction" meaning I can find the compass points in either day or night, does not mean I know where I am at. The I have to pick a direction and head out.

Rick
06-16-2008, 11:09 AM
Mac - Another great vid.

There is, however, one instance that I can think of when both compasses could be wrong and that is when you are in proximity to a loadstone or magnetite. I know you were in a kneeling position in the vid for the sake of the camera but in that position a compass could be influenced by a loadstone near or at the surface.

For those that don't know what a loadstone or magentite is, it's a permanently magnetized form of iron oxide, Fe3O4 to be exact, and it is widely distributed on the planet and quite common.

Since deposits and/or stones are typically not all that large, moving a few feet in any direction and verifying your compass while standing should negate any influence you might encounter.

Just a thought for those rare "what the heck?" moments.

Beo
06-16-2008, 11:15 AM
I always carry my military Lensatic Liquid Filled Military Compass that I was issued in the army and somehow it ended up at my home forever.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9972/compassuf3.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=compassuf3[/COLOR)

DOGMAN
06-17-2008, 12:41 AM
I pay attention to details- on maps before I go to an area, then when I am in that area....the sun, shadows, the wind, the direction trees are growing/leaning, landmarks in the distance, what the clouds are doing etc...so, this makes me have a sense of direction. I rarely ever get lost, or confused about my direction. I stop alot and look around.

Pict
06-17-2008, 07:40 AM
I can't get maps of my area down here. Some of the things I do...

Keep a little book of trail notes at all times. This paper trail records what you did so you don't have to rely on memory alone.

Keep track of time traveled. On each leg of your trip mark down the time it took you, it greatly helps knowing when you have to turn around, not overshooting landmarks etc. Besides distance alone is a poor indicator in rough terrain. You will travel 3-4x faster on a trail than off trail here. If you had to chop through a section or encounter a ravine you have to slow way down. One 100 meter stretch could take you a half hour to cross while the other 3 km stretch was a fifteen minute jog.

Pace counting in low visibility areas such as forest trails. This is very accurate but you need to write down the information in a notebook. In the mountains I stress keeping super accurate records of your movements as the chance of sudden fog is very high and you may need to return via your notes.

Sketch landmarks.

Leave trail markers if you turn off a trail at some point. These need to be visible in low light.

Turn around and look at your back trail so you will know what to expect on the way back especially at anyplace you might have to change direction. A digital camera is pure magic for this.

Record your compass berings in the notebook. This combined with your landmark notes and distance/time travelled with get you home in the dark.

For most people used to wilderness travel you are creating a mental record of these facts and just reverse course and go home. I take people out who have never left the pavement and so I force them to use the discipline of writing things down in order to Keep it all straight. By making a "patrol map" of the area that records pertinent information they tend to stay on track long enough to start doing it all by habit. Mac

Rick
06-17-2008, 07:57 AM
Mac - You sure can get maps there! Use Google Earth. It's the berries. I looked over Brazil and you don't get the detail in lower altitude that we get in the U.S. but you can use it as a quasi topo type map and it will still provide you with prominent land features.

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yellowcab
01-08-2026, 03:09 PM
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knockonatom (http://knockonatom.ru)knowledgestate (http://knowledgestate.ru)kondoferromagnet (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)labeledgraph (http://labeledgraph.ru)laborracket (http://laborracket.ru)labourearnings (http://labourearnings.ru)labourleasing (http://labourleasing.ru)laburnumtree (http://laburnumtree.ru)lacingcourse (http://lacingcourse.ru)lacrimalpoint (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)lactogenicfactor (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)lacunarycoefficient (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)ladletreatediron (http://ladletreatediron.ru)laggingload (http://laggingload.ru)laissezaller (http://laissezaller.ru)
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yellowcab
01-08-2026, 03:10 PM
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manualchoke (http://manualchoke.ru)medinfobooks (http://medinfobooks.ru)mp3lists (http://mp3lists.ru)nameresolution (http://nameresolution.ru)naphtheneseries (http://naphtheneseries.ru)narrowmouthed (http://narrowmouthed.ru)nationalcensus (http://nationalcensus.ru)naturalfunctor (http://naturalfunctor.ru)navelseed (http://navelseed.ru)neatplaster (http://neatplaster.ru)necroticcaries (http://necroticcaries.ru)negativefibration (http://negativefibration.ru)neighbouringrights (http://neighbouringrights.ru)objectmodule (http://objectmodule.ru)observationballoon (http://observationballoon.ru)
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