Your opinion appreciated

[BENESSE]

Do you have a hybrid vehicle and would you ever consider getting one?

After 32 years in NYC and not having owned a car, we are contemplating a move (praying with fingers crossed) to a "normal" state down east where we'll have to have a vehicle to get anywhere. Yay!

With the gas scare at the pumps recently I thought that having a hybrid (like Jeep) might make sense. The electric part only fulfilling the need to be better prepared with a plan B of sorts.

It's one thing to read about it but I'd also like to hear from like-minded friends whose advice I've always found useful.

[chiggersngrits]

Right now I only have one vehicle. I have thought about getting a used Chevy Volt. About 2 months ago they were dirt cheap, haven't looked lately. Whats holding me back is I am not sure about lifespan of the battery packs and the REAL cost of replacing them.

[Rick]

I don't own one and never have. Like Chiggers, my concern is the overall life and the cost of replacement. If you plan to trade vehicles every few years or lease vehicles then the issues would be mute. I buy my vehicles, take care of them and tend to drive them longer so I think those are valid concerns for me. I would think you need to decide whether you want to 1. buy or lease. 2. If you purchase, how long do you want to own the car? Not having owned a car, how adept are you and your husband at car maintenance? I see videos all the time of people that pour coolant in where the oil goes, never change the oil and the list goes on. Knowing when to perform simple, periodic maintenance, even if you have someone else perform it, is critical to the longevity of a vehicle. Yes, it's in the owner's manual but like all owner's manuals people seldom read them. :cool:

[crashdive123]

I don't own one either. My go to vehicle for the past 30 years has been a pickup truck. My latest (2019 F150) gets 20 MPG around town and about 25 or more on the highway. With a 36 gallon tank I don't have to fill up that often and on trips it is wonderful. My issue with hybrids is capacity (I'm retired and planning lots of road trips) and longevity. Batteries are super expensive to replace. My last couple of trucks had well over 200K miles on them. Also, the convenience of having a truck with an 8 foot bed is super convenient for "stuff" that needs to get done.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I've only known one person who owned a hybrid and I didn't like the SOB, so I don't know anything about his car, but I probably wouldn't like it either. He had a Ford Escape and he deserved it.

I wouldn't have one. If I was just going to drive a car for road trips and NEVER have to haul anything more than a couple of grocery bags, I would (will) get another Lexus RX350. Perfect size, moderately priced Lexus, and absolutely reliable. You're going to spend some money up front, but relatively little after that. Ours is 9 years old, 80K miles and zero problems. I have the oil changed regularly and gas it up. She drives it, that's all. Also, customer service at the dealership is phenomenal...

Alan

[Rick]

It's not SOB, Alan, it's SAAB. It stands for Swedish Autos Are Best...I think. Either that or I just made that up.

[aflineman]

A few folks here at work have electric or electric hybrids. Most like them. The Prius is sorta kinda not easy to change cells on. It can be done, but not cheap or easy. Range on pure electric is not there for my weekly commute. And a hybrid just does not make economic sense for me. I need at least an SUV for my commute, and I buy used. A used hybrid would need to be really cheap before I would buy one. Just to much maintenance after about 140K miles.

[madmax]

I've never owned a hybrid. But I know a pickup with some grunt to it will always be in my driveway.

[BENESSE]

We were entertaining the idea of leasing a Jeep hybrid for 3 years by which time we'll know if we like it without committing to a purchase. In 3 years the technology will definitely improve as "Jeep" claims to have something already in the works that's supposed to wow us. (we'll see)

2021 Jeep guarantees their battery for 100K miles and I suspect new batteries cost several Ks. We've never leased before but have friends who do and are believers in doing it that way. We've rented many different types of cars throughout the years (in the US and abroad) for extended trips and are pretty adept at basic maintenance and care.

Mr. B grew up with a dad who made them all keep a log of recording the odometer every time they filled the car with gas in order to keep track of the mileage. He even went as far as writing down where he bought the gas so if there was ever a problem he wouldn't go back. And of course every little service was recorded as well. Mr. B tried to introduce the practice with our own vehicles after we were married and pre-NYC but the idea never got any traction with me. (a bit too anal in my book)

I don't think I'd want an electric vehicle as our one and only ride because I can see all sorts of problems with that scenario, grid-down for starters. I am also biased in favor of owning an American made car that's also an American brand.

[Rick]

Negotiate that lease just like you are purchasing that car. It can save you thousands. Read, read and read some more. Be a smart shopper when you walk into that lease. A low lease may mean a big down payment. Weigh whether it's best for you to pay down (generally no more than 2k) or roll the charges into the monthly lease. Make certain you look into gap insurance. Be realistic about how many miles you'll put on that leased car. Make certain you maintain it...inside and out. Make certain your lease is equal to or less than the warranty period on the vehicle. Those are some thoughts off the top of my head.

[BENESSE]

Thank you Rick, that's invaluable info. That's one thing we don't really know much about.

[crashdive123]

Another thing to consider about leasing is the projected value of the car at the end of the lease. If it is less than what is owed, you will have to pay the difference. As Rick said - be realistic about the mileage. Do your homework about where you are moving. For example, the city I live in is the largest (over 800 square miles) in the Continental US so driving across town has a much different meaning than many other places.

[Batch]

You have to factor in the cost of adding a charging station. If you want a rapid charging station it uses 80 amps of service. Which might require a service upgrade in a lot of homes.

I have driven nothing but trucks for a long time. I put 250,000 miles on my last f-150 with out any major mechanical problems at all. That truck is still a daily driver for a friend of mine and I sold it to him 5 years ago. He hasn't done anything to the truck!

There are a lot of tempting EVs coming out. But, I think I would only own either hybrid or electric as a second car.

[Rick]

oooh. Charging station. Good point!

[Phaedrus]

I think they're getting close to being ready for prime time. I bought a 2021 Subaru this year and a couple months later they announced a new electric. But I live in Montana where distances between things is great and battery performance really drops off in the cold. If I could afford a 2nd vehivle I'd opt for electric just for the performance. No ICE street legal car at any price can beat an electric thru the 1320.:eek2::dissolve:

[BENESSE]

Thank you all! Glad I asked because I wouldn't have thought of half the stuff you guys mentioned.
Lots to consider, lots to learn.

In the meantime, say a prayer for us that our apt. sale goes through in the next few weeks so we can finally leave the city and start a new "normal" life in a "normal" state down south where we actually moved from 32 years ago. Time to get back home.

[crashdive123]

Hope it all works out and that you can enjoy some freedom and breathe free air. If it does, we need to get together for a cup of coffee, beer or bourbon (or all three).

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I would never lease a vehicle.

Other opinions may vary.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Glad you're coming back down south.

Alan

[BENESSE]

Hope it all works out and that you can enjoy some freedom and breathe free air. If it does, we need to get together for a cup of coffee, beer or bourbon (or all three).

I would look forward to it!

[BENESSE]

I would never lease a vehicle.

Alan

Alan, why not?

[crashdive123]

Alan, why not?

Here are some interesting points to consider. I will not lease a vehicle either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/10lfdo/why_leasing_a_car_is_usually_a_bad_idea_except/

https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-you-should-never-lease-a-car

https://www.moneycrashers.com/seven-reasons-why-leasing-a-car-is-a-bad-deal/

[BENESSE]

Here are some interesting points to consider. I will not lease a vehicle either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/10lfdo/why_leasing_a_car_is_usually_a_bad_idea_except/

https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-you-should-never-lease-a-car

https://www.moneycrashers.com/seven-reasons-why-leasing-a-car-is-a-bad-deal/

Thanks Crash, so helpful.

We know now that we won't be getting a hybrid but will wait a few years for the technology to get even better. And we'll rent an SUV for a month before we really decide on buying vs leasing. After NYC (and selling our place), we are particularly commitment shy when it comes to large purchases which is why leasing even entered our minds. Otherwise we are not "lease type people".

[aflineman]

Good used vehicles can save you some serious cash. Make sure you have it inspected by a neutral experienced mechanic. Also, do some research on the model. For example. I bought a 2007 Rav4 Limited AWD with a 4 cylinder. Good car, but a little more research would have told me to get one a couple of years earlier (06-07 have a recall for using to much oil). Also would have told me to get a V6 for my type of driving (better mileage). CarFax is a good resource for info on ownership and maintenance.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

First and foremost, Car dealers are not going to do you any favors. They are in business to make money and they have thought about how you spend it a lot more than you have thought about how you spend it.

Second, Leasing a car is like leasing a house except that the dealer is going to want the vehicle back in pristine condition or they will devalue it for every scratch or stain on the carpet. To buy the car at the end of the lease is like buying it twice.

Lastly, When I pay for something I want it to be mine to keep, sell or give away.

When buying a vehicle, I have cash. After the talk and test drive I get out my checkbook. I've already looked up the vehicle in KBB (if used) and I knock 10% off of that. If new I go AT LEAST 10% below the sticker. Then I write a check. I give it to the salesman and tell them that that is my out-the-door price. Take it show it to your sales manager and come back with an answer in ten min or less. Longer than ten min, I'll stop payment on the check on the way out the door and I won't be back. Bring me my check back with anything but a "Yes" answer and I'll walk.

Never fails. One time when #1 wife was buying by my method we made it to the edge of the parking lot and her phone rang. They had a change of heart. She was scared up to that point and then got cocky. "I'm going to look at some other vehicles, I might be back". We had lunch and went back. She got her car for what she wanted to pay for it.

The key to this is to not blink. Get up thank them for their time and start walking. Most of the time you won't touch the door. If they let you leave then you didn't want to do business with them anyway.

10% is still over "cost" and is certainly over actual cost with rebates, discounts etc on new vehicles. Dealers buy used cars for wholesale which is next to nothing. They are going to make more money on a used car sale than a new one.

When they try to take you over to the closer, he's going to make you feel like you are putting your children in danger if you don't buy an extended warranty. Do what you want, but if he'll include it in the amount you've already written the check for, fine, slap it on there. He won't, and only once in my life have I actually used an extended warranty. Last Chevy I ever bought 1985.

Now I realize that most folks don't walk around with $40K in their pockets to buy cars with. Well, I don't either. But I drove a T100 that I paid on time for 20 years while I was waiting to have enough cash to do it. By saving the cash you will save easily $10K that you would have given to the finance company.

If you buy it on time then make sure you can pay on the principal to reduce the debt and pay less interest. Then double up on your payments every chance you get.

I've driven Toyotas since 1997 but for a three year Ford foray and #1 wife's Lexus (which is essentially a super Toyota) (Oh, Lexus dealers don't care if you walk). She had a 08 4Runner The one she bought above) which she gave to a DIL and it is still running fine.

Now, I didn't always do things like this. Which is, in large part, why I do them like that now....

I don't try to gip the sales guy. I used to be him (which is also why I don't do that any more). He's not making much on the sale but with me he's not working very much either. I also know that most people don't go car buying for fun. It's a chore, particularly talking to a hungry salesperson. Pick the car you want ahead of time, view the options and strike. Then they have ten min to keep you from going to the next dealership.

I also go for the plain jane models. Electrical stuff breaks and YOU can't fix it. Neither can I.

Trade-in. KBB is free online. Educate yourself on what your trade is worth. Private sale is the best you can get. Trade in value is a good estimate and wholesale is rock bottom. KBB will walk you through it. Know this going in. Remember they do this stuff for a living, you don't. If you engage them in a negotiating battle, THEY will win.

Stick with your trade + $$$ = 10% less than sticker. Easy peasy.

The best time to buy a new car is in January. If they have any of the previous year models on the lot they will WANT to sell them and fast. So remember that when you are doing the math. Don't hesitate to pull out your phone and use the calculator, or look up the value one more time. They will.

At every opportunity ask them about themselves, what kind of car they drive, what they do for hobbies, married, children, etc... The answers are important, but less important than having them control the whole conversation. While they are telling you about soccer practice, ask how the radio works....

When you spring the ten min rule on them, don't blink.

Hope this helps.

Alan

[Rick]

My wife and I went in to buy a new car. The salesman called the sales manager on the phone then laid the receiver down and walked back to the sales manager's office. Didn't hang up, just laid the receiver down so they could listen to our conversation. I pointed to the receiver for my wife's benefit and the conversation was not what the dealership wanted to hear. It was actually pretty funny. It really backfired on them. I told my wife, that's my price, they can take it or leave it and if that salesman isn't back here in 30 seconds we're gone. "POOF" the salesman magically appeared. Yeah, they will play all sorts of tricks on you.

[crashdive123]

Many years ago I wanted to buy Mrs. Crash a new car. Did my homework, had a price, went to a dealer I had used before. New salesman kept playing games even though I had check book in hand and was prepared to write a check for the car. Finally, I asked if I could borrow his phone. He handed it to me. I called the dealership on the other side of town, told them what I wanted and asked if they had one on the lot. They did. I said I can be there in an hour and will write you a check for x. He agreed quickly. Said our goodbyes and hung up. Handed the phone back to a bewildered salesman and thanked him for the use of his phone.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

My wife and I went in to buy a new car. The salesman called the sales manager on the phone then laid the receiver down and walked back to the sales manager's office. Didn't hang up, just laid the receiver down so they could listen to our conversation. I pointed to the receiver for my wife's benefit and the conversation was not what the dealership wanted to hear. It was actually pretty funny. It really backfired on them. I told my wife, that's my price, they can take it or leave it and if that salesman isn't back here in 30 seconds we're gone. "POOF" the salesman magically appeared. Yeah, they will play all sorts of tricks on you.

I never had one do that, but it's a neat trick until they get caught. I don't think i'd have bought anything there.

Alan

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Many years ago I wanted to buy Mrs. Crash a new car. Did my homework, had a price, went to a dealer I had used before. New salesman kept playing games even though I had check book in hand and was prepared to write a check for the car. Finally, I asked if I could borrow his phone. He handed it to me. I called the dealership on the other side of town, told them what I wanted and asked if they had one on the lot. They did. I said I can be there in an hour and will write you a check for x. He agreed quickly. Said our goodbyes and hung up. Handed the phone back to a bewildered salesman and thanked him for the use of his phone.

That was one cold-hearted act. Maybe that's why you're so good at dealing with SPAM. SPAM in person or SPAM online is all still ....... SPAM!

Alan

[Rick]

They came out with a four color thing that sat in the showrooms for a while. You pressed a color based on a question that was asked. It was supposed to be a game but it was actually some kind of psychological profile that printed out in some back office. I think Chrysler did that. That was in the 70s I think. I'm sure I came up as a serial killer...or priest. Either one.

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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