Check this out

[rebel]

I bet the response will be "I was afraid".http://m.startribune.com/video-shows-minneapolis-police-officer-shooting-two-dogs-in-north-minneapolis-yard/433481333/

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I have a very big problem with people, anyone, much less a police officer, shooting a dog in its own yard. This has become a recurring theme in the past few years. The police show up, the dog barks and they shoot the dog. There may be SOME few instances where it is remotely justified or necessary, but they are remote and few. The first dog was not being aggressive at all and the officer could have easily back off. The second dog was responding to what had become a threat, someone in his yard shooting dogs.

If they were responding to an alarm going off then how bout knocking on the front door?

There should be NO "go fund me page" for paying for the vet bills. The Officer should have wages garnished until the vet bills and punitive reparations are made. NO, the taxpayers should not be responsible for this officer's inability to perform the job of protecting and serving.

Some years ago the meter reader for the electric company started refusing to read our meter. I got wonderfully rude letters from my electric provider explaining penalties and fines because I had a vicious dog in my back yard that was preventing the meter reader form doing his job. Despite visits to my home from his supervisors who were able to walk unmolested into the yard to read the meter they still insisted that the dog was vicious. Turns out that the meter reader had sprayed the dog with mace and the dog remembered him for it. I told them to put a radio read meter on my house and I would pay for it because I certainly did not want anyone who would spray my dog with mace on my property and that THAT particular meter reader was barred from entering my property ever again for any reason. It took them six months to install it. One time after that he got out of his truck and started up toward the house with his mace out. He didn't know I was at home and saw him. I walked out of the garage and told him that he needed to leave and that if one drop of mace came out of his can I would use the whole thing on him. He left and I never saw him again after my call to his supervisor.

People have dogs for lots or reasons. None of them are for target practice by police or to be tormented by meter readers.

Alan

[rebel]

I like my dogs a lot. Maybe too much.

[hunter63]

That is upsetting to me as well....
I'l not say what I really think......as it would look like

"That d*** s*** of a ****** should be ****** fired,.... chicken **** az***** as well ******* work off the bill in an animal shelter. F****** D*** H***.

[kyratshooter]

Two wounded dogs?

That's what happens when you use a 9mm! Should have had a .40.

21 foot rule for humans with knives and pit bulls.

In my area you can be charged for assault with a deadly weapon for damage done by a pit bull. They are considered a weapon just like a firearm.

It appears that the dogs were turned lose on the officer after he entered the back yard. He stands for some time before the dogs appear and he draws his gun.

Sorry fellas, but I will kill a dog in a heartbeat if it is a threat to me, family or chickens.

The other factor? Watch some of the "on the spot" cop shows. Suspects will routinely risk being shot, tazed, maced and injured to escape the human officers but they will surrender almost immediately when the dog is turned lose. For most people aversion and protection is a reflex.

Add to that the possibility that this officer is a combat vet and has been trained to eliminate the dogs immediately when entering compounds in Iraq or Afghanistan. He may simply be responding to prior training, suffering a flashback or having one of the "anxiety attacks" experienced by the owner of these dogs sons.

Seems to me a Jack Russel or poodle would serve just as well as a "service dog" and be less of an obvious ghetto threat. And note that the reporter referred to these dogs as "Staffordshire terriers" rather than their common name, "pit bulls". "Service dogs" my @$$.

I have to go with the cop on this one.

[WolfVanZandt]

Nah. The first dog had a nonaggressive stance. He looked friendly. I, frankly, don't believe what I read on the Web, but if it was true, these were licensed emotional support animals. They were professional dogs.

Also, "pit bull" is an unfortunate name for these animals. Their emotional constitution makes them easy to train as pit animals but they aren't necessarily vicious unless they're trained to be. I've known some very cool pit bulls that were friendly animals until the day they died. Assuming that an animal is vicious because of their breed is much akin to racial profiling.

Unless the video was touched up, the officer didn't have to shoot those two.

But, saying that, my father was cynophobic and, being an insurance salesperson for a while, he wouldn't go into a yard with a dog. I could easily see him shooting dogs if he were a policeman. Also, dogs and nonhuman animals that have long been considered, as with Descartes' thought, no more than machines. Since we've started questioning that in the last century, it turns out that the assumption is just plain false. "Aw, it was just a dog," just doesn't cut it anymore.

As much as I sound down on the Internet, this is one place that it actually shines. The Constitution promises us a jury of our peers. Here we have a jury of peers and, maybe, in spades. As a sociologist, I'm very interested in the way this plays out. There have already been several cases of people in authority being caught misusing their authority on YouTube and the fallout forced the organizations in question to do something about it. We're a litigious society. I wonder if touched-up online videos will give suit chasers a weapon against society. Interesting, but dangerous.

[rebel]

It can be a polarizing subject on multiple levels.

[Rick]

Sorry guys. If I'm doing my job and I'm faced with two dogs that I think might do me harm. Your yard, anyone's yard. Yeah, they ain't gonna wind up wounded. Sorry. I'm going home. One of the nastiest little beggars I ever ran into in someone's home was a blasted chihuahua with a Napoleon complex. One of the funniest was a German Shepherd and Goat tag team. Those two would get you every time.

[WolfVanZandt]

One of my House brother's past dogs - an indoor German shepherd was vicious until he was shown by a member of the house that yu belonged there - then he ran and got his laser pointed and whined piteously until you played laser tag with him. When you stopped, he was sad but he would go bother someone else. He was OCD.

[madmax]

2 people that we've met can give Max a command and actually get a response besides my wife and I. Crash (who can actually manhandle him and not have blood drawn) and kyratshooter (who had heelers and I guess just speaks the language). Max is actually toddler approved and visits assisted living facilities. But he won't just obey anybody.

I wouldn't sic Max on a human. His job is to alert me. My job is to assess the threat.

I'd be really pissed off if someone hurt my dog. REALLY pissed 9ff.

[rebel]

I've got two German shepherds. Both are sweethearts. They just turned 3 yo. I've been training them as therapy dogs and we go to assisted living. They would give their lives to me and me to them. They're like my children.

[hunter63]

I know pit bulls get a bad rap.....for good reason as far as I can tell......
Still think this was gross overreaction.

Have done my share of service work both inside and out.....those little furry, yappy, dogs were the only one I ever had a problem with.

[WolfVanZandt]

A very good read about the relationships between humans and dogs (and lots of other animals) is Temple Grandin's and Catherine Johnson's Animals in Translation. They point out that dogs really are humanity's best friends. Not only do they fit a very distinctive niche in the regular lives of most human's today but its very likely that humanity and wolves/dogs grew up together and are what they are because of each other. Wolves probably taught humans how to survive and became the dogs of today. Dogs and humans literally belong together.

Given that, it bothers me that we think that we are justified in doing whatever we want with them - but then, we sorta think we are justified in doing whatever we want with each other.

:P

[Batch]

This cop scaled a 7' fence to get in the back yard. While responding to an audible alarm that had been deactivated.

I have had false alarms at work. They circle the perimeter and look for signs of a break in. They don't kick in the door or jump the fence.

We had a friend who bought the house next door to his mother. He later had an alarm installed. The mother went next door to her son's house to do his laundry. She forgot the new alarm and was outside when the police arrived. She told the police what had happened. One of the officers climbed the back fence and the dog came over to the fence. While still perched on the fence the officer shot the dog despite the mother saying she could go and get the dog.

Kyrat, your dislike for amounts to muts anyway. They are just mixes of English Bulldogs that have been bred with different other breeds of dogs. I have a approximately 90lb red nose. And the best you could hope for is her to drown you in slobbers most of the time. But, when my other dog Gator gets excited she gets his back. Gator has never gone after anybody or any dog. Even when they have run at him. But, in his fenced in back yard and when he is in his house he barks and puffs up. Your asserting that a Jack Russel or Poodle would have been treated any different?

This cop, like so many do, over stepped his authority and violated the rights of the homeowner. The cops lawyers will try to say the cop had the legal authority. Because , admitting that this dumb arse was over stepping his authority opens then up to even bigger law suits. Which us tax payers have to pay anyway!

And Kyrat, the cop had his weapon drawn from the beginning of the video. He has it in his right hand the entire video. He is trying for a low ready. But, can't bring himself from maintaining a safe muzzle discipline because he is concerned for his own safety above those he is sworn to protect.

And you can't honestly be saying that an officer treating the suburbs like a war zone is ok? Or an armed first responder suffering flashbacks or severe anxiety should be on the job? Are you?

[edr730]

Pitbulls discribed as terriers? The approaching dog was 6-7 feet away but claimed to be 10? They were very special prescribed dogs for the woman's "sons" for anxiety but the daughter called one of the dogs "her dog". Yes, the article was biased.
On the other hand, 100% of burgulars would have known those dogs were inside that fence or had been, but the officer did not? The video indicates that he knew the dogs were going to be there. And why is it that a private company can deactivate the emergency in 4 minutes and government workers can not do it even after 16? Was animal control called as the officers indicated? Why wouldn't an officer carry mace if dogs are a major threat?
The first dog approaches, looks around, puts his nose on the ground wagging his tail, never locks eyes with the officer and in general acts like a clueless non aggressive pup. The language of that dog showed he was of no consequence or threat.
I'd be embarrassed to have a video proving that I was that scared of a clueless wagging tailed dog.

[Rick]

Batch, that's why I'm not a cop. I'd do the same thing. I'm smart enough to know that I'd do the same thing. Some guys are looking for a job and like every other place on the planet wind up with folks that maybe shouldn't be in the job. But don't blame a guy that's worried about going home and scared silly of two dogs he knows nothing about. No one knows what he was thinking or why he went over that fence. Maybe he shouldn't have but he did. He wound up facing two dogs that have pretty menacing reputations. I know I would have done the same thing. I know I would have. I was out walking one day and a large boxer came running across a yard barking his head off and came out 1/4 of the way into the road. I drew my weapon with every intent of shooting the dog. If the dog had made mid road I would have killed it. The owner came outside and called it and he wagged his stuggy little tail like he was a six month old puppy and went running off like nothing had happened. Probably a great dog but I didn't know that. That dog was about 3-4 feet from death.

[WolfVanZandt]

Phobias aren't good things to let stay around.

I used to work with a woman who was driving down an Alabama road one night when her car lights caught a snake in the middle of the road. She was so shook up that she spun the car around and ended up speeding the other direction on the wrong side of the road. She said that she had heard that, if you run over a snake, it will flip up under your car and wait for you to get out so it can bite you.

I told her earnestly that she needed therapy.

Phobias are great explanations - they're not excuses. You're probably right, Rick. A man that's going to be afraid of things that he /will/ be running into often to the point that his first instinct is to shoot, should not be on the police force. But that's really where the period should go. A lot of these dead kids that have been shot by police could probably be explained using the same logic.

In my blog on Peoplewatching, I recommend that people who will be dealing with people (two or four legged) on the trail should be students of those people. There are great books out about reading people (Desmond Morris has a whole series that deals with humans, dogs, cats, horses....). Two things study does is help people learn to understand others (nonverbal communication is as important, if not more important, than verbal communication), and it helps people familiarize themselves with others. I'm a strong proponent of the old public service ad "Get to know me - you might like me." Remember Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino?

[kyratshooter]

Before diagnosing treatment for phobic behaviors I believe it might be prudent to release the notion that dogs are people.

The big white rabbit that will not get out of my recliner told me so!

[WolfVanZandt]

Heh, but dogs are people according to all the research that has been done except that nutty thing with the mirror that showed that dogs don't recognize themselves in a mirror. But then, the image in the mirror is not their self and they act pretty much like people from primitive societies who are confronted with a mirror, camera or such. Of course, "people" is just a word and individuals can define it however they want, but if a person is a being with personality (that is, individual ways of responding to the world around them, ability to form bonds with other, ability to feel pain and fear, ability to love and to think out problems) then dogs are most certainly persons. If "person" is defined as "a human", then it loses it's relevance to social commentary. It becomes too bound to be relevant.

Not too long ago (I was still in Selma so it must have been the early 2010s) NPR reported that scientists realized that much of the artifacts like cave paintings and such appeared before homo sapiens entered Europe. That started a war among the anthropologists and archaeologists. Some said, "Well, sapiens were not there yet so it had to be someone else and Neanderthal is the best candidate." The others said, "Since only homo sapiens can be creative, it couldn't have been Neanderthal. It must be that sapiens showed up earlier than we have any rational reason to believe."

Come on. That is flat embarrassing. Scientists are supposed to make their theories fit facts - not the other way around.

To maintain a connection with reality as we know it, it seems to me to be very prudent to assume that dogs are persons unless proved otherwise. If is looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, and it smells like a duck, the logical conclusion is that it's a duck. For all intents a purposes, dogs look and behave like people. Why not consider them people?

Wait! You know Harvey?!

[madmax]

Dogs are not people which is likely why I like them better for the most part...'cent those little yapping ones in a purse.

[madmax]

Dogs are not people which is likely why I like them better for the most part...'cepy those little yappy ones in a purse.

[WolfVanZandt]

LOL.

I once met an elderly lady with one of those yappy dogs. I reached down to pet it while the lady exclamed, "My little dog is very friendly. She would never bite anyone."

You could tell that she had very poor vision. She couldn't see all the blood.

Anyway, maybe ya'll can tell me why you don't think dogs are people, since that has a lot to do with how we should treat them.

[rebel]

Every repairman we've had has said it's the little dogs that'll sneak up and get you. My boys will come at you doing mach 3 then lick you to death.

[Rick]

Everyone that ever told me their dog would never bite were always the ones I kept an eye on.

[rebel]

You can't trust an animal, humans included. Just ask a former bull owner. You don't know what they're thinking. However, the dog in the video wagging his tail was not a threat. Like I said before, it's a polarizing subject. Some think a cop can do no wrong. Others look at the event objectively.

[kyratshooter]

Looking objectively???

Apparently when dogs are involved that is impossible.

[WolfVanZandt]

I dunno. There are some bad dogs just like there are bad humans. I personally believe in capital punishment - not to punish but to prevent the risk or certain people circulating in society. Talk about a polarizing issue!

But I take a personal position there. I'm a psychopath that decided in my early twenties that I would enjoy a life where I helped people get their lives started back up and I've had a great time with it, but if I had decided to go the other direction or, even if I went bad now, my suggestion would be to get me out of everybody elses lives. I know for a fact what a horror I would be.

So a bad dog most certainly should be treated like a bad human, but a good dog deserves to be treated with respect just like a good human does.

K9 cops get an honorable burial when they're killed in the line of duty. I've trained professionals how to act around working dogs. The dogs themselves are professionals and deserve to not be interfered with when they're on duty. Even in the Bible, oxen whose job it was to tread grain was to be treated fairly. Some folks say that that was because God was concerned about the owners, who would suffer if they lost their oxen, but that wouldn't explain Paul equating his ministry to the oxen treading grain. The Bible had quit a lot to say about fairness to animals. I'm not so sure you can be fair or unfair to a nonperson.

[rebel]

One thing is for sure, we're not going to change each other's opinions.

[hunter63]

What?... the interweb is going to change an opinion?...because someone took the time to type something...The horror!...

[WolfVanZandt]

Heh. I like debate - not argument - debate. Debate is how people cooperatively develop opinions on issues that are not cut-and-dried.

There are still logical positivists that believe that, if it can't be represented logically, or potentially proven, it shouldn't even be considered. That was a very short lived movement. Many of the most important questions in life have no cut-and-dried answers. To take the logical positivist's stance, you might as well ditch more than eight tenths of the Dewey Decimal system. There is still plenty of room for philosophy along side science.

There are always three kinds of people on any forum. There are the people who are pro on an issue, people who are con on the issue, and then there are a lot of people who haven't made up their minds yet. If I'm debating, I'm not trying to change the first two groups - I'm really talking to the last group.

[Rick]

I was in and out of people's home every day for about a decade. I could usually read a dog's intend pretty well. You enter into a dog's territory. You are the interloper. It should come as no surprise that the dog might just take offense to you being in their home. If they get the slightest sense from you that you are subordinate then they will let you know real quick who the boss is. That was generally when there was trouble. When the dog wanted me to know where I was on the hierarchy and I wasn't in agreement with his placement. Then I had to ask the owner to put the dog up. Some dogs have a very high opinion of themselves. Not unlike some people.

[WolfVanZandt]

Aye. That was a good tact.

I will usually recognize a dog's primacy in their territory because, well, it's their territory. When I talk to a man or woman with a dog on the trail, I'll usually speak to the dog but no more. After that, I ignore the dog unless it acts like it wants attention (which it usually doesn't). I'll have my conversation with the human and go on my way. If it's just a dog alone and shows aggression, I'll dominate it pretty quickly. Most dogs submit when I growl. I'm a lot bigger.

I think the reason most people that are killed by dogs lose the fight is that they don't know how to deal with the attack but people can fight back with dogs as well as with other humans. It's not that much different. I'll punch a dog out as quickly as I will another human. I'll gouge eyes. If it's more than one - I'll beat one to death with the other. I ignore the bites and claws until the fight's over.

When I hike in the neighborhood, people might think I'm nuts because I talk to all the dogs. It's not that I think they know what I'm saying. I just want them to know my voice because, if one ever gets out of their fenced yard, I want them to know me. Then, if they already know that I'm friendly, we're jake. If they want to fight, they already know I'm not afraid of them and I don't mind doing what I have to do.

I also make sure I understand the other animals I might run into. I'm particularly careful not to startle horses on the trail. They tend to be skittish animals. I give all animals plenty of clearance on the trail. Big cats generally won't approach you as long as you're facing them so I wouldn't show one my back. And I carry bear spray in bear areas.

[rebel]

4 am, another storm and my dog is afraid. He doesn't like the thunder. So, he thinks sitting his 98 pound behind on my head will make it go away.

[crashdive123]

I encounter quite a few dogs in my work. (There's a joke someplace in there about my bar days long, long, long ago - but for another time) Yesterday at one customer (been a customer for 15 years) Bella, their Pit Bull came to greet me. I dropped to my knees and was playing with her for a bit (the owner was there) and I said at least you don't want to eat me like Smokey does. The owner kind of chuckled. Smokey is a trained guard dog. The wife was having some problems with a stalker. Since Smokey arrived the problem seems to have disappeared.

[madmax]

Funny I had a stranger's dog encounter this morning. I was waiting for the elevator at our motel. Too close to the door. It opened and a lady with a 50 lb something or other was standing close to the door on the inside. The dog made eye contact, tail wag but real slow, but it was a little frightened of the unknown man. Talk soft. Back off. No incident. Smiles and good mornings. On our way.

[rebel]

LaQuinta hotels are dog friendly.

[Wildthang]

When I was a kid, and had just got my first apartment, there was an older lady that lived right across the street from my house. She had the biggest pit bull I have ever seen named Baby. The dog was truly a big baby and wouldn't hurt a fly, even though he had never been neutered.
So I was sitting on the front porch one day, and along comes the water meter reader. He went through her gate, opened the lid to the in ground meter, got on his knees and was reaching into the meter well I think to wipe off the little glass window on the meter.
Well Baby came around from the back yard and spotted the meter guy with his face in the meter well. Baby ran over there and mounted that guy, which immediately sent his entire head down into the meter well. Baby had a death grip on this guy and was really working him over if you know what I mean.
I could hear the guys muffled voice screaming help.......help........help, get me out of here! All the while Baby was having the time of his life. I was laying on the porch laughing hysterically, and the lady came out on the porch and she was laughing so hard she could'nt call Baby to get him off of this guy. Baby had him nailed for at least ten minutes before he let go of the guy. By this time the meter guy was scared absolutely to death and he cleared that fence by 2 feet and ran to his truck.
This is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen! Just think, these days poor ole Baby would probably get shot!

[rebel]

Lol. That's a funny story.

[madmax]

About those little dogs...
I was riding my bike around the hood one day and just as I passed this house the owner opened the door and 2 Jack Russells eacaped. Naturally they went after the funny looking animal on 2 wheels. One pooped out quick but the other got a hold of my heel. I never quit pedaling and I didn't think that dog would ever let go. I heard his owner yelling in Spanish at the dog or me(?) But my Spanish sucks and he had 0 English. So as I pedaled along this little zh1t would flop on the ground at the bottom of every pedal stroke. Flop, grrr, flop, grrr, flop, grrr. Until he finally let loose. There were curse words in 2 languages being hollered. No blood. But I watch that house as I go by now. Lol

[crashdive123]

I was inspecting a home for termites one day. I was on my hands and knees under a kitchen table looking at damage to a baseboard. The homeowner was right next to me as I was explaining my findings. While I was pointing to some damage his little Cha Hua Hua dog nipped me on the hand. Without hesitation I backhanded the mutt and he went sliding across the linoleum floor. Thinking I probably just lost a sale, I stood up. The owner said.......I think I would have hit him hard enough to get across the next room. I did get the sale.

[rebel]

My bil/sil had this possessed cat. The dang thing would run up and bite. They had to lock it up anytime someone came over.

[Batch]

Take the dogs and their breed out of the picture.

If you came home and accidentally set off the alarm. You turned off the alarm and called the alarm company and gave them the code word. Then a short while later cops kick in your front door and shoot out your sliding glass door in the back after scaling a 7' locked fence.

They exclaimed that it was for your own good and they were just acting professionally in part of their training. You will have to pay to replace the doors and any other damage that was caused by them.

They know as well as anyone that has ever had an alarm that over 90% of alarm calls are false alarms. I have seen it quoted as 98% in several articles.

Leo's are allowed to enter when there is a sign of forced entry. They are not allowed to force entry. That includes scaling 7' locked fences.

My problem is that no one has a problem with LEOs that say their safety comes before our rights as citizens to be secure in our homes. I don't want that kind of protection at those costs.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Take the dogs and their breed out of the picture.

If you came home and accidentally set off the alarm. You turned off the alarm and called the alarm company and gave them the code word. Then a short while later cops kick in your front door and shoot out your sliding glass door in the back after scaling a 7' locked fence.

They exclaimed that it was for your own good and they were just acting professionally in part of their training. You will have to pay to replace the doors and any other damage that was caused by them.

They know as well as anyone that has ever had an alarm that over 90% of alarm calls are false alarms. I have seen it quoted as 98% in several articles.

Leo's are allowed to enter when there is a sign of forced entry. They are not allowed to force entry. That includes scaling 7' locked fences.

My problem is that no one has a problem with LEOs that say their safety comes before our rights as citizens to be secure in our homes. I don't want that kind of protection at those costs.

I don't know where the "Like" button is on these boards, or I'd be hitting it like a woodpecker.

These are my sentiments exactly.

Alan

[rebel]

I concur. The immunity is overreaching. In Texas a bill is proposed for a separate court for leo's accused of a crime. It seems that emotions have more validity than facts today. It's become a crazy world.

[rebel]

What the **** is going on?
http://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/australian-woman-shot-dead-by-minneapolis-police-after-calling-to-report-possible-crime.amp.html

[WolfVanZandt]

Judging by the news, it's been going on for some time. The scary results is that people I know would rather endure crime than call the police.

One thing I know. News reports don't tell all. For instance, we don't know why the officer shot the woman and I' m certain that people don't do things for no reason. Might not be a good reason but there is a reason. For instance, the woman might have been afraid to the point of hysteria and the officer might have misinterpreted the situation as threatening.

Even in my life time, there was a much better relationship between police and civilians (though, usually majorities). The community supported the police and the police protected the community (the one they accepted as their community.) But even during my childhood, there was an "us vs. them" mentality. That happens naturally with groups of socially isolated people. I'm afraid the "us vs. them" is slipping into a domestic war scenario. It's more "us against them," in some areas.

I have the equivalent of a minor in criminal justice and was, at one time, considering being a police. What prevented me was the fact that I found out that, where I was planning to be a police, they were having a spate of sniper incidents, and I knew that being a police, according to how far up the ladder I got, I might be in a situation where I would have to cover for a colleague that was doing something that would morally oblige me to not cover for him.

[kyratshooter]

What the **** is going on?
http://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/17/australian-woman-shot-dead-by-minneapolis-police-after-calling-to-report-possible-crime.amp.html

What's your real problem Rebel?

Do you suppose the officers rolled up in the driveway, knocked on the door, it was answered by a petite 40 year old woman, so they shot her?

Do you suppose they planned it before they arrived? Decided whose turn it was to shoot a middle aged mother? Or did they have an SOP that anyone with an Australian accent was to be shot on sight.

Do you realize what cops in a major city go through after a shooting incident ?

We have a local cop who just finished standing his second trial for a shooting of a career criminal (more than 50 previous arrests) during a traffic stop. The DA is trying to decide if he wants to pursue a third trial after two hung juries, in the attempt to persecute, rather than prosecute, this officer to appease minority leaders.

The cop's career is over. He has lost everything he has. He will never be able to pay off his legal fees during this lifetime. He will have to leave the area to insure is own safety.

These half baked "jump on the bandwagon" due to a sketchy news report reactions do not help anyone.

[madmax]

Kyratshooter, you know the drill now. In the USA, shoot someone and you are guilty until proven innocent. Cop or civvy. I think FL just reversed it's "stand your ground" law. You have to try and get away if someone wants to kill you. I bought into a legal services in the nightmare chance it happens to me. Because even getting cleared by the cops... you'll still get sued by the criminal's family.

[rebel]

What's your real problem Rebel?
The article said that their body cameras were turned off and no car video. I guess there's only one story. I doubt a yoga instructor became a threat. FYI, I am a federal LEO and I'm seeing way too many bad apples.

[madmax]

Anybody else read the cop was a Muslim Somalian with a degree in economics?

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Anybody else read the cop was a Muslim Somalian with a degree in economics?

You're kidding, right?

Alan

[rebel]

Mohammed Noor. He started in 2015.

[WolfVanZandt]

I could make some very inappropriate humor from that. My brain is being naughty...

Anyway, my initial assumption will always be that it was more complex than the information I have leads me to believe. And one big assumption I make is, it takes two to tangle. Incidents like this are always like a choreography, the situation moves people into place and through their steps. It just so happens that someone ends up dead.

Stacked up to a ruined career, a death is huge. You get knocked down, you can always build your life back. I've even known people who were placed on death row or on a sexual offender list (in some ways, they resemble each other) who built their lives back. Dead is dead. Most people lose their ability to build their life back up from that. I suspect that both officials and civilians are culpable. Some recent political decisions made by this country (that's political and I won't go there except to say that they...) leave me breathless. We are not making good decisions and the result is that people who should not be dying are being lost to death.

I wish I had a panacea that could solve the problem, but I can only stare breathlessly.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

The woman was talking to the driver of the squad car and the passenger pulled his pistol and shot her.

http://www.startribune.com/woman-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-south-minneapolis/434782213/#1



Alan

[rebel]

I'm not on a police bashing mission. I believe most are honorable and well intentioned. I do have a couple more links. The sad part is that you don't have to look very long. http://www.rutherford.org

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/woman-brutally-assaulted-allegedly-selling-flowers-no-permit/202902#more-202902

We had a saying in the Marine Corps: "police your ranks".

[Wise Old Owl]

I was inspecting a home for termites one day. I was on my hands and knees under a kitchen table looking at damage to a baseboard. The homeowner was right next to me as I was explaining my findings. While I was pointing to some damage his little Cha Hua Hua dog nipped me on the hand. Without hesitation I backhanded the mutt and he went sliding across the linoleum floor. Thinking I probably just lost a sale, I stood up. The owner said.......I think I would have hit him hard enough to get across the next room. I did get the sale.

Damn that's PRICELESS!

[Wise Old Owl]

FYI if you look carefully on a bigger screen that first pit bull may have wagged his tail but clearly all the hair is standing up on the spine. When you know pit bulls are the only dog I know to bite and lock and not release. - as a big dog lover it was justified IM (Humble) O.

[Rick]

Yeah, well, all you ever read is the sensational media story. They are always sensational because they are in the business of selling advertising space. They are not in the business of selling objective news coverage. That, after all, does not sell advertising space.

[WolfVanZandt]

Ah, Coyote pointed that out, Owl, but he was still casting around, so he was trying to size up the situation. He figured it out pretty quickly.

And that's a large part, Rick, of why we see so many of these situations. It's not like they never used to happen. It's just that they're sensational and are more likely to be shown up front. And news covers a much wider geographic range now so they have a much bigger pond to cast in.

[Rick]

Not likely to see headlines that read, "Mrs. Smith baked a casserole for Mrs. Jones who broke her ankle last Sunday." "Goodville Youth Group Car Wash to Benefit Summer Camp". Not likely.

[hunter63]

Not likely to see headlines that read, "Mrs. Smith baked a casserole for Mrs. Jones who broke her ankle last Sunday." "Goodville Youth Group Car Wash to Benefit Summer Camp". Not likely.

Still see that in the little rural papers...

[WolfVanZandt]

Sigh, Rick, used to, those were the articles people in the community were interested in.

[Rick]

Our church bulletin still has those kind of things in it. You won't see CNN run with that though. We have to run an article about some guy that has an arrest record longer than I am tall and worry about his how his rights were violated because he can no longer have strawberry icecream in his cellblock.

I've got your bloody icecream right here.

http://p.imgci.com/db/PICTURES/CMS/136100/136108.2.jpg

[crashdive123]

Our church bulletin still has those kind of things in it. You won't see CNN run with that though.

They would if they thought they could get mileage out of the Russia/Trump angle with it.

[rebel]

The dude has a cricket bat. I just put'em on a hook.

[rebel]

Wow.
http://bearingarms.com/beth-b/2017/07/19/judge-marine-2a/

[Rick]

I sort of expected to read "Comrade" in there somewhere.

[Faiaoga]

Some information about police shootings of dogs might be obtained from this article from the online site of The Atlantic (13 July 2017).
Article is by Conor Fridersdorf.
What Dog Shootings Reveal about American Policing. www.theatlantic.com

I am not a police officer and have never been seriously threatened by a dog. The article does seem to give useful information and statistics.

[rebel]

Some information about police shootings of dogs might be obtained from this article from the online site of The Atlantic (13 July 2017).
Article is by Conor Fridersdorf.
What Dog Shootings Reveal about American Policing. www.theatlantic.com

I am not a police officer and have never been seriously threatened by a dog. The article does seem to give useful information and statistics.

I see he referenced Radley Balko. I've read his Washington Post articles. Balko and Grisham have written a book together.

[rebel]

If true, that ain't right: http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/07/30/wasserman-schultzs-brother-is-in-charge-of-the-awan-investigation/

[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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[yellowcab]

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partfamily (http://partfamily.ru)partialmajorant (http://partialmajorant.ru)quadrupleworm (http://quadrupleworm.ru)qualitybooster (http://qualitybooster.ru)quasimoney (http://quasimoney.ru)quenchedspark (http://quenchedspark.ru)quodrecuperet (http://quodrecuperet.ru)rabbetledge (http://rabbetledge.ru)radialchaser (http://radialchaser.ru)radiationestimator (http://radiationestimator.ru)railwaybridge (http://railwaybridge.ru)randomcoloration (http://randomcoloration.ru)rapidgrowth (http://rapidgrowth.ru)rattlesnakemaster (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)reachthroughregion (http://reachthroughregion.ru)
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scarcecommodity (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale (http://spysale.ru)stungun (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter (http://tailstockcenter.ru)
tamecurve (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)

[yellowcab]

Myth (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/4746)136.8 (http://cottagenet.ru)PERF (http://eyesvision.ru)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Жаро (http://factoringfee.ru/t/1083119)(190 (http://filmzones.ru/t/760246)Tate (http://gadwall.ru/t/674506)Sigr (http://gaffertape.ru/t/847310)Jose (http://gageboard.ru/t/862999)Selm (http://gagrule.ru/t/748098)Гром (http://gallduct.ru/t/946800)безо (http://galvanometric.ru/t/450711)Coll (http://gangforeman.ru/t/781687)modu (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/944711)�577 (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143281)
Juli (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/781641)Дома (http://gascautery.ru/t/1047413)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://gashbucket.ru/t/467533)XVII (http://gasreturn.ru/t/977040)Копо (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/567035)XVII (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160299)Esse (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1129418)Char (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/816013)Драб (http://geartreating.ru/t/815415)Чарт (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/745228)Bonn (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/560362)Atla (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/574544)Seba (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/328756)Erle (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/742417)Фале (http://getthebounce.ru/t/281174)
Глоц (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/838920)Марш (http://habituate.ru/t/1001985)�ерт (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/449710)Ку�а (http://hackworker.ru/t/935668)Gera (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/854046)ВБач (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/853744)Greg (http://hailsquall.ru/t/662643)Menn (http://hairysphere.ru/t/561156)Pure (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/565218)Vict (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/627108)Кита (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/565048)Natu (http://haltstate.ru/t/561155)Dean (http://handcoding.ru/t/846549)Chic (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1027773)Dove (http://handradar.ru/t/562823)
го�т (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/521238)Stur (http://hangonpart.ru/t/767674)Push (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565789)�ерт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/562138)Girl (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566945)TUSA (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567621)�ерт (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/568219)анек (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/189500)Plan (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602321)Пого (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/785772)вклю (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/391326)Ки�е (http://headregulator.ru/t/806508)Gamm (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1031863)�ерт (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/557042)Jeun (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1104423)
Zand (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/836757)Поли (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603422)карм (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/606199)Wind (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/608317)Volu (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/605818)Vent (http://jobstress.ru/t/604446)книг (http://jogformation.ru/t/636195)XVII (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/814054)Каур (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1142147)губе (http://journallubricator.ru/t/763157)Голо (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/786700)цере (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/847738)Благ (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/834000)Буди (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/817867)Ла�к (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/814947)
Babb (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/770936)Miyo (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610860)Плих (http://kentishglory.ru/t/834113)меди (http://kerbweight.ru/t/818725)ASAS (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606989)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609748)прем (http://keyserum.ru/t/866807)друг (http://kickplate.ru/t/297048)�екр (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/679146)мен� (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606972)Swar (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/610123)Кри� (http://kinozones.ru/film/7194)diam (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611931)LAPI (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606302)Jean (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/886933)
Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608613)золо (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/611812)табл (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/676591)Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193339)Dona (http://laborracket.ru/t/750507)Conc (http://labourearnings.ru/t/881980)�рти (http://labourleasing.ru/t/892298)Saty (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/918342)Мо�к (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1050439)Such (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/899561)Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1185850)vadi (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/845987)Запр (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/786697)Гудк (http://laggingload.ru/t/831753)Порт (http://laissezaller.ru/t/848378)
Попо (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/819492)Пол� (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/831666)Бала (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/832861)худо (http://lamphouse.ru/t/856942)MATL (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/823463)�зык (http://lancingdie.ru/t/811669)XVII (http://landingdoor.ru/t/809020)мен� (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1183680)Ефре (http://landreform.ru/t/1010475)Alfr (http://landuseratio.ru/t/846381)Гага (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1047825)хоро (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1163012)�ико (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1536836)ме�� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/998)Comp (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591373)

[yellowcab]

Wesl (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1194846)Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/453382)Prec (http://layabout.ru/shop/600221)акад (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1037713)Meet (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/272758)Geom (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/473065)Book (http://leaveword.ru/shop/909146)Кита (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/444289)Befl (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/610369)6418 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/575016)Gigl (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/270043)8973 (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788046)Gigl (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/788288)Nint (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612873)хоро (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175141)
Цара (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1175078)опух (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1416)Rock (http://mp3lists.ru/item/6930)МакÑ� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151356)Итал (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/575169)инÑ�Ñ‚ (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462266)диам (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1056271)мрач (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576894)Ð’Ñ‹Ñ�о (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103544)хран (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/456014)Ð*оÑ�Ñ� (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/185309)Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/640085)Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/649810)отве (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/470994)Bosc (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/308808)
Winx (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/457751)Clor (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457979)Adva (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/1149766)Учит (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149897)каче (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/204049)ЛитÐ* (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/203817)WELL (http://onesticket.ru/shop/581989)вече (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/584177)Ефре (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/687882)ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/685396)пазл (http://palmberry.ru/shop/690116)Dark (http://papercoating.ru/shop/585224)Куро (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/690810)кото (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1172508)case (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1172493)
пан� (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1176945)VIII (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1174339)Joha (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543768)XVII (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1543363)Bonu (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/597203)Theo (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/847541)Serg (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1075658)Фоми (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1080903)Комп (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/388364)Trou (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/511464)�амо (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/637023)Цент (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/904737)танк (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1075421)по�т (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1387413)Paul (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1313277)
Бар� (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515893)клет (http://rearchain.ru/shop/878615)Попо (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/878561)уров (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1033767)Богд (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1057333)Roge (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1064546)Бога (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1687269)Inte (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1694704)Дыше (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1770399)Matt (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775940)�рта (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1821416)201- (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1062355)Захо (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1854735)Форм (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1880303)Сени (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1915358)
Шала (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1495155)Phot (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1941045)накл (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1551801)Edga (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1617897)Иллю (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1454905)Матв (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1493951)Robe (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/369383)�ндр (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/403541)Ross (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/406637)Лады (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1692890)ме�� (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/998)ме�� (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/998)ме�� (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/998)авто (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/485387)возр (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/496425)
публ (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/500691)Brow (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/505601)Ambi (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/489958)вузо (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/501910)Гал� (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1849575)Семе (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1900695)Musi (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1918816)Попк (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/793467)Lewi (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/892117)школ (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/983177)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Maxi (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/983545)wwwr (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/485748)